🏀 KuBuckets Archive

So KU won now we have bragging rights? Right? @HighEliteMajor would say so. Yet when the Monday edition of the KC star comes out tomorrow what will it say? Will it say MU so close? Will it say MU to young right now? Will it say MU had KU just ran out of gas? Will it say MU has proven it can be special this year?

So what did KU gain? I mean they won. Will the KC star say KU wins again? Will they say KU just to good? Will they say KU continues its dominance of MU?

What would've happened if KU had lost this game? Well I know I would feel sorry for KU fans living in the the KC area. Because even if KU went on to win the Big 12 again? It would have been yea but you couldn't beat MU. So MU is the champion of the Big 12.

So @HighEliteMajor what does KU gain from playing and winning this game? What relief? Is the talking heads of the KC media going to be like well KU beat MU so now we know they are legit? Are they going to say well KU outlasted MU so we know their on their way to being a great team?

No starting tomorrow we KU fans are going to hear about how much potential MU has. How close they are. How this could be a special season for MU basketball.

So I ask again @HighEliteMajor what did KU gain? To answer your question? KU fans out gave the MU fans for the hurricane relief. Nothing more and nothing less. Come tomorrow all the talk is going to be about MU basketball.

KU basketball gained nothing by playing this game other than showing they are a charitable fan base.

Was it worth it?

Yes it was worth it. What a terrible question. Exciting event, both teams played hard.

@BShark

Hey you have to believe what you must. I disagree.

@BShark

By the way it is a great question.

I think you are reading into it too much. Who cares what the Star writes?

Interested in @HighEliteMajor's reply.

I think playing a talented team in real game pressure will only help for an important early season game like against UK. I mean, their exhibition game is against Morehead State. You don't learn anything from a game like that. Missouri, on the other hand, has some serious talent, length, height and shooters. It also showed that Dok, Billy and Malik can make plays in a high pressure game like this (because honestly, all the pressure was really on KU not to lose).

I don't know why anyone would say this was a bad idea. I saw a lot of good things today.

HawkChamp said:

I think playing a talented team in real game pressure will only help for an important early season game like against UK. I mean, their exhibition game is against Morehead State. You don't learn anything from a game like that. Missouri, on the other hand, has some serious talent, length, height and shooters. It also showed that Dok, Billy and Malik can make plays in a high pressure game like this (because honestly, all the pressure was really on KU not to lose).

I don't know why anyone would say this was a bad idea. I saw a lot of good things today.

Well said.

This was basically a real game. 7 fouls obviously changed things, but the intensity was there.

@HawkChamp

You make the right point. All the pressure was on KU. Should an exhibition game have that much merit. I know your giddy but what if KU lost? It's easy to pound the chest when our Jayhawks win?

Yet MU came out with nothing to lose and KU came out with everything to lose. Glad to see our Jayhawks responded.

yet is it worth it?

"Was it worth it?"

I'll tell you after the Kentucky game.

Even if KU lost they would have learned some things. It helps to play another good team and I think this is much better than any other exhibition except MAYBE Wichita State. Whomping DII teams is meh and scrimmaging against a random other D1 team the intensity won't be there.

@drgnslayr I think our guys will be more prepared than they will be.

@BShark

I get it your a fiery person. Yet should exhibition games be this tough? Isn't the noncon Schedule used for toughness building?

Aren't exhibition games used for tune ups? '

MU had nothing to lose? KU had everything to lose?

I'm also afraid that even though KU are the victors. Come tomorrow you and I are gong to hear nothing but how special MU basketball can be this year.

@DoubleDD I think it seems like you care too much about local radio chucklehead talking points. I only care how much it helps KU as a team. Everything to lose? It's a basketball game.

Bill Self on the Border War: "We're going to do what's best for us. We're not interested in doing what's best for Missouri."

Better question is: would you have preferred to play more head state and win by 30 and not get the experience of playing a good team?

Bill Self on the game: "I thought it was certainly more intense than a lot of games we'll play prior to (Big 12 play)."

