🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Sorry for the multiple topics started recently, I promise to slow down. There has just been so much good stuff going on lately.

With the recent add of Bragg, I saw some posters write about not wanting another recruit for the development of Greene and Svi. And the more I ponder that thought, the more I agree. With the exception of Zimmerman, I would rather not sign anymore.

As of right now, we have will have experienced wings next year (I am assuming Oubre enters the draft). Next year, we will have:
1.) Mason/Graham, 2.)Selden/Graham, and 3.)Greene/Svi. And we know Svi can bump up to the 2 guard position rather easily.

The positive side in having another talented wing is an injury (which wouldn't be devastating unless it's Mason). And the apocalypse I believe @HighEliteMajor pointed out with an unexpected draft entry and Svi plays ball oversees. The college game is so unpredictable that Self would almost have to cover his tracks with a recruit. But if everything stands, I would rather have experienced players who can run the Self offense over another talented wing that leaves after one year and disrupts ego's, roles, and development. Another talented wing assures someone transferring.

What do you guys think would be the best situation to the Hawks? Self has talked about the simple strategy of just trying to get the more talented players, but I am not sold because of the complexity of team dynamics.

@JhawkAlum : I think after what happened in 2011 with both of the twins and Selby declaring Self is now hedging his bets when he can and recruiting to the max. At the start of that season everyone thought that the over hyped Selby would be gone but hoped the lure of playing one more year together for the twins would keep Mook and Kief from declaring. Then Kief and Marcus both had good seasons, were able to showcase their talents to the league and both became lotto picks. We then struck out on Otto Porter and DeAndre Daniels so that left HCBS picking up K.Yo, Breaden and Jamari really late in the process.

The day of the developmental 3 Star Recruit is over. That's what I think.

@KansasComet sad day.

Who always asked this one last year?? HEM was it?? Would you rather have K. Shepard for 2-3 years or Joel for 1??

I say recruit the talent and let the minutes sort themselves out. As someone pointed out on another thread, if we stop pursuing a guy, there's a chance that could come back to haunt us if that guy ends up at Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa State or even another national school like UK, UNC, Duke, etc.

All of this doesn't happen in a vacuum. Basically every top notch player will be playing somewhere in college next year. Only two top players in the OAD era have ever played overseas, and only three or four others have had eligibility issues that kept them from playing at all. Everyone else suited up somewhere, so if we back off a guy, chances are we will see him somewhere else for the tournament, and potentially somewhere else in our own conference.

@KansasComet

I think players can still develop. The question is whether or not they will develop. Every class has 5-7 three star recruits that turn into all conference type players at the major conference level. Thing is, there are hundreds of three star recruits going to all sorts of different schools. Steph Curry was a 3 star recruit. I think Doug McDermott was as well. But there were lots of guys that graded out just as well as Curry and McDermott coming out of HS that played like 3 star recruits once they made it to college.

Some guys will develop. Some will even become college stars/NBA stars. Most won't be anything more than a college role player. You're more likely to get a Jamari Traylor from a 3 star recruit than you are to get a Doug McDermott.

@JhawkAlum I think basketball is more than a year by year thing and that if we want to have experienced players two seasons from now it would be wise if Self continues to bring in as many good players as possible. If they are good enough to push our starters to the bench then so be it. Maybe those guys stay another year after that and are awesome seniors. If they aren't then maybe those recruits stay another year and are experienced sophs. You can never have too much talent. We are short on it right now to compete at the highest level.

@JhawkAlum

We sign as many as we can get. This class of kids is very good with a few potential great players in it. I say we sign a wing (Brown) and another big (Diallo or Zimmerman). Dorsey would be back-court insurance for any departures. A great combo guard who will be around a few years.

Jaylen Brown is a bit like Andrew Wiggins, off the charts athleticism, can shoot and can be a very good defender. If he wants to come to KU, move over Greene and Svi. I'm sorry you can't let a talent like him go. We haven't seen Greene put 2 good games in a row together at any point in his career. How can you feel confident that he will ever be consistent. I know Self and most are extremely high on Svi but the fact of the matter is even next year he's still a College Freshman by age. Will we see a big jump is his game next year, or is his ceiling still 3-4 years from now? If we are in the "now" stage, you try and sign Brown. He's got a college ready body, and game to match similar to a Stanley Johnson at Zona.

Diallo is offensively a few years away from consistent production. He's got an unmatched motor for a big man, putback specialist, best rim protector in the class. He's the kind of guy who will really be good Sophomore/Junior year. A perfect recruit for Self to develop.

Zimmerman has a skillset that is 1 and done for his size. Not your prototypical 5 man in that he is a great passer, can handle the ball some and shoot out to the 3 point line.

Any of these guys can be potential upgrades at their position to what we currently have and they aren't OAD's except Brown.

In business we always say that having more work than you can handle is good problem to have...considering the alternative. The metaphor can be extended to basketball and you could say that having more players than available playing time is a much better problem to have than the alternative of having lots of available playing time and not enough quality players.

I hope we sign 4 more this year - we'll have the spots.

understandable to ask the question about Greene how do we know if he will ever put 2 good games together? answer- - - - - we don't. but you can turn that around how do we know Jaylen would? answer- - - - - we don't. have seen to many times kids have gotten hype has all the tools and sometimes it just doesn't come together. we CAN'T say for sure 100% that Jaylen is THE MAN. what a lot of these McDonalds all stars super stud high school ballers fail to realize is their the stud in HIGH SCHOOL making moves and dunks and dribbling feats being flashy where they can get away with a lot of that because they just plain out talent the others around them. then they get to College and try those SAME MOVES, try doing a lot of other things the same as in high school, go up for their shot and come back with spalding written all over their forehead. they seem to forget they are going against other players that for the most part are just as talented as they are. not trying to knock Jaylen, if he comes AWSOME but just trying to say we don't know for sure about a kid that hasn't stepped on to the college basketball floor yet, hasn't played a second. BIG DIFFERENCE

@Kip_McSmithers Agreed. Morris Twins leaving may have surprised Self but I remember having a pretty good year in 2012 after they left.

