Feel free, especially those who don’t post very much.. doubtlessly we will get some in depth posts soon, but this is just for quick hit thoughts..
Mine -
I say it ad nauseum, but a division win is a win. Period
We got lucky- let’s hope our bad game is out of our system
Baylor’s D strategy worked and will be copied.
We're not the team we need to be yet. We are developing some grit.
Bill Self wins games. Maybe not the pretty way we all want it to be. Love it. Hate it. Indifferent. Whatever fan you are, you can't argue with the facts. The guy wins games. Some are close. Some seem too close like tonight. Some awesome stats below.
Bill has won 6 of the last 7 on the road against top 10 teams.
Won 15 of our last 16 single digit games.
9 of last 10 one point games.
Malik Newman was huge down the stretch.
Vick has fallen way off a cliff somewhere
Svi had foul trouble, just one of those games
I don't see how Marcus can continue to play big minutes if he can't shoot or look to shoot to get confidence
@BeddieKU23 Amen to that. We are playing 4 against 5 on offense when he is in the game. And what high paid coach is teaching Udoka how to shoot free throws? Ugliest form in college bball. We can't have him on the floor late in a close game. SHEEESH!!!
I don't get Vick? I also don't believe doke practices throws. No rhythm. No dribbles no pause, grab the ball and sling it
My quick thought is that everybody looked bad after we tried to play 3/2.
My second thought is that Svi must have been sick.
My third thought is that everyone else except Newman must have been sick, too.
I'm one that is excited about what we will be in 2 weeks more than where we are now. Coach now knows what he has to play with and can get the consistency that we will need. Every game helps and to pull the last two out shows some grit in this team.
Haiku for KU v. Failor
Great out of the gate.
Let them hang around too long.
Stole it at the end
Flat but a W! Saved "amped up" for OK.
@Crimsonorblue22 Not as bad as the others, but he needs to be taking charge. Had a horrible inability to finish layups after the foul was committed, plus on 2 where he went under the basket w/o getting fouled he just threw it up blindly.
@Crimsonorblue22 Agree on Vick. I can not see him getting a sniff in the League the way he has disappeared. And if Dok does not practice ft's, then the coaching staff is failing him and also the team. There is no excuse for him not to devote 30+ minutes after practice to learning a good form, a soft touch, and a follow thru. It is not that hard.
@Big-Clyde52 there's a gym in their dorm🏀🏀🏀🏀
Amen to that.. I don’t understand why his free throw motion is astonishingly crap. He clearly just chucks it towards the basket and assumes it will miss badly.
He needs an intensive intervention since teams will intentionally foul him (as Baylor did )
@Crimsonorblue22 Even more cause of there being no excuse. I still feel he needs coaching and not try and do it on his own. I don't care if it is a coach, Devonte, Svi, Newman, or whoever. It is obvious that he is getting no help, which is inexcusable.
Unbelievable stat: 1 KU point on 10 offensive rebounds.
My first thoughts are on Malik taking over late and saving us. He had a solid outing with 24, 7 and 2. Is it just me or does he seem to play so much better when he’s rebounding well, makes sense because rebounding is a hustle stat but great game fella. Graham’s jumper was off for much of the night but managed to score 15 while leading the team in assits and rebounds. Vick and Svi were pretty much non factors outside of a couple of plays. Svi was probably due for a bad game and I’m not sure what’s up with Vick, he just seems too passive on offense. You are plenty capable of scoring my friend. I really didn’t think Doke played well tonight obviously he had his monster dunks which is a given but he struggled mightily boxing out on the defensive end and his ft shooting will cost us a game if he can’t at least hit half of them. Garrett is in the same boat, most guards don’t shoot at 50% from the line like he is on the year. I love the kid and he’s always going hard but offensively he’s just flat out hard to watch. Someone mentioned that is pretty much a TO when he shoots it and it’s tough to disagree shooting 41% from the floor, 18% from 3 and 50% from the line. Silvio and Mitch came in ate up some minutes and fouls, outside of a Mitch block you’d never know they hit the floor. Surprised we didn’t see Sam with how Vick, Svi and Garrett all played tonight, he must not be practicing to well at this point. I’m worried that with us not being able to hold double digit second half leads we will get worn down before too long. Graham played all 40 minutes, sat for about 13 seconds of game clock and all other starters r had at least 31 minutes in a game that we should’ve won bye 15-20. But a win always feels so much better than the alternative.
@kjayhawks Malik usually boards well. Svi can't miss those easy layins! Foul 3 pt shooters! Vick? Was he there? He needs to be out boarding the guards! Leading in steals!
