This bodes well for KU. If I were a betting man, I would bet that Embiid alone is leaving and Myles Turner is headed to KU. If it works out this way, KU will have an even better team next year.
JayHawkFanToo
13427 posts
So sorry about your family's tragedy. As a member of the extended Jayhawk family, please know that you are in our thoughts and prayers. Get some rest.
As per latest bracketology, teams that KU played are ranked as follows
No. 1 seed -1 Florida
No.2 seed - 2 Duke, Villanova
No.3 Seed - 1 ISU (3 games)
No.4 Seed - 1 SDSU
No.6 Seed - 2 New Mexico, Okllahoma (2 games)
No.7 Seed - 2 Baylor (2 games), Texas (2 games)
No.8 Seed- 1 OSU (2 games)
No.9 Seed - 1 KSU (2 games)
No.10 Seed - 1 Colorado
This adds to 19 games against teams going to the NCAA Tournament
Compare to the Wichita Sate Schedule
No.7 Seed - 1 St. Louis.
No.11 Seed - 2 BYU (Last four in group), Tennessee (last four byes group)
This adds to 3 games against teams going to the NCAA Tournament, 2 of them borderline teams that might yet be bounced.
Huge difference, wouldn't you agree?
Number can be use in many ways and perhaps we need to add some context to yours.
The new contact rules have increased scoring has been more pronounced in the big conferences with better players that take advantage of the new rule. The overall increase is about 6 points overall, and likely larger in the top conferences
KU is playing in the strongest conference and the competition is better day in and day out andit is expected that score would go higher.
KU has played the toughest non-conference schedule in 20 years, it is only natural that the stronger opposition would score more points.
If you look at the overall conference defensive scoring ranking, KU is #6 and when you look at the conference only games KU goes to #5. The scoring defense has gone up for conference play for all conference when compared to the non-conference schedule; KU's has stayed about the same Please note that the #1 team is Texas Tech, whose slow tempo game obviously results in lower scoring games and it is only just over 2 point better than KU. Now, the difference between #5 KU and #2 KSU is 0.8 points or a total of about 14 points over the 18 game conference schedule.
If you look at the defense shooting percentage ranking, KU is #3 in the conference; however if you compare the shooting percent defense against last year's numbers you will see that the percentage has gone up for every team in the conference, no doubt a result of the rules and playing a strong conference.
KU is #1 in scoring and scoring differential and it is almost 6 points better than second place Oklahoma. The scoring differential for KU is better this year than last year.
As I indicated at the beginning of the season, the statistics for this year should have an asterisk next to them as it would not be fair to compare them against previous years.
Teams like KU that played tough man to man defense were penalized more so than other teams, as they had to learn to play a softer, less "lock down" defense. As I mentioned before, lock down defenders like Releford, rush, RussRob and Mario, playing with same intensity would have fouled out in the first half under the current rules; charging fouls are hardy ever called.
No question that the defense is not as good as what we expect from Self Coached teams, but when you look in context and compare it to other conference teams, it is not that bad either; perhaps inconsistent is the best way to describe this year's edition.
I am not saying that your conclusions are wrong and mine are right or the other way around; they are just different opinions viewed from different perspectives that presents facts in different lights and the concussions are not wildly different but somewhat different.
I can see your points, maybe you can see mine as well.
I posted this in a different thread but this one seems more appropriate.
A few scattered thoughts about yesterday's game.
The offense played reasonably well. If you score 83 points, there is a good chance you will win.
The defense was out of sync with no weak side help resulting in many uncontested baskets; Coach Self will fix that.
The technical on the Mayor turned the game around. After that call, all the calls started going to ISU; I wish Coach Self would gotten a "T" to get the refs back to normal.
The defense allowed too many open shots; however, when the other team shoots close to 60% from the 3, your options are limited; if you play tight a foul is called, if you try to contest the shot, it probably ends up in afoul as well. This is one of those games for ISU that Fraschilla calls playing "out of their minds" and can do no wrong. Also, when two good teams play 3 games in a season, it is very, very hard to get a sweep.
This was game of runs and KU ran out of time to put together one last run. Oh well.
On a good note, with all the upsets happening this weekend Lunardi still has KU as #2 seed; before all is said and one, it might end up a #3 seed, but either is not too bad.
