🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Need belt to ass today. Would love to see Rylan and Kease play well too.

@BShark When a Mildcat comes along, you must whip it. Whip it good!

I’ve got dad duties and will catch the game late. Here in spirit on tape delay. Rock Chalk!

@approxinfinity lol, first wissox as poet laureate and now you as lyrics master… gotta like a little creative language fun mixed in with all the stats and observations. Go forward, Move ahead, Try to detect it, It's not too late, To whip our season, Into shape

This is a must win game

@BShark They all are must win games against KSU!

True

UCF up nine on Houston at UCF

Closing in on tip off. Crowd stinks a bit.

I don't expect KU to lose this game. But I didn't expect them to lose to WVU either. If they do lose...hello, rock bottom.

Flory starting, odd choice.

You mean great choice!

I’ve been looking over previous box scores to see what it takes for KU to win.

Seems obvious, but a light review says we need Hunter and Zeke to have solid games, plus one other guy to step up to double figures.

Please get Hunter going!

I would of thought Rylan

@BShark said in KState game thread:

Flory starting, odd choice.

Self just can’t help himself. Shooter to open the floor? Nah.

Ok, inside game it is. I haven’t followed the opposition yet, so hope that’s the right game plan.

@SlimShaddy54 I'll take either quite frankly. We've been best when Flory is playing alongside HD. Problem is foul trouble.

@BShark

And how they win hopefully is what I'm paying attention to

@MoonwalkMafia ya, that's what I was going to say - -just thought they would of brought Flory off the bench in caase of foul trouble. You start them both and foul trouble-- then what

It's not often that we see Self's hand get forced, where he has to go without one of his pet favorites. This should be interesting.

I’m gonna hit the DVR later for this one. Off to my Saturday walk. Rock Freaking Chalk!

This needs to be a 20+ point win

@BShark

Think it's matchup based. Hopefully can set the tone for rebounding and defense and rotate him when needed. Can't get in foul trouble though, will force our hand even more

@rockchalkjayhawk said in KState game thread:

@BShark said in KState game thread:

Flory starting, odd choice.

Self just can’t help himself. Shooter to open the floor? Nah.

Ok, inside game it is. I haven’t followed the opposition yet, so hope that’s the right game plan.

1 shooter in the starting line-up. Insane.

@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:

@BShark

Think it's matchup based. Hopefully can set the tone for rebounding and defense and rotate him when needed. Can't get in foul trouble though, will force our hand even more

I think at most we can play 10 minutes of two bigs.

@BShark

Bill probably disagrees but yeah it's not wise given our injury concerns down low

Self probably thinks he needs to have defenders to cover up for Hunter Dickinson being slow, but you aren't going to win very many games scoring between 50 and 60 points.

Boards!

Zeke and Flory nice combo

Good stuff from Flory!

I wish Zeke had another year to play with Peterson

good start

Ucf up on Houston early 2nd half

@BShark said in KState game thread:

@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:

@BShark

Think it's matchup based. Hopefully can set the tone for rebounding and defense and rotate him when needed. Can't get in foul trouble though, will force our hand even more

I think at most we can play 10 minutes of two bigs.

Against K-State in Lawrence we can do whatever we want. They are so bad. But against real teams this applies.

Let’s run these fools right out of the gym

I don't like this game. I miss KJ taking mid range jumpers.

MAYOOOO

Zeke 🔥

Mayo and Peterson would be so so good. I hope Self is able to find a guard like Mayo in the portal for next season.

Another time out for cats already, poor kitties

Great Start difference is - - it's K? State lol

K state should uh...really stop shooting 3s

Great energy to start, flory maybe better than KJ by the end of conference season if he isn’t already

@KirkIsMyHinrich We will get a highly touted guard in the portal. The question is whether he ends up being a Mayo or a Timberlake.

@kjayhawks Oh he already is. He probably was in November

Mayo well on track for his 6th 20+ game of the year

Honoring bechard! Vb!

Well there goes the shutout.

@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:

Mayo well on track for his 6th 20+ game of the year

🤫 transfers don’t play well for Bill

I'm slightly behind but a 2 TD lead at TV timeout 1 is a good way to start.

Juan!

Griffen in the game now

Aj!

Again

Love that rebounding effort!!!

Nice oop

Good effort by AJ

Storr with excellent effort out there so far

Air Storr

Storr never beat Hawkins last year. Looking like he'll get his chance today.

The kid just dribbles totally unaware of the clock?

Bidunga just earned a spot on Shaqtin the fool!

4 non-shooters. Why is Rylan out of the game so quick? Just dumb rotations

Storr is just broken right now. That top of the key 3 was money last year. He just totally bricked that one.

Hunt has to make some of those shots here. Still don’t like switching with bigs wide open layups galore just like ISU game

Got to give it to Hunter a bit closer to the basket

defensive lapse's letting these clowns back in the game.

Hunter rushing way out on the perimeter D has lead to more easy layups than I can count this season

@SlimShaddy54 That and forcing the ball inside to HD. K state's just collapsing on him with triple teams. Can't score that way

Juan!

You are ahead of me by quite a bit.

Good boards!

Man it’s amazing how we can rebound if we go after the ball. I could get used to this

Ugh!

