🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@HighEliteMajor I also really like Dykes. I like the analysis that Knight provides, but I don't really care for his "delivery".

@RockChalkinTexas I like Franschilla. I think he calls them as he sees them. As far as our Jayhawks.....he says a lot of complementary things and points out some things that maybe we don't want to hear....but are true.

@drgnslayr I like your thinking, but I don't see it happening. The odds are that Turner envisions himself OAD (or at least that potential) and that he is not going to want to share the post with Embiid. Obviously I can't pretend to know what the young man is thinking, though.

@AsadZ I hear what you are saying. I think there is, to an extent a double standard. Self has sat Wiggins before, though, when other combinations are working better.

@truehawk93 I believe that Clark had 30 against Michigan State.

@REHawk
Jeez, just think how bad it will be if we lose tonight?

@REHawk
I agree with your comments on the posters on the other site....9 and 9?
Come on!

@HighEliteMajor
I think you could see that starting lineup. My sense, though, is that Wayne is outplaying other people in practice.....he just hasn't shown it in the games. Wayne has all the tools.....I'm sure Self believes that he will put it together soon. In the meantime, Mason can get plenty of playing time off the bench if warranted.
Must be the same thing with Black and Traylor outplaying Lucas in practice.

@JayHawkFanToo
I agree with you analysis of which games we win for the most part, however, I am concerned about some of the early home games given that this team may need some more time (we'll see) to "gel". Tonight's game is extremely important as I see it as a swing game for us, and potentially our challengers.
I do think, though, that 5 losses might win the conference. Outside chance that 6 losses might do it.

@Hawk8086
meant to say... as was your question.....

@HighEliteMajor
HEM. Great question, as was your questions about the rotation earlier in the year. Keep it up and thank for sharing!

@justanotherfan
Your logic is sound....and I hope you are right. I am worried about the front loaded schedule getting to us.

@MoonwalkMafia
I agree with you and HEM, in general, that it makes sense to give either White or Greene significant minutes by trimming back others by a few each. Seems like there would be no harm. But what we don't see is practice and Self mentioned this. Based on practice, those guys aren't ready to be in a game like the one we just played. (He may not have included White in that comment...can't remember)There is a reason he is saying that. Presumably, Selden (and Mason....hence the Tharpe/ Mason combination) are out playing those guys in practice. It is frustrating, but Self's track record is why many people say in Self we trust. I have to go with that until he is proven otherwise over a long season.

I think we have more than 4 conference losses. Although I am one of those who has confidence that Self will have this team where we all expect later in the year (not sure when that will be) I don't see us winning in Ames next Monday. I think the front loaded schedule may give us more losses than we would like.
I'm thinking 5 losses. Six maybe, which would be a small disappointment. Both of those, I think, are possibilities. More than 6 starts to become a big disappointment.
5 losses, I think, gives us a decent shot at winning the Big 12.....possibly another shared title.

As others have said, no question that the early blocks affected our shooting later in the game.....you could see it in some of the later missed "bunnies". I think what we are seeing, in some respects, are things that we have seen before with Self's teams....other respects maybe not. Some young players take longer to "get it" under Self than under other coaches. With Selden...everyone says he is thinking and not just playing.....a common theme that we have seen before. Watching Selden in the McD's game.....I saw a guy with a lot of court vision......we have only seen glimpses of that so far. Also, AW3 and Greene being frustrated......reminds me of Russell Robinson. Young players seem to think too much and take longer to play freely under Self. For some it never comes in the first year....evidently Greene is going to be in that category. Selden.....yes, somewhat. AW3.... a little more disturbing since he is in his second year.
With so many young guys, these things are magnified.

I'm not sure how much ability Self or Zenger has to change a schedule.....obviously the more in advance the better. Some of these games were decided upon before we knew what our team was going to look like. Was SDSU, for instance, scheduled a couple of years ago? We agreed to the Bahamas trip before we knew what our team would look like or what the competition would look like. Did we have a choice playing Florida? Was there B12 /SEC/ESPN ramifications bigger than one program? Would it have looked bad, if for instance, we asked to defer the Colorado game for one year? Yes....I understand, we have known for more than a year that we were going to be young this year.

I see no reason why we can't win the Big 12. Now....I think the chances that we do....whatever they were....in my mind greater than 50/50 vs. the field before the season started....... are now less than that. Not only based on last night's game, but the fact that we are not where anyone (especially Self) thought we would be at this point. It does help that OSU lost Cobbins and lost to KSU. Baylor could, but they have Drew. ISU....maybe the favorite as we sit here now. I see a greater chance that we lose a game at home than they do.
I would like our chances better if our schedule was more favorable. In the first half of the season, we play the other 3 contenders at home and 2 of them on the road. Arguably our 3 toughest home games and 2 of the toughest road games in the first 9 games. In theory, this would be the year that we show the most improvement in the latter part of the season, so I would rather have a more "balanced" schedule in that regard.
Is KSU now a credible threat? Based on recent (and last year's) performance?