I hope we recruit CAREFULLY!

More is not always better. If we oversign at one position and have weaknesses at another, we are bound to reduce our chances in March.

I really want Zim!

If we just land him, I'd say we had a great recruiting year... and that is regardless who we lose early.

That doesn't mean I would have a problem landing a couple more players. I'd just be careful not to lose some of the talent we have.

It isn't always a great thing to recruit potential at the loss of experience.

I'm kind of tired of being one of the youngest teams in America, AGAIN!

We need a balance. Some OAD-quality players mixed in with experienced quality players.

I am starting to see the possibility of losing Kelly. If that is the case, we have guys that can slip into the 3.... but we won't have that star swing 3. I wouldn't mind landing one of those!

Part of it is about who will be available. I know Self wants Thon Maker. Does anyone know if he got his reclassification?

Where does that guy play? 7-foot PG? I can't really see him pinned into the low post. The guy has freakish talent, but does landing him just mean another media circus and everyone having to placate their own ambitions for the star recruit?

I'm afraid your hopes are going to be dashed for Zimmerman don't think he is coming I've seen multiple reports and none of them have him landing here. I've seen Kentucky then I also feel that being local and have also heard he may just stay local and commit to UNLV. we DO have another chance and that's with Thon Maker, still deciding if he is going to re- classify for this year, if he does we stand in pretty good shape with him multiple show we are in the lead for him that would be a huge get just have to wait and see

@jayballer54

But, but, but...

Isn't that what "they" said about Wigs, Embiid and Bragg?

:-)

Landing a Nike lean appears the toughest, though KU adidas-ed Wigs.

Note: I am turning adidas into a verb that describes the raiding of players from other shoeco/agent conveyor belts. I will conjugate it for everyone.

I adidas-ed Bragg from UA.
You adidas-ed Wigs from Nike.
He/she/it adidas-ed Xavier from Nike.
We adidased Zimmerman from Nike.
They adidas-ed Newman from whomever.

After the adidas-UK signing of Bragg in UA treads, I am particularly psyched about raiding UA talent, even though Pitino might expect it to be a smaller pool of talent than Nike.

@justanotherfan In our situation it's not about whether they can develop or not. On average we have 2-4 Scholarships a year to give out. No way are any of those Scholarships going to 3 star recruits unless we absolutely strike out in recruiting.

This article says yes, we need more recruits.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/09/cbt-recruiting-roundup-carlton-bragg-impact-at-kansas-kobie-eubanks-brandon-sampson-cut-list/ ↗

@KansasComet

Let's look at this from shameless PR talking points.

When KU gets an OAD/TAD type, we say: Bill Self signed a player.

When KU does not sign a player, we say: adidas failed to attract the player to KU.

:-)

@wissoxfan83

I predicted yesterday that KU will have 5-6 OAD/TADs on the roster next season.

Today I might even up it to 5-7.

Two seasons from now I expect KU to be at 8-10 OAD/TADs on roster at KU.

Gotta happen.

So gonna happen.

@jaybate-1.0 you are an a-did-ass!!! Jk

@Crimsonorblue22

"I think girls who insult people are very attractive."

--Howard Hawks, Director of "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes," "Rio Lobo," "El Dorado," etc.

@jaybate-1.0 couldn't resist!

@Crimsonorblue22

Couldn't either!

I hope we get a slew of top talent. We can platoon 'em.

@jaybate-1.0 Upvote for the Gentlemen Prefer Blondes reference.

@wissoxfan83

The Basketball Bible on recruiting

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and ye shall find. Always trust in thy PetroShoeCo/Agency complex."--The Book of Shoes, 7:7

@KUSTEVE

Gosh I love that flick. STILL!

Great insight fellas. I stand corrected. I just hate having players like Greene who have been patient, payed their dues, and worked hard but are left on the outside looking in.

I think what we need to do is go after guys that fill a need, ie rim protector. To fill this need, I say we land Diallo.

Top talent + experience + length + trey shooting = National Title.

Kentucky has set the example on how to have the potential for an undefeated season by having a lot of height and shot blocking ability. Combine that with seasoned veterans and good three point shooting and very few teams will come close.

Now I'm not saying that Self turns Kansas into D League team.

What I'm saying is that The Squid is trying to put together a team like this year's UK squad every year. Self has to find a way to compete against him or else we are always going to be very good, but never capable of beating Kentucky.

Hypothetical scenario -

Oubre leaves for the NBA. Selden, Alexander, and Svi stay. Green is a junior and hopefully less of a wild hair. Mason and Devonte remain the point guards. Jamari, Perry, and Bragg are the other power forwards. Self also gets Diallo plus Jaylen Brown or Thon Maker (given that he reclassifies).

This hypothetical team, which is actually somewhat realistic, would have the potential to beat the current UK squad.

@KUSTEVE

What the heck! Tri-toon'em!!!!

What the heck! V-toon'em for victory!!!!

What the heck! Let's sign an endorsement deal with Manitou V-Toons!!!!!

http://www.manitoupontoonboats.com/performance/vtoon ↗

!MAN_HullVP.jpg ↗

There is no limit to this endorsement stuff!!!!!!

We can out market UK!

By gosh, Forrest Claire Allen had the hues to promote the building of KU Memorial Stadium way back 1920.

And KU built 16k seat Allen Field House in 1955-56 for the 1957 season when most colleges were playing in 3-6k seat arenas.

If there is no putting brakes on what is happening to college basketball, then let's mount some Saturn V's to KU and get going!

!3toonKU.jpg ↗

P.S.: I haven't ridden in one of these Manitou pontoons yet, but they seem like a very good innovation. And I'm not connected with them in any way. Just really, really like the idea of a fast, good handling pontoon boat for partying and skiing. Fiberglass deck boats have been taken about as far as they can go and scratched, chipped fiberglass v-hull keels and cracking gel coats top side could use a rest.

@KansasComet Good point. Until the OAD rule is changed you may be correct.

@JhawkAlum

I totally agree with you, but when the rules change, and everyone starts embracing them, then its a new game.

