🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Nuleaf,
Great quiz on the mystery player. But...my recollection of Manning's first year is that he was unquestionably the most talented player on the team, but I wouldn't have said the star.....Kellog and Thompson both had similar scoring averages (I think)?
I remember Brown constantly pushing Danny to be "the man"....that wasn't really his nature. But he sure assumed the position of "the man" his senior year....especially in the NCAA tournament!

HEM,

Thanks for asking Coach that question as it has been on all of our minds based on the comments!
Truehawk....I wouldn't think that Self has a problem with Tharpe putting up 3s as long as they are within his "rules"....later in the shot clock (as you can get a 3 at anytime), open look, in balance, etc. My sense is that most of the time that has been the case (with a few exceptions) but I could be wrong.

I don't think we're going to see a 9-10 man rotation. I think the piecemeal minutes (White, Green, Frankamp, Lucas) will stop at some point.

HEM,
Good points. I posted on another thread that White came in briefly, missed one 3 pointer and then came out. What we don't know is.....did he make mistakes, such as losing his man, out of position on offense or D, etc. You've made the point before that some are allowed to play through their mistakes, others are not. Mason has made plays, but he has certainly made his share of mistakes. Would White (or Greene or Frankamp) make plays if they were allowed to play through their mistakes?
Self seems to prefer Tharpe and Mason playing together when Wiggins and / or Selden comes out.
What we don't know is what goes on at practice.

Drgn,
I hear what you are saying about Lucas, but whose playing time does he take? Black? Traylor?. I think he did an admirable job while he was in, but I'm not sure that he would out perform the other 2 with more minutes. What we don't know is what goes on in practice.
I could say the same thing in the ongoing debate about the playing time of White/ Greene/ Frankamp....we don't know what goes on at practice.

I thought we started the game out with good energy, but then slacked off. Our defense, I think, is starting to come around. White was in for a few minutes, missed a 3 pointer, and then came out. What we don't know, in these instances, are did he do something else that warranted not playing much.....miss and assignment, lose his man?
Self seems to prefer Tharpe and Mason in at the same time when Selden or Wiggins takes a break.
It was good to see Selden be more aggressive.....but 6 turnovers? Yikes.This team will get better, but outside shooting will be a weakness if White , Frankamp, or Greene does not play more.

My summary is that we showed our youth. In the first half, we reacted to their half court pressure horribly. It does beg the question if our coaching staff could have reacted to it sooner. Selden was a non-factor. I agree with HEM in that I expected him to be as aggressive as Mason. Frank was great and was the only reason we had a chance at the end. I wish he would have driven the ball on that last play, though. The Villanova kid made a contested three.....what can you do? Except not put yourself in that position in the first place.
Also agree that we would be a lot better off if one of the shooters would be playing more. Mason's play has made it more difficult for Self to justify that, however.
As the season progresses, I don't think Villanova will prove to be that good of a team.
I expected a loss (or 2) like this with this young team.
We'll see how they respond.

I didn't get to see the game and had to track it on ESPN game tracker. I got really nervous when they cut it to 4.
I'm really interested to hear the comments of those that watched the game.
It looks like we couldn't stop the McIntire kid. We evidently didn't play very good defense in the 2nd half.

Ralster,

Wow. I had never heard exactly what they chanted about TRob.
I'm speechless. How can anyone do that? (Even a college kid?).

We continue to move along the pay per view spectrum....and not in the direction we would like. The last 2 years I have sucked it up and paid for the Full Ct. Pkg so I can see the Jayhawk TV and ESPN3 games (as an out of stater). I don't yet know if I get Axis or not....probably not.
As for Lucas......he seems like a developmental guy to me. Role player and maybe starter or 1st off the bench by the time he is a Senior. Hopefully, better than that... we shall see.

Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I think we will stumble at some point in the early going.....one of the road games or maybe in KC.
KState looks like they are really going to struggle... not good for Weber.
The top of the B12 continues to look tough. OU played well against MSU. We've seen what the Clones can do and OSU is as expected. Baylor will be Baylor......talented enough to impress in some games, but overall inconsistent and not a threat in the B12 race.

HEM,
I like how you laid out what you thought should be the decision points without necessarily saying who the winners would be.
One thing that could tighten the rotation is if Self continues to play Mason and Tharpe at the same time like we've seen lately. With significantly more time than 40 minutes between the 2 of them, White (or Greene's) minutes will go down.
After your sure 6, I think we will see White and then some combination of Black / Traylor. That makes 9 with 1 or more of those not getting a whole lot of minutes.
As you have said, this is consistent with Self's MO in the past.

