Diallo could barely play the game of basketball. Diallo did not play much at KU. Diallo never won games for KU. KU never depended on Diallo. Diallo was not a footer.
Doke starts.
Doke is a cornerstone.
KU depends on Doke.
Doke scores lots of points.
Doke is a footer.
DOKE probably will be DRAFTED END OF THIS SEASON, IF HE WANTS TO BE.
It’s up to Doke.
Nope
Why was Diallo drafted?
Because he was dumb enough to throw caution to the wind and stay in the draft. He was supposed to be an oad. The people in Dialo's corner led him the wrong direction. Doke has been at KU longer and trusts Self more than Diallo ever did. He will stay because he has a bond with returning players and trusts his coaches more than his handlers.
I don’t think Doke would be drafted. Cheick actually had some skill: he could really run and actually had a shooting stroke. Plus great length. Totally different other than they’re both African.
I've mentioned this before. Nobody has bitten on it. Is Doke really a footer? He doesn't look it to me at all. Closer to 6'9. And if he isn't dunking he plays closer to 6'7. I assume it's cause he's heavy. Although he has done tremendous work with that and will continue to if he sticks around.
Doke will be drafted, if he wants to be, because he can start, and guard the post, and score over 20 points in games, and runs the floor like a gazelle. Doke has to be at least a couple inches taller than Diallo. Doke can actually play basketball!
Okay well I guess we will see. I stand behind a solid NO WAY
@cragarhawk last time he was measured for a camp he was 6’11.5 with a 7’5 wingspan. So yeah, he’s large.
If Udoka is a 20 point scorer in the NBA I’ll eat my shoes. He’s also not a good rebounder or shot blocker yet. Those are going to be key if he wants any future in the NBA.
@FarmerJayhawk really, I’d like to see that measurement. I agree with @cragarhawk Doke isn’t 7 foot tall. Cole was listed as 6’11 but measured 6’9 at the draft. I’d guess Doke is closer to 6’9 than 7 foot.
I cannot recall any KU big under Self having been later to be found to be as tall as listed.
I have assumed from the start he was not a footer unless he later grew into one. He appears maybe 6-10 in non KU inches to me, but I have not seen any group photos this season that would permit one to do anything but guess. Have you?
@FarmerJayhawk I wouldn’t trust that plus it says 6’11 lol
I agree he will eventually be drafted at his wish for the NBA. He can definitely play professionally next year somewhere if he wanted to do that. Right now I don't see him on any mock drafts. Vick, Svi, & Graham are the on them, however.
@jaybate-1.0 I admit I haven't seen anything in that format. But truthfully of you're comparing to other players who are incorrectly listed also does it really help? Lol.
I'm just trying to compare him to what else I see on the floor I guess. Which I admit is also probably not legitimate.
@kjayhawks why wouldn’t you? Just because you disagree with it? 6’11.5” plus a 7’5 wingspan is legit size for a center at any level.
Ok @FarmerJayhawk we’LL see what the NBA officially lists him at when he goes buddy. No one said he isn’t good sized.
6’11.5” in shoes is shorter than I thought, but the wingspan is very impressive.
@kjayhawks works for me. We’ll see how close Hoop Summit is. For the record, Nike and the NBA had Cheick at 6’9. They both had JoJo at 7’. And Cliff at 6’8. But I’m sure you’re right, they decided to fudge Udoka and just Udoka.
I have stood shoulder to shoulder with Doke. I am 6’ 1” and the top of my head is basically level with the top of his shoulders. He is one big dude! I am looking at the picture as I type this and it still makes me smile. I’d post it if I was smart enough.
Diallo defamation. He might sue.
6’11.5” was in 2015 also. I thought someone claimed he grew a couple of inches, but those may be the KU inches.
Mandela Effect or Mengele Effect at work regarding KU not overstating heights of bigs?
Skulls!!!
I still think he goes. Self certainly recruited accordingly
Agreed.
HighEliteMajor said:
Diallo defamation. He might sue.
—————————-
Diallo = a good prospect at KU.
Doke = a better one.
IMHO.
Fwiw, Doke isn’t on Sam Vecenie’s top 100. Other notables: Graham is at 37, Billy at 60, Svi at 67, Vick at 81.
Sure, he is 7 feet. And he makes FTs in practice, too. And if you just wish hard enough, Santa will bring you a car next Christmas.
mayjay said:
Sure, he is 7 feet. And he makes FTs in practice, too. And if you just wish hard enough, Santa will bring you a car next Christmas.
