Let's hire Bill Self as our AD and then Gregg Marshall as our head football coach and solve all our problems at once! Self stay hoops coach as long as he wants.
jaybate 1.0
10346 posts
Ah, now I can rest easier.
I am reading an often stellar history called "Railroaded: The Transcontinentals and the Making of Modern America" by Richard White, a Stanford professor trying to put a pre-emptive spin on the next wave of revisionist histories of the 19th Century construction of the transcontinentals that keeps people's eyes off of part of the whole corrupt and often vicious spectacle that was the building of the transcontinental railroad network spanning Canada, USA and Mexico.
Despite some of the holes, this is an absolute must read for anyone that wants to understand the political economy of states, and how leaving implementation of new infrastructure to private oligarchy sets in motion the subordination of states to private oligarchy. Marvelous to read a conservative historian's take on a phenomenon that liberal historians and muck rakers exposed a century ago, but which has largely gone down the memory hole the last century or so. This is the kind of history that gets written, published and awarded a Pulitzer runner up, when someone new wants to get their hands on the enduring rail infrastructure and renew calls for subsidy via the claim of reform. But again, all history has warts and unstated "beholden to's". The key here is this is a good book in spite of all the caveats.
So 'bate 1.0, just how the flip does this relate to hiring Zenger's replacement when the time comes?
Glad you asked.
Writing of the Big Four of Sacramento fame, White notes:
"Collis P. Huntington and Mark Hopkins were often more opportunistic than calculating. Their greatest gift was recognizing the opportunities that their failures and miscalculations created."
--White, Richard; "Railroaded," W.W. Norton and Company, 2011, p.28.
Think about and savor the pithy, irreverent elegance of that remark a moment.
In a time when KUAD is laboring against considerably more powerful opponents in football, and apparently bungling right and left, amidst complexity and change it can barely foresee on a clear day, one cannot realistically hope for an AD, or a coach for that matter,that is calculating enough to fit the pieces together and outsmart everyone.
What KUAD desperately needs now is bungler with a gift for recognizing his own mistakes and the opportunities his bungling creates.
Bungling seems almost a given in the KU athletic director job, and the head coaching job, too.
KU needs to focus on hiring and AD and a head coach capable of recognizing their own bungling and the unexpected opportunities it creates.
Tell me those young women are NOT freshman!!!!! :-)
Tell me one of them is NOT you!!!!
:-)
Beaty's future probably depends largely on what the adidas conveyor can deliver. Those that argue that shoes don't matter in football as much as in basketball appear to be ignoring a 900 pound gorilla and a 500 pound gorilla with shoe contracts with athletic departments in D1.
If it is remotely like adidas' basketball conveyor, we can at least infer it is very likely a smaller talent pool than available to Nike schools, however the system may in fact work. There was a time when naivety ruled about PetroShoeCo impacts on basketball, too. Now we know better, because as basketball fans we have discussed the issue and posted data and links to stories that appear to refute the naive notions of the past regarding shoe influence on basketball. Because most here are KU basketball fans first and foremost, the PetroShoeCo network in football has not been explored nearly as much, and so my hunch is that perceptions of PetroShoeCo influence remain in a naive state. I know I have not taken the time to explore the legacy of Big Shoe in football yet. And I have not read any posts here that suggest that anyone else has either. If they have, I certainly hope they begin sharing the mechanisms and dynamics of what appears a plausible PetroShoeCo-Agent complex shaping football talent distribution in a likely different way than in basketball.
And for many years now I have intentionally avoided much discussion of football out of a moral objection to the game that I have held, since brain scanning research made clear that almost any impacts in football likely cause brain damage. I have argued that football ought not be being played by schools, when school officials, athletic directors, and coaches, are apparently aware that the sport is apparently triggering brain damage to one degree or another in almost all that play the game.
