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Kavanaugh
Sep 29, 2018 04:58 AM #1

Republicans almost screwed up the Kavanaugh thing. Too eager to get this guy in. Trump has 5 other candidates in the hopper and Gorsuch took 61 days. Senate recesses for the holidays Dec 14 and assuming the Senate goes Dem, they swear in on Jan 3 right after recess. So Reps have a two week cushion window give or take before they risk having to present a more moderate candidate. Now if Kavanaugh gets two thumbs up from FBI they can say I told you so. But the alternative of ramming through a candidate with red flags was really looking dumb. The Clarence Thomas circumstances emboldened them. 20 years after Anita Hill he's still the quiet* consistent conservative on the court. But still, why back a candidate with skeletons? Surely there's someone better than Kavanaugh on the list who is equally conservative.

*= originally said "opinionless", pointed out as incorrect by Mayjay

Sep 29, 2018 05:03 AM #2

Moving my reply out of bball thread...

Sep 29, 2018 05:35 AM #3

It doesn't matter who they want the Democrats will drum up something that he did or he's racist, something along those lines. This has the norm for them the last decade or so. One of the funniest things about all the accusations, they act like it never happen if it goes there way. Example: John McCain, was called a white supremacist, a trader for info he supposedly gave up while a POW and Nazi during the 2008 election. The same Democrats that called him that all the sudden loved him after he died just because he didn't like trump. I disliked McCain a great deal but that didn't change because of death or because we had a common enemy. I'm a independent but I'll never vote Democrat as long as I'm alive, they will go to any level to prevent or silence people that disagree with them all while claiming to be tolerant. BS circus that's happening now is why Trump probably easily wins in 2020, most independents I know wont ever vote Democrat again either. Not to mention they made trump the president by rigging the DNC, Sanders would more than likely have won if they didn't cheat.

Sep 29, 2018 11:14 AM #4

@kjayhawks fwiw I think a lot of your concerns are valid. However, in the case of Kavanaugh, I don't see a person I want on the Supreme Court. And I don't think it's appropriate to try to ram this guy through simply because they think they can. I don't like the nuclear option and I think both Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid are fools for taking us there. We should be putting moderates on the bench. Not ideologues.

Sep 29, 2018 11:24 AM #5

@approxinfinity Thomas does write opinions. He just doesn't ask questions at the oral arguments.

Sep 29, 2018 11:56 AM #6

@mayjay you are correct. I misinterpreted something I had heard. :thumbsup:

Sep 29, 2018 02:54 PM #7

@approxinfinity I agree I deleted it I don't need to get into again with anyone lmao.

Sep 29, 2018 06:41 PM #8

Maybe we should start referring to the losing side as "the simple majority minus two"

Sep 30, 2018 01:43 AM #9

The problem with this FBI investigation is it doesn't reach a conclusion, or should say it's not supposed to. It is merely a fact finding investigation. The real problem is that a woman can come forth after 36 years later saying something happened to her. Yet she can't remember where or when. Not to mention the persons she mentioned being at this supposed event all deny or don't have any memory of such occasion.. Meaning the person that is accused can't even defend himself. Thereby creating a her world against his. Not really fair. Especially in this me too movement. You make not like this nominee for what ever reason, but the truth is he being treated quite unfairly. Also lets not forget Judge Kavanaugh has already been investigated by the FBI six times, and the FBI signed off on him every time.

Is this going to be the standard for all nomiee's from here on out? Do we expect our Supreme Court Justices to walk on water, raise the dead, and heal the sick? This isn't the Republicans messing up. As Judge Kavanaugh is more than qualified to be a supreme court Justice. As he is respected by many judges of his elk. Lib and Conservative. He has a long proven history of being a champion for woman's rights. No this is the Dems doing anything even destroying a good person. trying to keep the seat open tell they can get into power.

If you can't see the logic in this. I just hope your children don't ever have to face a similar situation. To be accused by someone with no facts, yet be found guilty with no real chance of defending themselves.

Sad days indeed.

Sep 30, 2018 03:27 AM #10

@DoubleDD or three women.. you know, whatever, details shmetails.

Sep 30, 2018 03:28 AM #11

@approxinfinity

Yet no evidence. Yea you know.

Sep 30, 2018 03:35 AM #12

@DoubleDD Right, because all three are liars working for deep state Democrats. Because that's logical.

Sep 30, 2018 03:46 AM #13

@DoubleDD also, when you say "found guilty" I'm afraid you've fallen for the innocent until guilty BS the Republicans are peddling. This isn't a criminal trial. I can't stress that enough. This is selecting a Supreme Court Justice. Someone whose history should be Sterling, beyond reproach, not someone who acts like an entitled child when testifying before Senate, or pretends that he was of drinking age when he wasn't, and pretends like he didn't drink heavily when he clearly did. Just tell the truth.

Sep 30, 2018 03:48 AM #14

@approxinfinity

You know I'm a bit taken back by your ascertains. Are you not the one that always has a open mind? Aren't you the one that always calls for the proof and facts?

You're the reason why when I post a opinion piece. I let everybody know it's a opinion piece. What gives? Why are you so ready to accept Kavanaugh as guilty without any evidence? Would you feel the same if Kavanaugh was a liberal judge?

Sep 30, 2018 03:54 AM #15

@approxinfinity

No you're right this isn't a criminal trial, but these accusations can, and have most likely already have. Will ruin his life. Keep in mind with no evidence. Should his life be ruined by a woman that can't remember where or when, and only supposably remembers under hypnosis. Which is not accepted as legit evidence in a lot courts across the land and states. Even liberal States like New York don't accept hypnosis as legit evidence.

Sep 30, 2018 04:02 AM #16

@approxinfinity

Do I think politics are involved? Yea I do. For one reason. Why did Feinstein sit on this accusation for so long? Why did she wait? If she didn't leak the story then who did? and why right when the vote was about to come down for Kavanaugh? coincidence? Umm Ok?

Sep 30, 2018 04:02 AM #17

@DoubleDD I never said he was guilty. I said the Republicans almost screwed up by not allowing the investigation to happen, as I believe we should know as much as we can from an impartial third party. I also think that when the ABA calls for an investigation you should listen. No, I dont believe garbage about the FBI being biased.

Trump is limiting the scope of the investigation, not allowing Swednick to be interviewed and not allowing the investigation to look at discrepancies in Kavanaughs story about not drinking heavily.

I also don't like how Kavanaugh acts; I think he acts like a d-bag, and I don't understand why this guy is the best we could find.

Sep 30, 2018 04:03 AM #18

Oh no, a rapist scumbag might have his life ruined because this woman had the courage to come out about it now.. I'm tearing up.

Sep 30, 2018 04:04 AM #19

@BShark

wow

Sep 30, 2018 04:05 AM #20

@approxinfinity

If you don't like him that is one thing. But are willing to accept the demise of a person of a claim with no evidence?

Sep 30, 2018 04:08 AM #21

@BShark

Yea if you can't have a civil take on the topic maybe you should just not post?

I think your post is a little over the edge and uncalled for.

Sep 30, 2018 04:08 AM #22

That's what the investigation is for, to review the evidence.

Sep 30, 2018 04:09 AM #23

@approxinfinity

Come on you know the FBI is going to do their thing, and produce the same things we already know.

Sep 30, 2018 04:12 AM #24

@DoubleDD no, I don't know that. I do know Trump is banking on that happening. Says he doesn't need a backup plan for Kavanaugh. Meanwhile shutting Swednick out of the investigation, which is absurd. Let the FBI determine whether Swednick is credible. Not for Trump to say.

Sep 30, 2018 04:12 AM #25

Thing is we are dealing with something that happened almost 40 years ago. Not many will remember or even care. Already those that have been indentified as being there. Don't have any memory of such pre party get together.

Sep 30, 2018 04:12 AM #26

What about the fact that he was showing obvious pathological lying tendancies on his crazy person rant in front of congress? When you lie and get upset about smaller things, that's a bad sign too. Could you imagine if it was a woman being that emotional, it's literally ALL people would talk about to say she was wrong.

Also, VICTIM TESTIMONY IS EVIDENCE. THERE ISN'T ZERO EVIDENCE.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/the-four-big-contradictions-in-brett-kavanaughs-senate-testimony/ ↗

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/copaken-kavanaugh/571042/ ↗

Sep 30, 2018 04:15 AM #27

DoubleDD said:

@BShark

Yea if you can't have a civil take on the topic maybe you should just not post?

I think your post is a little over the edge and uncalled for.

Nope. He's a scumbag. No sympathy. Sitting back is how the enemy wins.

Sep 30, 2018 04:15 AM #28

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD no, I don't know that. I do know Trump is banking on that happening. Says he doesn't need a backup plan for Kavanaugh. Meanwhile shutting Swednick out of the investigation, which is absurd. Let the FBI determine whether Swednick is credible. Not for Trump to say.

Trump is trying to stomp out the investigation to get this goon in for the GOP.

Sep 30, 2018 04:17 AM #29

@BShark alright maybe it wasn't civil. Dropping the F Bomb. Unfortunately I feel :100: how you do. So we both aren't very civil right now, possibly.

Sep 30, 2018 04:17 AM #30

@approxinfinity I edited out the swear just now actually. It was definitely not needed.

Sep 30, 2018 04:17 AM #31

@BShark :+1: good man I'll go abbreviate mine

Sep 30, 2018 04:18 AM #32

@BShark

Well I appreciate the effort but most of this is opinion stuff. One persons word versus another.

Kavanaugh has a track record that is pretty impressive. There is a saying That a person shall bear the their fruit. How can Kavanaugh be such a serial rapist for a couple years. Yet spend the rest of his life being a champion for women's rights? Doesn't add up.

Sep 30, 2018 04:21 AM #33

@BShark

It's kind of like this piece.

