🏀 KuBuckets Archive

In pregame, Coach Self said he's starting Charlie Moore and Marcus Garrett at the guard spots. He said he planned to do that even before the Emporia State Game.

Five days until Mich St. What does everyone want to see happen during this exhibition game? I hope Coach Ballard has the Icabods double team the bigs again. I'm sure that was a focus of practice this week. I want to see Dok, Mitch and even Dedric swing the ball back to the perimeter for open 3s.

Starters tonight: Charlie Moore, Marcus Garrett, Lagerald Vick, Dedric Lawson and Udoka Azubuike

Hmm that sounds like the Self we know.

Happy Game Day Fellas!

approxinfinity said:

Hmm that sounds like the Self we know.

Self did qualify it with "we are wanting to see different line-ups". I would bet it was always the plan to swap Dotson/Grimes with Garrett/Moore for the exhibitions.

Nick Schwerdt thinks KU needs to beat Washburn by 60 to actually be the #1 team in the country. :rolling_eyes:

Go time!

Poopy Piper is back.

Who else is here?

Marcus Garrett officially at PG, Moore at the 2. :eyes:

Need Vick to see a couple go through the net

Woodrow said:

Need Vick to see a couple go through the net

He's definitely been cold so far from three.

Woof

Camera work is making me seasick. Hands off the zoom, please.

now we're behind...

Izzo's boys will MURDER this team.

Pretty sure this is Charlie's last start for the year

DanR said:

Pretty sure this is Charlie's last start for the year

SLOPPY turnovers

@BShark welp.

Charlie Moore ain't it, like I've been saying.

I like that the Ichabods are making it tough for Dok. Dok needs to start playing like he's a junior and the biggest dude on the court.

@BShark he's not a point guard. he's got alot of tyshawn in him.

I have no prob with Garrett at point. Kid must have enormous hands the way he dribbles and handles the ball.

Dedric can dunk!

DOTTTTTSON

Come on KJ

Turnovers are still a huge issue.

I'm in love with Dotson's speed

McCormick has it dialed down to about 12 out of 10 so far. Better than last week!

@DanR lol

What if this team is actually bad?

@BShark which one? Both?

Man we have no identity yet.

approxinfinity said:

@BShark which one? Both?

KU. Washburn will be okay at their level. This is an embarrassing start.

Simple. Bill will shorten the rotation until they're not bad. Too much talent to not have 5 guys at least that can play together

I’m foreseeing an Oubre siting for grimes at some point. The athletic freaks that come here get broken down by self early then usually come around. Grimes better respond!

We're on pace to score about 55 points. I think we'll be OK.

Moore gets obliterated on D but bailed out by the post, then hits a three. LOL

Not seeing the high low yet and perhaps Self is holding it for Tuesday. I really think self will run a bunch of it with Lawson/doke

I wish Doke grew up playing volleyball.

Doke had Vick WIDE open on the wing. Jeeeez

Yep he should have blocked that one

Hope we see Lawson at 5 at some point.

And we got it

Hmm doke fts look not awful

This will be a year self has to coach his ass off just to meet normal expectations(big 12 title and 30ish wins) yet the nation has the ultimate expectations(#1 rank).

BigBad said:

This will be a year self has to coach his ass off just to meet normal expectations(big 12 title and 30ish wins) yet the nation has the ultimate expectations(#1 rank).

Agree. He might get good rotations figured out or he might just keep throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks. There is some talent here so hopefully things start to become cohesive but this team is absolutely going to take some lumps early on, starting on Tuesday.

No COY expectations

If I didn't call out that Mitch rolled on floor with ball would that make me as bad as a Duke fan?

@approxinfinity he did not trip anyone, so you're good

@DanR sound logic!

When Self coached team USA didn’t Grimes shoot the ball really well?

Lord this is ugly

Hope Self has fun with this game tape

Woodrow said:

When Self coached team USA didn’t Grimes shoot the ball really well?

Half the games he was good, the other half were really bad.

Charlie is going to start for a bit. Dotson is not ready for the speed of the game.

approxinfinity said:

Lord this is ugly

Truly awful!

