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BOLD PREDICTIONS
Aug 13, 2018 07:58 PM #1

Here are mine...feel free to add yours...

  • McCormack is just as good as Silvio, and will play more than we think.

  • Charlie Moore will get 20 minutes, and be one of our leaders.

  • Dedric will be our leading rebounder, and our most effective defender. Coach will get him to quit shooting the old man turnaround, and his 3 point % is over 37%.

  • Doke will shoot over 80% from the field, and over 60% from the line.

  • Vick will be top 5 in the nation in 3 point %, and will a model of good behavior, and will actually be one of our leaders.

  • Our best player will be Quentin Grimes, and he will avg 20 ppg.

  • The team will be the best defensive team in the past 10 years, and will not give up 90 points in a game the entire year.

  • We win our 15th straight B12 title, and win the national championship.

Aug 14, 2018 03:25 AM #2

I'm excited about Vick, I just don't see top 5 3 point percentage. Other than that I made all the same predictions in my mind!

Aug 14, 2018 03:39 AM #3

@KUSTEVE I like your list.

I think KJ is a player we underestimate, I think he will push Vick at the 3 for minutes.

I'd also like to think that Mitch can do two things for us this year that he wasn't given an opportunity to do last year: hit 3's, and guard the stretch 4.

20 ppg for Grimes? I think that would put him in company with only Frank's senior year and Simien's senior year under Self. He might be our lead scorer, but 20 ppg seems doubtful, especially with the depth of talent on team.

Aug 14, 2018 03:48 AM #4

I'm still not sold on Charlie.

Aug 14, 2018 05:46 AM #5

@KUSTEVE

Pretty good set of predictions. Grimes averaging 20 would be something else considering the current record for a freshman at KU is Wiggins at 17.1 ppg and Jackson averaged 16.3 ppg with Manning somewhere in between.

Aug 14, 2018 12:38 PM #6

@JayHawkFanToo If I say Grimes averages 14.5 ppg, then it's not bold. It's expected. Like the line from Seinfield..."I'm out here, Jerry...and I'm lovin' it"!

Aug 14, 2018 01:52 PM #7

Come on, folks...don't pick on my boldies...add some of your own!!!!!!!

Aug 14, 2018 02:30 PM #8

Bill Self’s rug is actually a magic carpet that will carry us to the Final Four.

Aug 14, 2018 05:07 PM #9

@dylans Fantasy will set you free!

Aug 14, 2018 05:07 PM #10

@KUSTEVE Too much talent for anyone to average 20 and Dedrick will be lead in scoring.

Aug 14, 2018 05:10 PM #11

Come March, Andrea Hudy will douse the team in her secret "call fouls on the other guy" pheromone (codename "Zebra piss") and every team will foul out against us in the tournament leading to expanded classification of controlled substances, but not vacation of the title.

Aug 14, 2018 06:05 PM #12

I also predict that Jaybate will bring back the pro wrestling hold made famous in the 1960s named the "spinning toe hold" ( made famous by Dory Funk Jr ), and apply it on a Nike rep. Then I envision him climbing to the top rope, leaping, and laying down the "Soupbone" on the rep's throat, before pinning him.

Literal Reader Alert: The above scene described might not be a realistic event. Consult your doctor before using.

Aug 14, 2018 09:10 PM #13

Lagerald Vick, all conference.

Aug 14, 2018 11:46 PM #14

Garret will be a pleasant surprise from the 3. In fact, KU will be a good 3 point shooting team.

Aug 15, 2018 01:22 AM #15

I'm still up in the air about KJ. Seems like he has a lot of fans on here. Hey KJ lovers, tell me what you love about KJ...make me a believer.

Aug 15, 2018 04:22 AM #16

@KUSTEVE He’s no Brady Morningstar, but he’ll do.

Aug 15, 2018 06:22 AM #17

@KUSTEVE

How KJ does will depend in part on how Vick does since they will be competing for basically the same SF position, although KJ is more versatile and can also play SG and PF. My guess is if Vick explodes like many of us think he might, this could well end up being his team and then KJ takes over next season; KU has done well with seniors leading the team recently.

Aug 15, 2018 11:45 AM #18

@JayHawkFanToo That's what I was thinking. I went back and looked at his tapes again, and he really moves well, has a nice mid range jumper, hits the glass, and moves really well for being so tall. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if we see Grimes play some point, with Vick at the 2, and KJ at the 3 at times. KJ could be one of our big guns next year. He reminds me of watching Durant the way he moves on the court ( sans the incredible jump shot).

Aug 15, 2018 03:23 PM #19

I keep thinking about your prediction that Dedric is our top rebounder.

I'm not sure where he will be positioned most of the time on the floor. I have the feeling he will be the guy that goes all over the floor on offense, including pulling outside for the trey, but more important, to set high ball screens. My guess... he'll live around the FT line and on out to the top of the key.

That can actually help him rebound if we are hoisting up lots of treys that give off long rebounds.

I see Dedric as a dream "pick and pop" and "pick and roll" big!

Aug 15, 2018 04:19 PM #20

@drgnslayr On defense, I would think he would be in the TROB spot. We haven't had that in a good while. We've had Svi, JJ, and Perry at the 4 the past 5/6 years- not exactly atypical 4s. I would envision Dedric near the rim on defense, with the ability to guard stretch 4s all over the court. He has a much better nose for the ball than Doke, and should be on the other side of the rim opposite Doke. On offense, he'll be all over the court. I am assuming Bill will want to utilize all of this size we have.

Aug 15, 2018 04:41 PM #21

How different is the outcome in the F4 game if Dedrick could been guarding Novas 4? He will be free to roam for O or D board with Doke and Mac down low. Dedrick ave 21 and 11.

Aug 15, 2018 05:55 PM #22

@Fightsongwriter Defensively, we would've been world's better. Offensively, I had no doubt that they would not have been able to play our 3 ballers so tight with Dedric and KJ roaming the court. It will be quite a different ball game when we play them in December, imo.

Aug 15, 2018 06:23 PM #23

My bold prediction is that Doke is going to be 1st Team All Big 12. I have heard very little nationally about him when the upcoming year is being discussed and I have been a bit surprised at how little we are talking about him on this site! I feel that he will average 14, 10 and 3 and will be an absolute beast. The NBA told him quite candidly what he needs to work on and I expect to see those improvements right out of the gate this year. His jump hook will be improved. His FT's will be improved. His nose for the ball on rebounds will be improved. His awareness of how and when to block shots will be improved!!!

Aug 15, 2018 08:27 PM #24

Dedric Lawson 1st team all American.

Doke 2nd team all American

Grimes Big12 freshman of the year

Bill Self National coach of the year

KU will cut down the nets in April.

Aug 15, 2018 08:57 PM #25

Dedric averages a double double- is clearly the man on a talented team.

Charlie leads the team in assists.

Dotson and Grimes- one drafted in top 20, one comes back for soph year.

Next years starters- Charlie, KJ, returning from above, Big Dave and Lightfoot

Aug 15, 2018 09:49 PM #26

@KUSTEVE

KJ adds an element of versatility that most college teams simply do not have. He can punish smaller guys inside, and terrorize bigger guys on the perimeter. At the same time, he's quick enough to handle small guys on the perimeter, but big enough to handle 4s in the post.

He gives KU a distinct advantage on offense (will probably always have a MUA) without giving anything back on the other end, where he will likely never be at a disadvantage.

As for my predictions:

  1. Quentin Grimes averages 13/5/4, but is a first team all conference player based on incredible efficiency, as he shoots 50/40/85.

  2. Dedric is Big 12 POY, again based on startling efficiency, as his numbers don't blow anyone away 15/10/3, but he shoots 55/35/75

  3. Doke shoots over 80%, but is on the bench at crunch time.

  4. KU's crunch time lineup is Dotson-Grimes-Vick-KJ-Dedric

  5. Dotson does not start early in the year, but becomes the starting PG right after Finals.

  6. Vick's averages drop (from 12/5/2 to 10/4/2), but, consistent with the trend above, his efficiency rises as he improves from 49/37/67 to 52/40/70.

  7. KJ Lawson is second team all conference despite not averaging double figures in points or rebounds, and despite not ranking in the conference top 10 in any major statistical category.

  8. Charlie Moore averages more assists than points, as he makes a name for himself feeding Doke, the Lawson brothers, Vick and Grimes off the bench.

  9. Devon Dotson turns heads on the defensive end. With the team having so many weapons, Dotson becomes the tip of the spear on the defensive end, leading the team in steals and playing the type of defense we haven't seen since Russell Robinson.

  10. Marcus Garrett shoots better from three (around 33%), but plays limited minutes.

Aug 15, 2018 09:49 PM #27

@JayhawksandChill Next year's starting lineup: Dotson/Charlie/KJ/ Mitch/ Big Dave. Or, Dotson/KJ/Hurt/JRE/Big Dave. Or, Charlie/Dotson/Garrett/unknown freshman/ Dave. BTW, Big Dave is killing it on his overseas trip:

http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/aug/15/ku-freshman-david-mccormack-nearly-avera/ ↗

Aug 15, 2018 09:55 PM #28

@justanotherfan Great stuff. I am definitely warming to KJ. Can you imagine how tough our perimeter defense will be with Dotson, Marcus, and KJ? They will flat get after people, and our huge front line will allow us to play the intense pressure defense on the perimeter that Russ and the gang played in their national championship march. No more Arizona St/Nova throw downs like last year.

Aug 15, 2018 10:19 PM #29

@KUSTEVE

Don't underestimate Grimes, either. With him having more talent around him, he will be able to exert more energy on defense without having to worry about trying to score 50 points a night.

The defense should be nasty.

Aug 18, 2018 05:50 AM #30

@KUSTEVE

ROTF!!