@BShark

I'm not that shallow of a person. Yet I do know that as a fan you love the experience. You love reading articles and watching stuff on your team. Am I wrong? Perception is Everything. Sadly MU painted a picture with a little more seasoning they are to beloved.

So even though KU played the game and won they gained nothing. Well except that our fans are very charitable fans. However I'm not ESPN and the talking heads will remember that.

Self says he and Martin agreed not to play any zone defense, just man defense every series. Says he didn't go in with much strategy

@HawkChamp

In an exhibition game? I would rather play a team that I know KU can beat. Not play somebody that has the talent and nothing to lose, yet everything to gain.

I get it. It was a major fund raiser type event. I think the last totals were over a couple million. Good stuff.

Yet who really benefited from this game KU or MU?

@BShark

Let's not forget the 7 fouls? LOL

We gained tremendously. This was 'Tucky prep. Tucky prep is very important. They will be our highest rated opponent- it is essential we win that game. We played someone that challenged us. Absolutely, we have way more to lose- which is why it was important we answered the challenge. Anytime you take on an inferior opponent, the pressure is always on the favorite. You view challenging the team as a bad thing - I look at it as a positive thing.

@KUSTEVE

Seriously who did you walk away with more impressed with?

Remember MU is young and very talented. KU is pretty much set.

Should KU play this type of exhibition type of game? Especially against a team that has the talent to beat and nothing to lose?

Who has more to gain? MU or KU? MU is young and talented so they get the benefit of the doubt. KU is kind of set.

Do feel comfortable playing this MU team in the tournament?

DoubleDD said:

@HawkChamp

In an exhibition game? I would rather play a team that I know KU can beat. Not play somebody that has the talent and nothing to lose, yet everything to gain.

I get it. It was a major fund raiser type event. I think the last totals were over a couple million. Good stuff.

Yet who really benefited from this game KU or MU?

Actually honestly this game is going to benefit KU alot. - - I think it fares better for them, the team gets more out of a game where they are really challenged then playing the Emporia States - -Washburn - -where it's nothing more then a glorified scrimmage. - -Tests the players right out the chute.

Like Coach said in his post game - -he will be able to go back and show the team a lot of game film and things they have to work on. - -It will help us be better prepared for games against teams like Kentucky and such. - -Missou is going to be ALL RIGHT. - -I just think overall this helps much more then playing against like the one's we got coming up in your other two exhibitions. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54

I hope your right. Because I'm telling you. The KU fans that live in the KC area you about to get a big dose of MU basketball.

@DoubleDD It was an exhibition - - it made for a lot better contest - game condition experience - - overall these types of exhibitions are better makes teams more battle tested, gives more opportunity to really see where you have work to do. - - You really don't gain much against these other exhibitions. - -Let me in turn ask you , would you rather Billy, and Marcus get game time experience against the likes of the players of Mizzou - -or Washburn - who you think will benefit them the most? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

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@jayballer54

In non-con games no. They should be tune up games. Think KU just beat a very young an talented MU team and it counts for nothing.

Now KU fans are going to hear how great the MU team can be. You're not going to hear much about KU and their win.

I just don't see how KU gained anything from this, other than showing that KU fans are some of the must giving fans of any.

Maybe that is what I should focus on?

@DoubleDD You keep talking about relief and what teams have to lose. Sounds like KU hoops games might be a difficult experience for you. Hopefully not!

@BShark

I'm sorry I didn't quite understand your post. I'm I bit slow. I'll need layman terms. No serious I'm not sure what your point is?

DoubleDD said:

@jayballer54

I hope your right. Because I'm telling you. The KU fans that live in the KC area you about to get a big dose of MU basketball.

The question that needs to be asked is - -who benefits more out of this - -The KU players OR the KU fans ? - -Which is more important? - -
Ask those same fans which they would rather watch - -KU & Mizzery? - -OR KU & MU?. - - - why even worry about what the Mizzou people say - who cares? - -The way to shut that shit up quick - - What's the Scoreboard say - -nuff said right? - -whether we beat their ass by 25 - -OR 5 -bottom line KU won - - bottom line was way more beneficial, stiffer competition. - -What do we gain other then helping the in state schools financially by playing them - -how does playing them benefit us other then maybe making us feel full of ourselves - -give us maybe OVER confidence in ourselves - -we gain really nothing from playing teams such as Washburn - -Emporia State and such - -this is much better. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54

That is strong medicine. Good stuff. You make a good point.

