Best since when?
Really refreshing to see a Self team making an impact on that end. After about 10 minutes last night and shots going in they seemed to turn it up another notch.
Kenpom rated #2 in the land. The gap to #1 (Virginia) has closed significantly in the last week.
Discuss
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MuuWn81IGUIvWHgvFQ95j9FZFxkT5fiaNc5vndyCemk/edit#gid=0 ↗
dusting thing spreadsheet off. I could add this years percentages (not totals obviously) to compare. Check out opponent min column then find corresponding year for each stat.
I would say the best was 2008. I went back and looked at KenPom since 2008 and this is where the defense has ranked from 2008 through this year.
1,11,8,6,3,5,22,9,3,24,47,17,2.
I was honestly surprised to see so many top 10 defenses through the years.
4 of the Top 12 defenses in the nation are in the Big-12
5 of the Top 25
7 in the Top 50.
Going to be some snoozers this conference season
@dylans Yeah, definitely did not mean to degrade the effort. Nice to see KU return to prominence on that end.
Basically vs last year we have the following changes
Remove headcase Vick
Remove non-athletes/negative defenders Dedric, Q, KJ
Add athletes Braun/Tristan
Add average athlete Moss
The biggest thing to me is removing Dedric and Q. 60 total minutes a game there from non-defenders. It's amazing we were 17th last year.
Worth mentioning last year's 17th would be 47th this year with the same efficiency.
This does go to show how silly DRTG can sometimes be as a stat given that it is somewhat team dependant. Dotson is roughly to my eye slightly better defensively this year. DRTG 18/19 101, DRTG 19/20 87.
Last night's game also raised our offensive efficiency by like more than 1 point. We're now 11th in offensive efficiency. If only we could always play that Iowa St team.
The defense is suffocating.
Doke is a huge part of the reason the D is better this year than last. A Self defense requires a shot blocker at C, imo. Without one we are giving up easy looks at the rim and outside.
Then you have the length of Garrett, Ochai, Braun, and Enaruna denying passing lanes and Dotson jumping in them.
This is just a good team. I haven't seen anyone better this year. I feel like we pissed down our leg both losses this year. 10 unforced turnovers in MSG against Duke. The off-game in Philly (Seriously, where was Dotson's head at that day? 5-15 from the field and a final 2 minutes that was super uncharacteristic).
If I were betting on a team to win 6 games in a row right now I'd bet on us.
@BeddieKU23 Without looking at any numbers, it seemed that 2012 was the best defensive team in recent memory. The stats may not bear that out, but that team seemed more suffocating than the others. While you can see that this year's team is good defensively....it still seemed, even last night, that ISU had quite a few open threes that they could not hit. I realize they are not a great shooting team, but that still worries me against teams that can shoot.
@KirkIsMyHinrich A closer look at our strength of schedule numbers from Kenpom was illuminating. We have overall the strongest schedule to date with our opponents' defense far and away the strongest. That should be contributing to what we see as this team struggling offensively and the numbers showing our offense near top ten. We have been playing teams with good defense and that's not going to change. As a fan I personally love our strength of schedule because it means every game seems to matter. We are playing really good to decent teams night in and night out so I always have reason to care!
We have a long, fast athletic team and players who have bought in to playing defense. We also have a catalyst in Marcus.
I'm not ready to give them a defensive trophy yet. They still have a ways to go. They still don't smother like a Nova team. If they did that, no one in this country could beat us or even come close because they wouldn't score more than 40 pts.
To get to that level, we still need to bump it up a gear. I hope we get there by March.
Last night was more of a show of where ISU is this year. A weak team up to now. That explains winning at a 50% clip.
This team will definitely expose all opponents who are weak. I think we get a bump because other teams respect us a bit too much. And to the naked eye, we just look flat out amazing from a size and athletic view. But take last night for example... ISU still launched up plenty of trey shots that didn't fall and weren't contested. This is where we received too much respect. Those shooters were thinking less about netting the shot and more about a KU defender coming in from blind side to smoke their shots.
I don't want to appear negative, because I'm not. I'm happy where we are in January but I'm realistic to think we still aren't a Final Four team yet not only because of offense having kinks. Let's just hope we continue to improve at this rate. We will get there!