I recall the two exhibition games when Wiggins and Selden were freshmen, we looked really horrid, then played Duke in the champions classic and it was like an entirely different team.

Guys leaving early sucks. Grimes/Dotson could develop into rush/charmers but won’t get chance. Remember how bad Mario struggled early his freshman year?

honestly if a couple more threes had dropped, we don't look quite as bad

This Washburn team really has my son worried

@DanR I'm more concerned with the D and lack of confidence in taking shots. Add in just simply not being ready to shoot. Guys making the easy pass to the wide open guy and they pass up a shot because they weren't ready to catch and shoot.

That is why Senior Vick matters

@Kcmatt7 1/3 of the last wide open threes. They were ready to shoot

KJ is kind of butt

10 turnovers.... yuk

I’d love to know if the week before the last exhibition game is a REALLY REALLY tough practice week for the guys. I’d bet Self kills them and sees who responds but it leads to dead legs for this game. Then he lets up for the big game next week and concentrates more on mental stuff.

@BigBad good point. They do all look pretty dead

@Kcmatt7 yeah... Sample size grows KJ remains butt....

Vick loves kicks!

Kcmatt7 said:

KJ is kind of butt

He has not done anything for me yet.

BigBad said:

Guys leaving early sucks. Grimes/Dotson could develop into rush/charmers but won’t get chance. Remember how bad Mario struggled early his freshman year?

Dotson should be around for awhile.

approxinfinity said:

This Washburn team really has my son worried

How old is your kiddo?

Self is disappointed

Kcmatt7 said:

@DanR I'm more concerned with the D and lack of confidence in taking shots. Add in just simply not being ready to shoot. Guys making the easy pass to the wide open guy and they pass up a shot because they weren't ready to catch and shoot.

Well said. I noticed that a lot as well. Need more confidence!

We look like crap so far.

I know it’s only a game and a half of exhibitions but I don’t see a lottery pick in Grimes right now.

Woodrow said:

Kcmatt7 said:

KJ is kind of butt

He has not done anything for me yet.

More than anything, he looks either lost or not giving 100%. Neither is a good thing.

Kcmatt7 said:

KJ is kind of butt

My eyes told me this when watching him at Memphis, but then we heard so many good things from around the program. Hopefully he gets it going.

Woodrow said:

I know it’s only a game and a half of exhibitions but I don’t see a lottery pick in Grimes right now.

Last game I definitely saw a lot that looked like an NBA PG. He has the size and the vision.

I don't know that they'll be looking at much else honestly.

DanR said:

10 turnovers.... yuk

Going to be a problem all year I think.

Kcmatt7 said:

Woodrow said:

I know it’s only a game and a half of exhibitions but I don’t see a lottery pick in Grimes right now.

Last game I definitely saw a lot that looked like an NBA PG. He has the size and the vision.

I don't know that they'll be looking at much else honestly.

Sad but true.

I think Self may have used the Lawson's to get to Dedric. I am starting to suspect he cuts ties with them this offseason depending on how recruiting all shakes out...

Kcmatt7 said:

I think Self may have used the Lawson's to get to Dedric. I am starting to suspect he cuts ties with them this offseason depending on how recruiting all shakes out...

Someone on the phog called him CJ Henry 2.0. I don't think we are there yet...

Not winning Tuesday with this effort. Very concerned

BeddieKU23 said:

Not winning Tuesday with this effort. Very concerned

Not winning Tuesday period. Michigan State is a cohesive team with 3 excellent college players and some role players. MSU by 15+ imo.

Perimeter scoring is going to be a major issue all yr if Grimes plays like that. Good thing theres lots of games for him to get it together

Has anyone found any video of the Mich St exhibitions? I'd love to watch a little tape on them.

We have so many bigs, but the best line-ups are small ball...

BShark said:

We have so many bigs, but the best line-ups are small ball...

Tough transition from small to traditional

@BShark He won't be mistaken for Dedric. This team is going to take time. We could have as many losses this year as we had last year. We have alot of guys not sure what to do next. There's going to be some learning curves, I'm afraid.

Well guys I mean I know - - I know it's just two exhibition games. I think however and feel we just might struggle a little bit until we really find ourselves this Season.