Yet can you see where I'm coming from? Why give MU the love?

@DoubleDD like others have said, this game is perfect prep for Kentucky. Missouri personnel wise is very similar to them. We would not have had this prep under normal conditions so I will take it every time. Will it pay off? We'll find out on the 14th.

@DoubleDD I see your point I just disagree with it.

@HawkChamp

Hey I've respected you in the past and I respect you now. So I hope right.

Can I ask you a question though. Are you ok with KU playing such a tough exhibition game. I mean if KU loses its bad. Right? I don't know just trying to make a good conversation.

I like what your saying though.

HawkChamp said:

@DoubleDD like others have said, this game is perfect prep for Kentucky. Missouri personnel wise is very similar to them. We would not have had this prep under normal conditions so I will take it every time. Will it pay off? We'll find out on the 14th.

I think regardless of what happens in the UK game, this was good. Good practice with the length and size Missouri has in a real game atmosphere. Self will have ammo on tape with that poor first half effort to show what happens when you do that vs a real team. Can play the same way against Fort Hays or whoever and still be well up. Being behind helps the message sink in better.

DoubleDD said:

@jayballer54

In non-con games no. They should be tune up games. Think KU just beat a very young an talented MU team and it counts for nothing.

Now KU fans are going to hear how great the MU team can be. You're not going to hear much about KU and their win.

I just don't see how KU gained anything from this, other than showing that KU fans are some of the must giving fans of any.

Maybe that is what I should focus on?

But it DOES count for something. - -Again it gives our young players experience against a group of talented guys - -there is no negative for playing this against what yes true is going to be a good team. - - Games like this is so valuable - -putting to much in what the fans are going to hear - -who cares? - -I don't - -they lost period. -KU wins so much you never really do hear a lot when we win until NCAA time or possibly against other blue bloods , when your on top of the pile that the way it is - -it's kind of a given for us to win.

Kind of falls in line with if and when someone does beat KU they always storm the floor. at the end because it just doesn't happen that often - -so in those games they storm, they talk and talk about it. - -How many times do you see KU fans storm the floor even after beating other blue bloods very close to zilch - - because we expect to win it is a normal given - -same thing when we when you just don't hear it talked up nearly as much but other teams for sure do - -let them who cares - -if this benefits our players - I don't give a rats ass about what Mizzery people say - -let them talk. again look at the scoreboard - -end of story. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@DoubleDD it would have sucked in the worst of ways if we lost. But there is risk in everything. This was a risk I was willing to take because of the potential pay off due to the fact that Kentucky is the only real opponent in our non con. It's almost a must win for the resume. If we lose on the 14th, I won't feel any different because it is ALWAYS a good thing to play a top twenty five team, which I believe MU is.

HawkChamp said:

@DoubleDD it would have sucked in the worst of ways if we lost. But there is risk in everything. This was a risk I was willing to take because of the potential pay off due to the fact that Kentucky is the only real opponent in our non con. It's almost a must win for the resume. If we lose on the 14th, I won't feel any different because it is ALWAYS a good thing to play a top twenty five team, which I believe MU is.

No doubt Missouri has top 25 talent.

Tilmon, MPJ, Robertson, Barnett is a really good top 4.

The younger Porter needs to know he isn't his bro though, he took too many threes.

I know I said this before but it's so nice to have an inside game this year. Billy and Dok can both make back to the basket moves. Love Billys turn around/fade away. What we sorely missed last year.

Thanks for the focus KU brethren. I guess my beef is this was a game played that should count for something for KU. I get the experience. You butt heads won me over on that one. Yet if KU is going to play this game it should count? I don't know boys and girl I'm not sure this type of game should be an exitbion type game.? I'm not for playing MU but if we are then let's make it count for something..