How spoiled of a fan base are we? At this time of the year, fans from most other programs worry if their teams will make it to the dance in the first place; we, on the other hand, complain loudly about KU not trying hard, playing poorly.......you name it. In the mean time, the teams will quietly secure a high seed like it does year after year. We should be so happy to have the team we have and count our blessings we live in Kansas, the only state with at least 3 Division 3 teams that will send all 3 teams to the dance for the third year in a row. We could live one state East and have only the non-state school (St. Louis) going to the dance and the flagship university and former rival headed to the NIT. Something to ponder.
P.S. Am I the only one that find Brent Hamburger the most annoying announcer on TV? Why do we have to get stuck with him?
A few scattered thoughts about yesterday's game.
The offense played reasonably well. If you score 83 points, there is a good chance you will win.
The defense was out of sync with no weak side help resulting in many uncontested baskets; Coach Self will fix that.
The technical on the Mayor turned the game around. After that call, all the calls started going to ISU; I wish Coach Self would have gotten a "T" to get the refs back to normal.
The defense allowed too many open shots; however, when the other team shoots close to 60% from the 3, your options are limited; if you play tight a foul is called, if you try to contest the shot, it probably ends up in a foul as well. This is one of those games for ISU that Fraschilla calls playing "out of their minds" and can do no wrong. Also, when two good teams play 3 games in a season, it is very, very hard to get a sweep.
This was game of runs and KU ran out of time to put together one last run. Oh well.
On a good note, with all the upsets happening this weekend Lunardi still has KU as #2 seed; before all is said and one, it might end up a #3 seed, but either is not too bad.
How spoiled of a fan base are we? At this time of the year, fans from most other programs worry if their teams will make it to the dance in the first place; we, on the other hand, complain loudly about KU not trying hard, playing poorly.......you name it. In the mean time, the teams will quietly secure a high seed like it does year after year. We should be so happy to have the team we have and count our blessings we live in Kansas, the only state with at least 3 Division 3 teams that will send all 3 teams to the dance for the third year in a row. We could live one state East and have only the non-state school (St. Louis) going to the dance and the flagship university and former rival headed to the NIT. Something to ponder.
I wonder if Coach Self will try Wesley on Niang. Justin is an athletic big that could give Niang problems.
I agree. Perry had a great game against ISU last year at the Tournament. He played 28 minutes, went 10-12 for 23 points and 6 rebounds to lead the team.
This year he had a flat first game and a very good second game against ISU when he went 8-12 for 20 points, 6 rebounds, 1 steal and 2 blocks; BTW, Wiggins had 29 points in that game.
..and Nadir, Nadar.
Didn't Brent "Hamburger" called her the "smoking hot" Holly Rowe at one KU BBall game?...and of all times, a few days after getting in trouble for slobbering over shots of AJ McCarron's girl friend and mom. I am sure he has been to cut it out as he looks even more foolish and creepy than usual.
Kevin was a very opportunistic rebounder and has him beat with the 'fro, :)
He is this year's version of Kevin Young; he plays with so much energy and he seems so nice, that is just impossible not to like him and root for him.
Kietzman is factually incorrect. He claims that:
"Bill Self told ESPN mid morning Monday that he was "100 percent" certain Embiid would play in Kansas City at the Big 12 Tourney or next week in the first round of the NCAA's."
This is what Coach Self actually said:
""I'm optimistic he'll play soon," Self said. "He'll be back. I'm 100 percent optimistic he'll be back. We just don't know yet whether it will be this week or next week. We're not going to put him out there until the doctors say he's ready.""
Coach Self did not even mention the Big 12 Tournament or when in the NCAA, this is just Kietzman putting words in Coach Self's mouth to cover his miss-reporting.
Here is the link to the article by Jeff Goodman in reference to the conversation on Monday March 10, 2014 that Kietzman cited.
Another point that he tries to make:
"Why, if the diagnosis didn't change Monday, did Embiid's playing status change?"
Any one that has seen a doctor and has gotten a second opinion knows that even when doctors agree on the actual cause, they often differ on the course of treatment. To its credit, KU chose not to take chances, selected the more conservative approach and decided to rest Embiid until he is fully healed. As the expression goes,,,there is no there...there. Most of us are smart enough to see through the BS.