Wow 15 pt game and now it's 8. Team cannot shoot

Ya Rakeese Passmore can go ahead and take a seat for the rest of the day

K/State on a 20-12 run since we started out 20-4

Passmore why

Momentum changed quickly

@AsadZ

On both ends struggling

What happened to ZM

Bad lineup there. If Passmore hits one it wouldn’t have seemed so bad though

Never thought Bill would use two timeouts in the first half of this game.

Not a big Diggy fan. Would like Moore to get his minutes - he makes up for it on the defensive end.

@DanR I was honestly surprised he managed to hit the rim. K State wants him to shoot that shot. Same with Dajuan and Shak Moore shooting them

Diggy can't shoot either. Don't get it

Get Diggy off my screen now.

Passmore and Flory both overhelped on back to back possessions and gave them easy buckets

Diggy and Passmore very bad on both ends

Hunt having another awful outing

Good big man passing there. Need chemistry to develop.

Needed that

Curious why only Mayo can shoot?

@dylans said in KState game thread:

Curious why only Mayo can shoot.

Oh lots of guys can shoot, only Zeke can make.

Should be up 25 but ya know

tons of fouls to give, no way that guy should have been able to go full court like that.

I feel like we are letting a bad team hang around with some really interesting line ups.

We're lucky K-State sucks and has missed a lot of open 3's or this would be close.

Anyone know how many minutes Griffen got in the first half?

Well we started out really well then some questionable rotation change

Passmore and Coit provided nothing. I'd be fine with giving all their minutes to Griffen

@MoonwalkMafia said in KState game thread:

Anyone know how many minutes Griffen got in the first half?

9

@KirkIsMyHinrich Well sh*t

If Bill Self is serious we won't see Storr and Diggy until the under 8 of the 2nd half.

@BShark said in KState game thread:

If Bill Self is serious we won't see Storr and Diggy until the under 8 of the 2nd half.

Mmm Diggy, yes. Storr I wouldn't mind

Both were -5 in the first half. Storr in 5 minutes and Diggy managed it in 3 minutes...

I think Hunt played decent just missed some shots he has to make. Hard to complain with 8 and 6 in a half. I thought Juan arguably played his best half of the season. Really just need to stay away for Diggy and Passmore if they are just gonna chuck up 3s every time they touch it. Storr wasn’t great but was aggressive at least

X having a field day on how switching with our bigs leads to wide open dunks and layups. Not sure how at this point Bill and staff can’t see it at this point. Just switch guards, not that hard.

How did we beat UCF by 80 on the road again?

@MoonwalkMafia I'm not going to dog on Passmore to much already , another case of where Coach just hasn't played him that much --Word seems to be , he is going to be ok, kids a freshman, and little floor time - - isn't doing anymore then others missing open shots

Hurley losing his cool in Storrs right now.

I think he's right.

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in KState game thread:

How did we beat UCF by 80 on the road again?

Played hard, we’d likely have one loss if we played hard

KSU is running their offense smoothly and getting open shots if they are down it's not because of our defense.

@KirkIsMyHinrich Houston holding onto their jocks up one with twenty two . six seconds left

Creighton beats UConn.

Ucf gonna lose. Missed free throws, missed 3 and lack of effort off a miss

And yet we blew them out by what fifty three ?

We are outboarding K/State by ten , and have ten offensive boards

UCF's uni's say Space U

@SlimShaddy54 Well that's a good thing

UCF up one

@wissox cool!

Houston will have a chance to win without about 4 seconds. Half court inbounds. We really need UCF to win this one.

Wow Houston missed a one and one and they got a layup

3 sec one last shot for Houston after timeout

UCF is 12-4. I'm still amazed at how badly we beat them.

Tang is gonna go inside and try to get us in foul trouble here. Good adjustment

Houston won. Ucf is awful

Nice over the top lob to Hunter

Lookin good

Great pass to Moore

Great start by Hunt, that’s what we need sir

Great pass by HD there

Hunt finally woke up. Great dish

Hunter came to eat in the 2nd half

Shak with the hops.

Anyone see Mick Cronins press conference about all the travel UCLA now has to do? Classic.

Kentucky down 7 late at home

@wissox

Did you see his epic rant last week after a game?

Uconn lost by 5 at home to Creighton

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in KState game thread:

How did we beat UCF by 80 on the road again?

Dawkins is their coach

@BShark lol

Storr gets abused on defense every time he enters and usually immediately.

I think Storr gets scored over on every post possession

Rare Kansas turnover. I like that phrase. The rare part, anyway.

Storr comes in and IMMEDIATELY gives up a basket.

@BeddieKU23 we take a huge step backwards on defense once we go to the bench

Ok, lets go , and quit playing with these guys, teasing them thinking they have a shot. -Just bitch slap these chumps and be done with it

@MoonwalkMafia He doesn't like playing defense, he only knows one end of the floor

@SlimShaddy54 Eh, I wouldn't say he just laid down there. Hawkins seems to have the advantage over him

And again. Storr

@BeddieKU23 Yes, he's a bit unstable.

Then gets called for a foul.

Calling for a trap there is...interesting

Omg...did i just see storr hit a 3??

Yay free throws

Mayo fouled 5 times before at the rim. We will take the fts tho

That's AJ's 3rd made 3 since the Creighton debacle.

