Current Points Total

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PER's after the fist two games. Zach's out of this world PER through 2 games! Ochai Elite through 2.

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Dave with a slow start, but I'm not sure it is totally unexpected.

NPOchY is going to be a force. LOVE how Bill has used him so far this season. Still getting him the open 3s. But now he's getting him 1v1 situations and posting him up a few times a game. Really using that athleticism to get easy baskets.

LOL Clemence numbers.

KU is Kenpom #3- #3 offense, #5 defense so far.

What is PER?

Player Efficiency Rating

How's it calculated? I mean what do those numbers mean?

@wissox

A measurement of a player's per minute performance. Avg is considered 15. Takes everything into account- offense/defense/turnovers/fouls. It's then adjusted to each player to a per-minute basis, also adjusted for pace of the game.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@wissox

A measurement of a player's per minute performance. Avg is considered 15. Takes everything into account- offense/defense/turnovers/fouls. It's then adjusted to each player to a per-minute basis, also adjusted for pace of the game.

I'm still unclear how "defense" is represented as so much of that is more of a team concept than an individual one. Like some players can gamble for steals or blocks because they are counting on rotational help, etc.

Someone like Harris I would imagine gets little credit for sticky on ball defense that leads to stressed passes that may result in a steal, shot clock violation, or just overall stress on the opponent because how would ANYONE go about measuring that.

With that said, I do recognize it's about as good as we have as a numerical measure as long as it isn't viewed as the ONLY measure of value to the team.

Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That's why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece...

He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he'll make a play occasionally, but he's been here six years! He's never been a player that you can consistently rely on.

I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on..

@Marco I'd say riding the pine might be a bit tough. I feel like his value is that most of the time he can be counted on to do the things Bill knows he can do and then not venture too far out of that comfort zone. Self can tell Mitch, "go do this" and then have younger players getting coached on the sidelines watching how he goes and does that thing. But yeah, 5-10 minutes should be about the MAX per game for that kind of role.

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco I'd say riding the pine might be a bit tough. I feel like his value is that most of the time he can be counted on to do the things Bill knows he can do and then not venture too far out of that comfort zone. Self can tell Mitch, "go do this" and then have younger players getting coached on the sidelines watching how he goes and does that thing. But yeah, 5-10 minutes should be about the MAX per game for that kind of role.

Thank you! A situational 5 to 7 mpg.

In fact,, I'll say this.. I'm going to be watching Wilson when he comes back. In reality, it is about team afterall, right? If he starts jacking up shots and missing them while trying to improve his draft stock, Bill shouldn't hesitate to play Clemence and Adams more.

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That's why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece...

He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he'll make a play occasionally, but he's been here six years! He's never been a player that you can consistently rely on.

I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on..

Come on is right man. KU has never recruited Mitch to be a big contribution. They knew what they were getting when they recruited him, not EVERYONE can be those Mega Studs a point a minute. What Dave does is the things that your Mega Studs don't want to be bothered with , the charge -the block - -the loose ball - -setting the screens . Thank GOD the Staff realizes that While your studs or for the most part - -all they are concerned about is get me the ball so I can do y thing. Mitch knows he has no future in the NBA - -I'm quite sure he realized that some time ago

Teams - - -Including KU need the Mitch' s of the Basketball world REAL SCRAPPERS - Thank God Coach knows that , there is more to the game then just scoring and looking flashy. - - The minutes he DOES get is just fine , people who can't understand that then just don't understand the complete picture of the game

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco I'd say riding the pine might be a bit tough. I feel like his value is that most of the time he can be counted on to do the things Bill knows he can do and then not venture too far out of that comfort zone. Self can tell Mitch, "go do this" and then have younger players getting coached on the sidelines watching how he goes and does that thing. But yeah, 5-10 minutes should be about the MAX per game for that kind of role.

Thank you! A situational 5 to 7 mpg.

Thank You

@jayballer67 oh stop it! The guy is taking up minutes, we have players now. Clemence and Adams can already outperform him on the offensive end, and if they get playing time will improve on the defensive level. I know, you like the loyalty and all that, so do I,,, but he can't play. I mean, Mitch needs PT over Clemence and Adams?

He needs to occassionally come in just for a rah rah thing, that's about it...

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

KU is Kenpom #3- #3 offense, #5 defense so far.

Would have thought our defense was dog crap but I at this point the preseason stuff is still heavily factored in.

@BShark We are giving up points but definitely feels like we are playing high possession games so the D numbers could actually be there. But I never know how Kenpom comes up with numerically based pre-season rankings...

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BShark We are giving up points but definitely feels like we are playing high possession games so the D numbers could actually be there. But I never know how Kenpom comes up with numerically based pre-season rankings...

A lot of it is based on historical precedent with players and the program. By the end of the season all that stuff is gone though.

This was never going to be an elite defensive team given the pieces but every time with Bill give me a team that can score it, he will make the defense work well enough. He did make a FF with his worst defensive team by far... Helps to have 5 pros in your rotation, it turns out.

@BeddieKU23 Thanks! I would have answered early, but I was supposed to be working!

@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That's why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece...

He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he'll make a play occasionally, but he's been here six years! He's never been a player that you can consistently rely on.

I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on..

Come on is right man. KU has never recruited Mitch to be a big contribution. They knew what they were getting when they recruited him, not EVERYONE can be those Mega Studs a point a minute. What Dave does is the things that your Mega Studs don't want to be bothered with , the charge -the block - -the loose ball - -setting the screens . Thank GOD the Staff realizes that While your studs or for the most part - -all they are concerned about is get me the ball so I can do y thing. Mitch knows he has no future in the NBA - -I'm quite sure he realized that some time ago

Teams - - -Including KU need the Mitch' s of the Basketball world REAL SCRAPPERS - Thank God Coach knows that , there is more to the game then just scoring and looking flashy. - - The minutes he DOES get is just fine , people who can't understand that then just don't understand the complete picture of the game

Stop! Enough with the floor burn, loyalty crap. He should hardly be in the rotation. Good god, you don't think that Clemence and Adams - and what about Wilson, he'll be back soon - need to play? A block here, a point there, I mean really? You bring up Jerod, I liked me some Haas. Mitch is not Haas, in any lifetime.

I'll take it a step further. I'd take Jamari Traylor over Mitch any day of the week. Not trying to be disrespectful to you @jayballer67 but come on. For this team to reach its potential not only this year but next, he needs to be a cheerleader sooner rather than later. Same reason that I wanted Marcus to leave, I wanted Mitch too as well.

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That's why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece...

He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he'll make a play occasionally, but he's been here six years! He's never been a player that you can consistently rely on.

I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on..

Come on is right man. KU has never recruited Mitch to be a big contribution. They knew what they were getting when they recruited him, not EVERYONE can be those Mega Studs a point a minute. What Dave does is the things that your Mega Studs don't want to be bothered with , the charge -the block - -the loose ball - -setting the screens . Thank GOD the Staff realizes that While your studs or for the most part - -all they are concerned about is get me the ball so I can do y thing. Mitch knows he has no future in the NBA - -I'm quite sure he realized that some time ago

Teams - - -Including KU need the Mitch' s of the Basketball world REAL SCRAPPERS - Thank God Coach knows that , there is more to the game then just scoring and looking flashy. - - The minutes he DOES get is just fine , people who can't understand that then just don't understand the complete picture of the game

Stop! Enough with the floor burn, loyalty crap. He should hardly be in the rotation. Good god, you don't think that Clemence and Adams - and what about Wilson, he'll be back soon - need to play? A block here, a point there, I mean really? You bring up Jerod, I liked me some Haas. Mitch is not Haas, in any lifetime.

I'll take it a step further. I'd take Jamari Traylor over Mitch any day of the week. Not trying to be disrespectful to you @jayballer67 but come on. For this team to reach its potential not only this year but next, he needs to be a cheerleader sooner rather than later. Same reason that I wanted Marcus to leave, I wanted Mitch too as well.

LOL you wanted Marcus to leave ? - - ok that's all I need to hear that's funny Marcus meant so much to this team - - Ya a block here and a point there dam straight maynard , everyone has a job to do on this roster and Mitch does his quite well. Like you said to me - no disrespect BUT I think I'll have a lil - - just a lil more feel of what Coach Self is doing then somebody like yourself. - I mean a College hal of fame Coach making those kind of decisions EVERY DAY. Do you actually think he is going to continue to play Mitch period if he is hurting this team - -umm no he wouldn't. Nobody on this site says Mitch plays 20 minutes a game Mitch even knows that but for the back up spot duty Mitch is more - -much more then competent then to do that.

Plus where in the holy hell did you see me say ANYTHING anything at all in any of this conversation about Clemence and Adams NOT playing - -please point that out to me I must of went comotose for a fe minutes. - Like I said I think I kind of favor Coach's reasoning decision making just a teensy bit mor then yours - looks like he is doing just fine.

Marcus leave? 🤬 DPOY are you nuts? His D got him a job in the nba

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Marcus leave? 🤬 DPOY are you nuts? His D got him a job in the nba

boy I agree with you , there are just some people that only look from that scoring aspect I guess - Marcus was so valuable to the team Steals rebounding and score - I dunno - I just dunno

Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.

Obviously there's a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self's had at KU.

