🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Well just read an article from CBS - poster put on the Phog.

Written from Dennis Dodd from CBS : - -According to the article a very high NCAA official said that At least 6 college programs will be notified of MAJOR NCAA VIOLATIONS by Summer - -Level 1 Violations which is the most severe

The NCAA offical tells CBS sports that TWO High Profile will receive Notice of allegations by July

Wilcox said only those Schools involved in eligibility issues will be impacted THAT right there is sounds REALLY bad. - -Guys I found this article off the Phog one of the threads - or guess probably on CBS - -holy shit - don't like the sounds of this - -you all need to check it out read the article - -makes me worry - - BAD - -if lucky the two major Schools would be Arizona & Louisville but pretty skeptical about that - -check it out

We good. They have jack s#!+

I don’t know much black and white facts as some of you but if they did have something on us the Silvio would have been suspended indefinitely. Well that’s how my brain works anyways

FarmerJayhawk said:

We good. They have jack s#!+

This is my stance as well. Also they said stuff about only schools that played ineligible guys. Sitting Billy continues to pay dividends.

@BShark Dook?!? Lol yeah right.

@rockchalkwyo Think of it this way .. Silvio was suspended for a year over the entire deal. We know that because the entire suspension was not set aside. The second year was. Silvio is a junior because his sophomore year was lost to suspension. If the suspension was revoked, he’d have been able to use a redshirt and he’d be a sophomore.

I think this is really important.

We played a guy who got a one year suspension.

And we admitted that the guy who paid Silvio is a booster.

Before someone claims that it was “just $2500”, remember thar Silvio got a one year suspension.

I also think Self’s claim of having no knowledge of any third party providing benefits won’t help, because that’s wholly implausible and the NCAA knows that. I think a risk here is the NCAA having some info on our “knowledge.” And the tape of KT? That is devastating. It plainly shows our mindset.

We clearly had folks that were convicted of federal charges in bed with our coaches.

We should be very concerned. But I’ve said that from the start.

@HighEliteMajor Yup you make a very good point.

I still think it is much ado about nothing for everyone. NCAA needs their moneymakers. Time will tell. There won't be any post season bans for this upcoming season I think.

From Wilcox’s quotes, seems like the NCAA already has its mind made up before it even sits down with witnesses. I’ll say that if their entire case is a wiretap without the full conversation, it’s a Charmin soft case. We only know what Code’s lawyer said, not the entire transcript. Fact of the trial is KU didn’t know about Silvio or Billy. KU only admitted Gassnola was hypothetically a booster for the purposes of the Silvio case, nothing else.

Fact is they have more on 6 schools I can think of: LSU, Zona, USC, Auburn, Okie Lite, and Louisville. If they vacate wins and add sanctions for us, those schools should get the death penalty.

Also the NCAA can go choke on a bag of Richards. I’ll never forget they made a Czech grad transfer dig up 4 years of per diems and meal receipts, then took 3 months to process them all to ensure she wasn’t paid a dime. Almost made her delay her master’s by a year. But blah blah student athlete welfare like they give a rat’s ass about anything but cashing checks.

If they go after what Kurt said about Zion, then they would have to go after Dook, and that’s not going to happen. In fact…to protect Dook’s money machine, NCAA honcho Wilcox made it a point to say they would NOT be considering KT's statement. This is what Wilcox said:

“Any wiretap that was introduced into evidence [we can use],” Wilcox said. “It wasn’t. That was leaked. We don’t have access to that.”

So, Louisville and Arizona are going to get rolled. They might try to take away our Final Four, but they might figure they already hammered Silvio for an entire year, and maybe that pound of flesh will be enough.

FarmerJayhawk said:

We good. They have jack s#!+

not so sure - -they was saying they were looking at schools that were having eligibility issues - -that's exactly what we were having with Silvio - whether he was eligible or not

FarmerJayhawk said:

From Wilcox’s quotes, seems like the NCAA already has its mind made up before it even sits down with witnesses. I’ll say that if their entire case is a wiretap without the full conversation, it’s a Charmin soft case. We only know what Code’s lawyer said, not the entire transcript. Fact of the trial is KU didn’t know about Silvio or Billy. KU only admitted Gassnola was hypothetically a booster for the purposes of the Silvio case, nothing else.

Fact is they have more on 6 schools I can think of: LSU, Zona, USC, Auburn, Okie Lite, and Louisville. If they vacate wins and add sanctions for us, those schools should get the death penalty.

I know they said in the Article about Townsend -- they couldn't use the phone tap - because it wasn't entered in that FBI crap - -so they can't use it. - They said the only think they could do about that was use it for a sit down and talk whatever the hell that means - I know they said that the phone tap was very clear with our assistant talking very specific how much it would take money wise for Zion to come to KU - -but they can't use it - lucky there.

Where is there any CONCRETE evidence that any our staff was in on payments??

I haven’t followed all the details of all of this, and know that apparently they can’t use the phone tap, but help me here... we are basing KU’s supposed culpability on 2 things right??? KT saying to Zions dad “well we will do whatever it takes “ in response to him asking for money. That does NOT sound like hard evidence... and self texting “we good” to Gassnola is NOT hard evidence.
If KT said... “ didn’t you get the check???” Or Self texting “ did the payment get Silvio on board?? “ well yes that would be a completely different story. EVIDENCE, not conjecture or presumption.

