🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Erron Harris, one of the West Virginia bombers is leaving the team. He is from Indianapolis and says he wants to be closer to home. A 42% three bomber this year averaging 18 points a game sounds nice. Is Lawrence closer to home for him? Probably not, but I wouldn't mind seeing him in a Jayhawk Uni.

Yahoo had a little 'story' about Selden and Wiggins being asked about Stanfords Chasson Randle at a Saturday press conference. Wigs and Wayne giggled and didn't say much, pretty much acting like they'd never heard of him. Stanford noticed and made them pay a bit I'd suppose. Randle had 6 steals, which against our team is only average output :)

I've looked around and haven't been able to find much on next years schedule. We might as well start thinking about next year. Not too much info available that I could find. I'm all for tough scheduling, simply because the games are more interesting to watch than a 40 point blowout. I said it several times here that a tough schedule doesn't pay off too much if you don't win the tough games and we lost quite a few of them. I don't think we would have had a real satisfying ending to the season even if our schedule was easier either. This team was too young and the loss of Joel was devastating. 4-3 in games he didn't play is proof of that.

I am optimistic for next year, and will be giddy, night before Christmas like a 5 year old type giddy, if Joel stays. I'm excited for seeing the development of Wayne, I assume he'll stay, Connor, Perry and the others. Alexander I'm not sold on yet. Put up amazing numbers in Chicago, but some maturity questions give me a bit of apprehension.

I don't follow our recruiting enough to know if we have our eyes on other kids, but generally, freshmen players just don't excite me too much, especially after this year.

Will there be some increasing pressure on Bill Self if we have an early exit again? I can see some unrest at times, even on these pages. I know it's mostly silly to diss on a man who won a ring, came close another time and who wins a lot of games.

@wissoxfan83 our kids thought they said Jason randle and they didn't know who he was. KU kids hadn't got the scouting report yet. They were not disrespecting the kid!

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We really could've used him this last season. He's very physical. I LOVE his attitude and fire on the court.

Oubre is a bit obscure at this point.

@truehawk93 saw the 4 overtime win for his team. Looking forward to seeing the new Jhawks. Trying to be positive, but maybe turner and cliff will be stronger than Embiid w/shaky back issues??? Of course, IF we get turner. Just wish Embiid decides and we can move on.

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No seriously, Oubre is pretty physical and I like these players that can play physical. This team is too soft. These two guys are going to bring it.

@Crimsonorblue22

I agree. Embiid needs to make a decision very soon if KU is to have a shot at landing Myles Turner. I will guess that Turner is waiting on Embiid's decision but probably will not wait for too long.

@JayHawkFanToo Turner took an official visit to UT. I think Turner is KU's to lose. Embiid better not wait for Turner to commit against KU and then pull a kind of twin to enter the NBA. Remember when we lost both twins? Self was only expecting to lose McMorris, not MkMorris. They both declared and it left us in a lurch. I don't think Turner will announce untill Embiid makes his announcement.

I think Turner's options in this order are:

KU

UT

SMU - he said SMU is a dark horse

UK

TAM- too, not sure except Texas

OSU - cowboys

zona is in here too

OSU

I think he wants KU, but would like to stay in Texas if possible.

Will there be some increasing pressure on Bill Self if we have an early exit again?

I can't imagine there being pressure on Bill from the administration. On top of everything else (the '08 championship, the '12 runner-up, 10 straight conference titles, ridiculous overall winning percentage, recruiting success, charity work, etc.), a probably seldom thought of reason as to why there wouldn't be any pressure on him is that I can't think of anybody else better right now that would be available. Say Bill leaves - either retires, moves to the NBA, or is forced out - who would we be looking at? The only coaches who can match his success - Donovan, Izzo, Coach K, etc. - most likely wouldn't make a lateral move like that, uproot themselves from the good thing they got going. So you're left with coaches who are not as established & successful, in which case it is a gamble. Manning? He'd be the sentimental favorite, but he hasn't shown enough at the D1 coaching level to guarantee we'd maintain the level of success now. Tad Boyle & Mark Turgeon would be other candidates from inside the KU family, but they've been D1 coaches for awhile, and have they really shown the chops to cut it at a place like KU? So maybe we do like we did with Self, and that's look to perhaps the second tier of coaches from successful, non-blue blood schools. Jay Wright maybe? Sean Miller? I was pretty high on Buzz Williams who just took the Virginia Tech job, although he had a disappointing final season at Marquette. What about up & comers? Shaka Smart or (gasp) Gregg Marshall?

Point is, anybody else is a crap shoot.

Now what I could see in terms of "pressure" should we have another early exit is the AD sitting down with Self and asking him what he needs to be more successful, and perhaps "recommend" that he make some changes in his coaching staff to better complement Self in some areas in which he is perhaps not as much an expert.

@icthawkfan316-Unlikely, Self pretty much writes his own ticket. Who, in their right mind in a no football school, would have balls enough to ask Bill for a sit down?
Tony Soprano...or uncle Junior?

@truehawk93

I agree that Turner would come to KU if Embiid leaves;. However, he will wait only so long; he needs to start planning and the start of Summer school is only a couple of months away. Most players use Summer school to get a jump start and I ma sure Turner wants to do it as well.

@globaljaybird Don't look now, but Stillwater is getting really impatient and Uncle Boon just may have the coconuts to sit down with Bill and write a check. But many think OSU is way off of Self's radar right now. Self has too much invested in this team to even think of leaving due to "pressure." I think Self loves a challenge and he definitely has a challenge as the head coach of KU.

I wonder if the Booths could match the Pickens' dollar for dollar? Some don't think Pickens cares for bball as he does football.

@icthawkfan316

My leading candidate to replace Bil Self when he retires, Brad Stevens, is now coaching for the Boston Celtics. Maybe, like Pitino, he will get tired of dealing with prima-donas that make a lot more money than he does and come back to coach college BBall.

At this point, I cannot think of a single coach that I would take over Bill Self; this includes posters in this forum that think they can do a better job than Coach Self :)

@globaljaybird Well every year at the end of the year Bill & the AD have a sit down. Self has said so. I 100% agree that Self "writes his own ticket", that he IS KU athletics, but he still has a boss. I'm not saying it would be confrontational, but I wouldn't doubt them putting it out there like that.

@icthawkfan316 Sure they have a sit down. It all rolls down hill. AD wants a report. Self wants his team to decide what they want to do. The team has to make a decision as to what they want based on what the AD and Self discusses. It's all normal and nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing to alarm anyone over. Let's all sit and enjoy the post season. We have a lot to anticipate.

