🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Well this ought to get some interesting conversation , get the negative nellies going.

So while I'm sitting here trying to pass the day away till " ITS'S HERE " game time tonight random thoughts going through the head and I wonder now , why AREN'T we scheduling Wichita State in Basketball? Before we hear the patent answer of What do we gain - -or nothing to gain from it - - - Please that excuse is getting really old.

I mean ya I agree at one time , at one point that would of held true But now - - - - -come on. - - -You have to realize MOST fans of the game would much rather see a KU/WSU contest then KU - - -South Dakota St - - Oakland - - or even Arizona State or Stanford. Let's be brutally honest here - -who is the better team now WSU or / Arizona State - -Stanford - or for sure the others I mentioned? - -Keep it real.

Wichita State has accomplished more then Arizona State/ Stanford or any of the others I mentioned for sure, and has established their program as a very solid program. - -So the question of what do we have to gain - -isn't jack any longer. - -We play them and win does nothing but help our strength of schedule, our RPI a win against another top 25 program. If we would happen to lose it's not as bad as losing to smaller programs - -the true upset.

I get the whole Missouri thing -I understand completely , and I understand about WSU in the past the Missouri Valley thing and all, but they have moved past that, whether we want to admit it or not they have become a respectable program - -very solid.

So what's the real reason of not wanting to play them? - -I hope to GOD it's not the old cliché saying about KU as once referred to as snob hill, looking down our nose at what we feel as inferior and greater then thou. - -I'm know we are better but since we are then play the game and shut them up. - - unless - - -we are truly afraid - -afraid of getting beat by them - - -Again. - -are we afraid? - -hope not - - -surely not. - -This game could be a really good rivalry - -better then the KU/KSU thing that's for sure, that damn thing is so one sided. - -How can it be a rivalry when it is so one sided? the other team needs to win once in a while for it to be a rivalry- Why can't we have a home & home series with them - -or a 2-1 ?

It's time to play this out on the floor, show who is the better, let them feel the wrath, there is no reason other then just - -well there isn't a reason unless we have the Crimson & Blue blinders on to tight - - the perceived looking down our nose , we win -- -it's a quality win against a top 25 program, - - we lose well - - -OMG is that the real reason? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@Jayballer54 I agree that WSU is now a worthy opponent and KU should be playing them as long as they can stay relevant. When KU (Roy) discontinued the series it was extremely lopsided and WSU posed no more challenge than PSU will tonight. While WSU is prone to decades of mediocrity, times have changed, time to catch up. We owe the Shlockers a little payback anyways!

Now that WSU is in the American Conference, they are certainly a worthy opponent.

The question is, what does KU gain? When I look at scheduling for KU, one of the things I consider is whether the game will attract interest outside the state of Kansas. That's why I am higher on playing Mizzou than WSU. A KU-WSU non NCAA game doesn't necessarily matter outside the state borders. Because Kansas (the state) is so small, KU needs games on the non-con schedule that matter outside the state borders for recruiting purposes. That's why you play Oakland (in Detroit), Stanford (California), Arizona State (Arizona, obviously for Mitch's homecoming) and others. I would be in favor of playing one of the Chicago area schools (key recruiting pipeline), or Memphis (basketball hotbed).

We play in Texas enough during the conference season that we don't necessarily need to play any of those schools down there, but I am all for playing schools outside the geographic area. WSU would be a good game for sure, and I believe they are a worthy opponent, but would that game be on TV anywhere outside of Kansas/Kansas City, or would it just be a regional game on a Saturday afternoon?

If KU were to start scheduling a school from the American, I'd much rather it be Temple, Cincinnati or Memphis than WSU because that gets us into other areas. Heck, we should probably schedule one of the Florida schools now that we are getting more guys from IMG (located just south of Tampa). That probably has more draw than a WSU game. Sure, KU is on national TV already, but adding a non-con game that might not be a top regional game if WSU slips even a little bit isn't the best idea.

@dylans Agree, I remember us going to Levitt and playing and winning there. I think it would be better if we worked it out for the game to be played at the arena near downtown - get more seats.