Bosthawk said:

Where is there any CONCRETE evidence that any our staff was in on payments??

It doesn't exist. :)

@jayballer73 They aren't going to ban us from the NCAA tournament. They aren't going to limit our scholarships. They could take away victories and a Final Four, but that's a pretty meaningless penalty in my books. If this causes us to recruit the way we recruited this year ( except the RJ fiasco ), then maybe it turns out to be the light bulb moment where we regain our recruiting sanity. We made 2 EEs and a FF, in large part, because of two low rated guards ( Frank/Devonte ) that bought into the system, unpacked their bags, and dedicated themselves to KU.

The truth is, we haven't won dick with these OADs. All they've brought... for the most part... is trouble and dissension. And the teams that are using the OAD model aren't winning anything, either. Experience wins. The evidence is very clear- why else would the Squid, the king of the OAD, be working the grad transfer wire like a madman?

@KUSTEVE

“The truth is, we haven’t won dick with these OADs. All they’ve brought… for the most part… is trouble and dissension. And the teams that are using the OAD model aren’t winning anything, either. Experience wins. “

G—d. Damn. Right.

This isn’t about OAD’s. The guys who were in the thick of this ish weren’t even considered OAD’s: Silvio and Tugs Bowen. This goes waaaaaaay higher than the top 10-15 kids.

@FarmerJayhawk This goes way deeper than anyone wants to admit. Like for example take the likely best player in KSU's class this year DaJuan Gordon. Kid is out of Chicago (guys like Izzo bemoan just how dirty Chicago is) and is all set to go to SMU. Suddenly boom KSU is not only in play but the pick. Very interesting situation if you ask me...

Exactly. Even grad transfers get it. Tucker was a bidding war, for example. Want to clean up the game? Bring this stuff into the open. Nobody has followed the amatuerism model since it got started. To call it a farce is an insult to farces (which are actually funny)

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 They aren't going to ban us from the NCAA tournament. They aren't going to limit our scholarships. They could take away victories and a Final Four, but that's a pretty meaningless penalty in my books. If this causes us to recruit the way we recruited this year ( except the RJ fiasco ), then maybe it turns out to be the light bulb moment where we regain our recruiting sanity. We made 2 EEs and a FF, in large part, because of two low rated guards ( Frank/Devonte ) that bought into the system, unpacked their bags, and dedicated themselves to KU.

The truth is, we haven't won dick with these OADs. All they've brought... for the most part... is trouble and dissension. And the teams that are using the OAD model aren't winning anything, either. Experience wins. The evidence is very clear- why else would the Squid, the king of the OAD, be working the grad transfer wire like a madman?

The whole thing is one big Cluster - -F - - -

@FarmerJayhawk Billy was a OAD. Cliff was a OAD. Selby was a OAD. There was plenty of smoke around Billy before we took him. I remember BShark saying before Preston signed that there were rumors the kid was on the take. In fact, BShark even said no way would we take Preston. As I recall, there was whispers around Cliffie, too. I'm not saying that Silvio directly fits the narrative, but if his case causes us to pause before we go after the latest murky OAD, then so much the better.

@BShark best avi yet! Better than a cat!🙄

@Crimsonorblue22 Feeling bad ass might delete later idk giggle

KUSTEVE said:

@FarmerJayhawk Billy was a OAD. Cliff was a OAD. Selby was a OAD. There was plenty of smoke around Billy before we took him. I remember BShark saying before Preston signed that there were rumors the kid was on the take. In fact, BShark even said no way would we take Preston. As I recall, there was whispers around Cliffie, too. I'm not saying that Silvio directly fits the narrative, but if his case causes us to pause before we go after the latest murky OAD, then so much the better.

Sure. So were Josh, Wiggins, and Xavier. We should pursue the best players out there, period. We only took Billy because we were outbid by Ayton. I’m saying if you want to pursue “clean” players, be prepared to take a team full of Mitch Lightfoot’s.

FarmerJayhawk said:

We only took Billy because we were outbid by Ayton. I’m saying if you want to pursue “clean” players, be prepared to take a team full of Mitch Lightfoot’s.

Was about to comment on this myself. And if we do end up with Ayton, maybe we do get buried because he would have played.

I know, the minute that it's mentioned that we might not get off completely unscathed, there is a compulsive reaction to argue that the NCAA doesn't have a case.

But let's remember a few things -

1. The term floated above, that they don't have any "concrete" proof, is just irrelevant. They don't need "concrete" proof. The NCAA doesn't make decisions based on some "concrete" proof requirement.

2. The staff and school are required to cooperate. That includes providing information and being interviewed. So on the KT front, does anyone really think that KT will deny that when asked?

3. I also think there is a misunderstanding on what constitutes evidence. In NCAA proceedings, hearsay can be used as evidence. Further, evidence includes circumstantial evidence. Meaning the the NCAA can connect dots. Don't make the mistake of believing someone has to be on video, or that there is some audio recording. Further, Self's texts with Gassnola are clearly circumstantial evidence that supports the conclusion.