Regarding Brannen, he is such a great shooter he really doesn't have to worry about any of the guys that might join the team. I really don't think anyone can shoot him off the floor. He is too tall and too good of a shot. If he just gets a leeeeeeetle more consistent on the defensive end, which he almost certainly will by next season, he may not get 35mpg, but he will get 20mpg and all the 3ptas he wants.

@jaybate-1.0 and he needs to go to wts-on time!

@Crimsonorblue22 Yeah, no more showing up a half hour late.

@jaybate-1.0 I was thinking we could a KU Jayhawks private airport, with a landing strip with our logo on it. I was thinking we could get Adidas to stick up some LCD signs where we could flash the player's picture as they roll into the tarmac. There, we could have a small crowd cheering as they exit the plane. Then we pick them up with a KU themed Escalade with spinning wheels, with a hologram of Drake activated when they open the door.

@KUSTEVE !image.jpg ↗

@Crimsonorblue22 He's going to be great..I am pumped...

I think as many recruits as possible should be offered. Bill Self recruits people who have the potential to play pro ball; I don't know what he and the staff tell the recruits, but I expect he is honest. Both Beal and Wall said in interviews tonight that their coaches guaranteed them nothing. I think if Coach Self thinks a player has pro potential, does it really matter if he is a OAD, a TAD, or horror of horrors, a 3AD? I mean, what, 5-7 of the NC team got NBA contracts. Sasha landed an NBA contract, but asked out of it to play in his home country. Wiggins and Embiid are perfect examples: Wiggins was expected to be a OAD, and he was. When Coach Roberts spotted Embiid and pointed him out to Coach Self, they thought he would be a project. At that point, he was ranked about #100, and would have seemed to be a 3- or 4-year player, but after he committed to KU, he shot quickly into the Top 10. At that point, I was thinking TAD, but he turned out to be a OAD. Wayne was projected as a OAD. If he develops, should it matter if he stays even 3 years, as long as he develops and gets to the NBA? Coach Self has said he expects Brannen Greene to play in the NBA. If it takes 3 years for him to develop, should that be discouraging to him?

With the juggling of multiple good players, many may wonder if they will have the durability for the NBA schedule, but many first and second year players have spot roles off the bench, giving them a chance to adjust to the rigors of a pro season.

@KUSTEVE Drew actually used to pick up the recruits in an escalade with spinning wheels.

@wrwlumpy When Roy was still here one of his providers of transportation to staff (complimentary of course) was Crown Chevrolet on South Iowa. I bought 2 trucks & 1 car there in about 6 months, one of which was a loaded black Tahoe that had been demo'ed to NFL HOFer Willie Lanier. Most of the autos comp'ed out to big shots by a dealer have every bell & whistle available; digital touch screens, Bose stereos, bun warmers, etc. List price on this one was around 48K & that not only was a long while back, but was one helluva truck to boot. I think Bill & staff are driving Lincolns now but haven't paid much attention to that in recent years. But rest assured not many head coaches in D1 are scrunching their butt into a Corrolla-maybe their kids are, but dealerships write off much of that expense for advertising & cut very few corners. I wouldn't be surprised if some get don't cars equipped with hyd or pneumatic lift kits, powered woofers & tweeters, or more. Of course certainly none would have a the optional table dancer? LOL...I wonder if maybe Drew was over the top with ermine mud flaps & curb feelers on that Caddy? Oh I forgot, feelers have now been replaced by digital cameras...

@globaljaybird I can't wait till we get to the OGAD rule.

One GAME and Done

I don't want any more perimeter players, not even Brown, even if we lose Oubre.

Sophomore Svi/Junior Greene will contribute more and have better TEAM chemistry than OAD Freshmen Brown.

We could really use another post player (Diello or Zimmerman) but I'm not losing sleep if we don't get anyone either. Even if Cliff leaves, you have the same front court with another year of experience and Bragg replaces Cliff. If Cliff does come back, even better.

PS If freshman Wiggins couldn't carry us to the promised land; freshman Brown won't either.

@jayballer54

I agree with you we have no idea what either might do next year. Self has had pretty good success with bringing in OAD wings so you would have to think Brown has a shot to dominate from day 1. The only reason he isn't the #1 recruit is because Simmons is a beast and dominated HS kids. Brown isn't a finished product but he's in the same mold as other elite wings. Other than shooting to me, he's an upgrade over Greene.

Ranking the players still available by need:
1)Diallo
2)Zimmerman
3)Brown
4) Upperclassmen Transfer
5)Dorsey
6) Maker/Rabb
7)Ingram

Diallo to me is the biggest need, developmental big with shotblocking/rebounding skills. I see him as a 3 year player with his offense needing a lot of work.

Zimmerman is combo of everything and likely OAD.

Brown is a OAD wing with Wiggins like Athleticism.

I have Transfer at 4, nobody seems to be talking about taking a 1 year graduate transfer like Tarik Black or someone who has to sit a year and develop and play in 2016. Especially the bigs as we will have 3 Senior's.

Dorsey would be a great pickup to get a top 30 guard that can learn from Mason/Graham and Selden next year. Would be a great backup or potential starter down the road to replace Selden.

I have Maker/Rabb at 6 because 1 we don't know yet if Maker will reclassify. We are one of the 3-4 schools recruiting him the hardest but with UK right there what confidence can you have we could get him. Rabb has said he will visit for a game but everything I've seen with him is he will stay on west coast. Maybe I'm wrong, Rabb & Zimmerman have played together for years if we landed 1 we could get both?

@FarSideHawk - I agree completely on the perimeter players. If Oubre leaves, and everyone else stays, I prefer that over adding any perimeter player on the board.

Self of course is in a tough spot. He doesn't know who will be back.

@drgnslayr said:

I hope we recruit CAREFULLY!

More is not always better. If we oversign at one position and have weaknesses at another, we are bound to reduce our chances in March.

I really want Zim!

If we just land him, I'd say we had a great recruiting year... and that is regardless who we lose early.

That doesn't mean I would have a problem landing a couple more players. I'd just be careful not to lose some of the talent we have.