Aug 18, 2018 05:55 AM #31

@KUSTEVE

I’m intrigued with McCormack, too.

QGrime too high at 20, unless he grows a trey.

Vick will be a major force.

My guess is Silvio is the super Nova if there is one.

Aug 18, 2018 05:58 AM #32

I keep hoping Hudy and PTs and OTs have worked on Doke’s arm to give him the strength and control to develop a coordinated, efficient shooting motion. If they have, he will join KU’s list of great centers.

Aug 18, 2018 12:29 PM #33

@jaybate-1.0 yep.

I predict something happens at some point in the season: injury, ineligibility , something with our starters, and Silvio goes off.

Aug 19, 2018 01:46 PM #34

@jaybate-1.0 Grimes is an astonishing talent- he might be the best OAD yet. Even if he doesn't hit 20 a game, I have no doubt he will be one of two overall leading scorers, along with Dedric.

The guy I am probably overlooking in all this is Marcus Garrett. If the Townsend magic works on Garrett's 3 point shot the way it has worked with others, then we truly have a lethal weapon. Cause Garrett is damn good in every phase of the game EXCEPT shooting. If he solves that riddle, we're talking a 4 year guy who is All Conference his junior yr, with a shot at All American his senior year. I noticed in the summer scrimmages that he's been driving the ball to the rim with authority, with a quickness I haven't seen since Tayshawn. Watching him, Dotson, and Grimes attack the basket will be something else.

Aug 19, 2018 03:03 PM #35

@KUSTEVE

Great news about Garrett’s driving. He was kind of a blank slate waiting to be written on offensively. KU’s staff has a good record of finding ways for guys to offend that helps both them and the team. Occasional failures but mostly successes.

Controversial Hunch: Vick still being sharply underestimated. Self had him playing the domestique role last season and he got in a funk about it, but played the role well when positive. Guys that have done this role for Self as underclassmen have tended to have large senior seasons, even despite stormy stretches of impatient youth the next to last season. Look at it this way: Vick started and did pretty much everything one can do for a team as domestique for a Final Four team. He is a gifted athlete who has been in the toughening box. He has had an off season to work on his dribbling. Self may play OADs so as to get more OADs, but Self could give the keys to the Ferrari to Vick and know he could run LeMans and win. You know Self. He can play Charlie and Garrett with Dotson and Grimes, or he can play Vick 30, who has started in a Final Four with them, and rotate Garrett with known defense and a drive for 20 and rotate Charlie for all of them to keep ball handling as needed.

I see a starting perimeter of Vick, Grimes and Dotson if Dotson can handle D1 speed and violence, else Garrett.

I know folks doubt Vick’s dribbling/passing at point, but he is the best perimeter player on the team and, like Tyshawn once upon a time, offers an unparalleled MUA in athleticism/height/speed tradeoff in D1.

If Self can believe in Vick’s Head, which is probably hard for Self, Self has a championship perimeter to go with his flock of six bigs.

I believe Self, the river boat gambler, as Slayr calls him, will let it all ride on Vick at point to start. Even if Vick crapped out early, it would buy development time for the newbies.

Vick is ripe for the role.

And Self tends to try to scheme to get his five most talented guys that are sufficiently developed on the floor as starters.

Vick is one of those three perimeter guys out of the gate.

Self has to ride him, or spend a season with every guy on the team knowing the team could be better.

Self won’t let that happen.

Self’s only viable alternative is to give the keys to Grimes or Dotson and pray for instant maturity (and low TOS), which even Mario Chalmers, Josh Jackson, and Josh Selby lacked to be given the keys as frosh, and let Vick play the wing.

Don’t see Self doing this first half season except for development stretches against weak teams.

Vick fails the eye test for many, because he looks a little crazed with the stare and the hair. He also looked a little awkward ball handling, because he was obviously more overwhelmed doing all the chores than was Devonte before him, who made domestique look so easy Devonte’s junior season.

But I argue that, except for Vick’s funk (and its a rare KU player that doesn’t have one under Self’s relentless needle) and short trey slump, Vick did the domestique role as well, or better, than Devonte otherwise.

Vick is a right tail character, if you will. Most fans hate uniqueness, when it comes down to point guards. They will tolerate and even relish freaks elsewhere, but they want the eye test passed at point. Fans struggled with Tyshawn and Elijah, because both failed the eye test and legacy expectation of how the position “should” be played. They over focused on both those players’ traditional deficiencies and underestimated the benefits of their unorthodoxies.

But here is the proof in the pudding. KU crapped out in March with eye test orthodoxies, like Devonte and Frank, same as it crapped out with eye test unorthodoxies, like Tyshawn and Elijah.

I grew up with racial eye tests that said you couldnt start five blacks and win a ring. You couldn’t start a black point guard unless he was super human like Oscar Robertson. I grew up with eye tests saying Magic was too tall for point guard. I grew up with eye tests saying Bird couldn’t make it in the NBA because he was white and couldn’t jump.

I. DON’T. BELIEVE. IN. EYE. TESTS.

Vick is like many unorthodox talents. His flaws are used as evidence he cannot get better and do what his team needs.

This team needs Vick to lead it AND be point guard to become the best team it can be, or else Vick needs to have the greatest season a KU wing ever had and pray Grimes or Dotson can mature and protect and distribute instantly. No one else can make KU as good as Vick at point could make it.

Most are sure Vick can’t do it, same as most were sure Tyshawn and Elijah couldn’t do it. But Tyshawn and Elijah both led KU to titles and post season, same as Frank and Devonte did.

Vick da man!

He is about to learn what real loneliness is. He thinks being viewed as weird is bad. He thinks not being accepted is bad.

But just ask Devonte, or Frank, or Tyshawn, or Elijah, or Sherron, or Marcus, or Brandon, or anyone given the keys, when KU is down 14 with ten to go on an opponent’s floor and no teammate can hit shit, or find a weakness in his match up, or stop their best guy. Ask them how lonely it is when you take the ball and begin the long grind back everyone doubts can be made. Ask them how lonely it is when you come up short and have to face the reporters and your teammates are all showering and your coach’s eyes are saying: it’s on you dude. You wanted the keys. I can’t play for you. It’s your team. Find a way to make it work—to make them believe again.

Aug 19, 2018 06:59 PM #36

@jaybate-1.0 I envision Vick with a different role, simply because we have 3...possibly 4 skill sets on the perimeter that are already developed at the point, and Bill is always going to try to utilize what he has, unless he doesn't have it ( EJ...Nadiir). KJ is way too tall, and although his handles are not bad for a 6'7" guy, I think bringing up the ball, setting the offense, dribbling out of traps etc might not put his best foot forward. That leaves Grimes, Charlie, and Dotson as our primary ball handlers. Grimes could play point for us right now, but he most likely won't. He's too good off the ball to load him down with the point responsibilities. That leaves Charlie and Dotson. Both are tailor made for pg. Dotson is very well coached, and considered to be a very good defender. His bugaboo is outside shooting, which will be a point of emphasis, I'm sure. Charlie will surprise a lot of people on here. You take a tough Chicago kid with a chip on his shoulder, and we could see shades of the good Sherron....although the defense might not be as good as a Dotson.

The wildcard for me at point isn't Vick...the wildcard is Marcus Garrett. Garrett was running point in summer scrimmages, and looked pretty damn good, imo. Not saying he's going to start at point, but if Dotson isn't ready, and Charlie starts flinging shots up all over the place playing hero ball, Marcus made all state playing the point. If he gets his trey % up, maybe Marcus finds some minutes at the point. Coach will figure out a way to get Marcus in the game, and this might be a way to give him 5+ extra minutes.

My thoughts with Vick are he is such an offensive weapon, it would a crime to put him at point, even if he could probably technically play there. You have a 3 baller deluxe, who is used on plays to jump practically out of the gym on lobs. He is our zone buster in the middle of the lane, and he can drive and rock the rim in a twitch. And there is no doubt Vick is our best outside bomber. That said, Vick doesn't shoot 3s off the dribble- he is a set shooter. He has to be fed. To me, he's simply too good an offensive weapon to burden him with trying to run the team. I think him and KJ share the 3 spot, with Vick also splitting with Garrett the available minutes at the 2 when Grimes is out of the game.

Aug 19, 2018 08:13 PM #37

@KUSTEVE

Garrett would be a good investment at point because he will be at KU for two years. Vick, Grimes and Dotson will all be gone in one. But he is at least a year away developmentwise. So: it still comes down to choosing between Grimes, Dotson and Vick for a starting PG to get the best 5 for stArters. I could see Garrett bumping Dotson one season at non PG

Aug 19, 2018 09:20 PM #38

Bold prediction: Kansas football wins its first road game this decade this season.

Aug 19, 2018 09:40 PM #39

@jaybate-1.0 I don't see Dotson going to the NBA for at least two years. Such is life for the short guys.

Aug 19, 2018 10:45 PM #40

@KUSTEVE

At this point I would think that Moore will start at PG although Dotson might take over as the season progresses; either way, both will take the bulk of the time. In a pinch or when a taller PG is needed, I can see Grimes playing PG; he did extremely well playing the position at the U19 tournament and Coach Self would have no problem having him play the position. Next, it would be Garret who already has PG experience. Pretty decent depth for the position and I just don’t see Vick running point but likely sliding to the SG when needed.

Aug 19, 2018 11:02 PM #41

@KUSTEVE

Then there’s no way Dotson will be good enough to start and Self really only signed 1 OAD.

I’m ok with that assessment. Garrett might likely start ahead of him.

Vick still da man for me at pg.

Aug 19, 2018 11:09 PM #42

@jaybate-1.0 @KUSTEVE thank you both for the food for thought about Vick or Garrett at point. I had not really thought about it... But if either could do it well... Look out! :muscle_tone3:

Aug 20, 2018 05:23 AM #43

@approxinfinity

We are both doing some envelope stretching.

