🏀 KuBuckets Archive

With sooo many moving parts, I thought it would be entertaining to predict potential starting lineups — with ONLY guys on the current roster. No cheating and inserting Hunter until if and when he signs on the dotted line! :)

Mine:

PG: Dajuan Harris

SG/CG: Elmarko Jackson

SG/CG: Chris Johnson or whichever freshman stands out

Wing-ish: KJ Adams

Center: Ernest Udeh

Analysis: there is basically zero 3 pt shooting skill in this mix of players. That’s an issue. From what I’m reading about Elmarko, he’s going to have a big learning curve playing without being ball dominant. There are some downhill players in the mix though. That’s good. And I don’t love that mix of KJ and Udeh. I’d prefer a four out rotation.

It won't be Chris Johnson. I will bet my house.

I'd say right now Juan/Elmarko/Timberlake/KJ/Udeh.

NOT GREAT BOB! But Bill has time.

If that is what we end up with post portal, then it is going to be a long season. Even with Self coaching, I don't think that is close to a 20 win team. As you note, no outside shooting. Even worse, that's 3 small guards and a 4 that doesn't rebound. Udeh's not great either. Rolling the dice going all in on Ingram and Dickinson. Whiffed on the first and may on the second, as well. Going to have to find some size and athleticism from someone who doesn't stay in the draft.

Back to canceling the season. Bill definitely won't add any other players. We are doomed.

Let’s keep this a non transfer/portal thread if you don’t mind. We got enough of that talk elsewhere, right? :)

Current roster guys…

The wing spot is a bit of a mystery with our freshmen, plus the Timberlake addition.

He could start, but with what I’m reading he would ideally be a sixth man?

@DCHawker said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

If that is what we end up with post portal, then it is going to be a long season. Even with Self coaching, I don't think that is close to a 20 win team. As you note, no outside shooting. Even worse, that's 3 small guards and a 4 that doesn't rebound. Udeh's not great either. Rolling the dice going all in on Ingram and Dickinson. Whiffed on the first and may on the second, as well. Going to have to find some size and athleticism from someone who doesn't stay in the draft.

Yup, that lineup is brutal for shooting. To think I was worried about shooting last season! This is worse.

@BShark said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Back to canceling the season. Bill definitely won't add any other players. We are doomed.

LMAO , thee you go again - -

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

The wing spot is a bit of a mystery with our freshmen, plus the Timberlake addition.

He could start, but with what I’m reading he would ideally be a sixth man?

Were not including Timberlake in this remember? - he is transfer portal

@jayballer67 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

The wing spot is a bit of a mystery with our freshmen, plus the Timberlake addition.

He could start, but with what I’m reading he would ideally be a sixth man?

Were not including Timberlake in this remember? - he is transfer portal

Sure, no prob. Include Timberlake.

I just didn't want another transfer speculation thread, that's all. Was hoping to discuss our current starters, and see how that changes over the next month as we add players to the team.

No worries, these threads evolve. I get it!

Top of the thread edited for clarity ... as i was half asleep when i started it. zzz.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

With sooo many moving parts, I thought it would be entertaining to predict potential starting lineups — with ONLY guys on the current roster. No cheating and inserting Hunter until if and when he signs on the dotted line! :)

Mine:

PG: Dajuan Harris

SG/CG: Elmarko Jackson

SG/CG: Chris Johnson or whichever freshman stands out

Wing-ish: KJ Adams

Center: Ernest Udeh

Analysis: there is basically zero 3 pt shooting skill in this mix of players. That’s an issue. From what I’m reading about Elmarko, he’s going to have a big learning curve playing without being ball dominant. There are some downhill players in the mix though. That’s good. And I don’t love that mix of KJ and Udeh. I’d prefer a four out rotation.

Nothing about KJ's game is a wing other than his size.

As of today, KU has Dejuan Harris, Kyle Cuffe, KJ Adams, Ernest Udeh, and Zuby Ejiofor as returning players. They have Elmarko Jackson, Chris Johnson, Marcus Adams, Jamari McDowell as incoming freshmen and Nicholas Timberlake as an incoming transfer for the new players.

With that group, right now, I'd go with Harris, Timberlake, Marcus Adams, KJ Adams, and Ernest Udeh for my starting 5. I'd rather have Jackson off the bench so he can spell Harris and gradually learn to play off the ball without that being his primary role. You'd still have Cuffe in an emergency at PG. Johnson and McDowell would then primarily sub at the 2 and 3 spots. Michael Jankovich could also in theory play that spot in a pinch. That leaves Zuby as the lone big off the bench.

As of today, this is a team that would probably do well to finish in the middle of the Big 12.

I suppose if we can only use players we know will be on the roster next year my guess at the starting lineup would be Harris, Elmarko Jackson, Nick Timberlake, KJ Adams, and Ernest Udeh. However, with Udeh's foul problems he will only be on the floor 10 minutes a game, meaning a more common lineup will be Harris, Jackson, Timberlake, Marcus Adams, and KJ Adams. Of course, this lineup WILL change with the portal so the posts now are meaningless outside of having fun shooting the breeze. Maybe we won't get our most desired targets, but we will get a couple players who will compete for starting roles.

Possibly two freshmen starting?