I like you feel NOW they are more relevant and just think it could be a very competitive hotly contested game. - - -Good rivalry . - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@justanotherfan You bring up some really good points , and I understand that for sure. - -The only thing that might be is that as you stated that KU has all the National exposure off TV for sure, again I understand but with all the exposure we already get Nationally the area's you mentioned I'm quite sure has seen us ( KU ) plenty from the National attention we receive

I just think that ONE more game switching WSU for somebody would be a very entertaining competitive game to watch.

Let's ask ourselves would it be really THAT much different then some of the other in-state rivals? - - Louisville/Kentucky ? - - -N Carolina/ N Carolina state? - - UCLA/USC - - - Arizona/Arizona State? - -I don't know. - -Again you bring up very valid strong points, maybe we do need to schedule some other teams - - - AAC -would love to get a KU/ Cinn series going - -just random thoughts on this Tuesday waiting for the game. - -Still would love to see it.

Actually me myself personally like you said I would actually think it would be cool to start the KU/Mizzery up again. - -A lot of people was against it but if you were to ask if they watched/enjoyed the game back when we played? - - If it were to ever happen, I bet it would be just as intense. - Thanks for your points. - -ROCK CHALK AL DAY LONG BABY

Don't see Bill playing an in-state game that he has a chance of losing and isn't in conference play. Doesn't make sense recruiting-wise.

I'd love to see this game, but I just don't see the benefit of it. Or where it would be played that both teams would agree. KU isn't giving up a home game every other season, nor are they giving up a trip out to the coast where they can hit the recruiting trail while they are there.

Am I crazy or has WSU wanted the series to start AND it be a Home and Home? That benefits KU exactly none amount. If WSU wants to play, I think it will have to be in Lawrence every season.

KU plays places like Arizona St., Stanford, UNLV, Temple, and other places like that because of the proximity to major recruiting areas. KU has landed players from all of these areas in recent years.

KU lands players from Wichita without needing to travel there so that's why a WSU series doesn't make a ton of sense right now.

The major difference with those other in-state games is that those games are already in strong recruiting territory, or are nationally recognized games. UK-UL is a national level game between two blue bloods or near blue bloods (11 national titles between them). Other than UK-UL, the rest of those games are conference games anyway. Adding a non-con game in-state with a non blue blood doesn't necessarily serve a purpose.

I'm not against playing WSU per se, but the other question is where you play the game. I want the KU-MU game because you would play it in KC every year as an event rather than just a random non-con game. Home and home doesn't make sense for that kind of thing. KC doesn't make sense, either. There's nowhere else in the state to play that game.

Home and home does make sense if you're getting out into another recruiting territory.

@Kcmatt7 I actually believe KU would be better served to play more away games in non-con. AFH is the best home court/field advantage in sports. But to prepare for the tournament, KU needs to get away from there and play tough teams. If that means heading down to Wichita every other year, I'm not against it, although I am more for taking that trip to somewhere else. KU plays one true road game (at Nebraska) and another semi road game (Stanford in Sacramento).

I understand the economics, but KU needs to get out on the road and into a hostile environment a little bit more often.

@jayballer54 All the in-state rivalries you mentioned are in-conference rivalries except for UL and UK. Exposure nationally from a game in Kansas vs WSU isn't the same as being in other far-flung cities near where high level recruits are located.

BTW, I would love to see KU and S Carolina play a H&A series for a few years. Has the Self/Martin drawing card. This area (southeast US) has zillions of recruits and we don't get into the area much except for the UK game or occasional NCAA games if we are sent to a different region from the MW.

There is nothing to gain from a recruiting stand point because we already get most of the good enough players to be D1 in the state. The trouble is that it's a no win for KU, you give WSU more exposure than they would normally get and if you win, you beat a team you should beat but if you lose you lose to a mid major (idk that I'd consider a AAC mid major maybe). Self won't risk losing to them in a game that gains nothing and honestly they play way harder than we do. That's why they won in 2015, we were flat out lazy and they hustled.