It isn't always a great thing to recruit potential at the loss of experience.

I'm kind of tired of being one of the youngest teams in America, AGAIN!

We need a balance. Some OAD-quality players mixed in with experienced quality players.

I am starting to see the possibility of losing Kelly. If that is the case, we have guys that can slip into the 3.... but we won't have that star swing 3. I wouldn't mind landing one of those!

Part of it is about who will be available. I know Self wants Thon Maker. Does anyone know if he got his reclassification?

Where does that guy play? 7-foot PG? I can't really see him pinned into the low post. The guy has freakish talent, but does landing him just mean another media circus and everyone having to placate their own ambitions for the star recruit?

Texas has a 7 foot star that isn't pinned to the post and their offense is a mish mosh mess right now with everyone out of sync. Nice to have as a "hey, look at that guy" but not sure it really makes for good team basketball overall. KU does well to have a nice balance at all points in the game; a good post big, a big that can hit mid- to deep, solid wings that can balance between the deep ball and slashing to the rim to draw fouls, a lethal SG and a PG that can drive the bus.

@twocoach

If you are taking about Myles Turner, he always said he wanted to play a stretch 4 or 5 and be a face up type of player, much like a Dirk Nowitzki and not a back to the basket players like most 7 footers. I thought he felt KU did not offer that opportunity.

@JayHawkFanToo So, if Turner would have come to Kansas, where would we be? Maybe not talking about outside-in.

I think you're correct. He had the stretch 4/5 on his mind. Dirk is a good example.

If he'd come to Kansas, he would have gotten major back to the basket work. I'm not really sure how that would have harmed his "stretch" game. Getting major back to the basket work would have only expanded his game and made him a better, more well rounded player. And he would have had many opportunities to "stretch."

And maybe we aren't changing our approach. Maybe all of this works out for the best. But I think Turner could have fit here very nicely, even if he apparently didn't.

I believe there has to be some continuity between seasons which comes from the 3-4 year players. I would like to see a footer recruited, one with reasonable athleticism but not a OAD or TAD. Lets say a Jeff Withey type, one that has to develop but when they do become quite serviceable as a JR and potential starter as a SR. While developing they provide a valuable service on the practice squad as an added bonus.

Not saying I am against the OAD/TAD players just that there is a benefit to 3-4 year players that is a bit less tangible.

AND Hello all, glad to find where the people talking KUBALL instead of having petty fights over random tirades disappeared too!

@HighEliteMajor

No question that improving his back to the basket skills would have made him a much, much better rounded player, but if I understand correctly, he does not like playing back to the basket and prefers the face up game and Texas offered that to him and KU did not. As you know, Coach Self does not "guarantee" playing time and much less style of play; players have to earn playing time and play the system Coach Self has set for the season, usually the High-Low.

@twocoach

"Texas has a 7 foot star that isn't pinned to the post and their offense is a mish mosh mess right now with everyone out of sync."

I mentioned long ago that Myles may not have helped us. Sort of depends on his mindset. His real desire is to be a big 3 at the next level. His goal is to be a bigger version of Kevin Durant, his long-time idle.

He's a long ways from having the skill set of Kevin Durant. But I've been amazed at how much body size he has put on in a short time. He's starting to look more like a post player all the time, whether he wants to or not.

I don't think people in here realize how important it is for Perry to hit some 3s. Every time Perry hits a 3 he makes a statement for the Kansas recruitment of big men... especially those who think they have guard-like skills. Come to Kansas and we'll give you the outside if you can handle it!

I continue to wonder what our team would be like with Myles as a Jayhawk. Just because Texas' offense is a big mess doesn't mean it would be that way at Kansas had he chosen to come here.

I really like Rick Barnes as a person. He's probably the nicest coach in the Big 12. But I feel the same as many feel, that he doesn't maximize the talent he is blessed with.

Even though we always want to beat Texas... it is better for Kansas if the Big 12 starts producing winners besides Kansas (in March). So I support all the Big 12 teams except when they play us.

@Kubie Welcome Kubie and nice post. Have a cold :beers: with me.

@drgnslayr I'm really not trying to make fun of Turner, but does anyone else think he looks like Steve Urkel? If Steve could run, I think they would run like each other, too. Ewww, I'm not very nice!!

@Crimsonorblue22

Uncanny that you discovered the resemblance.... haha.... YES, I see it!

@Crimsonorblue22
Didn't Aaron Miles looked like Rudy Huxtable from the Bill Cosby show?

@globaljaybird Rick Pitino's demo from his Lexus dealership in Louisville.

!image.jpg ↗

@wrwlumpy I'm tellin ya, the car moguls spare no expense-it's an advertising tax write off for many. Think a few years back some do-gooder in Lawrence raised hell cause all the coaches drove cars with dealer tags & felt as that was an "improper benefit" that other prof & administrators were not receiving. So maybe they have to put real tags on their wheels now-go figure.

@globaljaybird Yeah, give me a fully loaded Escalade and see how fast I make it down to DMV for tags.

@brooksmd Tags is a bargain. Now the insurance & taxes? Whew !

@jaybate-1.0 Coach Self wants another ring and banner to hang in AFH. In addition to your prediction Jaybate, I raise you that HCBS will get his next ring in 2-4 years. Final Four appearance maybe even sooner.

@Crimsonorblue22
Haha. Thats hilarious. My daugher said that same thing watching the game last evening. "Is it me, or does that guy look like Erkel?" I said yeah... On lots of steriods. :)

@cragarhawk I can't describe the way he runs and not be rude, so everyone just watch him.

My kids are playing basketball right now. One Jr high, one High school. Cant recall which one was playing the other night. Doesnt matter. The point is.... There was an official that looked and ran like Beldar Conehead(Dan Akroyd) from Coneheads. If ya can picture that. I couldnt take the guy seriously... One of the funniest things ive seen

@JayHawkFanToo BG diff/really no comparison being coached by Bill Self or Rick Barnes. More Kool aide barkeep !! LOL

@cragarhawk

I watched Jaleel White, aka Steve Urkel, in a celebrity basketball match and he was nothing like his TV persona, he was actually a pretty decent player. Maybe this is a video of Turner's early years...:)

[link text](

@globaljaybird

Most top players/kids that age think they are good enough to go to the NBA and don't need any coaching...of course they are wrong, but good luck getting them to agree. This is why Calipari gets top players, by promising perks rather than coaching.