PG Dajuan Harris

SG Arterio Morris or Elmarko

SF Nick Timberlake

F Marcus Adams

C Udeh

Sixth men: Morris or Elmarko / KJ (just don't want him and Udeh in at the same time. maybe i'm wrong)

With Morris in the mix, I'd update my line up to Harris, Morris, Timberlake, KJ Adams, and Udeh with Jackson, Marcus Adams, and Ejiofor as the bench guys getting rotation level minutes.

I’m breaking the rules and predicting.
Anyone think KJ would ever come off the bench?
Say we get Tyson and Hunter what on earth happens?

Juan

Morris

Timberlake

Tyson

Hunter

Backups: Elmarko, Marcus, KJ, Udeh

That’s title worthy

BUMBPPPP

Might have to remove Udeh from your rotation predictions. Pains me to say it. We will see.

@BShark said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Might have to remove Udeh from your rotation predictions. Pains me to say it. We will see.

!alt text ↗

@BShark NOOOOOO! He has the best potential defensively.

I figured Zuby would transfer based on the tweets you’d mentioned not Udeh.

@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@BShark NOOOOOO! He has the best potential defensively.

I figured Zuby would transfer based on the tweets you’d mentioned not Udeh.

Now that we are here I think Udeh is more likely. Bill will try to keep him though I am sure.

Why couldn't Udeh or Zuby redshirt this Season and stay/develop more ? - -Huner only gonna be here a year anyways

In one of there threads, IIRC, someone said Zuby was developing ahead of Udeh before an injury. ???

@BShark this is not right!

@Crimsonorblue22 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@BShark this is not right!

Would bet money we lose Udeh. He loves it here but his guardian thinks he is a starter.

So self doesn't develop anymore, just gets one yr guys from portal he can pay every yr?

@Crimsonorblue22

This is the new way. past wild wild west

@Crimsonorblue22 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

So self doesn't develop anymore, just gets one yr guys from portal he can pay every yr?

Udeh would stay, probably not up to him though.

We are the new kentucky

Nice lineup change! More TK…today hopefully.

Juan — assists and defense

Elmarko (Morris?) — scoring, slashing, hopefully some defense

Timberlake — shooting

Marcus Adams — shooting

Hunter — scoring, rebounding

Bench: Elmarko, KJ, Udeh

Can this lineup cut it defensively?

@Gorilla72 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

In one of there threads, IIRC, someone said Zuby was developing ahead of Udeh before an injury. ???

He was, before Zuby got hurt last season, he was the one that started getting most of the back up minutes.

@jayballer67 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Why couldn't Udeh or Zuby redshirt this Season and stay/develop more ? - -Huner only gonna be here a year anyways

Hunter has 2 years of eligibility. Even if he didn't come here, it was very likely that one of Udeh or Zuby would've transferred out anyway because they both wouldn't be starters here.

My personal preference if KU is indeed going to lose either Zuby or Udeh is to lose Udeh. I think he has the lower ceiling of the two. In his limited minutes, Zuby put up dominant rebounding numbers whereas Udeh was a below average rebounder, not as bad as KJ, not not that much better either. Zuby was also the much better shot blocker than Udeh was.

Udeh was a little ahead of Zuby offensively, but Zuby wasn't bad at 65% from the field and was better at the FT line, although both were bad at the FT last season.

Personally, I think Zuby is the better overall prospect and has the higher ceiling between he and Udeh and my personal choice would be to keep Zuby and let Udeh find somewhere else if it comes to that.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Interesting. I can see what you are saying but to me Zuby is the safer prospect but Udeh has the higher ceiling. Udeh’s physical tools and athleticism give him the potential (ceiling) to turn into something great. Zuby can be and was already becoming a solid college big man who can be a strong rebounder and good finisher down low but there wasn’t the same spark when he was on the floor. He has yet to get me to the edge of my seat the way Udeh did in spurts last year. I’m sure the injury was a big part of that.

@Texas-Hawk-10 You getting them confused?

Udeh was the 6-11 guy who’d block shots (often get way out of position and whiff as well) and throw down some lobs.

Zuby may have rebounded better but Udeh had some quick hands getting steals at the top on switches a few times.

@benshawks08 I agree. Zuby has a higher floor, but lower ceiling. Bill hates mistakes, so Zuby played early. Had he not got injured, I’m not sure Udeh would’ve got any run. I’m a fan of Udeh, I think he can be a star at this level if he stays four years. Zuby can be a McCormack level player in my estimation. Good enough to win you a national title, but not to carry you there. Pdg players

@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 You getting them confused?

Udeh was the 6-11 guy who’d block shots (often get way out of position and whiff as well) and throw down some lobs.

Zuby may have rebounded better but Udeh had some quick hands getting steals at the top on switches a few times.

Zuby had a block rate of 12.5% while Udeh was 7.7% so no, I'm not getting them confused. Udeh may have made more highlight level plays than Zuby, but Zuby is much more consistent and sound on that end of the floor than Udeh is. Udeh is a flashier player no doubt, but big men like home haven't necessarily torn the house down with scoring. Doke never averaged more than 13.7 ppg. Zuby can be a guy that can average a double-double by his senior season, I don't see Udeh ever being that type of player because of his rebounding.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Doke never averaged more than 13.7 ppg.