@Crimsonorblue22 Malik averages 4.5 rebounds a game but in his big scoring games he’s had 7 or 8 like he did tonight and against ISU. Yes, Vick just isn’t aggressive enough on both ends really, he’ll figured it out tho. It just wasn’t Svi’s night in several areas, this game and Washington are the only 2 games where he hasn’t scored in double figures and only the 3rd game that he hasn’t atleast hit 2 threes this season, his game doesn’t worry me much.
Roller coaster ride. I'd said back at the beginning. Jump on. Ups, downs, and all around.
The win vs. WVU told us everything, but told us nothing. We can beat anyone, anywhere, anytime ... but the converse is also a bit true too. This team could lose a 2 vs. 15 game quite easily. Or we could win the national championship. Would either be completely shocking?
More than any year in recent memory, I feel coach Self coaching. Steak one day, Kraft mac-n-cheese the next. Just eat it. Embrace it.
And Malik Newman. Bam. You think that guy is getting a bit now what Self wants?
@HighEliteMajor I'd be somewhat shocked if this team strung 6 games together to win the nc.
Replaced with a wheat shock?
@HighEliteMajor yep, the only other team I can remember feeling this way about was the 2012 team. They have a lot of the same characteristics as this one in terms of playing with anyone but also could’ve lost to anyone. That team also couldn’t hold leads to save their lives. Honestly I think the 2014 (after Embiid was hurt) and 15 teams were the one that I was sure that wouldn't do much in March maybe 06 because we were so youthful. This team could get hot and stomp some really good teams anywhere as you said.
@kjayhawks 2012 was different though. I trusted that team to get stops when it mattered. Just the same they could have easily lost any of those tournament games after the first one and before UK...
@BShark hey this team got big stops at the end in the last 2 Saturday’s, it may have had something to do with play callling and or execution but hey a stop is a stop. We also played pretty good tonight and Monday just gave up too many offensive rebound shots IMO, the defense has improved quiet a bit since the Tech game even.
@Crimsonorblue22 The whole team was pretty putrid shooting the ball from three. They were actually really damn good from inside the arc, one of the best in the country that year from 2. Old school Self ball. They did the grit-n-grind almost all the way to a title if not for an all-time UK team.
Ohhhh how KU hoops has evolved the last few years.
@kjayhawks Yeah I still don't trust this team defensively at all especially compared to 2012.
Withey was incredible and literally every player but Teahan was a ++ defender or better in college ball.
Quick post game thought is the same as when I have time to reflect - this team is damn hard to figure out. Lose to 2 teams that are in the middle of the pack in the P12. Lose by double digits in KC and AFH. All 4 B12 wins at AFH by single digits, mostly against the second tier teams in the conference - But, win first the first 3 B12 games on the road, including in Morgantown, which more talented teams haven't been able to do. Absolutely no consistency in individual performances - Vick great early, but has disappeared recently. Newman a complete non-factor through most of the early part of the season, but 20+ in 2 recent games. Showing grit in coming back in Morgantown and tonight, but looking awful in getting way behind or giving up big leads at home. My head spins every time I watch these guys....
Shaq finished career with 53%. Sometimes people can’t make free throws.
Garrett has so much potential defensively but his offensive ineptitude is tough to watch.
Frank could handle 38-40 a game. I don’t think Graham can keep this up. His propensity for cramping up and all these minutes may catch up with him in the next 8-10 games.
@kjayhawks Rebounding is a huge part of it. When the other team missed, that team generally got the ball back. And by generally I mean they were top 5 in total rebounds in the country iirc. They definitely took a step down defensively with Teahan in though.
EJ was alright. Defense being what it is (a team effort) and with guys being able to funnel to Withey I do think everyone's advanced defensive numbers looked quite good.
Quick thought: I thought we'd win by 20
Longer thought: I'm happy with the way the team didn't quit, so it's a better win than a 20-point win
Seemed to me that Bill was just RIPPING Dok every time out for his lazy play. Luckily he decided to show some effort on the final possession by altering the shot.
Blown said:
Shaq finished career with 53%. Sometimes people can’t make free throws.
Garrett has so much potential defensively but his offensive ineptitude is tough to watch.
Frank could handle 38-40 a game. I don’t think Graham can keep this up. His propensity for cramping up and all these minutes may catch up with him in the next 8-10 games.
My hope is that Garrett continues to work on his jumper and makes strides each offseason in particular. Because he is gonna play, Self loves him.