@JayHawkFanToo

Yes i think you must be correct. I dont why they didnt have a link to this recruiting video on rivals during his recruitment. Haha

@JayHawkFanToo hilarious!!!! Thx!!

This is a bit long but it is nice to see that we are supposedly this involved on so many recruits.

Kansas finally got on the board in the 2015 class on Thursday, when five-star forward Carlton Bragg announced his commitment to the Jayhawks (after initially saying Kentucky).

There probably wasn’t any real concern in Lawrence about the lack of commitments in the senior class, but there is a segment of the Jayhawks fan base that breathed a slight sigh of relief late last week.

Now, where does Kansas go from here?

The Jayhawks have the No. 36-ranked recruiting class in the country, but expect that number to improve dramatically over the next few months. There is still plenty left to be decided in the 2015 class, with seven of the top 10 players still uncommitted, along with three other five-star players.

And Kansas just happens to be involved with at least six of those remaining five-star prospects, as well as another top-35 prospect. So how might the Jayhawks go about finalizing this class?

Jaylen Brown (No. 2): This one is expected to drag out until after the high school season is finished. Brown isn’t tipping his hand one way or another, but Kansas is in very good shape after getting an official visit in the fall. UCLA, Kentucky and North Carolina are also in strong spots, while in-state options Georgia and Georgia Tech aren’t going anywhere.

Malik Newman (No. 3): The Jayhawks have picked up momentum in this one, especially after Kentucky landed a commitment in November from Isaiah Briscoe (No. 13) -- on top of the Wildcats likely returning at least two of their four current guards. Kentucky is far from giving up, though. In-state schools Mississippi and Mississippi State are also in the mix.

Ivan Rabb (No. 5): Kansas might be playing catch-up for Rabb, as local school California has done a terrific job so far with the 6-foot-10 power forward. Rabb also visited Kentucky, and Arizona is still there despite losing some of the momentum it had early in the recruitment.

Cheick Diallo (No. 7): Kansas has been in the driver’s seat or the co-driver’s seat in Diallo’s recruitment for most of the past year, along with Iowa State. Kentucky has made a push, too. Diallo is another player who won’t make a decision in the near future, likely waiting to see what happens with the other dominoes.

Stephen Zimmerman (No. 10): This recruitment has changed so much, but Kansas is the pick on RecruitingNation's Hot Board. He’s also visited Kentucky, UCLA and Arizona, while UNLV gets a boost because of proximity. Zimmerman’s recruitment will continue to take twists and turns.

Brandon Ingram (No. 12): The prevailing thought for much of Ingram’s recruitment was that he would stay in the state of North Carolina, either at North Carolina or Duke. Since visiting Kansas in the fall, though, the Jayhawks have really made up some ground on the in-state options.

Tyler Dorsey (No. 33): In the fall, it looked as if Dorsey would decide early -- but he chose to prolong his recruitment. Kansas had the early buzz after Dorsey’s decommitment from Arizona, but California picked up plenty of momentum in the fall and has made him a priority moving forward. The Jayhawks are behind in this one.

There are a couple of other storylines to watch in relation to Kansas’ recruiting. The Jayhawks have made an effort to get back in the mix for Thomas Bryant (No. 16), who was down to Missouri, Indiana and Syracuse before adding Kentucky to his list recently. Kansas would obviously be playing catch-up for the 6-foot-10 big man. Meanwhile, the Jayhawks are also one of the two schools -- along with Kentucky -- thought to be in good shape for 2016 stud Thon Maker. There has been talk of Maker reclassifying; should that happen, expect Kansas to be in play for his services.

Kansas -- and the prospects it is pursuing -- might have to wait and see how many spots the Jayhawks do have for next season. Kelly Oubre, Cliff Alexander and Wayne Selden are all early-entry NBA candidates. An inconsistent couple of months from each player has left their immediate future up in the air. The common thought is still that Oubre and Alexander will leave, meaning Bill Self could reel in up to three more players.

Of course, there’s the risk of putting so many eggs in the spring recruiting basket -- and the very slim chance that Kansas strikes out on all of its primary targets and has to settle for lesser players to fill spots out of desperation. If three players leave Lawrence early and the Jayhawks miss most of its remaining recruiting targets, that would be a disaster scenario. It’s extremely unlikely, though.

Will Bragg’s commitment create any dominoes for the other big men on Kansas’ wish list? He’s capable of playing alongside most post players because of his ability to step outside and knock down 3-pointers, so it might not make a difference just yet. Should the Jayhawks bring in another big man, though, that likely forces the other remaining power forwards and centers to go elsewhere.

When all the dust settles, Kansas will likely have one of the best recruiting classes in the country, the third-straight season Self has brought in a top-10 group.

Shortly after Bragg made his announcement, a reporter at his news conference asked him whether other big-time recruits would join him in a Jayhawks uniform.

His answer: “I hope so.”

All signs point to Bragg being correct.

@JhawkAlum said:

Great insight fellas. I stand corrected. I just hate having players like Greene who have been patient, payed their dues, and worked hard but are left on the outside looking in.

Greene has been given AMPLE rope to earn that spot and has largely hung himself with it. If he's the best player available then he'll play. I love that players have to earn their time versus having it gifted to them for nothing more than time served.

@twocoach

15 players currently on the roster.

11 players with scholarship.

2 soft scholarships from transfers (Frankamp and White) likely being used by walk-ons Garret and Pollard and can be made available.

2 non- scholarship players - Self and Manning, unlikely they will get one

Garret is a senior and his schoolie, if he is using Frankamp's, will be available at the end of the semester anyway. So, the scholarship for Bragg is available even in no one leaves, and the one being held by Pollard can also be made available. I am sure that they would find a way to help him if they pull the schoolie.