Women stand up for Kavanaugh ↗

Sep 30, 2018 04:27 AM #34

Your link is about women who have never met Kavanaugh and proved what?

It's more like this piece:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/brett-kavanaugh-ramirez-ford-which-women-matter.html ↗

Sep 30, 2018 12:06 PM #35

DoubleDD said:

Kavanaugh has a track record that is pretty impressive. There is a saying That a person shall bear the their fruit. How can Kavanaugh be such a serial rapist for a couple years. Yet spend the rest of his life being a champion for women's rights? Doesn't add up.

Did Bill Cosby add up?

Sep 30, 2018 12:07 PM #36

Cold open from SNL was pretty good yesterday

Sep 30, 2018 01:32 PM #37

@DoubleDD Most of us did some things as kids that were regrettable. Some of us did things that were extremely regrettable. Some of us were never held accountable for these actions. And some of us lie about those things now, and attack others in order to get what we want, instead of making amends.

This is not primarily about the past. It is about what kind of man Brett Kavanaugh is when confronted with his past. If he said he was a stupid high school kid, and he's not that kind of man any more, I might not like it, but it would be a lot more acceptable than using the Deny Deny Deny playbook and being belligerent in answering Senators.

Sep 30, 2018 01:39 PM #38

Sep 30, 2018 01:50 PM #39

Something to remember it that this isn't a legal trial, it's about Kavanaugh becoming a SCOTUS. It's not the same standard. And the more that I, and most rational people see of Kavanaugh, he is not fit for that position.

I don't claim any party affiliation and share views with Democratic and Republican policies. Kavanaugh is absolutely a Republican attack dog. He is simply, again, not fit to be SCOTUS.

https://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2018/09/29/brett-kavanaughs-record-raised-questions-long-before-the-women-came-along ↗

Sep 30, 2018 01:55 PM #40

I would be just as against such an extreme Democrat with a similar history becoming a SCOTUS, to be clear.

Edit: And I am aware how it really works. Only biased and partisan af people become SCOTUS. A sad reality.

Sep 30, 2018 02:02 PM #41

approxinfinity said:

DoubleDD said:

Kavanaugh has a track record that is pretty impressive. There is a saying That a person shall bear the their fruit. How can Kavanaugh be such a serial rapist for a couple years. Yet spend the rest of his life being a champion for women's rights? Doesn't add up.

Did Bill Cosby add up?

Yet in the Bill Cosby situation. It was over a long period of time. Not just a year or two stint.

The thing about Bill Cosby the evidence was quite clear. Again are we to presume someone guilty without any real evidence other that the memory conjured up through hypnosis.

Sep 30, 2018 02:07 PM #42

Not true. Multiple people have come forward with similar testimony about Kavanaugh. The FBI just doesn't want or get to hear from most of them because they have been kneecapped by the POTUS/white house.

Sep 30, 2018 02:11 PM #43

Someone must really like Kavanaugh though because he could be exchanged for an identical monster in seconds.

Sep 30, 2018 02:16 PM #44

The issue here isn't a politic one. It's much bigger than that. A man's life is being destroyed by accusations that a woman has made, without any real burden of proof. It makes no sense. So now if any woman comes forth and accuses any man of wrong doing she is to presumed telling the truth? Is this the new standard? Is this the kind of justice we want? Is this the kind of society some have been talking about and longing for?

Bottom line there is no evidence any of this took place. None. Yet we are condemning and judging him guilty. If this was a criminal trial no judge or lawyer would continue with such a lack of real hard evidence.

Be careful what you ask for. One day it could be you or your sons that are being accused my some woman from the past of wrong doing without any real evidence.

Sep 30, 2018 02:27 PM #45

@BShark

Oh yea I forgot the lady that said Kavanaugh pulled out his junk and waved it around. At this point anybody could say anything and some would believe it doesn't matter if there is any proof.

This is how the Salem witch trials got started.

Look I get you don't like the guy, but there is no evidence he has done any of these things. Ask yourself if he was a womanizer. Why did so many woman from his past come out to defend him? Why did so many woman that he has worked with in his professional, and adult life come out to defend him? What he just flipped a switch? Went from rapist to the guy on welcome to my neighborhood?

You're ready to crucify this guy because a memory that was brought up through hypnosis. Remember the people identified as being as this get together have all denied or have no memory of such a get together.

Ah I'm just wasting my time. You don't care about justice. You just want to see this guy go down. Doesn't matter how.

Have a good day.

Sep 30, 2018 03:00 PM #46

You really believe him? His acting was so poor. His insectile bits were poking out from his flesh suit. Ford kept her composure while he cried, screamed and rambled about the Clintons. But I digress...this particular insect is unimportant.

That is really what this has been turned into, you are right. It's all a show that both parties are using to further an agenda at this point.

The Democrats claim they want everyone to believe all women, but there will never be a criminal trial pursued. Ultimately, there will be Democrats confirming Kavanaugh*. This whole thing is like the police investigating police brutality and corruption. WE INVESTIGATED OURSELVES AND FOUND NOTHING WRONG. CARRY ON. Maybe the goal is to trot out just how corrupt the American government system really is. Increase the number one electoral party: non-voters due to apathy.

*It's pro wrestling. Entertainment for the masses with nothing actually on the line because again Kavanaugh is completely replaceable. Another key aspect of pro wrestling is that everyone is employed by the same guy. Which is why I fully expect Kavanaugh to be confirmed anyway, including lots of confirmations from Democrats. They don't really want him out. Neither side seemed interested in an actual investigation into Kavanaugh. Or they could have pushed the hearing back. Again, dog and pony show entertainment.

Whoever Trump puts there at the end of the day will adhere to a specific agenda. It was even a campaign promise, basically. I mean, good lord, Gorsuch stole a seat in broad daylight. Long live the plutocracy.

I am interested in justice, and a fair Supreme Court. But I also realize it's impossible. I'm not THAT naive. Anything attempting true reform in regards to money and corruption will be shot down in seconds. Nothing brings Democrats and Republicans together faster.

I channeled my inner jb with this post. Who knew I had it in me?

Sep 30, 2018 10:27 PM #47

Sep 30, 2018 11:20 PM #48

@DoubleDD Hypnosis? A Fox commentator says she thinks Ford underwent hypnosis, and you treat that as a fact. But someone's testimony under oath you say is not evidence?

You need to go back to law school. I think you missed something!

Oct 01, 2018 01:47 AM #49

I was wondering where that came from. I never watch Fox.

Oct 01, 2018 01:59 AM #50

I don’t really want to say much here, but kavanaugh has to think we are really dumb to believe him about what he said about those nasty words on his calendars!

Oct 01, 2018 02:15 PM #51

!alt text ↗

Oct 01, 2018 03:16 PM #52

@BShark can you throw a link to this?

Oct 01, 2018 03:20 PM #53

@approxinfinity https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-confusion-surrounding-the-fbis-renewed-investigation-of-brett-kavanaugh ↗

Oct 01, 2018 03:22 PM #54

LOL @ the NewYorker. If you want to discount Fox News or any conservative news organization then the same can be said for them.

Oct 01, 2018 03:38 PM #55

And I actually read articles on from the newyorker on other topics because they do write some good articles. But they are extremely one sided when it comes to politics.

Oct 01, 2018 04:52 PM #56

Time to move on. Sure, everyone has done things they regret. No we shouldn't convict everyone in the court of opinions all the time. But I'd think that the Supreme Court is sort of the exception to that. There are essentially 861 current options, and really more if we didn't just limit ourselves to current Federal Judges. Plenty of good options out there.

I mean, can we not find one who isn't a liar trying to repaint their 17 year old self as a boy scout? Completely ignoring any allegations, had Kavanaugh owned being a bit of a degenerate in HS and college (as a lot of us probably were), I think people would essentially have no arguments to keep him off the court.

It was such an easy PR move that I don't know how the Reps blew it. All he had to say was "I drank as a kid. I did dumb things. Some of which I can't remember. And if I did something hurtful to someone without realizing it, I truly apologize for the idiot I was 35 years ago. But I'm a completely different person now than I was then. And I've proven that over the entirety of my career." If he just said that, it would have been nearly impossible for Democrats to argue against.

But he didn't. So, time to move on.

Oct 01, 2018 06:25 PM #57

Kcmatt7 said:

....trying to repaint their 17 year old self as a boy scout? ....

In my estimation, this is the biggest issue.

When Trump selected him, I watched and thought that he had picked a pretty good guy. His credentials were impressive and he sold me on the presentation with the kids and wife all in a tight group.

Looked pretty good at the time. Now I feel deceived.

If he had owned up to his reputation as Bush had, this trickle of information about his beer-bashing past would not have seemed so dissonant.

His attempt to misrepresent himself is a very real concern that doesn't rely on any corroboration or FBI investigation. It was there for my very own two eyes to see.

Deceit, distortion... these are characteristics that should be instant disqualifiers for Supreme Court justice.

Oct 01, 2018 07:16 PM #58

THIS IS JUST FOR FUN

!alt text ↗

Oct 01, 2018 08:04 PM #59

Oct 02, 2018 01:42 AM #60

@bskeet that's sort of where I'm at. After the main senate confirmation hearings, I disagreed with him philosophically on a lot of issues, but I assumed (and hoped) deep down, he was a probably a decent guy, husband and dad, and worthy of being a SC judge. Go for it. He's a JUDGE, right?

But that ridiculous display of bullshit Thursday was laughable. He's from the same high school class as me ('83). I know the Animal House and other movie references, what the drinking age was in every surrounding state in 1982 (nope, not legal) and all the other stuff he lied about for no reason. (Devil's triangle is like quarters? LOL) If he would have said, "hey, it was an all guys catholic school and we were sexually repressed, trying to be cool and funny with the yearbook," I would have gotten that because I was young and insecure like that once too.

