🏀 KuBuckets Archive

This unusual KU team continues to set unexpected precedents.

~The sixteen point W over Kent State was the first ugly blowout ever recorded since the athletic supporter was invented.

~Reputed OAD Kelly Oubre finally got the first of the usual two allotted OAD show-case games against lesser opponents in meaningless games for brand-building and accomplished something no other OAD has ever done. While playing with exemplary efficiency, something OADs often do not accomplish in these rim-gimme games, Kelly actually held himself to 20 points! The previous reputed low score in a brand-builder was 25, though the Petroleum OAD Basketball Institute's web site, which tracks this stat was down and this fact could not be confirmed.

~Former OAD and former TAD Wayne Selden took his play against poor teams to a new low, by shooting 1-7, while trey shooting his way further into the mother-of-all three-point slumps. Wayne's trey slump now extends from the start of his freshman season to the mid point of his sophomore season. He also showed that 50% FT shooting was within his grasp as well.

~Reputed OAD Cliff Alexander showed that he could not foul, but could score efficiently and play only 13 minutes against a mid major. We can only hope Self was resting him, unlike Frank Mason for the grind of the season.

~Reputed 4AD Landen Lucas showed he could board productively, shoot poorly and collect 3 fouls all in only 15 minutes against a mid major.

~Brannen Greene showed that he could do nothing constructive but make 2 FTs in 7 minutes, at a time when KU is arguably so short handed in the back court as to be called handless.

~Reputed 17-year old Ukrainan phenom and reputed certain future NBA draft choice Sviatslov Mykhailuk, whom many, including yours truly, thought had the right stuff early on, shot his way further into the Marianas Trench of all three point shooting slumps and completely squandered 13 minutes of D1 college basketball proving that either Mike Fratello and Bob Hill don't know their asses from bupkas, or Bill Self has found a top secret new way to foul up a promising young player. or Vladimir Putin is using a Tesla Tower somewhere in Siberia to fornicate with the mind of our favorite Ukrainian.

~Bill Self completely left the planet and played Frank Mason 3.0, the only credible, physically fit, starting point guard within a 50-mile radius of Allen Field House, 35 minutes in a meaningless game against a mid major with a 15-20 point lead during "the time of getting better." In doing this, Self both exposed Mason 3.0 to unnecessary wear and tear and injury immediately before the start of the conference grind, but he also missed an opportunity to give Evan Manning more than 2 flipping minutes of preparation PT for the near certainty that Mason 3.0 will get injured during a conference round robbin schedule. Rumors are that the inability of KU to play inside-out has led Self into an altered state of consciousness that as yet has no diagnostic reference in psychiatric manuals. One Jungian psychiatrist consulted said that what Self did was a mythical equivalent of Alfred Lord Tennyson having the Light Brigade ride an additional thousand unnecessary miles BEFORE writing:

"Half a league half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred..."

An utterly unprecedented and inexplicable coaching move. Perhaps Self can have Frank play 40mpg in the next game--30 at pg and 10 at low post--to play him into still better shape for the coming grind.

~Hunter Mickelson was given 3 minutes against a team that might have allowed him some chance at building confidence, indicating that Self will now place Mickelson back in the cryogenic suspended animation for the rest of the season, and that Hunter was only thawed to try to motivate Jamari Traylor through his arrest episode.

~Speaking of Traylor, he proved that with 21 minutes of PT against a mid major in his junior season that he can rock for 8 points and 3 rebounds with only 3 TOs and 2 personal fouls. Hunter Mickelson? We don't need no stinking Hunter Mickelson.

~And last but by barely least, Perry Ellis gutted it out inside for 7-14 FGs and 8 reebs without practicing a single step out 3pta of the kind that will be absolutely imperative against 70% of the teams KU plays in conference and 100% of the teams KU would meet in March, were it to get an invite.

In the end, this Kent State game may have been played for no one but Bill Self. This was a nostalgia game for Self . He seemed kind of sentimental about it. He played this game as if it were an old pre-OAD season with good big men and actual draft choices ready to play. As if he had all the pieces of a team. As if the players were experienced and could actually run the stuff. They ran all the old nostalgic high low sets. Guys squirted out for a few transition baskets. There were a few impact plays from created space. They passed the ball around to make space. They played inside out like the old days. The team got 9 steals, 8 blocks, and forced 12 TOs. It was like the old days of winning the disruption stat I invented once upon a time that I have quit keeping at all. It was classic Eddie Ball, classic old 70 point take what they give us--a 16 point win with +13 on the glass.

But it was fool's gold.

It was against a second rate team--a team that in the old days 11 guys would have been in double digit minutes of PT against.

And the FG% was 49.5%, not 59%.

And the trey shooting was 35.7%, not 39%.

And the turnovers were 15, not 8.

Next game its back to reality.

Next game its back to Perry having to take treys.

Next game its back to Cliff having to play 25-30 even though he is not ready.

Next game its back to outside in.

Next game its try to win ugly by 4, not win ugly by 16.

Next game its hope and prey Frank holds together till Devonte with his boot off can at least limp around for 5 minutes.

Next game it is back to Oubre tallying 12 if he's lucky.

@jaybate-1.0 Thanks for the entertaining approach to post game discussion. It put me in a little better mood. But I'm struggling after this game. It's really worse to me than the Temple game.

I have some questions for the world:

-Could it be that Jamari Traylor has a force field-like bubble around him when a rebound comes off the rim?

-How does Kansas have Traylor and Lucas playing together ... ever?

-Can we assume that Hunter Mickelson had a bad week of practice?

-Is there any more puzzling player than Wayne Selden?

-Does Brannen Greene live in the Towers, or in a doghouse behind Allen Fieldhouse?

-How does Ellis get 5 of his shots blocked in the first 12 minutes of the game, against Kent St. (one was a foul, but I'm counting it)?

-What is a better risk, Svi/Greene/Oubre/Mason/Selden shooting a three, or post players that (a) get their shot blocked all the time, (b) are low skill level, or (c) are only good enough to play 13 minutes against Kent St., shooting within 5 feet of the rim?

We are 10-2. We'll win Sunday and be 11-2. That's all that counts I guess. But we just seem very far away from being a team that can win a national championship right now. I'm usually confident in our chances. I just need to sleep on it.

@HEM, Kentucky is winning the national title this year. I know that we're supposed to expect National titles every year, but not this year. Everyone is playing for 2nd. And that is ok.

This year we should expect, and hope for, progress. If they win the BIG 12, I'll be estatic. And when our Defensive intensity is up, we'll be a hard out come March. Which would be a significant stepping stone for next season. With the depth of this year's draft, KUs team could be the same next year. As long as this team figures out what Bill is preaching, and they continue to make progress (there's that word again), we should be happy Jayhawk fans this year. Because, don't forget, we're all playing for 2nd this year.

@HighEliteMajor

Couldn't agree more with your post. I posted a few days that we wouldn't learn much from them winning, I stand corrected because I learned a lot. Before I go in I do want to say that Kansas fans have been absolutely spoiled with how good our teams have been in the past. We expect greatness, and that is rightfully so for a program that is top 3 in the game.
Having said that 10-2 with the schedule we have played looks pretty good on paper.

But whatever happened between the Lafeyette game has an awful feeling in my mouth.

Selden had one of the worst games I've seen him have. I've been super critical of him because I expect so much more from him. Maybe its time to forget what I expect from him. He was horrid, if he has those games on the road it will be contagious, we will lose games because of him. I guess his high school mixtapes really were like a great car salesman advertisement. How many frickin dunks are you going to miss. Shooting slump, understatement.

Ellis was so bad in the first half I said to myself, don't let him play another minute tonight. Our bigs don't sell going up for shots, with no length and no intent on dunking defenses are feasting on knowing we are going up with it. Our posts are not skilled in passing, their idea is to kick it back out if they do. If Ellis doesn't learn a pump fake he's going to have the record for blocked shots by a post player.

One great positive, Oubre is becoming a hell of a player. He shoots like that going forward, Lotto is calling. He's got a knack for getting his hands on the ball and his rebounding is very solid. It's finally all coming together for him and I couldn't be happier. Someone blow up Goodman's Twitter and Tell him Kelly says HELLO.

Cliff looked good when the game was out of reach. Where was this in the first half when he was pretty much silent. A couple travels negated a few highlight plays he could have had like that dunk. We need more consistency from him and last night wasn't the fast track to that.

What has me worried the most are the pukey grey unis that Adidas is making us wear. We must get that uniform color right, or we're going to continue to look ugly.

Well, I was looking forward to watching the game. Living in Dish country, and having not changed over to Cox yet I am relegated to watching the re-run on espn3.com. I listened to the game on 610, albeit, while horsing around with my little guys, and it didn't sound like the game was played that poorly. Maybe I will not watch it after all.