Preston's car came early.
mayjay said:
Sure, he is 7 feet. And he makes FTs in practice, too. And if you just wish hard enough, Santa will bring you a car next Christmas.
Just a half inch off. Not like that makes a difference. He still clanks them in practice too.
jaybate 1.0 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
Diallo defamation. He might sue.
—————————-
Diallo = a good prospect at KU.
Doke = a better one.
IMHO.
I think your opinion is right. Doke is very skilled near the basket. Still underrated skills in my opinion. Beyond that, nothing outstanding. But being very skilled near the basket is more than enough to have a 15 year NBA career. I agree with @BeddieKU23 ... I think he turns pro.
New Givony mock has Graham at 37, Svi at 47, and that’s it
I hope he returns for the record. I don't think he's even close to prepared to be a professional.
FarmerJayhawk said:
New Givony mock has Graham at 37, Svi at 47, and that’s it
No Vick huh? That didn't take long. Can See Newman's stock starting to creep up if he continues this stretch into February
@BeddieKU23 I don't think he is ready either. But I think he will go. NBA drafts on potential and I think his combination of size, quick feet, and touch (though unrefined) will be enough.
I hope I am wrong.
Hawk8086 said:
@BeddieKU23 I don't think he is ready either. But I think he will go. NBA drafts on potential and I think his combination of size, quick feet, and touch (though unrefined) will be enough.
I hope I am wrong.
It's never an exact science interpreting who's going and staying especially at KU. We have seen just about everything in the Self Era with guys leaving early.
Doke is still so young and I honestly don't see him making an NBA team next season taking everything into consideration. However here I am still expecting him to leave at season's end based mostly on gut feeling. And Self certainly recruited transfers and HS prospects in preparation of him leaving. If he returns I'll be ecstatic. Despite not being on draft boards, the NCAA Tournament (if KU makes a deep run) and a potential combine invite after the season are important factors to watch going forward with him. Right now its just best to enjoy him while we have him (besides his FT's).
FarmerJayhawk said:
I don’t think Doke would be drafted. Cheick actually had some skill: he could really run and actually had a shooting stroke. Plus great length. Totally different other than they’re both African.
This. Diallo and Doke are very different players. I also think Self made a mistake not playing Diallo. @HighEliteMajor
Statmachine said:
Okay well I guess we will see. I stand behind a solid NO WAY
I'm afraid this will be difficult to clarify, if he does not declare for the draft.
I am conditioning his being drafted on whether or not he decides to opt to be drafted.
If he does not opt to be drafted, we will not know for sure either way, why he decided that way.
But I am fine with you guessing hewill not be drafted and me guessing he probably would be drafted, if he were to opt to turn pro.
Rock Chalk!
FarmerJayhawk said:
New Givony mock has Graham at 37, Svi at 47, and that’s it
One of the things maybe to keep in mind in the mock drafts is how many players in the Top 100 are wind up with Nike schools and how many wind up with adidas schools. It has been reputed at times that roughly 80% of the top 100 players from which a large amount of draftees ultimately come from play for programs and coaches contracted to Nike in the summer leagues. Let's assume something similar proportion of Nike schools vs. adidas schools.
If you are running a mock draft, whose good side would you rather be on by ranking their players more highly? Nike, or adidas?
If you are are running a mock draft, whose good side would your rather be on by NOT ranking some of their players? Nike,m or adidas?
Just a question that occurred to me to ask.
It does seem at least hypothetically possible that bias could creep into mock rankings, though I have never researched that issue.
@jaybate-1.0 Yep
At this point I doubt Udoka would be drafted. As much as he has progressed, his basketball IQ and understanding of the game still need a lot of work and one additional year of college would help fill the blanks; the scouts have seen enough of him to know he still is a work in progress. Diallo is a different story, scouts did no see enough if him to evaluate how green he was and a a result, eventhough he has done well in the G League, his playing time with the Pelicans has been minimal and I imagine he will be traded or released at the end of his contract. Unlike players like Arthur and Aldrich that have proven they can play and are kept as insurance, Diallo has not yet shown he can play at that level.
Remember how hard it was for Svi to not enter the draft last year? He was def. not even close to a predicted 1st rounder. Players will leave before their stock peaks. Who knows what they have being whispered in their ears. Sad! I hope Doke stays.
