I know this is probably stupid and is definitely a knee-jerk reaction to 1 game, but a little part of me wants Yesufu to start taking Remy's minutes. I know Remy is probably the better player but it seems like we need Yesufu's defense more than we need Remy's offense. Thoughts? Am I as crazy as I feel?
whispers start them both
@FarmerJayhawk Who would you sit out of the current starters? Which 2?
@FarmerJayhawk wait a second I thought Joe had a lucky break out stretch last year, we donāt see practice and he doesnāt get the defense or offense.
Why the sudden change of heart?
Also - I agree.......healthy Remy and Joe should start and Dave or Wilson is 6th man. If not then Harris and Joe.
Surprised you donāt want Harris to start at all.
@kuballin10 said in Yesufu and Remy:
@FarmerJayhawk wait a second I thought Joe had a lucky break out stretch last year, we donāt see practice and he doesnāt get the defense or offense.
Why the sudden change of heart?
Also - I agree.......healthy Remy and Joe should start and Dave or Wilson is 6th man. If not then Harris and Joe.
Surprised you donāt want Harris to start at all.
Not sudden at all. Iāve been on the start Yes train since forever. Thereās a difference between what I hear/think will happen and what I want to happen.
@tundrahok said in Yesufu and Remy:
@FarmerJayhawk Who would you sit out of the current starters? Which 2?
Juan, I think heās better suited as a change of pace guard. And Jalen. With Yes and Remy we need less of his point forward ability. Weād sacrifice some rebounding, but I can live with that. Against some particular matchups where we have to control the tempo, Iād start him at the 5. Really get out and go.
Iām down. Iām also down with KJ at the 5 in stretches if you want to bump everyone up and take Remy or Yes out depending on the hot hand. That gives you more boards without sacrificing speed or athleticism
Gotta say, I'm pretty fond of rebounds. If Wilson's back to his old form, from late last year, it's hard to give those up.
You all are crazy!
@FarmerJayhawk feel free to reference some older posts.
Ever since I came here stating Self completely mismanaged this roster and isnāt getting the most out of the team you and bshark and a few others just berated me.
I didnāt kneel at the alter of self because Iāve seen him do this before ....system players he trusts over the better player.
I said Remy came in and yes, heās not good defensively but he scores to make up for it. Self decided he was gonna help his game by making him pass and trying to only focus on defense literally stripping any though of offensive game. Definite screw up. I mean remy was what all American and pac 12 player of the year twice and he comes here and looks baaaddddd (prior to injury).
Iāve said Joe showed his ceiling against the same USC team our guards couldnāt even get a shot off and were scared as crap. Oh no, itās drake, he didnāt start, reports heās not picking things up, blah blah.
Feel free to outline where in old posts you advocated for Remy being coached better and Joe playing over Harris.
@BShark said in Yesufu and Remy:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Yesufu and Remy:
whispers start them both
Imagine Bill ever benching Juan.
Bill favoring Juan will hold us every year he is here. Juanās a great kid but not starting KU level guard.
He hit some running 1 handers yesterday and played some great off ball defense but his handle is so lose just watch him. When someone picks him up full court he palms it terribly and we initiate the offense 35 feet from the basket just horrible. Everyone was taught in high school that isnāt gonna work.
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Me, in green, on May 17th. Pardon my French lol
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Me, in green. July 5.
July 8 [post #323337]
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Its obvious to me and has been obvious for a while that Harris should have minutes cut significantly. We can start whoever, its total minutes that matter, but we need players in there that can attack the opponent and can score. Then again, even if we have the right players on the floor, we need the coaching to allow the players to play in attack mode by driving the lane and to play fast in transition.
@tundrahok said in Yesufu and Remy:
Gotta say, I'm pretty fond of rebounds. If Wilson's back to his old form, from late last year, it's hard to give those up.
The way Wilson is playing right now he needs 30 mpg. Especially with how poor of a rebounder Dave is at times. But I do think there is some logic to playing him at the 5 for a least a few stretches.