HEM, I love that you have not given up on their chances, but I cannot say the same for my expectations. I will be surprised if this teams wins any more than than a tie for the Big12 Championship and two games in the tournament

If Bill's coaching was as bad as JB alludes to, my deepest concerns lie with him as a coach, and not with this year's team winning a national championship. I think Bill is losing his coaching edge and has been the last two years. Blasphemy, right? I'm not calling for his head, I'm just recognizing he just might be on the back nine of his career. Now maybe we see more 24-8 teams and less 31-2 type seasons.

.

@Blown

The Round Robin schedule is going to effectively cause any team to lose more. The Big 12 returned a lot of talent from last year and that has kept the league good. Something like 20 of the top 40 scorer's in the league returned. ISU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Baylor have all built consistent programs now instead of the lean years they were having when it was 12 man league. KU will have to be a truly dominate team to have those 31-2 years again, this year is not one of them.

A Win is a win but since the beginning of this year we've talked about how this team could get better over the Christmas break. They didn't get better from last week as a team. I doubt they get any better before Sunday either. Defense was no good in the first half, Kelly Oubre bailed out this team by himself. He's really come on strong avg 13.6 pts 52% from 3 6.4 rbs in his last 5 games since he's gotten playing time.Kent State missed a ton of early 2nd half shots, got behind and got demoralized.

It's critical Devonte comes back and is able to contribute in ways he was starting to before the injury. He's a better shooter than Selden in every phase, we could play 2 attacking guards instead of grinding on Mason for everything.

Random, meandering Jethro thoughts:

We looked like a different team the second he took out Jamari, and put some size on the court. If we run out Jamari and Perry as the starters, we will get dominated inside by everybody we play, unless we happen to schedule a middle school JV team.

Our team is suffering with very poor passing and ball handling skills - 15 turnovers, with Wayne doing a nice "bad Frank Mason" impression with drives to nowhere. Still, Jamari managed to lead us again in turnovers, so at least he remains consistent. This team needs Devonte Graham. Our offense and defense needs Devonte Graham. We aren't the same team without him. With Frank, Oubre, and Devonte, we have a very good chance of getting multiple run outs every game.

It's time to start Cliff. Quit beating around the bush- let this kid find his way.

Oubre was fantastic. He was everything Perry wasn't in the first half. I swear I thought it was Brandon Rush on one of those steals.

Kudos to Perry for not giving up, and fighting through a lousy start to make some really nice plays. I think he grew some hair on his chest from last night.

Frank looked great, played within himself, and hit several clutch shots at the right time, He is going to get better and better, imo. Sorry I sold him so short pre-season.

I don't see Greene with us next year. Wow, so much promise there.

I remain cautiously optimistic about our team, but we sure need Devonte back, and Cliff to start.

I share a lot of the same concerns, but I am a little more optimistic than the general tone of the posts.
I thought, even though he got some shots blocked, Ellis played a good game.
No surprise that Traylor started given Self's comments about him being the only one that brings energy. But I agree with HEM's statements in the past that he should be an energy guy off the bench. 15-20 mins spelling Ellis and Traylor.
I wish he had given Cliff more time in the first half. He made mistakes, but so did Oubre in the first few minutes. Agreed he should just start Cliff. The juggling of the big guys has me confused. Why Lucas so early instead of Mickelson? Could be practice performance. We'll never know. Lucas did seem to do some fundamental things right Our defensive intensity in the 2nd half was more what we should show the whole game. Once again, a tale of two halves.
No way are they where we would like them to be at this point in the season. I believe we will continue to evolve over the Big 12 season and get better.....hopefully more so than the other conference teams.

I would not get suckered into any reckless wagers, but if this squad wins more than one of the four games vs. Texas and Iowa State I will be simply amazed. It is absolutely crucial that Frank stays healthy if we have any hopes of sharing the league title.

@KUSTEVE said:

What has me worried the most are the pukey grey unis that Adidas is making us wear. We must get that uniform color right, or we're going to continue to look ugly.

I can't figure the greys out. We look great in Red, White, or Blue. Why do we wear these stinking grey unis?

Here we are at Kansas bitching about a bad win, but what would your life be like if your were the Gator who did this last night. Can he walk on campus today? Did he cry in the locker room? Did his girlfriend break up with him? Watch the video as he hides his head afterwards.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587882 ↗ ↗

@JayhawkRock78 I think they used the color scheme based on volcanic dust. I have dubbed those unis "the Mt. St Helens volcanic ash uniforms".

@wrwlumpy We are spoiled rotten. We are ingrates to the highest degree ( myself included ). I take the criticism as loving parents who complain about their kids. They still love them, even though they want to strangle them at times.

Spot on, as always, Jaybate. I was literally screaming at the television for Self to get Mason out of there and put Manning (or anyone) in. My heart was in my throat when Mason pulled up lame at one point.

Having declared that Mason was the team's most valuable player, Self uses him like some kind of draft horse. Having also said that Manning should get more playing time, Self forgets about him until there are 2-3 possessions to go in the game.

I propose that one of the assistant coaches be given the sole task during the game, of reminding Coach Self of who is available on the bench, and why they should come in. If Self puts said player in, he can be given a treat. Designated Coach should also have a little clicker or whistle available as an event marker. Enough clicks and treats and Self should get the idea. It works for animal training.

This team is making me crazy!!

Is there any other group of fans in the country (besides Kentucky) that would cry about having the #2 RPI, having a W/L record of 10-2 and being ranked #12 or 13 in the top 25?

Having said that, I spent the entire first half of last night's game thinking I hadn't seen more "starts with P and rhymes with wussy" since back in the late 70's when I used to frequent a very fine gentleman's club in Austin, which I believe was called "The Doll House".

@KUSTEVE I like the gray uni's.

@nuleafjhawk if you are referring to Perry, I get it. But, Perry hung in there and adjusted, put back some misses too. He didn't disappear like the last 2 games.

So many good comments here that echo my own feelings, just felt the need to say so in one last 2014 post...

wrw - thanks for the gator link, thankfully we did not have a play like that one!

rehawk - I think your wager is fairly sound about the 1-4 wins against Tejas and IS, although we do have the power of the Phog for maybe 2-4

kusteve - Spot on with nearly all comments. Not sure I saw much chest hair on Ellis, and interesting take on Greene not being around next year...a couple more no-show games and I think you're right. And while we soooo need Graham back, I have a funny feeling that even when we do, he'll be too rusty and still hurting to be that effective.

beddie - two great posts, sad observations but true I think. I thought they'd get better over the xmess break too, but totally agree, since Lafayette I've had that same awful feeling. And Seldon's shooting "slump" is more than that.

zig - yep, I'd say UK is a lock this year, maybe even go undefeated. Sure hope I'm wrong on those though

hem - first have to say thanks for all the great posts this year, you're one of the main reasons I keep coming back for more here. And I'm struggling too and, unbelievably after a win, while I would not have had the cajones to say it, it might have been worse than the Temple game, as Temple is a serious team with those two new additions and Kent State is, well Kent State.

blown - I really really really hope you are wrong about Bill being on the back nine and us becoming more of a 24-8 team... but I have this little nagging voice that says you're not.

nuleaf - Yes, team makes me crazy! Yes, we are spoiled rotten cry babies! And yes the Doll House in the late 80's in Austin was a spectacular display of P, even eclipsing last night!

and last but not least, the prolific preacher of the jayhawk gospel himself, jb - it was the best of posts, it was the worst of posts. The best in that, as you usually are, you were humorous and insightful and fun to read. It was also the worst of posts for me, in that you intelligently and glibly popped so many of my hopeful bubbles about our team this year that I kept getting sadder with each one. The bullets to my two favorites - Oubre (getting his first OAD highlight reel game against lesser opponents) and Self (over playing Mason and being a nostalgia game) were especially deadly.

I can't remember ever feeling this way after a WIN. I feel silly about it, but it's still the way I feel..

But, being an eternal optimist, I'll look for something bright to end the year with... things can change quickly in sports and people can surprise us, catch on fire (who would have guessed Embiid's trajectory?) A couple of toughly fought, tooth and nail wins, a couple of boys growing into men and leading this team - and maybe a few antacids - will get rid of this feeling in my stomach.

Happy Gnu Year to all the board rats. Here's hoping we look back in April and all go "Man, who would have thought back in late December that this team would go so far in the big dance?"

@jaybate-1.0 Thanks for creating an entertaining spin on the obviously pitiful & p%#s poor prime time performance of our superstar studded rendition of Hogan's Heroes, Home for the Holidays. Hopefully it's not Hogans Goat next time out. UNLV is no pushover. Check Arizona.