@JayHawkFanToo I like Stevens too. He'd be up there on my list if available, I just don't think he will be, at least for a few more years. I think Pitino returned to college coaching because he had little success in the NBA, not because he tired of the NBA dynamics.

I agree too that there isn't any coach I'd take over Self. It was just a hypothetical that gets thrown out there every so often. Usually it's the "what if Self retires tomorrow..." type question, but since it was asked if there might be any pressure should we have another early exit, I thought it would be a good chance to illustrate just how lucky we are to have Bill :)

It's all speculation but there's some writing on the wall for a few players. I think AW3's sit down with Self will be really up front and honest. I think Tharpe is going to get an ultimatum the pg is once again up for hire and right now Tharpe's not a huge candidate going into his senior season. I think CF may have the pg. I think the Stanford game brought out the real CF. Tharpe is not a leader on the court.

LOL Self isn't going anywhere folks.

@truehawk93 I'm not attempting to alarm anyone. Follow the original post. It was asked if Self would be getting any pressure should the team make another early round exit. I said I can't fathom any real pressure, but I could see the administration sitting down and asking what he needs to succeed and maybe making some recommendations. Then another poster asks who "would have balls enough to ask Bill for a sit down?" My response was that they already have one. Of course it is all normal and nothing out of the ordinary. That's why I said they have one every year.

@truehawk93

The hat thing didn't reveal something about the kid? A basketball mad state whose state university has fallen quite a bit and he disses them?

After they got upset in the regional playoffs he laid on the court and pouted, wouldn't get up. I wasn't impressed when I read that.

I hope I'm wrong, and look at my bracket to see how much I know about hoops!, but he's just rubbed me the wrong way so far.

@wissoxfan83 I found this on Kusports.com:
The schedule: In 2014-15, KU will play Kentucky in the Champions Classic in Indianapolis; Georgetown in Verizon Center, the home of the Washington Wizards; and Temple in Wells Fargo Center, home of the Philadelphia 76ers. KU will meet UNLV in Allen Fieldhouse and Utah in KC’s Sprint Center. KU also will play a team from the SEC in Allen in the Big 12/SEC Challenge. The opponent likely will be Florida.

The Jayhawks also will play in the Old Spice Classic with Georgia Tech, Marquette, Michigan State, Rhode Island, Rider, Santa Clara and Tennessee.

As far as future tourneys, KU will likely play in Maui in 2015 and the CBE Classic in Kansas City in 2016. No tourney yet is on tap for 2016-17, with the Battle 4 Atlantis a possibility.

@truehawk93

I like Kelly Oubre, but my concern is that much of his success from a shooting standpoint is on drive and kick plays. That will put pressure on either Tharpe, Mason or Frankamp to master a drive and kick game. I think he will be great, but for him to reach his full potential will require our PG contingent to step forward.

As for Alexander, he is a BEAST. He is a true power post player somewhat like TRob, but probably further along than TRob was as a freshman. A very respected coach once said at a clinic I was at that big men need to finish with violence and authority. There is no way to violently finish a finger roll. But that's what I like about Cliff Alexander. He is not trying to finger roll. He is not trying to make layups. He is trying to break backboards, and anything else that happens to get in his path along the way.

I love the highlight you embedded, because all it shows is dunk after dunk after dunk, with a handful of jumpers and post moves mixed in, and the occasional thunderous block to punctuate the video. More than anything KU needs a bit of an edge. They need a little toughness, something we've lacked the last few years without guys like Darnell, Sherron, Mario, TRob and Tyshawn. More than his skill set, that's what Alexander brings, and that's why I am ecstatic to have him in Lawrence next year.

KU wasn't scary this year. SDSU and K-State turned the games against us into street fights, and we lost both. I bet a team with Cliff Alexander on it wouldn't lose a street fight. That's not the kind of guy you get into a street fight with.

@icthawkfan316 I hear you :)

@justanotherfan We were too soft.

@truehawk93 I too am super excited about Alexander & Oubre (and Turner should Embiid leave and we land him)

@icthawkfan316 nobody can replace Self, but if he left I like Tony Bennett. I've watched a few games, but love the way they play D

@KUSTEVE oh no, we didn't schedule WSU? Looks like a terrific schedule, can't wait!

@Crimsonorblue22

My guess, as a Badger fan too, is he's waiting out Bo Ryan, who's in his upper 60's and will go back to his home state. I sometimes wonder if us KU fans would enjoy having a team that kills on defense, but doesn't have a high flying offense. That's been Bennett's trademark.

@Crimsonorblue22 LOL. WSU needs to save their strength for the likes of Indiana St.

@icthawkfan316 Watch their vids. Oubre especially can take a hit and finish. This is what hurt Wigs from time to time. He couldn't take too much contact and finish. He missed several layups because of contact or sometimes no contact. Wiggins was pampered in high school. All these kids have to make an adjustment to D1, especially B12 style of play. I think that's what they learn. You read the quotes from Wigs and Embiid, and they constantly commented on how physical the game was at the college level. The B12 was especially physical this year.

@truehawk93 wouldn't it be fun to see a defensive hilite film! I've always heard Self says he can coach them up on D. I know he proved that w/wiggins and Selden , but the rest??? The rule changes were tough w/this team, I think. Would love to hear what coach thinks about that.

The thing too in discussing potential replacements is not that we want or expect Self to go anywhere, but a "plan for the worst" mentality. The administration no doubt keeps a list for such an occasion. No harm in guessing as to whom we think might be on that list, or who we would want.

@Crimsonorblue22 They were learning D late. I'd say as late as the B12 tourney. They were just not very intensive on D. The most intensity they showed was the press against Stanford. That press was outstanding. I was really impressed. Heck, I think it even impressed Self. I think Self was surprised they actually got the ball. They looked much like the '08 team.

@truehawk93 so maybe oubre will find that same thing out?

@Crimsonorblue22 Fraid so. But he doesn't shy away from contact. I was a little shocked at Selden shying away from contact when he went away from the Stanford defender and was blocked, instead of going into him. Selden is big and strong. He needs to play to his body like Smart did so many times.

As much as Smart goofed this year, I still think he should've been a Jayhawk. He was our missing piece of the puzzle folks.

Dang it...everytime I watched Smart, I saw him in a KU uni. It hurt too. He was meant to be KU's next pg. What we would've done with him last year and maybe this year is scary. Oh well...moving a long...dang it...I can't...

@Crimsonorblue22

I agree. The change in the contact rules affected teams like KU that rely on defensive pressure a lot more than it did teams that emphasize offense.