Here's the issue with using PER to justify who should or shouldn't play, it's an offensive statistic that doesn't account for a player's defensive abilities. This is why Marcus Garrett never had a great PER because he was never a great offensive player.

Dejuan Harris is in this same category. Because Harris isn't a guy who looks to score first, that hurts his PER number. Harris is the team's best defensive player though so he absolutely makes up for his lack of scoring with his defensive abilities just like Garrett did.

Bobby Pettiford is going to be a really good player for Kansas, but as a PG, he's not there yet because it takes time and reps to learn and efficiently run Self's system. When Devon Dotson was forced to run the show as a freshman, it was rough at times because of him not quite having the system figured out. Pettiford would be in a similar situation, so him coming off the bench in limited minutes allows Self to maximize where Pettiford is at right now.

As for the Braun/JCL debate, it really should be situational because if KU needs it's best defense on the floor, that'll include JCL, but not Braun. As for the offensive end of the floor, I'd say go with the hot hand and if both are hot, play them both together to maximize that situation.

With the Mitch/Clemence debate, it's all about defense there with Self trusting Mitch on defense much more than Clemence. Clemence is no doubt the better offensive player, but his defense is still really bad based on his limited minutes so far and was always the much bigger question with him about his overall ability. With Mitch, we know what we're going to get from him when he's in.

@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That's why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece...

He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he'll make a play occasionally, but he's been here six years! He's never been a player that you can consistently rely on.

I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on..

Come on is right man. KU has never recruited Mitch to be a big contribution. They knew what they were getting when they recruited him, not EVERYONE can be those Mega Studs a point a minute. What Dave does is the things that your Mega Studs don't want to be bothered with , the charge -the block - -the loose ball - -setting the screens . Thank GOD the Staff realizes that While your studs or for the most part - -all they are concerned about is get me the ball so I can do y thing. Mitch knows he has no future in the NBA - -I'm quite sure he realized that some time ago

Teams - - -Including KU need the Mitch' s of the Basketball world REAL SCRAPPERS - Thank God Coach knows that , there is more to the game then just scoring and looking flashy. - - The minutes he DOES get is just fine , people who can't understand that then just don't understand the complete picture of the game

Stop! Enough with the floor burn, loyalty crap. He should hardly be in the rotation. Good god, you don't think that Clemence and Adams - and what about Wilson, he'll be back soon - need to play? A block here, a point there, I mean really? You bring up Jerod, I liked me some Haas. Mitch is not Haas, in any lifetime.

I'll take it a step further. I'd take Jamari Traylor over Mitch any day of the week. Not trying to be disrespectful to you @jayballer67 but come on. For this team to reach its potential not only this year but next, he needs to be a cheerleader sooner rather than later. Same reason that I wanted Marcus to leave, I wanted Mitch too as well.

LOL you wanted Marcus to leave ? - - ok that's all I need to hear that's funny Marcus meant so much to this team - - Ya a block here and a point there dam straight maynard , everyone has a job to do on this roster and Mitch does his quite well. Like you said to me - no disrespect BUT I think I'll have a lil - - just a lil more feel of what Coach Self is doing then somebody like yourself. - I mean a College hal of fame Coach making those kind of decisions EVERY DAY. Do you actually think he is going to continue to play Mitch period if he is hurting this team - -umm no he wouldn't. Nobody on this site says Mitch plays 20 minutes a game Mitch even knows that but for the back up spot duty Mitch is more - -much more then competent then to do that.

Plus where in the holy hell did you see me say ANYTHING anything at all in any of this conversation about Clemence and Adams NOT playing - -please point that out to me I must of went comotose for a fe minutes. - Like I said I think I kind of favor Coach's reasoning decision making just a teensy bit mor then yours - looks like he is doing just fine.

Yes, I wanted Marcus to leave after last year. We got Remi and Pettiford, Joseph - I'll take that over Marcus any day of the week. And that's not disrespecting Marcus, just the way it is. It was time for him to move on. Mitch should have too.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Marcus leave? 🤬 DPOY are you nuts? His D got him a job in the nba

Marcus - had he returned - would've hurt the team. Simple as that. He needed to leave. I wish him well in the NBA. I like Marcus, but his skillset would not be good for this year's team.

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

Thank you!

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.

Obviously there's a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self's had at KU.

Thank you too!

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

Thank you!

As in getting the Big 12 leader in assists and DPOY back to play the 2. Ugh we’d be terrific. I think Remy and Garrett would be terrific complements. That assist% of 25 😩

Ah well. I like Juan too

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.

Obviously there's a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self's had at KU.

I was thinking Remy at the 1, Garrett at the 2. Garrett and Dotson worked well. Garrett is a very good facilitator and tbh is just a better Juan in a lot of respects. Oh well. A guy can dream. Marcus made the right decision for himself and I respect that.

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.

Obviously there's a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self's had at KU.

I was thinking Remy at the 1, Garrett at the 2. Garrett and Dotson worked well. Garrett is a very good facilitator and tbh is just a better Juan in a lot of respects. Oh well. A guy can dream. Marcus made the right decision for himself and I respect that.

I respect his decision bigtime, and wish him well. My observation? Great defensive player obviously, and he was a great asset to our team, but he isn't a point guard (the offense stalls), nor is he really skilled enough to be a two. He isn't going to stick in the NBA, overseas bound. There, I said it, now I'm done.

So much digital ink arguing over playing time after 2 games with one of our starters suspended.

Y'all should have gone to Law School and gotten paid to quibble!

@mayjay 😄

Anyway, play Clemence more Bill, please. Clemence and Adams once Jalen comes back to play his about 22 mpg are more than capable to play backup roles at both the 5 and 4, depending on the situation.

@mayjay

Better then arguing and quibbling about the 65 Level 1 violations hanging over our head..

PER is definitely more of a measure of how well someone plays offense. It's not the end-all, its certainly helpful in quantifying how well/bad/average someone is playing on that side of the ball. Helps put the eye test to numbers

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That's why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece...

He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he'll make a play occasionally, but he's been here six years! He's never been a player that you can consistently rely on.

I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on..

Come on is right man. KU has never recruited Mitch to be a big contribution. They knew what they were getting when they recruited him, not EVERYONE can be those Mega Studs a point a minute. What Dave does is the things that your Mega Studs don't want to be bothered with , the charge -the block - -the loose ball - -setting the screens . Thank GOD the Staff realizes that While your studs or for the most part - -all they are concerned about is get me the ball so I can do y thing. Mitch knows he has no future in the NBA - -I'm quite sure he realized that some time ago

Teams - - -Including KU need the Mitch' s of the Basketball world REAL SCRAPPERS - Thank God Coach knows that , there is more to the game then just scoring and looking flashy. - - The minutes he DOES get is just fine , people who can't understand that then just don't understand the complete picture of the game

Stop! Enough with the floor burn, loyalty crap. He should hardly be in the rotation. Good god, you don't think that Clemence and Adams - and what about Wilson, he'll be back soon - need to play? A block here, a point there, I mean really? You bring up Jerod, I liked me some Haas. Mitch is not Haas, in any lifetime.

I'll take it a step further. I'd take Jamari Traylor over Mitch any day of the week. Not trying to be disrespectful to you @jayballer67 but come on. For this team to reach its potential not only this year but next, he needs to be a cheerleader sooner rather than later. Same reason that I wanted Marcus to leave, I wanted Mitch too as well.

LOL you wanted Marcus to leave ? - - ok that's all I need to hear that's funny Marcus meant so much to this team - - Ya a block here and a point there dam straight maynard , everyone has a job to do on this roster and Mitch does his quite well. Like you said to me - no disrespect BUT I think I'll have a lil - - just a lil more feel of what Coach Self is doing then somebody like yourself. - I mean a College hal of fame Coach making those kind of decisions EVERY DAY. Do you actually think he is going to continue to play Mitch period if he is hurting this team - -umm no he wouldn't. Nobody on this site says Mitch plays 20 minutes a game Mitch even knows that but for the back up spot duty Mitch is more - -much more then competent then to do that.

Plus where in the holy hell did you see me say ANYTHING anything at all in any of this conversation about Clemence and Adams NOT playing - -please point that out to me I must of went comotose for a fe minutes. - Like I said I think I kind of favor Coach's reasoning decision making just a teensy bit mor then yours - looks like he is doing just fine.

Yes, I wanted Marcus to leave after last year. We got Remi and Pettiford, Joseph - I'll take that over Marcus any day of the week. And that's not disrespecting Marcus, just the way it is. It was time for him to move on. Mitch should have too.

LOL ya you know it buddy. You hang on to your thoughts you gonna be ok. They are your believes - -don't agree 1 % with them BUT there yours - - good for you we could go back and forth on this all day - all year but NOPE not me.- -ROCK CHALK

I was expecting low numbers from Dave... it's early in the year and also we have a new PG situation and we are not tweaked for in-post feeds yet.

Jalen coming back might influence his #s, too... in either direction... depending on how Jalen plays his game.

If this was last year, I'd state how I think Dave's numbers will climb later on. Not so sure this year. Really matters how this team plays. Self will go for whatever works to add more points (or defend more points).

Have to say I am a bit disappointed... thought Dave would come back with more foot speed... both in lateral movement and full court speed. His lack of foot speed is a definite Achilles' heel with this team!

