🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Dotson or RJ, who do you prefer?

Also, would Jalen coming in with RJ but not w/o change your decision?

@BShark

Don't do this to me.

A 2 for 1 deal sounds awfully good. New toys, we don't know their weaknesses yet.

And yet I'd still take Dotson back over them. Having a PG with experience is just so vital to success. Dotson truly did a phenomenal job as a freshman. I want to see how he follows it up.

So as painful as it is I choose Dot

If you give me the choice between Dotson and RJ + Jalen I'd take the latter. RJ is really, really good, and Jalen is a multiyear guy with a skillset we really need. I love Dotson and think he can be a first rounder in a year, but we really need bodies at this point.

Zion is withdrawing from the draft and transferring to Kansas.

wissox said:

Zion is withdrawing from the draft and transferring to Kansas.

I heard his Step-Dad say China was an option

wissox said:

Zion is withdrawing from the draft and transferring to Kansas.

Got me laughing on that one ...

No matter what the answer is, I sure am glad that we are looking better than we all thought we would last month. There is still holes to fill but at least they're not craters.

Sorry @BShark to hijack your thread temporarily. I always prefer the known quantity especially if he's as good as Dotson.

@HighEliteMajor can't get a PHOF on that one?

wissox said:

Zion is withdrawing from the draft and transferring to Kansas.

Is he a grad transfer?

dylans said:

wissox said:

Zion is withdrawing from the draft and transferring to Kansas.

Is he a grad transfer?

Now that would be a game changer! He took like 70 credits per semester I think, so yes he's a grad transfer.

@wissox There was talk of him staying at Dook. I heard Dook doesn't pay quite as much, but they offer better benefits to his mother, so it was a hard decision.

@wissox Well, I do think that deserved it. Best one in a while.

The Zion thing made me think of how much these guys are actually in school. You know, how Vick is working hard from Memphis, tending to important personal business.

Read this article .. Dedric isn't in class. http://www2.kusports.com/news/2019/may/13/3-point-shot-has-been-emphasis-dedric-lawson-ahead/ ↗
How could he return, or someone similarly situated?

By the way, I vote Dotson. Jalen coming too might sway me. Pondering ...

Vick is graduating

So he never set foot on KU's campus after leaving, didn't attend class, and he's graduating? I'm sure that would work for our kids.

wissox said:

Sorry @BShark to hijack your thread temporarily. I always prefer the known quantity especially if he's as good as Dotson.

@HighEliteMajor can't get a PHOF on that one?

It was funny, no worries.

HighEliteMajor said:

So he never set foot on KU's campus after leaving, didn't attend class, and he's graduating? I'm sure that would work for our kids.

Because of travel, a lot of student-athletes take online classes in-season. In Dedric's case, he likely doesn't need to take a full courseload since players are in class all summer as well. Ditto Vick. He needed less than a full semester to graduate, so for all we know he met requirements in December and that was that.

One of my close friends does academics at a P5 athletic department, and it's pretty nifty how they make it work for all these kids. I know at KU some courses are frontloaded so they're done around spring break as well. I ended up with 2 BS's and a master's in 5 years by utilizing dual enrollment in high school, summer classes, and intersession classes at KU.

The negatives are that coaches will really, really pressure them to enter certain majors but not others just for scheduling. In some cases it's nearly impossible for them to major in a STEM field because of the time constraints.

@wissox this is why we thought doke was gone, straight from coaches lips,
Bill Self, in part, on how Udoka Azubuike will look next year when healthy: “I doubt we’re gonna get a chance to witness that.”

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@wissox this is why we thought doke was gone, straight from coaches lips,
Bill Self, in part, on how Udoka Azubuike will look next year when healthy: “I doubt we’re gonna get a chance to witness that.”

Maybe Self meant that Doke would be back but unhealthy. :)

@approxinfinity you are a dork!🥴

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@approxinfinity you are a dork!🥴

We are all dorks here.

I'm pretty cool.

@KirkIsMyHinrich me too! But everyone knows that!

@BShark speak for yourself!🤓

Normally I would take 2 guys over 1, but sophomore Dotson just sounds too good to me in this case. I think I'd go with Devon. And you never know with recruits. Hampton seems like a pretty sure thing in terms of being a good college basketball player, but I really thought that about Grimes last season too and here we are. So I'd go with the known commodity here.

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@approxinfinity you are a dork!🥴

We are all dorks here.