I am against an ongoing series with wsu, but they are a preseason top 10 team (ranked higher than KU in some polls). They have also ended KUs season the last two times they met. I am wholly for a game now, but it's something that needs evaluated yearly. (So it won't happen) No the game doesn't help recruiting, unless it's a nationally televised prime time matchup of top 10 teams.

As far as how does it actually help KU? These are the type of teams that bounce KU in March, the regular season is the time to get exposed and fix the issues.

A couple of things that need to be clarified. Roy Williams did not end the series withe WSU, the series was stopped at the request of WSU as it had be come a one-sided event.

Next, and as others have mentioned, a lot of the games KU plays in the non-confrere schedule are aimed squarely at playing at or near areas where there are potential prospects or to play at the home of a KU player (remember playing in South Dakota, home of Jeff Bosche?). Wichita is close enough that prospects and families can easily drive to Lawrence to see games.

Last, if you follow WSU basketball history, they go on spurts, a few good years followed by longer periods of irrelevance. WSU is going through their "perfect storm" where they have benefited from a core group of lower ranked players that tuned out to be excellent college players and right now it might be at its peak but there are no assurances it will stay this way, particularly if Marshall leaves.

The game would have a lot of upside for WSU and no downside since they get national exposure (most KU games do) and they will also be the de-facto underdog so no downside with a loss. The opposite is true for KU, they will be expected to win and if they don't we will hear it for ever...I still hear from WSU fans about the loss in San Antonio...how many years ago? Exposure? no, they can get better exposure playing a East/West Coast top program instead.

Would it be nice to play WSU? Yes. Does it make sense for KU? Based on the above, No.

@JayHawkFanToo Didn't Roy mercifully end the series at wsu request? I don't believe I've read differently here or elsewhere. Maybe I misunderstood your take.

KUs non con is crappy this year WSU would've been the second best team KU plays pretty much all year. I do think that would help KU prepare for March.

Greg Marshall is a good coach, but one who needs put in his place. KU can't do that without actually beating them on the hardwood.

I'm all for a one off game, but am in 100% agreement with you that an ongoing series would be a mistake.

@JayHawkFanToo

I'd argue that WSU is not in a spurt with a "core group". They have been to the tournament every year since 2012. They have basically an entire roster turnover since their Final Four team in 2013. I agree that if Marshall leaves, you have to re-evaluate them, but the fact that they move conferences now, while they are on this run could help them recruit to sustain this if Marshall does ever leave.

WSU has 10 NCAA tournament wins in the last five years. That's pretty impressive, particularly for a team that has been a double digit seed twice in that stretch.

They had their best recruiting class under Marshall this year, their star PG is a sophomore. WSU has the pieces in place to continue to be good under Marshall for the foreseeable future. Maybe not national title good, but WSU could certainly become the midwest version of Gonzaga or Villanova. They have enough Koch money to compete for recruits, particularly in a better conference now.

They aren't a national power, exactly, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were in the Sweet 16 every other year or so.

Anything to beef up the schedule would be agreeable on my part. Wisconsin plays Marquette every year. That's a pretty good non-conference and very competitive series. ND, do they play Indiana or Purdue every year? Pretty sure they play Purdue each season. I forget. Those would be great instate rivalry. But our schedule, like so many teams goes to the path of least resistance.

I bring it up every year, but go look at KU"s schedule in the '80's. in 86 we beat Louisville TWICE. They were the national champs. They played Kentucky that season. They played Duke TWICE (once in the final four). They played NCState, a powerful team those years TWICE in NC (once in the sweet 16) They also played Arkansas and Washington and Memphis. All non conf games which prepared that team for greatness. The only thing they weren't prepared for were the refs in Dallas who fouled out our whole starting lineup basically while letting Duke do whatever they wanted on their way to a 4 point win.

@justanotherfan If money were no object...

justanotherfan said:

@JayHawkFanToo

I'd argue that WSU is not in a spurt with a "core group". They have been to the tournament every year since 2012. They have basically an entire roster turnover since their Final Four team in 2013. I agree that if Marshall leaves, you have to re-evaluate them, but the fact that they move conferences now, while they are on this run could help them recruit to sustain this if Marshall does ever leave.

WSU has 10 NCAA tournament wins in the last five years. That's pretty impressive, particularly for a team that has been a double digit seed twice in that stretch.