Wow, if you read the comments on the LJW site....the sky is falling.
SDSU can really guard, but by them doubling the post every time, we had open shots. I thought a fair number of the shots that we missed were actually good shots.....certainly good enough to win with no problem if we make those.
The problem is.....you aren't always going to make those shots. That's where the rebounding and toughness come in to play. Tharpe, Ellis, and Wiggins took most of the missed shots. If anything, I would like for Selden to take more shots.....in the lane and from 3.
As the game went on, the continued debate about AW3 or Greene having a chance to see what they could do just screamed out at you. The way the defense sagged, you knew that there would be plenty of open 3 looks.
I think Self would say that we settled for 3s way to early in the shot clock on several occasions.
Clearly, Gottleib thinks that Tharpe is part of the problem with his continuous "without a true PG" comments. Although Mason forced the issue too much early on, ultimately he made several plays which helped to fuel our being in the game at the end.
This game does make you think that maybe we should revise our expectations for this team down slightly, but some of the comments on the LJW site are ridiculous.
Could we lose a conference game or two that you might not have expected going in to the season? Sure. But, it's hard to believe that with this talent and with Self's track record that this team won't perform to the expected level by later in the season.

If this game were played on a neutral court, I'd be very worried at this point in the season. I see a close game with the magic of the Phog allowing us to pull one out.

Yes. Conference road games will be tough...tougher than usual for us with a young team. KSU apparently helped us yesterday. Of course, our theory going in to the game was that OSU is more of a threat to our streak than KSU is. My philosophy is that if 2 opponents are equal threats to win the conference, you root for the home team. Otherwise, the road winner has a leg up on us.
Based on recent play, and on last year's results, is KSU now as much of a threat to win the conference as everyone else? We'll see if they can win on the road.

@Crimsonorblue22
Wow. I never thought of Selden as slow footed. I think he is still trying to figure things out. I'll watch more carefully now that you brought it up.

Several of us commented on this issue in another thread. Would love to have Turner and put him in the rotation with Ellis and Alexander at the 4/5. The problem is there are 80 mins of PT at the 4/5. Split evenly that's approx. 26 mins. each. In competitive games, Ellis plays at least 35 mins. barring foul trouble (or a Georgetown "hard foul"). That leaves 22 1/2 mins each for Alexander and Turner if split evenly. While on paper that sounds good to us, 2 guys that are rated among the top big guys and both (I imagine) believe that they are OAD candidates may likely not be happy with that possibility. Turner MAY be waiting on Embiid's status, but he also may only come if Perry leaves (which most of us seem to think is not likely......or at least we hope so).
So I'm in the camp that says we only get Turner if Perry leaves also.
I hope I'm wrong.
Interesting comments by Self on Embiid....I think he was just covering all of the bases though. I don't think that changes, at least not yet, the chances that Embiid stays....which are slim, at best.
As others noted........Vaughn or Lyle are probably only possibilities if Selden leaves.....and I hope he doesn't.
At least it's good to (apparently) have options if multiple guys make the jump.

Well, there is some logic (HEM and Joe) for Turner not coming. But I hope that you are wrong and Self can, in theory, convince him that a 3 man rotation gets adequate PT for all. Tough to do though......unless Perry plays some 3......which we debated a couple of days ago. So....logic says you guys are right.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Clark at OSU. If 2nd offense.....could be out for a while. I don't get why some of these guys can't stay away from the stuff (10 AM? really?) when they have so much to lose......but I'm so far from 20 years old I forget what it is like.

@melrank
EJ regressed because he was a 2 guard forced into playing the point. He was our best, most experienced option. Casused by PG recruiting whiffs. Naa wasn't ready. I don't subscribe to the belief, as some have suggested, that Self should have played Naa down the stretch instead. Go with the one that got you to the dance.
Both Brady and Reed going whatever - for 20 something in the VCU game was extremely disappointing, but as you say, that's what happens when you lose. The bigger picture is that Self's teams have a history of tightening up, more than others, in the big dance. The NC and 2012 runner up makes up for all of the disappointments...in my opinion.

Agreed. You'll notice that Tharpe and Mason played at the same time last night. Further proof that Self didn't trust Greene, or anyone else with minutes down the stretch.

No question that our overall defense, lack of steals, and turnovers is a significant issue. Good points, though, on the degree of difficulty on some of their shots. It seemed like they threw up around 5 or 6 shots that I though had no chance of going in....but they did.
They are a pretty good team, I think. I, for one, probably under-rated them based on their schedule.