In short, KU will have one more scholarship available even if no one leaves the program. There would also be one scholarship available for every player that leaves for the NBA or transfers. Mickelson is in his fourth year in college, although he is considered a red shirt junior and would be eligible to play immediately at another school if he "chooses" to transfer (I think). I believe this the same might apply tor Lucas (a good student), and he might have 2 years of eligibility left, although I am not sure how it would work for player that graduates in 3 years but because he sat one season would be only a red shirt junior. Last, if Perry graduates after this semester (he is also a very good student), he would be eligible to play without wait, but I would be shocked if he transfers.

At this time and based on performance to date, the only player with a good chance of leaving is Oubre, which BTW his dad indicated could stay more than one year if needed. We should have a better idea towards the end of the season, so it is not a bad thing that prospects are waiting to commit...maybe the KU situation is driving that train.

@JayHawkFanToo

How many top 10 picks come back? The list is slim. That is the facts with Oubre.
This is all while starting less than 10 games and averaging 7pts per game. His ceiling only goes higher from here for the rest of the season. With recruiting we should act like he's gone and try like heck to sign Jaylen Brown. But we are only 15 games in so we should really try and enjoy him while we have him.

With Cliff its less profound. At the beginning of the year he was as good as gone, then the season started. He hasn't started and his post skills have been exposed. So he's slid to the back end of the first round. Now with 20+ games left he has a chance to improve on his weaknesses. If he doesn't I think he may come back although having Bragg signed just further pushes him towards the draft. Self isn't going to tell any 1st round picks to stay, its not how he does things.

@BeddieKU23

Coach Self explained before that he and his staff have connections with NBA scouts and do a detailed analysis for each player considering entering the draft to assess where they will go. For example Marcus was shoo in to go to the League and after they did the evaluation they determined that Markiff was a borderline lottery pick, so he decide to go as well and turned out they both were lottery picks

After the season is over, Coach Self and staff will go through the same exercise for players with NBA potential which at this time are Oubre, Alexander, Ellis, Selden and Traylor. Depending on how the rest of the season develops, particularly in March, one or more players might decide to try the draft and at least, they will have the numbers to make an informed decision.

True this will happen at the end. The only serious discussions will be had with his freshman I believe. Perry hasn't played well enough to make the nba this year. Selden has had far and few between good games that hes completely off the radar now, those are the facts with them. Mason has by far outplayed them and is getting no attention because of his size. He has played like he could have a good future somewhere.

The roster math is a bit complicated, but I think we will sign four this Spring.

13 available scholarships

PG (2): Mason, Graham - no changes here. May add another player, but if so, it's likely to be a combo player.

SG/SF (3): Selden, Svi, Greene - I consider Oubre gone. I think Selden is back unless he absolutely goes berserk over the next couple of months. If so, I am okay with him leaving because there's a good chance that means we have added another title to the trophy case.

PF/C (6): Alexander, Ellis, Lucas, Mickelson, Traylor, Bragg - Lots of players here. For that reason, I think the attention to add players shifts to the perimeter. Unless Alexander is also jumping to the NBA (less than 50% chance right now), there's really not a spot for another guy.

That's 11, as @JayHawkFanToo pointed out.

That gives us 2 more scholarships for sure, but as pointed out above, we may have some flexibility with Lucas and Mickelson as far as their scholarship situation and class situation. That's where I think we may add a fourth guy.

As I said when I reviewed Tyler Dorsey, I like him significantly more as a combo guard than as a shooting guard. If he can slide over and play some point, I am much higher on him. He's just not big enough or athletic enough to really be an impact 2 guard. I worry that he ends up being more like Royce Woolridge and transfers if he tries to stay at the 2.

The big question surrounds Brown and Newman. We are chasing both. We need to get one to solidify the perimeter scoring. Brown is the better overall player, but Newman may be a more dynamic scorer. The other plus with Newman is that you might get lucky and have him return as a sophomore because at 6-3, he's not really an NBA 2 guard. He would need to slide over and play at least some PG to be effective in the NBA. That could mean 2 collegiate seasons with an amazing overall talent. Newman has a lot of similarities to fellow Mississippian Monta Ellis as far as body size, ability to score, etc. Ellis was a bit more reliant on speed, whereas Newman is more explosive athletically, but there is the potential that Newman is a difference maker in college because he won't be undersized on the wing.

If I had to pick a guy in the current recruiting class that could score 40 in a game if he had to, Newman would be the first pick, with Zimmerman second, Brown third and Simmons fourth. Not saying that any of these guys are ball hogs, but they have the talent to get it going and shoot something like 12-17 from the floor with 10-12 points from the line type of game. Throw in a few threes and you've got close to 40. That's a special type of talent.

I think we are pretty secure from major disaster. Mason, Graham, Greene and Svi aren't going anywhere so our perimeter is not terrible. Perry is likely to stay along with Traylor, adding Bragg plus hopeful improvement from either Mickleson or Lucas, leaves us in decent shape everywhere. Now it seems to me our recruiting goals should be an impact perimeter guy to provide depth if Selden or Oubre leave, plus at least one more big to avoid having to rely on Hunter or Landan for much.

@justanotherfan

Nice breakdown of the roster.

If Alexander really does stay I say we pursue another big. Mickelson & Lucas are not starters. I don't believe we can rely on them to ever become what we may have hoped from them. The other reason for signing at least 1 more big is that next year Ellis, Traylor, and Mickelson are gone anyway. If cliff stays and has a great season he's bound for the NBA. You never know the impact Bragg may have. He's not generally regarded as a OAD but you never know with a top 20 kid. You could potentially have just Lucas left after next year. So while we look deep in the front-court a serious hole opens up in 16-17.
My perfect Scenario is sign Diallo and use one of the remaining slots on a PF/C transfer who can sit out the year. If we get lucky and either Dorsey/Newman/Brown comes to KU our perimeter is absolutely loaded regardless of Selden's decision. Best case is he comes back again and tries to become a Junior monster. Lovett is still considering us and would be PG insurance possibly a redshirt candidate to stash away.