4. And don't make the mistake of thinking the "booster" thing with Gassnola is only because of the KU admission. It's not. It's also because under the NCAA definition, Gassnola fits perfectly. The NCAA, in its ruling on SDS back in February, already found Gassnola to be a "university booster and agent." Looking at Self's texts alone -- heck, he was talking about being happy with Adidas as long as we get some "real guys." Gassnola saying he'd never let us down. "We good" after Gassnola talked to Fenney. The guy is a booster under NCAA rules.

5. Remember, we used Adidas personnel to help in recruiting. That leads to booster status under NCAA rules.

6. The schools are required to have safeguards in place to help control booster activities.

7. Lack of institutional control, a significant concern, can be centered on booster activities. Clearly, Gassnola/Adidas were our recruiting partner. Bags of money. Were we seeking to control that? What were our safeguards?

8. A school can get in trouble for its actions in recruiting regardless of whether the player steps on the court. It's a myth that we have no exposure because Preston didn't play. Gassnola (booster) said he paid Preston's mom $90,000 to attend KU.

9. The NCAA will make just as much money in an NCAA tournament with or without Kansas. The NCAA won't lose money because KU loses 3 scholarships. The NCAA won't lose money if KU has recruiting limitations. The NCAA won't lose money if a coach or coaches get suspended.

10. And finally, we don't know what information the NCAA has. It is certainly reasonable to assume that they have stumbled across, been provided, or acquired more information that we know.

11. I tend to think this quote from Stan Wilcox with the NCAA enforcement division, is of significance: "We’re not going to be holding back. We’re moving forward with everything possible in the arsenal we have to collectively change the culture that has come to light."

We would all like this to go away. I hope it does.

And if you want to go down the road of only pursuing guys 25-75, let’s go through them from that class:
Jontay Porter (nope), Mark Williams (who?), Silvio (😎), Daniel Gafford (no shot), Jeremiah Tilmon (never meshed with the staff), Chuma Okeke (wasn’t leaving the South), Cody Riley (lolz), Rayshaun Hammons (wasn’t leaving GA), Jericho Sims (ehhh), Ira Lee (who?), Ike Obiagu (never developed). I could go on but it doesn’t get better b

@FarmerJayhawk You got it! On the other hand, Louisville and Arizona....

@HighEliteMajor Something will happen with KU, I'd bet on that. I also think it just won't amount to much in the end.

@FarmerJayhawk I feel like we have hashed this out a lot recently. It feels more and more like one of those topics. You know the ones, where neither will change their stance on it regardless of evidence. I won't bring up the others, it's all pretty heated issues.

FarmerJayhawk said:

Also the NCAA can go choke on a bag of Richards. I’ll never forget they made a Czech grad transfer dig up 4 years of per diems and meal receipts, then took 3 months to process them all to ensure she wasn’t paid a dime. Almost made her delay her master’s by a year. But blah blah student athlete welfare like they give a rat’s ass about anything but cashing checks.

A bag of richard's, Lol!! I take that like myself you are not a big fan of as The Boz called them the National Communists Against Athletes?

@HighEliteMajor
1. They don't even have almost proof.

1. KU can stonewall. See North Carolina, University of

2. It's all really flimsy. They don't have full context of what the conversations were about or what was said.

3. KU can and will contest this. They have the right and ability to withdraw their admission since they only admitted it as a hypothetical.

4. Under that definition, every apparel company is a booster and every school is going down in flames since they all do it. See Bagley, Marvin.

5. See 4 and 5.

6. It won't be. The LOIC charge is usually reserved for the USC's of the world, where violations span multiple sports across multiple years.

7. Since KU didn't know about Billy, held him out, then cooperated, the NCAA won't really care about him. They also can't compel Billy or his mom to talk. And since the coaches didn't know, they have zilch.

8. The NCAA has a long history of looking out for big basketball programs, especially recently. They let UNC skate after waking up one day and figuring out they didn't have any jurisdiction over academics after spending years and millions of dollars saying they ackshully did.

9. They don't have anything the FBI gathered. So again, zilch.

10. Wilcox is all hat, no cattle. He can preach righteous indignation all he wants but the case against KU is flimsy. The cases against the other schools I mentioned are much stronger, given that they had coaches arrested, actual testimony about the staff playing a part in facilitating payments, and even paying players themselves. KU has none of that.

Marco said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

Also the NCAA can go choke on a bag of Richards. I’ll never forget they made a Czech grad transfer dig up 4 years of per diems and meal receipts, then took 3 months to process them all to ensure she wasn’t paid a dime. Almost made her delay her master’s by a year. But blah blah student athlete welfare like they give a rat’s ass about anything but cashing checks.

A bag of richard's, Lol!! I take it @FarmerJayhawk that like myself you are not a big fan of as The Boz called them the National Communists Against Athletes?

I have friends in AD's across the country and I'll just say none of them have ever said a kind thing about the National Committee of Asshats in Athletics

BShark said:

@HighEliteMajor Something will happen with KU, I'd bet on that. I also think it just won't amount to much in the end.