But the reality is that football is such a big money attractor on so many levels (note: I did not say money maker, because it appears that a number of programs perhaps lose money, depending on how revenues and costs are defined and accounted for in the apparently near Hollywood-like accounting systems of D1 501.c3 athletics) that it is not going away any time soon. Further, the 501.c3 economics of football and basketball seem hopelessly (perhaps tragically so for basketball) intertwined. And so to continue on in naivety about football's PetroShoeCo dynamics is to imperil basketball indirectly, because the funding dynamics of both sports appear to be intertwined. For example, and on the most naive level, going to alumni and corporations to raise money for buying out failed football coaches contracts appears to reduce, or at least delay, to some degree or other the ability to go to those same alumni and corporations to raise monies for basketball needs. Thus, if we are to do right by the KU Basketball program and legacy, then we as basketball fans unfortunately have to begin to understand how football programs ought effectively to be run, and advocate for such, rather than continuing to let recent apparent incompetence reign in football management. In infer in the beginning, rightly or wrongly, getting KU football on more effective footing must be important from a basketball point of view, or Bill Self, a busy basketball coach apparently fighting a lot of fires of his own in what appears the PetroShoeCo influenced recruiting wars, would not waste his time with the football issue.
Until football is either dropped on moral-medical grounds, or gotten on more effective footing, as a point of naive beginning, my hypothesis is: Beaty is not just trying to dig out of the hole that Zenger and Weis created, for whatever reasons they deeply augured the hole. Rather, Beatu is also trying to do it dipping into a likely smaller pool of Power 5 grade players that can be difference makers than coaches not at adidas schools.
It appears rather like climbing the rock face of El Capitan in Yosemite with one hand tied behind his back; this I suspect may underly part of why Weis threw in the sponge and tried the juco approach. He perhaps figured the available PetroShoeCo talent pool for him to recruit was so small that it would perhaps take ten years, not five, to dig out. And Weis probably saw no ten year horizon to his career. So, still hypothetically speaking: maybe he and Zenger got together and talked real politik about the situation, and decided that the only win-win for both KU and Weis was for Weis to try loading up on jucos to see if Weis could get one .500 record and announce he was leaving to spend more time with his family, which decoded to another assistant's job somewhere, or maybe another head job at some small school somewhere without any pressures--the kind that Turner Gill went to after KU appeared to run him.
By doing this, maybe then the program might have been made a little more attractive to Beaty, who had perhaps been lined up by that time of real politik discussions. In a best case scenario, Beaty would have a little bit of momentum to build on, and a season to start adding his 4 year recruits-- Beaty being early enough in his career to follow a long term building program. And in a worst case scenario, there would have been no lasting influence of Weis that would obstruct Beaty's long term rebuilding plan either. Alas, the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray and we got the worst case scenario came to pass. Woe is Beaty. But at least he didn't get stuck with a bunch of inadequate four year players that had to be carried as dead weight, or run off in an unsightly act.
Thus, the positive, hypothetically speaking, is that this team, bad as it is likely to be this season, and perhaps worse next season, has an appropriately aged coach with recruiting connections to appropriate regions of the country, to make the 7-10 year slog to normalcy that KU must make. And no one needs to have any illusions that any short cuts are there to be found. This is the football equivalent of a twelve step fan. KU football is now sober for a few months. Winning is ONLY defined in staying sober one day at a time. Winning is something that comes only with long term sobriety.
Bill Snyder did not start the rebuild of Kansas State. I happen to know this, because in childhood I was a closet KSU football fan even as I rooted for my Jayhawks. My father had graduated from KSU, so I wanted to connect with him some how regarding KSU and football was something that seemed to do no harm to KU.
Doug Weaver was probably the guy that started turning KSU football around. He was there for a decade, or so. They were terrible, because back in those days you really had to cheat to recruit players and cheating involved hard cash under the table, or used cars sold cheap, not just a pair of shoes. KSU and Weaver were in no position to cheat, so Weaver had a chance to imprint some character and stability on the KSU program and at least an awareness of what would be required in football to become successful. Weaver's long term failure made clear to KSU leadership and alumni that good intentions and intelligent coaching were not enough to win in big time college football. You had to have facilities, and you had to have lots of players and a franchise quarterback. The stadium would cost a lot. The players would not come cheap. And you had to get very, very lucky on the franchise player.