The game just might be a little interesting Tuesday night with Michigan State could be pretty close , again just like we are struggling now - -we have got to quirt making -unforce turnovers. - Sure a lot different from last year in our 3 pt shooting - -but we all knew we weren't going to be as good in that dept.

Grimes has had a slow beginning in exhibition play , but not really concerned - -just got to get that playing time- -it will come , as far as tonight goes - - Vick looking a little better -- HEY Udoka -- the 2 free throws he has shot looked really fluid very nice just got to keep after it..

The biggest take I have seen we need to work on though is --Ball security , KJ has struggled. -- I like the garbage boy the one giving 100% - in little things -- Mitch just brings his lunchbox. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Have we ever had a player that compares to Dedric? I think he's going to be a scoring machine, but he has to be the most un-athletic big man in KU history.

KUSTEVE said:

@BShark He won't be mistaken for Dedric. This team is going to take time. We could have as many losses this year as we had last year. We have alot of guys not sure what to do next. There's going to be some learning curves, I'm afraid.

Agree. This team COULD be very good but it's going to take time and some lumps before they potentially get there.

@DanR he was rated the least athletic at the combine 2 years ago.

DanR said:

Have we ever had a player that compares to Dedric? I think he's going to be a scoring machine, but he has to be the most un-athletic big man in KU history.

Hmm, Moody wasn't very athletic. Not a similar player to Dedric at all though. I think Georges Niang is a good comp.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Not winning Tuesday with this effort. Very concerned

Not winning Tuesday period. Michigan State is a cohesive team with 3 excellent college players and some role players. MSU by 15+ imo.

I agree going to be interesting for awhile BUT come on Man don't start that crap already - -Michigan St by 15 plus? -- come on , that's just a little extreme Mr Sunshine lmao. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@DanR Old man ball. His game is a testament to those of us that watched the NBA in the 80s and 90s.

@jayballer73 I think we'll show better against Sparty. So far, this looks more like 2013 than 2017.

The one thing I worry about with this team is the best defensive team might be the worst offensive one. Self may have to just deal with some bad defense to stay in games with a hot opponent. This will really test the “Self has embraced modern ball” theorists.

I dont think Agbaji is redshirting.

I was ABOUT to say good d by moore.

@approxinfinity I still don't think he sees minutes.

Where is our frigging touch on the passes. I can pass better than this any day.

The D is roughhhh

Doke has regressed. Missed a wide open Dedric on one end then zero D

that was better--attack the basket!

The one thing that I expected was a high pressure D from us. The intensity is just not there.

High top shoes don't really prevent ankle sprains, Armstrong.

And I will say that I am pleasantly surprised by Moore and will probably be eating crow this season.

Vick knocking down some shots tonight. Good stuff.

I'm feeling Moore and Vick right now.

@DanR only Garret and Vick has experience understanding defense at this level and what self expects

Also , everyone should keep in mind that Self isnt running any plays.

Brett Ballard, you tear em a new one bud :)

Woodrow said:

Vick knocking down some shots tonight. Good stuff.

Still waiting for him to be able to attack the basket off of the dribble. If he could do that he would be 15 ppg easy I think.

I hope we play better than this against Michigan St.

@Kcmatt7 decent point guards always look better surrounded by talent

Izzo won't know what to do against this weave

THERE is is Udoka, dribble with authority out of the double team, find the open man. That calm your nerves a bit about regression?

I'd turn on the UCF game after this if I were you guys. In a dog fight at home against Temple

approxinfinity said:

THERE is is Udoka, dribble with authority out of the double team, find the open man. That calm your nerves a bit about regression?

No. Vick was wide-open before he put the ball on the floor. He should have just passed it without dribbling. He needs to stop dribbling.

@approxinfinity Yep, except for the dribbling part!

@BShark you guys are kidding, right?!? Remember 2013 when we didnt kill Fort Hayes St and Louisiana Monroe in the preseason? No one could handle that we looked mediocre while Duke murdered teams. Then we beat Duke in Chicago in the same game we have this year with MSU. Lots of plays simply not being run. Have we literally run any real plays yet? I think we thump MSU.