I am sure most KU fans' memories have built that higher in their minds!

@Texas-Hawk-10 I dunno, the eye test sure tells me Udeh is better than Zuby. Stats can be misleading sometimes and this might be one of those times. Consider this, a lot of Zuby's minutes were early season against non-con schedule, some much easier opponents there that skew the numbers. 7 Rebs against ND St, 5 against Texas So. He did have 5 rebs against Duke which is great but also two TOs. Udeh logged 4 Blocks that Duke game! Many of Udeh's minutes were in the heart of conference schedule and much tougher competition.

@RockkChalkk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 I dunno, the eye test sure tells me Udeh is better than Zuby. Stats can be misleading sometimes and this might be one of those times. Consider this, a lot of Zuby's minutes were early season against non-con schedule, some much easier opponents there that skew the numbers. 7 Rebs against ND St, 5 against Texas So. He did have 5 rebs against Duke which is great but also two TOs. Udeh logged 4 Blocks that Duke game! Many of Udeh's minutes were in the heart of conference schedule and much tougher competition.

The eye test also tells me that Zuby was getting the back up 5 minutes ahead of Udeh before he hurt his foot. Zuby's best overall game of the season came against Indiana and Trayce Jackson-Davis who was a consensus 1st team All-American last season. His second best overall game was against OSU in the Big 12 opener.

A lot of Zuby's advanced numbers on defense are very comparable to what Doke did as a freshman. One thing that Zuby has that's not an easily teachable trait is instincts and Zuby was light years ahead of Udeh as far as defensive instincts go.

@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 You getting them confused?

Udeh was the 6-11 guy who’d block shots (often get way out of position and whiff as well) and throw down some lobs.

Zuby may have rebounded better but Udeh had some quick hands getting steals at the top on switches a few times.

I will say this - it DID seem like he came up with more steals from a guy that size that you wouldn't think about. - -I really hate to lose either one of these guys though is they both 4 year players, and w have seen thee types develop before into pretty solid payers - -( umm does Azulbuike ring a bell lol- - McCormack ? ) -- I know like some have said I GUESS it's a business but these are suck likeable guys.

Kida wonder with all these transferring out - -and then guys who really didn't want to leave it seems ( Cuffe ) - kinda pushed out , just wonder some where down the line this doesn't come back and bite us in the ass

Back to the original purpose of this thread. New line up with Hunter Dickinson involved now for me would be:

Starters
G: Harris
G: Morris
G: Timberlake
F: KJ Adams
C: Dickinson

Bench Rotation
G: Jackson
F: Marcus Adams
F: Udeh/Ejiofor

@jayballer67 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 You getting them confused?

Udeh was the 6-11 guy who’d block shots (often get way out of position and whiff as well) and throw down some lobs.

Zuby may have rebounded better but Udeh had some quick hands getting steals at the top on switches a few times.

I will say this - it DID seem like he came up with more steals from a guy that size that you wouldn't think about. - -I really hate to lose either one of these guys though is they both 4 year players, and w have seen thee types develop before into pretty solid payers - -( umm does Azulbuike ring a bell lol- - McCormack ? ) -- I know like some have said I GUESS it's a business but these are suck likeable guys.

Kida wonder with all these transferring out - -and then guys who really didn't want to leave it seems ( Cuffe ) - kinda pushed out , just wonder some where down the line this doesn't come back and bite us in the ass

The long term issue with having both Ejiofor and Udeh is they play the same position, amd were in the same class. One would eventually transfer out anyway over a lack of playing time. This is why coach generally like have their depth staggered in regards to player at the same position as opposed to two guys in the same class like we have with these two.

@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.

@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.

Done and done!

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Back to the original purpose of this thread. New line up with Hunter Dickinson involved now for me would be:

Starters
G: Harris
G: Morris
G: Timberlake
F: KJ Adams
C: Dickinson

Bench Rotation
G: Jackson
F: Marcus Adams
F: Udeh/Ejiofor

Timberlake at the 3 guy ?

@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.

That would be my #1 target 🎯 esp if another player in the fold exits.

Maybe jumping the gun a little bit, but it seems fairly likely Mgbako will be a Jayhawk on Friday so an updated projection.

Starters:

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- Mgbako

F- KJ Adams

C- Dickinson

Rotation players

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

F- Udeh

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.

Ok let's say this ALL together lol - -KEVIN IS NOT I repeat- - NOT COMING BACK - -there now don't you feel better lol

I think a million dollar reduction in salary is crazy high. Heck if they fired him he could probably collect better than that even if the U protested.

For what it’s worth, I wonder if the freshmen will get a lot of play early to acclimatize themselves to KU ball and (later) AFH. There’s not much at stake in Puerto Rico and the exhibition game. It could build “team”. Then we see “the best of the best”. Thoughts?

I know it's not likely to happen, but it'd still argue that KJ needs to come off the bench. By the looks of Self's offseason take charge attitude, I think he's ready to move on from KJ as a starter.