But, like Maya Angelou said, "When people show you who they are, believe them." He showed us he's an entitled prick, who was never held accountable for anything in his entire life.

He'll get through with enough sham excuses for all the scared republican senators to vote for him, and be a useless joke like Clarence Thomas for his time on the court until, on his way home from a Georgetown pub, he drunkenly smashes his car into a light pole late some night. Hopefully he's alone in the car.

Oct 02, 2018 03:19 AM #61

Read the entire report ↗ and draw your own conclusions.

Oct 02, 2018 03:25 AM #62

@JayHawkFanToo I already have mine! Drawn several conclusions from your posts.

Oct 02, 2018 03:28 AM #63

@Kcmatt7 "There are essentially 861 current options, and really more if we didn’t just limit ourselves to current Federal Judges. Plenty of good options out there."

Still waiting for that call!

Oct 02, 2018 03:32 AM #64

Well, on second thought I would not want the people who saw me staggering up from the railroad tracks after the first law school party to be interviewed.... I must decline. Sorry, Donald.

Oct 02, 2018 03:44 AM #65

@mayjay 📞 hello, mayjay? You don't talk to women like they are second rate citizens? Do you throw 🍻 in someone's face? Boofing? Devil's Triangle?

Oct 02, 2018 03:52 AM #66

https://apple.news/Arh1LwfHdQVC2ytvK21fVDQ ↗

Oct 02, 2018 04:14 AM #67

@Crimsonorblue22 I don't remember ever doing anything wrong after barfing on the bed at the age of 2 months because of too much spiked formula--my friends Marky, and JR, and Poopsie, and I liked formula. And we were the proper age for formula.

Oct 02, 2018 04:20 AM #68

Am I the only one on here, oh, and Kavanaugh, that didn't know what those "words" were?

Oct 02, 2018 04:25 AM #69

@Crimsonorblue22 I am proud to admit my own naiveté. Then again, I went to public schools.

Oct 02, 2018 05:38 AM #70

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@JayHawkFanToo I already have mine! Drawn several conclusions from your posts.

You must be a mind reader since this is the first time have posted on this thread and subject.

Oct 02, 2018 09:27 AM #71

@JayHawkFanToo i read the report. I have to say, it is a pretty clear indictment of Rachel Mitchell as a hack.

This quote bothers me a lot, I'm a stickler for quotes actually being quotes. And unless Leland Keyser talks about herself in the third person, this is not accurate:

All three named eyewitnesses have submitted statements to the Committee denying any memory of the party whatsoever. Most relevantly, in her first statement to the Committee, Ms. Keyser stated through counsel that, “[s]imply put, Ms. Keyser does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present, with, or without, Dr. Ford.” In a subsequent statement to the Committee through counsel, Ms. Keyser said that “the simple and unchangeable truth is that she is unable to corroborate [Dr. Ford’s allegations] because she has no recollection of the incident in question.”

Who is saying "simply put" here, the person being quoted or the person pretending to give an impartial report?

When you don't conduct an investigation you almost certainly will not have sufficient evidence. To say that you don't have enough to prosecute is frankly, stupid and pointless even if you qualify it, because you know this isn't a criminal trial.

Her bosses were not interested in an impartial truth, they were looking for a hack job by a woman who they could pretend was doing things by the book. And they got exactly the show they paid for.

Oct 02, 2018 11:44 AM #72

@approxinfinity I think her initial conclusion that there is not enough evidence to convict, even by the lower standard of prepondrance of the evidence, is justified just because of the vaguenes in dates. But I know from personal experience in criminal appeals that many cases have warranted arrest, far more investigation than occurred here, and even prosecution, based on accusations less corroborated than Dr. Ford's. As she pleaded in her testimony, the date could be pinned down by investigation.

Police have historically required rape complainants to give evidence that is virtually impossible for them to get. That failure to be willing to investigate a "reputable" alleged assailant is the biggest concern (and is also behind the anthem kneeling if you actually listen to the protestors).

Were this a criminal complaint, any unbiased prosecutor would have rejected the case as undeveloped, but demanded that the police investigate further.

But her complaint is corroborated as to the drinking and thoroughly disgusting dishonorable attitudes towards women. Unless Dr. Ford got hold of Kavanaugh's calendars back in 2012, or Mark Judge's book, or the yearbook, it would have to be a ridiculously unlikely coincidence for the repetitive drunkenness shown in those sources to match behavior she alleges occurred.

Oct 02, 2018 12:16 PM #73

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/rachel-mitchells-arizona-boss-calls-senate-dems-hyenas-10878275 ↗

Oct 02, 2018 03:01 PM #74

approxinfinity said:

@JayHawkFanToo i read the report. I have to say, it is a pretty clear indictment of Rachel Mitchell as a hack.

This quote bothers me a lot, I'm a stickler for quotes actually being quotes. And unless Leland Keyser talks about herself in the third person, this is not accurate:

I posted a reply a few minutes ago but it seems to have vanished...🤔

First, I commend you on at least reading the report before drawing conclusions on the report and not drawing conclusions on my thinking since I did not express any thoughts on the subject, pro or con.

As far as your concern, the letter and sworn affidavit was written to the senate by Leland Keyser’s attorney, so it would be correct for him to refer to her in the third person.

Oct 02, 2018 03:37 PM #75

@JayHawkFanToo I see now. It's quoting Howard Walsh, the attorney. :thumbsup:

Oct 02, 2018 05:37 PM #76

@mayjay

As you know, there is no constitutional requirement that a Supreme Court Justice be a lawyer; the only requirements are that he be nominated by the president and approved by the Senate.

All of the past justices have been lawyers although not all had law degrees since in th early days of the republic there were not many law schools and a law degree was not a requirement to be admitted to the bar, the requirement was to "read" the law and to learn under the tutelage of a practicing attorney. Many justices had not been judges either with notables examples being John Marshall, William Rehnquist, and Earl Warren.

It would be extremely difficult, practically impossible, for a non-lawyer to be nominated and confirmed by the Senate; the only possible exception would be a law professor that is not a member of the bar. So, technically the number of candidates is quite large but in practice the number is actually extremely small.

Oct 02, 2018 06:36 PM #77

@JayHawkFanToo "...since in the early days of the republic there were not many law schools and a law degree was not a requirement to be admitted to the bar, the requirement was to “read” the law and to learn under the tutelage of a practicing attorney."

University of Michigan Law School proudly claims Clarence Darrow as an alum. Apparently, besides our liberal bent and representing crooks (um, er, accused crooks), we had something else in common: he disliked law school, too. So he quit, and went to read for the law (late 1800's). Alas, I didn't have that choice in Kansas (but I was tempted to do the quitting part).

Reading the bronze plaque at UM about Darrow was how I learned that the technical definition of alum just means someone who attended. Not necessarily a graduate!

Oct 02, 2018 06:54 PM #78

@mayjay even if it's a 3 credit online course? (I might have to look at the KU coursebook)

Oct 02, 2018 07:11 PM #79

@approxinfinity check unc

Oct 02, 2018 07:26 PM #80

@Crimsonorblue22 :) good one

Oct 02, 2018 07:34 PM #81

approxinfinity said:

@mayjay even if it's a 3 credit online course? (I might have to look at the KU coursebook)

I think Clarence Darrow's online courses did not count.

Oct 04, 2018 06:42 PM #82

“The PEOPLE get it far better than the politicians,” Trump wrote. “Most importantly, this great life cannot be ruined by mean & despicable Democrats and totally uncorroborated allegations!”

"Trump – khuilo!"

Oct 04, 2018 07:00 PM #83

@JayHawkFanToo

That Mitchell memo has one key flaw that no one on here is discussing - Mitchell only evaluates what Dr. Ford said

If Mitchell were truly approaching this like a prosecutor or investigator would, she would have also included analysis of Judge Kavanaugh's statements and behavior during the hearing and subsequent interviews. She did not.

Mitchell pokes holes in Dr. Ford's memory and points to the inconsistencies revealed there. However, she does not discuss anything that Judge Kavanaugh said, or if there were inconsistencies between his senate testimony and any interviews, or if he offered any contradictions, etc. She did not analyze his behavior and mannerisms during the hearing that she attended.

While this may not have changed her opinion, not including it in the report makes the validity of the report very shaky since she did not include half of what she witnessed with her own eyes. That's an important omission.

Oct 04, 2018 11:26 PM #84

@justanotherfan One of her former colleagues, whom she actually trained in sex-crime prosecutions, wrote an article totally trashing Mitchell's memo as result-oriented "BS" for much of the reasons you discuss.

Oct 04, 2018 11:32 PM #85

@mayjay We are supposed to believe one entitled plutocrat with everything to lose over tons of women with no reason to lie. :thinking:

Oct 04, 2018 11:33 PM #86

STATUS OF BRETT KAVANAUGH PERJURIES

Perjury ("Renate Alumnius"): CONFIRMED

Perjury ("Devil's Triangle"): CONFIRMED

Perjury ("FFFF"): CONFIRMED

Perjury ("boofing"): CONFIRMED

Perjury ("Bart"): CONFIRMED

Perjury (no blackouts): CONFIRMED

Perjury (no groping): CONFIRMED

Oct 05, 2018 12:14 AM #87

I've never seen so much bullshit pawned off as truth in my life as I've seen in this thread. There's a completely uncorroborated accusation against a good man for political reasons. I don't believe her and NOTHING has been presented to substantiate her claims.

As a matter of FACT there is plenty to show she is lying at least as far as Kavanaugh is concerned.

So now Dems are moving the goalposts to now unfit. More BS for sure. I've seen how people react on here and that is just cause someone disagreed with your opinion. I think Kavanaugh took it too easy on Judiciary Dems. They all make Trump look like he displays more than a modicum of civility and tact.