As I still think MU gained everything from this game and KU nothing. Maybe I'm wrong? Hey it happens.

@HawkChamp Looks like Billy might be a bit more willing and able to play inside than Bragg...

@BShark definitely looks like more a banger and a bit tougher mentally. I like it a lot

Does KU raise nearly 2 million if it isn't Missouri? I'm not so sure.

@BShark

Last I heard KU fans were kicking the crap out of MU fans in charitable donations.

Last time I checked.

HawkChamp said:

@BShark definitely looks like more a banger and a bit tougher mentally. I like it a lot

Me too. He has a lot of skill. Could be one of the best post players Self has had. A shame he isn't a multiyear guy. Could only imagine him in his JR year like Marcus... Not sure he played enough today but he had a bad effort moment so Self yanked him, and he did have 5 fouls.

DoubleDD said:

@BShark

Last I heard KU fans were kicking the crap out of MU fans in charitable donations.

Last time I checked.

Wasn't close! But is the arena full for another team is up for debate. It was full and rocking for this game.

DoubleDD said:

@KUSTEVE

Seriously who did you walk away with more impressed with?

Remember MU is young and very talented. KU is pretty much set.

Should KU play this type of exhibition type of game? Especially against a team that has the talent to beat and nothing to lose?

Who has more to gain? MU or KU? MU is young and talented so they get the benefit of the doubt. KU is kind of set.

Do feel comfortable playing this MU team in the tournament?

More "impressed" with? uhhh.....KU.

I already covered that in my last post. Yes, we should play this type of exhibition.

Who has more to gain? I covered that in my last post, too.

Yes, I feel comfortable playing Misery in the tournament. Hell yes.

Never be afraid of Missouri!

HawkChamp

That's the hope... especially after today.

Bill is going to chew some serious arse over poor rebounding. Also... mediocre defense.

This can be expected before the season, but it helps to have something like this to create the opportunity for Bill to do some heavy correctional coaching.

So you cats are ok with playing a pontetial top 25 team in the exhibition season? Not only that but against MU? Who has everything to gain and nothing to lose? You want this every season? You want KU to stop playing pushovers and play nothing but top 25 teams every game?

Please help me understand?

@DoubleDD I'm sure you didn't mean it this way but saying KU is set and can't improve could easily be perceived as a knock on Self's coaching. I think Doke and Billy in particular have much to learn.

@BShark

When I said set? Meaning who's has a higher ceiling to get better?

I don't know I let you answer it.

BShark said:

Never be afraid of Missouri!

Your right - -and even more -- never be afraid off anyone actually, if your afraid before you step on the floor or better use of words feeling intimidated - -then you've lost half the battle before the tip off. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@DoubleDD I believe we gained something...........playing a competitive game this early is better for our team than not playing the game.
However, I would agree (if that is what you are saying) that Mizzou, as a young team, gained more.
So what if it helped them more than us?
Also, let's not forget the good cause....

DoubleDD said:

So you cats are ok with playing a pontetial top 25 team in the exhibition season? Not only that but against MU? Who has everything to gain and nothing to lose? You want this every season? You want KU to stop playing pushovers and play nothing but top 25 teams every game?

Please help me understand?

Damn I don't feel like a puddy cat lol - -I'm just messin with you man lol. - -The stronger the competition the more it benefits, if it's in the exhibition so be it. - Helps prep for the regular , exhibition doesn't go against your record - -so you really llose nothing as far as that goes.

Again what would draw more interest EVERY YEAR in exhibition this type of game - -OR Washburn - - Pittsburg St - -Emporia St - -what draws more hype? - - -Missouri - -OR Washburn? -- -Does it have to be a top 25 team every year? - - No - - - But a good solid program even on the fringe just so much more benefit. - -As far as it being MU - -I think you might be putting just a little too much - -reading a little too much so what if it's Missouri? - - Plus for this - -a benefit for hurricane victims - -can't go wrong. - - Hell play like an NC St - -or an Boston College or just any other bigger school - -Play a Colorado of if there is a top 25 that wants to play and it works in exhibition I think the fan interest is better tams where at least more of a challenge and helps development playing against beter competition.

