Detective testifies that Miller brought the gun to the vehicle that led to the shooting of Harris. Nate Oats says Miller is not in any type of trouble and he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Am I missing something here? How is Miller not in any trouble if he was the one who brought the gun to the scene?
Yikes. This is real bad. Oats says, "wrong place, wrong time" and "tough to control what college kids do outside of practice." Anyone in this situation who is not a basketball star would be arrested for sure.
In general I'm for LESS people going to prison but there needs to be SOME consequence for getting a gun for your buddy when they ask you to bring it to a volatile situation that then ends in murder. Multiple players involved in this tragedy. Clearly some favorable treatment provided for the star player. What a mess. A person is DEAD. Wrong place wrong time and a prayer circle after practice sense the trial was today, ain't gonna cut it.
Curious what others think here. Does Miller get suspended? Removed from campus? Does Oats get fired? Program suspended? Big ole nothing happens? This seems HUGE but is that just me?
Came here to post this. Insane.
It will be interesting to see what happens after today. It is clear Bama was trying to sweep this under the rug, but I am not sure why they thought this information about Miller was never going to come out. Maybe they were hoping it would come out after the tournament and he was off to the NBA. I don't think there is any chance that Oats is fired. They literally signed him to an extension as this was going on. One of his players was charged with capital murder and he got a raise and extension!
I would guess now that this is out that Miller gets 2-3 games and a slap on the wrist.
This is a real bad look for someone who's projected as a potential top 5 pick in the draft. If I was an NBA team, this would be enough for me to take him off the draft board completely. From a legal standpoint, thus sounds like he's an accessory to murder at minimum.
This isn't quite to a level of Dave Bliss, but this to me is arguably worse than Chris Beard as Oates sounds very tone deaf to to the severity of the situation and Alabama's administration is approaching Baylor levels of incompetence in handling this matter. At minimum, Miller should've been suspended in January pending the outcome of an investigation into his in involvement as soon as his name was brought up.
It's Alabama. Expect it
This is pretty crazy. Will the media make this a big deal?
@BeddieKU23 said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
It's Alabama. Expect it
This is pretty crazy. Will the media make this a big deal?
If it was football this may have never got out.
This is an insane situation, I have to agree with @Texas-Hawk-10 I donāt see a scenario that has him not in jail for accessory to murder or conspiracy to commit murder by giving someone a gun knowing they have bad intentions. Now that itās in the public eye I could huge implications in not only basketball but the athletics department. Never know for sure KSUCK had a guy driving the car in a drive by shooting that got swept under the rug til the season was over but had zero implications to those who hid it.
@kjayhawks not just that, but he also used HIS OWN CAR to block her in so she couldnāt leave. Absolutely mind boggling how negligent the āauthoritiesā and Nate Oats are in this matter.
I think the momentum of the story is going to force the authorities to take another look at the facts.
Of course, it is Alabama:
https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/alabamas-jermaine-burton-accused-of-hitting-rival-fans/ ā
:clown_face:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
This is a real bad look for someone whoās projected as a potential top 5 pick in the draft. If I was an NBA team, this would be enough for me to take him off the draft board completely. From a legal standpoint, thus sounds like heās an accessory to murder at minimum.
This isnāt quite to a level of Dave Bliss, but this to me is arguably worse than Chris Beard as Oates sounds very tone deaf to to the severity of the situation and Alabamaās administration is approaching Baylor levels of incompetence in handling this matter. At minimum, Miller shouldāve been suspended in January pending the outcome of an investigation into his in involvement as soon as his name was brought up.
Ditto... ditto!
wow. i didn't read much about this when it happened, but it sure got a lot more interesting.
I have no clue what Alabama's gun laws are, but surely providing a loaded weapon for a murder has to be some sort of crime for Miller, right? Deliberately as well. Was asked to bring it, and he HAD to know the situation, and brought it.
All over a girl not wanting to talk to one of the guys? man. maybe there's more to the story i haven't read, but that's nuts.