Bailed out by a bad shot

Does anyone have the +/- stats for the Jayhawks? I’m curios what Storrs would be.

The wind is howling out of the north. Temps are dropping and in my great spot at the south end of Lake Michigan there are numerous surfers out in the lake today because the waves are huge.

@dylans I bet it’s better than Griffens because he has at least scored 7 points. I’d be willing to bet everyone is positive besides Griffen, Coit and Passmore

@dylans said in KState game thread:

Does anyone have the +/- stats for the Jayhawks? I’m curios what Storrs would be.

-8

@wissox But...how? Isn't it freezing? Is this like an ice surfing thing?

Were hitting 56 % from the field-- - BUT we are giving up 48 % from the field

@tundrahok said in KState game thread:

@dylans said in KState game thread:

Does anyone have the +/- stats for the Jayhawks? I’m curios what Storrs would be.

-8

Where are you able to find that data?

/topic/13606

All the starters are +9 or better. All the bench is negative.

@tundrahok Wow

@MoonwalkMafia Wetsuits, like 4.5 microns thick. $$$. The wind just kind of pushes the small amount of ice that's formed away from where they surf.

Oops, that was a link to here! Here's the link to the box score with +/-

http://stats.statbroadcast.com/statmonitr/?id=547451&_gl=1tis6ga_gaNTg2ODAyMjIzLjE3MjU3NjA1OTY._ga_2ZWVK1X7BJ*MTczNzIxMzQwMy4xMDIuMS4xNzM3MjE5MzMzLjAuMC4w ↗

Come on Flory you gotta be smarter then that

My goodness guys wake up

Danger zone here

Alright Juan make this

@dylans I look at bleachers report for the stats during the game.

Wow that's not a foul

Clean

Good grief this team stinks

That was a bad defensive sequence

Ugh griffen

Nice play by Griffen for once. Storr made his first positive defensive play of the year

HUnk can dunk.

Nice pass by rylan to hunt

Hunter dunk alert 🚨 ‼️

Nice D by AJ

Lock down on defense and put this game on ice

@kjayhawks that lock down defense has taken a break. back to the oh-lay defense

Tang was getting to excited, we need to settle him down!

I may be in the minority, I usually am but I like Tang.

@wissox ugh🤮

Hunt wears his scars well

Stay down

@Crimsonorblue22 Your hatred for KState is clouding your judgment on him. Seems like a nice guy, he gives glory to God and has tried to get his fans to stop with the stupid FKU chant.

Shot fake worked!

That was off k state but whatever

5 second karma

Mayo with a little mustard off the glass!

Wide open storr, ugh

@StLJhawk With the clock on our side i'd rather just run our offense for 30 seconds

I really like Zeke (can’t say that about mayo 🤢) but he isn’t earning as many floor burns as Id like to see.

Here we go with the pathetic defense again

This team is charmin soft.

@BShark They're just bad

Smh guess we will sweat one out at home to a 7-9 team smh. The effort on the glass isn’t there like it was the first 5 minutes

@BShark I sense a NIL deal!

Hunt is gassed

Can’t defend

How are the cats back in this? Sheesh

I hate how we dribble so much offensively

We have accomplished absolutely fricking nothing today. These guys forget how to play ANY defense -Hanni & Gurly talking about how you don't realize how much you miss someone until they are not there, talking about how vital KJ's defense is being able to guard any position. KU not playing any defense

Juan is quietly playing one of his best games of the year.

Refs refuse to call a foul

Bad shot by ZM

@AsadZ said in KState game thread:

Bad shot by ZM

It was, he was also fouled on the drive.

This game was 68-54. Yikes.

Makes sense this is who they are

These guy shouldn't even be in this game, Ku has just got major problems, Don't know how many times gotten beat easy open shots -- no defense , none at all

To much leash on bench

I decided to hop on with 4 min to go. Score would indicate its been a slog…

@approxinfinity

Was 14 pt lead until we stopped caring besides juan

@approxinfinity we have actually been up double digits about 75% of the game. We just aren’t playing defense and letting them hang around

@approxinfinity Every time KU had a chance to extend it to 16-20 we'd turn it over and K state would score

Flory and Shak play well?

Walk?

Hunts played well

These refs have been allergic to calling fouls on k st guards

Huh Shak and Flory seem to be least impactful of starters at least in scoring column

Better make these

@approxinfinity said in KState game thread:

I decided to hop on with 4 min to go. Score would indicate its been a slog…

We were playing well then let them back in it.

Cool, with y’alls endorsements I will go back and watch the full tape, good to know.

Flory stop trying to take it coast to coast

Perfect

Bs call there

@kjayhawks said in KState game thread:

Flory stop trying to take it coast to coast

I find it quite entertaining!

Flory that was big

Tang dramatically underperforming with this squad. Better than I thought the cats would be based on their record.

This will be such a different game in mancrappy.

Refusing to put the game away

@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:

This will be such a different game in mancrappy.

I’m worried we will get beat there especially with how we have looked on the road the last 2 years

@kjayhawks said in KState game thread:

Bs call there

Interesting reffing today

@kjayhawks Honestly think a loss in manhattan goes without saying

Some of these reviews are pretty inane, seems clear goaltending to me.

