🏀 KuBuckets Archive

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2015/08/19/college-football-1-128-re-ranking-ohio-state-alabama-auburn-baylor-boise-state/31820541/ ↗

124th out of 128 D1 teams. Lowest ranked major conference team. Maybe we should give ourselves the death penalty. I'm sorry to rehash an old, old topic, like from when I attended KU in 1985-88, but this is embarrassing. Mangino relieved us out of our misery for a few years and we're grateful for that, but he was losing a lot by the time he was booted out too, so I'm not sure if he had what it took either.

I applaud you all who watch/defend our football team, but as for me, I just barely pay attention. Until Late Night.

All I want to know - is Georgia State, UNLV, Idaho and Charlotte on our schedule ?

KU lacks D1 level athleticism at too many positions right now. Weis was terrible for recruiting. Beaty needs at least three years just to re-stock the program with some talent. If KU doesn't give Beaty at least five years, they will never be able to get out of this cycle.

There just isn't enough on field talent to be competitive right now. Too many holes to patch.

I think KU could be a decent team. Not championship caliber every year, but solid, qualifying for mid level bowls, etc.

@wissoxfan83 mangino's last year losses should be blamed on Perkins. The firing was hanging over his head all season. Beaty and Bowen are working hard and I think, can build our program. It will take time! I'm going to a few games and will watch the rest on tv. If I lived in Lawrence i would go to more. The last few years have put some pretty fine young men in the nfl, even though it's not the chiefs! Jk

I proudly watch every game because I am ignorant enough to think we have a chance. But then promptly turn it off at halftime when it's 28-0 and we have gotten only one first down.

@JhawkAlum ignorant might be a poor choice of words. I follow KU fb, first I love fb, second they work hard. My youngest son played on a fb team that sucked!! I know what that feels like.

@Crimsonorblue22 Let's hope you're right!

@Crimsonorblue22 Mine as well. He attended a small christian school that started their fb program when he was in 8th grade. They basically played any jv teams until his jr year when they finally went full varsity and entered into conference play. Even then they suited up anybody from 7th on up primarily for the appearance. At 6-3 and 280 he played both ways like many others with his only break being kick-offs. Doing that down here in Louisiana you can bet his butt was dragging at the final whistle. Weren't many wins those 2 years.

@wissoxfan83 patience!

What people are overlooking appears to be this:

IF IT WERE GETTING HARDER FOR SELF TO RUN THE HYPOTHESIZED SHOE BLOCKADE IN BASKETBALL, THEN ANY KU FOOTBALL COACH MIGHT BE SUNK ALMOST BEFORE HE STARTS!!!!!!!

Adidas APPEARS at least able to let Self channel one or two player leans from its conveyor and Self can apparently glue the rest and win 25-27, because it's a game of only 7-8 man rotations.

But football requires waaaaay more bodies.

Could Adidas even round up 44 top players (two strings both ways) from its football conveyor for even one football program in the country?

I am asking cuz I don't follow football closely.

Unless Adidas has a much bigger stable of football leans than basketball leans, KU SIGNING with Adidas was might have been a kiss of death for KU football hopes.

Does any one that follows football know if Adidas has a larger share of the football player leans than it reputedly does in basketball?

Beatty might be able to overcome the shoe brand with A&M pipeline diversions for one or two seasons, but after that it might be curtains unless the apparent embargo breaks, if such an embargo really were to exist.

Louisville. Michigan (for another yr or two), UCLA, Nebraska, Texas A&M, Wisconsin.

Not sure the shoe co.s have a lot of say in the football world. The AAU money laundering train for football is 7on7 which isn't as big, yet.... The reason I don't think the shoe co.s have as much swing on the gridiron is Phil's home school has never been ranked in ESPNs top 10 since The Network started its Top300 10 yrs ago. I'd think BigPhil would be able to sign his Waterfowls a top 10 class if NFL endorsement deals were worth it.

The problem I see is what big item do the basketball players have that the football guys don't?? The shoes! It's all about the sneakers and sneakers with spikes aren't everyday wear. Plus most of us can't and or don't play pick up football but we can and do for bball.

I still believe they can win some games and surprise some people. And I still believe they can build the program back to a national contender. We won the Orange Bowl (it wasn't a dream, really, we did!) and were a top 5 team just 7 years ago.