I believe over the break, Coach Self will update his defense strategy to cope with the new rules and we will see a much improved defensive team next season.

@Crimsonorblue22 @truehawk93 Word is that Oubre is a plus defender as well. He'll be a step back from Wiggins, at least initially, but should be quite a bit better than most freshman are out of the box.

@JayHawkFanToo I think all coaches will address the rule change. I think you'll see the better coaches and teams find a way to beat the rule.

As far as Selfs job goes, everywhere Self goes, you see Zenger too! Can't say exactly what I'd like too, but you get the picture.

@Crimsonorblue22 LOL...It will change as Zenger gains confidence and learns. Self has been here long enough to learn things Zenger has to learn. But Zenger is a truehawk too. He was born, reared, and educated in Kansas (minus ksu)...anywho...he'll be fine. I like Zenger. He's not Lou Perkins.

@icthawkfan316 Only sensible recommendation Bill could get from SZ is to advise all his friends to sign up for TWC in case they can't get to a game in person. Maybe there is a skim scam in that deal, but most fans think it required a donut brain to take it. I know, I know there's gold in them thar hills for the U with that deal, but there's a lot of pissed off fans who now miss 6-8 games per year & have little regard for any real "sports knowledge" he could possibly suggest to Self. Some find that possibility downright humorous. Just saying...

@globaljaybird I was a lucky one to get all the games, 'cept that weird one over turkey day, but my family got it, so lucky again. My folks, other family members called and wrote letters about that mess. I felt so guilty that I could get them! I'm not a Zenger fan. Jmo

@Crimsonorblue22 Respectfully disagree.

He's a helluva singer, but he's in his 80's and doesn't know any more about basketball than I do. (But I know enough that we should have played Frankamp more this year)

Yes, I'm kidding.

@justanotherfan I thought we looked intimidated against Stanford, which is why we were 9 for 22 at the rim. Which is why we lost the game. I don't think Cliffie would have the same problem.

@KUSTEVE question, why would we be intimidated w/practicing against some really good big guys? Does Perry go against Tarik every day? Just really wish we could get meaner, tougher!

@justanotherfan I'm pumped to see Alexander in Lawrence. Oubre too, although he seems like less of a known quality.

What I keep asking myself is who is going to feed these guys the ball? Please don't say Tharpe, I don't think my nervous system can take another season of watching him.

I'd be thrilled if Self has a JUCO pg or transfer stud in the pipeline that no one knows about...

http://kansas.247sports.com/Article/Wayne-Selden-Announces-He-Will-Return-184807 ↗

@wrwlumpy-Kool !! I think slayr should give him the first pre-season floor burn award already !!

But that clouds the sky for Greene, White, & Oubre. Damn, I don't want to loose Brannen. Tharpe, backup, but not Greene.

@wrwlumpy

Great news. Selden has the potential to be a lottery pick, no question about it.

Well, if Self should go searching for a transfer or juco pt. guard, he's going to have to usher someone out the door. Unless, of course, Embiid leaves, and we go with the pt. guard hunt over the prospect of fetching Myles Turner. As has been suggested, it probably is in the program's best interest for JoJo to announce his decision within the next 10 days. Solid news, Selden's announcement. Personally, I view "pt. guard by committee" to be a shaky business. I could see us going in the direction of Frankamp 25 minutes, Mason 15. Tharpe subbing for Selden at the 2. Still too much congestion at the 3, esp. if Ellis gets some time at that position. Greene, Oubre, AW3 and maybe a touch of Perry? Something probably needs to give....

Great news about Selden. He should be able to improve his draft status by coming back.
I think he is a key for us to be better next year. Even if Emiid leaves.. which I expect. We need Wayne's toughness and I think he will turn into a leader and more of a consistent scorer. We will have way more experience now and can work the 2 (or 3) talented freshmen in.

@Hawk8086 Yes...wonderful news. Embiid needs to speak with Luc Mbah Mute(sp)...I predicted Selden would be back. I am predicting that Embiid is back too. This teams is going to be special without Wiggins. Nothing but all due respect for Wiggins, but I really think he was a bit of a distraction, albatross, and ironically achilles heel. Don't get me wrong, he was great and everything many thought, but kind of a cog in the team's wheel. I think we'll see an even better chemistry with him gone. Wiggins will always be loved and appreciated, but going to the NBA is the best for him right now, not KU.

The longer Embiid waits, the less chance he is coming back. I think if he comes back, he'll make the decision between now and the F4. Either way, KU will be in a great position with Turner or Embiid. I think we'd be strong with Embiid, but afraid his back is going to be an ongoing issue.

I would like to ponder the possibility of Selden working the pg. Also, what are the chances of a possible Lucas transfer? Could AW3 and Lucas both look to transfer? If Mickelson gets the backup 5, Lucas may decide to take his services to another program...maybe Tulsa or SMU? That would be interesting.

Selden

Oubre

Green

Ellis/Alexander/Traylor

Embiid/Turner/Mickelson

@ajvan I think if Self was going to grab a pg, it would've been Lyle. I don't think he wants a pg because he has the personnel, but not Tharpe. I see a possible AW3 and maybe Lucas transfer. That would give us two extra openings. Lucas may ride the rest of his time regardless of pt. He's already RS, so not sure what he'd do.

A juco is a possibility but bringing in a pg at this point is too risky. The chemistry may be too volatile. A D1 transfer would have to sit out a year too at any D1 program. So, that would be counter productive. The juco would have to be some kind of special too. I can't help to remember Appleton. He didn't work out too well. I think Self and Co need to start working on a 3-4 star pg recruit NOW to lead after Tharpe, Mason and CF graduate.

@truehawk93 I'm not sure Selden is a PG....I think we all debated this prior to the season starting.
I don't think Lucas transfers. I think that he has a future at KU and I think that Self thinks the same thing.
I hope I am right.

@Hawk8086 Yes we did beat this idea to pieces. But with a year under his belt, it's just a possibility. I actually think CF earned the pg spot after the Stanford game. I just question his ability to get in the lane and dish.

@truehawk93 Agree 100% on your PG comments. I think Self believes that Mason can be the guy down the road, if not before.
I am only guessing that the reason we stopped recruiting Lyle is that it became a little clearer that Selden was staying.

@Hawk8086 I love Mason. But he's just a little bit of Tharpe and a bit of CF. I wish Mason had CF's IQ and Tharpe's overall experience, he'd be dangerous. Mason tends to get a little overwhelmed, but he does have a better IQ than Tharpe.

I can't help to think something is going on with Tharpe. It's got to be something causing him to be so irradic and mental. Either he's having off court issues or Self had a talk that has gotten into his head. Either way, Tharpe seems to have lost his edge and ability to lead this team.