@kjayhawks said in KState game thread:

@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:

This will be such a different game in mancrappy.

I’m worried we will get beat there especially with how we have looked on the road the last 2 years

Oh no doubt they will lose there

We will win there!

25 pts for hunt

Big games from 3 starters. Needed it all

Negative Ned's!

Make FTs now please

The starters have been fine today, Bill Self said he found a bench. Todays game has determined that was lie (Maury Voice)

Who feels better about our team today after this showing ?- -I know I sure don't

Methinks that maybe this game proves that Bill Self was right about KJ and people on the internet were wrong

Enjoy the win today. Better then losing.

@SlimShaddy54 felt pretty good the first 15, but then…

@StLJhawk Our defense just stinks

@Crimsonorblue22 said in KState game thread:

We will win there!

If KJ is out I doubt it.

Both sides can be right. It's about how many minutes he plays and the impact that has on the offense. Can't expect the bench to all of a sudden be the reason for improvement. Would take time to see

@BShark ok, Ned! 🤨

RCJHKU

@Jhawk69 that's what Hanni and Gurley were saying, KJ brings that energy and the kid can play defense for sure

@Crimsonorblue22 said in KState game thread:

@BShark ok, Ned! 🤨

We have no answer for Coleman when Flory is on the bench. Was a big issue all game. Made KSU's offense look good.

Fly by shake, such a stand up coach!

Ugly, but I’ll take it. Good guys win again

@Crimsonorblue22 purple? More like blur-ple

I said if we lost I was done with this team and then I said if we couldn’t at least win by double digits it would feel like a loss. Haha we win by 10, 2-0 on the day my son’s team won this morning. Let’s go Chiefs!

Nice. I coached 6-7 year olds this morning. It doesnt get any better. Savoring it.

@BeddieKU23 What would be the point of calling for others to play instead of KJ if people didn't believe that doing so would make us better?

A conference win is a win. By 30 or by 1. We all know this after watching decades of KU ball. B12 is gonna be a dogfight as per usual.

@SlimShaddy54 True! I sync Hanni and Gurley to my tv every game.

Raftery told Hunter “great game and didnt take a 3, Bill will be happy!” Lol

Probably the best game they have played at home in conference play so far. Can only get better i hope

Hey Ned's, I said Juan and kj love KU, Hunt does too, he always says Rock Chalk!

Our formula going forward is we have three scorers Hunt, Mayo and Juan and we need more points from them every game like this as there is none coming elsewhere. I would say 55 - 60 which they can get. Our bench is just not going to hit threes like I hoped. This way we will be in any game and that's all we can ask. Good home win.

Ha and Uconn lost. Icing.

@Jhawk69 said in KState game thread:

@BeddieKU23 What would be the point of calling for others to play instead of KJ if people didn't believe that doing so would make us better?

I honestly don’t think KJ would’ve made a big difference in this one either way. We had every chance to run them out of the gym. We probably win by a little more with on defense with how bad Passmore, Griffen and Storr were on that end.

AJ with 17 minutes, Rylan with 12 minutes and no shot attempts. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Hunter with 25 points (12/19), 8 boards, 3 assists. His defense sucks but he can offense

@KirkIsMyHinrich he can offend?

Zeke with 24 (7/12) 5 boards, 3 assists. He is our best player.

@approxinfinity said in KState game thread:

@KirkIsMyHinrich he can offend?

Judging by the comments I read about him from neutrals every game, he can.

@KirkIsMyHinrich ya really not a lot to complain about with the starters outside of some of the expected freshman mistakes of Flory. The bench was just flat out gross today. Storr at least scored a little so it helped but defensively that ain’t gonna cut it.

@KirkIsMyHinrich By far , hands down

@KirkIsMyHinrich This played out exactly like I said- - I called out and said after the ISU game I said watch Dickinson will come back with twenty and twelve , because that what he does.

Plays well against Average bigs, - -average teams, but you put him up against equally as tall/talented Big's -- just like against ISU he is pretty much a non factor. - -Let's see if he will produce for us like this against Houston , or when ISU comes back around again, don't gt your hopes up

I’m a little disappointed in the effort. I didn’t have as much of a problem with playing time (except that stretch with Kease and Diggy) but there were way too many lapses. Giving up 45 in the second to an absolute garbage team is straight bad. Gotta clean that up before Wednesday.

@FarmerJayhawk said in KState game thread:

I’m a little disappointed in the effort. I didn’t have as much of a problem with playing time (except that stretch with Kease and Diggy) but there were way too many lapses. Giving up 45 in the second to an absolute garbage team is straight bad. Gotta clean that up before Wednesday.

Notably we did not see Diggy in the 2nd half.

We can’t play two negative guys at the same time. Gotta sub one guy at a time. What r your thoughts about rylan?

@Crimsonorblue22 said in KState game thread:

We can’t play two negative guys at the same time. Gotta sub one guy at a time. What r your thoughts about rylan?

Had some good moments today. Drive and kick out but the guy he passed to missed wide open looks. Was surprised he played less than Storr.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in KState game thread:

We can’t play two negative guys at the same time. Gotta sub one guy at a time. What r your thoughts about rylan?