I will believe this because I am a KU fan for life... and because it is mid-August.

Please don't remind me of this post in October.

@bskeet we may be the only 2 watching!.

@Kip_McSmithers

Great take. I forgot about the cleats to streets disconnect. I forgot there's no real summer game in football.

Has anyone put some time into figuring out the drivers and real politik of football recruiting the way basketball has finally been x-rayed and partially exposed?

It took me a while to sort the basketball stuff to get the angle there. I had to go back and read the exposes of 15 to 30 years ago to get the scent and follow it forward. I love hoops in a way I don't football. No way am I putting in the time on football to do the same thing.

What makes me guess there must be a deep structure to football recruiting is the Texas Longhorns' sudden decline. That sort of fall doesn't just happen.

Similarly, but on the obverse, KU's sudden precipitous spike under Mangino and catastrophic crash does not just happen.

There seems to be more to this than just coaches changing.

Who knows the real skinny on "FOOTBALL CONFIDENTIAL"?

@Crimsonorblue22 Make that three.

But I usually listen rather than watch. There aren't a lot of stations carrying the FB Jayhawks around here. Besides, the pain isn't quite as intense when I'm listening as it is when I'm watching.

@jaybate-1.0 UT's decline is a very simple. The QB position. After Colt McCoy, all of UT's QB's have been underachievers and that's why they've been down recently. It's the same story at LSU and USC as well.

Let's take KU as well in regards to the difference a QB can make. In 2006, KU was 6-6 with 4 very close losses. QB was the only major change in 2007 and KU goes 12-1. Same thing was responsible for KU's decline. There wasn't a competent QB on the roster to replace Todd Reesing.

KU's fortunes could change very quickly and much sooner than hoped for under Beaty if Ryan Willis or Carter Stanley prove to be much better than anticipated. There is no other sport where a single player/position can determine the successes and failures of a team like the QB position in football.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Just a quarterback explains the decline and fall of a perennial power?

That's awesome.

That means that all KU needs is a quarterback to be what Texas has been for so many decades?

Doesn't need great coaches.

Doesn't need an alumni base capable of contributing nearly unlimited bones.

Doesn't need a big fan base from one of the most populous states.

Doesn't need control of its media-gaming complex with its own media contracts.

KU can be Texas with just a quarterback?

Texas can be Texas with just a quarterback?

Its that easy?

Well, hell's fire, why don't the Texas alumni just informally promise the next great quarterback prospect $1 Billion dollars in small bills in a safe deposit box in the Caymans and give him a key and tell him to open the box immediately after he turns pro? Surely, Texans, who like everything big, would be happy to spring for a billion bone quarterback to make them a perennial power again, right?

Life is soooooooo simple when you see it clearly.

I have to say: I was blinded by complexity.

I missed this simple quarterback explanation.

Rock Chalk!

@jaybate-1.0 I wouldn't say just a QB, but a QB has by far the biggest impact on a programs fortunes. I will 100% stand by my comment that no other position in team sports has a bigger impact of the success and failures of a program than QB and there's all kinds of examples of this in the college game and NFL.

An example at KU is the 2006 and 2007 seasons. KU went 6-6 in 2006, changed QB's and went 12-1 in 2007 and I don't think there's any coincidence that the best 2 year stretch in KU history also coincides with the best QB in program history.

And back to the Texas situation you initially questioned in regards to Colt McCoy. UT went 12-1 and 13-1 in McCoy's final two seasons and could've won a national title had he not got injured against Alabama in that title game. The next QB at Texas (Garrett Gilbert) wasn't nearly as good and with basically the same caliber of supporting cast McCoy had, UT went 5-7 and missed a bowl game for the first time in a long time.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Ok.

I actually find myself wondering if we'd been better off keeping Gill and not going with weis. I would've made him get a new DC and conditioning coach after year 2 but look at the decent guys we had last year heeney, Shepard, Pierson, love, MacDonald, and other starters were gill guys. MMs last year was a mess I think they go 8-4 without the witch hunt lost to ksu mu and cu bye a total of 13 points close games can come down to lost focus in this case two meetings a week with sweet lou. I do like this staff and you never know look at TCU a terrible offensive to one of the best lets all go support these guys.