That pg is a special position. You don't just give the ball to anyone. They have to almost be like the head coach or have the coach's complete confidence. Donovan and Wilbekin have some kind of coach/pg relationship and it shows. That team is playing some kind of ball. But I like MSU at this point. Donovan and Izzo have got to be two of the best tourney coaches in D1 bball. Izzo and Harris are really on the same page too. I think our pg was Smart. Self and Smart would've been nasty.

@truehawk93 At the time we missed on Smart, I was disappointed. Now, I think I'd throw up in my mouth a little bit if I had to watch him flop around the court in a KU uniform.

@approxinfinity he wouldn't be allowed to at KU! We (Self) would have made his life a whole lot better!

@approxinfinity Totally agree...but that's just it. Self is not Ford. Smart would have been a different player. Ford is trash and he did Smart no favors. If Smart were in a KU uni, he would not have to flop. Self would've sit his candy azz on the bench to remind Smart who is/was the head coach. I blame Ford for most of Smart's stupid behavior. A good coach would've taught him and disciplined him.

You would be speaking differently if Smart were playing and KU won another NC.

@truehawk93 distraction, albatross, Achilles heel, but you think he's great? A cog in the teams wheel? Wonder what the rest of the team and coaches think? I would keep him in a minute!

@truehawk93 Sorry but Smart is garbage. Ford doing nothing only allowed Smart to reveal his true character. It would be one thing if this was Ford's M.O. - that he was notorious for having a team full of floppers. But it's not. It's something Smart consciously choose to engage in on his own. You can only point the finger at someone else so much, and even then it's a cop-out. Of course this is all to say nothing of Smart "leading" his team to two first round tournament exits. Not sure how you can prognosticate another national championship for KU with Smart on board when he couldn't get anything done at OSU.

On the other hand, I think giving Selden some minutes at the PG spot would be great. I doubt it will happen, but like you illustrated, it would be a way to get Selden, Oubre, & Greene all on the floor at the same time. Or even by sliding players down a position could open up some minutes for Perry at the 3 (something I'm not a big fan of, but people keep pushing it).

@Crimsonorblue22 I know it sounds crazy or passive aggressive. I loved Wiggins being at KU and he was great. He's a great asset to the program. But, the results were strange. Something didn't work right. We didn't click and Tharpe was only part of the problem. Wigs just didn't seem to have the alpha dog mentality and he just didn't quite perform up to his potential at times. I think the team fed off that possibiity. I think the team deferred to Wigs and when he was off, ie. Stanford, we didn't have anyone else to step up. When he was on, he was on, ie. West Virginia, and we still lost.

Don't get me wrong KU wasn't worse off having him, but better off for his being at KU. What if he hadn't been at KU? But, I just think they were a great group of guys that lke to play together. But they never reached their ceiling. They were close. I think it was the Wigs effect. It wasn't his fault, but the team isn't the same with him and they definitely won't be the same without him. Ultimately, they will be better as he goes pro. It will remove those issues I brought out because they looked a little lost when Wigs wasn't performing. They depended too much on him to carry the team. He just wasn't that kind of player. He was great, but not the type to put a team on his shoulders and win games. Maybe we just didn't have any other player that would pick up some slack when it was needed, ie. Ellis, Selden, or Tharpe. I don't know...

Those calling for Ellis to play the 3 need to think about this. Perry got scorched, burned, schooled, punk'd, ect. by every single hybrid 4 that can score from outside. Georges Niang. Jabari Parker. Jonathan Holmes. Now do you want Ellis stepping out and guarding the same guys that Wiggins was tasked with shutting down this past year?? I sure as hell don't. Honestly I didn't think Perry could guard most 4s this year, not just the guys I mentioned. In the games that featured a serviceable 4, that guy always seemed to be the leading scorer. Ellis needs to man up and learned not to be pushed around so easily. He needs to figure out how he can finish with contact and not pirouette when he goes up. He needs to work on his quickness if he wants to see the 3. He needs to work on rebounding the ball with force, securing the board, and grabbing it with TWO hands.

@Kip_McSmithers Ellis was a funny player. He's a great kid and a great ball player. He had an odd year. Again, Wigs may have played a little role in Ellis' performance. I just think some of these guys were a little confused of their role with Wigs. I think they all deferred to him and Wigs never quite grasped that idea.

Ellis is strange. He tended to disappear too, a bit like Tharpe at times. Ellis had a really inconsistent year. I expect his junior year to be better. I'm mixed with the 3,4 idea for Ellis. I think he could play the 3, but it's a risk. I don't think he's able at this point. Maybe Ellis could work a flop or two in his game plan like Niang for the quicker 3s and compensate for his "speed." Niang tended to flop when he was beat, and it worked too. Teams flopped against Wigs because they couldn't beat him. Wigs scouting report by coaches were for their teams to front him and draw charges if possible. Stanford flopped all day to stop Wigs. They didn't draw too many charges, but they did hold him to 4 pts with that zone. I don't know exactly how Alexander is going to play with Ellis. Traylor sure came on strong with Ellis.

I waited for Ellis to step up when WIgs was off. He just never quite stepped. Ellis isn't too quick and he's not very physical. He avoided contact and not too aggressive. We struggled when teams were physical, like Stanford. When teams bodied Ellis and contested his bunnies, he missed. We were so soft inside, save Black and Traylor.

@Crimsonorblue22 I can't find a better word than intimidated to explain going 9 for 22 at the rim. Normally, we would make 60% +. Perry looked over matched again, and had a poor game. The 2nd half, he would get the ball on the block, and he would simply kick it back out because he didn't even want to try to make a play. Their length messed with our minds, and changed our shots. Once Tarik was gone, so were we.

@ajvan I thought we saw our new point guard in the tournament. You know, the guy that immediately broke down the other team's defense, scorched the nets, and almost single handily brought the team back from disaster. The guy that no team could afford to leave open, not even for a second. I wasn't sold on Francamp until the tournament, but I'm sold. That's our point guard.

