"A life of frustration is inevitable for any coach whose main enjoyment is winning."
- Chuck Noll (Steelers Coach)
JayHawkFanToo
13427 posts
I agree. Embiid needs to make a decision very soon if KU is to have a shot at landing Myles Turner. I will guess that Turner is waiting on Embiid's decision but probably will not wait for too long.
Maybe you and Hem should apply for the HC job at KU; you certainly feel that Coach Self did not do a good enough job and you can do it better.
If you are a "big Bill Self fan" I wonder how people that are not fans feel like. Any objective reader that reads you post would certainly not consider you a "big Bill Self fan."
Nothing personal Slayer, and no malice involved; however, you cannot have it both ways. You cannot be a fan and write the post you did. I am not saying that you should not criticize or hold Coach Self faultless, but you did not bring out a single positive thing about Coach Self and basically stated that he has not had his team ready since 2008. If you feel this way, you should be asking him to step down. You cannot be a fan of a coach you feel no longer does anything right...you did say his coaching was pathetic.
I don't mean to come across as being rude and if i do, I apologize. However, I get so tired of some posters constantly second guessing Coach Self without really knowing what goes on behind close doors or having the information he does.
Again, nothing personal but on this issue we will have to agree to disagree...big time.
Its is amazing how many writers that have seen KU play a couple of times come out of the woodwork and pretend to be experts on the team.
Same for some of the TV analysts. Many of the comments they make are so far off that they are laughable; some cannot even pronounce the players names.
I like Fran Fraschilla as a commentator. He was a pretty decent coach and I am surprised he is not coaching; if Bruce Pearl can get a huge contract, Fraschilla should certainly be able to get a decent contract. Maybe a good current paycheck and not having the aggravation that comes with coaching is not necessarily a bad place to be.
Looks like a lot of writers have lot of time available and write...well, just write without really thinking.
Thanks you for making this site available to us, die hard Jayhawk fans, to vent.
While at time we might not see eye to eye on issues, it is nice to see other views and present your own. We all have our beloved Jayhawks in common.
As we slowly fade into the non-basketball "blah" months, we do it with the thought that we will start up again in a few months with an improved KU team in the horizon.
I will periodically check the site; I imagine it will be very slow until football starts.
I bid all my fellow Jayhawks, even the long-winded ones, a great Spring and Summer and hope to see you back in a few months.
Essentially every close shot other than a backdoor cut and an alley-oop is normally contested and our bigs have consistently been able to convert at a good clip, particularly Jamari. Yesterday, Traylor, Ellis and Wiggins managed to shoot 21%, where in most any other game they would have shot at least twice that percentage and probably even higher. I had recorded the game and re-watched portions of it (until I got sick and erased it) and I was shocked at how many shots inside were missed. The shots missed were not any more or any less contested than they have been all season. Can you recall a single game during the season where these 3 played combined for percentage that low?
Beer there, done that?
Robert Burns famously wrote:
But, Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain;
The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,
And lea'e us nought but grief an' pain
For promised joy!
From which the expression "the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry" was derived.
It does not make a bit of difference how good of a plan Coach Self can come up with if the players do not properly execute it. The game plan against Stanford was not bad, the bigs were given the ball inside, by the basket and in good position to score, and time after time they missed layups, short jumpers and tip ins, plays that they normally convert with a high percentage of success; there is a reason why they are called "bunnies." Yesterday, time after time they failed to convert. What is Coach Self do to? Run into the court and score for them? It must be extremely frustrating for coaches to come up with a good plan, run it during practice and have the players completely miss it during the game. Coach Self is not the only coach frustrated with his players not executing; look at this video of Calipari physically going into the court and shoving his player into position:
Link to Calipari pushing player into position... ↗
Now, how many time do you think Coach Self has been tempted to run into the court and force players to execute the game plan? I would say many times per game.
All I am saying is let's not be too quick in blaming Coach Self for yesterday's loss.
The players you mentioned played in a completely different time where the concept of the one and done did not exist. A player was either drafted out of high school like Kobe, or went to to college with the idea of staying 4 years and if they developed, some left after 3 years such as Pierce and Jordan. In this day and age Jordan and Pierce would be one and done, no question about it.
Noel's injury was more serious and NBA managers knew what would be involved in rehabbing and he fell from a likely #1 to #6. Embiid's injury is not, at this time, considered a major injury and his drat stock has not yet been affected. Embiid is being advised by Luc Mbah a Moute, a fellow Cameroonian and 7 year NBA veteran (with an agent) that can provide valuable information directly via Luc or behind the scenes (agent). To say his family is "fairly ignorant" on the issue is inaccurate and patronizing
I believe you have it right. The risk associated with staying is too big.
