I just followed the hash tag you provided and added a warning; any one can find it. If I thought there were kids on this site I would not have posted the link; we are all adults here and can draw our own conclusions.
JayHawkFanToo
13427 posts
I don't believe it is his account. His twitter account is:
I agree, the picture is not good; watch it at your own risk...
I agree, Having UK make it to the Final Four is like adding salt to the wound.
One of my brackets is doing well (5th place) and all the bracket above me are done...so I have a shot...
Have not seen it. Quick Google search does not find anything either.
With all due respect your analogy is also apples to oranges,
Perhaps a better analogy would be: would you trade your awesome home entertainment system that is ranked among the top systems for the top rated system, for one year every ten years, and the rest of the time settle for something you pick at a big box store?
I saw the reference by @JayHawkFanToo to comparing Big 12 titles to Gonzaga's titles not being a fair comparison? Why not? Who in this conference ever does anything nationally? No one in this conference has won a national title except Kansas since when? The Model-T? How is this conference better than Gonzaga's? RPI? BPI? We were supposedly the best conference and no one even gets to the Elite 8. When we get on the national stage we are routinely pummeled.
HEM, actually you present a text book straw man argument. I very specifically stated the reason why the BIG 12 is a stronger conference.
Big 12 ended the season as the highest ranked conference by all ranking sources, and by all measured criteria. The West Coast Conference, on the other hand was ranked number 9.
The Big 12 had 7 teams at different times during the season ranked in the top 25. The West Coast Conference, on the other hand, only had 1 team. Gonzaga,
The Big 12 sent 7 teams or 70% to the NCAA Tournament. The West Coast Conference, on the other hand, sent only 2 (20%) and one was bubble team.
Those are actual, verifiable numbers and not a figment of my imagination.
While the differences year in and year out are not as pronounced as this year, the Big 12 is a much stronger conference than the West Coast Conference year in and year out, and no objective observer would claim that a West Conference title is comparable to a Big 12 Conference title.
The real straw man is to judge a team or conference or coach based solely by what they do (or don't do) in a couple of weeks at the end of the season instead of the entire body of work over the entire season or in KU's case for an extended period of time.
Time to move on and look forward to next season. We have two and maybe three top players coming in, several very capable returning players and the best coach in the business. The team could be even better. Perhaps this past season did not meet some fans standards and yes, we did not go far in the tournament, but by any objective criteria it was a very successful season.
What do we have to look forward to? At least another 25-30 wins, an 11th conference title, the unbelievable atmosphere of AFH, a high seed in next years NCAA, a team with the potential to win it all...How many fans form other programs can say that?...and we have it year in and year out.
Regardless of the early exit, KU is still one of the top prograsm with the rest looking up. Instead of being unhappy about what the team did not achieve, be happy for what it did; it is more than most programs dream of achieving.
I always say that continued success beats a one or two year wonder. I would not change the last 10 conference titles for one National title and years of mediocrity in between.
I posted an article that listed the most successful programs since the new NCAA format was introduced. Even if KU wold have lost in '08, it would still be tied with Duke for the #1 spot, even if it would mean its last title was in '88. Most knowledgeable analyst consider a National Championship just a part of the overall equation.
Also, are you comparing KU's title streak with Gonzaga's? Are you joking? You cannot even begin comparing winning a conference title in the Big 12 with on in the West Coast Conference. This year alone the Big 12 was ranked #1, 70% of its teams were at one time ranked in the top 25 and sent 70% of its teams to the NCAA; the West Coat Conference was ranked #9, had one team (Gonzaga) ranked in the top 25 and sent 2 teams (20%) to the NCAA, one of them a bubble team.
Look at the very successful and dominant programs of the past such as UCLA. Does anyone remember how many titles they won during their glory years? The answer is no. Most people remember the stars such as Alcindor and Walton and the incredible 88 game winning streak, which muck like KU averaging 30 wins per year during the Self era and having the best winning percentage, is a better indicator of the program overall and continued excellence.
Look at programs that had great but short runs, such a VCU, George Mason or Butler with back to back appearances in the finals, and yet they are not consider top programs, just run of the mill mid-major. As I said, long terms continued success will always trump short term success. I will take the success KU has had, even with the disappointing loses, over having 1 National Championship followed by years of average results.