I’m nerdy af. Just own it.

@FarmerJayhawk so can you tell us where the farmer part came from? Verrrry interesting!

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@FarmerJayhawk so can you tell us where the farmer part came from? Verrrry interesting!

Sure! I grew up on a farm in north central Kansas. My great great great grandpa was a homesteader around what is now Lebanon, Kansas. My ancestors were in this novel: https://www.amazon.com/Flown-murders-September-County-Kansas/dp/B007FD76ZM ↗

From about age 4 I worked on the farm every summer. For whatever reason (I credit my mother reading to us a lot), I showed some academic talent so my mom and teachers suggested college. I’m less sure they had 11ish years of college in mind! I went to KU to avoid being written out of the family will. The KD in AFH game was the day of my grandpa’s funeral and I swear to this day his ghost brought us back to win! And then UNC for my PhD. My theory is I’m part of the Williams/Smith transfer program but I haven’t been able to confirm that. And the previous sentence is sarcasm 😂

@FarmerJayhawk good story, your parent still on the farm?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@FarmerJayhawk good story, your parent still on the farm?

Yep, parents and even grandparents still farm. I keep telling my grandparents (both are 80+) to retire but noooooo

@FarmerJayhawk my parents were both brought up on farms. We spent so much time w/both sets of
Gparents. Took our friends. Even after I married we fished every chance we got down there, my boys loved going too. Kids that don't experience that really miss out. Both places were sold.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@FarmerJayhawk my parents were both brought up on farms. We spent so much time w/both sets of
Gparents. Took our friends. Even after I married we fished every chance we got down there, my boys loved going too. Kids that don't experience that really miss out. Both places were sold.

Very cool! Oh for sure. Whenever I get to see my cousins back home (they didn’t grow up there) I’m more thankful I did grow up there. I almost never complain about work now because at least I have air conditioning!

wissox said:

Zion is withdrawing from the draft and transferring to Kansas.

Decided he didn't want to become the "Raging Cajun"

@BShark

Crimsonorblue22 said:

<a href="/user/approxinfinity" class="mention">@approxinfinity</a> you are a dork!🥴

We are all dorks here.

I'm too sublime to be a dork. I'm a dingleberry!

Sounds like our only hope of getting DD back is he is O'fer from 3 at the combine. But he is impressing on all other levels. So I will take the other 2 guys cuz DD may be a goner.

Grimes is struggling....what a shocker!!

FarmerJayhawk said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@FarmerJayhawk so can you tell us where the farmer part came from? Verrrry interesting!

Sure! I grew up on a farm in north central Kansas. My great great great grandpa was a homesteader around what is now Lebanon, Kansas. My ancestors were in this novel: https://www.amazon.com/Flown-murders-September-County-Kansas/dp/B007FD76ZM ↗

From about age 4 I worked on the farm every summer. For whatever reason (I credit my mother reading to us a lot), I showed some academic talent so my mom and teachers suggested college. I’m less sure they had 11ish years of college in mind! I went to KU to avoid being written out of the family will. The KD in AFH game was the day of my grandpa’s funeral and I swear to this day his ghost brought us back to win! And then UNC for my PhD. My theory is I’m part of the Williams/Smith transfer program but I haven’t been able to confirm that. And the previous sentence is sarcasm 😂

Thanks for sharing that.

Yeah, I don't think Dotson is coming back. He's all but guaranteed to be a first rounder. It now, though, looks like Grimes might be coming back. What do you all think about him potentially coming back to play for us next season?

@Marco not thrilled. Recently, with 1.5 feet out the door, Vick returning may have salted the earth on that experience. If (I truly mean "if" as I'm not sure, just have suspicions) he didn't want to be here for year one, I don't think he will want to be here for year two.

I don't want a redemption story. I want no drama and a focused, united team.

@Marco I would take Grimes coming back.

@Hawk8086 Yeah, by the time he’s a junior he should be half way decent.

I think Grimes is the next Selden.

@Marco Was looking forward to seeing Year Two Dotson big time and was happy Grimes was gone. He’d need to overhaul his approach to the game in a big way for me to enjoy watching him. Effort, D, rebounding, attitude...

@ajvan Effort. Attitude. Humility. Hard work. Maybe getting slapped in the head with reality will wake Q up to how much work he has to do to even possibly get to the NBA level. I just wonder how he could've imagined having the year he had that the NBA was in his immediate future. That's pretty detached from the real world.