So far, NBA managers do no consider Embiid's injury to be serious or career threatening; likewise, his standing in the draft has not yet been affected. There might be more information that comes out in the near future that changes things, but at this time, and absent any damaging information about his condition, it looks like his best option is to leave.
I personally think he is as good as gone; I just hope that if this is indeed his decision, he announces it soon so we can have a shot at Myles Turner, who I believe is waiting to see what Embiid does but will not wait too much longer.
The articles you cited are two months old and written long before his injury. Too many thing have happened since then and I am not sure you can use them as a source that he is not going to the NBA.
Do I hope Embiid stays? Sure, I would be a pleasure watching him play, same with Wiggins. Do I think Embiid stays? No, I don't think he stays and neither will Wiggins. I juts hope he makes the announcement soon so we have a shot of landing Myles Turner.
To the best of my knowledge, Embiid has not made a decision on the NBA.
My guess is that barring some unforeseen circumstances Embiid is gone. Too much money at stake and too much risk staying is a chance most reasonable people would not take.
I disagree.
I don't blame the game plan, KU had every chance to win but our guys kept missing bunnies. I have never seen a KU team miss so many point blank shots; this is normally the area where our players, particularly our bigs excel, but not today.
Ellis 3-10
Wiggins 1-6
Selden 1-5
Tharpe 2-8
Traylor 1-8
Mason 0-4
Looks like Frankamp (4 - 8 ) and Black (6 - 8 ) were the only ones that showed up to play.
Most of the shot the bigs missed we close to layups. You can't possibly blame this on Coach Self. The ball was given to players in a position to score and they just did not finish. Between Ellis, Wiggins, Traylor they went 5-24 (21%) and the majority of those were from close range. if they make just a couple of the 19 they missed, KU wins; If they make half of those, which is close to their average inside, KU wins going away.
Well...my undergraduate Alma Mater, Dayton does it gain. I was dreading the next round where they would have faced KU much like they did in 2009 when Aldrich had 13 points, 20 rebounds and an unbelievable 10 blocks. Unfortunately, this not going to happen.
Much like KU, Dayton is a basketball-crazy school with a nice basketball pedigree. In 1967, Dayton lost to UCLA in the NCAA finals; very few school can claim this,
In 1974, while I was looking for potential colleges, I discovered the University of Dayton. Since I was bound and determined to go away to school, my mother had set up strict guidelines; the school had to be a private, Catholic school with excellent academics. Luckily, most Catholic schools met those requirements but basketball was outstanding at Dayton and Notre Dame in the Midwest and I did not want to stay on the East Coast. In January 1974, Notre Dame led by Adrian Dantley ended UCLA's 88 game wining streak which placed it at the top of the list; however, a couple of weeks later, Dayton lead by Johnny Davis beat the then #2 ranked Notre Dame and at the NCAA tournament it went 3 OTs before falling to UCLA (led by Bill Walton and Keith Wilkes). which moved to the Final Four, Incidentally UCLA lost to North Carolina State which had David Thompson, Tom Burleson and Monte Towe in the Semifinals, and KU, whose players included Cook, Morningstar, Kivisto, Greenlee, and Von Moore lost to Marquette in the other semifinal. NC State won the title and KU lost to UCLA in the third place game. By the way, the next year, 1975, Dayton beat KU in the NIT finals, back when the NIT was a prestigious tournament and KU was not even in my radar.
The excellent engineering program and the basketball tradition swayed my decision and this is how I ended up at the University of Dayton. In 1978 I came to KU to get my doctorate and never left and I have been a Jayhawk fan ever since. Needless to say, I still have great fondness for Dayton and follow the program progress, and in the order of preference it runs a very close second to KU. Since KU will not make it to the Sweet 16, at least I am elated that Dayton is.
The Dayton Arena, which has now hosted the most NCAA games, is a very nice venue that is consistently sold out, due to the great support of the student and town, Even with student body of about 11,000 and an arena capacity of just over 13,000, Dayton has managed to consistently rank in the top 25 in attendance, which in this age of big arenas is quite an accomplishment. Much like AFH. the Dayton arena represents what is good with college basketball.
Congrats to Dayton and it ongoing success and most of all congrats to KU; perhaps it did not have the kind of season we all expected and have grown accustomed, but by any standard, it was a very successful season.