Starters:

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- Timberlake

F- Mgbako

C- Dickinson

Rotation players

G- Jackson

wing/big - KJ

F- Marcus Adams

F- Udeh

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

@Gorilla72 yeah I expect a VERY long bench in PR. Reduce the risks of getting anyone hurt

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

I know it's not likely to happen, but it'd still argue that KJ needs to come off the bench. By the looks of Self's offseason take charge attitude, I think he's ready to move on from KJ as a starter.

Starters:

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- Timberlake

F- Mgbako

C- Dickinson

Rotation players

G- Jackson

wing/big - KJ

F- Marcus Adams

F- Udeh

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

I think wee gonna see El Marko over Morris

Well, that lock of getting MM was a bit off the mark!
So, just like going into last year, i have concerns about 3 pt shooting with this roster.

Back to this lineup:

Starters

G- Dajuan Harris

G- Arterio Morris

F- Nicolas Timberlake (it's all i can do to NOT call him Justin!)

F- KJ Adams (somebody has to play here)

C- Hunter Dickinson (better not be a freaking bust!)

Rotation players

G - Elmarko Jackson

Wing - Marcus Adams Jr.

Needed: A backup big

Deep Bench (we'll see if they are deep, or less deep)

G- Chris Johnson

G- Jamari McDowell

With this mornings news, new line up should be

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- McCullar

F- KJ Adams

C- Dickinson

Bench (Rotation level minutes)

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

F- Braun

A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.

What quality 5 is going to come here and play less then 10 minutes a game?

@jayballer67 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.

Ok let's say this ALL together lol - -KEVIN IS NOT I repeat- - NOT COMING BACK - -there now don't you feel better lol

This didn't age well.

@RockkChalkk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

This didn’t age well.

Only one of many comments made with certainty. Not very fair to pick just this one! Remembering one from early March last year, for example....

It's almost as if players' free will adds some unpredictability to these things.

@mayjay said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

It’s almost as if players’ free will adds some unpredictability to these things.

PHOF.

@RockkChalkk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@jayballer67 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.

Ok let's say this ALL together lol - -KEVIN IS NOT I repeat- - NOT COMING BACK - -there now don't you feel better lol

This didn't age well.

LMAO - - -no it didn't did it - - - and couldn't be happier that it didn't-- huge day for the Hawks

@jayballer67 ha. Cheers buddy!

@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@jayballer67 ha. Cheers buddy!

yes indeed - -great day -- makes my day, Kevin is so solid, no great but really , really , really, good

@BeddieKU23 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

What quality 5 is going to come here and play less then 10 minutes a game?

Grant Nelson in an ideal world, but beyond that not likely someone withdrawing from the draft, but someone coming up from a low major looking for more exposure even in limited minutes.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

With this mornings news, new line up should be

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- McCullar

F- KJ Adams

C- Dickinson

Bench (Rotation level minutes)

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

F- Braun

A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.

Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.

We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.

We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.

Would think that with that line-up, opponents would pack the lane and take their chances on us making outside shots. One way to counter would be to have Dickinson play the high role where he can make shots and he is a good passer. Kevin or KJ could post up smaller guys.

And, I would also expect quite a few more line-up changes during a game than in the past year. I would be surprised to see both KJ and Hunter playing a lot of minutes together, given that KJ is really the only back up 5 option right now. At least if there are quick fouls on either. A lot depends on Marcus' development, esp. if we don't get a Nelson or similar.

But, at least we should be able to generate a lot more scoring from the bench than this year...

I’m celebrating McCullars return. It’s way too early to bemoan shooting problems. These guys are working hard on their shooting, I’m sure. There will be positive surprises…

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

With this mornings news, new line up should be

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- McCullar

F- KJ Adams

C- Dickinson

Bench (Rotation level minutes)

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

F- Braun

A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.

Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.

We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.

You're not the only one. I would have preferred we landed a different player for that spot, but I do think this is still a salty lineup.

McCullar is a class act. I don’t know if he balances out some of the character issues on the team, but he goes a long way towards bringing me back in the fold. I’m probably in the minority, but I’d rather take a moderately less talented guy with sterling character over the stereotypical a-hole blue chipper.

I do think you can win a championship with Kevin playing 35 minutes a game.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

With this mornings news, new line up should be

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- McCullar

F- KJ Adams

C- Dickinson

Bench (Rotation level minutes)

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

F- Braun

A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.

Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.

We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.

How many KU games did you watch last year? You wouldn't be saying that if you watched Kevin play.

@Jethro said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

With this mornings news, new line up should be

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- McCullar

F- KJ Adams

C- Dickinson

Bench (Rotation level minutes)

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

F- Braun

A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.

Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.

We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.

How many KU games did you watch last year? You wouldn't be saying that if you watched Kevin play.

Ha. Watched em all Jethro, like i've done basically since the 80s. Last year was last year. We have basically a new team this year, and we need different skills.

I was hoping for a true, volume shooter to help space the floor, give us a chance at making some 3s next year. that's all. Kevin is not that guy, but brings other skills. i appreciate his skills on defense, but he's not a good fit for this team offensively IMO. that's all.

@dylans said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

McCullar is a class act. I don’t know if he balances out some of the character issues on the team, but he goes a long way towards bringing me back in the fold. I’m probably in the minority, but I’d rather take a moderately less talented guy with sterling character over the stereotypical a-hole blue chipper.