And thanks to all the @nuleafs, Jethro's, &@wrlumpy's who contributed some witty humor for a guy to read while head scratching & repeating over & over-what in the H, what in the H, What in the H has Zenger done to my Samsung? Will somebody please tell that clown that we can't see squat on the radio ?? No more than I've got to see of these guys this year all I can contribute is a woeful damned if I know. But I do know it's Dec 31st
& I just might like to enjoy an adult beverage a little later to wash down whatever it is that Zenger made me swallow. Anything past about 10:00 am would seem to be an acceptable time to tee it up. At least I hope with some smoke & mirrors we can all enjoy Happy & Prosperous New Year !!
I'll take 2 losses with a little Cognac going forward. Y'all enjoy!

@lincase

HOWLING!

Last night's win troubles me more than any win should. A win should reveal strengths, not confirm flaws.

Last night's win did both.

Oubre has made it clear that he is the best player on this team, period. No one else did squat for the first six or seven minutes of the game and Oubre basically kept us in it by himself. He should have gone for 30 or 35 last night. He was playing hard on both ends, rebounding and was probably our best perimeter defender for most of the night.

Selden has not been aggressive enough looking for his offense, and that continued last night. Selden is not a shooter. He is a slasher. He needs to drive to open up his long range game, but he is not driving to score. He is driving to pass, which is screwing up his whole offensive game. Just a mess right now, in every appreciable way.

The first 15 minutes of the game was a microcosm of the weaknesses in Perry's game. Because he's not an explosive athlete, Perry has to use pristine footwork to create space because he doesn't just explode up and dunk on people. But matched up with a long armed athlete like Jimmy Hall, he struggled to find those spaces. There is no way Perry should be getting outplayed for that long of a period by a good but not great mid major player if he is truly going to be the "go-to" guy on a national title contender. Last night confirmed for me that Perry needs to be the second or third option on this team if we are going to have a chance to compete for a title. Perry was much better as the game wore on, but as @BeddieKU23 said, he could have been yanked early in the first half and it would have been entirely justified.

Alexander must be more banged up than we know because last night was the kind of game he should have gotten more minutes in, and he barely played. This is something to watch.

Svi and Brannen are lost at sea for no apparent reason. Neither played that well last night. I figured one of the two would find a way to contribute on a regular basis, but that is turning out to not be the case. This is probably the second biggest concern I have going forward.

Self is running a real risk of grinding Mason into the ground. Devonte needs to get healthy fast because Mason played 35 minutes last night and he got banged up a couple different times. If Self is going to ride him that much in games, I hope he is giving him reps off in practice to recover. This is something that merits monitoring as well.

My greatest concern going forward is that Kelly Oubre was having a night last night and Self didn't let him just go off. Oubre was lining things up for a 30-35 point explosion. He was red hot in the first half. I bet he could have gone for 25 the way he was shooting in the first half if we had just kept feeding him. Instead, we force fed the post even though Perry was struggling. With about 9 minutes left in the first half Kelly was 5-5 with four made threes and 14 points overall. Perry was 2-6.

On each of the next two possessions, KU got Kelly Oubre looks at jumpers, which he nailed because he was red hot.

Wait, that's not what happened.

On each of the next two possessions, KU got jumpers for Perry Ellis, who was struggling. He missed both. The second miss did result in Perry eventually scoring after Landen grabbed an offensive rebound.

Kelly didn't get another shot until around the five minute mark. Nailed it. 6-6, 16 points. Flames are engulfing his left hand and smoke is rising from the tips of his hair. Surely KU will ride Oubre through the rest of the half.

It should bother you that Kelly did not take another shot the rest of the half. I will grant that KU did get Perry going at the end of the half, as he scored six points in the final five minutes of the half, but look at what I just wrote above. I'll write it again down here.

With about 9 minutes left in the first half Kelly was 5-5 with four made threes and 14 points overall. Kelly didn't get another shot until around the five minute mark. Nailed it. 6-6, 16 points.

That paragraph summarizes my frustration. Kelly Oubre was ready to go crazy last night, but the constraints of our system wouldn't let him because the system says we have to throw the ball into the post even though the most talented player on the team is red hot and ready to go for 40 if we need him to so we can get this win.

It worked last night because last night we were dealing with Kent State. That won't work against Texas. They're too good. That won't work against Iowa State. That probably won't even work against Oklahoma. It won't work against Kentucky, Louisville or Duke. Probably won't fly against Wisconsin or Villanova. Won't work against Arizona or Virginia. May not work against Gonzaga. Got us into trouble against Utah. We're talking about the difference between possibly getting to the Elite Eight or Final Four and getting knocked out in or before the Sweet Sixteen here.

This is a huge problem and it has not gone away. I am watching this very carefully.

@globaljaybird jan 31, have you started early?? Feel the same way about SZ!

Good comments all on our Jekyll and Hyde performance last night. I couldn't watch it with fully devoted attention, something about being all together as a family for a few days that distracts me, but here goes.

Oubre was looking like a bust to me, but is appearing to be getting it rather quickly. The question is, why is he starting to get it and the veterans appear to be forgetting it?

I hate turnovers and, thankfully we solved that problem in the 2nd half but our TO's kept them in the game. Bo Ryan sits guys after making a TO. They may come right back into the game, but is it any wonder they lead the nation every year in ball security? Maybe every team does the same, but he has his boys practice simple passes nearly every day. I've seen video of the drills, they're so easy 5th graders could do them. We limit the TO's we're going to not look like we did last night.

Tonights riddle wrapped up in a puzzle award goes to Wayne Selden. The good news with him is maybe he's our next Tyshawn Taylor and by his senior year gets it and leads us to the NC game. That's my only hope for the guy right now.

Brannen Greene for the don't get too excited about one or two good games because I'm going back to my irrelevant status award. I really thought the young man had figured it out a few games back. Now I fear we will never see him contribute to this team. I fear that because he just seems to ooze potential to me.

As others have pointed out I don't think we'll need to worry about Frank Mason much anymore. He's become a steady go to guy for us.

UNLV Sunday will provide a test/tuneup for the league games. Last year we failed that test with SDState. We don't lose many games at AFH so that certainly sticks out in my memory. UNLV just beat Arizona, no easy task.

Happy RCJWKNuyear

Lots of accurate observations -I really can't add anything except my confidence in this years chances for another Big 12 title or deep run in March is not as high this year.

It was nice to see Oubre shine.

@REHawk I understand your concern....Texas and ISU are playing better than we are. But, we should get better and I like our chances against just about anyone at home. "Amazed" if we win more than 1 of the 4 seems a bit extreme to me as I would never be amazed if we beat anyone at AFH (well, maybe this year's UK team)

@Crimsonorblue22 Is a frog waterproof?

Think I'm kind of like everyone else in here... seeing bright spots and areas of darkness.

What stuck out at me the most in this game wasn't Kelly's high-octane performance (it stuck out second).

What stuck out most was Perry and how the team sinks or swims by Perry's performance.

We were down by 6 in the first half, and Self totally got on Perry and he came out of a time-out and played with some energy. He didn't do everything perfect after that, but he was able to get some hard-earned buckets, and that is when we made our move and never looked back.

What that told me is this team is following Perry. Even though Kelly was nailing every shot and stealing balls to boot, it couldn't keep us up with the golden flash until Perry decided he was ready to play.

This is monumental, and I'm not sure it is a good thing. It's good if Perry comes ready to play every night. But we all know he doesn't have that reputation.

After one more game, we go into league play, and we need to win those first 3 games. These are games we should win (and must win) if we expect a shot at #11.

There is still a lot of slack in our play. We still don't have an identity. Who are we? Who do we count on? What is our "bread and butter?"

On the positive, these games that pop up during our Christmas practice period often produce strange results. Self is in the midst of trying different things, pushing guys' buttons, and teaching these kids more plays and strategy. In the midst of that, the results of a game can be unpredictable. We better just feel good that we won that one. For the millionth time now... we need to remember how young this team is.

I thought this was going to be Wayne's team. So far, it is Perry's team. I thought Wayne would be our "knight in consistent armor" this year. That hasn't proven to be. I was hoping for him to lead with consistency, to help the young lads out.

As anticipated, Kelly is coming on. He's a huge bright light on a team full of shadows. We still haven't experienced what he is capable of. He just gave us a taste.

Perhaps Kelly is up to leading this team. Give him some time and let him continue to build his confidence.... who knows.... maybe by March?

@globaljaybird !image.jpg ↗

A little bit of "take it for what you think it's worth" info, but according to a guy I know who talks to Perry's high school coach (Joe Auer), apparently whenever Perry returns home to Wichita they touch base and Auer will make the high school gym available to Perry. Within the last week they got together and Auer told Perry he looked flat during one of the games recently (could be either the Lafayette or Temple games, or both) and asked what gives. Perry allegedly told the coach that he had gotten into Self's doghouse and Self made him run the steps (the Withey treatment) and that he simply didn't have any legs for the game.