BucknellJayhawk3 said:
Remember how hard it was for Svi to not enter the draft last year? He was def. not even close to a predicted 1st rounder. Players will leave before their stock peaks. Who knows what they have being whispered in their ears. Sad! I hope Doke stays.
Svi also got hurt during the combine which was extremely bad luck. He did the smart thing. We'll see at season's end what happens with Doke. A combine invite for him would probably end his KU career
Svi and Dok have the benefit of being young for their respective classes. Svi will graduate this year and turn 21 in early June. Azubuike will turn 19 in mid-September. That means that even if he comes back to KU in the fall, Azubuike could still get drafted before his twentieth birthday, and still having been at Kansas for three years.
It isn't so much years in college as it is age. Take Josh Jackson. He was at KU for only one year, but he will turn 21 in just a couple of weeks. Svi is younger than Jackson, but will have spent 4 years at KU. Azubuike arrived at KU with Jackson, but is thirty months younger than Josh Jackson!
Age is what matters most. And for those that care, here are the birth dates of each of the players in KU's incoming class, including Silvio even though he's already on campus.
Silvio De Sousa - October 7, 1998
Devon Dotson - August 2, 1999
David McCormack - July 2, 1999
Quentin Grimes - May 8, 2000
Look at that list again, think about the argument I just made, and you understand why I am so excited about Grimes' potential. Here are the birth dates of every player ranked in the top 10 in next year's class (Grimes is currently 8 on ESPN):
Barrett - June 14, 2000
Williamson - July 6, 2000
Reddish - September 1, 1999
Bol - November 16, 1999
Langford - October 25, 1999
Johnson - October 11, 1999
Simons - June 8, 1999
Grimes - May 8, 2000
Bazley - June 12, 2000
Little - February 11, 2000
Coaches and evaluators are discovering that age matters quite a bit. Zion Williamson, for instance, is a big, strong kid, and he doesn't turn 18 until this summer. Yes, he's an undersized PF, but how often are you going to run into a 6-6, 270 pound 17 year old that is both strong and agile like he is? That's why he's ranked so high. That's why Grimes keeps moving up. That type of athleticism at 17 is impressive because those kids are still growing and getting stronger naturally, without even considering work in the weight room or on the court.
On the other hand, a kid like Silvio, if he's going to play at the next level, really only has two more years at KU to develop. That's why he was eager to re-classify. He turns 20 this fall. He's probably leaving KU after the 2020 season either way. McCormack is probably on that same path. Same with Dotson.
If Grimes doesn't have the season he's hoping for, though, he could be back. He will turn just 19 next spring. He could legitimately be the #1 pick as a 20 year old leaving as a sophomore if he isn't a high lottery selection, although he talent probably makes him a lottery pick next summer anyway.
Some evaluators are even starting to sort players in tiers, then sorting those tiers by age, then ranking the younger players higher, because if you show me two kids that are equally skilled, but one just turned 15 last month, and the other turns 17 in six months, even if they are both sophomores, the younger kid is better by default because he's more than a year younger in actual age, regardless of classification.
That's why I have said Grimes is a top 5 talent in his class for a while now. If you consider him almost equal to Langford and Simons, you are quickly reminded that Langford is more than six months older, and Simons is eleven months older! Cam Reddish is nine full months older than Quentin Grimes!
That's a head start for each of those guys, and yet Grimes is basically right on their heels from a skill and athleticism standpoint, even though each of those guys was probably almost ready to start crawling, or already crawling, the day Grimes was born. That matters.
If Grimes was 6'6 ish he'd be in the top 5 IMO. Where he's at currently, he has a decision to make soon about his position after College. I wonder if he's still growing given how young he is. Such an exciting talent
Grimes' best future is moving to PG. He can be either just another wing guy, but that should be his fall back position. His goal should be to be an all star PG. He can pass and handle well enough to play the point, and as he moves up and plays with better teammates, his scoring demands will become more reasonable.
justanotherfan said:
Grimes' best future is moving to PG. He can be either just another wing guy, but that should be his fall back position. His goal should be to be an all star PG. He can pass and handle well enough to play the point, and as he moves up and plays with better teammates, his scoring demands will become more reasonable.
I agree with that I see him as a pro PG. If that's his goal he'll want to show off that ability at KU despite Dotson being brought in as well. I'm so excited for that guard duo next season.