Taller version of Magic Johnson...
Coach Self has stated many time that winning the conference is the most important goal every year, since winning the conference puts you in a good position to do well in the National Tournament. I agree.
A great example is Josh Selby. He is an incredibly gifted player but leaving early realty screwed up his potential career. Had he stayed at KU, he would developed into an elite PG and could have been what KU needed to win the title in 2012. With an extra year of experience and a title he would have easily been a lottery pick with a guaranteed contract. Instead he listened to the people that just wanted to sponge of off him, and even when he was the MVP of the NBA Summer League, he was unable to get a permanent contract and moved through several D-League teams, one Chinese team and I believe he is currently playing in Croatia. Oh, what could have been.
I don't place Xavier Henry in this category since he was a lottery pick and has had guaranteed money every year and now he has had a re-birth with the Lakers and is having perhaps his best season to date. Same with Julian Wright since he also had guaranteed lottery money and left at the right time and an extra year might have actually exposed his flaws.
The Josh Selby story should be told to very player at KU that is considering leaving early.
I think we are in the same page. My point was that every single HS top 30 player "thinks" he is ready to be a OAD, but in reality very few are; most will have to stay in college longer and develop in order to get a shot.
No problem. I think we are all frustrated; me probably less since I still have Dayton to look forward.
Hem said:
"Teams with lesser pure talent win over teams with greater pure talent all the time."
and used as an example the match up between Kentucky "laden with freshmen five start dudes" and Wichita with "not so much." However, and as I mentioned, the "freshmen five start dudes" actually won that game. I was referring to the specific match up he mentioned and not the overall performance of the "boy wonders" at UK.
By the way, KU got pasted by TCU...yes, that TCU last year; arguably the most embarrassing loss in recent memory if not in the program history..
The best team does not necessarily win the Tournament. The team that gets hot and (very) lucky at tournament time usually does. Look at the '88 KU team; if that tournament gets replayed ten times how many time do you think KU wins it? Or the '08 Championship game, if not for Mario's "miracle" shot, Memphis wins that game.
Honest question. If you were in Embiid's gigantic shoes and given that you will be one of the top 3 pick and there might be potential health issues, would you stay in college or would you go to the NBA?
To me the answer is a no- brainer, go to the NBA.
How about KU last year...
5th year Senior
5th year Senior
5th year Senior
Senior
Red shirt Freshman (Lottery pick)
Didn't Kentucky beat Wichita?
Hard to play ahead of a player like Wilbekin. Eniis absolutely bricked his last two shot against Dayton; he really should have passed but decided to win the game by himself; with that attitude he should do well in the NBA.
About the OADs, I would perhaps rephrase and say that every player ranked in the top 30 "thinks" he has the talent to play in the NBA after one year but most don't.
The average NBA career length is about 6 yeas, but this number is heavily biased by the number of players that last only one or two season. When you consider player that average 25 or more minutes per game the career length is about 11 years, So, the average NBA team with 15 player (only 12 active) roster, loses slightly over 1 player per year to end of career. With 30 teams in the NBA, only 30 to 45 new players will make it and stay in the NBA every year. Lately, with influx of foreign players, the number of college kids moving up is even smaller. Realistically, the odds of making it to the NBA outside of being a Lottery or first round pick, are very small.
Dayton is a well disciplined team an much like Wichita, they will not beat itself. It started the season strong, went through a rough patch with lots of injuries but finished the season strong.
In many ways, Dayton is a smaller version of KU. A basketball first school with a strong and basketball savvy fan base, a nice tradition and a well known Arena that absolutely rocks during games. Obviously they cannot compete with programs like KU for the top players, but looks like they have gotten the most form the ones they have.
The previous two coaches they had Oliver Purnell (9 years) and Brian Gregory (8 years) had good success and moved to bigger programs, Purnell to Clemson and Gregory to Georgia Tech. Hopefully Archie Miller will stay at least that long.
Yes, a very happy consolation. In no way compensates for KU early exist but very happy for them..and me.
Dayton is my undergraduate Alma Mater, so obviously I am rooting for them. Since KU did not advance, the Flyers are my consolation.
Dayton is taking it to Stanford and they are ahead by 10 point withe 6 minutes left in the first half...