Very early for advanced stats but always fun.

I will say the biggest thing to me this year is simply...having a bench at all. Regardless of who people think should start or how Self is using it the options this year are much better than TGF, Bryce, Tristan etc

I still think Bryce is/will be good. Must be mental? Could be his dad.

Remember - stopping a guy from scoring IS THE SAME AS SCORING. I’ll repeat that. STOPPING A BUCKET EQUALS SCORING ONE. how many games did Garrett hold the best opposing scorer to a paltry few baskets?? thats the same as scoring those points.
And yes Marcus would have been on the floor this year for very good reason despite who we have now.

Next few games really watch what Mitch does away from the ball. ESPN replays all their game on demand so one can rewatch multiple times and concentrate on any given single player.

I'd take Marcus on this year's team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.

@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

I'd take Marcus on this year's team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.

I respect your opinion, as always. Just don't think that Marcus would have fit in well with this year's team, is all. In fact, had he returned, we probably wouldn't even have a couple of guards that are now in fold. That's all I was saying. Was not trying to imply that Marcus isn't a player.

Updated Point Totals after Stony Brook win!

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Updated PER's

Buy Zach stock now, I bought it last year!~

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KU now #2 per Kenpom, #4 O, #7D with a 27.48 rating overall

@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

I'd take Marcus on this year's team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.

Had Garrett come back though, KU may not have Remy or Pettiford on the roster which completely changes the outlook of this team because of that.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

I'd take Marcus on this year's team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.

Had Garrett come back though, KU may not have Remy or Pettiford on the roster which completely changes the outlook of this team because of that.

I said the same. Had he returned, I don't believe that either of them would be playing for us.

Updated after the ESPN tourney. Braun a big riser after a really strong 3 game tournament. We need that CB every night.

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Season Point Totals Updated

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Kenpom updated. Defense has cratered

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Updated, post St Johns

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You can see why Bill is pounding the table about being better defensively. This group scores pretty effortlessly (thus far). Even despite starting Jaun, Dave having his moments, and Jalen being slow to start. Certainly the improvements from Braun and Ochai are obvious. But the lack of dropoff from subs also helps. Really felt that preseason this team should be a top 2 or 3 in the country. Right now they look solidly top 10, but maybe not a 1 seed caliber team quite yet.

I swear if they would just come out of the half with a little bit of a killer instinct they could put games away by the 25 minute mark. The last 4 games they basically let teams back into the game and then had to crank it up halfway through the 2nd half to win.

I do think Bill needs to let Remy cook a little bit more. But I can appreciate that Bill is trying to get him to take what is in the flow vs. creating something. Still, I think he is probably one of the best players in the country at taking his guy 1v1 with the shot clock/game clock under 10 and getting a bucket. Silly not to use that to our advantage like we did when we had DG, Frank and Sherron.

Still like what this team can do. And if we can get hot enough we could win the whole thing from a 3 or 4 seed with the talent that is here.

AP #8 this week

@BeddieKU23 I'd say eight is about right.

Here's the thing about being a great defender but a subpar offensive player - you take away as much as you give, even if you don't take many shots.

Think about it this way. Let's say Harris is guarding the other team's PG, who is also a good scorer. Harris makes life tough on that guy, forces him to shoot under 45% from the field, three or four turnovers, etc. That's a pretty good game from Harris on the defensive end.

But offensively, that PG gets to guard Harris and rest on that end of the floor. Maybe that means that PG has more energy down the stretch because Harris is a non threat when he is on the floor, so you don't have to work to close out to him, and can just play off for the drive. So yes, Harris may not get credit for his defense, but he is also not penalized for not taking shots (no misses) and he doesn't turn the ball over much, but he is still a liability on offense because he can't shoot.

Offensively, you can't be a non-entity. Aaron Miles was effective because he was a very good defender and also a great passer.

Marcus Garrett was successful because he could rebound pretty well, and was a more versatile defender. But if Marcus Garrett had been even a little bit worse defensively, he probably becomes unplayable early in his career, and is only a spot player as a junior and senior. Essentially, if Garrett was anything less than a top 5 defender in the nation, he is not a starter at KU, probably ever. His offense was just too bad for that, unless he was an elite defender.

Offense is important because a bad offensive player doesn't have to be guarded, thereby turning their opponent into an elite defender with little effort. Put this way, Harris is an elite defender, and could certainly give a guy like Remy Martin tons of problems on defense. But Remy Martin wouldn't have to do much of anything to produce a similar result guarding Harris on the other end. So Harris is, at best, a net zero in the trade off, potentially less if his assignment doesn't turn the ball over and doesn't have a terrible shooting night. We're talking about the difference between his guy going 2-11 from the field and 4-11. Both are bad, but if his guy goes 4-11 and hits a couple FTs, that's still double figures and if turnovers are minimized, that's a win considering Harris may not score at all, and allows his man to sag off him when he's on the perimeter.

An inability to score is a huge drawback, and I think PER captures that, even if it isn't perfect when capturing good disruptive pressure defense.

@justanotherfan Seems that PERs doesn't value assists very much. Harris leading the team, almost 1 per game more than anyone else.

The ball moves a lot better with Harris in. Hopefully as other guys get more comfortable in the system they move it better, then there would barely be a reason to play Harris. Bill loves him but he would be better off the bench situationally.

@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

The ball moves a lot better with Harris in. Hopefully as other guys get more comfortable in the system they move it better, then there would barely be a reason to play Harris. Bill loves him but he would be better off the bench situational

Agree with your assessment.

Updated post UTEP

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Ochai and Braun playing at crazy levels right now

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Agbaji and Braun are playing at All-American levels right now. If they both keep this up and KU gets contributions from everyone else, this is a Final Four team. Those two can take a team deep into March, possibly to a stage on the first Monday in April.

Updated post Methzu blowout

Ochai now in #46 place on the all-time KU scoring list.

At his current rate he's on pace to land in 16th place before post-season play began. If KU won the Big-12 tourney & NCAA Championship he's on pace for 9th overall in scoring. Going to be fun tracking this

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I'm curious how Jalen's minutes will go moving forward. Self said he tried out how to run minutes in the Miz game. Preseason the guy most mentioned by Self was Jalen. I don't think he can find his game playing under a half of ball in games. Even though he hasn't stepped up yet I wonder if Self will show he has confidence in him by giving him more minutes. I expected him to be around 25+ by now.

I see a FF team if we see the following: Remy continue to meld in and give us positive play time... leadership figured out between him and Dajuan. Dave settle down in the paint (which he seems to be on his way to doing). And last, Jalen become a high minute player and hit his stride. Then we have really 5 guys who are all capable of putting up big game totals. Never reliant on just one or two guys carrying the load.

Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.

@BeddieKU23 I think his biggest issue is Och/CB are the same player archetype for this roster but much better. He would be much more interesting as the back-up 5 but neither party seems interested in that from what I was told.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.

Would love to know what his NBA feedback was. Feels like he was told he could be a "Point 4" or something because he is just getting the rebound and then sprinting up the floor with it like he's a 5th grader.

On the flip side, why is Bill not getting him post touches? Does he not have a post game? He's 6'8, surely he has developed some go-to post moves.

@Kcmatt7 He was pretty much told he isn't an NBA player.

@BShark I agree with this analysis unless he magically finds a .400+ shooting ability from 3.

@Kcmatt7 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BShark I agree with this analysis unless he magically finds a .400+ shooting ability from 3.

Kid needs to learn how to shoot from all 3 levels before thinking about his next career.

@BShark

Agree- Och & CB became playmakers in the offseason. Jalen's still left behind at the alter

@Kcmatt7 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.

Would love to know what his NBA feedback was. Feels like he was told he could be a "Point 4" or something because he is just getting the rebound and then sprinting up the floor with it like he's a 5th grader.

On the flip side, why is Bill not getting him post touches? Does he not have a post game? He's 6'8, surely he has developed some go-to post moves.

It's kind of funny because Jalen's in a hurry with the ball but usually has no end game with it. He's more like Dave in a lot of ways the more I think about it.

Haven't seen a post game from him. He's been mostly used away from the basket. I'll just continue to hope there's more he's going to show.

@BeddieKU23 right. If he doesn't start doing something soon what is the point of ever starting him?

@Marco because we need him to get better!

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco because we need him to get better!

I realize that... I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn't get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn't start playing better soon?

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco because we need him to get better!

I realize that... I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn't get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn't start playing better soon?

Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he's where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn't cutting it.

I'll say this bluntly, he's a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we've yet to see it.

If Jalen needs feedback on what his game is like just ask 16,300 witnesses to his every appearance in AFH.

Like many of you said... Jalen is competing with Och and CB for being a player skilled on the drive. But he is the potential "Magic 4" we need and has great potential at that slot because of the one area where he outperforms CB and Och... playing through contact! That's why he is our best rebounder.

I hope he takes a good hard look at Och's progress. Och has completely lifted his NBA stock this year. Jalen may not have the athleticism of Och... but players like Timme show how successful you can be with technique more than athleticism.

Jalen needs some work on his handles and midrange/rim game. Probably polishing on his trey shot, too.

There is a reason why Self hyped him so much a few weeks ago. I trust what he sees in his potential more than any of us. Jalen runs the floor as good or better than the rest of the team. He goes after rebounds, and he just doesn't have his scoring swagger back yet.

