🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@jaybate-1.0 What is the goal of Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, and let's throw in Puma as well since they have considerable influence in Golf here in the US and Soccer outside of the US. The goal of any major corporation is to make money is it not? How do these companies make money? By selling merchandise. In football, the only thing that's a significant money maker is jerseys and so making different jerseys is the way to make money because people will buy every version of a jersey to wear to games or at home.

In basketball, you have a the jerseys which don't get updated nearly as frequently as football, but you have signature model shoes such as Jordan's and LeBron's that come out every year and have multiple color combinations and people buy every color combination. That's a lot more money than a football jersey.

In soccer, teams typically have 3-4 uniforms and get updated very regularly, every 1-2 years, and along with the jerseys withouy names, you have player specific jerseys. You also have the national team who updates their uniform every year. People will buy every possible because people in Europe and South America are far more passionate about soccer than people in the US are about any sport. Soccer is also the most popular sport in the world and one where Nike, Adidas, and Puma spend far more money to be the outfitters of teams like Manchester United, FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, and other top clubs than they do on college contracts.

And with golf, look at the contract Rory just signed with Nike earlier this year. It's right up with the richest endorsement deals in sports. Also can you buy the same outifits the competitors wear and be able to wear to work? Just about every polo style shirt I own is a golf shirt and if you look at the price tag on some of these shirts, they're right up there with jersey prices as are the golf pants.

Basketball, soccer, and golf are all sports played worldwide with stars recognized worldwide who make far more money for Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, and Puma than college football does. So, why would shoe companies exert the influence they're capable of on a sport where the ROI is nowhere near the levels of basketball, soccer, and golf? Money talks and the money in football just isn't any near what it is for basketball, soccer, and golf.

@jaybate-1.0 Think about how shoe companies were able to gain such influence in basketball. Signature shoes for pro athletes and sponsoring and outfitting high level AAU programs.

Also think about which sports can the average 40 year old go out and play down at the Y or in a rec league. Basketball and soccer are about it which is also why those two sports have the richest apparel endorsement deals. People can actually go to a store, buy a signature shoe for a basketball or soccer player and play in a rec league on the weekend wearing those shoes along with other player endorsed apparel. That's not the case with football.

Who in football has a highly desirable signature shoe? I honestly can't think of anyone who does. The big 3 might have a T-shirt slogan like Beast Mode or Johnny Football for an individual football player, but how many football players do you see in commercials for Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour? Direct TV promoting Sunday Ticket really is about the only place to see a football player other than Peyton Manning promote something. People aren't buying helmets or spikes to wear on the street so the marketability just isn't there with football apparel and players because there aren't any over 40 football leagues down at the local Y like there is for basketball and soccer. Another thing that hurts the marketability of football players is that they wear helmets that cover their faces. How many football players do you think you could identify just by looking at a picture of them in street clothes? I guarantee for the vast majority of people including myself, I can identify a lot more basketball players than I can football players (and I watch way more football than basketball) and then even with the football players, it's almost exclusively QB's. Calvin Johnson is an all time great WR, but I wouldn't be able to pick him out of a line up because he wears a helmet. So if I was a marketing executive, why would I pick someone most people wouldn't recognize unless he's in his Lions uniform to be the face of an apparel marketing campaign? Football players just aren't as marketable as basketball players so apparel companies aren't going to spend the money to endorse a football player that they would a basketball or soccer player.

And the other point I brought up, what in HS football is even remotely similar to AAU basketball? 7 on 7 will probably get there one day, but at this point 7 on 7 teams are still just the skill position players of HS teams. I wouldn't be shocked if in the next 20 years we start to see 7 on 7 club teams and that's when Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour will quite a bit more influence on recruiting, but even then it won't be near the level of influence that it is in basketball because elite college football recruits rarely have the immediate impact that elite college basketball recruits which hurts marketability and the rate of elite HS football recruits being busts is also much higher than elite basketball recruits so there's a much higher risk of losing money on a kid in football than basketball.

@jaybate-1.0 Shoe companies don't have significant impact in football recruiting. There are two primary reasons for this. One being that shoe companies don't make model shoes for football players like they do basketball. When was the last time you heard anyone say they just bought the newest Beast Mode or JJ Watt model shoe? This means they don't invest the hundreds of millions of dollars endorsing football players like they do basketball and soccer players.