Gill had to go. He lost control of the team. Weis was a pile of crap, but he gave us Beaty. Wish the A.D. Mr. KSU would've signed Gus Malzahn insead of Wies, but go Beaty!!!

@dylans said:

Wish the A.D. Mr. KSU would’ve signed Gus Malzahn insead of Wies, but go Beaty!!!

He would already be gone gone from KU. Weis was a mistake, but Malzahn would've been here 2 years max before taking an SEC job and KU still would've needed a new coach for last season.

@Texas-Hawk-10 True, but maybe the roster would have more than 5 D1 calibre players. At least a full allotment of scholarship players would be nice.

@Texas Hawk 10: Yes, Malzahn would already have left, but the difference would have been that in that one year, some improvements could have been implemented; One of Malzahn's coordinators could have been offered the job, and KU might already be into the third year of a successful rebuild. At this point, we have to hope that Beaty has what it takes. If the players, however few, are disciplined and coached in the fundamentals, we will see the beginnings of optimism. Mangino's first year was terrible, but the second year was 6-6 and a loss in their bowl game. Nevertheless, the "sawing wood" approach to the fundamentals gave fans a reason to come out to the games. Here's hoping Beaty can start there. I don't know that I will worry so much about SZ. If Beaty is successful, Zenger may get credit for the hire, but I think he was really only a figurehead in the hire. Donor alums weren't going to allow him to Weis it up again.

@dylans

"Gill had to go. He lost control of the team."

Weis had to go. He lost control of the team.

@wissoxfan83 Im with you dude. Football is just a distraction for me until the first KU tip off.

@Lulufulu I actually really love football, but talk about a lesson in humility....

KU hoops will always be my first love, but I would so love for someone to turn this team around and make KU football respectable.

A positive outlook. http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2015/9/4/9260985/predicting-kansas-footballs-2015-record ↗

@Kcmatt7 Wow, that is a positive outlook!

@nuleafjhawk you watching? I'm 👀 for positives. I'll still watch every game👀🙏

@wissoxfan83 Aaaaand the KU football season is over.

@Lulufulu I just turned it off. Big comeback, then pffffftt.

@wissoxfan83 Yeah, I saw that on the espn feed. KU down by 3 with 2 min left. Almost but not quite. Oh well, late nights in what, 5 weeks?

Would have been fun to see them at least get the kick attempt off at the end. Heartbreaker. It'll be a while before I get over it.

OK, I'm over it.

I just read we fumbled a spike attempt? You can't make this stuff up.

@Crimsonorblue22 I did watch.

But let me tell you this - last Saturday we were at the lake and were catching a lot of nice fish. Among them was about a 5 lb catfish that my son caught. I happened to be nearest the fish when he got it to the boat and I grabbed it and brought it on board. At one point the fish squirmed rather vigorously and shook the hook. Right into my thumb. DEEP. After fifteen minutes of (literal) blood, sweat and .....real close to tears, we got the hook cut out with surprisingly minimal damage.

Last Saturday was much more enjoyable than this Saturday for me.

@wissoxfan83 Cozart tried spiking the ball before it ever got to his hands and he was on his knees when he recovered the fumble so the clock ran out.

Cozart also had two other mistakes that were at least a 17 point swing and probably a 21 point swing. On KU's first possession, KU ran a bubble screen in the red zone and Cozart telegraphed it to a waiting DB who almost took it to the house. At least a 10 point swing and probably a 14 point swing there. Then, in the second quarter when it was 24-7, Cozart took off on a scramble and like a lot of QB's, he didn't tuck the ball when he was about to get hit and the ball got popped out and 2 plays later, it was 31-7.

While there's definitely others that share in the blame (defense), those 3 plays by Cozart had the most direct impact on the outcome of the game in my eyes.

@nuleafjhawk ewwwww! Sorry! See any positives?

You guys wanna see something funny?

🐦 View Tweet

@MoonwalkMafia funny? Can't imagine a paid employee would get away w/this. Anxious to hear what big 12 says!

@Crimsonorblue22 Ya know, I couldn't help but think the same thing. It's incredible to me that people in administrative positions at K-State can give stuff like this a thumbs up without thinking about what common perception will be.