It could be Charlie at PG, because of chemistry, orthodoxy, years remaining at KU, and Self being able to go two deep at both the wing spots with Charlie and Dotson at point.

But Self has a history of breaking from orthodoxy to get a scheme that gets his best 5 on the floor and his best 7 in March. It all depends on whether his best five can mesh via unorthodoxy and play best, or whether an orthodox 5 with less ability can play best?

Self will surely explore both paths, because he just has not shown a willingness to go long bench with an 8-10 man rotation in March, even when he has had that kind of depth in the past.

He will long bench through February to keep everyone happy, but the close games against good teams will reveal which 5 and 7 will the path decided on for March.

Aug 20, 2018 05:59 AM #44

@jaybate-1.0

Moore might start ahead of him but Dotson is plenty capable of taking over the position by the time conference play starts. Grimes played PG under Self for the USA Team in the U19 Tournament and he was the MVP of the tournament; he will likely play PG in the NBA and would certainly play PG ahead of Vick and so would Garret who was the HS Gatorade POY in Texas playing as PG. Highly unlikely Vick plays PG, he is the best returning 3 point shooter and likely will play like he did last season positioning himself in the corner for open 3s or driving the baseline for layups or dunks.

Aug 20, 2018 07:56 AM #45

@JayHawkFanToo

The trouble is Garrett isn’t ready for the keys, he’s not an option developmentally.

Dotson probably won’t be ready for the keys all season either, unless he’s more special than Devonte, Frank, Tyshawn, Elijah, Sherron, Chalmers and RussRob. The chance of Dotson being better than all those guys, since he is not penciled as an OAD, seems slim.

This brings us back to Vick and Charlie. Charlie is an orthodox choice that has played a year of D1 and matured a year sitting. But Charlie is just no where near the athlete, defender, driver, or 3 pt shooter that Vick is.

Vick has the experience of backing up Devonte at PG and of sharing bringing the ball up on a Final Four team. He was clearly being groomed for PG duty, until he apparently failed to commit and Self signed Dotson.

Vick at PG is who you swing for the fence with—who you risk everything on at PG to hold MUA at PG every game of the tourney to try to win a ring.

Charlie is who you compromise with hoping Dotson will mature into a solid, very talented 20 mpg backup to Charlie (like Sherron was for RussRobb) and hope Grimes and Vick make 39% from trey and you ride your bigs. It’s the conservative play unless Grimes, Doke, and Dedrick are a murderers row like Chalmers/Rush/Shady. Dotson also has to be willing to stay a second season to make it work also.

A perimeter of PG Vick, 3 Grimes, and 2 Garrett/Dotson would be unstoppable in D1. It would likely hold MUA every game at all spots.

Rings or titles?

Which does Self want to play for?

Aug 20, 2018 02:04 PM #46

@jaybate-1.0

Vick did not play PG last season at all. Graham was the primary PG and averaged almost 38 mpg and when he was not playing PG, his primary back up was Newman and even Svi would bring the ball up the court occasionally as did Garret but not Vick. If Vick would have shown any potential to play PG, Coach Self would not have played Devonte as much as he did.

Take a look at the Dotson videos, he is one of the faster if not the fastest PG in a recent memory. He might not be a OAD (but he could well be) but perhaps a TAD. If one of those two is not available, Grimes would be the next choice; he played PG for the U19 National team coached by Self and he made the All-Tournament team and was named the Tournament MVP. Grimes is perhaps the most complete and ready to the next level play KU has had in a long time.

The backcourt will be primarily Moore, Dotson Grimes and Garret and Vick will share time with K. J. at the wing/SF and he might slide to SG when they are both in the same lineup, depending on matchups but I just don’t see Vick playing PG at all when there is a better role for him and 4 quality player available and better suited to the PG position.

Aug 20, 2018 02:29 PM #47

KUSTEVE said:

@jaybate-1.0 I don't see Dotson going to the NBA for at least two years. Such is life for the short guys.

There was an excellent article ↗ last week addressing just that - that the NBA's smallest guys are getting bigger, making it tougher for smaller guys to succeed in the pros.

That's also bad news for the career prospects of a guy like Frank Mason, who is certainly on the small side for an NBA player. According to the article I linked to, 6-2.25 is the average size for an NBA PG.

Dotson is listed as either 6-1 or 6-2, depending on who you read, so likely a little below average size for an NBA PG. That doesn't mean he can't make it in the NBA. It does mean that it will be that much more of a challenge for him to make it in the NBA.

Aug 20, 2018 03:07 PM #48

@justanotherfan He'll have to develop a trey gun to go to the pros. Everything else is right there. I think he'll play a ton this year.

Aug 20, 2018 03:19 PM #49

@JayHawkFanToo

Vick rested Graham during play many times a game, same as Devonte used to do for Frank. Vick also initiated from wing point, same as Devonte used to do for Frank. Next.

Aug 20, 2018 03:28 PM #50

@KUSTEVE

5 star/OADs have to be given 20mpg and start, or there is recruiting blowback downstream, so Dotson WILL likely get 20 mpg somewhere. It’s a much bigger step to 30-35 mpg with the keys. Odds are he won’t make that next step, unless he is an OAD type, or willing to commit to two seasons. Self has to groom someone for PG for the following season, as he always does, by either giving him 15-20 mpg, as a backup PG, or by starting him as a domestique at the two.

Aug 20, 2018 04:17 PM #51

@jaybate-1.0

We must have watched different games. :smile:

More to the point, why would Coach Self play Vick at the PG when he has 4 player, 5 if you count K. J., that have proven they can play PG? Is not like he need to groom Vick for next season, right?

Aug 20, 2018 04:31 PM #52

The PG rotation is Dotson/Moore (or Moore/Dotson if you prefer) followed by Grimes and Garrett (probably in that order).

The wing rotation is Grimes, Vick, KJ, Garrett, Agbaji, mixed and matched to your preference.

The big rotation is Dedric, Doke, KJ, De Sousa, Big Dave, Mitch, also mixed and matched to your preference.

Agbaji is probably the odd man out on the perimeter. Mitch is probably odd man out inside.

That gives us a rotation of Moore, Dotson, Grimes, Vick, Garrett, KJ, Dedric, Doke, De Sousa, with Big Dave getting spot minutes inside, and either Garrett or one of the PGs getting short minutes on the perimeter.

Aug 20, 2018 04:40 PM #53

@justanotherfan

Agreed. The only one I have a question mark is Lightfoot. If you saw video of summer practice/scrimmages, he has been hitting the 3 extremely well and might move from being the odd man out to the ace in the hole.

Aug 20, 2018 04:42 PM #54

@JayHawkFanToo We're going to need two basketballs. How Bill is going to manage minutes will be flat crazy.

Aug 20, 2018 09:07 PM #55

JayHawkFanToo said:

@jaybate-1.0

We must have watched different games. :smile:

More to the point, why would Coach Self play Vick at the PG when he has 4 player, 5 if you count K. J., that have proven they can play PG? Is not like he need to groom Vick for next season, right?

We watched the same games. You’re just struggling squaring what you saw with what you want to believe. 😀

Outside of avoiding OAD blow back, why would Self start anyone but Vick, who is the only one with even intermittent experience running the team for 30+ games and a deep run in the Carney giving Devonte 5-10 mpg on floor rests?

If it weren’t for recruiting blowback risk with putting Dotson behind Vick (or anyone else), we prolly wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

Remember how long it has taken UK OAD 1s to get the hang of D1 running Cal’s high school offense? And you’re not saying the 5-11 Dotson is the equivalent of John Wall, or the other UK OAD 1s, right? Or are you? In any case, there is a little more to Self ball than hop, skip and jump at UK.

Why do you insist on putting this crazy level of expectation and responsibility on Dotson. He’s a good recruit deserving of a chance to develop. Cut him some slack.

For Self to start and play Dotson 30-35 mpg this season, it looks like Self would have to kiss his conference title run goodbye.

Best case for Dotson seems a 20/20 split with Charlie.

But man, why settle for that when you can have a proven D1 guy Self has been grooming for PG for 2-3 years for 30-40 mpg? Except for his funk stretch, Vick was often almost as much of a man of steel as Devonte.

I just don’t see any logic in your thinking here at all. And I’ve tried hard to see what you might be thinking.

Not saying Self won’t compromise and go the 20/20 with Charlie and Dotson to avoid OAD blowback and play just to win another conference title, while hoping 6 bigs lets him foul and defend his way to 30+ Ws.

Saying I can’t find even a micron fiber’s width shred of logic to your position.

No offense though.

Just saying, as you like to just say.

😀

Aug 21, 2018 05:29 AM #56

@jaybate-1.0

First, every publication I have seen and the KU website list Dotson as 6’2” not 5’11” as you wrote.

Second, I have yet to find any publication that indicates Vick ever played or will play PG at KU, he didn’t play that position before and now, with 4 players capable of playing PG, he will not play that position this season either; he will get decent minutes as SG or wing but not nearly as many as he did last season with a serious undermanned team. See @justanotherfan post above, he lists the same 4 players I did as playing PG as do all publication I read. Maybe you can find one that backs your point?

Third, I did not say Dotson will play 30 mpg; in fact, I indicated that Moore will likely start the season at the PG although Dotson might as the season progresses. Dedric and Grimes are the only players that might play 30 mpg, all the rest will have to share playing time.

Aug 21, 2018 05:46 AM #57

@JayHawkFanToo

KU inches.

Next.

What did Vick do all last season, while Devonte was resting on the floor? Did KU somehow magically operate on mental telepathy from Devonte, or Self?

Next.