@wissoxfan83 Good post as usual Wissox.
I too am highly optimistic about next season. If Embiid stays, which I think he will, just a gut feeling, I will be elated! But, if he goes, we will be just fine. I don't know much about Alexander other than he is supposed to be a Beast in the post. I trust that Bill will curb any ahhh personality issues with Cliff just the way he did with the Twins and TT. Not worried about that at all.
Increased pressure on Coach to make a deep tourney run next season? Absolutely. I also kind of agree with Drgn and HEM when they mentioned this loss was more on him than the players. He just does not like to make in game adjustments to give who is on the floor the best chance to win, or to switch line ups to do the same. Case and point Naadir as a Junior was out played by Conner Frankamp a Freshmen! Conner should have played more than 25 min and Coach should have adjusted better to the defenses that Stanford threw at them. But, one thing I disagree with them on is that had Embiid been healthy and been able to play, we would have won anyways without in game adjustments. We would have won. I cant hate or bash on Coach too much because like you said, he has a ring, he has a runner up and he has 10 straight conference champs and 7-8 other tourney titles. The guy wins a lot. He just needs to win another title for KU, asap. Personally I think that if Embiid comes back, the title is ours for the taking.
ps. ive no idea if Harris comes to KU or not, I just heard he was leaving.

SELF: Not going anywhere. No one, & I mean nobody will add more pressure to Bill Self than what his own competetiveness will add from within himself. He lived the defensive woes that were this odd collection of inconsistent frosh + inconsistent returning players (Ellis/Tharpe). And the word he hates above all else, used to describe his own team: "SOFT!" (simply has got to change. This wasnt a true Bill Self product, as it was too inexperienced). Self wont ever go to OklaState. OSU will be in shambles next year. Ford in hot seat after next season's pending disaster (TubbyTechies will be better, and TCU will likely be better, as they return several injured starters).

POINT GUARD: Open competition. So far Mason brings more all-around than Frankamp or Tharpe. Mason is faster, fearless, needed experience in decision-making (which he got), and is 190lbs. Next year he could be like Sherron was. His 3 stroke is already better. Tharpe=5'11 combo guard. Mason=5'11 combo guard. Frankamp=6ft combo guard. Not to mention Mason has the confident swagger that Tharpe somehow "lost" (he had it last year), and Frankamp is working to try to show at the D1 level (maybe we saw a glimpse against Stanford?).

Since I am VERY partial to 6'1 or taller combo guards (think RussRob, Tyshawn, EJ), I wouldnt have minded seeing Self try Selden at PG...he could be our version of Smart and 6'4 Kane?

I remain 'shocked' that a Div1 player (Tharpe) doesnt have defensive instincts and D1-quickness to be able to be coached to play effective D. This is a very, VERY basic observation from me just watching Tharpe's technique, as I have played combo guard personally as a 6ft tall, 175lb guy for 20+yrs. I love playing D. D travels. But you cannot have any back or knee/ankle/foot issues to be able to do what is required for true Self-level D. I love watching Bill Self's teams because, before this year, they played very respectable top10-type D. And, eventhough I am 6ft--> I think D1 guys need to be bigger, stronger, faster. Again, I'll use Self's own combo-examples of RussRob, Chalmers, Sherron(strong as a bull, game-changing pace), Tyshawn(unguardable). Regardless of people's memories of Tyshawn or Elijah...please remember that the combination of those 2 combo-guards (size, length, speed, hops, defense) took us all the way to the champ game in 2012. Even slower Brady from 2009-2011 was a better defender because of 2 chief reasons: his bought-in-to-D dedication, and his 6'4 LENGTH. There has GOT to be something in the equation if a guard is shorter...and sorry, pure offense doesnt suffice. Just showing up with offense is a Roy lesson: score 80+ points and still lose the game. Got to stop the other guy.

Bill Self will look for less TO's, running the O confidently, swagger, and SOLID defense. The most unfortunate thing for Tharpe is that in crunch time, he was on the bench next to Self, as our headless team went down in defeat. Who was supposed to get the ball to people and get the vaunted Wiggins more touches? The PG. Against EasternKY, Mason looked better than Tharpe. Hell, fresh out of the box against Duke in November, Mason was the best PG (15pts vs. Duke in Madison Square Garden). Look no farther for swagger-PG: Frank Mason.

I cant jump off the Frank Mason train, because he is pulling it faster and faster, like the bull he is...unsafe to jump off!

Undecided on Frankamp. Tharpe has had 4 3ptr games also. It aint about the offense (Wiggins scores 41 and team still loses at WVU). Learn the lesson about Bill Self teams: Defense. Its what wasnt in our wallet this year.

FRANKAMP:

Positives--> Finally showed his 3form coming off screens, shooting in-rhythm...in 1 game, for what its worth. All season, he'd be so wide open that he was seen "measuring up" his 3attempt, thus taking himself out of his natural shooting rhythm. Did show better on-ball D, compared to Tharpe, and picked up a few steals, in his limited mpg, which was notable.

Negatives--> Will not get any taller. Will be challenged defensively by taller, quicker, faster D1 guards (not so much as Tharpe blow-bys, but they'll shoot over Conner, I already saw that over and over). Will be challenged by short guards in the mold of Sherron, Mason, VanVleet, etc...who simply are built heftier. Is 165-170lbs. Can his frame gain meaningful weight? He is not built like Keiton Page or Phil Forte, nor ever will be.
(Keep in mind Frank Mason is 190lbs). Consider this example, late in the game vs Stanford: Frankamp got body bumped by some-D1-guard-playing-for-Stanford, fell flat on his face, and we turn it over for a quick 2pts by the opponent. That would not happen to Mason or 195lb RussRob. Consider Brady as an example: limited turnovers, 6'4 length to defend with (A-rated defender), 3 shooting. My fear is Conner gives up too much in height and defensive length, and offensive physicality (I am concerned he has confidence issues. He knows he isnt facing h.s.-level Wichita players anymore). Sometimes you know, as a player, when you are overmatched. Imagine Frankamp vs. 6'5 Smart or 6'4 Deandre Kane. I think TCU or TxTech starts a 6'3 guard.

Will Connor Frankamp be content being an off-bench backup for Wayne Selden? And why exactly does Bill Self, royalty program coach, have to mask player-defiencies that should be answered by recruiting? It seems to me that other teams have taken Self's own "big, tough, athletic, do-it-all 'combo guard'" concept and are starting to beat KU with it. Maybe we are seeing why Tharpe was ranked #91? If you want to talk sub-6ft guards, is it even fair to compare Frankamp (and Tharpe) to Sherron Collins, who played impactful mpg from Day 1, even on a team with Chalmers and Russell Robinson.

Let me put it another way: I am missing the toughness and length of Brady Morningstar and Tyrel Reed (and Tyshawn and EJ). I think Mason is the most Sherron-like sub6footer combo guard we have.