They had their best recruiting class under Marshall this year, their star PG is a sophomore. WSU has the pieces in place to continue to be good under Marshall for the foreseeable future. Maybe not national title good, but WSU could certainly become the midwest version of Gonzaga or Villanova. They have enough Koch money to compete for recruits, particularly in a better conference now.

They aren't a national power, exactly, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were in the Sweet 16 every other year or so.

Have to agree with you pretty impressive during this span. - -Actually isn't that rivaling or not even better then our own KU during that same time frame? I don't see them regressing at all. I think Marshall isn't going anywhere for at least another 4-5 years and as you say by that point - -don't think it will matter

Pretty interesting piece written about Wichita State off ESPN college Basketball check it out. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54

It is exactly the same. 10 wins for each over that period. Averaging two wins a year is basically averaging a Sweet 16 every season. That's pretty lofty.

All I read was why don't we schedule WSU in basketball. I skipped the comments.

Clucking ... like ... a ... chicken. When a little fella is pokin' at you, you can ignore it, and ignore it more. Sometimes, the little fella learns more by being squished like a bug. Pokin' ain't as fun anymore. That is all I have to contribute.

@HighEliteMajor a lot of folks are scared of losing. WSU is a legit top ten team and has been top twenty five the last several seasons. No good reason not to play them anymore. Do we really gain recruits because we schedule a team in their area? I would like to hear stats and articles about this.

@HawkChamp All you have to do is read about the recruiting trips coaches take those next couple of days after we play on the coast.

Yea, we're hitting the fertile recruiting grounds of Nebraska. Kidding of course. We go to Stanford, too. Nice trip. Of course, the recruiting trip thing is a complete red herring.

It's not a matter of sacrificing a trip like that, of course. It's a matter of sacrificing one home game vs. the likes of Siena, UAB (or IUPUI), UC Ashecrap, Texas Southern (or eastern, or western, or northern), South Dakota St. (or north), Long Bum State, et. al. once every two seasons (home and home). I'm quite sure KU fans would rather see that parade of stiffs instead of lacing it up against a real opponent. I'm sure our tourney resume looks better with games against those puds.

Just does nothing for us. Heard that before, haven't we?

Holy crap, I just won that argument too.

I'm all for playing the Shocks, but screw going down to Wichita for it.

why AREN’T we scheduling Wichita State in Basketball?
—@jayballer54

Marsha refuses to wear burnt cork on his signboard forehead to hold down the glare, so our guys can see the rim!!!

@jaybate-1-0

Can we schedule them in football instead? We need the wins...

(all humor, no malice)

@BShark that I agree with. Tell them either Allen fieldhouse or Sprint center

@justanotherfan he even made a snide remark about our fb program.

justanotherfan said:

@jaybate-1-0

Can we schedule them in football instead? We need the wins...

(all humor, no malice)

Now there is a thought!!!!

@wissox ND alternates between IU and Purdue in Indy at the Crossroads weekend where the 4 major Indiana programs play each other.

HawkChamp said:

Do we really gain recruits because we schedule a team in their area? I would like to hear stats and articles about this.

You may not directly land players, but it offers assistant coaches an easy trip to see some high profile players they are recruiting. Las Vegas has a bunch of high profile prep academies so playing a game at UNLV allows those coaches to visit a few players at their schools while on that trip.

Arizona St. and Stanford are each in close proximity to major recruiting areas. Josh Jackson played in both areas at Hillside in the Phoenix area and Prolific Prep in Napa north of the bay area. When KU plays at Temple or Villanova in Philly, there's a ridiculous amount of high school talent in that area of Philly and South New Jersey. Playing Syracuse down in Miami, guaranteed a coach will be making a recruiting visit to somebody on that trip.

When KU schedules a road game, it's almost always going to be in a area that's a recruiting hotbed.

I will add some gas to the fire, According to ESPN's BPI, ↗ Wichita State is predicted to win the NCAA. Weirder things have happened before.

Wouldn't you love a KU-WSU final? The networks/NCAA would not allow it since the ratings would be tiny.