RCJH

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

approxinfinity said:

THERE is is Udoka, dribble with authority out of the double team, find the open man. That calm your nerves a bit about regression?

No. Vick was wide-open before he put the ball on the floor. He should have just passed it without dribbling. He needs to stop dribbling.

Doke has a lot to work on. He greatly benefited from being the only big out there last year.

@joeloveshawks I brought that up earlier. :thumbsup_tone1:

joeloveshawks said:

@BShark you guys are kidding, right?!? Remember 2013 when we didnt kill Fort Hayes St and Louisiana Monroe in the preseason? No one could handle that we looked mediocre while Duke murdered teams. Then we beat Duke in Chicago in the same game we have this year with MSU. Lots of plays simply not being run. Have we literally run any real plays yet? I think we thump MSU.

RCJH

13 ended pretty badly though.

@joeloveshawks I agree. They will be fine Tuesday.

Dedric is so good.

Lawson’s game is absolutely effortless . So fun to watch.

There we go. Catch and look to score first and foremost. Be ready to let one fly boys!!

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

Lawson...smooooooth

Now we look better...

When is the last time KU has looked great in an exhibition game?

There's so many new faces this year and only the second time they've played against someone other than themselves. This happens everytime there's a lot of turnover on the roster.

There will also be times that KU looks bad early in the season because that's what Self teams do. This team was voted preseason #1 for a reason and they will look the part soon enough.

Mini-Dirk.

Some pro teams passed up on Dedric and could have had an 8 year veteran type player. Our gain!

Doke with the shooter's roll!

Doke FTs👍🏻

lol at Doke making the air-shooting motion where hes got his shooting hand completely sideways.

Dedric is a cheat-code.

Heartbeat of this game is now regular.

Lawson really does play like the old man at the Y who’s team never leaves the court.

It will be very damn interesting to see what Self does with Dedric this year.

@BigBad doesn’t talk smack. Just goes out and beats your ass every time!

Speaking of cheat codes, Joel Embiid has 36 and 12 with 1:00 minute left to play.

We will need Dotson in half court O come big 12 play

KJ is SLOOOOOW

Q has it all. Can dribble, finish at the Rim, Shoot the trey, pass the ball. Has the size and athleticism. Future NBA stud

KJ's hair do is throwing him off balance. That's too much hair to hold up...

Mitch looks better than KJ for sure

I can't even tell what spot KJ is playing

BigBad said:

Lawson really does play like the old man at the Y who’s team never leaves the court.

Lifetime hooper.

Big Dave might redshirt this year with Ochai.

KJ Henry, I mean CJ Lawson is a scrub.

Kcmatt7 said:

Q has it all. Can dribble, finish at the Rim, Shoot the trey, pass the ball. Has the size and athleticism. Future NBA stud

Agree. Hopefully he realizes some of his potential by March.

Not a polished team yet, but think about the best/most experienced five guys all on the court together.... hmmm, not bad.

Embiid with 41 and 13 and 4 blocks. He's okay.

If I am Self I am rolling with Moore, Dotson, Garrett, Vick, Mitch, Dedric and Doke in big games.

Too bad Philly drafted Fultz instead of Tatum

Kcmatt7 said:

Too bad Philly drafted Fultz instead of Tatum

ALL TIME DRAFT FUCK UP

My wife (KU prof) observed McCormick's intro to poetry class this week and said he seems like a great student.

DanR said:

My wife (KU prof) observed McCormick's intro to poetry class this week and said he seems like a great student.

He will be. He was talking about 4 years and the degree he wanted after he committed.

Lonzo and Fox would have been better too, if they wanted a PG

BShark said:

If I am Self I am rolling with Moore, Dotson, Garrett, Vick, Mitch, Dedric and Doke in big games.

No Grimes?

Texas Hawk 10 said:

BShark said:

If I am Self I am rolling with Moore, Dotson, Garrett, Vick, Mitch, Dedric and Doke in big games.

No Grimes?