When you've gone on a 5 minute scoring drought, how do we not put in a 5 guard lineup? Change the tempo. Change the pressure on D. Force the other team to either have a 5 man on a guard or change their lineup.
We have the guys to be able to do that, but we haven't seen it basically all season.
I think you haven't seen Wilson at the 5 at all is because of the defense. Puts a lot of pressure on Wilson to guard guys bigger then him when he's barely an avg defender as it is. He sure can rebound as good as anyone down on the block but my guess is that's the biggest reason we don't see it. On offense it would make sense especially if you watched Mitch in the Iowa St game get the ball in that top of the key/free throw line area and immediately his only action is to turn sideways to hand the ball back off to a guard. Dave absolutely killed ISU's strategy on defense by being able to hit that midrange jumper.
@BeddieKU23 a couple more feet and a few of them buckets wouldāve been a 3. Could you imagine, Dave with a 3 game? Bill would NEVER!
@BeddieKU23 I think the flip side of this argument is that it forces the other team's 5 to guard away from the basket.
In games where Dave is the best big man on the floor, obviously this isn't the best strategy.
In games like UK (or Oregon or USC) where the opponent's big man is giving it to you regardless of who is guarding him, AND clogging up the lane with a long wingspan, you should just play 5 out. Pull that big guy out of the lane and open up the ability to drive for the other guards. Just front the post on defense, force the lob, and double on the catch.
How does that Oregon game change if you play Josh at the 5, and pull Bell away from the hoop? I'm not sure he is able to just hang out at the rim and swat our shots all game long. To me, it is really the only counter a 4 guard team with a weak spot at the 5 has against superior athleticism.
Oh I totally agree about the strategy and the fact Wilson can put the ball on the floor and straight line drive past a 5 is potentially something that could be useful that hasn't been used.
I've ran through the scenario's why Jalen hasn't gotten any run at the 5. 1- defense, 2- trusts Mitch too much and has "earned" the spot, 3- keeping Wilson's responsibility & mind focused on his position he's currently in. Perhaps behind the scenes they just want to keep him from pressing and having to remember where to be in sets playing 2 positions. I don't know how complex it is to learn both, just throwing thoughts out there. He had some run there last year and at times it was pretty successful. Personally I would try this again because unless Mitch is 3 feet from the basket in scoring position what else does he bring on that end? So many examples from the Iowa St game alone where he wasn't guarded at all on the catch there in the high post/midrange.
@BeddieKU23 He won't play Jalen at the 5. The rebounding disadvantage is too much.
@FarmerJayhawk so all that being said I came in here saying how Self was wrong and you guys hammered me.
Glad you saw it my way in the summer but didnāt 2 weeks ago
@Jethro said in Yesufu and Remy:
@BeddieKU23 He won't play Jalen at the 5. The rebounding disadvantage is too much.
Agee Wilson not gonna play the 5. not a good fit
@kuballin10 I also said all of a month ago play Yes more since Remy is out. But keep on keeping on with your narrative. I believe you can power through it!!
@FarmerJayhawk no narrative just you two on me thatās all - if we agree now then all good will move on
@jayballer67 Wilson leads the team in rebounds? What he canāt defend the block against Oscar....neither can Dave or Mitch.
When itās bad Dave (which is often) this is our best 5 players.
Harris
Joe
Och
Braun
Wilson
I donāt want Mitch or KJ they donāt bring enough.
Top rebounders
Wilson
Dave
Och
Braun
You guys act like we are giving up a lot when in reality we are fine we have 6-6, 6-8, 6-8. Yes, if we play Oscar again I get it but after watching Svi shut down Bagley in the Elite 8.....rolling with Wilson at the 5 puts our best players on the court.
@kuballin10 said in Yesufu and Remy:
@jayballer67 Wilson leads the team in rebounds? What he canāt defend the block against Oscar....neither can Dave or Mitch.