Again, take it for what it's worth. Hearsay. Rumor. Whatever. It wouldn't surprise me if it was true, or it wouldn't surprise me if the guy was blowing smoke to try and impress me with his "insider knowledge".

@icthawkfan316 hmmm, what do you think?

@Crimsonorblue22 Well, really I can't think of why the guy would lie to try and impress me. I don't have any influence in any arena, nor am I in a position to grant any kind of favors. But ya never know with people; sometimes they just like to feel big so they make up fish stories.

I'm inclined to think it's true. I think if he is in Self's doghouse it would almost certainly be from his on-court effort and performance. I can't see Perry struggling with his classes, getting a DUI (Brady), interferring with a police officer (Jamari), etc. My younger brother lives in Lawrence and never sees him out partying or hears about any extra curricular nonsense.

So following that train of thought - that he is in the doghouse and it's due to effort/execution in games and/or practices - then we can assume he is in Self's "toughening box". Self knows he needs Perry; he doesn't have enough better options to banish him to the end of the bench. So it's different than say...Brannen being in Self's doghouse. Self can make due without Brannen, but we can't have a successful season without Perry. So maybe Self harkened back to how he turned laid-back California Withey into stank-face Withey, and decided it's worth a shot. Idk if it will work, but my guess is he's taking the Christmas break period to try a different approach (pushing different buttons, as @drgnslayr would say).

As a Wichita native and resident, as well as a Heights alum and just general fan of the guy, I'm rooting for Perry to have as much success as possible. But there's no ignoring his struggles or shortcomings. I think not having a legitimate 5 playing alongside him hurts as much as anything. Perry's not a guy who can own the paint. But put him with a Cole Aldrich, Jeff Withey, Joel Embiid and he can be very effective. Put him with Landon Lucas and Jamari Traylor...defenses can focus on him. Game plan for him. And he becomes very mediocre.

@icthawkfan316 I was trying to figure what Perry would look like w/stank face look from Withey! I do remember coach saying he wouldn't change Perry, he is what he is, but thought it was more about leadership qualities. Very interesting. I do think Perry came back strong last pm, after his shaky start.

I felt like Perry had a good game. After reading the posts, I had to go back to the box score to see if I was imaging something.
7-14 for 15 pts. and 8 rebs. OK. His FT's sucked. Isn't that pretty good? Clearly he was better in the 2nd half.....not uncommon for a player to have 1 good half and 1 mediocre half. He got some shots blocked. I have to believe that Self wants to keep going inside to him regardless. Some may get blocked. Have the preseason expectations maybe been set too high?
I know we might expect something a little more against Kent State.
Can't we be successful if Perry has a similar performance in the Big 12 games? Yes.....I know the competition is stiffer than Kent State......but Perry has done it before against Big 12 competition. He can't go 20 and 12 every game.
Am I setting the bar too low?

@HighEliteMajor Temple is a hell of a team right now. They won at UConn about an hour ago. Lots of cuts, bruises, typical for their styles & we know where we fit in that conversation. Had I been able to see Kent State I might be more concerned than after Temple, but they're certainly no cupcake. UConn has a badass rim protector too & still Dunphy got the W. Morgan & Cummings both in double figures & nailing FT's almost as high % as vs Kansas. UNLV brings a really big challenge at a time we are not playing with much consistency beyond Frank Mason & who knows how hard Bill will ride him without a credible backup. Sure as H isn't "all balls & head down Wayne" If we're 11-2 next Sunday I'll be happy as a puppy with 2 peters.. JMO

@Crimsonorblue22 Why don't we just change to purple...or gold and black? Makes as much sense as "sepia volcano dust gray". You have to trust me on this - I am considered a fashion expert at the cement pond :)...

@globaljaybird HA! Your puppy allusion really brightened an otherwise drizzly day. Most of the posts on this thread (including my own) project impending doom. I agree that if we are 11-2 next Sunday eve, things will look cheery as we roar into league play. (I had best stop typing right now before I revert to something pessimistic or caustic.) HAPPY 2015 to ALL! What a dandy Jayhawk Hoops Site!

@KUSTEVE ha ha I bet you are!!

@Jyhwk_InTigrtwn Great post, Same sentiments to you as well!
My big question of the moment is why is Coach Self unable to let go of trying to make this team into the 08 team? Its not gonna happen. We dont have the roster to play inside out every freeking possession. Kelly SHOULD have gotten 42 last night, broke Wigs single game scoring record.

@jaybate-1.0 We do have more than one 40% trey gunner. Our coach just hasnt let them do it with enough frequency.

Final thought, right now I dont see this KU team making it out of the first round.

oh yah, final final thought. UNLV beat Arizona AT their place. They can certainly beat KU on Sunday.

@Lulufulu it seems to me, that coach has given the green light to all wings and Perry to shoot the 3. If we develop our inside game, doesn't that open up the 3?

It was a true joy to find all of you again. After reading the alternative KU posts, someone was kind enough to let us know that there is a great site with great fans. It is a joy to read you guys again.

Bill Self is not on the 'back nine'. Last year at this time, we were all worried about OSU and how well they were playing. KU loses to Villanova, gets destroyed by Florida and loses at home to SDS. KU then goes on a run-and wins on the road key Big 12 games and the title is in site again.

This title will be difficult-most have been. Texas has the perfect team to give us fits. ISU is solid and OU will be tough. One simply has to go back and see how Bill Self has fared against each of those coaches and teams. Hoiberg has the best case against KU. I would take Self vs Barnes any game-anywhere.

I watched KU beat Florida in Vegas with Julian Wright. That was a young team. All came back except Julian and we know the rest of the story. Enjoy this year and hope that we can keep the streak alive. Next year is shaping up to be one of Bill Self's best teams.

@colojhawk

Glad you found us. Welcome. Hope you're right.

@REHawk

Coach, I absolutely hate it when you get pessimistic! :-)

I am not a bonafide professional.

I get to be pessimistic out of ignorance.

You on the other hand have some obligation to hold our hands and say it will be alright!!!!!!!! :-)

Ah, but it IS alright.

We have The Legacy.

We have a great coach.

We have players worth loving and rooting for.

We have great fans.

No one has crashed the stock market yet.

Putin stopped the South Stream gas line under the Black Sea and partnered over land with Turkey and the west.

Women are still beautiful.

The private owners of The Fed are going to keep interest rates down awhile longer.

The world is awash in more oil and gas than it knows what to do with.

Scientists have decided it is okay to eat butter and use aluminum cookware, after all.

Every game from here on out is going to be somewhere we can watch it.

Happy New, Year, Coach, Happy, Happy New Year!!

@Lulufulu

Right you are, so Self will surely unleash them for UNLV.

Fingers crossed. :-)

@icthawkfan316

We can hope. :-)

Dog house sentences are finite.

@jaybate-1.0 you seem, uh, "happy"? Ringing in the new year?

@Crimsonorblue22

No, no booze for me, if that's the question.

Hung up the shaker about 25 years ago.

No addiction problem. Just nudged me closer to high blood sugar than I liked. Best thing I ever did.

But, hell, yes, I love New Years.

Ever since I was 10 and saved an M-80 from July 4th till the New Years and detonated it at 4 below zero in a huge snow drift, I have loved the holiday as much as any.

Happy New Years!

@Crimsonorblue22

How about you, are you already a little tight? :-)

@jaybate-1.0 I don't drink either. I tried! I'd be sick for days. Happy new year to you. I'm watching suns and thunder on fox sports.

@jaybate-1.0 funny, I'd be loose if I was drinking.

Happy New Year to " all y'all".

@JayhawkRock78

BACK AT YOU!

@Crimsonorblue22

Yes, me, too. But I was just using an old slang from the movies of the 1940s-1950s for fun.

@jaybate-1.0 missed those!

@Crimsonorblue22

Tight may even have been from the 1930s. Regardless, I pick out a two decade period and a genre every year, or two, and try to watch movies from that era. I study the evolution of the mythology and camera techniques. Last year I watched westerns from the 1940s to 1950s without John Wayne or James Stewart in them to see what the lesser actors and directors were trying to do. The 1 million channels on cable, plus internet, plus TIVO make this easy and fast to do. This pic is probably from The Thin Man with William Powell and Myrna Loy. Get ta know ya legacies. It is necessary to know your present. :-)

!PowellLoyThinMan.jpg ↗

@jaybate-1.0
Some of the best memories of my youth is watching movies with my father late Saturday nights after mom and my sisters (3 of them) were in bed. Pop had a tough upbringing and did a ton of things to get me prepared along the way. Anyway-I love old movies with the Duke-but my favorite without him is Alan Ladd in "Shane". Is that on your list?