Toledo is 12-0 but they haven't beaten anyone. A lot of those wins have been close against teams that aren't that good. I suppose they could give us trouble by hitting 3s and getting to the foul line, but if we play reasonably well, this game should not be close. You have to respect their mind set that they think they can come in and win. I don't think their fans are counting on it though.....

@bigtexjayhawk
Ok, bigtex, I'll bite.
What are you basing this on?

Thanks.

@VailHawk Wear the KU shirt with pride!

I think we have a good chance of winning all of our conference games at Allen.
As WRW says above, OU, ISU, Baylor, ISU, and now it looks like Texas are road games that are potential loses. We could certainly win 1 or 2 or those and slip u somewhere else. I say 14-4 is reasonable with 13-5 a distinct possibility. I'm hoping for 15-3 though as our young team continues to mature. It is a tough start with OU and ISU on the road and Baylor and OSU at home right off the bat.

JB,
Agree that if Selden continues to play the way he has, it is unlikely he will leave.
However, all it takes is a few games at the end of the season of playing to another level to potentially vault him into the lottery, or at least close.

While none of us expect Black to have many games like this, hopefully, it signals the beginning of him at least contributing the way most of us had hoped.Something like 10 and 7 with good defense works for me.

I don't think Perry can guard adequately at the 3. He can create his shot in the lane and around the basket. I don't know if he can create his own shot at the 3. Plus, I agree that trying to do so would send someone to the bench....probably Selden or Wiggins, so we would not be able to play him there for long.

I can't say about Lyle, but if Vaughn is willing to come here....Self will welcome him with open arms.

As mentioned above, the conventional wisdom is that if you are a sure lottery pick you need to go. Guarantee to be picked later in the first round is not quite so clear cut. Some guys might not get better by staying. Wayne, if not guaranteed to go in the lottery, would be one that, I believe, would get better and should probably stay.
Whether he goes or stays could be determined by only a few games, say, in the NCAA tournament. Way too early to tell. If I had to place a bet right now, I would say he stays. 1) The draft is very deep this year. 2)With so much balance on our team, and with Perry, Andrew, and Joel being the go-to guys, Wayne may not stand out at the end of the season the way he might on another team. I would say Greene and Oubre start on the wing next year if Wayne leaves.

I thought Lyle looked pretty athletic. The other night. I have to believe that he only ends up in Lawrence if Selden leaves

Fellow Jayhawks,

I am coming in from out of town for the Georgetown game and I am really pumped!
I haven't been to a game in 2 years. AFH is a truly special place. 3 years ago I went to the Michigan game and hadn't been to a game in many, many years. It didn't exactly bring tears to my eyes to be there, but it came close.
I have GA seats.
Question: How early do I need to get to Allen to get a decent GA seat (decent view, not too high up)?
Any advice would be welcome.

We have nothing to gain and everything to lose by playing WSU. If we win....we're supposed to. If we lose.....wow.(Remember....they put the score of the 1981 game on a billboard...or something like that).
They, on the other hand, have everything to gain. Not to mention the economic benefit of playing us.
I don't like Marshall calling us out. It really is like someone knocking a block off of someone else's shoulder or drawing a line and daring someone to cross it.

I would not trade the conference championships for one NC. The conference championships stand for dominance in the league and consistent national prominence year after year.
HEM, no question that without the 2008 NC (and to a lesser extent the 2012 runner up) we would look at things a lot differently. We have had way more than our share of early outs in the tournament. Without those 2 accomplishments, we would look at Self's accomplishments in the regular season a lot differently.

dtd,
I agree that figuring out the rotation will help...for sure.
I'm not sure that those combinations are completely settled, though....Hope so.

Also, Traylor being able to hit free throws makes him way more valuable. With his energy and athleticism, he has the ability to contribute by getting to the line and scoring valuable points off of the bench.

I also was surprised and pleased to see what Lucas did in his minutes. Grabbed every board that was in his vicinity. Didn't make mistakes (that I saw), didn't foul. I had been in the camp that he would not be a contributor for awhile....looks like that might be wrong. However, it is hard to draw conclusions from one game. I still like Traylor off the bench before Lucas, because he (and I can't believe I'm saying this) is more of an offsensive threat. He is way more aggressive....Lucas didn't even look to shoot. That doesn't mean he can't contribute, though, for sure.
Before reading Self's comments, I was curious about what he would say as to Mason's 6 mins. of playing time. While I like what Mason has done so far, we need Tharpe to continue to earn most of the PG minutes as he did last night. I don't like to see Mason and Tharpe play so many minutes together. We need Greene to earn more minutes (3 pt shooting, big guard) and Selden to play well enough to earn 30 mins. or so. That leaves Mason as energy, tough D, penetration, etc. off the bench as backup PG and some minutes alongside Tharpe. If everyone else does what we all think they need to do, Mason probably does not play 25 minutes.
Clearly we are a different team with Embiid in the lineup.