Baylor played well for while but almost got caught at the end. Their biggest weakness is Scott Drew; he is our ace in the hole.
Also, the energy he brings is contagious.
Don't forget Jamari, 6 points, 9 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks, 2 turnovers and only 1 foul in 27 minutes. To me he was the most pleasant surprise. I love Lucas potential but he is just not ready for prime time; I keep thinking that in a pinch, Wesley might be a better option, he does have considerably more experience.
I like it. Tharpe on Forte and Wiggins on Smart.
It helps that Barry Sanders is from Kansas, Wichita actually.
OSU dominated Texas Tech and won going away. Forte was hitting 3 pointers from 5 feet behind the line; hopefully he has scored his share and will go on a drought tomorrow. Murphy played only 14 minutes but the rest of the starter played over 30 minutes each, but there were minutes that did not require a lot of effort, nothing that would affect tomorrow's game .
Comparing years of experience for this year's versus last year's team.
Last year:
Withey - Fifth yr. red shirt Sr - 4 years of prior experience
Releford - Fifth yr. red shirt Sr - 4 years of prior experience
Youing - Fifth yr. red shirt Sr - 4 years of prior experience
McLemore- Second yr. red shirt FR - 1 years of prior experience
Johnson - Sr - 3 years of prior experience
Total prior experience - 16 years *
- Aa team with 5 seniors would have 15 years or previous experience
This year:
Tharpe - Jr.. - 2 year of prior experience
Ellis - Soph. - 1 year of prior experience
Wiggins - Fr. - 0 year of prior experience
Embiid- Fr. - 0 year of prior experience
Selden - Fr. - 0 year of prior experience
Total prior experience - 3 years
We do have a very green team, particularly when compared to last year's ubber-experienced team.
Survive and advance - Jim Valvano
A lower seed relieves some pressure because it lowers expectations. The opponents will be marginally better but if KU wants to go all the way they should be able to beat whoever they play anyway. Actually more that seeding the important part is the match-ups. We can actually have a better match-up against a higher ranked team than we would against a lower rankled team with a couple of speed guards that can penetrate
This year KU and WSU are changing roles. WSU is now the high ranked, unbeaten team that everyone will be gunning for and will not sneak up on anybody. KU on the other hand will be viewed as team that has lost a top player and perhaps will be considered wounded and will overlooked.
This could potentially give an edge to KU, as it might get overlook and underestimated while giving the players an incentive to play for "respect." It would be particularly true if KU get a #3 seed or lower.
Ellis had his big coming out party at the Big 12 Tournament last year; I believe he along with Withey made the all tournament team. Maybe March is his time to shine.
Survive and advance - Jim Valvano
Ditto!
" Opinions are just that, opinions, and as such they are not right or wrong. We all have them and hopefully sharing them makes us see other valid points of view. This is what forums are all about."
JayHawkFanToo
Done. You and I have at times different opinions but I believe we both respect each others views.
Do the deed for Embiid!
FOE
Rock Chalk Jayhawk.
No problem DinarHawk. Opinions are just that, opinions, and such they are not right or wrong. We all have them and hopefully sharing them makes us see other valid points of view. This is what forums are all about.
Excellent point about Graves; he played perhaps the best game of his career and without him, the game is not even close.
You make valid points. With Tarik is feast or famine. I was pretty down on him at the beginning of the season but I think he as the potential to have a game like a very similar player, Jef Graves, had in the 2003 finals against Syracuse where at time he single-handedly carried the team.
Kietzman is KSU hack and has zero credibility when it comes to anything related to KU. I quit listening to him a long time ago.
I would say 7.5. If KU loses the next game they will not get a #1 seed and #2 being the most likely and #3 the worst case scenarios. Depending on how the team is playing I say they make it at least to the sweet 16.
If KU wins the Big 12 Tournament (without Embiid), it gets a #1 seed and my ranking goes to 9-9.5 and it makes at least to the Elite 8.
The NCAA RPI, used by the NCAA for seeding, still has KU dropping to #3 behind Arizona and Florida and ahead of Villanova who is #4.
The difference between KU and Villanova is large enough that even if KU loses the next game, it might no be enough to drop below Villanova. Which would make KU probably a #2 seed or worst case a #3 seed. There is no way KU drops lower than #3.