@KUSTEVE I offered a similar thought on Mr. Vick when he was permitted to return. While Grimes does not appear to be a knucklehead in the Vick mold, I think I'd prefer not, as suggested above by @approxinfinity. I really thought Vick would seize the day. But knuckleheadedness is a hard condition to overcome. And with many folks, it's chronic and lasts 'till death (sometimes causing death).

@HighEliteMajor I can't, for the life of me, wrap my head around what made him think he could just waltz into the NBA. Yesterday he was 1 for 9, and made some really terrible decisions at the end of the game. Would he be the new Vick? Hopefully, if we do take Q back, the NBA debacle will so crush him that he turns over a new leaf, and decides to unpack the bags, pick up the lunch pail, and gets to work. Who knows...Selden was able to come back, and get much better. If he comes back, will he be Selden...or Vick?

@KUSTEVE I think the reason it could be similar is because it sounds as though Grimes falls into the drama queen/self centered category. I want to temper that, though, because things are just rumors. But then when you do appear to think that you can "waltz into the NBA", as you noted, it has the stench of entitlement. That's more what I fear. Not the kid that comes back humbled and focused, but the entitled kid that was done an injustice. That all said, I would welcome him back, as we all should, but with the ball in his court. We all know he needs KU to put him in the best position to be a pro. It is exactly what Selden did, and he made $1.4 million last season. I do wonder how much listening, learning, and absorbing was done this past season, and how much was "just get me through this year"? I don't know.

@KUSTEVE Maybe I’m wearing rose colored glasses, but I don’t remember Selden being so lackadaisical with D and rebounding or so detached from reality with regard to his own abilities. Was he a guy who struggled with effort and expected to coast through when he arrived?

Stuff like this makes me wince. From the KC Star:

Grimes hasn’t ruled out a return to Kansas and hasn’t specified what it would take for him to keep his name in the draft.

Should he return to Kansas, Grimes thinks he’ll be used differently as a player after proving over the course of the combine what a team’s offense looks like with him as the primary ball-handler.

“I think I’d have the ball in my hands more,” Grimes said of a return to KU. “I think I’ve shown the past couple of games of what I can do when the ball is in my hands.”

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article230541454.html ↗

I do not know who would want to take Dotson in the first. He can’t shoot the NBA 3 yet and he will not finish at the NBA level like he did last season. He’s not a prolific passer.

I’d be shocked.

Kcmatt7 said:

I do not know who would want to take Dotson in the first. He can’t shoot the NBA 3 yet and he will not finish at the NBA level like he did last season. He’s not a prolific passer.

I’d be shocked.

This is my thinking as well. He isn’t strong enough to finish at the rim in the NBA, can’t make NBA threes, and can’t create his own shot. He’s just not a NBA PG right now. He will be in time, but I don’t see it right now

Woodrow said:

Kcmatt7 said:

I do not know who would want to take Dotson in the first. He can’t shoot the NBA 3 yet and he will not finish at the NBA level like he did last season. He’s not a prolific passer.

I’d be shocked.

This is my thinking as well. He isn’t strong enough to finish at the rim in the NBA, can’t make NBA threes, and can’t create his own shot. He’s just not a NBA PG right now. He will be in time, but I don’t see it right now

Ditto all the way around. Just some more seasoning.

I repeat though, if Frank can't make it to first round why would Dotson? I think Dotson might be accepting getting drafted second round.

I think Grimes needs to mature. He just turned 19 so he’s a little bit behind most guys. For reference, he’s only 8 months older than R.J. Hampton who was a 2020 kid until recently. I still can’t see him coming back. I’m not sure how much he and Devon will talk about their plans, so if they both take it to the end their decisions may be totally independent.

@ajvan Even though Wayne was ranked 11th the year he signed with KU, I don't think Wayne was being touted as a Top 5 mock NBA draft pick b4 the season started like Q. So, Q has a longer drop than Wayne, and it could take more time for "rubber meets the road" with Q. I think HEM nailed it when he said that if Q comes back feeling somewhat "victimized", then it's "stick a fork in him" time. If Q opens his eyes and ears, and quits believing the hype, and starts to give his all, then he has a chance to probably be a good player for us. I hope for the best, because he did have several really good games for us. But just like the NBA combine illustrates, Q is maddenly inconsistent. First game, he puts up 9 points, and shows up all over the stat sheet. 2nd game he is "Lost In Space"...goes 1 for 9, takes an absolutely horrible shot when the game is on the line, and completely destroys whatever momentum he built up in the 1st game. He's immature...he needs to grow up.