Enter Vince Gibson a defensive coordinator from University of Tennessee and one of the most thoroughly southern football types I ever say. He approached the KSU problem the southern way. He was willing to do whatever it took with the rules, the alumni, and the players. His practices were previously unthinkablely savage to northerners, but were quite routine in the south. Gibson was actually flabberghasted that Kansans were appalled at his spitting on his players and having them crawl under chicken wire from opposite directions and fight past the oponent. But they gave him his football stadium. And he got them the players. And some how Lynn Dickey was drawn to Manhattan and Gibson turned the program around to .500, even getting a trophy win or two, before being run out for being a sadist. But it was Gibson that really showed the foundation of what it took to win at KSU. After Gibson, if I recall correctly, there was a restoration of properness with old KSUer Ellis Rainsberger, who proved there was no going back. Football was dirty business. It was a harsh world and the successful in it were largely NOT the kind of men you wanted to meet your mother, or your sister. You didn't even want them to meet your pals on the golf course. Football coaches--not the window dressing types, but the ones that actually got down in the face masks of the players on the practice fields, and went out and lied to the players and parents about what was in store for them in college, these were a hard and even revolting breed to university types. This was not the days of Tom Harmon and Fielding Yost. These were the times of the long shadow of Bear Bryant who nearly killed players in a patch of desert outside College Station just to develop a reputation as the meanest sunnuvabitch that ever blew a whistle. These were the times when head coaches like Dr. Tom "albino" Osborne were beginning to pretend to be learned gentlement, or at least buttoned down corporate types in public, while looking the other way at Caliban-like assistants feeding their players every kind of performance enhancing steroid they could find and feeding them raw meat and protein shakes, paying them bounties for injuring opposing players. and lining up borderline co-ed nymphonmaniacs for visiting recruits. This was how it really was. This is what Pete Gent briefly tried to blow the whistle on that was then deftly washed down the football media memory hole to be replaced with the pasteurized, homogenized horse shit that passes for sports reporting ever since. But I digress.
Bill Snyder is the guy that walked into Manhattan prepared for him by Weaver, Gibson and Rainesberger, from the corrupt Hayden Fry Iowa program experience at North Texas State and knew the time was ripe in Manhattan for the gentlemanly approach with brass knuckle staff and the ag and oil driven recruiting scheme. Don't get me wrong. Bill Snyder is the leper with the most fingers among this class of coaches. He is now almost a dinosaur. This class of coaches that dawned the scholarly demeanor, like Bill Walsh, or the business suit and Brooks Brothers coat of Tom Landry, or the "Dr." of Tom Osborne, and maintained the "whatever it takes" assistant coaches,were all the vogue for a time.
Snyder had to have what had happened at KSU before he got there to make it work. KSU had to be savvy and willing to put on the gas masks to achieve what they achieved.
One question today for KU is has anything happened in the past to lay a foundation for a Bill Snyder type?
Another question for today is: Is David Beaty KU's Doug Weaver, or Bill Snyder?
Still another is: Where is KU on the evolutionary time line?
And another: how can it play the PetroShoeCo politics and economics in recruiting to begin moving forward?
And a final one: when are we KU basketball fans going to wise ourselves up about the football Big Shoe dynamics, so that we can better advocate for basketball? I don't want to do any more digging. I am old and tired of digging. But I am going to see if I've got any juice left in the battery and at least start.
Hiring KU football coaches is analogous to painting the Golden Gate Bridge.
Scraping and painting reputedly start on one end and by the time the other end is reached, it is time to start scraping and painting again on the starting end.
As soon as you complete the long process of hiring the coach and promoting him his first season, it is time to start looking for another coach.
(Picture Credit: Mash up by Richard Avebate 1.0. Credit for taking the original images captured on the internet and mashed up here is attributed to all that took the pictures and hold the rights to those pictures mashed up here. This is intended as a non commercial use of those pictures for purposes of satiric amusement and use of this mashed up image beyond the confines of this reputedly non commercial web site is expressly prohibited and said NOT to be cricket.)
Rock Chalk!!!
Okay, now i am rehabilitation and the staples are holding.
It was still hilarious, but I promised the doc I would stay composed.
All it takes to get a really big crowd on Late Night is adidas deciding to spring $200,000,000 on James Harden, eh?
That gets their attentions, alright.
BUT ROY AND THAT DOG!!!!!
TEARS.
TEARS.
HOWLING.
MORE MITOSIS.
32RDS.
ITS TOO LATE.
64THS.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH
I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO LOOK AT A RAT AGAIN WITHOUT SEEING KONSONANTS.
IF I WERE RATS, I WOULD BE FURIOUS AT BEING LIKENED TO HIM.
OMG!!!!
OMG!!!!!!
THE LAUGHTER IS COMING ON AGAIN.
I AM NOW CHASING BOTH EYE BALLS AS THEY ROLL DOWN THE STAIRWAY!!!!!!!
SAM KINISON USED TO HOLD THE RECORD FOR HAVING MADE ME LAUGH THE HARDEST.