I do think you can win a championship with Kevin playing 35 minutes a game.

Hard to disagree. Seems like a strong character guy.

I'm not going to get too hung up on whether Kev shoots 30 or 35% from 3. At his volume last year that difference would be... 15 points (he scored 364). He's such an asset otherwise that those 15 are easily made up vs a sharpshooter who can't guard, rebound, handle, or move without the ball like Kev.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

I'm not going to get too hung up on whether Kev shoots 30 or 35% from 3. At his volume last year that difference would be... 15 points (he scored 364). He's such an asset otherwise that those 15 are easily made up vs a sharpshooter who can't guard, rebound, handle, or move without the ball like Kev.

I don't put much stock in preseason computer rankings especially since they can't really factor in coaching but Kevin's return really moved the needle with some models that were down on KU. All these models had guys like Chris Johnson playing way to much however.

@BShark no two ways about it, he fills our biggest need. We needed more skill from the 3/4 spot.

The following my my guess of the rotation and minutes:
1) Harris (32 mpg) / Morris (8)
2) Morris (18 mpg) / Elmarko (11) / Timberlake (11)
3) McCullar (23 mpg) / Timberlake (15) / Elmarko (2)
4) KJ Adams (22 mpg) / Marcus Adams (9) / McCullar (9)
5) Dickinson (32 mpg) / KJ Adams (8)

In games where we have foul trouble we will see Braun, McDowell, or Johnson get minutes as well.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Jethro said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

With this mornings news, new line up should be

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- McCullar

F- KJ Adams

C- Dickinson

Bench (Rotation level minutes)

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

F- Braun

A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.

Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.

We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.

How many KU games did you watch last year? You wouldn't be saying that if you watched Kevin play.

Ha. Watched em all Jethro, like i've done basically since the 80s. Last year was last year. We have basically a new team this year, and we need different skills.

I was hoping for a true, volume shooter to help space the floor, give us a chance at making some 3s next year. that's all. Kevin is not that guy, but brings other skills. i appreciate his skills on defense, but he's not a good fit for this team offensively IMO. that's all.

We had 1 clutch player on this team last year. When you needed the dagger basket, you went to him, and he delivered. When we needed a stop, he found a way to deliver. WE weren't even the same team when he wasn't on the court- it was so obvious, it was ridiculous. He guarded the best player every freaking' night. There were many game night chats on here when we marveled at his performance. The kid is just flat a winner. So, that's why I asked if you'd actually seen a KU game last year. Because it's hard for me to imagine you didn't see that being a fan that "never misses a game". Kevin McCullar was our best player last year, period.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Jethro said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

With this mornings news, new line up should be

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- McCullar

F- KJ Adams

C- Dickinson

Bench (Rotation level minutes)

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

F- Braun

A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.

Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.

We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.

How many KU games did you watch last year? You wouldn't be saying that if you watched Kevin play.

Ha. Watched em all Jethro, like i've done basically since the 80s. Last year was last year. We have basically a new team this year, and we need different skills.

I was hoping for a true, volume shooter to help space the floor, give us a chance at making some 3s next year. that's all. Kevin is not that guy, but brings other skills. i appreciate his skills on defense, but he's not a good fit for this team offensively IMO. that's all.

You will see some different things from him this year. It's going to be very fun to see what Bill tinkers up with Hunter. Hunter is not just a guy to dump it into down low. He is versatile. Kev is going to really be able to cut to the basket.

There is a lot to be excited about but the excitement is rightly tempered by the need for some players to improve their shooting / expand their offensive toolbox in the off-season.

Juan needs to be a threat from deep. Can he become a 33% shooter from 3?

Kevin needs to be more consistent from three and be dependable for some mid-range shots that JWill delivered.

KJ also needs to deliver more points from mid-range. But he should be the one player who isn’t required to acquire a transformative skill. He can make a comfortable living off rebounds and tips with Hunter picking up a lot of inside scoring responsibility.

Speaking of Hunter — he can’t be a bust. I expect great things, but he’s a bit of an unknown until we see him play in the system. He has to score prolifically. Period.

The fifth is a wing. This is the position of highest uncertainty. Whoever it is needs to be a threat from deep — no less than 30% from 3. No one will replace Grady but this player has to make sure we aren’t longing for Grady.

So the question is not just if we have one guy that can be a deep threat (while holding all the usual defensive responsibilities, etc etc) but also, can two guys develop into a reliable threat as well?

@bskeet Juan is career 39% from 3 so I’m guessing yes on that

@FarmerJayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@bskeet Juan is career 39% from 3 so I’m guessing yes on that

Good point — I should say - needs to stay in the 33% range on much higher volume. And this will only get harder if there isn’t 1 or 2 other deep threats.

Terio's shooting form is excellent and he shot 41% down the stretch for Texas. He could be a breakout candidate.

@bskeet I'm very against KJ from midrange though. I think that's bad offense and his shot is a hot mess. Junkyard dog role is perfect for him.

Another update! Tex predicted this earlier in the thread. came true. I wouldn't be surprised if he used Morris as our sixth man/spark plug, and put Elmarko in the lineup, surrounded by experience.