It's sad to say, but the older i get, the more i feel (and read) that universities all across the country have zero transparency mostly. Lots of stuff they try to sweep under the rug.
Coach's initial statement was idiotic, plain and simple. zero clue. protect and defend.
If Miller was truly involved in a shooting death as detailed, that's more than a suspension. way more. No way i'd want that guy representing my university.
I have no idea if Miller has any criminal liability since I don't know Alabama criminal law. In some states, grand juries have to indict for felonies so maybe that's the case here? Idk. Those things take time.
At any rate, it doesn't preclude the University from suspending or dismissing everyone involved. Oats's response was absolutely horrific, and if I were the AD I'd look closely at whether I could fire him for cause. Clown show.
I have a really hard time understanding how Miller is off the hook here, currently.
I have an easier time understanding Alabama trying to make this a nothing issue since it involves their star player. The statement from Oats is horrific, like it didn't get proof-read by the Athletic Dept etc., whoever would make sure he's not being a complete idiot. I have no idea why they let him say what he did.
Knowing what we know about the NCAA would you want to report anything to them? Certainly not justifying Alabama here, speaking in general of how strained the relationship between Universities & the NCAA is right now.
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
wow. i didn't read much about this when it happened, but it sure got a lot more interesting.
I have no clue what Alabama's gun laws are, but surely providing a loaded weapon for a murder has to be some sort of crime for Miller, right? Deliberately as well. Was asked to bring it, and he HAD to know the situation, and brought it.
All over a girl not wanting to talk to one of the guys? man. maybe there's more to the story i haven't read, but that's nuts.
It's sad to say, but the older i get, the more i feel (and read) that universities all across the country have zero transparency mostly. Lots of stuff they try to sweep under the rug.
Coach's initial statement was idiotic, plain and simple. zero clue. protect and defend.
If Miller was truly involved in a shooting death as detailed, that's more than a suspension. way more. No way i'd want that guy representing my university.
The car was reportedly used to block in the murder victim. I am at a loss why this fact isn't being discussed more. I mean bringing a loaded gun to a party district at 1am is really sketchy, and maybe they can explain that one away somehow. But to use your car to block in a car to make sure they couldn't leave that results in a murder seems to me to be very hard to explain.
The DA says there is nothing to charge Miller with. Seems shady; why is he not an accessory? Bringing the shooter his gun - the claim was for self defense is one thing, but if he also blocked in her car then that paints a different picture. One of an ambush.
My quick look at Alabama law says that Miller may legally possess a firearm without a permit in Alabama because he's older than 19. Miller is presumed innocent of any and all criminal conduct until a state or federal prosecutor has probable cause to believe he knowingly participated in the homicide or some other criminal offense. So, there must be some evidence, like witness testimony that Miller knew the firearm he exchanged was going to be used for an ilegal purpose and he knowingly aid and abetted the commision of the offense. I'm sure the investigation is on-going.
@stoptheflop Iād be shocked if anything happened to Miller.
While I canāt see an innocent reason to bring someone a gun instead of hauling their friends dumb ass out of the situation, maybe there is one. Maybe this huge body building biker girl gang was beating the thunder out of his puny pocket protector nerdy friend and he was stuck in a wheelchair at that moment and the only way to save his friends life was to break out a firearm. rolls eyes I mean he couldāve tried to de-escalate the situation, but he threw fire on it. It may not have gone the way he imagined, but what good could bringing a gun to an altercation in progress do? Just a series of terrible choices. His momma should be ashamed for the horrible job she did raising her child if this is what he thinks is a good life decision.
Word is that Miller drove back after receiving a text from Miles saying he needed his "joint", left his car there and walked away. Miles then told Davis where the gun was inside the car. Miles called the police afterward to report a shooting and claimed he was not on the scene until video evidence proved otherwise.
For Miller's involvement, I think at best, he was ignorant as to why Miles needed his gun, at worst, he knew what the gun was being used for. Im leaning towards the latter right now as Miles told police he texted Miller for his gun because he was being threatened.