He was definitely a mixed bag. The one drive and turnover was absolutely awful but he did have the nice assist to Hunt. TCU is a better matchup for him.

They play mostly smaller around old friend Big Ern so it should be a good AJ/Griffen game. I really like our guards vs. theirs as well. Allete is the loosest cannon and Shak/Juan will really bother him. Reynolds is a lot better but those two guys are really their entire offense.

A lot of the time we don't seem to run any offense that's going to get Rylan open looks

Diggy turned down shots on couple of good looks

He seemed tentative

KU missed KJ's energy today. Giving up 74 to KSU who is flat out terrible this season. If they play like this on Wednesday, they're losing to TCU.

The defense was terrible and KU lost the game after the first media timeout. After KU went up 14-0, KSU outscored them 74-70 the rest of the game.

For me personally, there wasn't a lot to feel good about today's game if KJ ends up missing extended time.

@Texas-Hawk-10 = = I couldn't get much feel good out of this today either. Kinda puts a damper and I really don't have much expectations after today.

Our defense went back to it's old habits of just getting or giving up way to many open shots or lay ups. I mean come on let's face it K/State sucks , but they can make lay ups, open ten footers. Thank God they were not good at the free throw line, this team is just really disappointing.

Say what you want about KJ - -it showed out there today -I really like Flory but Flory and who Griffin took his spot today - -What did they score- -Eight points- - Hell KJ can do that, but I'm not getting into all that now- - let's be real this is far from a Championship team, some glaring decencies we are not that athletic, and it shows- -just kind of frustrating, depressing but it is what it is- -Seems like Zeke is the only one that can't make three's consistency. -ya sure not thumping my chest after this one. -I looked and I figured out how I think we end record. Looks like about 23-8 to me, maybe 22-9 not typical record of KU past years

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in KState game thread:

AJ with 17 minutes, Rylan with 12 minutes and no shot attempts. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

I wasn't able to watch the game, so don't know how they looked on the court, but the combined stat line is awful. As you note, 29 minutes combined. Basically a full game. 7 points. 6 shot attempts, all Storr. 2 rebounds (zero defensive). 1 assist.

Zeke Mayo Highlights vs. Kansas State (24 Pts, 5 Rebs, 3 Asts)

@sabramo19 Thanks!

On to TCU on Wednesday at Fort Worth. This is a good opportunity to pick up a needed road win. Udeh at 8 ppg, 8 rpg. 1.5 bpg.

Iowa St down 1 at half to WVU in a barn burner so far

@DCHawker If you shoot and miss and it’s a shot that Self doesn’t like…..u will be sitting next to him within seconds

I wouldn’t pull the trigger either and just try to defend and rebound

Neutered

Wish Bill would coach every player with the same favoritism, confidence and leeway and he gives Juan and KJ. Just all sorts of confidence and wry smiles when they mess up versus just being pissed every time other players aren’t legitimately perfect (meanwhile his “guys” eff up regularly and get the doors blown off them in 2.5 years more than any other Self team)

What happened? I couldn’t stay awake to watch it. BORING!

Guess we won. Doesn’t feel like it and that performance should knock us down a couple notches in the rankings.

ZEKE remains our only alpha player.

I’m glad I ain’t the only one not impressed after today

@drgnslayr you can't make that decision w/out watching it. Hunt played good, so did Juan. Flory really had a good start, got a few fouls but did help. We did miss kj's D. They got to within 6 but we made our throws. IMO we gave the bench too much leash. And as always Zeke!

Always nice to beat the sheep lovers!

Fun with the boxscore:

16-21 FTs

We attempted 21 FTs!!!! That is fantastic for us.

Of those with double digit minutes played

AJ Storr was -11 in +/-

Hunter and Zeke were 20+ point scorers / and Dajuan with 15, filling that third scorer role mostly necessary to win. Sure wish Rylan or AJ would fill this role, or be a fourth double digit scorer

@kjayhawks This is what happens when you don’t contend for your conference let alone a title

You have similar guys from the last two years rd 32 losses playing the same minutes and same way resulting in bad double digit losses to teams we shouldn’t lose to

It is sadly obvious and the fanbase sees this as well - if you’ve noticed the empty seats for home games lately

I go back to my post two weeks ago that this squad isn’t a title contender and the way this team is coached isn’t helping either. All this was supposed to be fixed by the $10M man who’s gotten his crap rocked last year

@Jhawk69

I think we need KJ but not at 28 minutes a game. Especially not that many minutes if he's going to shoot 50% from the field for a guy that doesn't shoot anywhere but from the foul line in. And for reference its 10% below his shooting % of his previous 2 yrs as a starter.

The short roll that worked last yr so much to generate o for him has been scouted out. It's a scheme issue that we are putting KJ on the perimeter in position to be lightly or not guarded at all in my opinion. It's year 2 of this and we don't see any real adjustment.

KJ probably has earned his minutes by what he's done the past 3 1/2 years but nobody does enough of what coach wants to beat him out.

When watching the game yesterday the 4 spot was a major concern.

Wednesday is a must win. This is the worst TCU team Dixon has had in his tenure perhaps.

@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:

Wednesday is a must win. This is the worst TCU team Dixon has had in his tenure perhaps.