Shane is one of my all time favorites. Alan Ladd and Jack Palance shooting it out. What could be better. The final scene is a real tear jerker. Actually one of the latest Geico ads is a takeoff of it. The one with the "words can hurt" and the guy hits his head on the "The End".

Maybe KU could do something like what was done with Alan Ladd. He was a real heart throb but only about 5'4" or so. They would dig ditches so that the ladies could stand in them and be shorter. If we could only do something similar with Cliff and make him appear to be a footer.

GREAT THREAD!!! Just got home after 11.5 hr drive from the Holy Land (Kansas btw)

Here's a shot of Vail from I-70 tonite!

!image.jpg ↗

Sorry to veer off topic on last post!

I'm in agreement w much of above. I know hcbs knows what he's doing but he seems REALLY set in his ways. Before Kent State we had a great thread about how Alexander needed to play a minimum of 30 min. It made/makes complete sense to me. However, JamTray starts and gets a ton of unjustified minutes.

I'd start Cliff and Perry and sub Mickelson, Lukas and JamTray in that order.

I'd also start Svi over Selden.

Don't know what to do w Greene.

We need to play outside in.

Shoot at LEAST 20 threes/game.

Blah blah blah...

RCJHGKU!!!

I'm done posting till next year

Shane is an awesome movie. I enjoy watching all of the scenes that the background changes. The Tetons are covered with clouds, then someone else is shown and they go back and now the Tetons are cloud free. It happens all through the movie!

@colojhawk Welcome to our little KU cult. When you get a KU shaved into your forehead, or if you have no hair there, a tattoo at the same spot, give us a pic and you'll be officially in.

@VailHawk I predict that Cliff will soon earn a bundle of minutes. Indications are that he is struggling with shin discomfort, and has not fully recovered from the ankle sprain. Then, first minute off the bench he did not run the floor and execute with energy, so got the quick hook. His TIME is coming...and soon. Gotta hope that Bill does not read your Svi over Selden suggestion. The Guy might drop into coronary mayhem! I think most of us are right there with you on the BG issue. What the hell to do with him? I suppose he will squeeze out fifteen minutes of fame now and then...interspersed with five minute stretches of YIKES! Anyway, there are so many bright possibilities lurking within this squad that we are in for lotsa sunny mornings after. HAPPY NEW YEAR to you and all faithful Jayhawk buckets posters. ROCK CHALK!

@jaybate-1.0 First color flick I ever watched was "Gunfight at the OK Corral" at the Uptown back in the 50's. We rode the passenger train from the boondocks to Union Station & took the bus to my 75 yr old Aunt's house at 31st & Forest. Another classic from that time frame was "Last Train From Gun Hill" w/ Kirk Douglas & Anthony Quinn Those were the days...seems to me we may have even paid the fare with plastic mill tokens.

@jaybate-1.0 said:

But I was just using an old slang from the movies of the 1940s-1950s for fun

Wanted to profess vocabulary ignorance in a post I made above where I referenced you - I was looking for a fun word to go with prolific and went with "pontificate" thinking that it just meant something along the lines of preaching the gospel. I didn't realize it also negative connotations, surely not meant that way, I enjoy your posts!

@Crimsonorblue22 Yah, normally it does. Mason drives and kicks it out to the open wing for the trey. But, they arent doing that enough. At least that seems to be the general consensus on here. One I agree with.

@VailHawk
Thanks for sharing that Vail. I've never seen fireworks over a Mountain before.

Greene. I read a number of posts about him above. Most of which refer to him leaving after this year. I doubt this. I think he is still a sophomore and will be a huge part of our team his junior and senior years. The guy is a 6'8 pure scorer. Just needs to figure out how to play defense and stay out of Self's doghouse. I think us KU fans are a bit too quick to say "this guy is gone next year" as it has happened a couple of times recently with AW3 and CF. Both of those guys had similar strengths to Greene in that they are 3 point shooters. I feel there is more the Greene than just 3's though. He can score in other ways and is obviously money from the FT line. His family has Kansas ties (not that this stopped CF) and I just feel he is still a year away from making it all come together. Remember when juniors and seniors were the guys getting time while freshman and sophomores had to sit and watch and learn? It was not that long ago. Releford, T Rob, Darnell Jackson, etc, etc, etc. Some guys just need a bit of time to figure it all out. Obviously I am in the minority but I still see Greene being a KU Jayhawk for 2 more years.

@joeloveshawks

The issue with Green is that he is one the more one-dimensional player I have seen in a long time. He can hit threes, when he is in the groove and can hit FT all the time; however, his defense and passing, or lack thereof, are a big concern. The question boils down to...does his shooting offsets his liabilities? At this time I would have to say than other than playing as a "designated shooter" on specific situations, his playing time will likely not increase, particularly with Oubre's recent play.

Greene is still his own worst nightmare. He helped us win at georgetown, and has hit numerous shots when needed. Then you have basically every other game and what do you get? His defense is his biggest liability and he's playin 13 minutes a game because of it. Are the concerns valid that he might not be here next year, yes because we've seen recently that KU can't go one year without some crazy off-season attrition. Would it be in his best interest, no he should continue to work hard because his jumper is NBA worthy.

Selden as I've said is seriously in a slump. He's been in it basically his whole time here. His defense can be very good and his understanding of how Self wants things done is basically what keeps him on the court. If graham was available I bet we would see way more Mason and him on the court at the same time. Selden has to hit buckets, I'm tired of saying it but he doesn't deserve 30 minutes a game if he can't start making shots. Svi and Greene dont impact the game consistently enough yet to get minutes over wayne. These are the cards we are dealt. The only hope is that Oubre really takes over a big chunk of the scoring and we can live with the inconsistent offense from Selden. Hoping this slump he's in is going to suddenly go away isn't likely. I'll eat all the crow if it was proven untrue.

@Jyhwk_InTigrtwn

Thx for taking a minute to clarify.

The beauty of this medium is we get to make those clarifications.

I hope that our community over time will become more and comfortable with adding, subtracting, and correcting and apologizing, along with all the good cheering and moral support we lend each other. Extending these sorts of curtesies greatly increase ones joy at participating.

Rock Chalk!

@JayHawkFanToo think we can add practices and wts in there too. We don't know! I think he'll get chances, if he's going all out at practice. I heard he was smart, he sure does some bone-headed things! I swear I could play better D than him! Kinda funny!

@globaljaybird

Oh, yeah, those were very good and the Uptown really was uptown once upon a time.

Back to flicks, its very personal what moves one and resonates with one. Up until the last two years, Randolph Scott was not my cup of tea. But then I found the Budd Boetticher westerns the he directed for Scott that were written by Burt Kennedy and it was like a light went on that I had been missing something very, very, very important in the westerns. I don't know how, or why, it happened. I had looked at Boetticher and Kennedy's work long ago, when I was trying to learn about screen writing, and though I appreciated their craft, their westerns did not thrill me at all.

But then two years ago, they did. AND IN A BIG WAY.

I believe what changed was my getting older and getting a bit disillusioned with the kind of movies made today, where heroes are so compromised. The themes of these westerns relit my love for movies and I watched and studied all six three times each and they have rekindled my love for movies generally.

Decision at Sundown (1957)

The Tall T (1957)

Buchanan Rides Alone (1958)

Ride Lonesome (1959) – also producer

Westbound (1959)

Comanche Station (1960)

I really think these six westerns rank as important contributions to our culture's art of the 20th Century--they do for me.

@Crimsonorblue22

Brannen seems to some extent a casualty of the OAD approach to team building.

Brannen seems likely to be like EJ and Travis. His neural nets are probably a little slow reaching full maturity. This is a crucial dynamic affecting the rate at which all players in this age range arrive as players. No amount of PT, or "development work," can compensate for neural nets not being fully grown in. If the net is not their, no matter how many reps one gets, there is nothing to burn in. Brannen seems to be doing lots of good things. But he also seems to be doing some bone head things. That is an indicator of incompletely developed neural nets.

Under the pre OAD approach, guys like Brannen could sit a couple seasons, sometimes even three with a redshirt, as Travis Releford did, and then we would watch them metamorphose suddenly between their third season and their fourth and fifth seasons. By the fourth season, with the neural nets fully grown in, all the wildness and unpredictability is gone. By the fifth season, they have polished all of the skills that take a year to work on, once you have the neural nets sufficient to burn in with a year of reps. It lead to incredibly competent players that you could count on game after game for a season or two.