There is a reason the players from Washburn - -Pitt St - - Emporia St are at those schools, it's because they are not as gifted - -not a knock against them but just it is what it is - -you wanna get better - you play against better. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54

So you want KU to play top 25 teams in exhibition games?

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DoubleDD said:

So you want KU to play top 25 teams in exhibition games?

This was not a regular exhibition game because those have to be against non-Div 1 schools. But if they set up routine charity exhibitions, playing top 25 would be great for KU every season.

@mayjay

I hear what you are saying but there are two problems.

First, the NCAA granted this one time waiver and it is unlikely that will do it on an-going basis, even for charity, as it would give the team and extra game and an unfair advantage. I really don't believe you can make it an ongoing yearly charity exhibition game. If the series resumes it will have to be as a regular season game.

Second, you assume MU is a top 25 team which at this time is by no means a certain thing; MU will ride the Porters and other quality recruits for all they are worth and in 3 years Martin moves on and MU goes back to being a dumpster fire.

Just my opinion on the subject and I don't claim to be right.

@jayballer54 @mayjay

KU playing Washborn, emporia st, and Pitt st are major pay days for these local schools. Now remember KU is a public college. Meaning they receive state money.

So you want KU to get on the wrong side of these schools and the policial structure to play out of state top 25 teams in exhibition games?

I'm just asking?

One problem with making it a regular exhibition would be we would have to drop one of our others against the small Kansas schools. Those programs benefit from getting their "fodder fee" at AFH.

All in all, a one time event as an exhibition. I have no opinion on whether it becomes a regular matchup--donors might make themselves heard on that. Maybe KC would give each team a million bucks. Then we might see it.

DoubleDD said:

So you cats are ok with playing a pontetial top 25 team in the exhibition season? Not only that but against MU? Who has everything to gain and nothing to lose? You want this every season? You want KU to stop playing pushovers and play nothing but top 25 teams every game?

Please help me understand?

• Yes. Yes. Yes. No. Not necessarily. I have posted numerous times trying to help you understand.

DoubleDD said:

@jayballer54

So you want KU to play top 25 teams in exhibition games?

Did you not see Exhibition? - -it does not affect your regular season record in any way. - -You get tons more out of the game then playing St Sister Mary's school for the blind, - -Let me ask you this again - -exactly what do we gain from playing Some boys innermaurel program - - AAU team - - -Washburn teams of that nature? - -We play our in-state Schools more for those Schools - - - NOT us. - -They get a nice paycheck for playing us - -their players get the opportunity to play against some of the elite players in America -- what do we get? - Our players don't gain hardly anything beneficial at all from these type of games.

I'm not saying every exhibition game we play has to be against another top 25 team - -bit they can be against someone of a lot higher stature then those schools. - Makes our players focus better -challenges the players , the Coaches can go back and so them where they need to improve like Coach said yesterday - -he has a lot to show them. - -What is he going to show them against these smaller in state Schools. - -There is no comparison to the advantages they get. - - Not going to hurt our chances of making the Tourney , just gets us better prepared for regular season challenges. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@JayHawkFanToo Nuff said -- any questions? - - lmao - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54 Exhibitions have to be against non-Div 1 schools, so it is unrealistic to expect better teams from larger schools.

DoubleDD said:

@BShark

Last I heard KU fans were kicking the crap out of MU fans in charitable donations.

Last time I checked.

I’m not sure if this is a good thing or not. Seems kinda selfish. It potientally means KU fans had more they were able to donate, but only if given something. Whereas MU fans may have already donated all they could afford.

I still wish KU would’ve played WSU as opposed to selling out. But it’s happened, no one got hurt, and a bunch of blood money was raised for a legitimately good cause.

@dylans Maybe it just means (1) it was a catalyst for donating due to highlighting attention for the cause, and (2) the much higher success over the past 5 years for KU has resulted in a more involved, larger, and more enthusiastic fan base?