@drgnslayr We definitely have the tools and the mentality is coming along as well. Jesse Newell had an interesting write up that apparently the defensive game plan was just wrong coming into the game and that's what led to 17-17 score. Time out and reverting to the defensive principal of clogging the lane on pick and rolls and strategically shying off poor shooters is what broke the game open. Jesse quoted Self from the side lines yelling "load up" after that time out and showed nice screen grabs of Doke and Ochai getting feet in the paint to clog the lane and really take Iowa State's lotto pick, triple double, scoring machine point guard out of his game.
The other thing Self was coaching was high hands to discourage passes to those strategically open players.
I'm optimistic that this team could make those adjustments on the fly like that but nervous that either the scout was bad or the players' ability to execute the game play may be lacking.
I still think this team goes as Devon does on both ends. If he is feeling good and fighting hard on D it sets the tone. I always look to see what Dotson does with the first few screens. If he fights over or slips under and recovers quickly it's going to be a good game. If he passively switches leaving Doke out to dry, or goes under and feigns an attempt to get back out to the shooter, could be a long night. I'm hoping he was just nicked up or sick or something for a short stretch and is feeling better now.
BeddieKU23 said:
Best since when?
Really refreshing to see a Self team making an impact on that end. After about 10 minutes last night and shots going in they seemed to turn it up another notch.
Kenpom rated #2 in the land. The gap to #1 (Virginia) has closed significantly in the last week.
Discuss
I've noticed every team we have faced this year , other opposition announcers talk about how long KU is and how we have an outstanding defense.
I'm telling you this defense can carry us a long ways. - plus if we play like we did last night, able to hit out free throws as some aptly say cash our Money. If we hit those , make a decent 5 of out three's- - this is a VERY DANGEROUS team. -- They had a article on the cyclone fanatic - talking about how Ku is for sure a title contender
Kcmatt7 said:
The defense is suffocating.
Doke is a huge part of the reason the D is better this year than last. A Self defense requires a shot blocker at C, imo. Without one we are giving up easy looks at the rim and outside.
Then you have the length of Garrett, Ochai, Braun, and Enaruna denying passing lanes and Dotson jumping in them.
This is just a good team. I haven't seen anyone better this year. I feel like we pissed down our leg both losses this year. 10 unforced turnovers in MSG against Duke. The off-game in Philly (Seriously, where was Dotson's head at that day? 5-15 from the field and a final 2 minutes that was super uncharacteristic).
If I were betting on a team to win 6 games in a row right now I'd bet on us.
Marcus Garrett is an absolute STUD total lock down defender he is in your jersey before you even put it on in the locker room. - -When he went down last night had me scared - -though oh HELL no, we can't afford to lose this guy - he plays to big of a pat. showing leadership in his own way. He let's his play on the court do his talking for him. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Kcmatt7 said:
The defense is suffocating.
Doke is a huge part of the reason the D is better this year than last. A Self defense requires a shot blocker at C, imo. Without one we are giving up easy looks at the rim and outside.
Then you have the length of Garrett, Ochai, Braun, and Enaruna denying passing lanes and Dotson jumping in them.
This is just a good team. I haven't seen anyone better this year. I feel like we pissed down our leg both losses this year. 10 unforced turnovers in MSG against Duke. The off-game in Philly (Seriously, where was Dotson's head at that day? 5-15 from the field and a final 2 minutes that was super uncharacteristic).
If I were betting on a team to win 6 games in a row right now I'd bet on us.
YOU are spot on. - -both our losses a combined 3 points and one of the two loss's were overtime right?
@jayballer73 Are you worried about all the open 3s? Even last night, ISU had open 3s...they are not a good shooting team but other teams we face will be.
Hawk8086 said:
@jayballer73 Are you worried about all the open 3s? Even last night, ISU had open 3s...they are not a good shooting team but other teams we face will be.
ya I continue to notice , and yes they are open. They have been like this the last few years now - -wide open, have gotten lucky as far as that part goes worries me some.
Baylor is a team that can make you play. - -You CAN NOT leave Bandoo open , Butler is good. this is a game if they get those kind of quality looks might bite you in the ass - -still not sure why /or how these teams get such wide open looks - -putting my trust in Coach, hopefully we will do a little better in that area.