BUT THIS THREAD HAS ECLIPSED EVEN SAM!!!!!
THIS IS EASILY THE GREATEST THREAD IN THE HISTORY OF THREADS!!!!!!!!
FISHER AND WHATEVER THAT CHARACTER'S NAME IS....I AM NOW IN EIGHTEENTHS.....OMG, I AM DISAPPEARING.!!!!!!!!!
ROY AND THAT EFFFING DOG!!!!!
OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTT
NOW I CAN'T EVEN SEE
I HAVE GONE THROUGH SOME KIND OF CELL MITOSIS.
I AM IN EIGHTHS.
I HAVEN'T SPLIT THIS MUCH SINCE I WAS A F_ING ZYGOTE.
HELP ME, HELP ME, HELP ME.....I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING.
I AM AT SOME KIND OF CRITICAL MASS.....!!!!!!!
Webber and Liberace side by side.
OMG!
OMG!!!!
I have torn into fourths.
I am running off in all directions!!!!
Make it stop!!!!!!!!
Oh shit!!!!!!
Konsonants and a rabid rat!!!!!!!
My staples just shot across the ER!!!!!
I am split completely in half!!!!!!!!!
The ER doc is laughing to hard to put me back together again!!!!!
Help me, help me, help me, I am Morri, twins, ripped apart by laughter!!!!
OMG!
OMG!
OMG!!!!!
Quick!!!!!
That has to become a t-shirt!!!!!!!!
Imagine Jay Bilas wearing it under his suit coat on game day instead of a white button down and a tie.
OMG!!!!!
OMG!!!!!!!!
Half of me has gone running out the OR howling!!!!!!!!
Kurtis and Ollie?
HOWLING!
You owe me big time for the cost of these sutures.
I am in the ambulance going to be sewn up, or may be stapled.
It only hurts when I laugh.
Thanks for the recall augmentation. I guess this means there will be no "all conditional" team this season. :-(
Also, cut title to "CHAMPS."
Total PHOF!!!!!!!!!!!!
On another thread, @JayHawkFanToo and @Texas-Hawk-10 were working through the details of Skal Labissiere's and Cheick Diallo's waiting for approval to play. It seemed to hinge on clearance vs. eligibility much as Shakespearean tragedy hinges on appearance vs. reality.
This made me wonder: who would be on the "all conditional recruit team" this season? 😀
Imagine if Cal had landed Lab and Diallo. UK would be the number 1 ranked "all-conditional team."
Sorry, I don't follow the Astros. But teams either blow hot and then cold, or vice versa. It is playing to one's average. If they aren't talented enough, or mature enough, they blow so cold they lose their leads and are beaten out.
Same with coaches. Same with every profession.
But Coach Weis did not blow hot and then cold.
He just blew cold.
But he did start out with one plan that was sure to broom out much of what he inherited and likely to take a long time to work, say, like the length of time Zenger's mentor, Snyder, once took. But then he anomalously junked it, and tried something with an even higher improbability of success, and one sure to leave a replacement with many fewer players on four year trajectories, i.e., with large numbers that would be shortly gone when he moved on.
.
I don't find it curious. He is a great coach that turned around arguably the worst football program in history. One of his disciples, Mangino, turned our program around before running into troubles. Another of his disciples was hired AD to put our program back on track. Why wouldn't board rats talk about Snyder?
I also wanted to say you wrote the best post on Weis I have ever read. Thanks.
In this era, it might be very expensive to hire a broom, if what had to be done involved gutting a program in a way that effectively wrecked one's ability to be hired. No promising young coach like Beaty would have wanted to be the broom. A coach at the butt end of a career would be needed, but how many butt-enders want to disgrace themselves on the way out? Only ones paid handsomely it would seem. I saw a broom once in another field. He was paid handsomely to clean house, resign and disappear.
But there are many ways to guaranty failure. You know this.
And now you are, too! 😀
Because I added a new post and deleted the one your post once spoke too! 😎
Remove
wadded
panties
from
region
between
glutes. 😀
Now that u r more comfortable and can cease swinging, you will have to tell me who taught you the thread destabilization tactic of quoting something I didn't say and attributing it to me?
HOWLING!
Here is what you quoted me as saying that you made up and put in quotes.
“Bill Self had more talent because I said so. Bill Self is the best coach ever because you know duh?!”--mdm7eb
Next.