Forgot Grimes. That was supposed to be my 8-man rotation.

approxinfinity said:

Lonzo and Fox would have been better too, if they wanted a PG

Problem is they didn't need one. Especially not one who struggles to shoot. They needed a 3 and D wing. Simmons is a 6'10 PG, not a point forward.

approxinfinity said:

Lonzo and Fox would have been better too, if they wanted a PG

Dennis Smith Jr. or Donovan Mitchell

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

Too bad Philly drafted Fultz instead of Tatum

ALL TIME DRAFT FUCK UP

Well, forgetting how to shoot your shot is really weird. Who does that? Drafting Anthony Bennett over Oladipo is imho the worst in recent memory.

I'm liking DMac

@DanR He's got a bit of nasty in him that needs to be unleashed.

Grimes may be a 2 year player. I don’t see enough speed and lift for him to play NBA ball. May need to lose some weight

I like Agbaji.

Agbaji will be a great college player

Ochai is better than KJ right now. There I said it...

BigBad said:

Grimes may be a 2 year player. I don’t see enough speed and lift for him to play NBA ball. May need to lose some weight

Ideally yes, but he thinks he is OAD.

@BShark fastest five likes in history

approxinfinity said:

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

Too bad Philly drafted Fultz instead of Tatum

ALL TIME DRAFT FUCK UP

Well, forgetting how to shoot your shot is really weird. Who does that? Drafting Anthony Bennett over Oladipo is imho the worst in recent memory.

Oladipo turned into a dude though.

@BShark agree but I’d bet his combine measurements will be bad for his position.

Give Grimes until the end of the season. He gone. He'll go for 30 and save us at one point this season.

We need to instill an original rules of basketball policy for our big men during practices... as in no dribbling.

Not saying he won’t be good for us. I’m just thinking his NBA ability. I’d have rather had Romeo Langford.

@Kcmatt7 He did get jerked around a bit in the league despite being very talented. I didn't really get that why teams moved him. Rather have him than Ibaka. Rather have him than PG13.

@KirkIsMyHinrich Joel's swimsuit model girlfriend must have been courtside

What was promised to KJ, and what was told to Agbaji...

BigBad said:

Not saying he won’t be good for us. I’m just thinking his NBA ability. I’d have rather had Romeo Langford.

I think you'll come around on him by January. I think Grimes ends up the better all around player

Do you guys think this team will have bad chemistry? Will KJ lose his minutes and be disgruntled? Or will he play undeservedly and piss others off? Will Self have a players meeting to discuss who should be playing?

Ochia in 2 years under Hudy will be a beast. He has that type of build that will fill out easily.

I think we'll play a whole bunch of experience against Sparty.

stoptheflop said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich Joel's swimsuit model girlfriend must have been courtside

He drank a cup of Master Kong Tea before the game.

@approxinfinity KJ has no minutes to lose

So who starts Tuesday?

Rock chalk! I see potential. Could be a number one team at some point.

I'd go Dotson, Grimes, Vick, Dedric, Doke

@DanR you think he's not gonna see the floor against Sparty?

@approxinfinity hell no.

@DanR ok! we'll see, I think he gets obligatory minutes, even if its like 2 minutes. I hope you're right.

Langford was 4/12 field goals in 31 minutes during an exhibition victory over a Southern Indiana. 4 rebounds and 1 assist. 5 turnovers. This Buckets group would have crucified him.... 🤣🤣🤣

@KirkIsMyHinrich Agreed. I could see Moore getting it over Dotson though.

I’d like to see the 5 of Moore, Dotson, Grimes, Garrett, Dedric play some.

Dedric, Doke, Vick, Garrett/Grimes, Dotson. Subs Charlie and Lightfoot. MAYBE a couple hustle minutes for KJ. McCormick if we run into foul trouble.

BigBad said:

Ochia in 2 years under Hudy will be a beast. He has that type of build that will fill out easily.

He's already a freak athletically too. I can see why Self has been gushing over him.

@BShark yep! That block was nice😛

@Gorilla72 I don't think we're too hard on them. We were hard on KJ, but he sucked. Just want to see some growth.

I heard a big part of not getting Sam Williamson is that the staff thinks Agbaji will be a factor next year, maybe start. I think we are far enough removed from his commitment now that it won't read like sour grapes.