I agree that starting Tharpe is the right move. I asked for that in an earlier thread. We need a leader and it is easier to do that as a starter than a sixth man, in my opinion. Mason can still get all of the minutes that Self thinks he deserves off the bench. While Mason has made more plays...both have made their share of mistakes....just like almost everyone else.

Perry only took a few shots in the Florida game. Sometimes hard to tell whether it is due to the guards not getting it to him or Perry not working to get in position.
Based on Perry sitting so much in the 2nd half, it would appear that Drgn's point about Perry not getting position is likely a big part of the reason that he didn't get many looks. Otherwise, he would have played more down the stretch.

I think that Tharpe can be our leader and I don't think he should be coming off of the bench. It is possible to lead when coming off the bench, but I think it is better to be a starter. Mason can still get all of the minutes that Self thinks he deserves coming off of the bench. Mason has done some things that Tharpe hasn't, but he has also made his share of mistakes.....like just about everyone else.
Drgn, I agree with your sentiment about yanking guys out.
I don't think there is any question that Freshmen play more tentative under Self than most other coaches. Look at Perry all of last year until the Big 12 tournament (about then). The quick hook has to be a contributor here.
I did not understand why Perry played very little toward the end of the game. I know we were coming back and Self leaves the 5 that are making things happen in. But, he is one of our best players (2nd right now?) and he deserves the opportunity (and we need him) to play through a tentative spell (or whatever the problem is). I know, Traylor brought energy.
All of that said, I have complete confidence that Self will have this team playing great ball later in the season....it is just a matter of when.

A couple of things come to mind.
1. Remember how the 2006 team (with Mario as a freshman and RusRob as an inexperienced sophomore) struggled to get the ball out of the backcourt against Arizona? It was painful to watch. That team's early struggles followed by a 13-3 conference season demonstrate that this team should get a lot better (as we've all been saying).
2. I don't specifically remember how that team played defense early on (or later in the year for that matter). Probably not very good.
3. This team (compared to 2006) has the additional issue of the new foul interpretation to deal with. Could it be, though, that they should be able to adapt as most of them are learning a new system (as well as level of play)? Or is it Self that needs to learn?
4. I'm in favor of mixing in a zone now and then if for no other reason that it gives the other team a new look.But, wouldn't a zone potentially limit the turnovers and breakaway baskets that we are so used to seeing from Self's teams?

Drgn,
No question that we need to attack the basket. We did a much better job in the 2nd half and down the stretch. Mason didn't do it all in the first half...much better in the 2nd.
I don't think our 3 pt shooters have taken bad shots. I think that they are thinking too much. Part of that is they might feel like one mistake and they're gone....probably because that is true.I hope you are not serious with the Lucas for Ellis substitution. I noted that Perry did sit a fair amount through the middle of the game. Traylor, I think was playing most of that time. Didn't make sense to me. Maybe it was because he wasn't doing what Self wanted.

On the 3 pt shooting and the CF/White/Greene issue.......Self has said that no one has separated themselves. The obvious question is, as HEM and many others have pointed out, is why not let them try to do that by letting them play extended minutes, one at a time or something.
What we don't know is if he expects that to happen in practice.
One can surmise that the first one of those 3 off the bench (Greene yesterday) has had the best week of practice.
It has to work its way out, because I don't see Self continuing the 3 minutes each plan.
One thing.....White looks extremely bored every time I see him on the bench. The body language doesn't look great.It concerns me som, but I guess that is to be expected. I attend smaller school Div. 1 games in my area so I can get good seats and guys are clearly not happy about coming out of the game or being on the bench. Part of being a competitor.

Yes, I did like the way Wiggins stepped up down the stretch. I didn't understand that 3 he took (when he got bailed out by the foul). Sure....we tried hard, but they beat us on the offensive boards. Embiid was a non-factor in the 2nd half. I thought that he regressed defensively.....left his feet too often leading to fouls. Selden was invisible for the most part, again.
The 5 that Self seems to trust the most are the 5 that were in the game at the end.
It stings that we lost to a team that shot as poorly as CU did. Offensive rebounds and fouls did us in.

I'm extremely frustrated watching this game. I expected better after a week of practice.
Mason starts and has a bad first half.
I don't understand Self's substitutions.
Why does Ellis sit do long?
Same old same old......2 minute parade with Green, Frankamp, White.
Mason is playing much better in the 2nd half.
CU s offensive rebounds have continued to kill us.
We can't guard without fouling....if CU had been hitting a decent percentage, this game wouldn't be close.
Once again....fouls. Selden fouls Dinwiddie in an important possession.
Great effort by us to tie.
Lucky shot by Booker to win...might have traveled, but our poor play earlier put us in this position.

Yikes indeed. Very funny.
Sure hope that doesn't happen.
However, if both Embiid and Ellis leave...what a great opportunity for Turner.