You give a good explanation of why Gill was dumped, but that raises the flag even more about why Weis was hired. Was he a broom?
I never had a bone to pick with running Mangino, because of the grounds reputed for his dismissal. But his record his last season was significantly better them either Gil, or Weiss. So: I am not sure you could make a credible case Mangino gutted the program on the order of what Weis did. Not even sure what Gill did equates with Weis.
It was somewhat obvious he was a mediocre talent as a head coach, when he was .500 at ND and no pros wanted him for a head coach. He appears to have been a broom. But why were two consecutive brooms needed? That was a conspicuous anomaly
Hmmm.
Help me here.
If all he had to do was stick with his plan and his offense and slowly improve Snyder style to keep collecting millions for his wife's old age and avoid leaving the game a complete disgrace, why did he change and why did Zenger not shit can him for changing? Why let him completely wreck the plan?
Do you think that anyone that thinks this was simply a comedy or tragedy of errors maybe having a psychotic break! ;-)
PHOF
They dropped in pursuit of more possessions?
What is the limit on the number of shoes a player can sell before each game?
And does he have to report the sale as earned income?
jSPN has KU ranked above number one. KU is the first team ever to be ranked -1.!!
And it was ok cuz I deserved it!!!
Thank god almighty, not another short PG!! 😀
Really, Cheick and the Jam Tray look alike but for the hair do's. No wonder Self took a flyer on the potentially bouncing Cheick!!!! He has that body morphology tha Self and you get all hot about!!!!
Then why wasn't Weis fired after the first season, when it was crystal clear shit canning 30% of a team already starting from scratch was gutting the team and creating a long term rebuild? Why let him then load up with useless short term jucos that could only make it worse? And if he could not tell until two years that gutting was accidentally occurring, why did he ever undertake such a hopeless short term approach in the first place, when his mentor was mister long term approach Bill Snyder?
Hypothesis: Zenger was intentionally using Weis as a broom to gut the program.
But the real question is why did he need to Broom it a second time, after Gill had broomed it too? No one has ever accused Gill of being any thing but a strait shooting fundamentalist Christian, so why two consecutive guttings?
What was so toxic in the football program that two straight brooms were required to clean out KU FOOTBALL?
What was REALLY going on?
Not over your head. Formalizations are more complicated than concepts formalized. Less than a decade ago an experiment was done at CERN in Switzerland in the particle accelerator. They were testing the Einstein Podolsky Rosen (EPR) paradox and quantum entanglement hypotheses. Physics of both Newton and Einstein hold locality assumptions. Cause and effect cannot occur at supra-luminal speeds. If I swing a baseball bat here, I cannot cause a baseball across the universe to go out of the park. Cause here can only create effects here. EPR paradox was posed to show that quantum entanglement of particles (altering the spin of one altering the spin of another) implied by quantum mechanics formulas violationed the locality assumption. But the experiment at CERN proved quantum entanglement by holding one particle at CERN and sending its entangled mate out a fiber optic cable some distance; then altering the spin at CERN and measuring spin of the mate. It changed spin. Therefore at the quantum level particle spin can theoretically be altered at great distances. Particle spin can be a 0 and a 1 and so digital communication over great distances with short time lags is theoretically now possible.
STREET VALUE INDEX FOR SHOES ALLOTED TO UNIVERSITIES IN THE TENS OF THOUSANDS UNDER SHOE CONTRACTS :
(Note: this is the resale value that student-athletes in the major sports can expect to get from alumni, when selling their shoe allotments to make the payments on their Pre NBA Benzes and Escalades.)
Small Donors: $200/PAIR
Large Donors: $400/PAIR
Private Oligarchs with Subsidy Based Wealth Seeking University and State Legislature Political Economy Influence Through the Back Door of 501c.3 Athletic Departments: $1,000/PAIR.
Private Oligarchs with Narco and Black Market Weapons Based Wealth Seeking University and State Legislature Political Economy Influence Through the Back Door of 501c.3 Athletic Departments: $10,000/PAIR.
(NOTE: All fiction. No malice.)
Only a German shoe company would shoot its basketball shoes on a brick patio!
Asphalt, or sacred wood, or prison yard green, please.
Screw the shoes.
Where do I get that black background?
If players can't earn few thou selling their allotments for these, then they need to go to Ernest and Julio Gallo's wine sales training seminars.