But now, especially at the wing position that Brannen plays, Self drags in 1-2 OAD wings each season. And they have to play. And so whether Brannen ever gets a shot or not, will depend entirely on whether Self cannot sign 1-2 OADs each season.

Even if Brannen were to stay for a 4th season, or redshirt, for a fifth season, it would be very easy for Self to bring in an OAD and have to play him, regardless of how polished Brannen eventually became.

OADs HAVE TO PLAY, WHETHER THEY ARE READY OR NOT, OR THE OAD SPIGOT GETS VALVED TO OTHER PROGRAMS THAT WILL PLAY THEM READY OR NOT.

This apparent truth probably underlies why Self no longer throws rouge smoking jackets to guys at high traffic positions, like 2, 3, and 4.

By high traffic, I mean positions where he can realistically expect to drag in 1-2 OADs each season.

Why give a guy a red shirt and develop him, if you are going to have to play OADs ready or not?

As a result of having to play OADs, you really can't afford to carry Red Shirts. You need all of your scholarship players contributing during the steep learning curve of the OADs you have to play. You have to have guys playing the 3 while Oubre is getting ready to, and then you have to sit them the rest of the season, for Oubre to play. You cannot afford guys on red shirt getting better. You need what little experience they have at the beginning of every season and then you have to shaft them with benching, because then you have to play the OAD/TAD.

Tie goes to the OAD.

Self made clear Brannen's next best shot. Its is to come in and push TAD Wayne Selden for minutes. But notice that Self said we've got to get Wayne a little more productive by Svi and Brannen pushing him. Oubre is now our 3, unless he blows it.

Brannen is not competing for a starting 2 role. Brannen is being offered the chance to push Wayne to the point that Wayne plays well enough to keep Brannen off the floor permanently, too.

Brannen appears to be a smart young man. He appears to understand what is being done to him. Conner Frankamp understood the same thing. Conner and his dad just decided that that was not the best thing for Conner's mental health and for his basketball playing future to fulfill that role for Self--to be a "pusher" of OAD/TADs with no chance to ever start consistently. That, I believe, was what Conner meant when he said he loved it at KU, but they just have so many guys here. That was code for Self has committed to basing the program on OADs and if one is not an OAD, then there is no other role on the team, if one is behind an OAD, and Self made clear that Conner was NOT a point guard, but a 2 guard, and so Conner would always have been a "pusher" for some OAD/TAD at the 2.

Brannen is in the position of being a "pusher" now. It is a thankless role for a scholarship player once highly recruited. Self is basically indicating he can be a "pusher" at the 3, or 2, as long as he stays at KU.

Brannen will play some.

But it will tend to be when he can "push" an OAD/TAD.

Frankly, if I had been Brannen's advisor, I would have told him to transfer to WSU along with Conner. At WSU Brannen would get to compete straight up for a real starting position, same as Conner. He might not beat out his competition, but he might.

The fact is at KU, Brannen will never beat out an OAD/TAD for any position ever...even when the neural nets are grown in.

His only chance, Conner's only chance at KU, too in the OAD era, would be for Self to fail to sign an OAD/TAD for him to "push."

The collateral damage, as the Pentagon likes to call it, of the OAD/TAD phenomenon is brutal to other players.

Good as Frank Mason is, if Self brought in an OAD point guard, Frank would have to "push" next season, as surely as Brannen has to "push" this season.

And if Self brought in two OAD point guards next season, Frank Mason, good as he is, would be reduced to "pushing" two.

In either case, it would look like Frank were playing early, but what he would really be doing was buying time for the OADs to be ready.

Sad.

@jaybate-1.0 pardon me, my neural net is still developing!! This year the OAD's have not been starting. BG had a chance, he earned it and then he blew it off. If he was still scoring 17 pts, he'd be playing. Of course he needs to get to weights and play D. I get your point, but the best guy plays. If BG played like he did in his 17 pt game, he might be a TAD?? As far as CF goes, he defense was horrible and he couldn't hit anything til the end. I'm w/Self about defense. Neural net is flaking out!

@jaybate-1.0 In your reply to rehawk about all that is good I'm surprised you failed to mention your new traveling drawers you discovered this year.

And re old movies, my wife would be happy if the only channel we got was Turner Classic Movies. Last year for my birthday she treated me to the Christmas show and dinner at the WWII museum in New Orleans. (If you haven't been you should put it on your bucket list.) But the dining area had posters of many actors and actresses from that era. She knew who all of them were.

And thanks to my new TIVO Roamio it's saving every old western it finds for me to watch. At the rate its going I may never catch up.

@brooksmd if you lived in ks you might have all winter to catch up. Crappy weather coming, good time to stay in and watch movies

@Crimsonorblue22 That's one reason I don't live there anymore. Well that and my wife. lol Trying to get my sisters to move down here.

@Crimsonorblue22

If you are 23, or less, you are not thinking with a fully developed brain. There are gaps that no amount of reps will burn in. A partially developed brain may be able to do some things and not others. It varies person to person in terms of limitations. The implications of this are huge through out society, not just basketball in the OAD era. It will take our culture 50 years to even begin to deal with it meaningfully. Probably some Eurasian country will do so first. But the neuroscience is in on brain development. It is empirically verified. You may be a year ahead, or a year behind, but 23 is it.

Next, there are five classes of players in D1 now:

a.) OAD/TADs;

b.) pushers that will leave;

c.) pushers that will stay;

d.) OAFs; and

f.) walk-ons

Travis Releford was lucky he came before Self's decision to cornerstone on OAD/TADs. It is probable that he would not have ever become more than a pusher. Self would have been through 4-5 OAD/TADs on the wings by his fourth season, when he was finally ready to play. And he would have faced an OAD/TAD his fourth and fifth seasons he would have had to be a pusher for. He would never have gotten the corner stone role his fourth, or fifth seasons to become the player he became under the old system. He would have been too busy pushing, at whatever positions on the perimeter that Self had an OAD that needed pushing.

Self had room for two pushers to committee at PG, because Self has not been able to land any OAD/TAD point guards, and his last pusher cum interim starter, Naadir Tharpe selfie-destructed. Frank and Devonte got those roles, until Self can get into the gravy train on OAD/TADs at point. That meant Conner, whom you are forgetting Self said would be starting some this season and play 20 mpg, apparently as a pusher at the 2, became the designated pusher at 2, and didn't want to be that. It was good for Brannen and Svi that CF left, or they would have only seen duty pushing Oubre at 3. Right now, we would be hearing Self say Conner needed to push Wayne, because Wayne was not quite as productive as he needed to be.

What I am talking about is very unpleasant and yet it appears to be how it is.

Good young players that used to develop into some of our favorite full time Jayhawks have no place in the new system. They would just be pushers, never cornerstone starters.

Yes, there will be exceptions, like Mason right now, when Self has OAD recruiting blackouts at certain positions, as exists at PG this season, but very shortly most of the recruiting blackouts will be a thing of the past.

Self will get KU up to the 5 OAD/TAD standard very soon, or Self will move on for someone who can. Self does not have to swim against the current forever. He has the FU money. He has professional options. If Self and the powers that be in Big Shoes cannot come to a similar meeting of minds that Cal, K, Miller, and Donovan have, i.e., on Self getting his fair share of PetroShoeCo OAD/TAD, I believe that will be the end of Self at KU. That may even be what Big Shoe wants. Same with Rick Pitino, though Rick is probably near enough the end of the line he might ride it out.

We live in the age of the OAD/TAD pusher. And they've got to be able to push from year two on, or they are destined to transfer to places like WSU.

@brooksmd

I'm slipping. Travel drawers still rock. Another thing that rocks is a really cheap Aeron imitation being sold at Costco for a couple hundred bucks. I have tried everything in chairs over the years, from the ridiculously expensive to the cheapies and frankly have never really been happy. I came close for awhile with an old Grahl split back back in the late 1980s but it got too spendy for what it gave to replace it. Aaron's started out too spendy, and they were better in conception than in actual use. But like I say, this cheap from Costco that my wife got me is really good. She bought me a spendie one before XMAS and I sent that one straight back.

One more thing I got this year that I love is a forge de Lagiole folding pocket knife. I have always been a devoted Buck 110 guy (just love the American scale, feel and function and would pay five times what they ask), but I finally decided I wanted a really slim folder for traveling. Benchmade makes great knives I have tried, but these survivalist folding knives with blades so sharp they cut diamonds have never been for me. This Lagiole is sharp and a bit hard to get used to the first few times you use it, because the handle is so thin. And it looks like something you might find on Pierre in a French whore house. But the thing really carries easy and comes out of the pocket smooth, and happily rides in lightweight travel pants without making a bulge in your pants like you're too glad to see someone. Nice knife.