Should be a better match-up for KJ-less KU as well. Kstate is BAD, but posed a real match-up problem with Hawkins.

@BShark

Yeah it does look like a favorable matchup at the 4. I'm surprised at the lack of talent on this frogs team tbh. Will only matter if we win though

I would love to see a little more Griffen and Storr in Fort Worth. I think we played Flory a bit too much vs KSU with Hawkins. Would like to see a little more 4 guard with the right combination in this next one. Offense seems to not flow well with Shak and Juan out so we need to do better at subbing them IMO.

@BeddieKU23 Well, we are clearly a better overall team with KJ on the floor than off. 28 minutes is not excessive. 35+ is. If Flory and Hunter are playing great then I have no problem with KJ playing fewer minutes. But if not then there is nothing wrong with 28 minutes from KJ.

@Jhawk69 i think we have the potential to be better with AJ or Rylan on the floor than KJ in stretches, if they gain some confidence.

Also, I am concerned that against athletic teams, KJ + Hunter means giving up a lot of defensive rebounds and offers much less rim protection than Bidunga.

The logic of trying to identify the impact an individual has on our team vs a combination of individuals is where I feel like Bill may have run afoul.

This falls squarely in the same bucket of “only evaluating talent and not fit”

Its a big problem when you recruitguys that have critical insurmountable weaknesses. Like Hunts mobility or KJs rebounding and shooting.

I would argue that if we are playing against athletic teams, 28 minutes for KJ could definitely be a problem if it means pairing him with Hunt and sending Bidunga unnecessarily to the pine, especially if KJ has one nonfunctional arm.

@approxinfinity That is fine to think, but the facts don't support this take. We have a significant amount of data that shows that we are better with KJ in the game than with AJ or Rylan.

@Jhawk69 I think you kind of missed the jist of my post.

I am saying we should not compare one player to another. We should compare the combination of players.

In this case, KJ + Hunter vs Rylan + Bidunga.

Not vs Rylan + Hunter.

Also, I would argue we dont have significant data because we have much more data about certain pairings than others.

In addition, I think we need to focus on certain combinations against athletic teams.

Bill Self isnt the only person allowed to point at successful outcomes and declare it “fools gold”

I see.
For better or for worse, Bill has decided to go 2-bigs this year. I don't endorse this option, for I think 4 around 1 has been established as the better option. But, on the other hand, no matter what the combination is, having KJ play the 4 helps our defense tremendously.

@Jhawk69 but KJ isnt a guard. 4 around 1 implies i think that those are 4 guards that can shoot the 3.

I guess my question is if you think 4-1 is our best option how do you reconcile that with thinking we are best with KJ at the 4? That seems contradictory. Which is better?

@approxinfinity To quote a fellow bucketeer, "I think you kind of missed the jist of my post." I never said KJ was a guard. I said that Bill wants to play 2 bigs this year and not play 4 around 1.

@Jhawk69 sorry i tried to clarify and edit my post but we are in real time :)

Also, I know there isnt an obvious answer here and i’m not trying to suggest that we need to feel all one thing or another with mutual exclusivity. I think you have identified a conflict of needs and wondering how you think we should reconcile it.

It’s been proven time and time again that Self does try to maximize the talent he has. Some guys only get short run to hide their flaws. It leaves us fans salivating for more and thinking the coach is a fool for benching whatever roll player is the flavor of the week. When given extended minutes they almost always prove to be just that - a roll player with serious holes in their game that the coach has to scheme around.

@approxinfinity That's a good question. If Rylan and AJ never get going I think the answer is pretty obvious. KJ at the 4, try to build around an elite defense and figure out ways to score enough to win games. But if Rylan and/or AJ figures it out I think things change. Maybe split time between KJ at the 4 and a 4 around 1 lineup. Or we could play things situationally. But at the end of the day, its all about tradeoffs. Is having the superior 4 around 1 structure worth the tradeoff of sacrificing KJs defense? It depends on whether another guard steps up and if so, to what extent.

@Jhawk69 i dont think we can have an elite defense with KJ and Hunt on the floor together. Not against good teams. So, in my mind, the only way to accomplish an elite defense against those teams with KJ on the floor is with Bidunga at the 5 for rebounding and rim protection.

I dont think of KJ as an elite defender because of deficiencies in those areas, unless paired with someone who is a plus in those areas.

On rewatch, I understand why Rylan didn't get a ton of run. He was very slow getting back in transition after rebounds etc...

@approxinfinity KJ is not a good rebounder, which is disappointing. The past few weeks, he has been elite at the "stop the other team from making a basket" part of defense. Hunter is a better defender than he was last year but still is not elite. Flory is a higher upside defender than Hunter but also is prone to fouls. KJ, Flory, and Hunter should all play, and the way the minutes are distributed in a given game should be determined by matchups and who is playing well.

@BShark

That's disappointing

@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:

@BShark

That's disappointing

His energy the previous few games was a lot better so I do wonder why

@approxinfinity and @Jhawk69 this is why I’m saying it’s so important to get Rylen and AJ going. There isn’t a ton of threat of us hitting threes outside of Zeke. Shak has played hard and is a good defender but offensively you only have to respect Zeke and Hunt. Most teams have 3 or 4 players with a foot in the paint against us at all times.