RECRUITING is the issue. Self was a combo guard himself. He has got to get back to his big-athletic-combo guard concept--> chiefly for defensive reasons. Fred Hoiberg is sold on it. Tubby Smith knows. Travis Ford knows. Once in a while you get an exception like Sherron, or a Fred VanVleet-type (I think Mason may be such...but in Year2)...but in this game, there is NO substitue for size, length, and athleticism. I dont know why we would knowingly go in on a guy who gives up too much in today's game. The days of Jacque Vaughn are over, and also dead. Plus that is Roy ball, no-D-unless-kid-arrived-with-it (Hinrich, Miles). Even ole Roy may have seen the light: 6'3 Marcus Paige is a shootin' scoring + distributive "combo" guard. But they still lost, because they couldnt stop the other team (no D). Didnt KSU "own" Tharpe with 6'3 Foster as their PG? You think he would have owned RussRob or Tyshawn or EJ? (no, no, and no). This is what Self's vaunted guard-play has fallen to. Getting bested/beasted in our own league, then handled/Randled by some lesser known combo from S-t-a-n-f-o-r-d.

SelfBall needs its proper pieces for it's "system" approach to work. Pieces with the right mentality, right athleticism, right length, right work-ethic. Hate being felled by poor execution of what we know is a proven, winning system. Get em on track, Coach...get your toughest, athletic 5 out there! If I was Deandre Kane or Marcus Smart (or Selden/Greene in ku practice) I'd go fade-away-J or dunk on Frankamp and Tharpe all day. Very simple law of basketball, exploit the weakness, be it lack of size or length or quickness.

@truehawk93 Your summation of Ellis is spot-on. He is a typical Roy Williams MickeyD type of bigman: 6'8, can score, but SOFT against physicality, and defensively...the 2 attributes Bill Self values the most. The problem is personality-traits are hard to change. Same issue with EJ (mentally passive unless he got ticked off). Successful Bill Self players will arrive with a swagger/confidence...an aggressive mentality you can see even as a freshman. Think of Thomas Robinson, Cole Aldrich in his own way, Darrell Arthur, Embiid has it, the Twins and Wiggins were coaxed to show it, Sherron, Mason, Tyshawn, Chalmers, RussRob, and to a certain extent Reed and Rush and McLemore, and for now Selden showed glimpses (the only man who showed up @TX in Austin, good defender, and tougher-than-Smart in AFH).

Half of this game is mental, but you also have to be able to cash the checks physically. Weakness in either area will get you exploited, as opposing coaches will instruct their players accordingly.

How about an all-swagger/toughness team:

Embiid, Alexander, Greene(&Oubre), Selden, Mason.

Got to shake things up. Got the depth to give 40-min of hell, the Bill Self way (not the "press" Nolan Richardson way).

Call the #91 Tharpe experiment a learning lesson in what can and cant be coached & taught.

@ralster I'm with you in that I prefer the guards with size, length, & athleticism, but didn't Louisville just win a NC starting not one but TWO guards that were an even 6' tall? I mean, if Pitino can make it work with two surely Self can figure out a way to mask 1 of them.

@ralster tough and athletic! Throw Mari in there too!

@icthawkfan316 That's a great point about Louisville, but Russ Smith is an absolute dynamo. Literally, he is almost performing at a Chalmers-like level for Louisville. His announcement that he would return for another year (last April) was absolutely huge for Louisville's chances this year, and look: they are in the Sweet16.

The other point that comes up, if we use NC Louisville as an example: They had 2 guards, both experienced, working together. I recall their games last season...they were literally as fast as frosh Sherron or Mason, but experienced and capable scorers. And look at us with "our" 3 small guards: we cant even make the sweet 16. So my point exactly is the comparison between our 'small' guards and the deficiencies ours show, compared to other small guards, even in KU's past history, like Sherron or Aaron Miles. I do hold out hope that Mason can develop by next year into another Sherron. He's got the tools, the build, the swag, and the coaching to do it.

But my final point comes full circle: Why mask? Why give up 4-6 inches? Why not recruit 6'1-6'4 combo guards by the twos and threes? Self's own history PROVES we need not just 1 (lone EJ example), but 2 or 3, so you have 2 ball-handlers + dangerous scorers on the floor at all times (again, the Michigan lesson, contrasted with the 2008 champs, who had 3 dangerous combo guards). Heck, even with just 2 (TT + EJ), we make it all the way to the '12Champ game, breaking the hearts of Purdue, UNC, OhioState along the way.

We are at the point, we KNOW our system is superior, if executed to its "usual" extent. We just need the right personnel. I think Selby leaving early killed us against '12 KY, while his foot injury helped limit our potential in 2011, as did Reed's foot injury also in 2011 (2 combo's at 80%). I think Royce Woolridge leaving hurt us. I think Appleton not working out hurt us. Its not that Self hasnt tried, but you have to go to battle with what you have, and there are NO guarantees that ANY kid will work out, as we see with Tharpe. Mason is showing more as a frosh than Frankamp, or Tharpe ever showed as a frosh, and "frankly", more than Tharpe shows as a junior. Each player's learning curve, and response to the big lights is different, and Mason has been good at both aspects.

Sorry to be a bit harsh, analytically, on Frankamp, so maybe the best statement on him is let's just see how he develops over the summer and how he plays next season.

@ralster

As usual, you make some good points.

My issue with Mason is that he still has the HS volume shooter/scorer mentality and, at this time, he is a score first pas second point guard, and the reason why he got the quick hook from Coach Self lots of times.

He also reminds me of a young Sherron charging blindly ahead only to get trapped in the corner or on the base line; of course as he matured he was a lot more controlled. Mason tends to do the same thing, drive blindly to the hoop only to find himself surrounded by much taller players under the basket and get his shot blocked or commit a turnover. Once he gets his game under control and learns to distribute the ball, he could be very good.

Jordan Tolbert from TT is also transferring.

The challenge for KU next year is that the returning players must answer some significant questions that will unlock the success (or failure) of the 2014-15 squad.

Tharpe - Can he defend PGs at a level that will allow him to play 25+ minutes as a starting PG? Right now, he is a huge defensive liability, which means he can't always be given minutes. Even more than his turnovers, his shaky defense really hurt KU this year.

Selden - Can he help create offense for himself and other perimeter players? This year, one of the reasons we saw a lot of inconsistency game to game from Selden and Wiggins was that wing players are dependent on solid PG play. If you're a perimeter player and you aren't the primary ball handler, you must get the ball in positions that allow you to get right into your moves. If that doesn't happen, you will always be facing a set defense, and that will bring your effectiveness down. We don't know if PG play will improve next year, so the next best option is to see Selden be able to take on ball responsibility offensively to get himself, Oubre, Frankamp and Greene all perimeter scoring opportunities, whether that's on the catch and shoot, or on the drive.