KU's edge is that it played in a super strong conference and had a tough non-conference schedule. The conference is currently projected to send 7 teams to the dance, which would be the highest percentage of any conference since the current format was introduced. ESPN has now all 7 teams as "locks" and none in the bubble:
There is also talk that if West Virginia makes it to the tournament finals (if they win, they are in as the automatic qualifier), they might go dancing as well and the conference would end up sending fully 80% of its teams to the NCAA Tournament. Unprecedented and frigging unbelievable!!!.
If KU wins the Big 12 tournaments without Embiid, it will get #1 seed. If WSU gets a #1 weed by winning the regular and tournaments titels on the super weak MVC. there i no way KU does not get one after playing the toughest schedule in the country in the top ranked conference and sweeping both conference titles, how could it not?
Wellman, a member of the selection committee said:
"I am probably one personally that sides on the award side," Wellman said. "Is it good or is it appropriate to punish a team and the other 11 players on that team because someone is injured? I don't think you completely eliminate the facts that you have in front of you regarding an injury, but I tend to side personally, and I'm not speaking for the committee on this, but personally I would probably side on the award side of it."
Which bodes well for KU. I understand he is only one of ten members, but there are probably other likely minded members as as well.
Now, we have been crowing all season on how deep KU is, particularly the front line. Tarik is "consistently inconsistent" as I often say; however, he has the talent to capably replace Embiid without a dramatic drop in overall performance; we have seem hm do this before. Traylor is an athletic, physical, high energy player that can be the spark plug this team needs. Lucas has done his homework and perfected his technique but at times he has the "dear in the headlines" look and seems lost; I am sure this is largely due to lack of actual game time experience. He needs to realize that it is crunch time and, much like Tarik, he is no longer a role player, but one the team needs to count on. If these three players can put together complete games where they play to the potential they have shown, KU has a real chance.
Maybe this is an opportunity for the entire team to rally around Embiid and win one for him...
LET'S DO THE DEED FOR EMBIID!!!
Looks like a potential t-shirt.
In any case, even if KU loses its first game of the conference tournament, I just cannot imaging falling any lower than 3. IMHO, and barring any big developments, the more likely scenario is a #2 seed.
Agree. I wonder how Withey would fare with the new rules.
@jaybate 1.0
Keep it up Jaybate.
You forget that most if not all of us are adult, college graduates, many of us with graduate and post graduate degrees to booth and can see right through you condescending, patronizing BS and just ignore it.
Sometimes you can be amusing with your war stories but more often than not you talk down to others and seem to have an urge to show how smart you are (or aren't) and how much (or little) you know. The rest of us just want to unwind some and talk sports.
Obviously other posters are smarter and heed the old adage:
"Don't argue with someone that buys ink by the barrel"
Which in the digital era translates to:
"Don't argue with someone with a keyboard, the anonymity of a forum and all the time in the world to produce page after page of non-sense."
When the KC Start Sports Forum (much like the LJW,) changed format and imploded, and at the suggestion of colleagues I joined the LJW Forum and was promptly warned by several posters to not argue with Jaybate. One of the more colorful description said...after you publicly smack him down, he will be like chihuahua in heat and continue humping your leg, until you get tired and ignore him and then he will claim victory. Dang if he was not correct. In retrospect, I should have heeded his advice as my leg feels clammy from all your digital humping.
I participate in 3 other technical forums that are pretty focused and another business owner's forum that I help moderate and can get pretty contentious, luckily in that one we can quickly shut down any discussion that gets too adversarial, plus we have a feature that allows a member to place another one in an "ignore list" and post from the "ignored" member are no longer displayed. I only wish this Forum would have that feature.
I regularly interact with many other forums members and when we don't see eye to eye on issue,w we simply agree to respectfully disagree. With you, its your way or the highway and you always have to have the last word. I though you had indicated after the Adidas thread, that you would not address any post to me any more; I guess you just can's stay away.
By the way, at a recent Chamber of Commerce event in the Kansas City area, the Adidas subject came up in conversation, actually an acquaintance of mine that had read the thread brought it up while we were taking about international trade. After several guests including the CEO of one the larger companies in town read the threads on their cell phones, everybody had a laugh at your expense...thanks Jaybate, you made me look like even smarter.