YOU GUYS DOKE WAS 5/6 FROM THE LINE.

Look at all these weird fans behind the announcers.

BShark said:

YOU GUYS DOKE WAS 5/6 FROM THE LINE.

and 6/6 frm the field!

approxinfinity said:

Where is our frigging touch on the passes. I can pass better than this any day.

ya, some of these asses was just horrible telegraphed pass-- - announcers say way to soft passes

KUSTEVE said:

Look at all these weird fans behind the announcers.

thats not a TV thats a mirror!

I too am very intrigued with how Self handles KJ. We already know his dad is kind of a loud mouth and there are the two younger brothers. Will be very interesting.

@jayballer73 Yeah the passing game was just awful for about 2/3 of the game.

Question of the night...how did Washburn get Steve Nash to coach the team? :smile:

...yes, I know it’s Brett Ballard but he is a dead ringer for Steve Nash.

@KUSTEVE KJ will be better , he is just struggling right now- - he will get better - -looks like he is just pressing/forcing right now - -But not real worried right now. - Not sure just how many minutes he getes but think he will be fine. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

BigBad said:

So who starts Tuesday?

I think we goona see D Lawson -- - Udoka - - - Vick - - Grimes -- & Devon to start

DMac with 7 rebs eh.

Does anyone have a KenPom subscription? Interested as to what he predicts for the score on Tuesday.

Pretty poor first half and much better second half. Dedrick and Vick great from 3, Dedrick 4-4 and Vick 4-7. Lots of options and looked like Coach Self was testing all kinds of combinations and once the rotation is settled the team will be much better.

Biggest story of the night...after missing the first FT Doke makes the next 5 to finish 5-6 from the line...hopefully it is a trend and the “poke-a-Doke” is history.

There was definitely more energy and more focus the second half. Much more concerted effort to set Dok up in the post and it showed. Grimes and Dotson are going to be fantastic - again, they just need time to adjust and learn. Plus, as Ballard said in his post-game interview, Self did not run much of anything, "vanilla", IIRC. Hoping for a win Tuesday but not expecting it due to so many new pieces.

Been out tonight. How’d we do?

@wissox First 25 minutes were total garbage. Then we snapped out of it.

@approxinfinity I had just seen the total garbage part of the thread above. Thought I had accidentally gotten on a Missouri thread.

@wissox Yeah Lagerald settled us down, was it 5 threes?, and Moore was on the floor when we settled down as well. Also, Doke 5/6 from foul line.

This is the first I've seen Mccormack interviewed. Seems like a good kid.

We watched the same 5 commercials about 30 times.

Aren’t we glad Vick decided to come back?

Our guard play is still sloppy as can be. MSU will be tough because they have experienced guards and that could be what beats us at this point in the season.

approxinfinity said:

This is the first I've seen Mccormack interviewed. Seems like a good kid.

Dave and Ochai will be fan favorites before it's all said and done.

Box score: https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/news/documents/2018/11/01/11_1_kubball_Wash_EXH2_Final_Book.pdf ↗

Ballard actually said in post game that the refs let them just mug KU's bigs. :joy:

Keegan's last article?

Self SMACKS Keegan...LMAO...

Hmm they just showed a clip of KJ talking to Self on the sideline. KJ was very attentive, engaged and animated communicating with Self. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it's mostly nerves.

Elijah Elliott is going to RS. 5 year walk-on hyyype.

BShark said:

Elijah Elliott is going to RS. 5 year walk-on hyyype.

"Walk-on"

approxinfinity said:

Keegan's last article?

Keegan is going to the Boston Herald.

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

Elijah Elliott is going to RS. 5 year walk-on hyyype.

"Walk-on"

Should I have said bag man?

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

Elijah Elliott is going to RS. 5 year walk-on hyyype.

"Walk-on"

Should I have said bag man?

Odds he gets real minutes at some point?

Two major things from the exhibition games I think and am sure most will agree is - - -the main thing - -we just HAVE to get control of is the turnovers- - -42 turnover's equals 21 per - -that is not going to get it, just got to get that in check. - -The other observation/ take is - -- MAN Udoka looks so much better shooting in his touch shooting free throws.