@jaybate-1.0 maybe you should try one that will give you the bulge, like you are happy to see someone!

@Crimsonorblue22

Don't need that.

@jaybate-1.0 where do you put Svi?

@Crimsonorblue22

Self said it: his purpose, along with Brannen, from here on out is to push Selden.

Assuming he can ever establish his trey ball, I would most like to see him at 2.

But since it looks like Selden will be a 3-4AD, I'm not sure what will become of Svi.

A lot depends on why Svi can't defend ball screens.

I am hoping he has been injured.

If he has been healthy, then his future at KU is probably as a pusher.

I cannot believe I am saying that, because I was enormously high on him early.

But I so far have not seen him play as if he were able to do much more than push and OAD.

@jaybate-1.0 another question, still haven't answered my ISU 3 pt shooting one. So if these brains are hit, concussions before 23, do you think they have a better chance to recover?

@Crimsonorblue22

Guess I missed your Q. Come again.

Haven't seen research on early versus late brain injury. But brain injury is the gift that keeps on giving. Get it. You've got it for life.

@jaybate-1.0 it was where you were talking about shooting 71 3's. I asked if you knew how many ISU had shot these last 3 years.

@jaybate-1.0

If this oad takeover is going to happen in full force then self will have to dumb down his system and completely change the complexity of it to make it easier for kids to come in and succeed. Do you think it would have taken Oubre this long to get a starting spot and look like a top 10 pick if he was on kentucky? I don't think it would have, I think he would have been playing better already if it wasn't for the demands that self puts on young players to learn so much in a short period.

Even cliff hasn't exactly gotten comfortable yet and a lot of it has to do with the system self runs. If he wanted 4-5 year players that era has left this program because we have seen countless kids who could have benefited by sticking it out or getting a red shirt year. But that's not how Coach is doing it anymore, he's over recruiting at positions and repeating.

Right now we are recruiting the best that is out there. Ellis is a 4 year player, cliff is really a PF being asked to play the 5. If we get some combo of Bragg, Zimmerman, Diallo, Rabb, maybe Maker why would cliff stay even tho his stock has dropped considerably so far. He's stuck behind a good but not great player who he has considerable advantages over in certain areas but would likely never beat Ellis out. Say 2 elite bigs sign and all of a sudden we have 6-7 bigs on the team and no system to maximize it.

@Crimsonorblue22

Studies are suggesting that early concussions (particularly those before the age of 16) are most dangerous. Some doctors suggest that if a high school student has a concussion, they should sit out an entire year (12 full months, not a season) to recover properly.

There have been some studies, though not large enough to be scientifically verified, suggesting that trauma before the age of 13 can be absolutely devastating, as the brain may be damaged to the point of non-development in certain areas. There is a possibility that early brain trauma may cause permanent, irreversible damage to the brain.

After the age of 18, the dangers begin to lessen because the brain is much more developed and brain mapping demonstrates that certain functions in the brain can or will re-route if damage occurs. With younger brains, the initial routes haven't been fully established, so this re-routing may not be occurring.

As I have stated in other places, I had a concussion when I was in high school (about 2 weeks before my 18th birthday, for what it's worth), so I have spent quite a bit of time researching and following concussion studies and the long term consequences. I got through college and graduate school just fine, so I think I am okay, but I do worry that my own brain has a ticking timebomb buried inside it that may just go off one day. As a result, I spend quite a bit of time doing logic puzzles, crosswords, sudoku and other brain games to see if I can stave off potential problems. I guess you could say I am trying to build some new roads for myself just in case.

@justanotherfan

I totally agree with your post, and am also a victim of early concussions. My first two concussions happened at age 12, my first year of tackle football. In my first concussion I was knocked unconscious.

I suffer extreme cases of memory loss. Things come and go, and I am capable of temporarily misplacing vital memory, like the loss of family members' names. This has been debilitating and frustrating.

I believe sports like football, before kids are mature enough, is just too risky.

Just my humble opinion.

@BeddieKU23

Your take is one of the most insightful yet on the problems of this conversion. It will take a couple more years to work through.

But we board rats need to remember two advantages Self's system still offers, even though Big Shoe seems to drive the OAD bus.

1. Self's sets and actions off them are reportedly closer to what the NBA runs than the dribble drive. And the high-low was created to be learned quickly for the 1964 Olympics. Contrary to popular opinion it scales to simplicity quite easily.

2. The pros like guys that already know how to guard. So KU guys are marketable if they are even bubble talents like Cole Aldrich.

This apparently gets us an Oubre with a Dad who doesn't want his son babied, who is willing to make the choice on more than Big Shoe.

But bottom line Big Shoe appears to
drive the OAD bus, or perhaps some Big Agency -Big Shoe complex that is still under the public discourse radar.

(Note: I believe nothing illegal is going on. I view this rather as some kind of duopoly strategy and tactics playing out.)

And Rick Pitino contracted with adidas has spoken publicly about Recruiting asymmetries related to Big Shoe.

And Knight has reputedly indicated Cal is not doing it the right way.

And Self is the winningest coach the last 5 years and has a ring and short time Sean Miller at UA gets more OADS than Self and Pitino? Hmmmm.

And one poster indicated some of the summer game folks in the state of kansas reputedly don't like Self; that I found intriguing (Note: any better than the summer game guys in the Big Apple reputedly liked Roberts? Hmmmmm.)

Self did not ask for this apparently unlevel playing field. But he did sign with adidas. And so did KU. The moment they did they probably should have expected unforeseen consequences in an apparently conflicted duopoly. KU and Self and UL and Pitino took the money and allied with the duopolist with the smaller market share. Now they are trying to make the best of it.

The unforeseen consequences seem to track into the issues you raise.

OAD/TAD increasingly seems its own market segmentation triggered by an institution. Each market segmentation is driven by its own dynamics and interests and practices cost shifting on lesser market segments.

In some ways this is not fundamentally different than the segmentation between scholarship players and walkon's. But it benefits so few and cost shifts onto so many!!

The situation is, as the saying goes, fluid.

@jaybate-1.0

Self is a great coach, I believe his demands for players to learn both sides of the ball and grasp a team game is becoming a lost art. He just didn't hand Oubre a starting spot like most schools would. Kelly was humbled and now is reaping rewards of Self placing him at a higher standard.

That can be a slippery slope. A lot of headlines were made and a lot of media, high schooler's probably noticed that Kelly wasn't getting the PT early. Some kids could see that negatively. Some could thrive on the idea that a coach is going to push me no matter who I am. You just never know what drive these kids have until you coach them.

When I say the system has to change I mean it has to change from Late Night on. UK gets Drake. Drake is a big deal to kids, you get him at your late night your doing big. What have we done lately? The same ol thing we been doing. Trends change, times change sometimes yearly. Trends of package deals are becoming more and more talked about. Ingram, Bragg, Brown, Zimmerman have all talked about going to the same school. That school could be KU, but what are the chances all 4 think KU has the most market appeal over going to Lexington. Nobody in their right mind could honestly believe that. We are a top 3 school, the elite, the tradition, the winning, the NBA players galore. Recruits know they can get to the league no matter where they go. There on mock drafts before they are 16 in some cases.

I don't think Self should ever change his stance on defense, he's a great defensive coach and the numbers back that up. Consistently good defense will always lead to productive years and we've had that with him.

On Offense I really think he should switch it up. We are still running plays we were running 7-8 years ago. He knew this off-season that this team was going to be his smallest in years but yet the philosophy of banging it inside is still the same. Our PG has improved tremendously, our SG has regressed so far, our leading scorer still has his inconsistencies. We have 3 guys (Oubre, Greene, Svi) who can shoot the heck out of the ball from 3 ball yet only 1 of them see's the floor at a time. I understand its because of the defensive liabilities putting all 3 out their might create but offensively putting Mason, with those 3 and Ellis/Cliff would be really interesting to see. Give everyone the green light and see what happens. The game has to get easier for KU, more and more teams have gone a more open style because the game has changed. 3 points is more than 2, more shooters creates more match-ups.

I could keep going but I know Self does things his way and not how fans might see it. We win more than we lose, we've had an incredible conference streak not seen in a power conference in decades, and we have the elite status that is hard to get and keep. So life should be good right? Let's hope this team can prove a lot of our doubts wrong.

@BeddieKU23

I like your take on Late Night.

The trouble is this: is there anyone around the program cool enough to take the next step.

The students have been cut out of the loop.

The life blood of the myth of college basketball is the students enthusiams for it, and the adults feeding off that enthusiasm to support its management and underwriting, and toleration and trust of taking the next step. Cut the students off as well springs of the next step, or eliminate the adults confidence in it being taken, and you will just get MORE deadening commercial updating by PR planners, vetted through university counsel.