Graham will be alright. I wish he could get slightly more rest but the team generally looks like crap when he isn't in the game. The cramping is a concern, but I don't think there will be cumulative damage. Too bad every team in the league this year is decent. There simply isn't a game where we can for sure rest Graham.
Fightsongwriter said:
Seemed to me that Bill was just RIPPING Dok every time out for his lazy play. Luckily he decided to show some effort on the final possession by altering the shot.
Honestly 34 minutes is too much for Doke but Mitch and Silvio weren't ready for this Baylor team and their athleticism and length.
Buy time with junk defenses. Run clockdown. We are ahead early sub out.
Because Vick and Garrett are non-factors on the offensive end, teams concentrate on Graham, Svi and Doke. Until recently, they didn’t need to bother with Newman. Teams aren’t guarding Garrett at all,outside, daring him to shoot. Vick seems to have the yips. It was a tough second half on the offensive end.
I'm not thrilled with how they played, but I believe that the hardest game to win is the game after a big win. So I'm glad they won.
They avoid the loss and there's still plenty of things for Self to scream at them for.
I don't have any quick thoughts, just slow ones. I didn't get to watch, gave up because watchespn app wasn't working very well for some reason.
Looked at the box score. I did see us go up 18-6 or something like that and then score 50 more points over the next 36 minutes (zzzzzs) This team can jump out of the gate better than any team in the history of hoops and then forget what they were doing shortly thereafter. That Baylor team was about a bad a Baylor team we've seen in a while (at least the parts I could see).
So quick thoughts. Bill Self doesn't know who he has on his bench (kidding), and he needs to listen to us every once awhile, his unpaid assistants.
Doke don't know how to shoot fts. UGLY aint no alibi, but it's ugly. Maybe we could ask the other team not to foul him. His FT's look like a pinball launcher. Pull it back and let the spring thingy push it off his palm.
DG filled the statbook. Where'd we be without him.
We don't have enough depth to survive an off night by Svi.
Newmie's coming along.
I taught at a hs with four great girls on their team and nobody else. Coach would tell the others to just stay out of the way and let the four very competent girls do their thing. This is what our team feels like when Garrett is in there.
The annual B12 swoon came a month early. We usually had to sweat this wrapping up the title thing in the middle of February, but it feels like it's close.
I know we're winning the top to bottom best league in the land but I don't have much confidence that this team has what it takes to win it all.
Preston's gone, I'm fine with it, wish I'd never heard his name to be honest.
Beat OU.
Gorilla72 said:
Because Vick and Garrett are non-factors on the offensive end, teams concentrate on Graham, Svi and Doke. Until recently, they didn’t need to bother with Newman. Teams aren’t guarding Garrett at all,outside, daring him to shoot.
Yes, that's what I'm seeing too. We need to replace / upgrade Garrett with someone who will at least draw coverage and be a scoring threat of some kind. Probably Silvio (liked seeing him get minutes tonight) and/or a combo of others. But it needs to happen soon I think.
But bottom line tonight - can't argue with a win and Self has been masterful this year cobbling together strategies to procure them. Someone said it earlier here, that there were times it was obvious, even to someone not that well versed in the subtleties of the game, where you could just see the effects of good coaching.
It's why even down by 6 with a few minutes left, I wasn't worried (well not much anyways). Drew just isn't a good coach, especially in the last few minutes. Self completely has his number, maybe a lime green voodoo doll with pins in it that makes Drew draw up bonehead plays late in the game.
So while we could lose to anyone on any given night... we usually don't. And 14 is looking pretty darn good right now after the bloodbath the rest of the league leaders took this past week. Now, I'm not sure about the FF without Preston, but hey, this team knows how to win tough games and that is something that can take you a long ways.
Perhaps our tentative play in AFH this year will be a harbinger for better things to come during post-season play on neutral courts.
I look at the game in segments. We started off hot... hitting treys and flowing out well. We rattled Baylor early. Then, over the span of about three possessions we went soft. Guys standing around and having lanes to attack but pulling the ball out. No aggression.
The only thing that saved us this game was Baylor's disjointed offense.
If our guys are smart, they will treat this game like a loss. Because it was. It showed us we aren't where we need to be to compete against a better team, or just a team that can run a bit better offense. That would include MOST of the other Big 12 teams!
It's time to think about finishing the Big 12 strong and riding that peak right into March. NOW, is the time to bear down and really get after our weak spots.