Why do you persist in this antic endeavor of pretending Vick was not doing the domestique 2 guard role same as Devonte did and same as Frank did before taking over the point? Are you really trying to make yourself think he didn’t? Why? It’s such an odd thing to try to make yourself think—such an odd disconnect. Vick has on the job training and grooming of the kind that Frank, a 2 in high school, and Devonte a 1 in high school, received the years before they took over the point. Heck, add Tyshawn. Add Elijah. You appear waaaaaaaaaay out there on this. “Aw, how does it feel, with no direction home, like a rollin’ Stone...” It feels a little strange to me, but I want to be as supportive as I can be. It’s the off season after all.

Aug 21, 2018 06:35 AM #58

jaybate 1.0 said:

@JayHawkFanToo

KU inches

ESPN, Rivals, Scout, Sports Illustrated and every ranking publication list him ad 6’2”

Next.

What did Vick do all last season, while Devonte was resting on the floor? Did KU somehow magically operate on mental telepathy from Devonte, or Self?

He parked himself at the corner waiting for a pass from Newman (who was the primary
PG backup or Garret or Svi to hit the open 3 or drive the baseline for a layup or dunk or cut for an alley oop.The one exception was the Washington game where he parked himself at the top of the key to take advantage of the Washington extended defense that left the paint open; he scored 28 points.

Next.

Why do you persist in this antic endeavor of pretending Vick was not doing the domestique 2 guard role same as Devonte did and same as Frank did before taking over the point? Are you really trying to make yourself think he didn’t? Why? It’s such an odd thing to try to make yourself think—such an odd disconnect. Vick has on the job training and grooming of the kind that Frank, a 2 in high school, and Devonte a 1 in high school, received the years before they took over the point. Heck, add Tyshawn. Add Elijah. You appear waaaaaaaaaay out there on this. “Aw, how does it feel, with no direction home, like a rollin’ Stone...” It feels a little strange to me, but I want to be as supportive as I can be. It’s the off season after all.

The reason he did not is because he is NOT a PG, he is not even a combo guard. He is a SG/wing. When Devonte was not directing the team, Newman was.

Next.

I see you still cannot find even one article, analysis or publication that backs up your claim. Until you find something...anything to back up your claim you will have to argue with yourself.

Aug 21, 2018 12:32 PM #59

@jaybate-1.0 I love you, man...but Vick has never played point guard.

Aug 21, 2018 12:35 PM #60

@KUSTEVE Makes it a bold prediction I suppose. Funny how some won’t make any predticitions, but are quick to shoot them down.

Aug 21, 2018 12:41 PM #61

UK’s team melts down after an early season loss to KU destroys their fragile psyche.

KU’s continued dominance of the Big12 gets at least one coach fired and brings about apathy at 3 other schools.

Kansas will hand Iowa State it’s keister so bad it’s fans will stop whining and start singing praises of the Jayhawks. (Realizing it’s better to give it your all and lose to the best than to cry about losing to a team you “should’ve beat”)

Higgins will don a KU t-shirt (that he burns on the court at half time)

Aug 21, 2018 12:47 PM #62

@dylans "Kansas will hand Iowa State it’s keister so bad it’s fans will stop whining and start singing praises of the Jayhawks. (Realizing it’s better to give it your all and lose to the best than to cry about losing to a team you “should’ve beat”)"

Yes, this type of adulation of dominant opponents always happens in sports!

Aug 21, 2018 12:48 PM #63

@mayjay :)

Aug 21, 2018 01:55 PM #64

Let's hope Vick has used all of his developing months working on his handles. We don't need him at PG on offense (but he could be our BRush top of key defender in the championship game!).

Imagine if Vick's handles matched his athleticism! Imagine Vick with an explosive first step! Imagine Vick blowing by everyone!

He really needs to improve his handles because he doesn't get to take advantage of his athleticism with the ball because the ball can't keep up with his speed.

Aug 21, 2018 04:58 PM #65

@KUSTEVE

Back at you, he never has played point same as Frank hadn’t. But he did exactly what Tyshawn, Elijah, Frank and Devonte did the year before each took over the point. It’s just a fact.

Aug 21, 2018 05:45 PM #66

@drgnslayr

Of all of KU’s domestiques-both those like Frank and Tyshawn, without high school PG experience, and with it, like Elijah, and Devonte, and Sherron, Vick was most I’ll-suited to the mental flexibility required of the domestique 2 guard role. It was a super challenge for Vick to learn all the other jobs and help roles, and focus on going to iron every possession. The very aspects of Vick’s personal struggles last season are what could make him such a terrific PG with every game MUA on both ends all the way to the finals.

Most are questioning his handles, as they questioned Tyshawn’s. There would be similar growing pains if Vick were given the keys for sure, but there are going to be even bigger growing pains (or structural deficiencies) with all the other PG candidates; that is what everyone is underestimating.

Vick only has to work on his handles. The rest of his game is Final Four tested. The rest of the candidates have vastly more too learn on both ends than Vick does. Further, I suspect his handles only looked limited, because he was being asked to do so much other than handle than he had ever had to before.

All but Devonte among the domestique 2s have struggled with handles juggling at times the diversity of roles of the domestique 2. Except for 5-9 (non KU inches) Charlie, the rest of the point guard candidates have never started for a single season in D1. Marcus Garrett looked more deficient handling the ball last season than Vick. Grimes and Dotson have never played a second, when Blue Meanies were smashing them at D1 speeds. Who knows about their D1 handles? Really, Grimes and Dotson as freshman should be grateful if Self keeps them out of PG duty unless, it’s cup cake time. Garrett at PG? Are people vacationing in OREGON and spending all their time at the stores with green cross flags? Garrett couldn’t really sustain starting at any non PG slot last season. Board rats are just not remembering that starting at PG in highschool is not a free pass to start at PG in D1! And don’t even get me started on the freshmans’ learning curves on defense at point guard.

All of which brings us to Charlie. He has actually played PG for a season. Thus he merits consideration for starting, or backing up. But he is going to be 5-9 on defense every second he is on the floor? Is Charlie an explosive leaper and an unparalleled tough nut like Frank? Can he shoot like Frank? Can he anticipate on defense like Frank? Is the NBA going to find a slot for Charlie, as it has for Frank? Can Charlie bring 3/4s of what Frank and Devonte brought for 30-40 38 minute games? That’s what KU needs from short PGs even just to make good runs in March. Can Charlie seriously step in and meet or beat Frank, because short PGs at KU come up against future NBA PGs inevitably in March. Is everyone positive Charlie can hold his own against guys like KU’s recent point guards and ones drafted higher from UK, Duke, UNC, etc.?

Really, the more I look at Self’s options at PG, the more I think he has to gamble on developing Vick into 20 mpg at PG MINIMUM, if Self wants more than a conference title. It’s scary, because it would be unconventional and Vick doesn’t pass the eye test.

But Vick is the only PG candidate that is an athletic freak with back court FF experience, very good D, decent protection, and a potential 40% trey, ready this season.

I say swing for the ring and rely on 6 bigs an Grimes at 2/3 to cover up Vick’s learning curve.

Aug 21, 2018 07:53 PM #67

@jaybate-1.0 We'll deem it a "BOLD PREDICTION".

Aug 21, 2018 07:53 PM #68

@dylans There ya go.

Aug 22, 2018 01:09 AM #69

Ok, we've narrowed our point guard down to 6 different people...now I'm going blow your mind...

WELCOME TO KU BASKETBALL : HOME OF THE POINT FORWARD !!!

MAY I INTRODUCE OUR NEW POINT FORWARD...DEDRIC LAWSON...

[

Aug 22, 2018 02:03 AM #70

@jaybate-1.0

I enjoyed your lengthy explanation.

I think right now (actually a few months ago) Vick should be focusing on his future. What position can he play at the next level?

His athleticism is nice at the D1 level. I don't think he is anything unique with his athleticism in the NBA. Then size, durability, and skill set really decide if a guy like Vick can play at that level. Then add in aspects like matchups and being fortunate to play for a team where they need his specific potential.

Yes... it would be really something to see Vick mastered in the skills required at PG. PG will always be a position in the NBA where he won't have a size disadvantage.

The one thing I think all of us can agree on... Vick needs to improve his handles. And that then leads to other areas... like being able to create scoring space... like having a blistering crossover move... developed slash moves... All these areas really squeeze into the "handles" tag.

And then there is the question about his hunger. Vick needs to develop more of a "Type A" persona. Maybe it is there already, but masked under other issues... like self-esteem and just needing to grow up more. I do believe he is a very good person and he's had to deal with the same issues most young people have to go through at that age; what is his identity?

One thing I know about him is that we haven't really experienced ANY of his real athleticism! Another thing I know is Bill Self isn't going to stop any young person from going for their dream! If Vick has his mind set on being the next KU PG and makes basketball his 24/7 religion from here on out, who knows?

Aug 22, 2018 03:41 AM #71

@KUSTEVE

I have always liked the idea of point forward, since Bird showed it could be done from 4.

Magic was at times a point forward, depending on who Riles ran with him on the perimeter in LA.

If Dedrick can run the car, give HIM the keys!!!

Aug 22, 2018 03:46 AM #72

@drgnslayr

Vick is a long shot cuz he left for a time.

You’re right about whatever happens with Vick coming down to whether he can develop unity of purpose and get comfortable with mates. His basketball future depends on NOW! He might not be up to the challenge, or Self might not trust him.

But bottom line he has less to learn than anyone but Charlie, and he’s 6-2 or so, not 5-9.

Aug 22, 2018 01:37 PM #73

@jaybate-1.0

I believe this is where Self is probably under-appreciated as a coach.

He left the door open to Vick. He gave him a second chance. This is what Self is all about... his players!

Self checks his ego at the door and focuses on life for his players. This may be his strongest quality as a coach! He mentors players!