As I can recall the birth of Late Night, and its evolution, I agree the teeth of timeliness and relevance have gone out of it.

Regarding Oubre, I no longer think Self was bringing him along slow at all. I believe he had a simple knee injury and he couldn't play worth a hoot on it. And so Self and Oubre and his advisors, who have to think about making hay at the end of the season, probably had to deliberate and come up with an approach to the injury that did the least harm to his earning potential at the end of the season. Maybe I am wrong, but guys with his incredible talent don't go from looking like he did to how he has because they get comfortable. That's just implausible, if you've played the game. Wilt Chamberlain could play the game the minute he arrived. Andrew Wiggins could play the game the minute he arrived. These mega talents can play the game from the git go; that's the whole point of the OAD thing. Oubre could easily be playing in the NBA right now without an injury. He is making a pit stop at D1 to help D1, and to give him a little transition into adulthood.

In all probability the reason Alexander's progress has been been start and stop is lesser injuries, too. He's too good not to come in an beat out Landen Lucas for Chrissakes. This is never about Self holding guys back. He didn't hold Xavier back, or Josh, back even a little.

Regarding Self and his approach, IMHO, there is nothing wrong with it that a contract with Nike would not cure. He would be wiping up with the same shoe contract as Cal. Period. What Pitino, Self and adidas have to figure out is how to more effectively distribute the talent that leans to adidas already. It is being spread too thinly between too many adidas programs. They either have to get more talent in the adidas lean category, or they have to reduce the number of schools that get the adidas leans.

And it won't work to go out and bid talent away from Nike IMHO.

Someone has to start a new summer league, which someone is probably already starting to do.

One suggestion I have is to internalize basketball academies from an off campus phenomenon into an on campus one--to embed high school basketball academy programs into the elite university programs themselves, the way high school programs are already being embedded into junior colleges for special students with special needs.

KU and adidas, or whomever KU decided to ally with, need to beat the existing system to the punch and grab the talent before it gets to public high school. Get them into the college campus in 9th grade, shape high school curriculum on campus to accelerate the grooming of these guys socially, academically and athletically in the embedded programs for an eventual seamless transition to a year, or two, or three, or four of college ball. Play year round ball. Take over the summer game and academies. Put it back in an academic setting on the university where the guys will matriculate and play. It will cost some money, but money seems never be an impediment to this stuff.

(Note: all opining and speculating. No insider knowledge of how things actually work.)

@jaybate-1.0

The key to making late night take the next step is to incorporate the things the students like with the traditions.

Kansas is special because of the tradition. It gives AFH it's mystique and makes it special. Students and players appreciate that. But the history doesn't make it cool. The history just makes it special.

You have to be both cool and special to come out on top these days. Special is history and mystique. Cool is hip, current, and modern.

We need to make the program hip, current and modern. I like the gray uniforms because it is something different. Maybe for late night KU wears special "late night only" jerseys rather than just the regular practice digs. The skits are fun for the players and students, but adding a special guest would be awesome to make things really pop.

When people think of Kansas, they think of a flat state in the middle of nowhere. That doesn't attract recruits. When they think Kansas basketball, they think of the history and tradition and winning. That attracts recruits, but only so much. We have to add the cool element to really succeed.

@justanotherfan

You are right about the perception of KU and its geographic limitations. Self often points out that KU is always recruting on other peoples turfs because the in-state talent is usually sub-par. I thought Conner would pan out, Ellis will have a good career before he's gone. He's got a chance for top 10 scorer in history. But that talent isn't every year so that's why Self has used tuff non-conference schedules to attract talent all over the country.

@jaybate 1.0

Not sure we have a single commodity that will take it to the next step. What about bringing Paul Pierce in, let him play in the scrimmage with the kids. Bring Andrew Wiggins in, or the Morris Twins. Or assembling the 08 team for a celebration. Those are what I got off the top of my head. I know Aaron Rodgers likes to go to games, plenty of actors make their way too.

I do wish we had Nike back. Just from a fan's perspective buying KU gear I always thought the Nike gear was so much better than what we have now.

@justanotherfan

I always like to take what I am given, so let's work with special and cool.

Defining special is ideal market research task. Market research is great at defining what is perceived as special about any brand, or activity.

Defining cool is where it gets sticky. The kids decide what is cool. They know what is cool and what is cool is what is unique and different about their current generation, or two, from the previous ones. Each generation defines itself negatively as NOT what its parent's generation was about, but that is never something to build on. It is when they define themselves positively about what they embrace and the way they embrace it. College basketball is in real trouble on this count, because it has turned its back on the kids for the money of the adults. Fewer seats for kids in worse locations. Frankly, its turned its back on media, too. It feeds the media talking points and all it wants is to control the message that gets out. That reduction of media to a house organ is a big chunk of why coverage of college basketball has turned geriatric and stale. We could put all ESPN broadcasters in the same cryogenic tank Self keeps Hunter Mickelson and the only one anyone would even notice was missing was Jay Bilas, because Bilas is the only one actually thinking and talking about stuff other than the talking points.

The arena experience is hugely tilted to the adults now too. Adults are a dead end in defining what is cool. If I am a recruit walking into AFH, it and the people look increasingly like a fundamentalist church on steroids and an energy drink. There are also always the cliche six guys with the letters of Kansas on their bare chests with their faces painted blue. The last original, slightly visually edgy thing I saw in the field house was the kids holding up the Curry mural of John Brown. It spoke on several levels in the way only a new generation can think differently enough to do authentically.

In order to save KU basketball as a living myth, they are going to have to move the kids back into the center and let them off the leash again, otherwise we are talking pro crowds with the sound system amped up a little higher.

It appears that KU and most of the other elite BB programs have a big problem based upon the last couple of posts. I don't disagree that screwing students in terms of the # of seats or location is bad. The problem is that all of the major programs have become very expensive and with the exception of big 10 teams BB also carries those programs. UNC, Duke, Kansas and UK are pretty much in the same football pickle. A good team every now and then but nothing to hang your hat on over the long run. Where does the money come from. Well in Kansas it does not come from the state. Here and in most places it comes from Williams fund members and their counterparts at other schools.

Not only does the big money come from athletic team supporters but from a small percentage of them who can afford to drop a mil or so here and there. I find it hard to believe that many of those people are "with it" or "cool".

It has not escaped my attention that most of the posters here (including myself) do not like the ugly uniforms dumped on us by Addidas. I'm sure that our tastes in unis are not that far from that of the big donors. Although the recruits may like dayglo colors I don't think that the people who build new dorms, new practice facilities and pay a pretty penny for coaches do.

Now we could do away with the expensive things but then the kids wouldn't like that either. I do not think that things are as bad as many here seem to think. Supposedly we need to do a bunch of things including installing a new offensive package to recruit 5-8 OADs. In reality there are not nearly enough kids with the needed skills to stock more than 3 to 4 schools at the max.

Chicken little was NOT right. The sky is not falling. Part of the problem is that as a group we are too close to the situation. We know almost too much about the weaknesses of this SF or that PF or PG. I feel extremely confident that the real board rats at other schools think that their guy sucks at this or that and how can we possibly beat KU. Imagine how the fans of Baylor, Mizery, or KSU must feel. They generally do not beat us and we do beat them.

@sfbahawk

There are a few mega donors that wag the dog for sure. And there is concern about what kind of wider influence through out the $1Billion annual university budget and state legislature such mega donors seek to acquire through the back door of the athletic department.

But there is another big dog on the block now to stay: Big Shoe.

adidas cut a $45 million deal with UL.

Nike and adidas are reputedly waaaaaaaay into schools through contracts with the school and the coach. And the UL deal looks like the elevator is going up.

Big TV + Big Shoe + Big Donor = College Sports, Inc.

Throw in the 800 lb gorilla of Big Gaming operating in the back ground reputedly laundering money for Big Intell and Big Narco and you've got a really hunky dory basketball culture. :-)

The sky ain't fallin'.

The money is risin'!

@jaybate-1.0 Maybe one movie flippin' too many you watched was "Conspiracy Theory"... & then again maybe not...Either or, waaaay too much for this old geezer to put on my worry list. SZ & BS have what they have (major unlimited monetary spondeulix) & us peons are left to forage & squander for the bread crumbs that fall by the wayside. So RCJH & all the "Fandom" that goes with it & just ride the wave as long as we can !! Basically the rah, rah bullshit is that we really do have, & value is added as it is.. Without TWC in the future, mine & many other's time is certainly, finitely limited. Plus on top of that, I'm beginning to loose a little interest after the lockout. Just my opinion.

@globaljaybird

Ok, I promise. No more lifting the curtain on the Wizards. Just rah-rah. 😇

@sfbahawk I wish I could upvote your post 1,000 times.