You know, when we play well, like we did in the first half, it seems that year after year Self's teams look the same.....and I mean that as an extreme compliment. We force furnovers and dunk the ball....it could be Tyshawn, EJ, Mario, Wiggins, or Selden. Or just fastbreak layups. We get several lobs.....it might be Rush, Wright, TRob, Embiid, or Wiggins.
The first half of last night's game reminded me of so many others we have witnessed...especially many of the games in AFH.
Just seeing the improvement that we have made, as demonstrated in the first half, gets me even more excited about the potential of this team.

A couple of things about ISU:
1. The Weatherwax incident was unbelievable. I can't think of anything that an opposing coach could do (and Self didn't do anything) that would make me try to go down on the court and confront him. Shameful for anyone....especially a middle aged man.
2. Ames will be a very tough game this year. Ejim will be 1st ream all Big 12 and Niang is very good also. They have done a nice job of filling in the spots vacated by graduation....Kane is very good. I never heard of Hogue or Long but they look pretty good also. Their backup point guard, Morris, was player of the year in the state of Michigan.

Was I mistaken, or did we move the ball like seasoned vets on the first possession of the game and then we regressed?
It's no surprise whatsoever that Perry is the go to guy.
Embiid reminded me of a young Hakeem....who was pretty raw when he started out.
The Defense was pretty bad......you have to believe that we will improve a lot the season moves along. When you combine the great attitudes that Selden and Wiggins have combined with HCBS's track record.....no question it will get a lot better.
I am also surprised at how few minutes White is getting. The fact that Self is playing Mason and Tharpe at the same time is cutting in to his minutes. If that combo continues, neither White nor Greene will see that much action.

UNC was severely hampered without Hariston and McDonald. Think of us playing, in any recent years, missing 2 of our best players. You would think they still should have beaten Belmont, though.

Iowa,
I hope you are right about the Releford comment, but he did not come in as highly regarded as Travis. Travis became one of our main guys....I hope Lucas can do that but I see him being a complementary or role player as a junior or senior.

Drgn,
Thanks for posting. Those are very funny. I, also, feel for the Illini fans. The hat picking is one thing.... the fakeout takes it to another level.
That said, if it had gone the other way I wouldn't have felt the venom that those guys did.
Does anyone remember the "Hilter reacts to Frank Haith hiring"?
Now that was one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

That's the guy. Melvin. Dweeb is a good description. D.B. would be another.

Wow. The Clones upset Michigan. Hilton Magic is tough. No sightings of Weatherwax storming the court to threaten anyone. Upper division of B12 is once again tough.

I would think that if Lyle wants to come....Self would take him. He said, I believe, he would like to sign at least 3. The chances are that at least one of either Embiid or Selden leaves. Granted, if it is Embiid and not Selden, we would be heavy with wing players.

While none of us really want to see anyone transfer, Self will recruit the best players he can get even if he means he might lose someone to transfer. I don't think coaches worry about such things.....they know it will work out one way or another. If someone that they recruited to be a major contributor transfers because of playing time, it means the coach has better alternatives and he is alright with that.
As it relates to Turner / Vaughn, if they wait until the spring, they /we will have a pretty good idea if Embiid and / or Selden will be gone. We / they won't know for sure, but certainly it will be clearer than it is now. I think Traylor was a Division I player....he was recruited by several schools. He has high Division I athletic ability.....his basketball skills just needed developing. Several schools saw that.

HEM and Blown,
I don't like Donovan. I've always felt he was a little slimy. Although I haven't heard anything lately, in the past some coaches have thought he operated a little too much in the gray areas in recruiting.
I would add Shaka Smart to that list. He and Stevens would me my top candidates.
I know that there is always the possibility that Self could leave, but why do people say they feel that it will be in the next couple of years?
Is that only based on Popovich's timeline?

Should have said "lose"...must be past my bedtime.

This is perfect. We replace Wiggins and Black with Oubre and Alexander. If we loose Embiid and / or Selden we have a chance at Turner and Vaughn. Even if we loose 2 more and don't get either one of the other guys, we will still have a lot of talent for next year.
I always find it interesting how so many people believe that they know what is going to happen with these recruits. It's one thing to say what you think might happen.....others state it as fact.