I'm not putting expectations on Vick this year. It's all up to him. The sky is the limit, but only Vick can decide his outcome.

And I hope Vick knows Jayhawk fans are there for him, too! No one has given up on him!

Aug 22, 2018 03:39 PM #74

drgnslayr said:

@jaybate-1.0

I believe this is where Self is probably under-appreciated as a coach.

He left the door open to Vick. He gave him a second chance. This is what Self is all about... his players!

Self checks his ego at the door and focuses on life for his players. This may be his strongest quality as a coach! He mentors players!

I'm not putting expectations on Vick this year. It's all up to him. The sky is the limit, but only Vick can decide his outcome.

And I hope Vick knows Jayhawk fans are there for him, too! No one has given up on him!
————————

This should be on the mast head of this site.

In the Boothe Hall.

On the wall of the practice locker room.

At the base of his statue next to Forrest one day.

You have come as near the heart of why I am a KU BASKETBALL fan as I can come here.

Self is a hard man.

He has a relentless needle.

He can finesse most six ways from Sunday.

He puts players in the most difficult out-of-position situations imaginable.

He can be too stubborn.

He can refuse to ever play the deserving and hard working, if another player under another scheme can take the team’s and program’s potential to be their best even a micron more.

He can cut any player, crony, or friend loose, if the team, or program would be better off.

But my how unsparingly fair the man is!!!

My how far he will go for players that he believes the team and program needs.

My how he enables them to get better.

My how he helps those with the necessary talents that commit fully to the team grow in every way possible!!!

My how he does not let TPTB bully him, or break him.

My what resilience he has.

My how willing he is to introduce players to the harsh reality that the world of the have nots faces routine unfairness all the way to the top and survives and excels on commitment and hardwork and synergies of team.

My how he walks the talk that he can’t coach want to and basics after year 1 and that players have to take responsibility.

And my how he gives those giving it everything they’ve got second chances.

But no third chances.

If you can’t learn from mistakes, you may as well not come to Kansas.

Self will drive you till you make them, so you CAN learn from them.

But fail to learn from mistakes and you lack the criterion he looks for and insists on.

Self is clearly annoyed with and finally unwilling to support those that will not learn from mistakes. He realizes some insights and skills take more reps than others to acquire, but in the end Self is a mentor teaching players a hard lesson that is deeply true in life: get better, or get gone.

It results in some players—some jerks, but all some really good guys—that he decides he cannot and will not help. It’s tragic to watch, but there is a tragic dimension to life, whether we like it or not. It is only bearable to watch, because Self does appear to give players their shot. It may not be as big of a shot as we wish, or think some players deserve, but it’s a shot, and in this cold cruel world, how lucky one is to get any shot at all.

(Note: Sam Cunliffe was right. They did not see eye to eye and that’s enough. They were men about it and I am sure they will be men about it. Self could have queered his shot in Evansville and apparently didn’t. Life is about getting and making the most of shots that come along. It takes lots of shots.)

But it has been amazing how many Self HAS helped!!! How many guys no other elite program sniffed at that Self gave a shot and created the conditions for a shot and getting better. Frank Mason is the most successful example, but a guy like Conner Teahan was just as remarkable at a lower level of ceiling. He hung around and hung around as a shooter and then miraculously contributed as a scrambling, indispensible sixth man to a team even shallower than Frank’s that went even deeper than Frank’s. Conner Teahan, when no one but Self believed in him, came to a team’s and a coach’s rescue and enabled it to make a run at a ring all the way to the second half against one of the greatest NCAA teams of all time in 2012. Conner and Frank were just two of many of these improbable successes that Self’s mentoring and development enable. There are many more.

It has been amazing how many guys that did and didn’t pass the eye tests that Self has helped become unexpectedly well rounded contributors to fine teams and helped mature into apparently more well-rounded, effective human beings in the years after; and that is for me the difference between just a winner, and a great coach.

Self is a great coach, at a very tough time to be one.

Go, Bill, go!!!!

Aug 22, 2018 10:16 PM #75

@jaybate-1.0 I assume Dedric will be used in the high post, and he'll be able to hit cutters to the basket, throw it in to Doke, or shoot or drive. it's going to be extremely difficult for teams to defend us. One of my takeaways from that video was watching Dedric carve up the zone. Last year, Vick was stationed in the middle of the lane against zones, and he would shoot that short mid-range jumper. He almost never drove the ball against the zone after receiving that pass because the bigs would collapse on him. Dedric played the same spot against zones, and his great advantage is he can catch that pass, and challenge the bigs at the rim, as well as shoot that short jumper. Being 6'9" has it's advantages.Teams will be in real trouble if they try to zone us.

Aug 22, 2018 10:52 PM #76

@KUSTEVE on the other hand I keep wondering if a zone with Dok in the middle is the key to stopping (slowing down) Zion.

Aug 22, 2018 11:51 PM #77

@dylans earthquake! Massive hit!

Aug 23, 2018 12:05 AM #78

@dylans I don't think Doke can guard Zion unless he comes into the paint. Doke has the brawn, but he doesn't have the foot speed to cover him outside the paint.

Aug 23, 2018 12:23 AM #79

Can Zion stop doke?

Aug 23, 2018 12:42 AM #80

@Crimsonorblue22 Of course not. Nobody in the world can stop him. And if Zion drives into the paint, Doke would knock him on his ass. But if Zion plays outside the paint on offense, he has the foot speed that would make it hard for Doke to cover him on defense, just like Spellman did. Which is why I think Dedric would match up better, with help from Doke in the paint.

Aug 23, 2018 04:49 AM #81

@KUSTEVE I really hope Dok has worked on his weakside help defense this offseason. It would be monumental if he lives up to his defensive potiental.

Aug 23, 2018 06:23 AM #82

@KUSTEVE

Zion will not be playing Center so likely Dedric would be guarding him and then he can have Doke, Silvio, Big Dave or Even Mitch (who is a very good blocker and has bulked up quite a bit over the Summer) meet him at the rim and they all are plenty big and strong to match up with him. The only time KU might play Duke would be at the Tournament and it is doubtful the NCAA would pair KU and Duke again, particularly if KU is the better team...they would not want Duke beotch slapped again.:smiley:

Aug 23, 2018 11:09 AM #83

@KUSTEVE

Great news about Ded!

I was pretty happy with KU’s success against teams that dared zone us last season with so many good outside shooters and players coached to score in the seams when the trey line was too overguarded.

Cant wait to see Ded IRON-ize zones this season!

Aug 23, 2018 11:10 AM #84

dylans said:

@KUSTEVE I really hope Dok has worked on his weakside help defense this offseason. It would be monumental if he lives up to his defensive potiental.

Copy and paste.

Aug 25, 2018 03:55 PM #85

@jaybate-1.0 The point forward is going to change the way our offense plays. I'm convinced the ball runs through Dedric almost as much as it does whoever plays point guard. He is the team's best passer, and he has great handles for a 6'9" hybrid pf-sf with a wing span of 7'4". The one knock on him was he lacked strength, but he's had over a year under the careful leadership of Hudy, and with Doke/Silvio/Mac down low, he most likely won't be matched up against a center, like he was at Memphis. He is an elite rebounder, with a nose for the ball. He blocked more shots than Doke and out rebounded him in his sophomore year. He also averaged almost as many steals as Devonte in his soph year(1.4-1.3), and almost as many assists(3.7-3.3). Lawson averaged 19.9 ppg and 9.9 rebounds his sophomore year, which led him to being named AAC POY. If he has improved his 3 point shot, then he becomes a poor man's version of Kevin Durant...not as good a shooter, of course....but better defensively...better handles...better passer...maybe even a better rebounder.

I know that doesn't answer the point guard question. Perhaps this does:

"I would say he's probably as complete a guard as we've ever had," Self said. "You know, he can shoot, he can pass, he can dribble, he can score at all three levels. He is a really good player right now, but what I think impressed me as much as anything is that he's bright, and as good as he is, he's competitive enough that I think he could really be special."

Quentin Grimes is the best guard that Bill has ever signed. Quentin averaged 40% from 3 his last two years in high school. Playing along side Dedric allows our guards to bring up the ball, pass it to Dedric, and run to the open spot. Can you imagine what Devonte could've done last year with help like that? That will also help Charlie and Vick from 3. A lot of people are discounting Charlie because of the Italy trip, but the fact remains he shot better better from 3 (35%) in his freshman year than Frank did his freshman year. Maybe Charlie met a girl in Italy...maybe Charlie mailed it in over there... the fact remains he was the star of the off-season scrimmages. Vick is simply dead eye from 3, and as long as he is focused, can be the real wildcard that stirs the drink. And I haven't even mentioned the synergy that exists between Dedric and his brother. KJ is 6'7" with a 7 FOOT WINGSPAN, with good handles, great rebounding skills, and a pretty good trey baller (.328 his freshman year). KJ has had a year under Hudy, with a year to hone his skills, and will be better than his freshman year, when he was named "Rookie of the year" in the AAC, after averaging 12.3 ppg and 8.1 rpg. Dotson might not shoot the 3, but he can darn sure drive the ball to the rim, and he can definitely play lock down defense. And Garrett is going to just keep getting better and better and better.