While playing Frankamp worked well yesterday, let's not forget that basketball is a game of match ups. What worked well against Eastern Kentucky might not necessarily work well against Stanford. I am sure Coach Self will pick the player he thinks will work out best and if it is not working, he will adjust accordingly.
As a coach's son, Frankamp is a smart player with excellent fundamentals, in the mold of players such as Tyrel Reed, a player that started slowly but gradually became an essential part of the team. Frankamp is a lot like Reed but with better 3 point shot, and Tyrel was very good 3 point shooter.
Tyshawn Taylor was covered in them; I guess I had not really noticed them on TV. He did a signing In Overland Park and I was surprised how many he had and also how skinny he was in person.
For states like California and North Carolina with lots of Division I scools, it is not uncommon to send 3 or more teams to the dance. However, for states having at least 3 Division I schools, Kansas is the only one to send ALL Division I teams to the dance and this is the third year in a row to do so. Two states with 2 Division I teams, Nebraska and New Mexico send both teams; however the University of Nebraska at Omaha which is on provisional status did not make it.
California, Ohio, North Carolina and Texas have each 4 teams in the Tournament; however these states have large numbers of Division one schools, California 24, Ohio 13, North Carolina 18 and Texas 21. Illinois and Indiana do not have a single team. When you look at in in context, Kansas sending all 3 Division I schools is quite remarkable, particularly when this is the third year in a row and includes a #1, #2 and #9 seeds. Indeed, not only the cradle of basketball but the current hot bed as well.
I believe Lyle has off-the-court issues that make him a liability. There is doubt that he will even be eligible to play next season and he might end up in a Division II school or JuCo. If Embiid leaves (most likely scenario) and we get Turner, then it would be the top class in the country. There are a number of 2015 guards coming up that I am sure Coach Self would rather have than Lyle. If he would be a top 5 recruit I can see making the effort, but not for a player ranked outside the top 20 (Scout - 21, ESP - 41, Composite - 22); at one time he was ranked as high as 8 but his stock has gradually gone down. Coaches have their hand full as it is and don't need a high maintenance player.
Look at Anrio Adams, a player with a lot of potential. While at KU he was kept somewhat under control, but his mouth got him in trouble with KU and left for Ohio and now he is playing for Junior College in Texas.
Excellent points HEM. I am not a fan of tattoos; to me they are cry for attention.
Also, Wiggins has dove to the floor a lot more that two times this season.
My point was not that Kentucky playing great for 3 minutes, as much as Florida playing extremely poorly for those 3 minutes.
The Vegas betting line, odds and point spread.
The current odds in KU's group are:
Florida 1:1
KU 3:1
Syracuse 6:1
If you see the KU odds go shorter, say 2:1 or 1:1, it would certainly indicate that Embiid is coming back and KU chances have improved. The odds are constantly tweaked to make sure money is bet evenly.
Likewise, the point spread for the KU EKU is KU -15, which means that KU is expected to win by 15 points. If too much money is being bet on one side, then Vegas changes the spread so half the money is bet on each side. If a lot more money is wagered on one side, Vegas can either win a lot of money of lose a lot of money depending on the outcome of the game; they don't like that uncertainty. If the money wagered is evenly divided they are guaranteed to make money of the vigorish or "vig" or "juice" which is the fee the casinos (or bookies) charge to take the bet. If the point spread suddenly moves to KU-20, then you know that it is likely that Embiid will be playing.
Google Vegas odds and Vegas point spread and you will find plenty of information on the subject
If you want to know whether Joel will be playing, just follow the Vegas line. They have the best analysts/investigators in the business, and have much better inside information abut injuries than the average sports writer does. After all, they are risking millions of dollars and need the best information available.
From your keyboard to God's ears...
Did you see the MU-Davidson game last night? There were maybe a couple of thousand fans in the stands. the arena looked essentially empty; absolutely embarrassing. KU will probably draw a bigger crowd for the shoot around in St Louis.
Did you guys see Kentucky play Florida in the SEC Championship (loss by 1)? UNM would have been smoked like an oscar meyer on the grill if they play Florida.
I did and with the exception of a three minute portion of the game when Florida relaxed way too much, Florida dominated UK the majority of the game..
10:49 left in the game, score Florida 54, UK 39
7:45 left in the game , score Florida 54, UK 50
In those 3 minutes Florida missed 3 FG and committed 2 turnovers and UK capitalized on that. The rest of the game, Florida played conservatively not to lose.
Having watched both teams play several times throughout the season and given a choice, I would prefer to play UK over UNM at this point of the season, as we match up better with them without Embiid; Cauley-Stein would be easier to control than the bigs at UNM. Just my opinion.