@KUSTEVE Wayne Selden may not have been a projected top 5 pick, but I think I remember him being a projected late lottery pick prior to his freshman season.

approxinfinity said:

I repeat though, if Frank can't make it to first round why would Dotson? I think Dotson might be accepting getting drafted second round.

Frank was sub 6-0 and Dotson is not. That still matters to a lot of NBA people.

@Texas-Hawk-10 d dot also this good as a frosh! Showing up the other pts except for shooting! I hope that’s a factor to come back. Weak draft though

@ajvan I can buy Q as a distributor or ball-handler, and as long as the ball is in his hands to be a playmaker I would be okay with it. He actually made some really gorgeous passes last season. My worry with that is if Grimes had the ball in his hands all the time that he would also get a lot of shots up, which, looking at his 38.4 FG% and 8.7 PER from last season, would probably not be a good thing for KU.

@KirkIsMyHinrich Nice analysis. Agreed, he showed flashes and we know from his HS reels he knows how to pass. My concerns are he’s not especially fast leading the break or putting pressure on a defense. Not strong/confident with the ball. And made a lot of bone head plays that you can’t have from a lead PG. Also not a threat to score at the rim for the above reasons.

@ajvan He really just needs to get better across the board. Defense, rebounding, finishing, free-throw shooting, speed, strength. As it's already been pointed out, attitude is probably the most important one. His comments that you quoted make it sound like he didn't think he was being used properly last season, and that these couple of games validate that. If that's his mentality, I'm not sure he's looking to get better in his areas of weakness. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it. I'd kind of rather just play McBride and Braun. They seem like they have the right attitude. DMac too, by the way.

His reads are to slow, it's like you see it, me and probably you guys see the open guy before him, by the time we holler thru the tv to pass it, the D hears it too. To late! By the way he interviewed and answered the questions about Self, gotta say I was impressed with him. I really thing he was trying. Puzzling. I think his teammates liked him too. I think his frustrations were w/himself. Kill me now. The bad part was his eagerness to leave, IMO.

Now that's he's talking about coming back and having the ball in his hands...please tell me this won't affect the Hampton recruitment.

@ajvan that's not the interview I heard. I'm not agreeing with that.

@Crimsonorblue22 You mean the quotes in the KC Star?

@ajvan I mean having the ball in his hands!😠

From KU sports.com

“After Grimes finished the outing with 1-for-9 shooting, Bilas said the draft hopeful “really struggled” and wasn’t able to properly follow up “a pretty good showing” the previous day.

Grimes played 32 minutes Friday, going 1-for-6 on 3-pointers. He finished with 9 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and 2 turnovers.

ESPN front office insider Bobby Marks noted during the broadcast that back before the 2018-19 season began Grimes was considered a top-20 pick.

“Now we don’t even have him ranked,” Marks continued. “This gave him an opportunity to kind of showcase in front of NBA teams some things that he didn’t do at the University of Kansas.”

Although Marks praised Grimes for doing “a little bit of everything” in Thursday’s scrimmage, when Grimes scored 9 points and rounded out his stat line with 4 boards, 3 assists and 3 steals, he maintained Grimes is not a one-and-done type of talent.

“I don’t care what kind of feedback you get in the next 24 hours,” Marks said, adding Grimes needs to become a more consistent player.”

Not sure I would want him back at KU, because I don’t think grimes is mentally invested in the college game. I’m betting his parents have been and are continuing to fuel his delusion that he is NBA material. Non-delusional parents would have told him a while back to stay in School and develop there, get stronger, work on his game, and work towards getting a degree unless his draft stock rises to a sure first rounder. Non-delusional parents would have told him that nba people as well as overseas pro recruiters would rather have more mature, more developed physically, more seasoned, more prepared kids then 19 year olds except in rare cases. Non-delusional parents would have told him a pro basketball career is relatively short on average, and that his next chapter in life will at minimum require an undergraduate degree, and stats show that it more difficult to complete that degree when you are older and trying to balance working and going to school. Non-delusional parents would have explained to him that college is a very valuable time in one’s life, priceless experiences, making connections and friends, expanding one’s mind and learning new things, and having FUN at the time of your life when you are supposed to. That you can have your cake and eat it too... a degree and going pro!
But Grimes and his parents are drinking the koolaid.