I agree we need more recruits for 16/17 but I was just saying we have successfully avoided HEM's apocalypse proposal. To me it seems we are maybe even off the merry-go-round some what with our solid young point guards and talent that is more likely to stay (Selden, Ellis, Greene, Svi) than go (Oubre and maybe Alexander depending on how he finishes the year). Bragg is borderline OAD. We have had good success landing 1 or 2 possible OAD's in the spring. So basically I am saying, I'm not worried.

We need a rim protector like we had with Aldrich, Withey and Embiid. Zimmerman would fit the bill unless Thon Maker becomes available. Thon Maker is expected to reclassify and would easily become the top ranked player, although there are lingering questions about his transfer to a Canadian HS and the relationship with his guardian Ed Smith that moved to Canada with him. UK, Indiana and Louisville appear to be in the lead ↗, Indiana even offered a scholarship to his younger brother Matur Maker. We should know more the first part of February.

In a way, it is a good thing that KU has not filled the scholarships early since there are a number of quality players still available and some elite schools are already short on or out of scholarships altogether.

@JayHawkFanToo

I'd rather Thon didn't reclassify and came in the Class of 2016 because that's where our frontcourt hole opens up. As @BeddieKU23 said above, we will lose 3 frontcourt guys after next season at a minimum, with the possibility that Bragg and/or Alexander is also gone, meaning we will be very thin up front going into the 2016-2017 season. I'd rather have Maker in that class than in the current one because he's almost certainly an OAD.

Looking around the recruiting landscape right now, the class has kind of filled out strangely. Every player ranked from 17 to 32 on the ESPN 100 is already committed. Of the players ranked 20-50 (the non-OAD high level recruits) only #33 SG Tyler Dorsey and #37 PF Ted Kapita (both of whom KU is recruiting) are not committed. Only 3 players in the 51-100 range are not committed.

However, 9 of the top 16, including 7 of the top 10 remain uncommitted. That means that some recruiting classes could get a whole lot better in a hurry. It also means that whoever doesn't find a recruit in this game is going to be left really scrambling because there just isn't anything close to comparable talent out there.

For example, if you are looking for a PF, there are 2 big time guys on the board in #5 Rabb and #7 Diallo. There's a solid option in #37 Kapita. Miss on those three and you have #93 Shawntrez Davis. And that's it. Four PF prospects in the top 100. Miss on those four and you're looking at juco transfers, degree completed guys and non top 100 guys. If you need a PF that can play major minutes in a major conference next year, you have 3 guys, maybe 4 with Davis, depending on how he transitions. Everything else is a crapshoot.

If you're looking for a PG, you are already out of luck. There's not a single top 100 PG left.

If you need a center, you have options, but again, it's all or nothing. You're either landing an OAD prospect (#6 Diamond Stone, #8 Caleb Swanigan or #10 Stephen Zimmerman), you are grabbing #16 Thomas Bryant, or you are hoping Thon Maker reclassifies because there isn't another ranked center out there.

It seems as though more and more of the middle tier players are signing quickly, knowing that once the big time recruits start committing, they may see their top choices disappear. Of the committed players in the top 100, 80 have already signed.

My quick and dirty roster math for some of the other top schools:

UNC - I have them having at least one scholarship, with the possibility of 2 if Marcus Paige jumps to the NBA. They have signed one, so they hope they are done. If Paige leaves, there's no more PG's out there. It would be an actual disaster for UNC if Paige left at this point.

Duke - They only have 12 players listed on their current roster, so they are already 1 under (Ojeleye transfer). There are two seniors on the roster, and Jahlil Okafor is as OAD as they get. They have signed Chase Jeter to replace Okafor and Luke Kennard at the 2 spot. They have two more scholarships and are in on Brandon Ingram. They aren't listed for anyone else on ESPN right now, but that could change because they have a late scholarship to offer.

Kentucky - The math is a little weird here. They have no seniors on scholarship by my count, but they will probably have some NBA attrition. I am counting Cauley-Stein, Towns and Lyles as departures. Dakari Johnson is a maybe, but I think he stays. There could be a surprise departure here. Kentucky has already landed Skal Labissiere (C), Isaiah Briscoe (PG) and Charles Matthews (SG). That takes care of their allotment, although there could be a transfer situation here as well. They are still in on Brown, Newman, Diallo, Rabb, Swanigan, Zimmerman, Ingram and Bryant. I bet they sign one more, but they don't have room beyond that because everyone else is back.

Arizona - The lone western power right now has 2 seniors on scholarship. I think Brandon Ashley goes pro, along with Stanley Johnson and Kaleb Tarczewski. They have inked SG Allonzo Trier, SF Ray Smith, PG Justin Simon and C Chance Comanche. That leaves them with one spot and they are in on Rabb, Swanigan and Zimmerman. My guess is they land one of that trio.

Michigan St. - Izzo has learned the hard way that he can't just assume he will match up with toughness, that he needs talent too. Two seniors are leaving, but they are adding Eron Harris (transfer from West Virginia). They have signed three guys already, so I think they are done because I don't see any NBA attrition here.

Ohio State - OSU has at least five scholarships going to seniors. They have signed four. They will almost certainly sign at least one more, possibly two.

UCLA - They have at least two spots available, but they have already signed two. They are considering just about everyone, so my gut tells me they will probably sign two more if they can.

Texas - They will have two scholarships available at a minimum, but they have already signed two. They are in on Diallo, though, so they are sniffing around as if they have one more scholarship to offer.

So if you are counting at home, the math (and who may fill it) is as follows:

UNC - 0

Duke - 2 (Ingram and a transfer)

Kentucky - 1 (Brown)

Arizona - 1 (Rabb)

Michigan St. - 0

Ohio St. - 1 (Bryant)

UCLA - 2 (Swanigan and a non top 100 player)

Texas - 1 (Diallo)

Kansas - 2 (Newman and Zimmerman)

Of course, this could all go very wrong for a variety of reasons, and this would in many ways be the dream scenario for KU to land Newman and Zimmerman to add to what we have already and what we will bring back. That's just a monster lineup anyway you slice it.