And this is after KSU students had to sign a sportsmanship pledge before getting their student tickets. No profane chants. I guess the Octagon of dumb will be silent this year. What a bunch of bozos.

@Crimsonorblue22 Oh yes! Lots of positives - we have a freezer full of fish!!

@Crimsonorblue22 OK, smart aleckness aside, No. I did not see any positives. Unless you're in a track meet, you should never get beaten by a team called the JACKRABBITS.

If we had played an FBS school and had the same exact outcome, I would have said "Yes, I do see some positives". If you look at the stats, I think a lot of people would have said that KU won that game. But, in almost any game, anywhere, whoever has the least turnovers and fewest penalties wins.

@nuleafjhawk oh smart one!!

What boggles my mind is how could a program be ruined in such a short duration?
It's as if it was intentionally sabotaged.

@Khubar_Jayhawk I wouldn't call it intentional. Part of it was the fact that they brought in coaches with completely different philosophies each time. We went from a balanced spread attack (Mangino) to ground and pound (Gill) to a pro style (Charlie) and now back to an Air Raid/spread. So, each coach has now had the wrong personnel for their system.

Gill made it a point to bring in RBs. and pound it. But, he didn't utilize the current strengths on the roster. We had smaller linemen that could move. And we tried to make them be big maulers. It doesn't work.

Then Charlie took over the team. We he was stuck with these half-assed recruiting classes focused on ground and pound. What do you do with that when you run a pro style offense? He tried the easy fix and went the JUCO route. That was his biggest mistake. He was just arrogant enough to think he could actually turn the program around by getting D1 leftovers, idiots and screwups. Let's be honest, if you are going D1 out of JUCO, something is wrong with you. Either you are lacking intellect, not good enough to actually be D1, or you are of questionable character. A few of those players can be ok on a team. But, 20-30 of them is a cancer.

And finally we are now at a gunslinging air raid offense. But, this time we barely have enough scholarship players to scrimmage. Beatty has no chance in his first 4 years to put a decent product on the field. He needs time and patience from us to actually get a decent product on the field. Once he gets the personnel he needs, this team will begin turning around.

I did see some positives on Saturday! We scored 38 points. Even with terrible penalties and turnovers. That is positive. We have a QB that is playing that is not at all made for this offense. Air raid is meant to have the ball out within 1.5-2 seconds. This essentially is your run game. Then, there is a second part of the air raid. It consists of double moves and confusing route combinations for deep plays for big yardage. But, this takes a smart QB with some arm talent because the offense rides on him almost entirely. Cozart is clearly not the guy for this system. But, when we get a QB who is, look out!

Also, I saw positives on D. While we sucked it up in the first quarter, Our offense didn't help. The D was on the field the entire quarter. That means no time for adjustments. No break. No stopping the onslaught that was happening. After we got to adjust at the end of the quarter we shut them down for a good while. That showed the ability to make adjustments mid-game which is positive when we look at the coaches. We have a good staff. We just need to give them some time!

@Kcmatt7

I agree that we have switched styles too much, but if you look back at Gill, his first recruiting class was heavy on three things - athletic defensive players, RBs and huge OLs. Gill signed several big offensive linemen in his first full class. He was going out and getting what he needed to run the style he wanted. But by firing him after his second season we were halfway through turning over the roster.

Once Weis ran off a bunch of Gill recruits and went Juco and couldn't keep guys, you end up here - 60 scholarship players.

Gill was trying to build something long term. He recruited almost all HS players. Weis was going for the quick fix to set up a jump back to the NFL. He went almost exclusively juco. We would have been better off to just keep Gill for a couple more years than to have hired Weis.

I just hope that with Beaty there is more patience. The only way to succeed is to recruit HS talent and build up the program from within. There were people that were calling for Gill's head after his first loss to an FCS team. Gill doubled down on that by taking the redshirt off James Sims, when Sims should have been held off until the next season when the team was stronger overall.

But by rushing to improve, KU wasted a lot of the freshman talent that was brought in, and then when the change occurred, there was no foundation. Hope they give Beaty time. He needs three full recruiting classes just to get numbers back where they should be.