And - On Hampton, I would LOVE to be wrong, and would happily eat my words with both hands, but haven’t we seen the OAD movie many times already?? We pretty much know the plot by heart. They shine early on against lesser competition, then by conference play they struggle, trying to learn the system, doing their best to play D even though they aren’t mentally 100% invested because they know they are moving on to the schlepathon that is the No Defense Association next year, Self having to balance giving them their requisite OAD minutes and benching them for freshman mistakes. Then when we lose in whatever round of the tourney, they tweet “what an amazing experience it was playing for KU, thanks all for the memories” and announce they are leaving.

@Crimsonorblue22 Totally, I think he had the ball in his hands plenty of times.

Grimes complaints ring hollow. He had plenty of opportunity. He wasn’t the pony guard, because Dotson was the better option. If that’s the case, why would he be a better nba point guard than college? Delusional kiddo. Hope he gets his head on straight, he has a ton of work ahead of him.

@Bosthawk I have real mixed feelings about calling out parents as good or bad based on whether their kids go to school, or go pro. If you wanted to substitute the phrase "non-delusional parents" for " good parents", then I could certainly feel more at ease. I'm sure they've been told for years their son was a lock for the NBA, so they would naturally feel the problem with Q's game last year was he wasn't handling the ball, running the offense, which was a big change for him. Which is why Q said we hadn't seen 50% of his game. The NBA combine is currently blowing up their hopes and dreams because it is exposing it wasn't the system he was in that made him play so poorly. Big dreams die hard, and I'm not going to fault Q or his parents for not seeing this as clearly as those of us who aren't nearly as emotionally invested in the situation.

As for not valuing the college bb experience, I blame the whole system for that. How many Top 10 recruits are coming back for their 2nd year of college? Not very many. The NBA, and the allure of huge money has cheapened the whole college experience. You have a guy like Wayne Selden, who wasn't even drafted, who made 1.5 million last year. If Wayne is retained by the Bulls next year, he will have made 4.7 million dollars in his first 3 years. If we amortize that over a 30 year period, he would average $157,000 a year. I am sure there are lots of KU grads who wouldn't mind that.

@Bosthawk Hampton is a unicorn. He also LOVES KU so I think he would at least unpack for his one year here. So if he loves KU why hasn't he committed yet well his dad is heavily involved... Fingers crossed. Things are still looking good right now.

@dylans Who was the horse guard? ;)

@KUSTEVE there were a whole lot of guys playing in the combine that we will never see playing in the NBA. Top guys weren't there, so anyone that looked decent, wasn't playing against future NBA guys, just my opinion. Tennessee boys weren't impressive. They also didn't show much of the games. Saw Romeo interview, did he have a good year? I think he's picked pretty high.

@BShark gotta love auto correct. I don't know what I typed, but it wasn't pony!

dylans said:

@BShark gotta love auto correct. I don't know what I typed, but it wasn't pony!

My assumption was you meant point guard. Phones are goofy sometimes.

@BShark what I meant and what my fat fingers type are often far different things!

@KUSTEVE

I took your suggestion and edited my post from “good” to “non-delusional” parents

but as a parent, (and I know ther are lots of parents on this site ) I can only say that I know that I would give my son that advice. The info and statistics are out there in plain sight. Parents are supposed to see the big picture and do what’s best for their kids, even when it is at odds with how they feel. And yes I do understand how easy it is to live vicariously thru your kids, especially when they are excellent In sports which our society places an outsized importance on.

@Bosthawk

Ask yourself: "Is this really what we have to do to win?"

These OADs are the "fools gold" we've all been talking about for a few years now.

It's the "let's take the lazy approach" to college basketball. After all, it is hard to find good players who will work their butts off through college. And I mean WORK! I mean maximizing their time to make it all about basketball and academics.

We get a team of these guys and we beef up our developmental coaching, we are going to win a lot of games. More than we win now.

I don't know how much more of this OAD drama I can handle. The quality of D1 has dropped so far it is unrecognizable.

But until we change to a true developmental program, I'll cheer on the big talent. It's about all we have now.

I don't want us to become another Duke. Duke was the laughing stock of college basketball last year... losing with all that NBA talent. Coach K looked like a washed up coach. He could hardly have wished for a better scenario than he had.

I miss real basketball!