@BeddieKU23 I don't think Miles mentioned anything regarding Miller, but the call was made from an apt close to the scene, and Miles only confessed when dashcam footage showed Miles was on the scene with Davis. They used the dashcam from Miller's car to charge Miles and Davis so i think its safe to say Miller wasn't at the scene otherwise he too would've been arrested at the time.
But saying Miller was at the wrong place at the wrong time, if that's what the coach said about Miller is greatly down playing the responsiblity a gun owner has when lending their gun to someone else. Maybe not criminal conduct, but Miller may be liable civilly for negligent entrustment of the gun. But, I haven't tried to follow any of the facts about this matter. I just wish people would be slower to demand criminal prosecution and other sanctions while the matter is still being investigated.
Has any NBA prospect won the lottery twice? Because Miller is about to.
@stoptheflop said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
But saying Miller was at the wrong place at the wrong time, if that's what the coach said about Miller is greatly down playing the responsiblity a gun owner has when lending their gun to someone else. Maybe not criminal conduct, but Miller may be liable civilly for negligent entrustment of the gun. But, I haven't tried to follow any of the facts about this matter. I just wish people would be slower to demand criminal prosecution and other sanctions while the matter is still being investigated.
Right there with you on the criminal aspect. My thoughts are more about the basketball program and the coach. Like, if you know this heavy of a situation is being investigated, you have to get your own info and make your non-legal determinations and act on the situation. The internal investigations and actions by the coach and program are what I'm criticizing as woefully underwhelming. Star player still playing, prayer circle, "wrong place wrong time" "can't control what kids do outside of practice" "not in any trouble at all over this situation" All of that is just bad bad bad.
I'd hope our program would respond better and in my opinion we do have a better track record as we've suspended several players for off the court stuff. Jalen with the DUI comes to mind. You address the problem head on, provide a consequence, give the player an opportunity to make amends/apologize/show growth, etc. And if we are all thinking this is a tough one to do any of that apologizing stuff for, well then that tells you how serious the consequence within the program needs to be.
Let the police and the lawyers handle the criminality of an act. As a coach, just make sure your program addresses issues in as transparent and proactive way as you can. Maybe coach was prevented from doing this stuff as a result of the police investigation but that isn't what he said. If that's the case. Say so. Be honest, forthcoming, and present your program in the best light you can. This ain't it.
@benshawks08 The energy I get from Oats is he knows Miller is lying but has no evidence to prove otherwise and has no choice but to back his player. And now he has to double down as he didn't take appropriate action when the story first broke a month ago. Obviously this is just my opinion.
@Eric-san I could see this as the case. But then don't say in a press conference "we've known all along about all of this" and then downplay the clearly serious situation. I just feel like it isn't that hard to NOT LIE. Tell the truth or at least as much of it as you are allowed to share/feel comfortable sharing. I mean, "I can't speak on this as it is under further investigation" is a pretty solid way to frame a situation you don't want to talk about. Or, "we are conducting our own investigation and will decide what to do when that is completed" It just isn't that hard. ChatGPT could do a better job at damage control than this.
In my experience, aiding and abetting requires a specific intent to assist the commission of a crime. The facts as related may not support that level of knowledge.
There could be evidence that Miller either had knowledge, or should have had that knowledge, that he was bringing a gun into a dangerous situation, which might be a basis for a negligent homicide or manslaughter charge if Alabama law has that.
From the DA's stmts, it appears that Alabama, like many states, is very protective of gun possession and transfer rights. Many people want more laws enforcing responsible storage and caution about transferring weapons. But any such laws ain't gonna pass the scrutiny of today's Supreme Court, whose test is whether any such controls were in effect when the 2nd Amendment was adopted. In 1791.
It was Miles gun and he wanted it brought to him via text from Miller. Miller brought the gun to the scene and left it in his car while blocking the victim's car from exiting the road. His teammate also parked his car blocking the road.