Not questioning that the foul shooting was bad....it was horrible. I'm only saying when you add in the points we scored off of missed FTs, that it didn't cost us as much as you think...Sorry I brought it up.

I always wonder if Julian would have done better had he stayed longer. The question being.....are you better off practicing with the pros and sitting on the bench or playing a lot in college.
Probably, whatever holes in his game (shooting?) would not have gotten better since he has had plenty of time to try to make it in the league.
It's just hard to believe that a guy with his talents couldn't do something in the NBA (even though everyone is talented once you reach that level).

Konkey,

On the subject of FTs, I don't want to belabor the point (yes, I already have), but the argument on the Syracuse game was that with the put backs, or extra possessions (which we wouldn't have had without missed free throws), when added to the FT we did make, add up to not such a bad FT %. I'm sorry that I can't remember the %, but this point was made in a LJW article not all that long ago.
Your last point suggested that if we did not make all 30 we loose the game.........fair enough, but not practical. So, yes a better overall % would have won the game, but due to the points that we made off of missed FTs, our actual % was not that bad.

Yes, Selden missing all those fee throws is not good. Hopefully that will improve soon as he is a good shooter.
You have to think that Duke is the favorite based on each team's first games. As HEM pointed out, they are not that much "older" than us. However, they seems to have more guys that have contributed more in the past. Hood adds a lot to that team.....I think he's great.

KU,
That was my concern in a post on another article. Yes, Self is a great coach and will be able to adjust, but I fear it will take away some of the effectiveness of his tough, physical defense.

HEM and Global,
I know what you are saying. Given the way he had played, especially, it made no sense. I think where that sentiment is coming from is the "dance with who brung ya" philosophy.
As for me.....the last play should never have had to be made. The previous mistakes by EJ (and others!) caused the loss long before the last play.

Konkey,
If you miss a free throw, but get a 2 pt stickback, it is the same as making both free throws.

drgn,

I was there too. I remember thinking, and I read an article not that long ago, that the FTs did not cost us as much as everyone thinks. There were several instances where we rebounded misses and got 2 points. I don't remember the stats, but these put backs negated the missed free to a large extent.
As to this years team.....Perry, Tharpe will be good. Selden and Wiggins will need to be good as much as the ball will be in their hands. After that it gets murky. White....needs to be good but unproven. Traylor....improving and shouldn't be at the line a lot. Black's history suggests he may have problems and Embiid has not been good so far. Both of these guys could be a problem in that regard.

As to the comment earlier about what other team plays the same style....I would say definitely Michigan State. Izzo and Self both preach tough hard-nosed D and toughness in general.
Given the new foul interpretation, I have been looking to see who is making free throws....could be important early in the season. We should be in decent shape there...I don't recall what Wayne did in the PSU game, but hopefully he will be a good foul shooter.
Leads me to a concern I have had.
Does anyone think that the change in the calling of fouls will hurt us more than other teams given Self's style of play?
Yes, I think he is a great coach and capable of adjusting....but will it reduce the effectiveness of his style of play?

Since Alexander cut MSU, I'm feeling even better about our chances. It makes sense too......he replaces Black. Okafor could be waiting to see if Embiid goes or stays......or maybe he commits whether he knows or not. Either way, it's great to hear his Dad's comments. I haven't heard much about Lyle and the package with Alexander. Sounds like he might be favoring Indiana at this point.

Wow. Great discussion. I always end up getting in on these discussions late since I can't post on this site at work.
I agree with Wisox about filling up the roster because you have openings. I would also favor saving scholarships for the next year. The OAD is a complicated issues that no coach wants to have to deal with but they all have no choice. Those who have said that Self (or anyone else for that matter) could choose not to recruit OADs have an argument. But realistically, if you are competitive and driven, and you know that good players win games, then you will recruit the best players you can even if they are OAD. Coaches that don't have OADs on their roster haven't turned any of them down. They have either not even tried because they know it is futile, or they have not been able to get any to agree to play for their school.

They are only televising the regular season games.

tundra,
I travel to Ontario frequently, and most people seem to know who Andrew is in varying degrees.
I also noted that after the Pitt St. game, TSN had a blurb that crawled across the screen...."Kansas F Andrew Wiggins scores 16 pts. in exhibition win vs. Pittsburg State"
Hopefully, this means I can watch our games from my hotel room instead of going to a sports bar.