@kjayhawks Yes. Getting Rylan and AJ going would help a ton. I don't think anyone disagrees with this. But many simply assume that playing them more will get them going. Bill is handling them in his own way. Maybe its the right way and maybe its not, but I would trust him more than I would people on the internet.

@Jhawk69 Historically, KJ has not been a good rebounder. But he's been trending up over the season, rather significantly.

In the 3 games before he got hurt, KJ averaged 7.7 rebounds. It's disappointing it's taken this long (4th year), but if he can keep up this pace, and average 7-8 boards per game here on, I think that would reduce a lot of the criticism he's been receiving.

I'm not smart enough to figure out how to upload an image here:

But the increase in his rebounding rate looks nice.

Got to thinking/wondering--- what if ? - - What if we could of hung onto Zuby ?-- -would there of been any chance of him playing some four at KU ?-- Sure could use his scoring = -- & Rebounding -rim protection.-- Plays for St Johns ---14.5 ppg - - -8.2 rpg- - - -2 blocks per----- has 38 blocks on the year-- -- 57 % fga- - -68.9 ft %.-- I realize different position that he is playing now but I think he still would be a sweet piece , hated to see him go

@BShark said in KState game thread:

On rewatch, I understand why Rylan didn't get a ton of run. He was very slow getting back in transition after rebounds etc...

OK, so having watched Rylan play so far this season, doesn't he seem like an awkward athlete?

He has as a smooth, fluid shot, but otherwise he seems to be fighting his body when he runs around.

Dribbling is not a strength.

@Crimsonorblue22

What speaks volumes is the fact that I couldn’t stay awake watching this game. It was as flat as a Dutch pancake.

@Jhawk69 AMEN!

@drgnslayr Whatever happened to the good old days when we would just get out and run & Run & Run

@SlimShaddy54 Roy left.

@tundrahok ya that's what I was thinking exactly, miss those days

@rockchalkjayhawk said in KState game thread:

@BShark said in KState game thread:

On rewatch, I understand why Rylan didn't get a ton of run. He was very slow getting back in transition after rebounds etc...

OK, so having watched Rylan play so far this season, doesn't he seem like an awkward athlete?

He has as a smooth, fluid shot, but otherwise he seems to be fighting his body when he runs around.

Dribbling is not a strength.

Rylan is a catch and shoot player. I don't know how this narrative that the 4th best player on Alabama was going to come in and suddenly transform into a star player. His best games for KU have been when catch and shoot has been his first role and he plays off of that.

@approxinfinity said in KState game thread:

@Jhawk69 i dont think we can have an elite defense with KJ and Hunt on the floor together. Not against good teams. So, in my mind, the only way to accomplish an elite defense against those teams with KJ on the floor is with Bidunga at the 5 for rebounding and rim protection.

I dont think of KJ as an elite defender because of deficiencies in those areas, unless paired with someone who is a plus in those areas.

We can have a good defense with KJ and Hunter together because we've seen it before KJ's injury. Shak Moore is why the KJ/Hunter paring can be good on defense. It allows Hunter to be able to play drop coverage and be a rim protector.

@tundrahok i dont think that rebounding rate is sustainable because he still isnt boxing out and collecting defensive rebounds.

@approxinfinity said in KState game thread:

@tundrahok i dont think that rebounding rate is sustainable because he still isnt boxing out and collecting defensive rebounds. Ulti

Part of it was definitely increased effort after the WVU game but another part of it was match-up based. Especially the UCF game. He likely would have be 3-ish rebounds if he played against KSU imo.

I think he was on the upside, pt of emphasis

To me this is evidence that Flory needs to be on the floor until he fouls out. Certainly more time to see if the observed stats hold more water than the predictive stats are accounting for: 🐦 View Tweet/photo/1

@approxinfinity I don't see sat's starting lineup

@Crimsonorblue22 yeah this graphic looks to be a week stale. Not sure if there is a current one.

Interesting stat I found mentioned by Derek Johnson on his Twitter is that without KJ, this was the best offensive game this season by points per possession, but also our worst defensive game by points per possession. I have not been able to track down the numbers myself. The best I can find is EvanMiya.com offensive and defensive efficiency.

@tundrahok said in KState game thread:

@Jhawk69 Historically, KJ has not been a good rebounder. But he's been trending up over the season, rather significantly.

In the 3 games before he got hurt, KJ averaged 7.7 rebounds. It's disappointing it's taken this long (4th year), but if he can keep up this pace, and average 7-8 boards per game here on, I think that would reduce a lot of the criticism he's been receiving.

I'm not smart enough to figure out how to upload an image here:

But the increase in his rebounding rate looks nice.

I bet KJ has been reading KUbuckets and realized a hole in his game! Lol

@SlimShaddy54

Our running days were with Roy! Had he decided to recruit from the entire country he might have left a bigger legacy in Lawrence!

@Texas-Hawk-10

Yeah… hard to imagine having the Zuby/Udeh tandem in the paint now! Maybe Self could have run his original hi/lo with those two!

I’ll say it again… KJ is the guy who holds the keys to this team! If he can keep trending up to near 10 rpg, defends and helps weak side, then regains confidence in that midrange floater…. He’s an enigma when he’s on his game because he’s so unconventional. But when he’s not on his game he’s a liability and a big ineffective donut hole on this team.