This article runs down some of the details.
@Eric-san said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
@benshawks08 The energy I get from Oats is he knows Miller is lying but has no evidence to prove otherwise and has no choice but to back his player. And now he has to double down as he didn't take appropriate action when the story first broke a month ago. Obviously this is just my opinion.
The response from Oates all along should have been that he has no comment on an active investigation and he'll let the legal process play out and any disciplinary action will be administered by the university based on the findings of the investigation.
@BeddieKU23 said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
Knowing what we know about the NCAA would you want to report anything to them? Certainly not justifying Alabama here, speaking in general of how strained the relationship between Universities & the NCAA is right now.
You know, I wasnāt even thinking about the NCAA when I wrote that. I donāt want to bog down this lively discussion with NCAA chat, so I was simply saying in that one sentence that schools canāt be trusted to do the right thing IMO.
What about Miller and his teammate parking their car in such a way, blocking the road from the victim's car potentially leaving where they were. That part hasn't been explained on why Miller/Bradley did this. Did they just coincidently drive down to where Miles was and coincidently left their car in such a way where the victim and her boyfriend couldn't exit? Miles & Davis had some discussion with the Victim and her boyfriend that led to this outcome. Miles then asked Miller to bring his gun to him. This smells awful fishy
Agree, that's part of why athletic departments have compliance officers on staff.
I read that Alabama has a grand jury system, so a grand jury could indict Miller if the prosecutor doesn't press charges. So, it might not be over yet. The big question is why Oates and the Alabama AD allowed Miller to continue playing in light of the circumstances.
Star athlete in Alabama in legal trouble. Nah
Oates later released another statement to clarify his initial response. He's still a complete idiot
Miller started tonight for Alabama, so I suppose all is forgiven?
Well, Miller's attorney's statement is pretty specific. Interesting...they usually just say their client is innocent and they look forward to all the "true" facts coming out. He denies Miller ever touched the gun. Will be pretty damning if they have prints or something. From The Athletic:
āBrandon never got out of his vehicle or interacted with anyone in Ms. Harrisā party,ā Jim Standridge said Wednesday. āHe was never involved in a verbal altercation with Cedric Johnson or Mr. Davis. Brandon never touched the gun, was not involved in its exchange to Mr. Davis in any way, and never knew that illegal activity involving the gun would occur.ā
The burden of proof completely changes for a civil lawsuit. I expect he will be named eventually....
According to Standridge, Miller was already on his way to pick up Miles when Miles texted him to bring him his gun on the night of the shooting. Standridge wrote that Miller never saw Miles' handgun and that it was "concealed under some clothing in the back seat" of Miller's car. He added that Miller never touched the gun or was involved in its exchange to Davis, the alleged shooter.
Police had testified Tuesday that Davis was dancing in front of Harris' Jeep, leading to an exchange between Davis and Harris' boyfriend, Cedric Johnson.
According to Standridge, Miller was unaware of the confrontation between the two parties, didn't get out of his car and had already parked it when Johnson's Jeep later pulled up behind him, thereby not intentionally blocking its exit.
Miller, whose windshield was hit by gunfire, left when the shooting started.
"All of the events described above are clearly captured on video," Standridge wrote. "There is no dispute about Brandon's activities during this evening."
Following the police testimony, Oats said the school had known about Miller's presence at the scene, adding that his player was in the "wrong spot at the wrong time." Byrne told ESPN that Oats had not been briefed on the new information that emerged in the hearing, which led on Tuesday night to Oats clarifying what he called his "unfortunate remarks" earlier in the day.
He opened his postgame news conference Wednesday night by again apologizing for what he initially said Tuesday.
"I am not here to make excuses, but I want to make it clear that I didn't have the details from the hearing that morning, since I was coming straight from practice," Oats said. "And I used a poor choice of words, making it appear like I was not taking this tragic situation seriously, which we have throughout the course of it. I sincerely apologize for that."