Bill pioneered "badball". He adopted ( out of necessity ) 4 out "trey ball". Now the genius kicks in, as he runs with as many as 3/4 floor generals at the same time, all playing around Doke/Silvio...or he goes 5 out...YES...5 out with a lineup of Charlie/Dotson, Grimes, Vick, KJ, and Dedric. All can drive the ball...all can shoot from 3. If he wants to play an all defensive 5 out team , he could run with a Grimes/Garrett/Vick/KJ/Dedric. If wants to hammer the ball down their throat, he could pull Dedric out beyond the perimeter, throw the hi-lo to Doke, and get Doke in 1 on 1 isolations all day long. If Doke doesn't shoot free throws well again( which I highly doubt that Doke won't be significantly better), then we have Silvio, who is very good at shooting free throws. If the other team is going 4 out, we can match up. If the other team plays big, Daddy can play big. We have never had this type of depth...never. As deep as we were in 2007, and then in 2008, I'm not sure those teams could field two separate lineups that would both be ranked. I think some of the "old rules", such as you can't win the tournament w/o an experienced pg are going to be set aside the same way that people used to say that freshmen couldn't thrive under Self, and that Bill would never go to a 3 point oriented offense. This is yet another chapter that will be deemed as another genius performance from a Hall of Fame coach. Keep an open mind- I think Bill is going to surprise you.

Aug 25, 2018 04:51 PM #86

@KUSTEVE

You are right that if Grimes can play like any other guys that have lead their teams to national titles as freshmen guards, KU is in the chips for sure.

Self could start Vick, or Charlie, or even Dotson at PG, if Grimes were that Magic like player that can take over the game at will any time after having made everyone better before hand.

Do you think Self thinks Quentin Grimes is ready to produce like Magic did his first college season, or like Jordan did his last college season? Well forget Jordan, because he didn’t do it his first varsity season, did he?

I guess that is what you’re suggesting. Grimes is Magic like.

You appear to read Self as saying Grimes is better suited to leading this team’s roster to a ring than Andrew was suited to leading his team to a ring.

Grimes must be pretty GD good NOW!

If this is what you believe Self is really thinking, then I’m in!!!

LAST ONE TO FINAL FOUR TICKETS IS A ROTTEN EGG!!!!

Aug 25, 2018 05:02 PM #87

@KUSTEVE A couple of points.

The first is that Dedric Lawson actually isn't an elite rebounder. His advanced rebounding numbers are pretty similar to Doke and nowhere near T-Rob who was KU's last truly elite rebounder. I don't even think Dedric is as good a rebounder as Lucas is.

The second is that Lagerald Vick is hardly a dead eye from 3. His 3 point percentage has been in the 37% range the last two years and he's always been a very streaky shooter like Elijah Johnson was.

Aug 25, 2018 06:13 PM #88

@jaybate-1.0 So you disagree with Bill said about Grimes? You don't have to take my word for it - takes Bill's word. He doesn't have to produce like Magic Johnson. That's a straw man argument, imo.

Aug 25, 2018 06:20 PM #89

@Texas-Hawk-10 I think you proved my point in the fact you had to go back 6 years to find anyone on our team that had as many boards per game as Lawson. I guess elite is in the eye of the beholder, as TROB averaged 6.4 rpg as a sophomore. Are you trying to compare Trob's junior campaign with Lawson sophomore campaign? I'll grant you that 37 to 38% from Vick is not Svi good, but if he has the proverbial senior bump, we could see 40%+, and that qualifies as eagle eye, in my books. Like I said, it's in the eye of the beholder.

Aug 25, 2018 06:50 PM #90

@KUSTEVE Here's why Dedric averaged double digit rebounds per game at Memphis his sophomore year, he played 35 minutes per game. For comparison, Doke played about 24 minutes per game last year as a sophomore and T-Rob played 15 minutes per game as a sophomore.

Per 40 minutes as sophomores, T-Rob averaged 17.6 rebounds per 40 minutes. Azubuike averaged 11.9 rebounds per 40 minutes and Dedric Lawson averaged 11.5 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Rebounding percentage as sophomores, T-Rob had a 19.1% offensive rebounding %, 30.7% defensive rebounding %, and a 25.3% total rebounding %.

Doke had a 12.4% offensive rebounding %, 20.7% defensive rebounding % and 16.9% total rebounding %

Dedric had 9.1% offensive rebounding %, 22.8 defensive rebounding %, and a 15.9% total rebounding %.

Those were numbers Dedric put up against largely inferior competition in the AAC so I don't see those numbers getting better with fewer minutes against better competition.

The one area where Dedric has a slight edge over Doke in rebounding is on the defensive end, but it's not a huge advantage and this isn't saying Dedric is a bad player, but he's not the elite rebounder people here are making him out to be.

Aug 25, 2018 06:55 PM #91

@KUSTEVE

Well then what freshman that has lead a team to a ring would you choose as a fitting precedent. I’m not doubting. Just trying to see how good Grimes has to be as a freshman to make this dog hunt rings.

Aug 25, 2018 06:56 PM #92

@Texas-Hawk-10 I don't think rebounding is going to be a big problem for this team.

Aug 25, 2018 07:05 PM #93

This KU team is very good. A top 5 team easily and everyone seems to think top 2 (along with UK).

Aug 25, 2018 07:51 PM #94

@BShark I've never said this was going to be a bad rebounding, just that I think Dedric's rebounding ability is being overhyped by a big section of the KU fan base. If Dedric was the lone big, I'd be concerned, but with the depth in the frontcourt, I think KU will be just fine in the rebounding department.

The area I see KU having some issues this year is scoring. The back court is so young and inexperienced except for Vick and lacks that guy that you have to guard on the perimeter that I see a lot of teams packing the paint against KU I can see some games where KU may go 6 or 7 minutes without a FG because of the make of the team.

Aug 25, 2018 11:11 PM #95

jaybate 1.0 said:

@KUSTEVE

Well then what freshman that has lead a team to a ring would you choose as a fitting precedent. I’m not doubting. Just trying to see how good Grimes has to be as a freshman to make this dog hunt rings.

Carmelo Anthony...

Aug 25, 2018 11:26 PM #96

@jaybate-1.0 I think you've made your mind up. Bill has a way of breaking through ceilings on things like that. Everyone said freshmen couldn't thrive in his system, and then Wigs and JJ both had great years. After Bill made the fools gold comment about 3s, and we were all convinced he would never run a 3 point offense, he constructs one of the best 3 pointing shooting teams in college basketball. So, I understand the conventional thought is you must have an experienced point guard or a Magic Johnson talent frosh to win it all. I might be whistling in the dark- i happen to think this team can win it all, and I laid out my case.

Aug 25, 2018 11:34 PM #97

@Texas-Hawk-10 Do you see Doke playing more than 24 minutes, or Dedric playing any less than 35? Doke averaging 24 minutes for the year meant for practically the entire season, we had 36 minutes where we got whipped badly on the boards ( Silvio helped a lot, but he wasn't in there for very long). It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Doke out rebounded Lawson, but I could see Lawson coming out on top as well. The point is, we have two REALLY good options going for boards. Now, if you don't want to deem Lawson "elite" as a rebounder after a 9.9 average, that's your preference. I just know it's been a long 6 years without having 2 good rebounders on the floor at the same time.

Aug 25, 2018 11:46 PM #98

Texas Hawk 10 said:

@BShark I've never said this was going to be a bad rebounding, just that I think Dedric's rebounding ability is being overhyped by a big section of the KU fan base. If Dedric was the lone big, I'd be concerned, but with the depth in the frontcourt, I think KU will be just fine in the rebounding department.

The area I see KU having some issues this year is scoring. The back court is so young and inexperienced except for Vick and lacks that guy that you have to guard on the perimeter that I see a lot of teams packing the paint against KU I can see some games where KU may go 6 or 7 minutes without a FG because of the make of the team.

It's definitely going to take some time to get cohesion on offense. There are some potential line-ups where the shooting would be very bad.

Aug 26, 2018 12:32 AM #99

@KUSTEVE

No, mind wide open. I really do want to know who board rats are thinking Grimes will compare with among freshmen on ring teams of the past. I haven’t seen him yet. No doubt he is good if Bill thinks he is ready to play immediately. But at what role and level of contribution do folks see him at? That’s what I am trying to learn from you and others. Will he start and be a hub, like Rush. Will he be second fiddle like Wiggins became with Embiid? Will he just dominate and run the show like Magic? I still don’t have a feel for what folks are expecting from him.

Aug 26, 2018 02:42 AM #100

jaybate 1.0 said:

@KUSTEVE

No, mind wide open. I really do want to know who board rats are thinking Grimes will compare with among freshmen on ring teams of the past. I haven’t seen him yet. No doubt he is good if Bill thinks he is ready to play immediately. But at what role and level of contribution do folks see him at? That’s what I am trying to learn from you and others. Will he start and be a hub, like Rush. Will he be second fiddle like Wiggins became with Embiid? Will he just dominate and run the show like Magic? I still don’t have a feel for what folks are expecting from him.

Grimes is a absolute Stud. - He is a player that is going to come in and be a starter from day one , he is as for sure the most certain one and done there is There has even been some talk that as the season plays out and this is Not from KU people but others that say by seasons end Quentin Grimes might just be the best player in the Nation Quentin is going to play very much a MAJOR role for KU this year -- Coach knows he is ready to go> - Let me ask you who else would play the 2 which that is the position he will be starting that would have the impact Quentin is going to have? - -Not Vick - Vick will be spending the majority of his time at the 3 - -KJ ? - - KJ is good - -plays some 2 I hear but as big as impact as Quentin will have? - - No Way. Quentin I feel is more talented then KJ - again KJ is good but not Quentin good.