I suspect we will see him come on after Christmas. Extending practice time should help and Self can draw up more offense to include Jalen's abilities. He looks a bit lost out there right now.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco because we need him to get better!

I realize that... I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn't get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn't start playing better soon?

Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he's where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn't cutting it.

I'll say this bluntly, he's a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we've yet to see it.

I agree with you I really do, I just don't understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn't that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -bette 3 pathetic this yr what's happened?

@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco because we need him to get better!

I realize that... I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn't get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn't start playing better soon?

Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he's where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn't cutting it.

I'll say this bluntly, he's a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we've yet to see it.

I agree with you I really do, I just don't understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn't that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -better 3 pathetic this yr what's happened?

His overall numbers last year weren't good either, 41% FG, 31% from 3, 63% from the line. I dug even further into this. From the end of January to the end of the season Jalen was 46/117 from the field (39%) including 9 games of 33% shooting or less during that stretch.

So far he's struggled even more shooting the ball and that's a byproduct of his poor decision before the season started. He's pressed since coming back and probably has struggled coming off the bench. Self thinks the light is going to come on for him but its a waiting game so far. If he doesn't find some efficiency in his game I don't see a reason for him even playing the role he currently has.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Marco because we need him to get better!

I realize that... I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn't get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn't start playing better soon?

Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he's where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn't cutting it.

I'll say this bluntly, he's a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we've yet to see it.

I agree with you I really do, I just don't understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn't that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -better 3 pathetic this yr what's happened?

His overall numbers last year weren't good either, 41% FG, 31% from 3, 63% from the line. I dug even further into this. From the end of January to the end of the season Jalen was 46/117 from the field (39%) including 9 games of 33% shooting or less during that stretch.

So far he's struggled even more shooting the ball and that's a byproduct of his poor decision before the season started. He's pressed since coming back and probably has struggled coming off the bench. Self thinks the light is going to come on for him but its a waiting game so far. If he doesn't find some efficiency in his game I don't see a reason for him even playing the role he currently has.

Ya really poor numbers for sure , but even worse this year. - He was a good rebounds for us last year but just seems to be really pressing. We need him always a need for another scorer, cause you know and I know there WILL come a time CB and Oach both or one is just gonna be off , that's where we need him and Remy both to pick it up. You have mention in other threads/posts that after this yr you think Jalen is gone no matter what - I beleive that also. Let's just hope he gets his act together.

@jayballer67

Hopefully he has a breakout game coming up that gets him back on track.

Personally I think Jalen should stick around another year. With the roster the way its shaping up we are going to need him.

But the tea leaves certainly paint a different picture.

Serious question about Jalen: how long do you give a guy to come around? At what point do you risk his being a liability at a critical point in a crucial game just to "get him going"?

I heard one of the announcers on the Mizzou broadcast suggest that some guys are just better when they start. For me, a guy with Jalen's talent, or anyone at this level for that matter, should be able to produce no matter the role or the circumstances. I hope Bill continues to bring him off the bench until he shows us something and doesn't reward him with a starter's role just because he "should" be playing better or because he's supposedly better when he starts. Don't mean to pile on Jalen, but something is going on with him. You don't just forget how to put the ball in the hoop when you have D-1 talent ... do you?

Glad I'm not a coach.

@drgnslayr he needs to figure that out, and fast. He lulls behind the 3 point line far too much.

@tis4tim said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Serious question about Jalen: how long do you give a guy to come around? At what point do you risk his being a liability at a critical point in a crucial game just to "get him going"?

I heard one of the announcers on the Mizzou broadcast suggest that some guys are just better when they start. For me, a guy with Jalen's talent, or anyone at this level for that matter, should be able to produce no matter the role or the circumstances. I hope Bill continues to bring him off the bench until he shows us something and doesn't reward him with a starter's role just because he "should" be playing better or because he's supposedly better when he starts. Don't mean to pile on Jalen, but something is going on with him. You don't just forget how to put the ball in the hoop when you have D-1 talent ... do you?

Glad I'm not a coach.

That's where I'm coming from...

@tis4tim

It is a good question. Since we want Jalen to succeed and help the team the how long part is as long as it takes. He's coming off the bench so it's a bit different then if he was starting. It is an adjustment when your used to being out there starting and being relied on. He was a volume scorer last year with below avg shooting numbers and so far this year that hasn't changed, if anything his role has decreased his ability to make an impact. I was hoping we'd see an increase in efficiency from him especially in FG% and at the FT line. Hopefully he's getting up extra shots

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

It is a good question. Since we want Jalen to succeed and help the team the how long part is as long as it takes.

Thanks for the reply @BeddieKU23. I guess the deal for me is that he's been unable to get his mojo back so far even in low leverage situations against lesser talent. We all know the road to a conference title is going to be very difficult this season and do we really want to risk a "W" short term for some long-term benefit that may or may not arrive?

Aside from the Remy/Self battle of wills, the Jalen storyline is becoming an intriguing "problem" to watch. I only hope Jalen figures it out quick to make moot the question of whether or not to play him.

Last year, Jalen created his own offense. We had a team that lacked enough scoring. His numbers were okay considering he just made it all happen on his own. He needs to be integrated better into the offense. I don't see him at all integrated now.

@drgnslayr

Good point. But most of his issues center around not being able to put the ball in the hoop.

Jalen should be the back-up 5. Would solve so many issues. Play JCL over Mitch. Line-ups with Jalen and another big have been bad.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@drgnslayr

Good point. But most of his issues center around not being able to put the ball in the hoop.

And living only out on the 3 pt line.

@BeddieKU23

We are seeing none of the Jalen from last year... where he would drive hard in the paint. He just looks lost out there. And... he isn't hitting his shots. Sign of confidence issues.

Kind of wondering if he is in Self's "suffering box?" I have this feeling like there will come a day this year where he busts free and it will bring this team to a higher level.

Hope I'm right!

Jalens a guy who can be so valuable to this team without scoring the ball especially the way Och and CB are playing. I hope he starts concentrating the other aspects of the game and stops pressing so much offensively. Play his role and I believe things will turn around for him. He’s just too good to be this irrelevant

@drgnslayr

Confidence kills (at both ends of the spectrum). He's a kid still figuring it out. Year 3 and its still an issue.

Jalen's had some obstacles. Remember KU wasn't his first choice and he came here after Beilein B-lined to the NBA momentarily. Then he missed a whole year with the injury. Came back motivated (after rumors were he considered leaving) and surprised most of this fan-base how prepared he was to contribute. We don't beat some ranked teams last year without Jalen's outstanding play. The 2nd half of the season was a bit of a letdown for him and I don't think he's shaken it yet. I really thought we'd see a more mature Jalen on the court and so far that just hasn't happened. As I mentioned before and you did, if he has a game where the lid comes off the basket I think you see him turn it up a few notches. Saturday is a perfect day to get that rolling.

Maybe Self is grooming him to be that valuable "6th man" this year? Not sure Jalen is psyched for that role.

Think about what kind of weapon he could be at 6th man? Coming in around the 14 minute mark in the first half... both teams settled into a tone of play and then here comes this guy with high energy, grabbing every available rebound and then pushing the tempo up the court... then physically taking it to the hole.

@BeddieKU23 ... you may be on to something with that last post. He may be a very temperamental player that also may be a challenge to coach. I thought he would become a volume scorer... but true volume scorers all have bad memories on their last performances, especially the bad ones... even can't remember what they did earlier in the same game.

At this point, it seems his issue is more than missing the first few games. One thing... he definitely seems to be lacking confidence.

Gosh.. imagine we have 3 players averaging around 20 ppg?! That would be nuts and also would take even more pressure off Big Dave needing to put up numbers in the paint!

@drgnslayr

The maturation process for some just takes longer. Look at the transformation of Ochai and Christian this season. Like so many before them when they become upperclassmen and lock in. I was really hoping Jalen was going to be in that group. We'll see what happens. He's got to embrace the role he's in and keep grinding. That 6th man role is always a valuable one at KU.

Development of CB has effected Jalens playing time. Out worked?

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Development of CB has effected Jalens playing time. Out worked?

CB and Och took huge leaps, Jalen seems to have become worse somehow (though I think there is a mental aspect).

@BShark seriously can't figure it out. He hit a down slide last yr, before the covid. He knows there's no spot in the starting lineup. That's mental. Bust your butt outside of practice.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BShark Bust your butt outside of practice.

Instead his butt got busted! Sorry, sorry I’ll show myself out

@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Development of CB has effected Jalens playing time. Out worked?

CB and Och took huge leaps, Jalen seems to have become worse somehow (though I think there is a mental aspect).

I think he's uncomfortable, realizing that they're both more talented than he is. He's going to have to come off the bench as a sub 5 or 4, about 15 minutes per game tops. Zach deserves and needs some pt this season while getting ready for next.

@rockchalkwyo

Pity we don't have laugh emojis!

I'm definitely not checking Jalen off my list. I still have faith he will come on big this year. Partially, I hold on to Self's statement about how much quicker the team is with him in the lineup. However... I do think the team has been speeding up some without him on the floor.

Jalen is like any of these guys... regardless of athleticism.... if you want to be effective on offense, watch the Zags and how those guys cut to the rim when off-ball. He could be a total beast at this!