Funny how the guy got labeled a cancer & a bad locker room guy. Aside from tweeting on his frustration over lack of playing time, does anybody KNOW or have any sources that he was such a cancer? I don't remember reading anything or seeing any tweets from former KU players on that team stating or insinuating as much.
Rio has a history of changing schools clear back to High School. After he left KU and transferred to Ohio, apparently he had problems and he did not leave as much as he was asked to leave, and he did not stick with JuCo either, so there is got to be some truth to the rumors that he was a bigger "distraction" than he had talent. His JuCo numbers are irrelevant; you can take just about any KU player and they would be the MVP at most JuCos.
As I recall Nino Jackson had serious academic problems and ended up at a prep school trying to get the grades needed for Division I. He played for Loyola Marymount but apparently he has left the program as well. A talented player with a lot off-the-court issues..
Two talented players that wasted precious opportunities. I don't believe I would want either one at KU.
I think Mason and Wiggins had the same tendency and once they started driving they could never dish. It almost seemed they had tunnel vision and could only see the basket in front of them or had no plan 2 once they started moving. Otherwise Mason had a few beautiful lob passes to Wiggins when he was almost standing still.
The difference is that Wiggins is 9 inch taller and is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, Mason...not so much.
Chuck Norris, on the other hand, does not need to leap over tall building, the buildings move out of the way...:)
Isn't that what I just said?
That's what she said...:)
Just kidding, I was agreeing with you...
Excellent example. Most top high school players have been preparing physically for a long time; many start in grade school. They also play summers in the AAU circuit and have access to above average coaches and physical trainers. Embiid, on the other hand, had none of this and was years behind the other players in physical development. His HS coach commented that he often got winded during games and he already had some back issues. From the physical stand point, the jump from HS to college was much greater for Embiid than for other top players.
At this time it is hard to tell whether the Embiid, Wiggins, Black would be better than Turner, Alexander, Oubre since we have not seen what the 3 later players can do. They can surprise us and exceed expectations or they can turn out not to be as good as advertised.
However, you need to look at the bigs line up in context and would have to add Michelson to the mix, since he is a new player. Michelson is a proven shot blocker that probably has gotten a lot better in his red shirt year. In this context, and assuming that the new players develop in relation to their current rankings, the new group might have the edge because of the additional player in the mix.
Now, when you add the fact that the returning players will have one more year of experience, one could make a convincing argument that next years team is potentially better; after all, inexperience was a big issue this past season.
As usual, you make some good points.
My issue with Mason is that he still has the HS volume shooter/scorer mentality and, at this time, he is a score first pas second point guard, and the reason why he got the quick hook from Coach Self lots of times.
He also reminds me of a young Sherron charging blindly ahead only to get trapped in the corner or on the base line; of course as he matured he was a lot more controlled. Mason tends to do the same thing, drive blindly to the hoop only to find himself surrounded by much taller players under the basket and get his shot blocked or commit a turnover. Once he gets his game under control and learns to distribute the ball, he could be very good.
Most HS teams are limited to 20 games per season. At KU he played 35 games that required a much, much higher level of physical effort compared to high school. It is normal that towards the end of the season players, particularly freshmen, are worn out.
If you get a stiffy, your game gets iffy...bada-bin
(loosely stolen from two an half men)
Let the jokes begin...
I always thought that "stiffness" was a desirable thing to improve performance for indoor sports...bada-boom
I think you are making my point. Look at programs like Arkansas, UCLA and Indiana. while you remember some of the great team they had, they are no longer consider elite, not because they have not won a National Title lately, but because they have not had continued success. Florida is an elite program not necessarily because its two titles but because it consistently contends year in and year out.
Take KU. No question that it is one of the top 3 programs in college BBall and this analysis places KU at #1.
Now, if instead of beating Memphis it would have lost, it would still be #1 tied with Duke, even it it means it was 26 years since it last won a National Championship. KU is an elite program because it is consistently good and every year it contest for the title, and not because it won a Title 6 years ago. The #2 program,Duke, was bounced in the first round by a #15 seed 2 of the last 3 years, but since they are consistently good, NCAA notwithstanding, they are consider an elite program.