@mayjay I hope so, but people in general aren’t as good as we’d like them to be. Hell KU fans can’t even get along with each other.

@dylans I get along with everybody. Unless they insist on being wrong about everything, of course, like my brother!

@mayjay But you are not everybody.

@dylans And, fortunately, everybody is/are not I.

@dylans

"I still wish KU would’ve played WSU as opposed to selling out."

Don't fret it. The word is this fundraiser was a huge success... opening the door for future fundraising "scrimmages."

Great chance we will play the "Shawkers" someday!

lol

A few things that have been mentioned by several posters that others seem to overlook.

Exhibition games must be against non Division I programs so that rules out MU as a regular exhibition game. Even it it were allowed, then you would have to restrict the rotation of the smaller Kansas schools for whom this game is the main source of income for the year. The backlash would be huge so it cannot happen.

The game was one-of-a-kind game and thus a waiver was required. Highly unlike the NCAA makes it a routine/on going deal so the game would have to be scheduled as as regular season game. Granting more waivers would open Pandora's box of trouble and I just don't see the NCAA going there.

If one game is played yearly, highly unlikely that MU would accept having the game at the Sprint Center. Even when it is in Missouri, the fan base in the KC area is overwhelmingly for KU, thus the game would have to be scheduled as alternating between Lawrence and Columbia. KU would lose the income every time it goes to Columbia and would get no additional income playing in Lawrence since AFH is sold out regardless of opponent. MU would definitely sell out it arena when playing KU, likely the only time it does; net advantage MU. KU would be financially better off having another program to come and play at AFH. More importantly, does KU really want to go and play in Columbia? Do we not remember the horror stories from playing there? KU played there because it had to, not it does not.

At this time, it looks like MU will have a decent team after years of absolutely horrible teams. The first two years in the SEC its record was 11-7, tied for fifth (NCAA first round) and 9-9 , tied for 6th (NIT second round) with players left over from the Big 12 days. The last 3 season alone MU's conference record is a putrid 8-46 finishin last, last and tied for last in the SEC. Had KU played them all these years, the scores would have been very lopsided and would have hurt KU's RPI big time. There are no assurances that MU will stay relevant after the current novelty of a new coach and nepotism based class wears out and Martin leaves after the customary 3 years of declining success. KU would be well served to wait at least wait until the MU program has shown it can stay relevant for a few years and before the second stint of coach Kim Anderson starts.

@JayHawkFanToo You hit the nail on the head. You clearly defined the risks for Kansas getting involved with MU as a yearly rivalry game. The same logic applies to WSU fans, though some of that may be wearing off with them making several consecutive tournaments and upping their conference level competition. All these people touting this game as awesome (it was fun) are neglecting the fact that KU v MU games since they left for the SEC would have been garbage. It wouldn't be tough competition/top 25 level games, it wouldn't be prepping for bright lights and UK. It would have been either a ho hum blow out or an excruciating upset.

KU consistently holds up the rest of the Big 12 in basketball and has for years. So if any teams bail for more football money (fair enough, we aren't holding up our end of the bargain there), they shouldn't expect "charity" games from KU even if they are literally for charity!

As far as rivalries go, I am growing to hate ISU a bit. But I've always thought our best shot was UT getting their act together in basketball. Shaka Smart is easy for KU fans to dislike, UT fans do usually show up for the KU game at least.

@JayHawkFanToo I think they could have a game in KC every year, but sell tickets with the same allocation to each school as was done here. I think that even atmosphere was what made it more fun. Of course, people would try to find resellers and that could skew things. I think it is much more doable than a home game every 2 years--home and home worked in conference but I think it is unworkable when spread out.

And a neutral ticket policy would also keep it closer to a postseason simulation.

@mayjay

Unless they change the way money is allocated, it would not benefit KU. Coach Self has indicated that KU makes considerably more money playing at AFH than at the Sprint Center and as you know, money talks.

Still don't see the full replay of the game on youtube. When that gets posted it would be great if someone throws it up on KUBuckets.

@drgnslayr it was on YouTube but was removed.