@drgnslayr said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

I'm definitely not checking Jalen off my list. I still have faith he will come on big this year. Partially, I hold on to Self's statement about how much quicker the team is with him in the lineup. However... I do think the team has been speeding up some without him on the floor.

Jalen is like any of these guys... regardless of athleticism.... if you want to be effective on offense, watch the Zags and how those guys cut to the rim when off-ball. He could be a total beast at this!

I get you, and he pushes the ball up the court, but is living (and not very well) out at the three point line.

With Dave at the 5, Braun and Ochai doing what they do and they both need to keep doing it, and Remy and JCL starting to come on and others also contributing where does that leave Jalen? For real? Can he out rebound Braun or Dave? Where will he position himself?

I am onboard with what @BShark said, he needs to be Dave's backup. Why? Because he needs to play inside, only occassionally drifting out. He cannot play alongside Dave, it hurts the flow of the team.

@Marco

I don't think he's a legit 5 defender unless we convert to an X-axis team... (not gonna happen).

Mitch is our 5 backup.

Jalen is our best rebounder.

If we flip to Self's new version of "hi-lo" then Jalen works fine... sort of like the Memphis team we beat in '08. Motion offense... dribble drive... feed the paint when it works. Starting to look like Self is figuring this out anyways. We don't win on a traditional hi-lo. Teams aren't really taking Dave as the ultimate threat and he can sometimes do more to clog the paint then be our best option in the paint. I don't want to trash Dave... he has received plenty of unwarranted heat already. Dave is good as long as we use him properly.

Having 4 perimeter players all capable of driving the paint sounds like a winning strategy to me. I guarantee you Mark Few would LOVEEEE to have our options!

Jalen can handle the 4 spot and have him basically opposite (along the baseline) with Och... and use Och for the backdoor alleyoops... both guys slashing towards the paint.... both guys popping out anywhere on the trey line... both guys cutting to the rim to take a feed (Zags style). Unlimited options.

We just can't have that offense where we put 4 guys on the perimeter and try to out-speed pass the defense. That's when we know we are flat (as has always been the case and probably half my rants on here throughout the years).

This has to be one of Bill's more entertaining teams to scheme offense around! Has to be!

Updated post SFA

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Updated post Oklahoma St win.

Points

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PER

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Kenpom

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Some interesting stats

KU had 49 dunks last year, they already have 51 in 13 games.

McCormack only makes 55% of his close 2's. Remy & Harris are also under 60% but they are also 6'0 tall.

Ochai should stop shooting long 2's, only hitting 30% clip. Remy shooting 57% on them so its a good shot for him.

Jalen Wilson shooting 73% on close 2's so maybe he should only shoot layups cause he can't make anything else.

The metrics have not been kind to KU this week.

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PER's- Since conference play 9 of 12 players have seen their PER drop several points.

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Och with over 300 points in 15 games. Heck of season for him so far.

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@BeddieKU23 Not really that surprising that PERs have dropped so much since conference play started. Our conference opponents, even OSU, are probably 3 of the 4 best teams we've played all season. Certainly the 3 best defensive teams. Our non-conference schedule revealed almost nothing meaningful about this team - other than we could lose to a 6 loss team comprised mostly of freshmen. Most years, we are near the top in Quad 1 wins. Not this year - I think we have just 2 or 3 at this point. Some teams have 10 or more.

@DCHawker

Lots of Quad 1 and 2 wins to get in conference play + Kentucky still on the books.

Will be interesting to see if PER's revert back up or this trend is something more concerning

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@DCHawker

Lots of Quad 1 and 2 wins to get in conference play + Kentucky still on the books.

Will be interesting to see if PER's revert back up or this trend is something more concerning

If the current play continues with a healthy Remy I will be concerned.

@BShark

Will he get healthy is certainly my question at this point.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BShark

Will he get healthy is certainly my question at this point.

Bill sounds... not optimistic about him coming back super soon.

@FarmerJayhawk :grimacing_face:

@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@DCHawker

Lots of Quad 1 and 2 wins to get in conference play + Kentucky still on the books.

Will be interesting to see if PER's revert back up or this trend is something more concerning

If the current play continues with a healthy Remy I will be concerned.

I wouldn't neccessarily be drooling about playing Kentucky this year. Night and Day from last year and we have No answer not even close for their inside guys this year

@jayballer67

Yeah Oscar. He might break the rebound record against us

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@jayballer67

Yeah Oscar. He might break the rebound record against us

very easily could nobody handle him

Shibway(lol) we need to pray🙏 He gets in foul trouble. He did a few times against us.

After a " Good for the Soul beatdown" here's some updated stats.

Ochai Agbaji is now #35th on the all-time scoring list halfway through his stellar senior season.

At his current scoring rate (20.6ppg) Ochai would be in #19 place by the end of the regular season just passing Kenny Gregory and a few shy of Jeff Boschee. An extended run in both the Big-12 tournament and NCAA tournament could see him jump all the way to #14 just shy of Devonte Graham, at his current scoring rate.

At any rate Agbaji has a good chance at cracking the Top 20 all-time. What an achievement that's in his sights after coming to KU as an unheralded recruit and even being red-shirting his freshman year for half that season. Ochai your a stud!!

Uptick in points for Wilson getting over 100 on the season.

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KU got back to pre- Iowa St numbers

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Updated after K-ST.

Och can score the rock!

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Jalen's PER has skyrocketed up lately. Och at an Elite level for a Guard

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Kenpom did not like our dramatic win against K-St especially defensively. Obviously we know we sucked on that end for a large stretch.

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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Updated after K-ST.

Och can score the rock!

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Jalen's PER has skyrocketed up lately. Och at an Elite level for a Guard

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Kenpom did not like our dramatic win against K-St especially defensively. Obviously we know we sucked on that end for a large stretch.

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Yeah 1.45 ppp for the first half is going to have an impact on overall defensive stats! Yikes. But I do think our defense is improving after that game believe it or not. That second half showed the team (and self) can get stops consistently when dialed in and with a sound game plan.

I’m wondering if less switching might do this team good on d. Just to turn up the individual pressure won players to stay engaged.

@benshawks08 I definitely think it is weird we don't do more things like have Harris deny their best player the ball like we did with Pack.

@Kcmatt7 Seems like maybe the team has struggled so much with the fundamentals Self values that perhaps there hasn't been as much focus on game planning for individuals/teams. I think having an active Dave in the paint can really help this team defensively. At least there'd be a big body jumping and flailing at lay up attempts.

I really do think they'll get it worked out by the end of the season. Not to the point where they are an elite defensive team, but a solid one none the less.

Kenpom rankings a bit weird this year. Only 2 top 10 defenses in the top 10 teams. And they are 10th and 8th. The fewest of any year.

3 would end up tying it, and there is a lot of season left. But it could be a sign of a wild tourney...

@Kcmatt7

Interesting that 7 of the top 10 offenses are in the Top 10 rankings.

Arizona sitting at #3 after getting completely clobbered last night by #10 UCLA. Really Zona didn't even look competitive. So are the rankings way off?

Updated after the Tech Win. Och sits 16 pts away from tying Mario Chalmers for 30th all time on the scoring list

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PER's

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Kenpom really hates our defense

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Updated for Kentucky/Iowa St

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Updated post Baylor spanking

Ochai sits at #30 all time. He needs 16 points tonight to pass Marcus Morris, 18 to pass Adonis Jordan & 20 to pass Richard Scott.

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PER's

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Win was good for Kenpom.

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@BeddieKU23 Do the points totals include NCAA & Conference Tournament games?

Just something to think about, Och missed time as a freshman (thinking he would redshirt). And then he missed an NCAA tournament run. Plus last years conference tournament got called early right? They only played 30 games. Pre-covid schedules were at least 35 games.

I mean he has easily been screwed out of 22 games. He should probably have like an additional 150-200 points. Not sure where that would put him, but just throwing it out there.

@Kcmatt7

Yes this incorporates all games played for Och. He has had an unlucky run of it when you think of games missed due to things that were not in his control.

If we took his 13 ppg career average x 22 games to his current total that would be 1356 + 286 = would put him #15 all time going into tonight's game. It's a big difference that he doesn't have those extra games

@BeddieKU23 I really think the bigger flaw for KU's Kenpom ranking this year is the lack of versatility in the B12.

Basically screws them over because a good defensive showing against the 100th ranked offense doesn't help them at all. Most conferences have a variety of tempos/styles. B12 this year is maybe the most boring conference in the country.

@Kcmatt7

Yeah style of play in the league this year is bad. I think defenses are better this year because everyone has 25 year olds up and down the lineup.

8th is about right besides when we play like we did Saturday then obviously we are capable of being ranked higher in metrics/polls. If this past week was the start of one of those KU runs we may see a rise up on everything. We'll see.

I noticed on Kempom that we are now ranked 3rd in toughest schedule.

@Kcmatt7 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BeddieKU23 I really think the bigger flaw for KU's Kenpom ranking this year is the lack of versatility in the B12.

Basically screws them over because a good defensive showing against the 100th ranked offense doesn't help them at all. Most conferences have a variety of tempos/styles. B12 this year is maybe the most boring conference in the country.