@FarmerJayhawk I feel like we have hashed this out a lot recently. It feels more and more like one of those topics. You know the ones, where neither will change their stance on it regardless of evidence. I won't bring up the others, it's all pretty heated issues.

ya people who think we walking through this unscathed is just - just not facing reality.

the NCAA I think has a Vendetta against us - -if there is ANY way that they can make any kind of an example out of us - - you can bet your last pair of Haines they gonna do just that.

You can bet your sweet ass if there is a snowballs chance in hell that they can hit us with a Level one infraction -- you can take it to the bank they will.. - Like Steve said I think there is a real chance with lose some wins and quite possible stripped of out final 4 - no how - -no way are we walking Scott free from this smelling like a rose. - - -ROCK CHALK ALLD AY LONG BABY

FarmerJayhawk said:

@HighEliteMajor
1. They don't even have almost proof.

1. KU can stonewall. See North Carolina, University of

2. It's all really flimsy. They don't have full context of what the conversations were about or what was said.

3. KU can and will contest this. They have the right and ability to withdraw their admission since they only admitted it as a hypothetical.

4. Under that definition, every apparel company is a booster and every school is going down in flames since they all do it. See Bagley, Marvin.

5. See 4 and 5.

6. It won't be. The LOIC charge is usually reserved for the USC's of the world, where violations span multiple sports across multiple years.

7. Since KU didn't know about Billy, held him out, then cooperated, the NCAA won't really care about him. They also can't compel Billy or his mom to talk. And since the coaches didn't know, they have zilch.

8. The NCAA has a long history of looking out for big basketball programs, especially recently. They let UNC skate after waking up one day and figuring out they didn't have any jurisdiction over academics after spending years and millions of dollars saying they ackshully did.

9. They don't have anything the FBI gathered. So again, zilch.

10. Wilcox is all hat, no cattle. He can preach righteous indignation all he wants but the case against KU is flimsy. The cases against the other schools I mentioned are much stronger, given that they had coaches arrested, actual testimony about the staff playing a part in facilitating payments, and even paying players themselves. KU has none of that.

Well, I guess you seem to think you know.

1. Sure. Whatever you say. You know. I mean, because you know all the evidence. You know the results of interviews. You know what documents have been produced. You know all of it.

2. That's a great defense.

3. Not really.

4. Read the NCAA rule on boosters one more time. As I mentioned, whether we admitted or not, Gassnola, et. al., were boosters. No different than the car dealer that gives money to the program and has season tickets.

5. Right, the definition is broad. I pointed out a while back how a rogue person attempting to help could fit that definition. But it's how they are used, who they are reporting to, and what they do that is important. Our guys got in trouble. They reported to our coaches. Here, they paid our players to come to KU. Lots of crimes in the world get committed. Unlucky folks go to jail. So just because others do it doesn't mean we skate.

6. I assume you agree.

7. I would suspect that you are correct. But, of course, that charge is not needed to vacate wins or a FF or miss a tourney.

8. Sure, the NCAA won't care about him, since you say so.

9. I hope you're right.

10. So says you. And actually, we know they have what was presented in court. We only have the NCAA making a statement a few months back, but saying they were still pursuing the info. One might also consider that the flow of information might not always be publicly broadcast, and that the flow of information sometimes comes from multiple sources.

11. Again, if you say so. I mean, there's no reason to believe that the NCAA might try to crackdown after coaches and shoeco folks were indicted .. since that really hadn't been a thing until now. But again, you know.

Free your mind. There is a world beyond what you believe. I recognize that we might skate. I think if someone lives in the world believing that it's highly likely we'll skate, they are placing too much money on black.

@HighEliteMajor some points to consider: 1.The FBI did say that we are not at fault,
2. KT's phone conversation reflects his mindset, but KU didn't actually do anything that violated NCAA recruiting rules,
3. Also based on KT's conversation, Zion W. wanted to play for pay; and Zion played for Duke. If anything, Duke should be the one to be nervous,
4. Will NCAA really vacate KU'S games for something beyond 'institutional control'? That is, judging from a reasonable standard should KU have known that DeSousa was inelgible
5. The point is not about any legal logic, but rather your personal value. How much does it really matter if NCAA vacates our Final 4 year? l have already experienced the high of beating Duke and making it to the F4. They cant take away my memory. I'd be concerned if we had actually won and it will be taken away. No one remembers the 2nd or the 4th place finishers.
6. Nothing in the court documented texts proves anything. They are all circumstantial evidence that defense uses to create doubts. "We good," "now just got to get a couple real players..." well, this is recruiting. No where did we offer to pay any money. The only paying party is Addidas and its rep: T.J. Gassno..
7. T.J. GassN is an Addidas employee, not a KU booster. NCAA can think however, but he ain't a booster.

@BCT The booster definition includes a person that has "Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes."

So, you should understand that when a booster offers and pays money, that booster is an extension of the university. As the NCAA said in the SDS finding, the Adidas rep was an "agent" for the university.