Oct 05, 2018 12:23 AM #88

!0_1538699166560_image.jpeg ↗

Oct 05, 2018 01:30 AM #89

@Bwag your definition of "good man" differs from mine

Oct 05, 2018 01:43 AM #90

approxinfinity said:

@Bwag your definition of "good man" differs from mine

I had a lot typed on this subject but kept backspacing to be civil. I couldn't really make it work. Suffice to say I agree with you.

Oct 05, 2018 01:50 AM #91

@Bwag Well, you can keep calling it uncorroborated or unsupported, or you can say the earth is flat a thousand times, but repetition doesn't make what you say true.

Polygraph showing no deception, many witnesses to Kavanaugh being an out-of-control drunk, book by Mark Judge about "Bart" Kavanaugh's wild behavior, Kavanaugh's own letter (signed "Bart") describing his group as loud obnoxious drunks, the calendar, the yearbook, his false testimony about those....Hmmm, he has always upheld polygraphs as a law enforcement tool. Wanna bet he would refuse to take one?

Incidentally, Dems have always wanted more time, more documents, and a more thorough investigation. The Republicans withheld over 40,000 pages of documents and dumped the rest on Senators the night before the originally scheduled vote. Dems have without success provided dozens of names of people to be interviewed, only to run into the Republican brick wall.

Former Justice John Paul Stevens, a Republican appointee to the Court, knows a little something about what qualifies a judge to be a Justice and, after watching Kavanaugh become unhinged in a prepared sworn statement, says Senators should reject him (after initially believing the opposite) due to his partisan and intemperate performance. 2,400 law professors and even the National Council of Churches have said the same. Dems didn't move the goalposts--Kavanaugh went racing the other direction, almost frothing at the mouth while spouting conspiracy theories and evincing a horrifying disrespect for members of another branch of government, for anyone of a different political bent, and for anyone daring to have criticized or even questioned him.

But all that being said, you might be surprised that I would admit that I do not necessarily believe Dr Ford's allegation that it was him, or if the details tracked her recollection even if she believed him. There is a fundamental problem in trying to resurrect information about an event almost 4 decades old. That is why statutes of limitations set limits on when claims can be raised--witnesses die, memories fade or get confused, documents get lost (I thought my calendars I have kept since 1984 were crazy!)...it is just impossible to prove guilt or innocence so we don't try in civil or criminal law. An exception is for murder--and arguably a Supreme Court appointment warrants that higher level of scrutiny.

My personal bottom line from my own experience as a criminal lawyer, as an appellate lawyer who argued in US Courts of Appeals in Florida and D.C., and as a judge for 19 years: I have never before seen someone who is raising falsified claims repeatedly ask--make that literally beg--for a thorough police investigation or pass a polygraph exam given by a former FBI examiner. Fun fact: none of my >400 convicted criminal appeals clients asked us to arrange a polygraph regardless of how vociferously they contended other people had set them up. And, conversely, I have never seen anyone who was innocent refuse to agree to a more extensive investigation, however long it would take, to prove their lack of complicity. Innocent people welcome investigation. I think she believed her testimony, but I do not know without an honest inquiry whether her testimony was in fact accurate.

Still, to me the issue is not whether he did or didn't do it. The issue is whether his record, his conduct, and his testimony demonstated his status as someone whose integrity and temperament should elevate him to the highest judicial rank in the land. To me, the burden was on Kavanaugh throughout the process, just as it is on anyone seeking such a role. He did not carry that burden, and demeaned himself in the process. All things considered, the country can do better, and has, in finding a brilliant candidate--even a conservative one meeting every one of Republican criteria (except possibly a demonstrated anti-Democrat animus).

So what are Republicans so afraid of?

Oct 05, 2018 01:51 AM #92

@mayjay thank you for taking the time. :100: Well said.

Oct 05, 2018 01:57 AM #93

@approxinfinity Thanks. I write all that out to explore my own thoughts because I know my brother would not let me talk long enough before spraying diatribes about "libtard" and "Demoncrats," which kind of hurts the ability to explore deep topics or subtle distinctions between fact and belief.

Oct 05, 2018 05:06 AM #94

@mayjay

First let me say glad to see you survived. Excellent.
Hope the Hurricane didn't do to much damage to your life and belongings.

True a testimony is considered evidence, but it does not mean that is a fact. Many people as I'm sure you know have lied under oath. Sadly Ford's testimony can't be denied nor confirmed, because it so lacking of any hard evidence. In fact the so called witness she claims were there deny any connection to this get together. Even her best friend at this time denies and has no relocation of such a party let alone the incident the Ford claims took place.

No this isn't a criminal trial. Yet these unproven accusations can and probably already have ruined Judge Kavanaugh's life.

This theory that just because she came forward she must be believed is flawed in everyway. You know it and so do I.

Also Kavanaugh has been more vetted than any other Supreme Court justice in the history of the court by a landslide. All this is a delay to get to the midterms.

Also this concept of just pick another judge is the devil in the details. As there wouldn't be enough time before the midterms to carry out the process of another nominee. Meaning the House and the Senate can have a whole new look by the time they get back around to the filling the spot on the Supreme Court thereby changing the process.

Maybe some would say it's not about politics. Yet as with the case with Kavanaugh you had Dems on record saying they would not vote for him even before the Hearings started. So to say hey just pick another nominee isn't being quite truthful. As we both know a house and Senate ran by Dems will never allow any of Trumps picks to be voted to the supreme court.

It wouldn't matter how qualified they were.

Oct 05, 2018 05:12 AM #95

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-were-brett-kavanaughs-drinking-buddies-we-dont-think-he-should-be-confirmed/2018/10/04/923cf6ac-c821-11e8-b2b5-79270f9cce17_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.053ae7718fbc ↗

@DoubleDD do you dispute that Brett Kavanaugh lied under oath about his drinking?

Oct 05, 2018 11:59 AM #96

@DoubleDD He is also the only person whose nomination for the Court elicited multiple allegations of sexual assault, whose nomination is opposed by thousands of law professors, whose nomination is opposed by a former Justice (a lifelong Republican), and whose testimony about his prior behavior has been assailed as perjured by multiple people who were his friends during the time period in question.

Watching Kavanaugh's anguish about defending himself, and reading his WSJ op-ed where he tried to justify his vicious conduct at the hearing, I found myself wondering if we need to help him make a claim from a Victimizers' Compensation Fund.

Oct 05, 2018 12:47 PM #97

@approxinfinity so your problem with him is that he drank too much in college? Or do you believe Dr. Fords testimony that can’t be backed up by anyone...?

Oct 05, 2018 01:15 PM #98

@Woodrow I have a problem with him lying under oath. To me that's a disqualifier from taking a lifetime seat on the highest court in the country.. i also believe that as a blackout drunk which has been confirmed by many people It is easy to believe three women that are accusing him with nothing to gain and everything to lose from doing so. If you want to turn a blind eye to all of that then I guess that's your prerogative.

Oct 05, 2018 01:20 PM #99

The issue isn't whether or not he drank too much in college at this point. It's that he lied about it. It's okay to be an idiot kid. It's not okay to be a lying adult.

At this point, the Ford testimony is irrelevant. I don't even get to that piece when deciding whether or not I want him on the Supreme Court. It is about how he can't own up to even the tiniest stupid things he's done 38 years ago. Be an adult and own up to the things you've done in your life. If you can't even do that, how the hell do you deserve to serve as a Supreme Court Justice?

Oct 05, 2018 01:20 PM #100

@mayjay

You'll have to excuse me if I chuckle when you bring up law professors. You haven't figured out what everybody else knows that the education system at all levels has been high jacked by the Liberal ideology. And good God man, he's sitting there watching is life's work being destroyed by a unverified accusation. Even a poster in KU Buckets called him a child molester. I would get upset too.

No I would rather take the word from those that have worked with Judge Kavanaugh. People that have actually been around the man. Which appears to be 1000s and 1000s of women from his past and that worked with him through out his career. All agreeing that Kavanaugh was a great guy and person. So much they all signed a letter.

This is and was a smear campaign. The Dem party was going to do anything to keep the that seat open until after the midterms. Even if it meant destroying a mans life.

Oh I see you watch Racheal Maddow? Yea I watch her every once in awhile. A bit to hard care left me.

Oct 05, 2018 01:29 PM #101

@Kcmatt7

I'm not sure why? How much Kavanaugh drank as a teenager has anything to do with him being a supreme court Justice?

Are you guys going to be this hard when the Dem party has a pick for the supreme court? Yea I didn't think so.

Or is this all smoke and mirrors. Just trying to hold the seat open till after the midterms?

@approxinfinity

That's your cold hard evidence? First one big flaw in this piece. A true friend would never do that to another friend. Never.

Oct 05, 2018 01:30 PM #102

Republican politicians are going to work the angles on what they are doing all the way to a confirmation, so their constituents can sleep at night. The whole thing is a farce. This is not how you select a Supreme Court Justice.

Oct 05, 2018 01:32 PM #103

@DoubleDD I don't understand what you are saying.

Oct 05, 2018 01:33 PM #104

@DoubleDD I will take three women's allegations of sexual assault seriously even if it's a candidate selected by a Democratic president, yes. I will take lying under oath seriously, yes. I will take blatant partisan rhetoric being shouted at the Senate like an angry partisan hack seriously, yes. Come on man.

Oct 05, 2018 01:35 PM #105

@DoubleDD You probably watch her more than I do since my sum total of viewing Maddow over, say, the past 3 years is literally at most 20 minutes, but thanks for proving you are making up straw arguments.

As to law schools being captured by some left wing educational conspiracy, you will find that law professors are largely not part of that. And the signers of the letter range widely in political orientation. Good job ignoring Stevens.