I'm wondering if this will be a problem for KU come tournament time. Rankings don't really matter but the fact that KU seems to play the same type of team on repeat for the entire conference season may leave us vulnerable to different styles of play (see Kentucky game). Sure it's good to go against tough defenses all the time and quality opponents all around but the diversity of styles, tempos, athleticism, etc. is really lacking in league.

Just did some scrolling on this thread and interesting that Dave has been pretty consistent in PER for most of the year after a couple of bad games to start. Och has come back to earth a bit while still being pretty dang good. I'd have thought Och would have been leading this team in all the PER stats all year but that doesn't seem to be the case. Did we undervalue Dave when he wasn't passing the eye test?

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Just did some scrolling on this thread and interesting that Dave has been pretty consistent in PER for most of the year after a couple of bad games to start. Och has come back to earth a bit while still being pretty dang good. I'd have thought Och would have been leading this team in all the PER stats all year but that doesn't seem to be the case. Did we undervalue Dave when he wasn't passing the eye test?

FYI his per was 27 last yr. It's easier for bigs to have higher numbers. Och having an elite level showing for the most part up 7 pts from last yr. Brauns numbers also way higher this season, almost 7 as well.

Personally you can take all the Ken Prom BS and flush it down the toilet. What matters is who wins and who loses. My opinion only.

Ken Pom is not perfect by any means but it’s the best thing, I think, out there that accounts pace of each game and opponents vrs just the final score.

@rockchalkwyo Statistics don't wear a uniform. There is so much that statistics can't cover, that to me, makes them pretty much worthless. They have no way of knowing the emotional aspects of a particular game. Do they know anything about the injury status of a team. So many variables that can't be quantified that it makes gauging a team virtually impossible. I agree that statistics on a team make for an interesting debate but I sure as hell not going to bet my money on them.

@jessejayhawk you’re not wrong. I really do see where you’re coming from. It to me just gives a rough and more importantly, free gauge as to how the team is doing. You’re absolutely right that it doesn’t account for a lot of important variables.

Is there anything out there that does? That’s also free?

@rockchalkwyo Good point!

@jessejayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Personally you can take all the Ken Prom BS and flush it down the toilet. What matters is who wins and who loses. My opinion only.

Insightful comment on an analytics thread

@Kcmatt7 Under the SNARK system, that comment was actually highly rated, losing points only at the end for acknowledging it was opinion instead of insisting on it being a fact (often forgotten: SNARK algorithm gives more for spelling out F A C T). Your comment scored lower but still in the top ten.

@mayjay too bad Jesse doesn't care about your stats or ratings. I on the other hand, will take this rating, analyze it, and see how I can do better in the future.

@Kcmatt7 On further review, our analysts discovered that improper grammar, syntax and punctuation in the other post were overlooked due to heavy use of alcohol by the initial rater ("Personally you..."). Accordingly, SNARK has now placed your comment at the top of the heap, and great praise is due you!

Any who…. KU is still 8 in kenpom.

3 offense previous #3

36 defense previous #30

That wasn’t a bad loss now that I have a day of whining under my belt.

@rockchalkwyo said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Any who…. KU is still 8 in kenpom.

3 offense previous #3

36 defense previous #30

That wasn’t a bad loss now that I have a day of whining under my belt.

It wasn't a bad loss from the perspective of losing a close game to a ranked team on their home court.

But from the perspective that it's most points UT has scored in more than 2 months (and against UT - Rio Grande Valley or something) - that our end of each half execution was abysmal - that we missed crucial FTs in crunch time - that we committed numerous unforced TOs - that we gave up numerous to ORBs to a team that isn't particularly good at rebounding - and given that we could have easily picked up a good road win and gotten a big leg up on the B12 title - it was a bad loss.....

Updated post Texas Letdown. Added Torvik, Massey Ratings, Bracket Matrix projection for March.

Points

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PER's

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Kenpom, Torvik, Massey, Bracket Matrix

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Added the Sagarin Ratings

@BeddieKU23 Basically all of this is telling the same story. The O is elite, the D is pretty good.

Something positive here - this team has better metrics than the 17-18 FF team that I think plays a pretty similar run and gun style. That team did okay... I think they were slightly better offensively (everyone on the floor could score). And they had a Doke who was an okay rim protector that season. But this team has two NBA wings. Jalen is a future pro. Dave is a future pro. (Not NBA but pro somewhere). So this team definitely has enough talent to still make a run. Especially if they are playing their best ball here in February like they seem to be.

@Kcmatt7

Yupp we are better then most out there. Need to stay healthy or get some guys healthy again.

Purdue had a Texas game, too. Only they got walloped:

"Just two days after reclaiming a share of the Big Ten lead with a convincing 16-point win over No. 13 Illinois, No. 3 Purdue turned in a dud on Thursday night in an 82-58 loss at Michigan. The outcome ends a six-game winning streak for the Boilermakers (21-4, 10-4 Big Ten) and gives Michigan's NCAA Tournament resume a much-needed boost."

Purdue's defense is 126th on Kenpom now. I thought Iowa from last season would be the worst defense for a top 10 offense we'd see in our lifetimes.

But just one year later Matt Painter has quite possibly the biggest disparity between offense and defense in CBB history. It is really insane.

Updated post Oklahoma/Oklahoma St wins

Ochai in #27th place all time. Dave creeping towards 1,000, needs 48 points to get to #62 all-time.

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PER's-

Zach for MVP LOL

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Kenpom & Torvik

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Massey, Sagarin, Bracket Matrix

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Zac is a bad ass. I tweeted him when he first signed, and he tweeted back, which was surprising. So happy he was the first big off the bench last night. Unleash the...ZACKKEN!

This is like the exact thing we needed in order to keep both him and KJ I think. I was a little bit worried that we would lose one of them, but I'm hoping this is a good sign.

I admit I was HARSH on Zach early in the year. But he keeps putting up good numbers, and good things happen with him on the floor. At this point I'm really hopeful that him and KJ both hang around and anchor the front court. I think we are going to be spoiled next season.

Zach is instant offense. He starts here next season imo.

I think he got overlooked a bit coming in because of the expected freshman growing pains under Self. He needs to continue to work on defense & his body in the offseason but there's no doubt he's a very skilled player. So happy he's back healthy enough to play because these are valuable minutes. I think the Zach/Yesufu bench rotation has elevated our ceiling.

@BeddieKU23 When he got the lob bucket last night, it just felt like a big moment to me. Where he showed he was big and strong enough to push another big man around. I'm sure Bill was pleased

@Kcmatt7

Yeah that was a really solid play from him. There is tremendous upside to his offensive skill if he gets that lower body good enough to bang in the post when needed. He really is an offseason away from being a duel inside/out threat on the regular

This is never going to be a “Self hates Zach” narrative. Bill’s pants fit weird when he thinks about Bobby and Zach anchoring this squad for the next few years.

@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

This is never going to be a “Self hates Zach” narrative. Bill’s pants fit weird when he thinks about Bobby and Zach anchoring this squad for the next few years.

Yeah the word has always been super positive about Zach. Practices the right way etc...

I think we might have seen this sooner if not for the toe injury.

Updated post WVU win

Och hits 500 points and Dave 24 points from 1,000!!

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Kenpom, Torvik, Massey, Sagarin all liked the win.

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WVU offense that game would make any defense look good!

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

WVU offense that game would make any defense look good!

Offensive offense

47th to 28th . I'll take it...

@Jethro said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

47th to 28th . I'll take it...

Trending decently in February so far. Only giving up 64 ppg this month with 2 more to go.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Trending decently in February so far. Only giving up 64 ppg this month with 2 more to go.

KSU won’t crack 60 tomorrow. Book it.

@tis4tim said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Trending decently in February so far. Only giving up 64 ppg this month with 2 more to go.

KSU won’t crack 60 tomorrow. Book it.

As long as Pack doesn't have 35 again I'd agree

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

As long as Pack doesn’t have 35 again I’d agree

I’d wager Bill is challenging Harris’ manhood even now in regards to guarding Pack. He’ll be lucky to score half that tomorrow.

@BeddieKU23

Thanking you again.

@tis4tim

Last year he scored 10 pts on 4-10 shooting & 2-5 from 3 in Allen.

@BeddieKU23

Pack season avg 17.1 I'll take that though 42% on threes is a bit scary.

@Zabudda

He's a very good shooter. He can get his as long as nobody else does

KU #5 in the AP Poll. Baylor #10. It's on this weekend.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@Jethro said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

47th to 28th . I'll take it...

Trending decently in February so far. Only giving up 64 ppg this month with 2 more to go.

Our rating hasn't improved much though right? Our ranking has, but the rating has pretty much held at 94? Meaning teams in front of us are sucking and we are holding serve.

94.2 d rating is 28th this year, but would have been tied for 44th a year ago. Just something to chew on

@Kcmatt7

I haven't tracked it on an individual game to game basis but believe its trending slightly better in February from what I recall when I update it after every game. I could be wrong there though. I'll start tracking our actual ratings starting now to see if we see any meaningful trend there. They are giving up 4 less ppg then the previous 3 months so even if the metrics don't say it this defense has given up less points so far in February. Obviously we need to finish this week out to have all data there

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Some metric tourney breakdown stuff in the video. Apparently we don’t have a shot at the title…

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Some metric tourney breakdown stuff in the video. Apparently we don’t have a shot at the title…

As long as we're in the tourney, we have a shot. That's good enough for me.