Great read!
I'm with you on Devon being the key to our defensive end. It always starts at point and without solid pressure on the ball teams are allowed to run whatever they want to run. I wouldn't grade Devon as a great defender yet... but he will continue to improve. He has the speed and the desire, just lacking experience.
I'm kind of surprised more aren't noticing Doke's improvements on defense. His body transformation over the summer really lifted his defense. The big fella moves his feet so much better than before. Until this year, he really wasn't a threat to anyone bringing the ball into the paint. That definitely has changed! And he isn't fouling much while defending much better. Definite sign of being coached, moving his feet to be in position and not reaching like he did.
This team has a chance to become a very special defensive team, perhaps the best Self has ever had, but they have a ways to go, including from their bench.
I'm hoping to see everyone improve on defense between now and April, but I'm keeping a special eye on Devon, Ochai and Christian. These three have lots of room for improvements and it's stuff they can improve on now. Within reach.
I could see us make a real stab at a NC if these 3 bump up their defense like I know they can!
some keys to this war with Baylor. We got to play tight 3 guard the perimeter . - -I think we guard the 3 - -they not going to kill us inside we can pretty well maintain there - - -We can't let vital just kill us on the Boards, have to keep him in check - -and can't let Butler , Teauge , and Bandoo kill us with 3's - they shoot right at 36 % from the 3. - 43.4 % overall , shoot 69'8 from the line. - -major players these thing for the W. - -gonna be a war
I think KU was over 300th in losing turnovers in 2008 (avg @ 15 per game), which seems vaguely reassuring and disturbing at the same time because I think we rode a narrow edge to the NC. I can't find a site with that the ranks of the TO stat, though. Out of practice hunting those down. I seem to remember that the first game of 2007-2008 was the one they kept citing this year after the Duke game as the last time KU had so many turnovers.
Nice post. I hadn't noticed Doke's improvement with moving his feet, I'll have to watch for that. But it makes sense in that, at least against this weak IS team, overall I thought his D is looking pretty good.
What I noticed more (and sorry I realize this is a D thread) is the big fella made 4 for 5 FTs! His form looked better too I thought. But he still looks so exasperated when he's waiting for the ball at the line, you can almost see the inner turmoil. If somehow he can keep up this new efficiency, along his better D, and amazing FG percentage he (and the team) will be even more of a force to be reckoned with.
As usual, it's a good time to be jayhawk!
!alt text ↗
StLJhawk said:
Nice post. I hadn't noticed Doke's improvement with moving his feet, I'll have to watch for that. But it makes sense in that, at least against this weak IS team, overall I thought his D is looking pretty good.
What I noticed more (and sorry I realize this is a D thread) is the big fella made 4 for 5 FTs! His form looked better too I thought. But he still looks so exasperated when he's waiting for the ball at the line, you can almost see the inner turmoil. If somehow he can keep up this new efficiency, along his better D, and amazing FG percentage he (and the team) will be even more of a force to be reckoned with.
As usual, it's a good time to be jayhawk!
!alt text ↗
possibly Doke breaking through. -- 9-14 free throws last two games.-- -5-10 against West Virginia , and 4-5 against Iowa State. - -I would think Coach would be thrilled with that at this point
Yes.... his FT shooting is coming along.
I've finally heard Self and others mention Doke's #1 challenge is his own mind. Learning to settle down and control his emotions is the biggest help he could have at this point.
He is already a 70%+ FT shooter in practice and shooting with better form. Now it is about translating that to games.
Doke is improving his emotional control. If you have any old game footage from his past you will see just how worked up he gets during a game. You can compare that to him now and he isn't without emotion, but he is more calm.
I'm extremely impressed with how much energy and focus he has put into becoming a better player. The obvious thing to notice is his physical improvements. But it's a lot more than that and he knows what he needs to do. So few players actually make the changes Doke is making. Not many guys around who step up and go after it!
@drgnslayr being healthy and able to be on the court helps too, if his age is correct, he's a young one, emotionally too.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@drgnslayr being healthy and able to be on the court helps too, if his age is correct, he's a young one, emotionally too.
VERY much doubt his listed age but yeah fingers crossed on his health.