I am curious: how did the evil liberal conspirators manage to find Ford, convince her to bring a charge that raises wild drunkenness allegations against someone whose own later-produced materials describe himself and others as an obnovious drunk, manufacture 2 therapists' 5 year old notes, train her to pass a polygraph, and successfully coach her in testifying convincingly, all in a 6 week period of time?

More importantly, why is lying at a Senate hearing not important?

Oct 05, 2018 01:35 PM #106

approxinfinity said:

Republican politicians and going to work the angles on what they are doing all the way to a confirmation, so their constituents can sleep at night. The whole thing is a farce. This is not how you select a Supreme Court Justice.

The Republicans has given into every demand the Dem party and Ford wanted.

Good God man Kanvanaugh has been vetted by the FBI 6 times, not including the latest investigation.

Why can't you just see that this was just an attempt to keep the seat open until after the mid terms.

Oh it appears the Republican base has awoken because the Kavanaugh mistreatment. So much for the big blue wave.

Oct 05, 2018 01:35 PM #107

@approxinfinity there's no point arguing with you about this because you ignore the meat of what people's problems with Kavanaugh are.

Oct 05, 2018 01:36 PM #108

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD I will take three women's allegations of sexual assault seriously even if it's a candidate selected by a Democratic president, yes. I will take lying under oath seriously, yes. I will take blatant partisan rhetoric being shouted at the Senate like an angry partisan hack seriously, yes. Come on man.

Then where was you and the Dem party when Bill Clinton was having sex in with midterms in the oval office?

Oct 05, 2018 01:39 PM #109

@mayjay

Actually I think that Ford was a victim too. All of sudden her story pops out just as Kavanaugh was about to be confirmed. Um interesting. Especially since Feinstien had been sitting on this accusation for how long?

Oct 05, 2018 01:40 PM #110

@DoubleDD that question makes no sense.

Oct 05, 2018 01:43 PM #111

@DoubleDD You should not portray people with differing view points as one lump entity and then form your beliefs as counterpoint to that fictional entity. This is straight out of the Fox News playbook. Come on man. Be better than that. Talk to individuals on the merits regarding the issue at hand.

Oct 05, 2018 01:43 PM #112

@approxinfinity

Hey if you don't like the guy that's fine. Yet to submarine this person as a child molester and rapist when there is no evidence. That's just wrong.

He said, She said is fraught with endless allegations.

Oct 05, 2018 01:45 PM #113

@DoubleDD again you are picking one talking point and ignoring all other problems that have been stated here as to why he is unfit. This isn't about whether I like him or not. It's whether he belongs on the Supreme Court.

Oct 05, 2018 01:45 PM #114

@DoubleDD Every demand?

Let's see, producing documents of work he did as hatchet man for Starr?...no.

More time to review the documents produced the night before the first scheduled vote?...barely, only because of other issues.

Subpoenaing other witnesses involved in the alleged behavior?...no.

Comprehensive investigation by the FBI before having Ford and Kavanaugh testify?...no.

Comprehensive FBI investigation after the hearing, including direct interviewing of F and K, and interviewing dozens of people who contacted the FBI with info?....no.

Releasing those prior FBI investigations about which there is a dispute as to how absolving they are?...no.

Releasing this investigation, or even the directive the FBI was given in conducting it?...no.

Yep, the Republucans have bent over backwards to bring transparency to the process.

Oct 05, 2018 01:49 PM #115

@approxinfinity

Ok I get it you guys think he drank to much beer in college. Got it.

I see you avoided my question on Bill Clinton? lol

You'll have a good day now.

Oct 05, 2018 01:50 PM #116

DoubleDD said:

@mayjay

Actually I think that Ford was a victim too. All of sudden her story pops out just as Kavanaugh was about to be confirmed. Um interesting. Especially since Feinstien had been sitting on this accusation for how long?

I want you to tell me how the conspiracy found her to bring a complaint. This has nothing to do with Feinstein's actions after getting the complaint.

Oct 05, 2018 01:51 PM #117

@DoubleDD When Bill Clinton is nominated for the Supreme Court and I'm not a high schooler who didn't care about politics your question will start to make sense.

Oct 05, 2018 01:51 PM #118

@mayjay

Lets face it the Dem party and Libs were never going to be happy with the Kavanaugh confirmation. It was just going to be one endless investigation after another.
At some point you just have to say enough is enough.

Have a good day.

Oct 05, 2018 01:52 PM #119

@DoubleDD thank you for my daily Fox News briefing.

Oct 05, 2018 01:54 PM #120

@DoubleDD Face it: you have no answers to the specifics approx and I have been attempting to bring up with you. Look at our posts, look at yours. We are discussing facts; you are making ideological attacks on other people.

We win!

Oct 05, 2018 01:55 PM #121

DoubleDD said:

@mayjay

Lets face it the Dem party and Libs were never going to be happy with the Kavanaugh confirmation. It was just going to be one endless investigation after another.
At some point you just have to say enough is enough.

Have a good day.

Funny, I don't see Democrats penalizing their caucus members that would confirm him unlike what happened with Merrick Garland. Weird.

Oct 05, 2018 01:57 PM #122

@DoubleDD don’t forget he threw ice at someone !!

Oct 05, 2018 01:58 PM #123

approxinfinity said:

@Woodrow I have a problem with him lying under oath. To me that's a disqualifier from taking a lifetime seat on the highest court in the country.. i also believe that as a blackout drunk which has been confirmed by many people It is easy to believe three women that are accusing him with nothing to gain and everything to lose from doing so. If you want to turn a blind eye to all of that then I guess that's your prerogative.

He can't even resist lying in a fake apology.

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Oct 05, 2018 01:58 PM #124

I want you guys to ask yourself a question. You don't have to answer here. And I mean this not as a snark but I just hope you have a few instances that come to mind. I want you to ask yourself "when have I disagreed with Fox News?" I can ask myself the same of any news source I frequent and I have examples.

Oct 05, 2018 02:04 PM #125

mayjay said:

@DoubleDD You probably watch her more than I do since my sum total of viewing Maddow over, say, the past 3 years is literally at most 20 minutes, but thanks for proving you are making up straw arguments.

As to law schools being captured by some left wing educational conspiracy, you will find that law professors are largely not part of that. And the signers of the letter range widely in political orientation. Good job ignoring Stevens.

I am curious: how did the evil liberal conspirators manage to find Ford, convince her to bring a charge that raises wild drunkenness allegations against someone whose own later-produced materials describe himself and others as an obnovious drunk, manufacture 2 therapists' 5 year old notes, train her to pass a polygraph, and successfully coach her in testifying convincingly, all in a 6 week period of time?

More importantly, why is lying at a Senate hearing not important?

They even set up psychology sessions many years ago because they have a time machine and knew this nomination was coming. Very ingenious, poor Republicans never stood a chance with the Democrats having a time machine.

Oct 05, 2018 02:06 PM #126

mayjay said:

@DoubleDD Every demand?

Let's see, producing documents of work he did as hatchet man for Starr?...no.

More time to review the documents produced the night before the first scheduled vote?...barely, only because of other issues.

Subpoenaing other witnesses involved in the alleged behavior?...no.

Comprehensive investigation by the FBI before having Ford and Kavanaugh testify?...no.

Comprehensive FBI investigation after the hearing, including direct interviewing of F and K, and interviewing dozens of people who contacted the FBI with info?....no.

Releasing those prior FBI investigations about which there is a dispute as to how absolving they are?...no.

Releasing this investigation, or even the directive the FBI was given in conducting it?...no.

Yep, the Republucans have bent over backwards to bring transparency to the process.

Looks like no answers for this one...

Oct 05, 2018 02:14 PM #127

DoubleDD said:

@Kcmatt7

I'm not sure why? How much Kavanaugh drank as a teenager has anything to do with him being a supreme court Justice?

Are you guys going to be this hard when the Dem party has a pick for the supreme court? Yea I didn't think so.

Or is this all smoke and mirrors. Just trying to hold the seat open till after the midterms?

I'm as much of a moderate as anyone on this board. I just posted in another thread about how much I like Trump's tariffs.

So quit trying to put me in a box when I am as objective as anyone on this board. I will absolutely criticize any Supreme Court Justice Candidate, conservative or liberal, for lying. I have made other posts on this subject that have said if he was just honest about being a teenager who drank this would have moved right on through.

To be clear, I don't give a shit what he lied about. I care that he lied. On the stand, under oath.. When he is supposed to be one of 9 people in this country in a position of pure integrity. The fact that you could care less if he is a liar says everything about you and the Republican's that are backing him. You don't give a shit about the integrity of the Supreme Court. You just care that the Republicans get a win. And that is the problem with the two party system.

Oct 05, 2018 02:25 PM #128

So look, I'm in favor of them moving on to the next candidate when that person will be just as much of a Republican attack dog. This isn't about politics for me, it's about the fact that he is a pathological liar.

Oct 05, 2018 03:19 PM #129

@DoubleDD

Why Kavanaugh? That's the real question for Republicans here. It's not like Kavanaugh is the only conservative judge that could be nominated to the Supreme Court. There are at least two dozen justices out there with the type of background, as well as being very conservative in their rulings, that they could easily take Brett Kavanaugh's place.

The GOP could have asked the President to pull the Kavanaugh nomination the instant the allegations surfaced and confirmed another conservative judge, even without any Democratic votes because the GOP has the majority. Instead, they insist that it has to be Kavanaugh despite the issues that have arisen, and despite the backlash it is causing, and despite his own handling of this.

When Clarence Thomas faced harassment allegations, you did not see him fly off the handle and go on an explosive, angry rant during his confirmation hearings.

Again, I ask simply - Why Kavanaugh? The GOP wants a conservative court. There are other judges that would be just as conservative, and some that would likely be even more conservative than Kavanaugh. If the goal is simply a conservative majority on the court, there are probably 20 other judges out there that could accomplish that goal.

So why Brett Kavanaugh?