@tis4tim Same! First time for everything! And I just refuse to believe Texas has a better shot than we do.

@Kcmatt7 Just a thought- maybe our great offense leads to worse defense. If you go back and look at our worst defense, it was Doke, Devonte, Malik, ... that crew. They were also top 5 offensively. And they went to the Final Four. I don't think we have to be Top 5 in defense to make a run. I know everyone is worried that our defense will let us down, but the other side of the coin is we've learned how to score against the number 1 ranked defensive schedule in America. And we're 22-4, leading the best conference in the nation by 2 games. That's strong as horseradish.

@Jethro I’m just really pointing out that while it looks like the defense has improved by rankings, might not actually be the case.

I think this team is capable of a FF run for sure

Ochai passed Wilt Chamberlain last night for 26th place all-time on the scoring list.

With 4 games left in the regular season Ochai is on pace to be in #21st place all-time passing Drew Gooden.

From there it's realistic that he could pass Calvin Thompson, Kenny Gregory, Jeff Boschee & Tyshawn Taylor at his current scoring average in the Big-12 tournament putting him #17 place heading into the NCAA Tourney.

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PER's. Yesufu & Wilson saw decent sized bumps for this late in the season.

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Analytics liked this win. Now 3rd overall in Bracket Matrix. Offense went up on both Kenpom/Torvik while D slightly down. Kenpom overall rating slightly up and trending towards the 2011-12 squad that made the finals.

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Updated post Baylor letdown.

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Och needs 7 pts to pass Brandon Rush for #25th place. Dave is 9 points from 1,000 in his career. CB within reach of 1,000 depending on how post season tournaments go.

PER's

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If KU plays 8 more games (3 regular season, 2 in Big XII tourney, 3 in NCAA) CB should get to 1000 this year. He needs just 118 points, so if he gets 15 ppg, that gets him there.

For Agbaji, if he gets 8 more games, he probably lands somewhere between Wayne Simien (1593 points) and Mark Randall (1627 points). A long postseason could maybe get Agbaji within striking distance of Kevin Pritchard (1692 points), but that would almost certainly require a trip to the Big 12 title game and a trip to the Final Four to give him extra games.

No matter what, it's unlikely Agbaji catches Devonte Graham (1750 points), but he should settle nicely into the top 20 all time. That's a pretty great career by any measure.

@justanotherfan

A bit unlucky too since he redshirted half a year and missed the 2020 post season. There's no telling how many points he'd have under slightly different outcomes

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@justanotherfan

A bit unlucky too since he redshirted half a year and missed the 2020 post season. There's no telling how many points he'd have under slightly different outcomes

Ochai missed 14 games due to redshirting and averaged 8.5 ppg that year so probably somewhere around 120 points from his freshman year and he missed up to 9 games 2 years ago averaging 10 ppg. So ballpark would probably be around 200 more points if Ochai played a full slate each of his first 2 seasons.

Those extra games could've had Ochai challenging Frank Mason and Sherron Collins to be in the top 5 all time scorers at KU.

Updated for end of regular season

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Updated after West Virginia blowout

Ochai is 16 points away from the Top 20 all-time scoring list. He sits in #21st place with 1,532 points and passed 600 points for the season yesterday. He needs 4 3's to pass Svi for 4th all-time in made 3 pointers.

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Thank you your royal nerdness!
Looks like we have a bit of work left to complete.

@Zabudda

Yesterday's game was helpful on the numbers

@BeddieKU23

It's probably harder to move the ratings this late i'm guessing.

Where does this current team fall in the Self era on Kenpom?
The two teams (one above, one below) with similar Kenpom ratings lost in 2nd round & Sweet 16.

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Now if we compare which teams compare similar to this years squad via Offense & Defensive rank

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Those 3 teams lost in the 2nd round, Elite 8 & Final 4. Interesting stuff. Let's hope they got a 2017-18 run and further in them

@Zabudda

I would imagine so, yesterday's game was almost 3/4 of a pt improvement in overall rating so interesting at the least.

A good update, updating for after the Big-12 Tournament win and earning another #1 seed!!!!

Some significant milestones on the horizon for KU players the more games we play. Ochai is about 100 points off Frank Mason's single season record for points under Self. He sits in #18th place all time on the scoring list, will very likely pass Tyshawn Taylor for #17th on Thursday & needs 24 to pass Wayne Simien in 16th. 14th place is attainable and hopefully he gets there.

Christian Braun is only 49 points away from 1,000 points in his Jr year. He's already ahead of Ochai's pace (Och had 920 coming into this year) so he's set up extremely well if he comes back for his Sr year to have one of those seasons that get's him into the Top 20 all-time as well.

Remy Martin is 71 pts away from 2,000 for his career. The way he scored in KC makes this feat attainable for him. Remy is starting to play like the preseason Big-12 POY he was tabbed to be.

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Positive movement on the Analytics

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The past KU teams that this squad compares the best too. Same as last update. We'll see what happens

A little surprised our d numbers didn’t move a little more than that. Eye test definitely felt like the defense was significantly better in the big 12 tournament than we’ve seen all year (minus the Baylor game at Allen).

Mitch has been very good for us the last part of the season. His injury sucks in a big way and im worried he wont be able to contribute 100% i would be ok with resting him as much as possible early in the tourney if we are afforded that luxury. Of course, same concerns for Dave.

@approxinfinity

I'd like to see Mitch at least test out the knee Thursday and see what level of comfort he's got. Should be able to coast by in Game 1 without him but the 2nd round game no doubt we'll need his experience

KU ends the regular season #3 in the AP Poll. Let's finish #1

Updated for the Texas Southern blowout!!!!

Och needs 13 points to pass Wayne Simien for #16th. After that he needs 48 points to get to #15.

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Kenpom rating is rising with every game. Getting towards a slew of teams that made the Elite 8 or finals. This team is playing its best basketball in March!!

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Och sits in #16th place all-time after passing Wayne Simien. He is now 34 points away from #15 place. Come on Och have some big games!

Christian Braun needs 22 points for 1000. As I stated already if Braun returns for his senior year he's setup to finish in the Top 20. Already ahead of Och at the same point of their Jr years.

Big Dave is now tied for #47th all-time on the scoring list. He's got a chance to move up a few more spots before the end of this season.

Remy reaching 2000 points is now within real reach. Just 36 points away from reaching that incredible scoring feat.

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Kenpom rating has been rising. Now the #9th best rating in the Self era. Torvik seems to like us a little more right now.

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Just looking at KU's road to the FF via Kenpom

They get to play the 4th worst team remaining in the field. And then they get to play one to the winners of the two teams who are 2nd and 3rd to last remaining in the field.

Nobody has an easier road to the FF than KU. Almost as if the basketball Gods are making this up to us for 2020. Really, really hope this team takes advantage of this. What a gift.

@Kcmatt7

It's hard to not look ahead with how our bracket has shaped up. Very excited and confident we can get there

Imagine how much KP/Torvik would like us if we had March Remy all year. Lol.

@BShark

If things play out the way we want them to its probably a good thing everything that's happened, happened. It's clear Remy is out to prove something, he's got a big chip on his shoulder right now. We may not have had that going for us with different circumstances.

Fair point. He has been balling out hard.

@BShark Harris is good at getting the offense going, while Remy is good at jump-starting it if we sputter. Cannot afford any more Och no-shows in the first few mins.

@mayjay said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@BShark Harris is good at getting the offense going, while Remy is good at jump-starting it if we sputter. Cannot afford any more Och no-shows in the first few mins.

Och did this at times last year to - you wouldn't even know he was on the floor - -him and Christan both. If we ar going to moe forward like you said we need all hands on deck

Felt like maybe this belonged here. 🐦 View Tweet?s=21

So yes, teams do seem to get hot from 3 against Kansas more than other teams.

It’s also interesting to me that the programs at the top of this list are traditionally very successful programs. Obviously playing more tournament games provides more opportunity for this type of thing to happen but wonder if there’s something to less successful teams applying the chuck threes and pray strategy.

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Felt like maybe this belonged here. 🐦 View Tweet?s=21

So yes, teams do seem to get hot from 3 against Kansas more than other teams.

It’s also interesting to me that the programs at the top of this list are traditionally very successful programs. Obviously playing more tournament games provides more opportunity for this type of thing to happen but wonder if there’s something to less successful teams applying the chuck threes and pray strategy.

Interesting. The obvious questions is whether those teams are just getting "hot" against us - we're just that unlucky - or that our defensive scheme is the issue. That we don't put as much emphasis on defending the arc or ball pressure or denial for the opponents best shooters? Strikes me that is has to be a least some of the latter - too long a timeframe and too many instances to just be bad luck...

There has been some rumblings in the analytics side of college basketball that 3 point shooting % is largely unpredictable and random and that teams can really only impact how many ATTEMPTS are allowed against them. So this stat to me shows a little bit of bad luck and some of our defensive scheming troubles.