It never made sense to me that Kentucky was voted pre-season number 1. Michigan State or Louisville, with their returning talent, were to me way more likely to be the best teams in the nation at the start of the season. Clearly there was consideration given to Kentucky's potential for challenging for a NC. Yes.....we were given some of that same "potential" credit, but we have a better chance of living up to that pre-season ranking at the start of the season than Kentucky does.

I think Alexander comes to KU. Reasons? Coach Howard, Coach Self's system that goes through the big men, his girlfriend, and Coach Self's ability to make people (like Alexander's mother) comfortable with him. It just seems to add up.

All good points, and I have the same concerns regarding redshirt / transfers. I don't think Self worries about over recruiting. He gets the best players that he can get. Of course, he would prefer that guys stick around (in most cases). He once said that he doesn't worry about playing time....that takes care of itself.
Certainly landing Wiggins made the redshirt / transfer concerns more of an issue. Self. or most any coach is not going to turn down a talented kid (even one way less talented than Wiggins) if it improves the talent level of the team.......even if it creates playing / transfer issues.
I think we as fans worry about it more than the coaches do.

I am very confident in Tharpe based on what I saw late in the season. He showed great improvement in running the team. HEM makes good points in this regard. I thought he also showed the ability to get to the paint...although his size does hurt him in that respect sometimes once he gets there. He also showed the ability, though somewhat inconsistent, to hit the open 3. There were times toward the end of the year, where like others, I felt more comfortable with him than EJ. I wouldn't have gone so far as to say he should have been in at the end of the Michigan game ((that is totally after the fact 2nd guessing) because I am a believer that you have to go with the guys that have gotten you there (EJ)

I just read one of Bedore's post that says you can potentially have the LJW verify who you are via telephone and then you can post on the LJW site. I might try THAT......

I hope I am wrong, but I don't see Embiid here past this year. The NBA drafts so much on potential that he can have mediocre numbers and still be a lottery (or near lottery) pick. I know the conventional wisdom says they should go if they are guaranteed to be a high pick, but it begs the question do they develop better on the bench and practicing in the NBA or staying for another year in college. You always wonder if Julian Wright would have fared better if he stayed longer.

I understand that Bedore has to toe the company line. I don't agree with his, (or anyone else's) statement that it is not intrusive to open a facebook account with the bare minimum of information and your privacy is protected. I don't want anything about me, including my name, to be out there anymore than it already is (and I know it is). I'm not worried about the NSA as some have mentioned. They are going to do what they do and those limits will be hashed out in political circles. I just don't like the lack of privacy associated with facebook.

I think Michigan State will when based on experience. Even though they sometimes underperform early in the year, I think they will be really good and will be Kentucky's young guys so early in the year. There appears to be no consensus about who will replace Nix, but the other 4 are really good.

I have had the Duke game on my calendar since the event was originally scheduled. Even reserved a hotel room. I now have work requirements which will not allow me to attend.
So......dtd and Kirk....and everyone else, please cheer extra loud for those of us that will be there in spirit only.

I think Self feels that he knows what went right and wrong without watching the tape.....maybe so.
White, Traylor....experience always counts with Self, maybe more than other coaches. I also am excited to see what White can do.

Right. Traylor and Lucas are great to have on the team.....as long as they are role players....that doesn't mean they can't get significant minutes (probably not together) as they continue to gain experience. Role players can play significant minutes....we just need some "go to" guys on the floor with them.
The statement in the article about the 4 guard set made no sense. We won't have any lineup on the floor (for long at least) that doesn't include Perry (which the article acknowledged)

lighthawk,
Very funny!
I think there is a good chance that we get Okafor and Alexander. The uncertainty regarding Embiid leaving or not could, I guess, influence Okafor. However, we don't know, unless someone has heard, how those 2 feel about playing together. They may feel that if Embiid stays, Perry stays, that makes 4 bigs if they both commit. Would be great for us.....they might not think so.

Dylans,

I agree that next years class is a delicate balancing act. If you have any potential, but not certain OADs like we have, it becomes just that. I would find it fascinating to know how coaches handle this. You can sometimes get snippets when the player makes statements (i.e. Oubre). I have to believe that Self is pretty up front (while still "selling") with the recruits. It sounds like he would gladly take 2 more (in addition to Oubre) if not 3, figuring that at least 1, and maybe both of Selden and Embiid will be gone. Turner appears to be waiting to see what happens with Embiid (as well as the players at the other schools he is considering).