What I think about the possibility of Redshirts is -- our boy from KC can't spell his name and he will be nice - -but I think the possibility of him then Redshirting is very possible - - THEN , maybe -- maybe Lightfoot is the other possibility. -- I mean actually if would benefit Mitch to and could be in the end run- -I think the way our recruiting Is going for us - -he could help us more next year then this year. - -Especially if we end up missing on Hurt too then He would for sure help is more next yr we shall see - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 Yeah the turnovers are bad. So many were just sloppy play or not having much experience playing with who you are playing with. One stood out to me where Grimes made an anticipation pass to Dotson but Dotson went the opposite way.

Well, a very different start to the season than in recent years. Basically a new team. Zero chemistry so far. Seems like that will take some time. Hopefully less than five days! Or, as Self suggests, is it just awkward looking because they have not run a single play yet? My very early player impressions thru two:

Overall as a team: seems a bit unathletic and clunky?
Dedric: old school. Will he actually dunk this year? Like his game.
KJ: SLOW as dirt. Zero chance of covering a small. Hmmm.
Dok: seems like he’s regressed a bit. Certainly not improved..
Vick: no change (I was hoping he’d be dribble-driving)
Dotson: I love this kid. He may be one of our few take it to the hole guys. The rest will come along.
Charlie: we will need his shooting. The rest? Meh. Attitude?
Grimes: mostly invisible til late in the 2nd half. Maybe he found his aggression!
Agbaji: you see him going after every ball? Red shirt my ass! He should be in MMA. My fav.
Big Dave: this will take time. No expectations this year. Any contribution a positive.
Mitch: bigger. Stronger. Still slow footed. Back up
Garrett: mr glue. Love his game. Oddly invisible tonight though. Scared shitless to shoot though. Drive it, man!

@jayhawkcsg -Think there is a very good chance for him as a redshirt , It's all about numbers - Good player , Gonna be a very good player , BUT even in these exhibitions we have seen how his minutes was played in both games. He doesn't redshirt this year -- -it's a wasted year for him. - Why not redshirt when if you don't your buried in the rotation/ - - be the 8th-9th man in the rotation , again his minutes even in these exhibition you saw when he was coming on the floor and the amount of minutes he was playing, he redshirts this year - -a lot more next year, ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayhawkcsg Some thoughts on your thoughts.

KJ is a 4, I would bet Self knows this, but KJ has a lot of pride and thinks he is a guard. Could this cause tension all year? I hope not. He's a good enough option at the 4 if he's willing to bang. He could serve as a back-up to his brother as well as play with him (as the two bigs).

I think a lot of it with Doke is adjusting to the two big system. He looked a fair bit better against Washburn. He got the crap hacked out of him both games. With an honest whistle, he's probably shooting 18+ ft both games. But I get letting things go a bit in these exhibitions. A huge key for Doke will be passing it back out of the post. He was a little better last night, but still a few times went up with the ball instead of finding a wide open shooter on the wing or in the corner.

As for Vick, I'm not really surprised. Driving the ball just isn't in his DNA.

I love what I see from Dotson as well. He could be a HUGE problem by his JR year. This year he just needs to contribute well enough, move the ball along, drive when he can.

I've been talking about how Grimes has that Selden drift to him. I'm thinking it will be like that all year. When the chips are down though, when it's a big game and the team needs him? Self will push him then, and get the best out of him. He can absolutely be a special player. A shame he is so set on being OAD, I think he'd really benefit from more time under Self.

I would be stunned if Agbaji doesn't RS. He seems to be willing and in for the long haul which is good. He will be a factor as early as next year and like Bill said, he's gonna rack up a lot of stats before he is done at KU.

Big Dave should be a testament to how bad the 2018 class was. No offense to Dave, who is a great kid. But McDAA and top 30? He will be good in time but his ranking has put unrealistic expectations on him from portions of the fan base (not you, of course).

Mitch shouldn't be near the court with this roster, but if KJ isn't going to hustle, then Mitch should get more minutes.