STARTING FIVE

G- Harris

G- Morris

F- McCullar

F- KJ Adams (would prefer to see a shooting option here, but likely not happening with Self)

C- Dickinson

Bench

G- Jackson

G- Timberlake

F- Marcus Adams

Deep Bench

G- Johnson

G- McDowell

F- Braun

Juan/Timberlake/Kev/KJ/Hunter as things sit imo

@BShark

I think it’s

Juan

Morris

Timberlake

Kevin

Hunter

If we get Nelson then one of Morris and Timberlake is out and I’m guessing Timberlake because the remy spark plug

@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@BShark

I think it’s

Juan

Morris

Timberlake

Kevin

Hunter

If we get Nelson then one of Morris and Timberlake is out and I’m guessing Timberlake because the remy spark plug

I think it will move to that later in the year but that Bill will try KJ as the starting 4 first.

@BShark said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@BShark

I think it’s

Juan

Morris

Timberlake

Kevin

Hunter

If we get Nelson then one of Morris and Timberlake is out and I’m guessing Timberlake because the remy spark plug

I think it will move to that later in the year but that Bill will try KJ as the starting 4 first.

you not thinking El Marko might break that starting line up ? - -I think he has a chance

It's gonna be Juan, Kev, KJ, Hunter and who cares

Edit: + whoever can rebound

Juan, Elmarko, Kev, KJ, Hunter by end of season.

@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Juan, Elmarko, Kev, KJ, Hunter by end of season.

Looking to win games 35-30 I see.

@DanR said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

It's gonna be Juan, Kev, KJ, Hunter and who cares

Edit: + whoever can rebound

Think it’s gonna be tough to get any of those 4 out of the starting line up.

Juan, Kev, and KJ could make the all bill self team for guys that “get it” whatever “it” is that makes self want to play guys.

Those guys with an actual big behind them that will allow them to be more aggressive guarding the ball and getting into passing lanes is going to be fun and create a fair bit of its own offense even if they can’t shoot.

Juando/Morris/McCullar will be the best defensive guard trio in the country.

@benshawks08 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@DanR said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

It's gonna be Juan, Kev, KJ, Hunter and who cares

Edit: + whoever can rebound

Think it’s gonna be tough to get any of those 4 out of the starting line up.

Juan, Kev, and KJ could make the all bill self team for guys that “get it” whatever “it” is that makes self want to play guys.

Those guys with an actual big behind them that will allow them to be more aggressive guarding the ball and getting into passing lanes is going to be fun and create a fair bit of its own offense even if they can’t shoot.

Bill's recruiting actions tell me otherwise with KJ. Contacting every available 4 man with a pulse lately. Now, we'll see if he actually goes ahead and gets one.

Ahahahaha ignore me. KJ will be playing massive minutes next year.

@BShark you talking about this? 🐦 View Tweet?s=46&t=PfvO214bW1XkHtm9eUlx9A

I see we're at the "Merv is a top 30 recruit" part of the offseason

@benshawks08 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@BShark you talking about this? 🐦 View Tweet?s=46&t=PfvO214bW1XkHtm9eUlx9A

Shay has me blocked.

@FarmerJayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

I see we're at the "Merv is a top 30 recruit" part of the offseason

Bill is making me consider cracking open a beer.

@BShark said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

I see we're at the "Merv is a top 30 recruit" part of the offseason

Bill is making me consider cracking open a beer.

I recommend The Athletic for weekday consumption. Their golden and IPA are very good. Plus no booze and only 60 calories!

@BShark said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@FarmerJayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

I see we're at the "Merv is a top 30 recruit" part of the offseason

Bill is making me consider cracking open a beer.

Do we think the organization of this flyer has anything to do with the starting lineup?

🐦 View Tweet?s=46&t=PfvO214bW1XkHtm9eUlx9A

@benshawks08 how could you not?

@benshawks08 I think that'll be the lineup but it's just fan created stuff. So I wouldn't read into it on its own.

I think that lineup is close, but maybe more like this:

PG Furphy

SG Furphy

SF Furphy

PF Furphy

C Furphy

Prediction

Juan/Terio/Kev/KJ/Hunter

Bench minutes most to least
Marko/Timberlake/Furph/Parker

Furph could end up a little higher really depends how he acclimates.

Outside of the backup 5, we feel DEEP. I love that we have a guard like Elmarko to bring off the bench too. Sherron Collins '08 type of role.

@BShark said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Prediction

Juan/Terio/Kev/KJ/Hunter

Bench minutes most to least
Marko/Timberlake/Furph/Parker

Furph could end up a little higher really depends how he acclimates.

Think this is how it will play out to a T. Marko being your 6th man but good enough to start. Timberlake your microwave Moss/JCL guy off the bench when you need him. Furphy is the guy that changes your ceiling based on how quickly he acclimates. Parker will be an important piece even as the 9th guy. Guys get into foul trouble especially Hunter and that's the next guy up. Hoping he's capable of being our Prison Mitch.

And we're off again! maybe.

PG Dajuan Harris

SG Elmarko Jackson

SF Kevin McCullar (almost forgot about him!)

PF KJ Adams

C Hunter Dickinson

Bench

Smalls: Nick Timberlake / Johnny Furphy

Bigs: Zach Clemence / Parker Braun /

** Even more concern about 3 pt shooting now. And the usual backup PG issue.

And concerned about injuries, especially season-ending.