KU used to hang its hat on forcing teams to shoot less than 40% for a game. This meant taking away layups and forcing teams to shoot from further away from the basket. This worked as a defensive strategy and won KU a Title in 2008 largely on the back of that stiff interior defense. KU fans LOVE a rim protector! We know when we have one and can tell when it's missing. But the game changed a lot after 2008 because of one person. Steph Curry. Players have gotten A LOT better at scoring from far away and every high school gym is full of guys unafraid to chuck it from DEEP. It's made it to the women's game with Clark from Iowa. Many people care more about the three point contest than the dunk contest. This is one area where I feel Self has been slow to adjust. He's adjusted it somewhat on the offensive side of the ball and can be heard in press conferences talking about wanting his teams to shoot more from 3. But I haven't seen or heard that same focus on the defensive end. Switching 4 has started to address it but still hasn't made too much of an impact as it allows teams to get whatever matchup they want inside or outside. I don't know the solution for this but it would be interesting to see what teams are REALLY good at limiting teams 3PAs and how exactly they accomplish that.

@DCHawker I would wonder statistically if that really is too long of timeframe or too many instances because the NCAA tournament is just such a small sample size. It is at MOST 6 games in a 35 game schedule and usually more like 2-4 games for teams like Kansas (and the others atop that list) and 0-2 for most other teams.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/518 ↗

Looks like teams to study would be Iowa State, Gonzaga (third on Jesse's list of teams this happens to the most) and Baylor. Their 3pa totals for the year are somewhere in the mid to high 600s while ours is mid 700s. Houston is an odd team that allows a TON (over 800) but at a low percentage (under 30). Kansas is fairly close to Houston percentage wise only being a percentage point or 2 worse but that makes a big difference over the course of a season in total makes.

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/518 ↗

Looks like teams to study would be Iowa State, Gonzaga (third on Jesse's list of teams this happens to the most) and Baylor. Their 3pa totals for the year are somewhere in the mid to high 600s while ours is mid 700s. Houston is an odd team that allows a TON (over 800) but at a low percentage (under 30). Kansas is fairly close to Houston percentage wise only being a percentage point or 2 worse but that makes a big difference over the course of a season in total makes.

At the same number of 3FGA as Houston, KU would've only allowed 13 more makes so not necessarily a big issue as that's only about 0.4 ppg more at this point.

@benshawks08 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/518 ↗

Looks like teams to study would be Iowa State, Gonzaga (third on Jesse's list of teams this happens to the most) and Baylor. Their 3pa totals for the year are somewhere in the mid to high 600s while ours is mid 700s. Houston is an odd team that allows a TON (over 800) but at a low percentage (under 30). Kansas is fairly close to Houston percentage wise only being a percentage point or 2 worse but that makes a big difference over the course of a season in total makes.

ISU’s strategy is to hand check everyone on the line and force the refs to call them all 😂

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Shotquality.com numbers. Providence the luckiest team in America (Kenpom agrees). Has KU as the 6th luckiest team. Basically, Providence is BY FAR the luckiest team this year. Just feels like something has to give here.

I watched the Nova at Providence game, and the Friars are not very good at defending. They had to go to zone because Nova was shredding them up. They definitely have some good scorers in Watson and Bynum. Nova doesn't run, which allowed the Friars to send bodies crashing for rebounds. They won't have that luxury with us. I think it will be a close game at half, and we pull away with a double digit win.

@Jethro

Say this into existence!

Updated post Weekend games. We are Final 4 bound and how sweet it is!

Ochai needs 9 points to reach #15 place on the all-time scoring list. Right now Och sits 3rd in the Self era for points in a season (699) trailing Frank Mason (753) & Dedric Lawson (700). Incredible season.

Other milestones

Christian Braun needs 4 points to reach 1,000 for his career.

Remy Martin needs 4 points to reach 2,000 points for his career.

David McCormack sits in #46th place all-time on the scoring list.

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Updated going into the Championship Game. Let's bring it HOME!!

Ochai sits in #15th place all-time & would need a Wilt Chamberlain performance to get to #14th at this point. Incredible career regardless.

David sits in #45 place with a chance to move up 1 or 2 spots with another monster game.

Braun cracked 1,000 points

Remy needs 1 point tonight for 2,000.

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Kenpom rating jumped significantly with the Nova win.

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Feel like all the stats and PERs and data go out the window tonight. Anything can happen in one game. We are the better team on paper but none of that matters if they end up making more baskets than us tonight! Do think it's fitting that Big Dave is at the top of that list as presumably the most important player on this roster. When he plays well we are just so tough to beat.

Och finally had his hot shooting night I'd been waiting for all season going 6-7 from 3 but unfortunately didn't combine that with his more steady all around type games he's put in over the course of the year. Here's hoping he comes up big tonight with 30 plus scored from EVERYWHERE not just behind the arc. I really want him to be the MOP of the final four but I'd settle for Dave getting 20 and 10 and taking it away from him.

@benshawks08

With PER's its easier for Big's to have higher numbers. But agree stats go out the door with this game. It's mano vs mano and hopefully our dudes are better then theirs

@BeddieKU23 Are rebounds just over weighted in the formula? If so you'd think Jalen would have gone up more in the last half of the season.

@benshawks08

boards, bigs also tend to shoot more 2's etc which lead to higher FG % on their usage etc. Dave's PER is actually lower then last year but obviously we wouldn't change a thing

@BeddieKU23 Or is it more that most of Dave's numbers come in smaller amounts of minutes on the floor? He rarely plays 30+ minutes...

@BeddieKU23 I figured it would account for effective FG% and give that extra boost for 3s. Does it not?

@benshawks08

There's a bunch that goes into the calculation but it certainly appears Bigs can have much higher numbers then guards can sustain

@benshawks08

The Player Efficiency Rating (PER) is a per-minute rating developed by ESPN.com columnist John Hollinger. In John's words, "The PER sums up all a player's positive accomplishments, subtracts the negative accomplishments, and returns a per-minute rating of a player's performance

As the PER largely measures offensive performance -while the calculation seems pretty complex-, it has also limitations on the defensive side. Its creator, Hollinger freely admits that two of the defensive statistics it incorporates blocks and steals can produce a distorted picture of a player’s value and that PER is not a reliable measure of a player’s defensive acumen.

Found this: https://hackastat.eu/en/learn-a-stat-player-efficiency-rating-per/ ↗ it is VERY complicated to say the least.

Need updates @BeddieKU23 :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

Need updates @BeddieKU23 :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Yes where do we rank on the metrics? Will Newell vote us #1 now??

@FarmerJayhawk

Well even as the Champs Kenpom said we are 3rd best. Gotta love it

Hubert Davis said he was told KU was hard to defend because you can defend some but you need to stop them all and that's not gonna happen. Self thought five minutes into the second half there was no way we could defend like this for the rest of the game but we did. I think it was Barkley who said Kansas was the only team who could have won like we did because every player hit big shots. Jalen, Remy, Och, Christian and Dave just took turns keeping us in it until it was all over. Juan and Och had 5 TO's and everyone else three total but Juan had three steals and Och had one. NC got numerous second or third chance shots but were guarded and blocked just enough to limit their success. Bacot and Davis had six offensive rebounds each but were just a combined 8 out of 30 from the floor. We won this puppy because we were clearly the better team and came up clutch over and over. We gave them a huge gift and then took it back.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@FarmerJayhawk

Well even as the Champs Kenpom said we are 3rd best. Gotta love it

Lolz. Sure the best team doesn’t always win the title but it’s hilarious he still won’t vote the champs #1. We got the rings!

@FarmerJayhawk LOVING the new avatar

@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@FarmerJayhawk LOVING the new avatar

Thank you my dude

Final update for the season, WE ARE THE CHAMPS. It will never get old.

Ochai Agbaji ends his storied career at #15 on the All-Time Scoring list. Whenever his Jersey is retired I'll be there.

CB in 61st place after his Jr year. If he returns he'd have a chance to be in the Top 20 in scoring all-time.

David McCormack sits in #45th place all-time. If he used his covid year another that could end in the Top 20.

Remy got his 2,000 career points in a KU uniform. Remy the legend!

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Our rating actually dropped on Kenpom & Torvik for winning the Championship. Can't make this stuff up. As always analytics are just a tool.

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Best team in the country. Every stinking team we beat was on a winning streak but that streak ended just like we had over the years. We will always remember the Legendary Remy. And this title gives me the best feeling. Coach Self said he fell more connected to this team than any other. Next year will be very interesting and I hope we get to see Zach flourish and watch KJ become the shut down defender and the El Kabonging heir. BobbyP has received accolades from Self just like JWil did or pretty close anyway. I can see us losing seven players. Ochai, Dave, Mitch, Remy, JCL, Christian and Jalen. In the last mock draft I saw before the title game Och #13 and CB #33. It will take a great coaching staff to get us ready for a repeat run. What will the starting five look like? IDK but we may go seven + deep.

@BeddieKU23

Thanks again.

Wild stat here. First team in the KP era to win a natty and have the #1 SoS 🐦 View Tweet?s=21&t=ue-ldGl7FBwPclnqmp77_Q

@FarmerJayhawk big 12, Texas last

@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

@FarmerJayhawk big 12, Texas last

Wow good catch! I didn’t notice, but that’s wild

🐦 View Tweet?s=20&t=kvWK4VcavGkYxIAjsEhAiQ

Furthermore, #KUBball finished the season with a 16 wins against Quadrant One opponents. Five more than any other team in America. Three more than Baylor last year.

Just a ridiculously tough team.