If you want to continue debating let's not do it from behind the curtain of anonymity, we can both provide our credentials, including names and jobs, and let the other forum members see for themselves who we are; I am willing to post a link to my company's web site where you can see my professional bio.
Until then you can have all the last words you want. I am done with you.
I agree with you 100% but the WVU game was no the way he normally plays. This was a special situation when no one else was doing much scoring and he had the hot hand. Under similar conditions who would prefer takes the shot; the guy with hot hand shooting 66% or the rest of teams shooting 36%? I am not saying that the he should do this all the time, and he doe not, but in this particular game it was the right strategy and almost brought KU back from a 26 point deficit. He obviously had instructions from Coach Self to do just that, and just because he only had 2 assist weighed against 41 points does not mean he did not make the other players or the team better, wouldn't you agree?
In any case, I think this topic has been beaten to death and there are obvious diverging opinions. I guess we just respectfully agree to disagree.
It is not the arms as much as that big body of his that he uses to bump the other players. Unfortunately the previous three years a lot of this contact was not called, and was SOP for big men to play hard defense this way. The new contact rules have affected physical players like Tarik more so than other players and it a been a bonanza for slashing players, since offensive fouls are hardly ever called...plus most refs seem to continue the tradition of calling a foul on Tarik as soon as he enters the court; only half kidding on the last statement.
Good Link, I read a story a while back on how the different sports programs staffs work with nutritionist to come up with highly customized diets for specific athletes based on specific needs. I remember the one Withey was on to gain bulk was extensively discussed. Coach Self has also mentioned it from time to time in his radio show.
Turbo scrolling wheel on a mouse are a wonderful thing.
@jaybate 1.0
Ah Jaybate, you can't stand it when other members calls your BS...well...BS.
Go read your original post a the top of the thread and you will see (although I doubt it) that the entire section on Wiggins is predicated on having had only two assists. Never mind that Wiggins job is to score, rebound and get to the line and NOT produce assists...but then what do we know, if Jaybate says so then It must be so.
I could write more, but I am not willing to waste my time or that of the other posters, and you still would not get it.
"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
Dwight D. Eisenhower
You fit that definition to a tee. I see a three part, 5,000 word response coming up, but thanks to the good folks at Logitech, I have a mouse with a turbo scrolling wheel that allows me to bypass the long winded post with ease, much like many Forum member do. No doubt that with you on the board we get plenty of practice.
Zone defense takes less energy to play than man to man. Everybody knows that.
Agree, KU ran out of timeouts with almost 17 minutes left in the second half. I have never seen so many timeout called in such a short time.
Have you considered that maybe some players come to KU because of the man-to-man defense, since the zone, as played in college basketball is not allowed in the NBA?
Yes, I know that a variation of the zone can be used in the NBA, but with the 3 second limitation, it is not practical and hardly ever used. So a player with future in the NBA would be better served playing for team that plays man-to-man defense such as KU.
The better zones, such as those played by Syracuse, cannot be learned in few days. it takes lots of practice and coaches intimately familiar with it to properly execute it; there is no way KU can switch to one at this stage of the season even if Coach Self wanted. It is not like KU does not play zone; they do practice several zone variations and have at times used, but they are not proficient at it and quickly revert to the man-to-man.
I think the only objective way would be pretty much like they do for the NBA All-Star; the coach of the division winner. in this case the conference, would be the winner, i.e. Coach Self.
Don't count out rick Barnes, he is not in Coach Self's class but he has won everywhere he has coached.
Conference pride is a powerful motivator. Most of the friction is during head to head completion (heat of the battle) but In reality, most of the top players are friends and know each other well from all-star games and also the AAU circuit. I don't believe it would be an issue.
No problem, I think it would be a lot of fun to watch some of the best players in the country go against each other; kind of a College All-Star game...hopefully with better defense. Given that Conference bragging rights would be at stake and teams having to win the first game to go to the finals, I don't thinks a lack of defense would be an issue.
Isn't this what I suggested? The All-Conference teams are basically the top players, right?
By the way, the top 4 conferences are: Big 12, Big 10, PAC 12 and Big East. The ACC is #5