Oct 05, 2018 03:31 PM #130

John Cornyn is a piece of work.

"What good that could come out of this is if more women come forward with [allegations of sexual assault]".... So they too can be ignored.

Oct 05, 2018 03:53 PM #131

Woodrow said:

@DoubleDD don’t forget he threw ice at someone !!

Yea all common sense goes out the window with these guys. But they are great KU basketball fans.

Funny thing he admitted under oath that he drank to much at times as a teenager. Yet somehow he lied? Just another claim without any evidence. I guess.

Oct 05, 2018 04:01 PM #132

C-SPAN is showing Dick Durbins response, CNN and Fox are not

Oct 05, 2018 04:12 PM #133

@justanotherfan

Its a good question you ask. Can't say I really know. Though I can say contrary to popular belief by many among here. That Kavanaugh was more than qualified to be a supreme court justice. His judicial record is quite good, and is respected by many of his profession from both sides of the aisle.

My guess is the timing of the nominee and the political perception that would follow. Remember the Ford allegations didn't break until he was about to be confirmed. With midterms coming not sure the Reps wanted to take the chance of starting over with a new nominee. As they were fearful of losing control of the House and the Senate. Making it impossible for a Trump nominee from ever making it to the Supreme Court.

Oct 05, 2018 04:15 PM #134

Like Durbin said, according to the Republican narrative Ford is both a credible person and this is also a smear campaign. She's either telling the truth or she isn't. But they don't need to choose which it is because they know Republican voters don't care. Somehow Ford is credible but Kavanaugh is a good man that doesn't lie. Its all magic.

Oct 05, 2018 04:20 PM #135

@approxinfinity

To each it's own. If you want to punish a person without any evidence and solely of the mere testimony of one person. Then that is your prerogative.

Oct 05, 2018 04:22 PM #136

@DoubleDD do you know the following terms, boofing, Devil's Triangle, and fffff?

Oct 05, 2018 04:23 PM #137

@DoubleDD there are glaring omissions in your world view.

Oct 05, 2018 04:23 PM #138

More of an opinion thought here. I wander if Grassly wouldn't have stolen the Garland pick if things wouldn't be so hostile on the Kavanaugh. pick. Just a thought.

Sometimes in life you reap what you sow.

Oct 05, 2018 04:24 PM #139

approxinfinity said:

@DoubleDD there are glaring omissions in your world view.

Yours likewise.

Oct 05, 2018 04:26 PM #140

@approxinfinity you're wasting your breath, if God came down and told Dble d the facts, he still wouldn't see them.

Oct 05, 2018 04:27 PM #141

Charles Grassley is a mysogynistic piece of shit.

Oct 05, 2018 04:32 PM #142

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@approxinfinity you're wasting your breath, if God came down and told Dble d the facts, he still wouldn't see them.

And what facts are those Crimson?

Oct 05, 2018 04:46 PM #143

@DoubleDD Ok. Which piece of information am I failing to account for? Not which opinion or rhetoric I'm disagreeing with, which information am I ignoring? For instance,the fact that you repeatedly have referred to the one person accusing Kavanaugh, ignoring that there are other accusers. Am I omitting something like that? The fact that he lied about being of age to drink and downplayed the extent of his drinking saying he never didn't know what was going on when many of his drinking friends have said they saw him drunk to the point of not knowing what was going on. Do you dispute that he mischaracterized his drinking? Do you dispute that he lied about drinking legally?

Here's what he said:

My friends and I sometimes got together and had parties on weekends. The drinking age was 18 in Maryland for most of my time in high school, and was 18 in D.C. for all of my time in high school. I drank beer with my friends. Almost everyone did. Sometimes I had too many beers. Sometimes others did. I liked beer. I still like beer. But I did not drink beer to the point of blacking out, and I never sexually assaulted anyone.

Oct 05, 2018 04:58 PM #144

@DoubleDD

It's been more than three weeks since rumblings of the allegations became public, and two and a half weeks since Dr. Ford came forward. Had the GOP pulled the nomination then, they could have still put forward someone to confirm before the midterms.

Allegations surfaced on Sept 12. Blasey Ford came forward Sept 16.

If the GOP does an investigation to see if this allegation has legs, they can still decide by the 20th that they want to pull the nomination. Trump nominates someone new on the 24th, and the GOP provides documentation that same day (or soon after).

Remember, many Republican senators didn't want to proceed with Kavanaugh anyway because of his huge paper trail from his time working in Ken Starr's office and in the W. Bush White House.

If they pull him and nominate someone with a less voluminous paper trail, he or she could have been nominated, vetted and a vote scheduled for three weeks from today.

Would the Democrats have liked this new pick? Probably not, because it still would have been a conservative. But it would not have been as politically troublesome as this has become. There was an easier path than this.

Oct 05, 2018 05:05 PM #145

The Democrats would have thrown a fit over anyone that Trump nominated. That seems to be the new thing for them. The damn NY Times ran a article about Kavanaugh throwing ice at someone! Seriously step back and think about that for a minute. It is laughable that people think if Trump and the Republicans nominated someone else that the Democrats wouldn't have found something else to bitch about.

Oct 05, 2018 05:12 PM #146

Ricky Rubio, today, speaking about Ford's allegations....

"it was also wrong to dismiss these allegations without looking into them as some did, almost like a reflex."

Ricky Rubio on Friday, Sept 28th, when he was in favor of voting on Kavanaugh and not having an FBI investigation:

“This entire ordeal is indicative of something that goes beyond the nomination before us. It has revealed how our culture has become increasingly sick and demented, unmoored from the values upon which this great nation was founded and which have allowed our society to flourish.I will not vote against the nomination of someone who I am otherwise inclined to support and in the process add credence to charges which have already done permanent damage to his reputation, on the basis of allegations for which there is no independent corroboration and which are at odds with everything else we have heard about his character". He also said Senators against had “disgraced themselves” and that this was a “dark moment in the Senate’s history.”

Such BS. Just own it dude.

Oct 05, 2018 05:18 PM #147

justanotherfan said:

@DoubleDD

Why Kavanaugh? That's the real question for Republicans here. It's not like Kavanaugh is the only conservative judge that could be nominated to the Supreme Court. There are at least two dozen justices out there with the type of background, as well as being very conservative in their rulings, that they could easily take Brett Kavanaugh's place.

The GOP could have asked the President to pull the Kavanaugh nomination the instant the allegations surfaced and confirmed another conservative judge, even without any Democratic votes because the GOP has the majority. Instead, they insist that it has to be Kavanaugh despite the issues that have arisen, and despite the backlash it is causing, and despite his own handling of this.

When Clarence Thomas faced harassment allegations, you did not see him fly off the handle and go on an explosive, angry rant during his confirmation hearings.

Again, I ask simply - Why Kavanaugh? The GOP wants a conservative court. There are other judges that would be just as conservative, and some that would likely be even more conservative than Kavanaugh. If the goal is simply a conservative majority on the court, there are probably 20 other judges out there that could accomplish that goal.

So why Brett Kavanaugh?

@justanotherfan

Trump believes Kavanaugh would provide cover since Kavanaugh has indicated he doesn't believe a sitting president can be held accountable should he be charged with certain acts that may be criminal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/07/11/does-brett-kavanaugh-think-the-president-is-immune-from-criminal-charges/?utm_term=.9d7a5b052919 ↗
Apparently other potential SCOTUS judicial candidates do not agree with Kavanaugh's position, making Kavanaugh Trump's "golden boy."

Oct 05, 2018 05:33 PM #148

Roy Blunt, on Merrick Garland treatment being compared to Kavanaugh's treatment: "theres no comparison. Before Merrick Garland, the last time a Supreme Court nominee was confirmed when nominated in a president's last year was 1985.

Guess why? Because Supreme Court justices don't decide to die.

Potter Stewart
(1915–1985)

Antonin Scalia
(1936–2016)

The transparent BS parade continues.

... and "we talked to all the witnesses I know of, regarding credible charges".

Oct 05, 2018 05:42 PM #149

Writing appears to be on the wall and he'll be confirmed regardless how any of us feel. I don't know which base will be most fired up come November. But the timing of this will certainly make sure people get out and vote.

Oct 05, 2018 05:53 PM #150

James Inhofe "innocent until proven guilty, thats what is on trial here". No, it's not a criminal trial, but good job toeing the party talking points.

Oct 05, 2018 07:26 PM #151

Susan Collins decrying dark money while confirming Kavanaugh. Ohhhhhh the irony.

Oct 05, 2018 07:36 PM #152

@BShark You referring to this? https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/oct/05/jon-tester/how-much-dark-money-fueling-kavanaugh-confirmation/ ↗

Oct 05, 2018 07:39 PM #153

Shame on you, Senator Collins. Game over.

Oct 05, 2018 07:48 PM #154

approxinfinity said:

Shame on you, Senator Collins. Game over.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a23621362/brett-kavanaugh-supreme-court-legitimacy-collapse/ ↗

Oct 05, 2018 10:07 PM #155

@BShark Hey man I feel really blessed lol - the President gonna be in town tomorrow ought to be fun lol

Oct 05, 2018 10:44 PM #156

@jayballer73 blessed are the meek for they shall be the subject of our president's rally ridicule.

Oct 05, 2018 11:08 PM #157

approxinfinity said:

@jayballer73 blessed are the meek for they shall be the subject of our president's rally ridicule.

lol, hell I'm just mad cause they are going to have my boulevard blocked - - -can't get to Walmart- - -or Sonic lmao

Oct 06, 2018 07:32 PM #158

@mayjay2

Two things only:

1) Polygraph - why won't they share the notes and video of the polygraph? Indications are that there were only 2 questions, something along the lines of "Do you believe your statement is true". But let's see the facts about it.

2) As to witnesses asking for an investigation and your extensive background with that.