Call me crazy but I think Doke will be have a solid 5-10 year career in the NBA if he stays healthy. Hands down the B12 player that everyone other team's players would like on their team. Perfect inside guy for 4-1 offenses. So, he can't shoot outside 8 feet, but who'd need him to? All he needs to be is a rim protector, rebounder, screen setter and dunk machine. Is Embiid going to try to guard him in the paint for lobs? LOL... No. I think the NBA still has a role for guys like Doke.
DanR said:
Call me crazy but I think Doke will be have a solid 5-10 year career in the NBA if he stays healthy. Hands down the B12 player that everyone other team's players would like on their team. Perfect inside guy for 4-1 offenses. So, he can't shoot outside 8 feet, but who'd need him to? All he needs to be is a rim protector, rebounder, screen setter and dunk machine. Is Embiid going to try to guard him in the paint for lobs? LOL... No. I think the NBA still has a role for guys like Doke.
better yet - is Doke going to try and defend Jo Jo lobs or dunks -- ya your right crazy-- - Jo Jo would eat Doke alive in the NBA & No not unless he can find some kind of shot. - - there are ALL KINDS of rim protectors in the NBa - he wouldn't be anything special that way in the NBA. - - all kinds of BIG TIME REBOUNDERS right now in the NBA. -you haven't mentioned anything that is not already in the NBA that would make him stick out from current players.
Like others have said there might be a team willing to take that risk be in G league and if he finds a spot on a NBA roster - might get some spot minutes but he is not going to be any kind of NBA stud/star - -just the way it is.
drgnslayr said:
We have a long, fast athletic team and players who have bought in to playing defense. We also have a catalyst in Marcus.
I'm not ready to give them a defensive trophy yet. They still have a ways to go. They still don't smother like a Nova team. If they did that, no one in this country could beat us or even come close because they wouldn't score more than 40 pts.
To get to that level, we still need to bump it up a gear. I hope we get there by March.
Last night was more of a show of where ISU is this year. A weak team up to now. That explains winning at a 50% clip.
This team will definitely expose all opponents who are weak. I think we get a bump because other teams respect us a bit too much. And to the naked eye, we just look flat out amazing from a size and athletic view. But take last night for example... ISU still launched up plenty of trey shots that didn't fall and weren't contested. This is where we received too much respect. Those shooters were thinking less about netting the shot and more about a KU defender coming in from blind side to smoke their shots.
I don't want to appear negative, because I'm not. I'm happy where we are in January but I'm realistic to think we still aren't a Final Four team yet not only because of offense having kinks. Let's just hope we continue to improve at this rate. We will get there!
I like that they didn't let up, like in years past. They put their foot on the throat and left it there.
Marco said:
drgnslayr said:
We have a long, fast athletic team and players who have bought in to playing defense. We also have a catalyst in Marcus.
I'm not ready to give them a defensive trophy yet. They still have a ways to go. They still don't smother like a Nova team. If they did that, no one in this country could beat us or even come close because they wouldn't score more than 40 pts.
To get to that level, we still need to bump it up a gear. I hope we get there by March.
Last night was more of a show of where ISU is this year. A weak team up to now. That explains winning at a 50% clip.
This team will definitely expose all opponents who are weak. I think we get a bump because other teams respect us a bit too much. And to the naked eye, we just look flat out amazing from a size and athletic view. But take last night for example... ISU still launched up plenty of trey shots that didn't fall and weren't contested. This is where we received too much respect. Those shooters were thinking less about netting the shot and more about a KU defender coming in from blind side to smoke their shots.
I don't want to appear negative, because I'm not. I'm happy where we are in January but I'm realistic to think we still aren't a Final Four team yet not only because of offense having kinks. Let's just hope we continue to improve at this rate. We will get there!
I like that they didn't let up, like in years past. They put their foot on the throat and left it there.
me too Marco , in some years past we have had teams that couldn't finish. - -I've always believed when you have them down , go for the throat - make sure they know they have no chance of winning the game - - close it out
BShark said:
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@drgnslayr being healthy and able to be on the court helps too, if his age is correct, he's a young one, emotionally too.
VERY much doubt his listed age but yeah fingers crossed on his health.
I met Doke before his freshman season. He came across as young, almost as a child in a mans body young. Age might be off but I'm not thinking he's older than they say.