KT's conversation is just a part of the puzzle. As I mentioned, as well, circumstantial evidence IS evidence. Folks go to jail on circumstantial evidence all the time. It's dot connecting that juries (and fact finders) are charged with fulfilling. You said it reflects mindset. Correct. That conclusion then is part of how one might interpret other info, such as the SDS texts. Again, just a part of the equation, but one that supports the conclusion.

Memphis had its entire season wiped out for using an ineligible player that was already cleared. Obviously all cases have different facts.

All of this is just part of the discussion, and why there is more than "we have nothing to worry about."

HighEliteMajor said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

@HighEliteMajor
1. They don't even have almost proof.

1. KU can stonewall. See North Carolina, University of

2. It's all really flimsy. They don't have full context of what the conversations were about or what was said.

3. KU can and will contest this. They have the right and ability to withdraw their admission since they only admitted it as a hypothetical.

4. Under that definition, every apparel company is a booster and every school is going down in flames since they all do it. See Bagley, Marvin.

5. See 4 and 5.

6. It won't be. The LOIC charge is usually reserved for the USC's of the world, where violations span multiple sports across multiple years.

7. Since KU didn't know about Billy, held him out, then cooperated, the NCAA won't really care about him. They also can't compel Billy or his mom to talk. And since the coaches didn't know, they have zilch.

8. The NCAA has a long history of looking out for big basketball programs, especially recently. They let UNC skate after waking up one day and figuring out they didn't have any jurisdiction over academics after spending years and millions of dollars saying they ackshully did.

9. They don't have anything the FBI gathered. So again, zilch.

10. Wilcox is all hat, no cattle. He can preach righteous indignation all he wants but the case against KU is flimsy. The cases against the other schools I mentioned are much stronger, given that they had coaches arrested, actual testimony about the staff playing a part in facilitating payments, and even paying players themselves. KU has none of that.

Well, I guess you seem to think you know.

1. Sure. Whatever you say. You know. I mean, because you know all the evidence. You know the results of interviews. You know what documents have been produced. You know all of it.

2. That's a great defense.

3. Not really.

4. Read the NCAA rule on boosters one more time. As I mentioned, whether we admitted or not, Gassnola, et. al., were boosters. No different than the car dealer that gives money to the program and has season tickets.

5. Right, the definition is broad. I pointed out a while back how a rogue person attempting to help could fit that definition. But it's how they are used, who they are reporting to, and what they do that is important. Our guys got in trouble. They reported to our coaches. Here, they paid our players to come to KU. Lots of crimes in the world get committed. Unlucky folks go to jail. So just because others do it doesn't mean we skate.

6. I assume you agree.

7. I would suspect that you are correct. But, of course, that charge is not needed to vacate wins or a FF or miss a tourney.

8. Sure, the NCAA won't care about him, since you say so.

9. I hope you're right.

10. So says you. And actually, we know they have what was presented in court. We only have the NCAA making a statement a few months back, but saying they were still pursuing the info. One might also consider that the flow of information might not always be publicly broadcast, and that the flow of information sometimes comes from multiple sources.

11. Again, if you say so. I mean, there's no reason to believe that the NCAA might try to crackdown after coaches and shoeco folks were indicted .. since that really hadn't been a thing until now. But again, you know.

Free your mind. There is a world beyond what you believe. I recognize that we might skate. I think if someone lives in the world believing that it's highly likely we'll skate, they are placing too much money on black.

Oh I’m fully aware of that. I’m a classical liberal in academia, and a member of the Heterodox Academy. Good times!

To be clear, I’m not saying we’ll absolutely skate. I just don’t see a strong case here. The OLC at KU doesn’t think they do either. Long himself has said they can and will assert Gassnola is not a booster. I also know how the DoJ works, and they’re not going to spend time and resources to share with the NCAA.

UNC stonewalled and got off. It can work. Will it here? Not sure. But we know there’s a non-zero probability it will.

I’m in the camp that doesn’t care about vacated wins or titles. Who won in 2013? Louisville. Did Reggie Bush win a Heisman? Yeah, we all saw it happen. Did Memphis win a game to play us in 2008? Sure. They didn’t just appear from the vapor. Unrelated point, but it’s a dumb penalty since it punishes kids who had nothing to do with cheating. Luke Hancock was great in those games (we all remember it) but doesn’t have a ring. So dumb.

@FarmerJayhawk I'm having what you're having. If we skate, I'd gladly buy the drinks. I live in a world of pie graphs, though. Probabilities and possibilities. The pie graph is never one color.

The damn NCAA doesn’t need proof, as such. They don’t share evidence with the public. They simply say”Tag! You’re it!” And any team is screwed. No recourse.

HighEliteMajor said:

@FarmerJayhawk I'm having what you're having. If we skate, I'd gladly buy the drinks. I live in a world of pie graphs, though. Probabilities and possibilities. The pie graph is never one color.

Oops. Typo. I’m not saying we’ll absolutely skate. I think there’s a good chance we do based on my analysis of the facts and NCAA SOP. I also only work in the world of probabilities and risk. Much more complicated than the alternative, and unfortunately a way of thinking that society doesn’t emphasize in our education systems.