How many of those cases took place in a highly charged political climate with balance of Supreme Court in the balance and a midterm election pending that had implications on said SCOTUS "advise and consent" power of the Senate?

I'm gonna to presume to take a wild guess at this having no knowledge beyond what you provided here on KU Buckets about your background and experience, and answer ZERO.

Therefore, your circumstantial evidence kinda falls into all the other supporting arguments like "most women who..."

Zero relevance to the facts at hand which all add up, when including circumstantial and "hard" ( since there weren't any) facts to also ZERO.

The glove does not fit, you must acquit! 👼😉

Oct 06, 2018 07:34 PM #159

@approxinfinity I might, but I find it inconsequential to even consider it. As will all fair-minded Americans.

Oct 06, 2018 07:35 PM #160

@approxinfinity hey, bring a blue dress with a stain on it and we'll listen to you on this.

Oct 06, 2018 07:37 PM #161

@DoubleDD yeah, I didn't see many complain about Obama's smoking pot. That at least was an illegal substance - despite recent trends in lawmaking to the contrary.

Oct 06, 2018 07:38 PM #162

@approxinfinity well you are partly right, last second unsubstantiated character assassination and smearing is below standard Senatorial behavior.

Oct 06, 2018 07:40 PM #163

@approxinfinity so Keith Ellison, vice-Chair of the DNC and Minnesota AG candidate should quit that race?

Oct 06, 2018 07:42 PM #164

@approxinfinity the issue isn't ignoring the meat of the issue. It's having seen the accusations, we're left asking, "Where's the beef?" - Wendy

Oct 06, 2018 07:43 PM #165

@DoubleDD it's not even "He said, she said". It's "She said" and he wasn't even there.

Oct 06, 2018 07:45 PM #166

@Woodrow I heard a neighbor from his childhood would testify that he pulled a girls hair when he was 6. But only would come forward if there was an FBI investigation.

Oct 06, 2018 07:46 PM #167

@approxinfinity barely watch it since I don't have cable or satellite.

Oct 06, 2018 07:47 PM #168

@BShark yawn

Oct 06, 2018 07:49 PM #169

@justanotherfan Kavanaugh is probably more a centrist or barely center-right. You'll gonna love it when Amy Barrett is nominated to take Notorious RBG's spot when she finally slips off into that final sleep. What's the over-under on days until that, and will it occur while sitting in session?

Oct 06, 2018 07:50 PM #170

@approxinfinity she's not credible. None of her details add up or have remained consistent.

Oct 06, 2018 07:53 PM #171

@BShark don't you have to believe the woman?

Oct 06, 2018 07:55 PM #172

@approxinfinity if all of this crap is a lie (as I do, and many others) and you look at all the real evidence about his life and character,M then yes, he's a good man.

Maybe not as good a man as Sen Booker's friend T-Bone, but he's right there!

Oct 06, 2018 09:13 PM #173

That was a lengthy victory lap hoss.

Oct 06, 2018 09:53 PM #174

@Bwag No, mine only included several murder cases, a death penalty case, and about 10 people in prison under life sentences. Not anything as momentous as a Senate committee taking testimony.

Oct 06, 2018 10:11 PM #175

Half my family is outrageously happy- the other half is certain life as we know it will cease to exist. As for me, it's all Kabuki Theatre. The Bible doesn't say America saves the world. If they can't get Trump out, then they'll crash the stock market, and get him out that way. I'll say it again: it's much bigger than Repubs vs. Dems. Both sides have been compromised. We're the frog sitting in the cooking pan not noticing the heat is being turned up. The entire South American continent is on the verge of complete economic collapse. Country after country across the world are experiencing terrible financial woes. The bond market bubble is about to pop, and all that fake money, hot off the printing presses, is about to become worthless. Once a week, we see a story where someone is warning us that it's going to explode. In fact, the chairman of the FED said our great economic news isn't real. Now, Trump supporters probably shook that off as another sleight from the Trump derangers, but I think he was simply trying to cover his backside when it all goes to hell in a hand basket.

Oct 06, 2018 10:16 PM #176

@DoubleDD no, the problem with the entire thing is that they delved into whether he drank beer while in high school - come on, get real...! Glad that I haven't been nominated to the Supreme Court (the witness list would be extremely long, and America would grow bored and tired, having learned too much about themselves).

Oct 06, 2018 10:39 PM #177

!alt text ↗

lol

Oct 07, 2018 12:23 AM #178

And so there is finally this...only time will tell, but might be interesting to see if he aligns with Thomas after this ordeal and create an even more solid originalist foundation for Constitutional jurisprudence.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-10-05/kavanaugh-confirmation-battle-moves-supreme-court-further-right ↗

Some interesting analysis is out there that shows that Thomas has been moving the court to a more literalist interpretation than even Scalia had over the last decade or so.

Oct 07, 2018 12:25 AM #179

@Crimsonorblue22 are we prosecuting for HS now....and some of us on this board are willing to forgive our basketball players the benefit of the doubt for their college behavior. Just saying.

Oct 07, 2018 01:18 AM #180

Did I say hs?

Oct 08, 2018 02:25 PM #181

Bwag said:

@justanotherfan Kavanaugh is probably more a centrist or barely center-right. You'll gonna love it when Amy Barrett is nominated to take Notorious RBG's spot when she finally slips off into that final sleep. What's the over-under on days until that, and will it occur while sitting in session?

Unfortunately, that's just not true. Kavanaugh is fairly conservative.

Fivethirtyeight ↗ has a judicial score that determines how liberal or conservative a judge is, based on their past rulings.

To no surprise, Justice Sotomayor and Justice Ginsburg are the most liberal on the current court. However, Kavanaugh is only slightly to the left of Clarence Thomas, who is easily the most conservative judge on the SCOTUS, and well to the right of Gorsuch and Alito, both clearly conservative justices.

Perhaps Kavanaugh will be more moderate on the court. There is a history of justices moving more to the middle once they get to the SCOTUS, but even then, he probably is to the right of Gorsuch and Alito, and still well right of Roberts (who himself is barely within the moderate quadrant).

Oct 20, 2018 12:15 AM #182

!alt text ↗

Nov 05, 2018 04:14 AM #183

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/3/another-kavanaugh-accuser-admits-fabricating-rape-/ ↗

Yikes

Nov 05, 2018 05:30 AM #184

Here is the entire FBI report ↗. Looks like none of the accusations could be even remotely corroborated. Read it (if you have the time) and form your own opinion,

Nov 05, 2018 05:36 AM #185

Yep as I figured it was mostly made up BS. Anyone with any amount of common sense could thousands, literally thousands of holes in most the stories. Not to mention most people don’t take criminal accusations to politicians, they take them to the police.

Nov 05, 2018 05:51 AM #186

@justanotherfan I know your post is kinda old but which do you prefer as a judge? Liberal or conservative? I don’t consider my self either but being a foster parent for 7 years I pray to god I never have to sit in another court room with a liberal judge. I have literally seen it cost children their lives because the judge gives abusers and addicts 10 or 15 chances before they try to take parental rights. A conservative gives them about 3 before they allow the kid to be adopted.

Nov 05, 2018 12:27 PM #187

@BShark Washington times is a spin rag. This accuser wasnt on the table in the first place with the investigation. Who cares? This is feel good mop up duty for people who supported Kavanaugh. Nothing has changed as far as the picture of his character. Justice Stevens, the ABA, and his other detractors have moved on.

Nov 05, 2018 01:58 PM #188

@JayHawkFanToo I cannot find any FBI report in those 414 pages. This is Grassley's Committee Report. I like the fact that, rather than including an FBI report, the document footnotes a CNN story saying that Ramirez was interviewed by the FBI with no further information. Good to have such a thorough investigation.

I still want someone to explain how Ford went about making up this story by telling people about it in 2012, 2013, 2016, and 2017.

Nov 05, 2018 03:58 PM #189

@mayjay

The Ramirez case is presented in great detail in pages 14-17. A number of sources are cited and a number of individuals were interviewed and none would corroborate her story, in fact quite the contrary....of course all these pesky details will never be enough for some people. SMH.

If you do not want to read the entire report, perhaps you could read this summary ↗ about one item that had gone unreported until now.

Interesting that the only person that Ford “told” the name before Kavanaugh was mentioned as potential supreme was conveniently her husband, all others you mentioned happened after he went into the short list of potential nominees.

Just about every single assertion Ford made was uncorroborated by her own witness or rebutted by a number of other witnesses and some were even pressured to change testimony and now they are rightfully being investigated for tampering with evidence.

Again, you can believe whatever you want to believe even when the overwhelming evidence points the other way.

By the way, in 2012, 2013 I mentioned to friends that a college basketball coach at a well known program was going to be nominated to the Hall of Fame and in 2017 I did tell someone it was Coach Self.:smirk:

Nov 05, 2018 04:53 PM #190

@JayHawkFanToo My reference to the Ramirez case was about the alleged FBI interview, about which the report is silent except relying on a CNN report that they conducted one. Highly professional job, that. I looked at all 414 pages trying to find the FBI report because I couldn't imagine you getting something so blatantly wrong. I guess we are alike in thinking that.

So Ford lay in wait for several years, laying the groundwork with several references to friends about a federal judge, so she could conveniently ambush Kavanaugh whom she knew way back when? The mind boggles at the intricacies of the scheme.

Nov 05, 2018 07:14 PM #191

kjayhawks said:

@justanotherfan I know your post is kinda old but which do you prefer as a judge? Liberal or conservative? I don’t consider my self either but being a foster parent for 7 years I pray to god I never have to sit in another court room with a liberal judge. I have literally seen it cost children their lives because the judge gives abusers and addicts 10 or 15 chances before they try to take parental rights. A conservative gives them about 3 before they allow the kid to be adopted.

Both have their flaws.