@drgnslayr

Self agreed with you in his presser yesterday, didn't use those words you used but mentioned how much they missed him defensively, his energy and leadership Saturday.

So, an important thing to watch Wednesday is who brings the energy for this team on the road. Storr and Griffen haven't been assertive there. Flory has flair and brings it. Juan/Hunt/Mayo need to be the catalyst there.

@drgnslayr said in KState game thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10

Yeah… hard to imagine having the Zuby/Udeh tandem in the paint now! Maybe Self could have run his original hi/lo with those two!

The one time I chatted with those two I tried to get them to imagine being the next great Kansas bigs. Twin towers in the paint as upper class men.

They obviously needed seasoning, but crap Zuby was starting it’s not like he didn’t get run. But run they did.

@drgnslayr said in KState game thread:

@Texas-Hawk-10

Yeah… hard to imagine having the Zuby/Udeh tandem in the paint now! Maybe Self could have run his original hi/lo with those two!

I honestly wasn't that bummed about losing Udeh. I think Hunter a better overall player than Udeh. Zuby was always the player I liked more because he was a better overall athlete that Udeh and could eventually play the 4 for Self.

@Texas-Hawk-10

I like Hunter's skill set better than Udeh but feel like Udeh is more enthusiastic and enthusiasm is sometimes a problem with this team.

Yeah Hunter is one of the most boring players to watch in basketball for me. Great at what he does and I'm not complaining about the production, but Udeh is definitely a more exciting player.

Hunt isn't as aggressive as he should be getting his shots at the rim. The 3 ball, midrange and short floaters are a big part of his offense. I'll have to see if there's numbers of that to back it up.

Edit, found the stats.

Hunter only gets 37% of his shots at the rim and shoots 67% at the rim for a 7'2 guy. 50% of his shots are 2 pt jumpers, the other 12% are 3's. His shot distribution is out of whack for a guy his size. Self should be correcting this with his scheme that's built around Hunter.

Question to everyone: when you have stoic players, like Hunter, who don’t know how to express enthusiasm, does that make our entire team more stiff and less confident on their shots?

I believe the answer is yes.

I don’t know what is in Hunter’s heart. I suspect he feels enthusiasm but has a hard time expressing it. Maybe some of his teammates can help him with that. Could be a very fun thing to practice and I feel sure would help lift the team and promote confidence!

@drgnslayr said in KState game thread:

Question to everyone: when you have stoic players, like Hunter, who don’t know how to express enthusiasm, does that make our entire team more stiff and less confident on their shots?

I believe the answer is yes.

I don’t know what is in Hunter’s heart. I suspect he feels enthusiasm but has a hard time expressing it. Maybe some of his teammates can help him with that. Could be a very fun thing to practice and I feel sure would help lift the team and promote confidence!

Hunter? Stoic? Not sure you're looking at the same Hunter as the rest of the world.

Hunter is well known for trying to get under the skin of his opponents, being very vocal and opinionated, and for his cheap shots.

Not sure stoic is the word here.

@BeddieKU23 said in KState game thread:

Hunt isn't as aggressive as he should be getting his shots at the rim. The 3 ball, midrange and short floaters are a big part of his offense. I'll have to see if there's numbers of that to back it up.

Edit, found the stats.

Hunter only gets 37% of his shots at the rim and shoots 67% at the rim for a 7'2 guy. 50% of his shots are 2 pt jumpers, the other 12% are 3's. His shot distribution is out of whack for a guy his size. Self should be correcting this with his scheme that's built around Hunter.

Seems pretty simple to me! Build a scheme around Hunter. 100% agree. Dude can score with ease when he has some space.

@rockchalkjayhawk

Let me reword that... He lacks animation.

He moves like a 40-year-old dude at the Y who's had a hip replacement

@rockchalkjayhawk

We have the scheme built around him and for post players. He's getting 60% of his shots outside the area that should be the emphasis for him. I don't understand any part of that at all. He's not getting to the free throw line often either which is another sign of non aggressive play. We have a team full of it so it can be spread equally. I'm just shocked this hasn't been a major point of emphasis in film and then practice for the team.

@KirkIsMyHinrich said in KState game thread:

He moves like a 40-year-old dude at the Y who's had a hip replacement

oh , you must be talking about the Great White Sloth- --HUNTERRRRRRRR

Frank Mason was pretty stoic. Didn't express a lot of enthusiasm, but players still rallied around him. Especially as his awesomeness increased. BIFM!

Remember the pic of him and the dude from Michigan State staring each other down? Epic. Mason wouldn't back down! 💪🏾

:)

@Crimsonorblue22 said in KState game thread:

Remember the pic of him and the dude from Michigan State staring each other down? Epic. Mason wouldn't back down! 💪🏾

When we had dogs like Mario, Frank, Sherron, Tyshawn and Devonte I didn’t worry a lot in close games. You knew they were gong to make a play or set up someone for a play. With one of those guys on the floor we beat WV a few weeks ago in Allen. I’ve said we have been missing a set down and shut up player since Remy and Ochai left. That type of is who refuse to go quietly and makes a big play on the road. Hence making the home crowd “sit down and shut up”. Shak and Storr were those guys tonight.