Ellis - Can he legitimately cover either 3's or 4's on a nightly basis? Perry struggled against quick guys and bigger guys. That's a problem because you can't depend on the opposition always being both smaller and slower than you. He has to be able to either bang with the big guys or move on the perimeter with the quick ones. If he can't do either, I'm not sure he can be a 25-30 mpg guy like we are hoping.

Greene - Can he be instant offense consistently? Somebody has to come off the bench and be able to score. Greene needs to be able to check in at the 13 minute mark and provide some positive value on the offensive end, while also being at least respectable defensively.

Frankamp - Same as Greene, but the challenge for him is to do that while also being able to take care of the basketball. He's never going to be a dominant scorer in college, but he can be a very effective offensive player, and so long as he can keep his man in front of him defensively, KU can live with him giving up jumpers.

Mason - I am officially tabbing him the most important returning player. Can he unseat Tharpe and provide a steady hand at the point? His inability to steady the ship this season meant that KU didn't always have an option when Tharpe struggled. Seeing as we currently don't have a PG in the recruiting fold, Mason has to provide a steady hand (and a threat to the starting spot), or we could be felled by curious PG play for a third consecutive year.

Traylor - Can he consistently hit from 12-15 feet? That's the last thing missing from his offensive package. He added the ability to drive this year. Now if he can get a decent mid range jumper, that will prevent teams from sagging into the paint off him. I'd also like to see him bulk up a bit so he can handle bigger post guys. Right now, Ellis has to be paired with someone that can handle the bigger post players. Traylor can help our roster flexibility if he can do that.

Lucas - What kind of player is he? Is he an end of the bench guy, or can he contribute something in 15 mpg? That's really what we need to see next year.

Mickelson - He's the X-factor. I honestly don't know what he will bring to the table. If he's legitimately good as a two way player, he and Alexander may help solve many of the issues we ran into this season. If he's another one way player, we may struggle again, as we could run into stretches where either the offense can't function, or the defense turns into a sieve.

@ralster Interesting fact about Smith, he wasn't ranked coming out of high school by either Rivals nor ESPN. Rivals listed him as a 3-star recruit.

Anyway, to your statement that "we KNOW our system is superior, if executed to its "usual" extent. We just need the right personnel." The problem is, as you illustrated, is that we don't always have the right personnel. Not for lack of trying, but sometimes you don't land who you'd like to in recruiting, sometimes guys leave or transfer, and sometimes they just don't pan out. In fact, I would say that more years than not Self (or any coach) is not going to get the exact perfect mix of personnel that he wants. So given that you will have more years without the ideal personnel, should it not be on the coach and the system to adapt to the players and their strengths? I think that is something that is frustrating a lot of fans. I'm not a fan of throwing the system out all together (some suggested going zone as our PRIMARY defense this past year), but it must be flexible, and that is the answer to your question: why mask? Because you have to, or you get torched trying to do it the same way with inadequate personnel.

Again, I'm all for drafting bigger guards. But there just aren't that many out there that are skilled enough, especially when you factor in that this is not a novel idea and that the vast majority of college coaches are trying to recruit along the same lines. And when I say there aren't that many, I mean there aren't that many to guarantee you're going to have 3-4 on your roster year in year out.

As far as Frankamp goes, I'm higher on him than you, but not through the roof sold on him. He did show up in both tournament games when Tharpe & Mason didn't. That's something. One thing that I personally can't trust anymore is the statements from fans saying things like "well he couldn't beat out Tharpe in practice, otherwise we would have seen him playing." Maybe he routinely beat out Tharpe, just like he outperformed him against Stanford, yet there Self was playing Tharpe more in the second half than Frankamp.

The thing that strikes me as odd in this whole debate is that you seem to be completely sold on Mason. I like Mason. A lot. But when you lead with Frankamp's weaknesses as "Will not get any taller" I think "well neither will Mason, who is listed as an inch shorter." Or when you say "If I was Deandre Kane or Marcus Smart (or Selden/Greene in ku practice) I'd go fade-away-J or dunk on Frankamp and Tharpe all day", I think "but not Mason, because he...?" I get it that Mason is more explosive and is stronger, but it just seems your major problem with Frankamp is his height, and I don't see how Mason is any better in that regard.

I actually think Frankamp compares more favorably to VanVleet than does Mason. Just watching him play those two tournament games, he had a confidence that he wasn't going to get ripped, his passes were crisp and had intent to them (not all of the just pass it around the perimeter types of passes that you see from Tharpe), his decision making and basketball IQ seemed infinitely higher than Tharpe and a decent amount higher than Mason. Oh, and Frankamp wasn't body bumped on that turnover. His feet got tangled with the Stanford defender. I don't care how strong you are, you get tripped, you're going down.

Right now I think Mason is more freshman year Sherron than upperclassman Sherron. He is a spark plug, but he is no where near ready to run the team yet. Which is fine, as he was only a freshman. We'll see how it shakes out over the summer. I'll be more than happy if either of CF or Mason can take the reigns from Tharpe.

@JayHawkFanToo

He also reminds me of a young Sherron charging blindly ahead only to get trapped

I think Mason and Wiggins had the same tendency and once they started driving they could never dish. It almost seemed they had tunnel vision and could only see the basket in front of them or had no plan 2 once they started moving. Otherwise Mason had a few beautiful lob passes to Wiggins when he was almost standing still.

@icthawkfan316 Mason and van fleet have no fear taking it to the hole, just can't see Conner having any confidence doing that. Hands down, Conner is the better shooter, but, for now, doesn't seem to be as strong as the other 2.

I forgot to mention as some of you have that we have Mickelson. Now, he'll be a junior, one year of playing experience, but more than a year of learning the self system. He's going to be an elder on this team and if he has the skills to go with it, which we hope he does, may pay big dividends on this team.

@Crimsonorblue22 You are correct from a strength standpoint. But that is just one aspect. Also, Mason's drives were almost never (can't even recall one time) designed to create for others. He gathered a head of steam and charged into the lane. That isn't all bad; we even got the reference to Tyshawn bricking so many of his driving shots and how that was a good thing in that it created offensive rebounds for his teammates. But ideally he can do both - look to score & create. Connor, while not proficient at driving the lane, was able to create offense for others during the tournament.

I look at Connor being more similar in that he seems confident and capable of running the offense, whereas Mason right now seems to operate as just a cog in the offense, not as someone leading it. Like I said, he's like freshman year Sherron. A spark plug. A "3rd down back" as I've heard it referred to before. Now if he can progress, as Sherron did to a large extent, to become more of a floor general, than he would possess most of the tools CF has plus some physical advantages.