Yea, depth an issue.
Hoping Furphy is playable. Maybe Elmarko and Timberlake can fake it and give Dajuan some rest now and then.

@rockchalkjayhawk I heard that Zach is red shirting.

Anyone know if Chris Carter could be playable this year? He's the walk on who transferred in from Cal State Northridge?

@AsadZ said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk I heard that Zach is red shirting.

That was the chatter early on about Zach. Sounds like that’s a bit wobbly now?

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Anyone know if Chris Carter could be playable this year? He's the walk on who transferred in from Cal State Northridge?

We have sooooo many guys on the roster. I can’t keep track.

@rockchalkjayhawk Below is article from June 20th:

Head coach Bill Self announced Tuesday afternoon that Zach Clemence, a 6-foot-10 incoming junior forward who averaged 1.8 points and 1.6 rebounds per game in sparse playing time over two seasons, is returning to Kansas rather than transferring to UC Santa Barbara.

“I had a conversation last week with Zach,” Self said. “He contacted me and we were discussing all things going on with him, future, transferring, all the stuff, and he asked me would it be a possibility if he could return, and we discussed what we both thought would be best for his future basketball-wise.”

Self and Clemence decided that he will redshirt during the upcoming season. Self said that Clemence could have been eligible to play immediately because he never officially started classes or practices in Santa Barbara. UCSB, following questions Monday from the Journal-World about Clemence’s enrollment status, deleted an Instagram post from May 23 stating that Clemence had officially signed.

@AsadZ said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk Below is article from June 20th:

Head coach Bill Self announced Tuesday afternoon that Zach Clemence, a 6-foot-10 incoming junior forward who averaged 1.8 points and 1.6 rebounds per game in sparse playing time over two seasons, is returning to Kansas rather than transferring to UC Santa Barbara.

“I had a conversation last week with Zach,” Self said. “He contacted me and we were discussing all things going on with him, future, transferring, all the stuff, and he asked me would it be a possibility if he could return, and we discussed what we both thought would be best for his future basketball-wise.”

Self and Clemence decided that he will redshirt during the upcoming season. Self said that Clemence could have been eligible to play immediately because he never officially started classes or practices in Santa Barbara. UCSB, following questions Monday from the Journal-World about Clemence’s enrollment status, deleted an Instagram post from May 23 stating that Clemence had officially signed.

Yup, i recall that. I read a story a few weeks back where it was still seeming like a red shirt, but Self left the door a tiny bit open in case of injury or a new circumstance. So, likely a red shirt, but the team dynamic sometimes changes on a dime! ha.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article277972153.html ↗

I'm kind of pissed at Bill Self for messing with 'our' team like this. I really don't pay attention as much as many of you do, so I had zero clue that Arterio was such a troubled kid. I was excited watching one of the summer matches thinking this kid has some flair that's going to be fun to watch. About 5 days ago I see an instagram post supposedly quoting Bill Self saying this was his most talented team ever. Don't know if the quote was real or if he's still saying that, but our top 2 -4 preseason ranking might not be coming after this. I hope the young man gets help before things get worse for him.

@wissox FWIW #1 pre-season ranking by every reputable ranking system -according to the last espn article I read.

I think many of us were less than impressed with this decision from day one. Too troubled. I appreciate wanting to help people, but hedge your bet.

Thanks, I hadn't looked, just assumed we were in that range.

I know with every bone in my body that Bill's gonna be Bill, but what if...

PG Harris

G Elmarko

G Timberlake

SF McCullar

C Dickinson

I don't really see a reason for KJ to start. What will he provide? We're all convinced he's not a great rebounder, right? He can't shoot. So, that leaves defense and lobs. Nothing wrong with that, but i think starting another scoring guard will help us more than KJ starting will.

I know, wasted argument.

Edit to say that McCullar can provide defense, rebounding, toughness.

Losing Morris is a problem. I don’t see anyone left in the portal + it’s too late. Wondering if we get all 3 schollies credited back this year? Or 2.5?

@rockchalkjayhawk Self will start KJ at 4, I'd move Kevin to 3 and KJ to 4.

Timerlake coming from bench.

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

I know with every bone in my body that Bill's gonna be Bill, but what if...

PG Harris

G Elmarko

G Timberlake

SF McCullar

C Dickinson

I don't really see a reason for KJ to start. What will he provide? We're all convinced he's not a great rebounder, right? He can't shoot. So, that leaves defense and lobs. Nothing wrong with that, but i think starting another scoring guard will help us more than KJ starting will.

I know, wasted argument.

Edit to say that McCullar can provide defense, rebounding, toughness.

It is a wasted argument because Adams is a better player than Timberlake amd Self isn't going to bench KJ at this point.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

I know with every bone in my body that Bill's gonna be Bill, but what if...

PG Harris

G Elmarko

G Timberlake

SF McCullar

C Dickinson

I don't really see a reason for KJ to start. What will he provide? We're all convinced he's not a great rebounder, right? He can't shoot. So, that leaves defense and lobs. Nothing wrong with that, but i think starting another scoring guard will help us more than KJ starting will.

I know, wasted argument.

Edit to say that McCullar can provide defense, rebounding, toughness.