From a CBS article today-

“Six college basketball programs involved in the FBI’s investigation into the sport will be hearing from the NCAA about alleged violations this summer.”

“NCAA vice president Stan Wilcox didn’t name schools when he talked to CBS Sports on Wednesday but said that the Southern District of New York’s legal cases would be a good starting point for who will be targeted regarding potential eligibility violations.”

“ ‘ I would just say that it's clear when you look at the number of cases that were listed by the Southern District of New York, those numbers are more than likely be reflected in the number of cases that are going to be moving forward,’ said Wilcox.”

I wish I could be optimistic. I really do.

@HighEliteMajor I am on the same wavelength as you. We did play an ineligible player. Vacated wins is a given. FF vacated..given. I think the NCAA is going to pound their chest. Hoping for the best, but I think we will be penalized. Probably scholarship reductions. Hopefully not post season bans....but I think some school(s) will get that.

Yes true.. but very interesting that they backed off on Silvio’s two year penalty. If they can decide whatever they want to do, hard evidence or not, and they ostensibly want to target us, why then give a year back from their original 2 year ban decision?? They didn’t need to do that, correct? They could have easily stuck by their original penalty.

And If they have resources, in terms of the connect-the-dots line of inquiry, the biggest dot-connecting would be Zion to Duke a very short time after the tapped KT phone conversation in which Zion-dad specifically asked for payment.... Can or will the NCAA attempt to follow up on that? My guess would be no, way too much to handle at this point.

I don’t have the time or frankly the interest to do a lot of research into what’s going on with different programs (that’s why this site is so great because of the knowledgeable people here) but Did other schools sit players who were under any kind of suspicion of impropriety like we did?? And as been pointed out, we are not close to being the biggest violators in this latest round of allegations..

@Hawk8086 Sanctions seem inescapable to me. Would be hard for me to believe that we're not one of the six programs referenced. But the large majority here believes there is not much to be concerned about. Lots of directions this could go.

@Bosthawk I think the DeSousa decision was related to the student-athlete and his particular situation. Think of it this way -- we played a player, through the final four, who was then suspended for a full season. Further, it might give an insight into the NCAA's view of the seriousness of this when they hit DeSousa with a two year suspension initially. That's a big deal. Also, remember, the appeals board is a different composition - the Student-Athlete Reinstatement Committee. The Duke thing has me very interested too, and I would be curious as well as to what the NCAA is doing on that -- if we are hit with sanctions.

@HighEliteMajor Many people thought UNC would be punished heavily too. I just don't have much confidence in the NCAA to do much of anything.

I expect KU to get served with a NOA. I also expect it to be fought and not much to come out of it. I'm more than fine with some games technically not counting and a reduction of 1-2 scholarships. Basically just avoid a post season ban and I'm good.

@HighEliteMajor
“it might give an insight into the NCAA’s view of the seriousness of this when they hit DeSousa with a two year suspension initially. That’s a big deal. Also, remember, the appeals board is a different composition - the Student-Athlete Reinstatement Committee.”

A lot of people forget this. They didn’t say SDSs suspension was unjust they just said 2 years was. If he/we were 100% innocent then SDS would be a SO and not a JR.

I'll wait to see the announcements. We know we were investigated and logic would seem to suggest at minimum we get some sort of NOA regardless if the findings are minor or serious in nature. I fully believe KU will fight and have solid ground to stand on. None of that matters with the NCAA though. The headlines won't be pretty, again, if this is smeared the right way. I think the thing that will be of most interest is whether KT or Self is directly assumed of guilt in the NOA...

The NCAA was going to let him play as a SR, instead of a full on ban. That's at least something slightly positive.

@BShark

Solid point here. They could have permanently banned him which basically happened to Bowen for example.

Bosthawk said:

I don’t have the time or frankly the interest to do a lot of research into what’s going on with different programs (that’s why this site is so great because of the knowledgeable people here) but Did other schools sit players who were under any kind of suspicion of impropriety like we did?? And as been pointed out, we are not close to being the biggest violators in this latest round of allegations..

Yes other players were held out. Miami & Auburn did this. I'm probably missing a few others off the top of my head.

@BeddieKU23 The schools that just played guys who they directly paid though... If anyone is getting absolutely murdered, it's NC State.

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 The schools that just played guys who they directly paid though... If anyone is getting absolutely murdered, it's NC State.

you mean Cleveland St?? Couldn't resist.

USC, Arizona, Louisville, NC St, Auburn have serious issues facing them. I'd put KU in the next tier of worry

Could you guys imagine @HighEliteMajor if KU had a situation with actual direct hard evidence like those schools? Oh my folks! ;)

But I will just leave it with re-iterating KU will likely get an NOA and it will be fought. Just have to wait and see now.

@BShark DaJuan Gordon - easy explanation. He took a sudden interest in livestock.