@justanotherfan what about gills reputation for lacking discipline? I'm talking in the classrom(maybe not being in the classroom)

@Crimsonorblue22

Tough to say. He was at KU so briefly, and spent much of that time with speculation that he would be fired. Even if he was strong with discipline, it's hard to imagine how he would have been effective since there were prominent alums lining up to buy out his contract half way through his first season.

Maybe he was too soft and would not have worked out regardless. But the speculation that he would be fired undercuts any potential for him to be effective as an enforcer. I'm not saying Gill did a good job at all. Just that keeping him probably would have been better than bringing in Weis for two years because we at least would have a full team of scholarship players. Beaty takes over a program in much worse shape than the one that Gill left.

@justanotherfan agree! I felt Mangino coached his last season "under the gun" too.

@justanotherfan Yea exactly what I was saying.

We could quite literally have the worst job in college football. The only way to get out of it is to simply be patient.

The athletics department needs to remember something though. A program is like growing a plant. Sometimes you get enough rain every few years and it'll grow a few flowers. But the only way to ensure a healthy plant is to make sure it is watered every single day. And our football program hasn't gotten anything new in 7 years (Anderson complex). In order to compete in recruiting we need to have SOMETHING to sell besides playing time. Nothing about the Anderson Complex except the weight room screams luxury. The dorms are just meh. And the dorms are literally on the other side of campus. Something needs to be done to help out our coaches.

@justanotherfan said:

I'm not saying Gill did a good job at all. Just that keeping him probably would have been better than bringing in Weis for two years because we at least would have a full team of scholarship players. Beaty takes over a program in much worse shape than the one that Gill left.

This is has pretty much been my thinking on Gill over Weis. Gill at least made it a point to recruit HS kids instead of going for the quick fix so KU wouldn't be a full recruiting class behind needing 3 years to catch up on roster numbers. The W-L for KU is probably comparable, but who knows what would've happened with Seth Russell running the show for KU.

@Kcmatt7 The money has come first and even then it won't be an overnight process. Baylor, Oklahoma St., and Oregon all started pouring money into their football programs before there was significant improvements on the field. Zenger has a background in fundraising and he needs to get the high dollar donors to start investing in football ahead of any significant on field progress. Tell them their name (or company name) will be on the field opposite the Big 12 logos in exchange for funding the renovations to the stadium.

@Texas-Hawk-10

I have said for years and will continue to say, the road to KU football success has three major keys.

1. Own the Kansas City recruiting circuit. KU must dominate this area. It is the only recruiting area where KU can even imagine an advantage due to proximity, so KU must dominate this area, from Blue Springs on the east to Basehor on the west, from Liberty up north to Gardner on the south. There is enough talent that comes from KC each year to grab a handful of recruits. Not a full class, but a solid group.

2. Re-start the Arrowhead game with Missouri to produce a national profile. KU football needs to be on national tv, in a marquee game every year. That can be the Mizzou game. The silly "they destroyed the history" crap needs to end and this needs to get done. Also, that game is probably worth $1m each year.

3. Find an identity and stick with it. I don't know what Beaty's long term plan is yet, but whatever it is, he deserves five years to see it through. KU hasn't stuck with a plan long enough for anything to work in the last half decade, and that leaves us here, with 60 scholarship players and one of the worst 10 programs in D1.

If KU does those things, they can become a solid 8 win team year in and year out, with a chance to win 10 or 11 games sometimes.

@Texas-Hawk-10 after SZ hired Weis don't you think donors are leary of giving money while he's here?

@Crimsonorblue22 Donors are allowed to say what the money is to be used for and if the donations aren't used in the way they're earmarked for, donors can get their money back.

So you could donate $10 to the KUAD and earmark it for stadium renovations and they have to tell you what part of stadium renovations that money is used for or you can demand your money back.

@Texas-Hawk-10 not exactly what I meant. After SZ's bad, bad hire of Weis, I heard donors weren't eager to be donating at all. I also heard that alumni had a huge say in Beaty's hiring. They weren't letting SZ repeat!

KSU fans would walk in dog shyte, track it into your living room, and think it was funny. If you complain, they would say, "Your football team is terrible. Get over it!" Actually, here, they tracked the shyte onto their own carpet. They just don't realize that fact.

@EdwordL I love it!

Anyone else see no. 6 Auburn's close call with FCS Jacksonville State? Seeing that actually made me feel a little bit better about our close loss to SDSU.