It is a wasted argument because Adams is a better player than Timberlake amd Self isn't going to bench KJ at this point.

Fun with lineups!

I dunno much about Timberlake to be honest. He looked more athletic than I thought he’d be in Puerto Rico. If he can shoot, to me he’s potentially more valuable to the team than KJ in this lineup.

Also if you start all 4 guards you have nobody behind them. I’m super high on Jamari but that’s more 2 years from now.

Jayhawk Slant quotes HCBS as saying they are open to bringing someone in at Christmas and are looking into it.

@Gorilla72 thinking redshirt, but break glass in case of emergency guy there

@FarmerJayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@Gorilla72 thinking redshirt, but break glass in case of emergency guy there

Need another real practice body for sure.

Arterio has royally screwed this team over. Still didn't have great depth even if he was here. I will never understand this past offseason from a roster management standpoint.

@BeddieKU23 which part don’t you understand/like about the roster construction? - Bill ran off the less talented players and the ones who did not want to fight for minutes ran with their tail between their legs. Then it seemed like take any talented player that wants to show up. I feel like Udeh and Zuby both leaving was an unexpected problem. The guards recruited should be adequate, would’ve been better with someone of Morris talent on the bench. - preseason #1 can’t be all bad!

I don’t like the idea of transfers. I don’t like the roster churn, but it is what it is.

Roster depth is not great but should be ok as long as the gaurds don't get injured. Probably won't have as good of practice bodies but who's to say how much impact that has. Bill never plays more than 8-9 at the end of the season and we at least have that. Can't say I'm not nervous with Kevin's injury history though

@dylans

I feel the margin for error especially in the backcourt is basically banking on no injuries occurring which is fool's gold. One of the biggest things that has plagued Harris in his time here is playing too many minutes over the years. They brought in Morris and now he's gone, and it ends up being a really stupid move now. Hopefully Elmarko is as good as they say because if he can't handle some of the ball handling duties what is KU going to do? I can't imagine Timberlake is an option for ball handling.

Going into the season we have 9 scholarship players (if Zach stays with red-shirt), 3 of them are freshman & two of the transfers are taking significant leaps up in competition. This offseason was a mess imo.

@BeddieKU23
Pretty much any other school not named duke or Kentucky is worried about their #3-5 starters not just depth. Were spoiled.

This team is going to start the season ranked #1. It is wild to me all the bitching and moaning this off season.

In part we were choosing not to fill the roster due to the self imposed reductions. The Terio thing obviously hurts a lot but we are still preseason top 5 (and #1 in some places) without him. Wish we would have been able to snag Murrell but that's in the past. We move on, we ball.

Murrell or Mgbako would be great right now….

@Woodrow hyper analysis welcome to the off-season. We are going to labor to score, struggle to create off the bounce and besides Timberlake have zero proven outside shooters.

We have our warts but will still be right there when it’s all said and done

@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

Murrell or Mgbako would be great right now….

Well, Mgbako or Kevin I know who I'm taking every time.

Im still ready for Kevin to blow away expectations with nobody focusing on him.

@approxinfinity From what I saw in Puerto Rico if our offense flows through Kevin or he’s trying to go 1 on 1 things won’t end well

Play through Hunter and KJ - let them create

@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:

@approxinfinity From what I saw in Puerto Rico if our offense flows through Kevin or he’s trying to go 1 on 1 things won’t end well

Play through Hunter and KJ - let them create

Don't know about playing through KJ that sounds like a disaster.

Biggest key for Kevin is staying healthy...which he has never been able to do across an entire season.

@BShark Last year when he was in attack mode he’s catch it around either the top of the key and go right by his man to the right or drive and kick. No 5 can stay in front of him heck same for most 4’s

He also catches it around the elbow and has the same process….attack and either score or kick it

Play through him because I don’t trust our guards to create anything off of the bounce

Juan and Marko will be fine.

@BShark Marko was very passive in Puerto Rico and Juan gets assists not from attacking but more ball movement around the perimeter

I’m not sold on that yet. Again hyper analysis we are gonna be good and I’m excited to see Hunter with a legit coach

Last year, the starting 5 played waaaay too many minutes and it showed late in the year. As long as self can continuously go 7-8 deep, it is looking good. If not (injuries, grades, whatever), it may get exciting. Sounds obvious but last year showed what happens without a decent bench.

@BeddieKU23 There are holes in the roster and warts will show for sure. I think they should be competitive every night though as long as the effort is there both by the players and coaches. But I don’t really know enough about the current roster to say anything with 100% certainty. We’ll know more by conference.

@dylans

I'm here to see how it all plays out. I tend to be critical in the preseason and identify what I think are the biggest things that can hold KU back. I know Self will mold them into a very good regular season team but the schedule is difficult, and we really have to bank on some injury luck at certain positions.

I agree that the roster churn and transfers this past year really zapped my enthusiasm for the sport. Games can't start soon enough imo

@Gorilla72

That's going to play out again.

Juan, Kev, Hunter, KJ are going to play the most.

Elmarko, Nick, Braun, Furphy the next 4. Mari sprinkled in as needed.

The next 4 has zero collective minutes played at KU. There will be growing pains and a likely drop off to the bench.