Sounds like no legal issues forthcoming for Miller. But the coach is making an ass of himself and handling the situation poorly.
I mean Alabama could have gotten ahead of this a month ago. They brought this on themselves. A player (former now) charged with murdering someone last month and they didn't think these details would get out to the public? Beyond stupidity. The coach's initial statement, beyond stupidity.
This whole thing gets weirder and seems like a lie that he knew nothing. On KeyShawn, JWil and Max ESPN Radio. They claimed that he supposedly had zero idea of the gun and accidentally blocked in their vehicle. They all also agreed it was shady how much they have hidden the last month and that he shouldāve sat out several game due to the loss of a life that he was involved in accidentally or not. My problem is you donāt hide it and change your story multiple times if you are innocent. They shouldāve released a statement long ago if that was the case not sit on it and pray it never comes out. I hope he doesnāt get drafted. If any KU player pulled similar, Iād want everyone involved gone.
People talk a lot about privilege in this country but get mad when someone mentions Athletic privilege or Wealth privilege two very real things it this country. Look at guy like Deshaun Watson, came out richer and better off since his deal. Wanna get sick look at the rap sheet of some professional athletes in this country that would land commoner in prison.
@kjayhawks Iāve never heard or seen someone mad or denying athletic or wealth privilege unless in was an excuse to ignore race. All types of privilege exist and are always working in concert. One can be privileged in one area and disadvantaged in another.
Yeah, I didn't know there was a gun in my car. Reminds me of cop shows where the suspect says the pants he's wearing aren't his, and he didn't know there were drugs in them.
@Jethro said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
Yeah, I didn't know there was a gun in my car. Reminds me of cop shows where the suspect says the pants he's wearing aren't his, and he didn't know there were drugs in them.
speaking of Cops show-- love it when the suspect runs - they catch him and ask - -why did you run. His response more times the not - - -I didn't know who you were roflmao - -WTH ? - uniform - red& Blue flashing lights - -Sirens & the best you got was I didn't know who you were lol
"There's nothing we could charge him with," Tuscaloosa chief deputy district attorney Paula Whitley told AL.com of Miller's legal exposure"
Paula is an Alabama grad fyi..
@BeddieKU23 said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
"There's nothing we could charge him with," Tuscaloosa chief deputy district attorney Paula Whitley told AL.com of Miller's legal exposure"
Paula is an Alabama grad fyi..
All prosecutors have the huge responsibility to ethically decide if there's enough actual evidence to prove by probable cause that someone has commited a crime. Then, the prosecutor must decide if probable cause is enough to risk losing the case at trial where the evidentiary burden is beyond a reasonable doubt. I trust prosecutors to make these difficult legal determinations; no one wants people to face charges if there's insufficient evidence to prove a crime has been committed. While our criminal justice system isn't perfect, it works very well in most instances.
The Athletic has another good piece on the Miller situation. While I'm not a fan of Dana O'Neil it has some good points.
https://theathletic.com/4252599/2023/02/26/alabama-brandon-miller-patdown/ ā
@BeddieKU23 Hadnāt seen the pat down introā¦ do they have a PR team at Bama? Good god.
@benshawks08 said in Alabama's Brandon Miller:
@BeddieKU23 Hadnāt seen the pat down introā¦ do they have a PR team at Bama? Good god.
I seen the pat down crap - - -not a very good look, really bad taste. - -He just comes out when introduced in startin line up and another player pats him down while he stands there with arms raised, ,THAT doesn't help his look to some - -just not good idea
@BeddieKU23 Shocker heās a Bama grad smh. People Iāve talked to that lived in that area for a few years always said Saban was a mafia boss and he had more power than anyone in that state or so it seemed. Different sport obviously, @stoptheflop Iām not going to assume just because heās prosecutor thatās heās a good one or a good person for that matter. I certainly hope he is but starting to lean the other way the more info that comes out.
Millerās really good. If he were a Jayhawk I would be proud of whatever the team did in his absence after Bill kicked his sorry butt off the team.