@justanotherfan

I don't think we have really been recruiting Kapita. I know his list shows us but there has been little word that we are actually after him. I have him pegged for Missouri if my money is on a program for him.

With Bigs I think we will get 1 more HS kid, Diallo would be the most ideal for his skills and that he's a few years away from being a serious NBA prospect. He wouldn't be a traditional 5 but his shot blocking is 2nd to none in the class regardless of height. We should look into the transfer pool for a big as well either to sit or play next year. We won't know the extent of the needs til the end of the season.

At Center we are either boom or bust, we get Maker or Zimmerman or neither this year. Both are OAD's so what are we missing by getting them for one year. Just another player to add to the list of posts leaving this program next year, its why I favor Diallo over anyone.

UNC has Joel Berry and Britt who are PG's. They are fine if Paige leaves.

Duke also has a C sitting this year who had a good year at Rice.

Zona- I don't see Zeus going pro as he's not really being thought of as a draft pick. Things could change but he looks likely to stick it out and get his degree. If he does go that could really hurt our chances with Zimmerman.

Michigan St in great shape for Swanigan

Ohio St- Newman could wind up there if Russell leaves

I think what we are seeing is result of the OAD fever that does not always pan out and turns into TAD and so on. In the past, by this time in the season most HS players were committed to a school, but now they have to wait and see who leaves and who stays and what the playing time situation will be...pretty hard for coaches to recruit with so much uncertainty and so many unknowns.

@justanotherfan You said that this class has kind of filled out strangely. I think this is how it has been filling out and will continue to fill out as long as the OAD opportunity exists. The top guys have no reason to sign early (unless they just want to get it over with). They want to see who on (Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc.) goes pro and who stays. There will always be a place for these guys. The next tier have a little more incentive to sign early....they don't want to get locked out of some of the places they want to go due to scholarship limitations.

@Hawk8086

What I meant by strange is that usually there are some midlevel guys that are still out there around this time. That's not the case this year. There are 5 guys outside the top 20 that are not signed right now. Most years, there have been at least 12-15 guys in that range that still hadn't made a commitment. I don't expect the top guys to sign early.

What has surprised me is that the middle guys have adapted and snapped up scholarships quickly so they aren't left standing when the music stops. And because almost everyone has signed an LOI, there won't be the opportunity for late shuffling. There is almost literally no one outside the top 20 that is still available. That's what's strange.

@justanotherfan
Coaching changes will more than likely change up some of those mid-level commitments.

One way or another... we will be signing a 5. There is no way Self will settle for another year without a shot blocker and more post presence on offense.

Everyone gets excited about Thon. He's one of those guys that won't really perform to his talents for another several years, when his body fills out and a smart coach realizes how to take advantage of his skills. I believe Self wants him because there is a good chance he becomes a "legacy recruit"... meaning.... if he becomes a star in the NBA, he'll always be a Jayhawk, and will offer plenty of goodwill to the program.

I love to watch Thon play, too... just not sure what he can do for us. I don't want to go through another year where we completely flip our offense around to accommodate one player (wigs). But who knows... maybe Thon eats a ton of hormone meat between now and D1.

The real catch for us is Zim... a guy who could do some real damage in a hi/lo. I would be hopeful we could have him for 2 years. In his second year, he could be Self's most prolific hi/lo post player in his years at Kansas. Easily.

Imagine Zim in the post his second year, and Frank our senior PG?! I'm sure we would fill in the blanks in between with great talent, but these two alone would give us an excellent chance at a NC!

@drgnslayr

Agreed, on Thon and I understand he wants to get to the NBA as quickly as he can but I think he should wait til 2016 to go to college. His body is definitely one that will be years away from being what he needs it to be to fully reach his potential. That is something Hudy could always help him with especially if he signed and got right in the summer. The other aspect we have to consider is I'm sure his brother will go wherever he does.

I would love Zim but with him being a OAD likely we are already losing so after next year in the frontcourt that I prefer players who will stay more than 1 year. The talent level for bigs in the 16 class is thin compared to this one.

@BeddieKU23

Yes.... I think part of the recruiting of Zim is to educate him on being a 2 yr college player. See if he gets it. His stock will be high after one year, but will skyrocket after 2 years. He seems to be a fast learner, and regardless who enters the draft his second year, it is hard to imagine him not being selected in the top 3.

@drgnslayr

The big advantage the squid had in recruiting was promising player to get them to the NBA in one year, something that all 18 year old believe they are fully capable of doing; however, the OAD at UK is starting to wane and many are staying 2 or more years. Recruits now have the option of going to UK for 2 or more years where they will have to platoon and/or maybe not get the promised playing time or go to a program, like KU, where they will also stay 2 or more years but they will improve their skill (and body) in the process.

@JayHawkFanToo

True.

I think the argument made now comparing Kentucky vs other blue blood programs is about development. I have to hand it to Cal... instead of polishing his reputation as a non-developer he pursued a different angle; to fill two squads with top tier talent and by having them practice together every day, the argument is that they will improve the most in this environment over another blue blood with a quality developmental coach.

The reality isn't as important as the perception.

But I do think Cal took a huge risk with the platoon system. I know I'd like to be a coach recruiting a top tier player with the argument that the player would see plenty of game minutes in my program versus a platoon system.

How many guys at Kentucky right now are showcasing their talents? Any of them? They all sort of get washed away in the over abundance of talent. I look at a player like Towns... he would be swiping plenty of headlines had he gone somewhere else... say... Kansas (for example). Instead, I read more about WCS.

@JayHawkFanToo

"I watched Jaleel White, aka Steve Urkel, in a celebrity basketball match and he was nothing like his TV persona, he was actually a pretty decent player. "

Ha.... all proving my point about the effectiveness of x-axis basketball.

I squinted my eyes and it looked like the Duke/Miami game... except this was only a one-point victory!

Anyone else see that? See what a couple of little fast guards did to Duke at home?!

I'd like to take that game footage into the video room at KU and spend a couple of hours with Frank and Devonte. This is how it is done!