Doke is going to cost us a game or two somewhere with his FTs. He just has to decide on ONE traditional form of lining up his elbow with the ball and he immediately becomes a 60% shooter. It's all up from there. Garrett is another one that has to focus on his shot, including his FTs. Between these two, we may expect to lose 4 to 10 points a game. That is HUGE!
We really need more offense from Vick. He started out the year shooting well and attacking. We don't really know if he is hot or cold from trey because he isn't getting up enough shots. I don't know... maybe the notch up in pressure from entering Big 12 play was just enough added pressure to take him out of his flow.
Malik just needs to keep being Malik. He is constantly showing more of a connection and he goes after rebounds. Something we are in desperate need of. Man.... did he not win this game for us down the stretch? What did he do... score the last 12 points or so? I really LOVE how Malik isn't afraid to go in there and scrap for rebounds!
Devonte is fine. He won't produce the same results every game, but he is getting after it. We should pick up several additional wins just from Devonte's hot games.
Let's just hope these guys spend a couple hours in the video room playing this tape. Lot's of weak areas to spot and address.
Think of all the time the coaching staff has to draw up 1 late game play to get a team 2 pts. And Drew comes up with??
A weak pass all the way across court to a freshman forward who is kinda awkward and gangly. With no one within 15 feet of him to dish to even if the pass had been catchable. Brilliant! Lets write that one down and tryit boys!
Now compare that to what Bill would have drawn up. One of these things is not like the other
You wonder if Bill says in the huddle...
Ok guys lets have some fun; i want to poke Drew again. Let the game get close so in the last copule mins i can draw some fun stuff up and make him look totally inferior once again. It never gets old!
I see where the poke-a-Doke finally was used with success against KU and it will likely be used again; if the staff has been unable to fix his FT stroke, which is as bad as it gets, chances are it will no fix it this season. Now KU is in a catch 22, take Coke out and its best rim protector or risk empty posessions with Doke at the line.
KU’s margin of error is razor thin. It has yet to play a conference game at home where it built a comfortable lead and games will not get any easier moving forward, particularly now thT teams are figuring out its weaknesses. Luckily, KU seems to be playing better on the road but the schedule looks tough; a couple of weeks ago I would have penciled the game at Bramledge as a potential win, now not so much. Someone needs to resend the memo to the players about playing at AFH where it is not supposed to lose, least of all to Baylor.
@Fightsongwriter If you are referring to the inbound play by Baylor where the ball was thrown to the sideline and deflected by KU out of bounds, that was a really good play as it put Baylor on the KU side of the court with no time off the clock; I believe the announcer/analyst said the same thing.
@JayHawkFanToo Yes. Poke a Doke worked for them.....especially in the last few minutes when they grabbed him when he got that offensive rebound (or maybe a lost ball by DG...can't remember)...Doke missed both. Garrett struggled as well with FTs.....those 2 missing so many contributed to our 2nd half offensive struggles.
I was jumping out of my skin when about halfway through the 2nd half and we had scored like 10 points and let them back in the game.
@Crimsonorblue22 When I watch Doke ready himself to shoot a free throw , he spins the ball in his hand just as he starts his shooting motion. He spins it diagonally. I watched Jackson backspin the ball all last year. I assume spinning the ball is a nervous habit and not something a D1 coach would ever teach a player is part of a successful free throw motion. Doke, maybe you need to hear it from me, on every free throw the ball needs to be at rest in your dominant hand at the start of your free throw motion; the only spin comes from your wrist as your release the ball. The more static the ball is in your shooting hand as you release it, the more accurately it will be propelled toward the rim. Free throw accuracy is about technique, confidence and level of fatigue. Very straightforward and easily taught.
I am of the belief that our coaching staff hasn't really stepped in to work on Doke's FT stroke. It appears obvious, just from watching Doke at the line.
I couldn't describe his technique if I had to. He bends his wrist at an angle under the ball, much like youth players do before taught some technique. And then... if he misses a FT and has a second FT, he usually tries a different stroke.
We have read before that our coaching staff usually doesn't like to get in there and address player's shot technique. This is more of a Bill Self concept where he wants those major changes to happen in the off season.
In this particular case... we simply can't wait until summer. We could easily go down in March because of Doke's FT faults. We haven't really seen many intentional fouls on Doke supporting a strategy of "hack a Doke"... but you know, and I know, that is going to change in March. Tournament teams step up a notch in competitiveness.... they are going to use it to their advantage, and why wouldn't they? I know I would be screaming at our coaches and players if we have to deal with a situation like a Doke that can't even make half his FTs but we failed to take advantage of it!