I've been high on Garrett and his overall game. He was okay last night but if he is a non-factor on offense and playing 25 minutes a night, that's going to be an issue. Hopefully he gets it together on that end, I'd like to see him drive more.

KU looked awful overall last night. I'll take it with a grain of salt but I was not expecting that effort in the first half. I knew this would be a work in progress so I'm not even sure what I'm upset about.

We better hope Dedric can get 25 against Sparty and carry this team early. Will be interesting to see how these guys respond on the big stage.

@BShark Amen, brother. i think we'll see a much better effort from KJ the next time out...if he gets minutes. He's a 4 hiding out on the 3 line. As for Marcus, i think he'll end up doing the Dotson, and making his noise on drives to the basket. The biggest event last night was watching Dedric completely take over the game, and impose his will on them. The dude is a closer. I thought Charlie looked pretty good - with Vick, Charlie, and Dedric, we have a pretty formidable perimeter attack from 3. Of course, as Grimes gets his sea legs, he will be a force from 3 at some point in the season. My takeaway....the 4 out is not dead, and will be a mainstay in our attack. The feeds to Doke serve to give us easy baskets down low, and spreads out our shooters for 3 pointers. If we can get Doke to learn how to pass out of double teams better, we're going to be very hard to guard.

Some signs of encouragement with Doke last night, 3 assists and 2 turnovers. Hopefully in real games, teams can't get away with hacking him as much.

For those of you who are worried, here are Coach Self’s comments ↗ after the game...

HEAD COACH BILL SELF

Opening statement:

"I thought we were bad in the first half. I thought our starters played well and when we subbed, it was about even. I think the second half, gosh dang, our starters had the best ten minutes they've had all year. The 22-0 run, that was good. There were good things that happened, obviously. Quentin and Devon weren't getting shots in the first half but they were obviously better in the second half. But I thought Lagerald, Dedric, Doke and Charlie all had pretty solid games."

Again remember tha KU went on a 22-0 run that extended to a 33-5 run. This team can play once it gets it rhythm together.

@BShark yea, in complete agreement that KJ is a four, or at least he’s not a two. There was a bunch of offseason speculation that he would be in the small rotation. I can’t say I have a good feel for his skill set just yet. Hopefully he shows us a lot more than he has already. Gotta have some talent to average 12 and 8, right?

As per Vick...man, to have that athletic body and ability and not put it to good use...

The worry about KJ is that he was really inefficient at Memphis, he just played a lot.

@jayballer73

I know Jayballer, he should redshirt. but Agbaji is my new favorite Jayhawk. Stud. Play him at the four over KJ!

BShark said:

The worry about KJ is that he was really inefficient at Memphis, he just played a lot.

That was in full effect last night! But, don’t want to so down on the kid so early on. I’m sure he’ll help us win some games. Self, hopefully, will convince him to fit into the system, contribute with the skills that best fit the team.

@jayhawkcsg I'm kind of glad KJ isn't hitting on all cylinders. I want Vick to be entrenched at the 3. We'll need KJ next year- this year he can get acclimated.

@KUSTEVE Speaking of Vick...

🐦 View Tweet

@BShark nice gif. Learn so much from body language.

@BShark

Vick has been a very pleasant surprise, he has lead, been vocal and playing hard and effectively. I guess his fling with the real world made him realize he has work do do and he is trying very hard to prepare himself for the next step.

@BShark it’d be nice to be able to throw Silvio into that mix. Doesn’t look likely at this point though.

Big Dave and Ochai are going to be nice down the road. As Jrs this class should be tearing it up. (Ochai, McCormack, Dotson🤞)

dylans said:

@BShark it’d be nice to be able to throw Silvio into that mix. Doesn’t look likely at this point though.

Big Dave and Ochai are going to be nice down the road. As Jrs this class should be tearing it up. (Ochai, McCormack, Dotson🤞)

I was actually just thinking year 3 Dotson/Ochai/Dave is a very nice core if we get to see it. Dotson is probably the only risk to blow up and leave early. McBride in year 2 will be interesting as well. You'd have a :cloud_lightning: PG with an excellent shooting CG, solid shooter at the wing and a behemoth down low.