Again, continued success will trump one or two isolated, outstanding seasons.
Great news. Selden has the potential to be a lottery pick, no question about it.
It is all relative. Butler wan in the finals two years in a row and they are still a mid-major program and no one in his right mind would put it a the same level as KU, Duke, UK, UNC. Short term fame is fleeting but continuous success is remembered.
Some people hate KU's continuous success and they will always find a reason to criticize it. I am just happy with the program with have and hope that it continues having the same success; I could not care less what fans of other programs think.
Thank you. I guess I am a glass half-full type of person and tend to concentrate on the positives. Concentrating on the negative aspects tends to makes you sore and unhappy; positive thinking makes you happier and hopeful.
There is only ONE team that is happy at the end of the year, and every other successful program ends the season with a loss.
In a day and age when Mercer can bounce Duke and Bobby Mo can beat Kentucky in the NIT, winning 10 Conference Titles in a row is an extraordinary accomplishment and one that no other (major conference) team has done since the UCLA glory days when parity was not even in the radar.
While winning the NC is great achievement, we should not define the success of a season simply by winning it. If this was the case, there are 350 out of 351 school that would have unsuccessful seasons every year.
As a fan base, we are extremely spoiled. While most every other fan base is wandering whether its school will make it to the dance, we are wondering if KU will be a top 3 seed and are disappointed if it is not. I am not sure what is enough to some fans...most wins in the last 10 years, 10 conference titles in a row, best winning percentage over the last 1o years, consistently one of the top 3 programs, a great coach, great tradition, AFH, he Cathedral of basketball...I can go on....
Yes, we have had powerhouse teams that did not get the title but there are many other school with similar "powerhouse" teams that did not win it either. The best team in college BBall is not always the champion; it is the team that gets hot, gets some lucky bounces and manages to advance that wins the title. If Frankamp makes the 3 point shot at the end of the game and KU wins in overtime, we are not even having this discussion. One lucky bounce could have changed the entire outcome in the same way that Mario's shot change the outcome in 2008.
There comes a time when we need to be happy for what we have and for what the team has achieved and quit being sore about what we don't have or have not achieved. Except for maybe a couple of other programs. most would trade places with KU, no question asked. Some day we will telling our kids and grand kids how we watched NBA super stars Wiggins and Embiid play at KU. Let's be happy with what we have and move on.
I agree. The change in the contact rules affected teams like KU that rely on defensive pressure a lot more than it did teams that emphasize offense.
I believe over the break, Coach Self will update his defense strategy to cope with the new rules and we will see a much improved defensive team next season.
"You don't play against opponents, you play against the game of basketball."
- Bobby Knight (Winningist Div. I Basketball Coach)
"If you can’t accept losing, you can’t win."
- Vince Lombardi (Legendary Football Coach)
"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward."
- Vernon Law (Former Pirates pitcher)
"Difficulties in life are intended to make us better, not bitter."
- Dan Reeves (Former NFL athlete and head coach)
My leading candidate to replace Bil Self when he retires, Brad Stevens, is now coaching for the Boston Celtics. Maybe, like Pitino, he will get tired of dealing with prima-donas that make a lot more money than he does and come back to coach college BBall.
At this point, I cannot think of a single coach that I would take over Bill Self; this includes posters in this forum that think they can do a better job than Coach Self :)
I agree that Turner would come to KU if Embiid leaves;. However, he will wait only so long; he needs to start planning and the start of Summer school is only a couple of months away. Most players use Summer school to get a jump start and I ma sure Turner wants to do it as well.
"When I step onto the court, I don't have to think about anything. If I have a problem off the court, I find that after I play, my mind is clearer and I can come up with a better solution. It's like therapy. It relaxes me and allows me to solve problems."
-Michael Jordan (Basketball Legend)
"I always felt that my greatest asset was not my physical ability, it was my mental ability."
- Bruce Jenner (Track and Field Athlete, Motivational Speaker)
"Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles."
- Alex Karras (Football Player)
"Good, better, best. Never let it rest. Until your good is better and your better is best."
- Tim Duncan (NBA MVP)
"Nothing will work unless you do."
- John Wooden (Basketball Coach)
"Wisdom is always an overmatch for strength."
-Phil Jackson (NBA Coach)