More musings…

Of Our recent acquisitions – Moss, Wilson, and Enaurua, I think we can be near 90% certain that they and their families asked self and staff point blank “ what is the status of KU and the NCAA inquiry? “ I truly doubt any of these players, players who easily could sign with other high tier D1 programs, would want to choose KU thinking that there was a 50% or at least significantly high probability that they will get slapped with a level one sanction. Playing in the NCAA tournament is a big big deal to any college basketball player. I highly doubt that Self’s answer to this question would have been “what ? nooooo, we good !! At least as far as we know! ( nervous chuckling )”
We can be near 100% certain that the answer was a detailed point by point dare I say scripted response, Hell, they might have even had a KU attorney on Skype with them, laying out their position Carefully and clearly, that they did everything correctly, the NCAA has nothing of substance on them, and that they would never withhold any information to a player in their family, and that they are 100 percent confident That they are in the right on this.

And following this line of thinking, of our recent transfers, Moore, KJ, Grimes, does anybody thank that at least part of their decision to leave would have been a worry that KU would be punished badly? Personally I would say no.

And Braun and McBride had to have also asked self this same question as well. Again who would want to sign on with the team that has a high probability of missing
The tourney or Other major sanction

@Bosthawk

If you build it they will come. KU had open scholarships so I think regardless of whether it was the 50th ranked player or 400th KU would have filled spots with someone. As most of us have saw this spring, we went through a lot of potential targets to find those who were willing to come here. Optimistically we have to feel good that two Top 100 kids signed here with pro potential down the road. They weren't scared off at least.

An important part will be what was communicated to the signees in the fall and the most recent ones if trouble does come KU's way. If KU is slapped with allegations and say loses a year of postseason access those kids would have a case for immediate eligibility somewhere else if they could prove they were misled about potential upcoming sanctions. Recent precedence has been established as wel. Off the top of my head I can think of Shea Patterson leaving Ole Miss for Michigan in Football and gaining eligibility after Ole Miss allegedly mislead or completely lied about potential sanctions coming to the program. If nothing of substance comes to KU those 4 signees have nothing to worry about. I'm sure the staff gave their honest answers to those families but we can't be sure their honesty will matter if the NCAA comes calling.

This whole money train is about to go off the rails. There's too much money in too many people's hands at this point. You cannot stuff the genie back into the bottle. I don't think KU gets sanctioned, but only because they would have to sanction a lot more teams than just five or six. They would basically have to sanction most of the P5 teams, and if they were to ban half the P5 teams from the NCAA tournament that could destroy the tournament.

justanotherfan said:

This whole money train is about to go off the rails. There's too much money in too many people's hands at this point. You cannot stuff the genie back into the bottle. I don't think KU gets sanctioned, but only because they would have to sanction a lot more teams than just five or six. They would basically have to sanction most of the P5 teams, and if they were to ban half the P5 teams from the NCAA tournament that could destroy the tournament.

This is it. They absolutely do not want to stop their money maker. Especially now that their cartel might actually start seeing some competition.

Word is the two major violators are Arizona and Louisville. I could see both getting hit with post season bans, but I think if that happens, that's also where it stops.

The NCAA jut doesn't have enough marketable teams to have more than one P5 team from each P5 conference on a ban at any one time. They simply can't afford it. And part of me thinks the NCAA will be hesitant to hit Arizona with a penalty because they need west coast TV markets. The NCAA tournament needs to draw west coast eyeballs. With the Pac-12 down, and Gonzaga having a limited following, its really hard to attract that interest.

The money train is slowing down. It won't take much more to derail it completely.

I think Zona and Louisville get nuked from orbit. I think Louisville is still in hot water over the hookers.

For a money train that is allegedly slowing down, and subject to derailing, the trend line is up.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/219605/ncaa-revenue-breakdown/ ↗

Is there something I am missing?

I read an incredibly boring, acronym-laden 53-page PDF about the internal operating procedures of the NCAA Committee on Infractions today. It lists among a lot of other things the types of penalties the NCAA can impose on member institutions and the level of violations that would warrant those penalties, reconsideration of penalties, and the appeals process.

PDF ↗

I would start on Page 37.

I don't think KU will receive a postseason ban, but it's hard to know because everything in here is so vague and open to interpretation. I would guess if we get anything that it will be a vacation of wins and records, but nothing the NCAA does would surprise me. Most people (even non-KU fans) were surprised at the severity of the penalty given to SDS. I could see the NCAA being like "Fine, Silvio is eligible to play in 19-20, but KU's not. 1-year post-season ban."

@KirkIsMyHinrich You're a brave soul to have wadded through that document: :nerd:

HighEliteMajor said:

For a money train that is allegedly slowing down, and subject to derailing, the trend line is up.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/219605/ncaa-revenue-breakdown/ ↗

Is there something I am missing?

Fewer eyeballs on the tournament reduces the NCAA’s negotiating power when tv deals come up for renegotiating. If multiple high profile schools are hit with postseason bans, the NCAA could lose millions in revenue. All about positioning for the future.

@FarmerJayhawk Yup. Also change is coming. We are just in the early stages. The NBA desperately wants the G League to become the main developmental league for NBA basketball. We are seeing players that are eligible now opting to play overseas instead. Where it all shakes out I can't say but the NCAA will not 100% be the same.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Hawk8086 Sanctions seem inescapable to me. Would be hard for me to believe that we're not one of the six programs referenced. But the large majority here believes there is not much to be concerned about. Lots of directions this could go.