@icthawkfan316 Mason did throw a couple of oops in that final game. He penetrated and dished. I think he's getting better, hopefully a lot better!

@Crimsonorblue22 Penetrated & dished? I remember it more along the lines that @Wishawk described, in that he was almost standing still.

@icthawkfan316

Since we compared Mason to Collins a lot this year here's the freshmen stats.

Sherron 22 min. 9.3 pts 3.5 ast. 40% on threes 76% FTs

Mason 16 min. 5.5 pts 2.0 ast. 33% on threes 66% FTs

@icthawkfan316 Mason and Conner 4 assists against eku, Mason 2 against Stanford. I guess I'm wrong, I thought he got inside the zone a few times.

@wissoxfan83 Thanks for digging up the stats. As expected, Sherron was better. But it's important to remember that Sherron was a highly sought after 5 star recruit, whereas Mason was a 3 star recruit that initially committed to Towson. I don't think the ceiling is nearly as high for Mason as it was Sherron. Which is not to say that the rankings are the be all & end all of a player's talents & ceiling, but they are a useful guide.

@icthawkfan316 think one of those lobs was to black??? Wigs only had 1 basket. If Ellis would, could, should of made a few more, they all would have more assists! We would all be in better moods! Speaking for myself!

@Wishawk

I think Mason and Wiggins had the same tendency and once they started driving they could never dish. It almost seemed they had tunnel vision and could only see the basket in front of them or had no plan 2 once they started moving. Otherwise Mason had a few beautiful lob passes to Wiggins when he was almost standing still.

The difference is that Wiggins is 9 inch taller and is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, Mason...not so much.

Chuck Norris, on the other hand, does not need to leap over tall building, the buildings move out of the way...:)

In summary, as I've posted before (as has HEM): I think SelfBall "lives and thrives" in the somewhat narrow confines of operating BEST with recruits ranked 10-50, with the main explanation that these arent OADs, since it requires 1-2yrs to learn all the plays and execute at an above-avg level...and thus, guys arent leaving before they can adeptly run what we do. We can't be a Bill Self product without the execution of all that it requires.

How telling that the best defenders were actually freshmen! But we lived (& died) with the roller coaster that freshmen are from a consistency standpoint, even if they are the #1 ranked freshman (the marvelous Wiggins can have an off game, yes it's true, as did Jabari Parker...several of them in January where Parker avg'd 10ppg less). Personnel problem when your returnees (Ellis & Tharpe) cannot carry the torch. Not a system-flaw, as the "system" was thoroughly proven by the experience and quality, athletic, and tough depth of the 2008 champs, Self's best team. The 2007 team (same guys, LESS experienced, get beat by UCLA) proving some of the same point, and the 2011 overall #1 team again proved Self can plug the right talent in, and achieve his trademark team performance. The 2012 team comes VERY close to the 2008 standard, as those starting 5 were just about everything a Self team should be, minus quality depth on the bench.

If the 2012 Jayhawks were an overachieving underdog (judging against other Self ku teams), then the 2013-14 team was an underachieving overdog based on results...(but we get to use inexperience and Embiid's injury as an excuse, if it makes us feel any better?). That doesnt help me feel better about the overall #1 MorrisHawks going down to VCwho...that was a worse fail, but that's about in-game execution, not personnel failure. Maybe on par with Michigan loss, but then we were a "softer" post presence last year than we were this year.

The inexplicable VCU or UNI type losses will happen to anybody, and are worse because of seeming strength in most statistical areas...while this year's team has obvious problems all season long, basically unmasked in an ugly .500ball sort of way our last 6games.

Another thought: Yes the game has evolved from Self's days at Tulsa and Illinois. His mid-major approach of crafting a tough team of upperclassmen into winners is somewhat leveled by where the midmajors have moved the bar in the past 10yrs: look at WSU and Gonzaga, Dayton, Davidson, etc...and now the recurring talking-head phrase of "parity". Many of the kids at lesser schools played AAU against the top recruits. So, honestly, Self's remaining "edge" has been getting his 'higher-ranked' recruits to learn and stay&play x 2-4 years.

The reality test is imagine how good the returnees will be next year, and you can leave out Ellis and Tharpe as aberrations to the usual Self-improvement rule. Just as I'm excited by what Cliff Alexander and Oubre may bring, I'm equally excited to see what Lucas and Mickelson and Greene, AW3, Mason, and Selden can do. We'd be final-four good if Embiid returns...

@ralster Great summary!

I too wish Embiid come back next year. Guess he may have to choose to be either one of the guys next year or another Hakim Olajuwon when he is ready. But he will have millions regardless.

@icthawkfan316 Good points! I had forgotten Russ Smith was a 3star...but one that obviously panned out. I will agree that Connor can do some things definitely better than Mason and Tharpe. Mason can do some things that Tharpe and Connor cannot. I seem to feel that Mason got under better control as the season went on, and his assists went up. Against Duke, yes, he had a good game, but it was all as a pressure-penetrator (not to dish, but to score or get fouled).

That is the main difference I see in Mason from Frankamp, is the physicality and the aggression. To me, that compensates for the lack of height. I notice that Self likes that bull-headed aggression also, and thats why he played Mason more than Connor. Also, Connor couldnt get his 3gun going ALL season, actually registering as the worst 3pt shooter on the team, behind Selden, Ellis, Wiggins, Tharpe, Greene. While I'd love to see Frankamp blossom into a 40% 3bomber, and pass-creating PG, he has to show consistency for us to believe he has found his 3stroke. Selden's 3% steadily got better, as did Wiggins'.

We desperately need consistent PG play, and it cannot be by "committee", as that creates a split-chemistry amongst the players, depending on who the PG is.

Again, regarding the "height" thing: Sherron wasnt getting any taller either, but he was able to play, defend, score from Day 1, partly because he had the 5star MickeyD ability, and partly because of his physically imposing stature, a muscular running back coming at you. I just dont see Frankamp or Tharpe capable of such type of aggressive play. Let's also not leave out the aggressive mentality Sherron had.

And finally, I know this biases my argument for tougher, stronger, bigger, aggressive guards: But Self LOVES that type of kid. He was shocked when Selby left, as he saw a 6'2 version of Sherron in him, and that same "ornery" swagger. Its what he/we had in Chalmers and RussRob, as well as Tyshawn.

Your point about us not getting what recruit we want, or a recruit not working out is a great point. And we literally live and die on the hardwood, based on these various kids' learning curves. The search continues, and its open competition. May the best kid win the PG role.

@ralster I was thinking how many players Sherron could destroy w/these new rules.