Conservatives tend to side with the state quite a bit more, while liberals tend to try to avoid taking kids away, although that is by no means a hard and fast rule.

I have noticed that lots of people (not just directing at you) tend to say a judge is liberal or conservative based on a ruling they don't like. Judges make lots of rulings.

I would prefer judges that are more centrist, but probably slightly left, but that is mostly because that also aligns with my personal politics. The best judges aren't either liberal or conservative, but rule based on the facts before them. The reason we often end up with judges leaning one way or another is because the majority (whatever it may be at the time) attempts to bend the law in a certain direction to fit their own politics.

Conservatives have been wanting a "conservative court" for some time because they were frustrated that a lot of things got overturned by judges that they branded "liberal". The truth is, many of those judges were "conservative" politically, but ruled against the conservative position because it was not legally defensible.

As I have said before, when you are looking for specific outcomes rather than looking for the law to be applied, you will get judges that make rulings that are not consistent, like what happened earlier this year on the Supreme Court.

Nov 05, 2018 07:49 PM #192

@mayjay

OK, I should have written the Senate Judiciary report based on the FBI report and now you are going on and on on semantics rather than on the content of the report (based on the FBI report) that overwhelmingly contradicts the testimony of Ford and others about alleged wrong doings by Kavanaugh.

Did you read the part where someone else came forward and confessed to a consensual situation very similar to that cited by Ford but did not involve Kavanaugh? Of course not, it does not fit your narrative and you will continue to defend the indefensible despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

You are asking me to suspend reality, take two alleged statements and disregard the mountain of evidence to the contrary including allegations she made that proved to be false? You remind me of this NBC announcer...

Nov 05, 2018 08:31 PM #193

@JayHawkFanToo As always, you are arguing with someone else, rebutting positions I have not argued. I have never said Ford's allegations were true, only that I believe she believes them. And I have said it is too difficult to assess allegations about events that long ago, and that is why stautues of limitations exclude all but the most serious crime (murder) after a number of years.

What I have contended is that "uncorroborated" does not mean "disproven" and that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting an in-depth investigation, and that the issue of a supreme court nomination merits taking sufficient time. The guy who should welcome one if he is innocent has been protected by shoddy Committee work and a perfunctory FBI investigation. The person who should oppose one if she is lying has laid her life open. The Republicans can bitch about the timing all they want, but anything they say is the height of hypocrisy after they ignored their most sacred constitutional duty in 2016.

The report glosses over the evidence about Kavanaugh lying in the hearing. Literally thousands of legal scholars, attorneys, and judges believed his conduct in the hearing, including his partisan attacks, constituted an independent basis to oppose his nomination.

Enough on this. He was confirmed. Just watch out for your wishes coming true, because ideological partisans like K have a way of screwing up legal certainty for everybody.

Nov 05, 2018 08:51 PM #194

@mayjay

What I have contended is that “uncorroborated” does not mean “disproven” and that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting an in-depth investigation, and that the issue of a supreme court nomination merits taking sufficient time. The guy who should welcome one if he is innocent has been protected by shoddy Committee work and a perfunctory FBI investigation.

Actually, the majority of her claims have been disproven. How many in-depth investigations must there be? Wasn't he subject to several previous background checks (6?)? Didn't he indicate he welcomed an in-depth FBI investigation? Didn't the latest investigation not interview dozens of witnesses who not only did not corroborate her and other allegations but actually disproved them?

Now, if by in-depth investigation you mean one that would have lasted until the mid-term elections when the Democrats were hoping to win the Senate so he would not be confirmed...then no, the results of the investigation would have been the same since it has been done ad-nauseum and there is nothing left to investigate but a democrat majority would have rejected the nomination all the same.

You are pushing a narrative with no merit, You remind me of Richard Pryor when he got caught by his wife with another woman...

!0_1541451168473_upload-d4e9b875-7ef0-499c-b09d-d3d7a928aef6 ↗

Nov 07, 2018 02:54 AM #195

So coming out now that Kavanaugh accusers were lying. Sad!

Nov 07, 2018 03:01 AM #196

@Bwag I can accuse you of some crazy stuff and then you can renounce my claims if that makes you feel better about stuff too.

Nov 07, 2018 03:04 AM #197

@approxinfinity having fun. Glad it's bball season. But maybe good guys will win in elections tonight too! Lol

Nov 07, 2018 03:06 AM #198

Bwag said:

@approxinfinity having fun. Glad it's bball season. But maybe good guys will win in elections tonight too! Lol

Well, Paul Davis and Laura Kelly are ahead right now. :)

Nov 07, 2018 03:47 AM #199

@BShark I moved. Never had much use for Kansas.

Nov 07, 2018 03:59 AM #200

@Bwag Fair. I like how cheap it is to live here.

Nov 07, 2018 06:07 AM #201

Geez, I love living here.

Nov 07, 2018 05:44 PM #202

@mayjay Very well stated.

And Kavanaugh's tenure begins with some eerie parallelism.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/06/us/politics/supreme-court-death-penalty-kavanaugh.html ↗

“Are you saying,” he asked a lawyer for the state, “even if the method creates gruesome and brutal pain you can still do it because there’s no alternative?”

The lawyer, D. John Sauer, did not immediately give a direct response, and Justice Kavanaugh pressed him. “Is that a yes?” Justice Kavanaugh asked.

“Yes, it is, Your Honor,” Mr. Sauer said.

Nov 08, 2018 02:55 PM #203

@bskeet

I fear that Kavanaugh is a result based judge. He decides the outcome he wants, then looks for a legal rationale to support it. We will know soon enough, as those types of judges typically have conflicting rationales on similar issues because they wanted one outcome in one situation, and the opposite outcome in another situation.

Nov 08, 2018 03:31 PM #204

@justanotherfan Good observation. If you see decisions that seem conflictory please call them out. I remain interested, regardless of Senator Turtlehead's proclamation that "these things always blow over".

Nov 08, 2018 03:43 PM #205

approxinfinity said:

@justanotherfan Good observation. If you see decisions that seem conflictory please call them out. I remain interested, regardless of Senator Turtlehead's proclamation that "these things always blow over".

It will probably take a little bit of time because Kavanaugh might not write more than a couple of opinions in this first session.

The most recent example from the SCOTUS was their rulings in Masterpiece Cake and the "Muslim Ban", which came only weeks apart.

In Masterpiece Cake, SCOTUS ruled that the comments that one of the reviewers in Colorado made during the hearing showed animus that caused the decision to be clouded even though those statements were not contained within the order.

However, when considering the "Muslim Ban", the court determined that statements by the President and his administration should not be considered because they were not part of the actual language in the executive order.

That's a results based approach, where in one case statements made outside the language of the determination were considered, while in another case they were not.

As a result, you have case law now where statements by government officials may be considered, or they may not be. Those are bad rulings because people have no way of knowing how the court will rule when statements outside the order are made because the SCOTUS has made two completely opposite decisions, using those outside statements to strike down one ruling, while ignoring the statements to uphold the other.

This inconsistency is bad for the legal environment. I would rather they either upheld both (or struck down both) because it gives us a clear rule - statements that take a negative view of a particular religion will (or will not) be considered when looking at the order in question. Right now, we don't know because we have rulings in conflict.

Nov 08, 2018 08:07 PM #206

@justanotherfan I understand where you are coming rrom, but I have to disagree about the two examples you cited. In the cake case, the comments were made by someone acting in a quasi-judicial capacity in a particular case involving weighing the rights of two parties in conflict. Animus against one side is highly relevant. The holding was limited to deciding that the party facing an apparent bias was entitled to an unbiased decision-maker.

In the second (third?) ban, the Court did not need to look at underlying motives because as an Executive Order, the ban could be examined purely on its face. Issued under the Presidential authority to restrict admission of aliens, it is more akin to a policy decision than a judicial decision. It would be an unimaginable nightmare if Executive Orders were subject to challenges solely because of a politician's extraneous comments that are not reflected in the mandate issued. Result oriented, I think, only in the sense of applying a heavy presumption of lawfulness of Executive action, just as courts are supposed to do whenever governmental action is challenged.

I do think in the bakery case that the Court should have reached the underlying issues, but in the ban, it was a foregone conclusion that eventually restrictions would be upheld.

Nov 08, 2018 10:34 PM #207

justanotherfan said:

@bskeet

I fear that Kavanaugh is a result based judge. He decides the outcome he wants, then looks for a legal rationale to support it. We will know soon enough, as those types of judges typically have conflicting rationales on similar issues because they wanted one outcome in one situation, and the opposite outcome in another situation.

His tenure on the DC Circuit suggests otherwise.

Nov 09, 2018 03:14 PM #208

@FarmerJayhawk

Some of his dissents make me question that.

Apr 23, 2021 12:36 AM #209

?s=21

This seems bad. Someone explain to me why the Supreme Court (conservative or progressive) would want more kids in jail for life? From everything I’m reading this is going against precedent even. Sotomayor seems not pleased with the decision.

Apr 23, 2021 12:49 AM #210

@benshawks08 Well this is why it was so terrible that the Republicans were able to load up the supreme court with conservatives. I would blame Trump but it didn't matter who the president was, any Republican would have done it.

Keeps their prison labor system well stocked I'm sure.

Apr 23, 2021 01:42 AM #211

He's lucky he's not "that" kid.

Apr 23, 2021 01:43 AM #212

@benshawks08 said in Kavanaugh:

?s=21

This seems bad. Someone explain to me why the Supreme Court (conservative or progressive) would want more kids in jail for life? From everything I’m reading this is going against precedent even. Sotomayor seems not pleased with the decision.

The constitutionality of life without parole for minors wasn’t before the Court. Only whether it was mandatory to make a separate judgment on sentencing. Legislatures really need to take this up. This and death penalty litigation are absolute trash fires