When itās bad Dave (which is often) this is our best 5 players.
Harris
Joe
Och
Braun
WilsonI donāt want Mitch or KJ they donāt bring enough.
Top rebounders
Wilson
Dave
Och
BraunYou guys act like we are giving up a lot when in reality we are fine we have 6-6, 6-8, 6-8. Yes, if we play Oscar again I get it but after watching Svi shut down Bagley in the Elite 8.....rolling with Wilson at the 5 puts our best players on the court.
No Wilson can't defend - e gets bullied around his frame will not take that bigger athletic 5's will eat him up . . Kentucky come to mind -not alone Oscar but others. he can rebound the ball just fine from where he is at he needs to stay where he is Five is not a good fit- -there is no way he can defend a big 6'10 - physical big he just doesn't have the stature for that you will never see him play the 5 spot for any extended amount of time IF any just won't work
Whenever Bad Dave shows up, whoever Self puts at the 5 is lacking in at least one significant area of their game. To me, that means it should be a situational determination on who gets those minutes. Jalen Wilson is by far the best offensive option and rebounder among the three options. Wilson is also the worst defender by quite a bit regardless of which position he's playing.
KJ is the best defender of the three, but he can't score and can't rebound to the point where it hurts his defense because he gives up too many offensive rebounds. If Adams is in, Wilson almost has to be to help with rebounding, but if Wilson's offense is off that game as well, that's minimal offensive threat at the 4 and 5 spots.
Mitch is in the middle of those three categories which is why he gets the majority of the back up minutes. He's not the offensive threat Wilson is, but he's capable of getting the ball in the basket. He's also an average rebounder for his size and he's a better defender than Wilson and KU's best shot blocker.
If KU gets into a situation where the defense is playing poorly and KU is losing, then I'd be in favor of Wilson at the 5 along with Harris and Yesufu/Pettiford/Martin next to him to help spark some offense and let KU play quicker.
If KU has a lead and needs to get some stops then, KJ is probably the best choice, but if it's a tight game, I'd rather see Mitch because he's going to make the right play 95% of the time which Wilson amd Adams won't do.
@jayballer67 what you said about Wilson is true but same for Mitch and Kj (heās 6-6 and has played the 5).
Iām conceding D wonāt be good but thatās okay I expect with Joe and Harris hounding the ball that Iām willing to give that up for having the 5 best basketball players and scorers on the floor.
Give up defense for better offense and pushing the pace. Opens things up for Och and Braun.
Also what Texashawk said the breakdown per player is correct each has their deficiencies.
@kuballin10 said in Yesufu and Remy:
@jayballer67 what you said about Wilson is true but same for Mitch and Kj (heās 6-6 and has played the 5).
Iām conceding D wonāt be good but thatās okay I expect with Joe and Harris hounding the ball that Iām willing to give that up for having the 5 best basketball players and scorers on the floor.
Give up defense for better offense and pushing the pace. Opens things up for Och and Braun.
Also what Texashawk said the breakdown per player is correct each has their deficiencies.
I'm not saying anything about putting the best 5 on the floor, the thing is you try and put Jalen in that 5 spot which he is probably more then not one of our 5 best players- - -you put him in that 5 spot and get abused trying to defend all your gonn acomplish is getting him in foul trouble and then we lose one of our best five -- just wouldn't work. - But we all have our opinions nothing wrong with that
lol
@kuballin10 I donāt understand the need to be divisive and tell people they disagree with you. Is the goal to influence opinion or prove your superiority?
I think debate and differences of opinion are healthy. I also think that evolution of opinion is natural and trying to pin people down by the perception of past declarations is not constructive.
@BShark said in Yesufu and Remy:
lol
I hada heard was going to be an extended time -- maybe ready for the NCAA's - time for Joe to step up
@jayballer67 youāre assuming he will get in foul trouble. Youāre assuming the other team will feed the post like we feed Dave meanwhile most teams donāt they get out and run.