Marcus? - -I love Marcus but at this point offensively Marcus isn't nearly as talented as Quentin - Marcus kind of limited unless he has vastly improved in the off season. - -I love Marcus defensively think he is really good - - on that side of the ball they may be more equal , but offensively not a chance - -Our boy from KC - -I don't think he is a 2 is he? - -might be -but again I don't think he is at Quentin's level. - - Put it like this also - -who else do we have for that position that was ever considered a strong OAD canidate ? As far as who he compares to? -- I don't really know - -I kind of hate trying to compare anyways - -Quentin is Quentin which is very good - Everyone does there own thing - - -he is going to be a lot more of a hub then a 2nd fiddle, Quentin and Dedric are going to be very big parts. - -HE isn't just going to totally dominate of course he will have moments just like any other Freshman - but a lot more good minutes then bad - -The kid is a stud - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Aug 26, 2018 12:52 PM #101

@jayballer73 Here's a nice breakdown on Grime's game:

[

Aug 26, 2018 01:13 PM #102

@KUSTEVE ...83rd percentile of FIBA in all jumpers, 88th in catch and shoot, range beyond college 3, compact release, near perfect form, has every offscreen action down pat, high bball IQ, 3.1 to 1 Assist/TO ratio... NICE!

Aug 26, 2018 01:51 PM #103

@jaybate-1.0 I watched every minute of the FIBA tournament. Grimes had the ball in his hands a lot. My first impression was that he is big physically. Big enough to take the ball inside and defend the big guys on switches. Grimes isn't slender like Garrett. Grimes also made the biggest effort to get his teammates involved. Most players on those tournament teams just go one on one. But, he turned the ball over too; usually trying too hard to get it to a teammate. Grimes' three point shooting was off, but there's no reason he can't be a spot-up shooter. I can't wait to see these guys, Thanks Coach Self.

Aug 26, 2018 02:18 PM #104

@stoptheflop

Thanks for the insights. Sounds like quite a player.

Aug 26, 2018 02:44 PM #105

@jayballer73

Seems Self faces a tough choice. Grimes might be best at 2 or 3, taking over the ball for stretches, the way MJ used to.

But Self needs a point guard to let QG play that way.

Maybe Self WILL get away with Charlie and Dot at point with Grimes or Vick at wings switching off onto tall PGs.

OR Self can make Grimes a tall point guard, use Vick/Garrett at 2, big Ded at 3, and rotate all his remaining 5 bigs at 4 and 5.

If Grimes can do what you saw, then I say give him the keys and let him drive and kick. Oscar Robertson and Derek Rose seem like Grimes best precedents. Both demolished the NCAA.

I like Rose for a precedent. Rose had CDR AND an bunch of bigs. Ded = CDR. Figure KU’s bigs will be better than Memphistos. Figure KU won’t miss FTs down the stretch or run into a better coach.

Hang banner.

Aug 26, 2018 03:32 PM #106

jaybate 1.0 said:

@jayballer73

Seems Self faces a tough choice. Grimes might be best at 2 or 3, taking over the ball for stretches, the way MJ used to.

But Self needs a point guard to let QG play that way.

Maybe Self WILL get away with Charlie and Dot at point with Grimes or Vick at wings switching off onto tall PGs.

OR Self can make Grimes a tall point guard, use Vick/Garrett at 2, big Ded at 3, and rotate all his remaining 5 bigs at 4 and 5.

If Grimes can do what you saw, then I say give him the keys and let him drive and kick. Oscar Robertson and Derek Rose seem like Grimes best precedents. Both demolished the NCAA.

I like Rose for a precedent. Rose had CDR AND an bunch of bigs. Ded = CDR. Figure KU’s bigs will be better than Memphistos. Figure KU won’t miss FTs down the stretch or run into a better coach.

Hang banner.

I don't think we will see Grimes at the point this year , true he can play it - believe he did play it some in High School - just not seeing it at KU. - - I don't think you might have to worry as much with our point as you might think. = =Devon is a very capable pg and other then being a Freshmen which again he is going to struggle at times such as like possible with that dam West Virginia press and possible some other stretches.

As most here know I for sure love Devon I just like his mentality kid is super quick and loves driving the ball tough kid reminds me some of a young Frank myself same bull doggish approach - I'll take him any day. - - Now Charlie more likely then not will probably start the season as the starter and that's ok that's a luxury for us 2 pretty decent pg's however I don't think it will be long before Devon takes that spot. he is just to good not to you remember the saying it's not who starts a game but it's who is on the floor at the end? - -umm ya - - Devon.

Gonna be a lot of Dedric & Quentin for us and then throw Doke on top of that. - We are just so deep we can throw so many different combinations at a team. - Our depth is gonna be a huge factor this year. Going to allow the guys out front to be more aggressive cause they know they got help in back if they get beat Got the Bruisers allow the guards to take more risks at stealing the ball over playing the passing lanes and such. Then on our front line they don't have to worry as much about foul trouble be more aggressive on the boards and such - -Someone get in trouble just throw another one in. - - McCormack - -- DeSousa - -- Mitch - - - Hell even KJ can slide down for a bit -we can go big - -we can go small - -we can combo MERCY - -look out. - Again I'm not real big in comparisions I just let them be who they are. - Some get a bad rap cause people try and tag them with a comparision and they might not meet some one's expectations then all we hear is how they were such a bust. - I'm telling you though we are going to enjoy Quentin for his one year here and yes it will be one year just sit back and enjoy. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Aug 26, 2018 03:39 PM #107

@stoptheflop

I also watched all the games and I was surprised when he played PG because he obviously was projected to play SG in college. I will guess that Coach Self saw in practice how good he was and decided to have him run the point; a real luxury to have a capable 6'-5" PG.

He was extremely good against competition that in some games was the equivalent of a JuCo team but other times was very good and he was rightly named the Tournament MVP. No doubt he is the best combo guard of his class.

KU has had several players (in recent years) that were ready to start and contribute very early on, McLemore, Selden Jackson. Wiggins come to mind and others did not start right away but did as the season went on, Embiid, Oubre come to mind and others such as Perry, Mason and Graham that you could see their potential became outstanding players but not necessarily from the get go.

From what I have seen, Grimes might be the player most ready to start and contribute from day one in recent years; Coach Self has pretty much said the same thing. You mentioned that at the U18 his 3 point shot was not as good as expected but he was shooting from FIBA range which is farther out than college; I expect him to be a 40% or better 3 point shooter, he was at that level his junior and senior HS years and with the additional training I am sure he will be up there in college. More concerning is his FT shooting since he has averaged around 64% which is low for someone that will be shooting fa air number of them.

Aug 26, 2018 03:48 PM #108

Grimes is the kind of player Self can shuffle around 1-4 depending on situational need. I would guess mainly 1-3 with the roster KU has this season. He will hope to become a pg in the NBA. He has great pg instincts. Think DWill.

Aug 26, 2018 04:01 PM #109

@BShark

I agree. Grimes is the best combo guard of the class that can play 1-4 and might actually be the best PG in this team, but for the team, he is a better option at SG or wing. Moore is a natural SG but with the build of a small PG so I expect that when playing with Grimes they might switch position at times depending on the match ups but the primary PGs for the team will be Moore and Dotson with Garret as a distant third option. When playing a tall PG that would have too much advantage over Moore or Dotson, Grimes can slide to that position or Garret can play PG as well.

Aug 26, 2018 04:04 PM #110

Has anyone heard news in regards to Silvio?

Aug 26, 2018 04:06 PM #111

twhalen said:

Has anyone heard news in regards to Silvio?

Nothing more that I know of. All I have heard is that Coach Self is fully expecting Silvio to be Eligible and ready to go - nothing otherwise that I have heard at this point. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Aug 26, 2018 04:16 PM #112

@JayHawkFanToo Yep. Lot's of roster flexibility. Who knows maybe Vick plays pg. ;)

@twhalen I am not getting the same vibes from this as the Preston situation. The first game will be very telling. If Silvio plays I would expect him to play all year. If not......

Aug 26, 2018 04:21 PM #113

@twhalen

No news is good news?

As far as I know he is still in school and working out with the the team. I really don't expect the NCAA to do anything until the FBI has acted and by that time the season might be over. I assume KU will get assurances from the NCAA that Silvio is still eligible because it would not risk having to forfeit games, more so in a season where the National Title is a very realistic goal.

Aug 26, 2018 04:23 PM #114

@BShark

If Vick plays PG maybe Doke can slide and play wing...:smiley:

Aug 26, 2018 04:43 PM #115

@jayballer73

The thing is: to win a ring, KU’s starting 5 and first two rotation players HAVE to play a scheme that can OVERCOME whistle asymmetry and flat out beat the other 2-3 best Nike EST teams in the country, when they shorten to seven to keep their best guys on the floor 38-40 minutes with the refs no calling the KU OPPONENT back into the game from 20 to 5 remaining and then putting the KU opponent on the FT line the last 5 minutes. This is the recurrent pattern every non Nike EST team faces each March.

So: Self has little choice but to get his most dominant two scorers in position to strike as quickly as possible to avoid passing to get open looks that just allows more no calls.

Any non Nike EST team that runs the stuff down the stretch against any TOP 3 Nike EST team is playing into the structural asymmetry apparently imposed on such games.

My point here is this:you don’t want to run offense all season and run 8-9 man rotations that rely on point guards passing to get Grimes, or Ded, the ball, because the no calls stop that cold in March.

You also don’t want to waist your time with Grimes and Ded driving for short treys, because those COMPLETELY disappear in March.

The 7 man rotation and the 40-50% trey and the carry them up on your back dunk are the only way on offense for a non Nike EST team to have ANY chance in a Final Four these days.

I’d rather invest in Grimes at PG now instead of having to shift over to in March.

Besides, even if Grimes plays 2, he will effectively take over point to seal close conference games.

Cut to the chase.

START him at PG so opponents face maximum stress from tip off and rest whenever they crack.

That way you get to run with what brung you when the refs weigh in in March.

Aug 26, 2018 05:51 PM #116

@jaybate-1.0 - -- Sorry to disappoint you but I don't think your going to be seeing Quentin at the point , I strongly feel they recruited these TWO players for very specific positions. I think they recruited Devon and fully committed to him as being THE pg on this roster and he is good enough to do that, I also think they recruited. Quentin fully as a 2 wing player - Not saying he won't play any other position BUT I think if anything you have more of a chance of seeing Quentin playing some 3 more then the pg.