He is trying to mask how much UK has underperformed. He was supposed to have the best incoming class of all time; however, KU's freshmen have clearly outperformed UK's.
I always thought that UK's class was over hyped and full of big names but KU's class was better overall; looks likes it has turned out this way.
Let's face facts... if that was us sitting in WSU's spot we would all be crying foul! And we didn't nail a 1 seed... we are a 2 and it would still be a crime. Come on... compare UNM to UK... it isn't even a comparison.
UNM vs UK Comparison:
AP Poll
No. 17 UNM
No. 28 UK
Coaches Poll
No. 17 UNM
No. 22 UK
ESPN Power Rankings
No. 20 UNM
UK Not listed in top 32
NCAA RPI
No. 2 UNM
No. 17 UK
It would seem that UNM is the better team, don't you think? Just saying...
Embiid has until April 27 to declare for the draft. If he does, he still has until May 8 to withdraw, provided he did not hire an agent; after that date he can no longer come back to KU.
SMU missing the Tournament might actually hurt them as Turner might have second thoughts about going to a school that does not regularly make it to the dance. SMU also has Mudiay coming in which will help, but chances are that even with these two highly ranked players, SMU would not be contending nationally. If I were a top ranked player that will be only one year in College , I would want to go to a school with a shot at the National Title; SMU is not that school.
KU should not have been penalized with a 3 year probation and being banned from the dance in '89 and unable to defend the title.
The violation was a relatively minor, Coach Brown bought a plane ticket so a prospect, Vincent Askew, could go to his grandmother's funeral; Askew did not even come to Kansas and went back to Memphis, Brown fled to the NBA and KU got royally screwed. The NCAA later implemented a program that essentially does the same thing...how bad could it have been?
The University was somewhat arrogant and though the violations were small enough that the in-house counsel could handle it. KU should have done like all other schools under similar circumstances and hired specialized outside counsel to handle the problem; had it done so, KU would have most likely gotten a slap in the wrist and not probation. KU did not even appeal the penalties. Different times, different people and the business portion of the program was not nearly the dominant force it is today.
Oh...the humanity!!!
That valuation is based on yearly revenues; you would have to compare this number to Coach Self's yearly contract not his entire contract.
You are assuming that the 20 points you say we lose (if Embiid does not play) would not be made up by Tarik, Jamari and even Landon; I just don't think this is the case. Maybe they don't combine for 20 like Embiid but I am sure they would be close to that. There would be a point difference but it would not be 20 points; I am not sure there is a player in the country that is worth a 20 point differential. Maybe we are just using different terms.
Embiid's averages for the season are:
Games Played: 28
MPG: 23.1
PPG: 11.2
RPG: 8.1
APG: 1.4
SPG: 0.9
BPG: 2.6
TOPG: 2.4
These are the number we can realistically expect from him. I believe that between Tarik and Jamari they can cover the points and rebounds, but we would miss his defensive presence. I am confident that KU would beat New Mexico by at least a dozen. I watched their game against SDSU and they were comfortably ahead and almost got caught at the end.
Florida is the current #1 ranked team and Syracuse was the previous #1 ranked team. This is quite different than Kentucky which was also ranked #1 but it was base solely on pre-season hype and after they lost to MSU, they dropped and continued to drop and never quite made back; same thing with Ohio State that went from #2 at one point to not ranked.
Thanks. I will send you an e-mail.
Are there any plans to add IM/PM so we can communicate with other members privately. You could have an option so users can selectively turn the feature off or ignore specific members IM/PMs and/or posts altogether.
Also, is there a way to communicate with you or the board administration off line? I looked everywhere and I did not find any option that would allow me to do this.
As I mentioned before, KU beat Ne Mexico by 17 with Embiid in Kansas City, If we get to play them again it will be in St Louis, a venue that will not be that different from the Sprint Center. Now, Do you think KU is 17 point worse without Embiid than with Embiid? I don't think so; maybe a few point but certainly not 17.
I agree with your assessment of the brackets. Having to go through Syracuse and Florida will not be easy, They are the current and previous #1 ranked teams; not an easy feat.
I saw that Coach K went on rant yesterday about including NC State and putting down the A10 conference. It was arrogant, wholly uncalled for and will not make him friends. Let's face it, other than the 4 top teams, there is not much more in the ACC. There has been talk that this was one of the reason NC State, a wholly undeserving team. made it in at the expense of SMU, a much more deserving team. such is College BBall.