@Bosthawk I think the DeSousa decision was related to the student-athlete and his particular situation. Think of it this way -- we played a player, through the final four, who was then suspended for a full season. Further, it might give an insight into the NCAA's view of the seriousness of this when they hit DeSousa with a two year suspension initially. That's a big deal. Also, remember, the appeals board is a different composition - the Student-Athlete Reinstatement Committee. The Duke thing has me very interested too, and I would be curious as well as to what the NCAA is doing on that -- if we are hit with sanctions.

Like I said previously - -oh ya we gonna get hit. To what degree - who knows , but for those people who think we are skating through this - -I really hope they will share some of the shit their smoking cause I'm telling you the NCAA is looking to make an example out of someone of this whole thing -and I think they woukld love if there is any possible way for it to be KU. - I think they have a vendetta for KU - -they sporting a wood for us. - -I think we lose some wins - I think they taking our final 4 - no how - -no way we getting out of this smelling like arose. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

BeddieKU23 said:

I'll wait to see the announcements. We know we were investigated and logic would seem to suggest at minimum we get some sort of NOA regardless if the findings are minor or serious in nature. I fully believe KU will fight and have solid ground to stand on. None of that matters with the NCAA though. The headlines won't be pretty, again, if this is smeared the right way. I think the thing that will be of most interest is whether KT or Self is directly assumed of guilt in the NOA...

I think when things are all said and done , I think Coach Townsend may be let go at the end of the day

Well just got through listening to an interview that our local sports talk had with Dennis Dodd - which wrote this article - from the NCAA and Schools:

Question was asked to Dodd: - -Are you surprised with the way this NCAA High official came out and spoke of things the way he did?

Dodd's answer was he was Stunned, - being said Dodd has been around along time - -seen and heard a lot of things - Saying that if he is saying that he was stunned - -he is thinking this is going to be worse then people think. - Talking about the NCAA really wants to make a statement with this.

Dodd was asked if he thought KU was going to be one of the six Schools that gets notice - -his response? - -no stunner here - -he says it would seem very reasonable that they would be. - -He says too though that he knows that KU will be vigerously defended by one of the very best that there is. - -Saying that what they may get charged with and what they end up with may be totally different.

The real Stunner here in this - - He said that what's been going or being said that he had heard was that Duke WIL NOT be involved in any of this what so ever - - WTF ! ! ! ! - -GO FIGURE

Dodd is a shill.

BShark said:

Dodd is a shill.

I can't really say that as all he was doing here was passing along information that he has been hearing

Say we do get something and we fight it. Who would be in charge of the ruling? A NCAA committee, a judge(s), or a 3rd party? Forgive the dumb question I’m just not sure how this all will work

rockchalkwyo said:

Say we do get something and we fight it. Who would be in charge of the ruling? A NCAA committee, a judge(s), or a 3rd party? Forgive the dumb question I’m just not sure how this all will work

I sure don't know

jayballer73 said:

BShark said:

Dodd is a shill.

I can't really say that as all he was doing here was passing along information that he has been hearing

Nah he's a shill just like that THIS IS MARCH idiot whose name is escaping me. Aaron Torres isn't far behind either. Safe to say I'm not a fan of any of those three...

they're coming for us...omg...what's we gonna do????? the sky IS falling.....

KUSTEVE said:

they're coming for us...omg...what's we gonna do????? the sky IS falling.....

good for you buddy you hang in there

@KUSTEVE The BIGGER thing in this is - - - - their NOT coming for Duke - - imagine that

https://anchor.fm/marcus-gradney/episodes/Grads--Yoda-e4aoko/Shad--Grads-ah1nqu ↗

Skip to 21 minutes in. :)

Or listen to the whole thing, that's totally cool too, but that bit is relevant to the current NCAA scene. Grads and Yoda are real ones.

@justanotherfan gotta tag ya

@jayballer73 It's like the weather...you can worry about it...you can cuss it...but it is still going to do what it's going to do...so why sweat it?

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 It's like the weather...you can worry about it...you can cuss it...but it is still going to do what it's going to do...so why sweat it?

Oh I've already accepted whats coming - - just trying to give a good cold hard slap of reality to those who try and sugar coat and deny that's it's not - -You know what I mean , the one's who try and play it off and say - - OH nothing gonna happen to us - -NOT US you know - -THOSE PEOPLE

@jayballer73 We don't know...so no point in any hyperconflagaration about what might woulda,coulda,shoulda happen. For myself, I'm just going to enjoy the amazing roster, and let the NCAA go pound sand.

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 We don't know...so no point in any hyperconflagaration about what might woulda,coulda,shoulda happen. For myself, I'm just going to enjoy the amazing roster, and let the NCAA go pound sand.

OR NOT roflmao

@jayballer73 I'm trying to get you to relax. Let me be the first to say....this Buds for you...lol.

KUSTEVE said:

@jayballer73 I'm trying to get you to relax. Let me be the first to say....this Buds for you...lol.

SinFire MUCH BETTER lol