We have two very solid pg's to man that spot - ya you might and again I say might see Quentin possibly play a LITTLE pg but to suggest that Coach is going to move him over and have him starting at the pg? - - - Not happening. - For one If they were going to do that I don't think they would of invested so much time in recruiting Devon again and with Moore who has had a year of playing as the pg at a major college has that College experience - just don't see it - -not at all , not in the scenario your trying to paint anyways - -Quentin if I were to wager I would say he will be playing the 2 spot 90 % of the time with probably at least the other 5-10 % at the 3 - -it just doesn't make that much sense to try and have him come in and take over as a pg when you have two very competent other pg's already there, that's not making us of the entire squads contributions/talent and Devon is a talented player and will be just fine as the pg - leave Quentin at the 2 there is a bigger need for him there then our pg spot - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Aug 26, 2018 09:23 PM #117

@jayballer73

I am already disappointed.

Vick and Grimes relegated to wings by a couple short point guards that Vick and Grimes will have to cover for on defense and shoot for on offense.

Orthodoxy costs will be paid to the end of the season.

Unorthodoxy costs would only have to be paid till January or early February.

But orthodoxy and playing the OADs that keep the OAD spigot open will likely prevail.

And we will likely celebrate another 30+ win season, a title from overwhelming numbers and get shot out of a gym when we have to shorten to 7 against a team with a 6-3 point guard, a 6-6 2, and a stretch 4 as good as Ded, and a 5 that can shoot the trey and pull Doke out to 20 feet.

Aug 26, 2018 11:26 PM #118

@jaybate-1.0 Seems like though we have just recently had a couple of short point guards Well Devonte not that short but seems like Frank and Devonte shot the ball pretty well, just because your short doesn't mean you can't play the game. - Look at Tiny Nate Archibald - - - The Small fry from Kentucky a couple of yrs back , Frank - our POY - were gonna be all right

Aug 27, 2018 12:02 AM #119

@jaybate-1.0

What makes you think Dotson is a short guard? Every single publication (even KU) lists Dotson as 6’2” the same height as Devonte and Chalmers and taller than RussRob, Sherron, Mason and Tharpe and just an inch short than Tayshawn Taylor, all of the recent PGs at KU. Moore is the same height as Collins, Tharpe and Mason...and no, I am not going by KU measurements, which actually proved to be spot on if you look at the listed height at KU and compare with measurements at the NBA combined in the last few years, I am going by listed measurements in other publications which list height. You are welcome to find a recent publication that lists Dotson shorter than 6’2”; his height in elementary or middle school do not count.

Aug 27, 2018 12:14 AM #120

@JayHawkFanToo I probably started that. He looks about 5'11", but everything I've found is saying he's 6'2".

Aug 27, 2018 01:52 AM #121

@JayHawkFanToo Here Dotson is working over Jahvon Quinerly, and Dotson is definitely taller than Jahvon, who is 6'1". We're going to be just fine at point guard, because Dotson is a BEAST: [

Aug 27, 2018 02:30 AM #122

@KUSTEVE Dotson is the best PG in last year's class. FIGHT ME ANYONE THAT DISAGREES.

Aug 27, 2018 02:33 PM #123

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Can Zion stop doke?

He's strong enough to hold his position against Doke in the post. Whether his technique is sound enough to do so without fouling is beyond me because we haven't seen him tested like that.

Because Doke doesn't have a lot of post moves (he's not Kevin McHale down there), if a player can handle the strength, he can be guarded.

It's just that 95% of the players in college BB can't handle Doke's strength. Zion is one of the strongest incoming freshmen I have ever seen.

Aug 27, 2018 03:07 PM #124

The big question is ...can we shoot the ball from outside and stretch the defense. I think we can. Several people on here have doubts. Bill has doubts :

“And I’ve said hundreds of times already, and I’ll say it some more: We’ve got a lot of nice players — really nice players — but unless we have a couple of guys kind of emerge as knockdown shooters, nice players can be guarded pretty easily.

“We’ve got to find some guys that can consistently stretch it.”

And that's the million dollar question. I like our chances...Vick becomes very important. Charlie gets more run. Grimes has to show his mettle. Dedric and KJ have to shoot better from 3. That's our challenge. I think we're up to it.

Aug 27, 2018 05:24 PM #125

I think Grimes will be an improved shooter in college.

In HS, Grimes often had to create his own shot. He has excellent form and shot the ball pretty well, but he had to do a lot of work off the dribble. He is a good catch and shoot guy, and should have a chance to use that skill more often at KU.

Dotson/Moore will be the best PG he has ever played with on a consistent basis. That takes the burden off him to playmake every trip, which should help him be more efficient.

He will also have D. Lawson commanding double teams inside. That should help bend the defense in his favor. Remember, in HS Grimes was always the focal point offensively. At KU, he will have opportunities where he is the second or third option, or will have plays where the defense is drawn away from him.

@KUSTEVE raises the point of shooting, which is a key factor. I think Grimes and Vick are going to be able to stretch the D. Lawson may be able to help as well. KJ, Moore and Dotson are good enough shooters to keep the defense honest. KU doesn't have a Graham or Svi to hold a guy outside at all times, but KU has enough solid shooters to keep the defense from packing it in.

Aug 27, 2018 07:42 PM #126

jayballer73 said:

@jaybate-1.0 Seems like though we have just recently had a couple of short point guards Well Devonte not that short but seems like Frank and Devonte shot the ball pretty well, just because your short doesn't mean you can't play the game. - Look at Tiny Nate Archibald - - - The Small fry from Kentucky a couple of yrs back , Frank - our POY - were gonna be all right

It means you can be NPOY and be one of the best short guards of the modern era and need help from wings, get contaied against NBA perimeter bodies like Quentin Grimes, and not make the Final Four in the case of Frank Mason, whom I dearly love and respect.

But competitive basketball officiated as it has been in the March Carney means any obvious weaknesses like short players playing shorter as the game wears on get ruthlessly exploited by Nike EST opponents.

War is hell.

Assymetrically officiated Carney ball played against NIKE EST teams stacked with OADs is at least a war game with live rounds.

No prisoners taken.

All weak links broken.

Aug 27, 2018 07:44 PM #127

JayHawkFanToo said:

@jaybate-1.0

What makes you think Dotson is a short guard? Every single publication (even KU) lists Dotson as 6’2” the same height as Devonte and Chalmers and taller than RussRob, Sherron, Mason and Tharpe and just an inch short than Tayshawn Taylor, all of the recent PGs at KU. Moore is the same height as Collins, Tharpe and Mason...and no, I am not going by KU measurements, which actually proved to be spot on if you look at the listed height at KU and compare with measurements at the NBA combined in the last few years, I am going by listed measurements in other publications which list height. You are welcome to find a recent publication that lists Dotson shorter than 6’2”; his height in elementary or middle school do not count.

————————

You already know EXACTLY why. HOWLING!!!!

And Charlie is positively diminutive with historical indexing!! 😂

Next.

Aug 27, 2018 08:21 PM #128

justanotherfan said:

....I think Grimes will be an improved shooter.... At KU, he will have opportunities where he is the second or third option, or will have plays where the defense is drawn away from him....
KJ, Moore and Dotson are good enough shooters to keep the defense honest. KU doesn't have a Graham or Svi to hold a guy outside at all times, but KU has enough solid shooters to keep the defense from packing it in.

——————————

I am grateful to you for trying to put this issue in a reasonable and reassuring light, but...

OMG! You, whom I trust implicitly at least to try to ring out the fantasy talk and tell it as it is; i.e., without the hype, have done so again and.....alas, you have confirmed my worst fears.

First, Grimes, on a team full of newbies and transfers will be second or third option some of the time 😱.

Second, the team doesn’t have ANYONE like Svi and Devonte that teams have to stretch to guard every possession.😱😱😱

Now think with me a moment here.🤔 💭

No. One. Like. Devonte. Or. Svi.

Last season, Nova had SIX guys like Devonte and Svi!!!! Hell, two were in the paint!! 🤬

Every second or third year some team has 3-4 like Devonte and Svi. Heck, only a few years back even the bang ball cheese heads had 2-3 outside AND a footer that could pot the triceratops. And it seems Consonants always has 3 trey guns.

And EVERY season it seems like a few teams have at least 2 like Devonte and Svi, right?

So this means this team is trying to win a ring without as good of 3pt shooting (not even talking about Nova grade here, just average Final Four grade shooters), as some other elite teams almost certainly will have, AND in a season when many coaches will be trying to emulate and implement some or as much of Nova’s trey offensive and defensive schemes as possible.

😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

Aug 27, 2018 08:36 PM #129

jaybate 1.0 said:

Last season, Nova had SIX guys like Devonte and Svi!!!! Hell, two were in the paint!! 🤬

Actually, Nova really only had three guys like that - Bridges, Divincenzo and Brunson. They had two interior guys who could shoot, but feasted more on the fact that many teams would not send their 4 or 5 man out to guard them, as opposed to being outright knockdown shooters. They had one other guy that benefited from a stretched defense (Booth) by getting good, unguarded looks.

Nova benefited from being able to stretch the defense in so many ways that someone always had an open look. I think Grimes, who is a better player than all but probably Bridges (and maybe Divincenzo) will get the same benefit, which is probably worth a couple percentage points.

KU will benefit from open looks. Vick hits open looks. Grimes will. Moore does. Dotson probably will. The Lawson's might.

There are enough capable shooters that KU should have adequate shooting. It won't be great, but good enough to get the job done.

Aug 27, 2018 11:25 PM #130

@justanotherfan

Actually they had six.