There is a definite risk of foul trouble but what we gain offensively (only when Dave is bad) seems worth it for 4-5 minutes a game....letās see what happens.
6-8 trex svi shut down 6-11 235 Bagley...
Divisive? Itās a message board....I came here stating emphatically Self screwed this up. As expected I got crapped on because I donāt see practice and Iām behind a computer. Divisive was never me it was people who didnāt like hearing at 18-3 we have some glaring holes keeping us from being the title team we thought we were coming into the season.
I like a good debate you will never offend me. Iāve enjoyed when people donāt just say āoh you donāt knowā
They come at me like dchawk and texashawk with reasons Iām right or wrong. Thatās the point of any sports message board to discuss and analyze the team.
Not really following what your posts means Iām not superior Iām seeing that the roster has been mismanaged and pointing it out.
You taking offense as Iām lauding Iām superior is funny....no one on this board or pretty much all of coaching is superior to Self....but he does make mistakes thatās what I pointed out in my fan frustration.
@kuballin10 Alright, well what Iām saying is that youāre telling people they disagree with you , and theyāre telling you they donāt. Whatās the point in telling them they had a different opinion than you in the past? Either 1. They did and now they see it differently. This is natural and as far as I see it, it would be a good thing. 2. They never saw it differently but youāre telling them they did and they say they didnāt. Why is this even worth arguing? What does it prove if they did, and isnāt the point lost? Imo the point is to debate the right now, not peoples positions past. Thatās when you stop focusing on the team and on egos of posters. Not constructive, right?
Anyway, we donāt need to harp on it, just an observation. I feel like your ideas on the team are good ones. Your ideas about who is/was right and wrong on here just isnāt going to result in anything.
I speak from experience. Iām always right but I donāt gloat about it.
I like the idea of Jalen taking minutes at the 5 if we utilize what he can do at that position. His weakness is body size and defense. Patch together some weakside help, but know he may be burned. Just teach him not to low post foul.
Then what he should be doing is testing his hotness from trey. Get the opposing big out of the box and open up the lane for all of our guys to drive, including Jalen.... and hopefully Jalen burns down some treys, too!
Our best speed at dribbling up the court is Jalen. He rebounds... he should drive down, get ahead of their big, either take it to the hole or feed for a trey shot.
For much of this season, I think most of us have been unhappy with the pace of games. We haven't controlled tempo and we pay the price. We controlled the tempo at ISU and we owned them. So we need to speed up without playing sped up.
Combining Jalen at the 5 and Joe out there... we should be a fast team pushing a full-court offense.
You all know I support a horizontal game more than a vertical game. I'll take Big Dave in the post when he's performing. But when he's not this is the time Self needs a short-chain.
@kuballin10 said in Yesufu and Remy:
@jayballer67 youāre assuming he will get in foul trouble. Youāre assuming the other team will feed the post like we feed Dave meanwhile most teams donāt they get out and run.
There is a definite risk of foul trouble but what we gain offensively (only when Dave is bad) seems worth it for 4-5 minutes a game....letās see what happens.
6-8 trex svi shut down 6-11 235 Bagley...
Are you saying teams won' recognize and try to take advantage of matchup problems ? - -Sure most teams will get out and run but they don't always transition to the finish. Most decent caliber coach can recognize a mis match - -doesn't and won't take them long. - -Wilson usually manages to stay away from a lot of foul trouble but if you put him at the 5 - -unless he is just gonna give un-contested shot after uncontested shot - -he WILL get in foul trouble and quickly if you try him at the 5. The opposition 5 backing him down - he just can not match up against legit P-5 Centers they will take him to the hole and school him like nobodys business and there would be a lot and ones- -AGAIN that will just not work a total mis match in every way shape or form
@drgnslayr I advocated for it for a long time, but have come to realize it won't happen. It has become the new "Perry at the 3".