This how Vegas has the opening odds. I have listed only the teams with 50-1 odds or better. Look like Vegas likes KU. :)
Florida 4-1
Michigan State 9-2
Arizona 6-1
Kansas 8-1
Wichita State 15-1
Virginia 15-1
Duke 15-1
Syracuse 15-1
Louisville 15-1
Wisconsin 20-1
Michigan 25-1
Villanova 25-1
Creighton 25-1
Iowa State 35-1
UCLA 35-1
Kentucky 40-1
North Carolina 50-1
KU with Embiid beat New Mexico by 17 points; without Embiid KU should win by a dozen.
Wichita State? :)
Looks like the Committee was sending a message to Wichita State saying...you think you are that good? Prove it.
If WSU can get through the gauntlet, then they truly deserve all the accolades.
Warren Buffet's company is insuring the 1 Billion dollar bracket...
KU beat Florida by 9 points in the second half after falling way behind in the first half by starting 4 very green freshmen. After watching UK almost beat Florida, it showed that Florida, like any other team is vulnerable to a good game plan. If we play them, particularly with Embiid back, I like our chances.
Point taken Slayer. I tend to be a glass half--full type of person so I tend to emphasize the positives; however, it is nice to have this discussion where many points of view can be presents and we are all free to draw our own conclusions. It's all for fun anyway as they really don't amount to heap of beans.
By the way KU would have to advance to the "fourth" not the "third" round to get Embiid. The NCAA now calls the play-in round the "first" round so KU will start already in the "second" round. Winning the first games moves us to the "third" round and a win there gets us to the second weekend (when Embiid is hopefully back) and the sweet sixteen...or "fourth" round.
I know it is silly, the play-in round should be called just that, and what is really the first round should be called "first" round, not "second" round...a pet peeve of mine. Sometimes I wonder if the change was made so teams like Missouri can hang a "second round NCAA" banner, even if they lose their first game. :)
You make good points. ISU fans in general have been pretty decent and they have always come in droves to KC for the tournament since the Big 8 days. KU has by far the most fans at the tournament but ISU is usually second,
What I have noticed lately is that a lot of their fans have become a little to full of themselves in the last couple of years and they have been taken the spotlight. In the past, other than the Pfizer-Tinsley team of 2000, they really have not quite "been there before" and they certainly don't know how to handle their new found success. Beating KU has certainly exacerbated their, shall we say..."enthusiasm."
Hoiberg is a very good coach and his "live by the 3, die by the 3" strategy is by and large working; it certainly did Friday. although their penetration was equally effective. I wonder how they are going to fare if they make it to the Final Four and have to play in the huge arena where many shooters have problems with the different depth of field. He certainly has been able to spot quality players and bring them to ISU; I am not sure if the transfer strategy is sustainable long term...but then, I am not sure if the one and done strategy is either.
While I appreciate that KU is ranked pretty low based on "points allowed" only, this statistic is very misleading as it covers all Division I teams, including super weak "low majors" conferences that routinely score in the 50s or 60s and compares it to teams in conferences with highs scoring team, such as the Big 12 with several high scoring teams, and where scoring is typically in the 70s or 80s.
You can take a look at stats such as AdjO (Opponents’ average adjusted offensive efficiency) by Ken Pomeroy, KU's opponents offense is ranked #6 with only Duke and Creighton in the top ten having better numbers. What this means is that KU has played against very good offenses and it is logical that defense stats would suffer.
Again, I am at all not saying that KU's defense is good or what we have grown accustomed and taken for granted year in and year out; what I am saying is that there are mitigating circumstances that have contributed to the drop, including, but not limited to, 3 starting freshmen and 3 other freshmen that have played a fair amount of minutes.
If we get a transfer he would have to sit one year, unless he has finished his degree in 3 years and the school he is attending does not have the graduate programs he wants, much like Tarik Black.
I will be rooting for WSU all the way until they play KU. Marshall has gone out of his way to alienate KU fans. I am not saying he should defer to KU, but purposely antagonizing its fans is not a good idea.
@Crimsonorblue22
The addition of Alexander, Turner and Michelson adds IMHO more to the team than the subtraction of Embiid leaving does. Wiggins is likely better than Oubre, but the team will have considerably more experience.
If Embiid stays, Turner will not come to KU, but we will still add Michelson ad Alexander. The net result either way is a better, more experienced team; of course this is just my opinion.
Like I often say, when you put thing in context, the image changes big time. You are absolutely right, St. Louis has the wheel coming off at the worst possible time; the computer ranking will likely drop WSU even more.
Very nice points Ict. Context, context, context...when you put the numbers in context the picture changes big time.