Another big reason is that there is nothing in HS football that is comparable to the AAU in basketball. In football, you play for your high school and that's it, there's no club team with an apparel sponsorship steering you towards a particular school. Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour just don't have the influence in college football recruiting that they have in college basketball.

@drgnslayr I think Cheick is as well because his issue is black and white and he'll either be allowed to play or not. Skal's situation is a lot of gray area like Cliff's was and we don't know how the NCAA will rule. Honestly though, I think both will play and I'd love to see them go head to head 2/3 of the way through the season and bith are adjustes to college ball.

I think Hield or Niang will win it because they'll put up better numbers because they'll be the primary focuses of their offenses whereas Ellis, Mason, and Selden would eliminate each other because the scoring would be more balanced. It doesn't mean they are better players necessarily, just the opportunity to put bigger number up for Hield and Niang.

@JayHawkFanToo I don't care if it's jest or not, just drop the whole Zenger intentionally sabotaging KU athletics bit. It's old, tiresome, and holds no weigjt whatsoever. Zenger has more degrees from KU than he does KSU. He also raised the money to fire Gill after year 2 when nobody thought he'd be able to raise the money until after year 3 or 4. He also worked out the deal for Rock Chalk Park where KU didn't have to pay for the facilities and got top notch facilities for 3 programs at KU that desperately needed new homes. KUAD is in a better place overall today than they were when Zenger was hired.

I think you're gonna have to find a new person to play Graham, unless you've found a cure for death.

@jaybate-1.0 And Weis did one of those things that guaranteed failure and he failed faster than my Astros have blown their lead in the AL west this month.

And should Beaty abandon his plan for KU football after 2 years, he'll be a guaranteed failure here as well and it will be time to moce on from him.

@JayHawkFanToo The NBC article from April is out of date at this point and no longer relevant.

Ask yourself this question, why would the NCAA still be investigating Skal for impermissible benefits if he was not already academically eligible? Why waste resources on a player who isn't eligible to play?

The wording of the August article is the key here. It specifically says they have not ruled on his ELIGIBILITY. It does not say that he has yet to be CLEARED. Again, there is a big difference in those two words and they are not interchangeable in this context. This has been my point all along and the August article doesn't contradict or disprove what I've been saying and actually says the exact thing I've been saying this entire time.

Cliff Alexander's eligibility was also in question last year just like the August article says about Skal. What that means is that Kentucky is free to play Skal come November as of today if they wanted to because HE HAS NOT BEEN DEEMED INELIGIBLE. What will likely happen is the Skal will practice with UK and not dress on game days or travel with UK until the NCAA makes an official ruling on their impermissible benefits investigation. At that point 1 of 3 things will happen. Skal will either be cleared of of wrong doing and allowed to play without risk of UK forfeiting games, ruled permanently ineligible and will no longer be allowed to be around UK basketball, or he will be suspended for a set number of games and then allowed to play.

This is relevant to KU because Kentucky does come to AFH in January and Skal is being picked as a preseason 1st team All-American so he is a difference maker of a player.

@JayHawkFanToo Find an article that says he is ineligible and not just being investigated. As for your question, there's not an article out there that says he is eligible because the NCAA doesn't make those announcements when there's not an issue. Skal Labissiere's eligibility issues have never been academic, they've always been about impermissible benefits which doesn't stop someone from going through the clearinghouse. So again, until NCAA says otherwise, Skal Labissiere is assumed to be eligible at the moment and that is the mindset you have to take with a player regarding their eligibility.

So again, until there is an official statement by the NCAA to the contrary like there is with Diallo, Skal Labissiere is assumed to be eligible.

@JayHawkFanToo said:

@Texas-Hawk-10

I could be wrong, but a player is not deemed to be eligible or cleared to play by default, the NCAA officially has to clear him..

This is where you're wrong because your thinking is backwards on the matter. Once a player is cleared through the clearinghouse or whatever it's called now, which Skal has been, they are eligible until the NCAA says otherwise. Skal Labissiere graduated, made it through the clearinghouse and is currently eligible to play as of today.

Think of it this way, unless the NCAA specifically says so, a player is assumed to eligible and can play at the team's discretion. The NCAA has never officially commented about Skal Labissiere other than they are investigating his situation, therefore it can be assumed that Skal is currently eligible to play at Kentucky's discretion.

In Cheick Diallo's case, the NCAA has specifically said that Diallo is not currently eligible because he has yet to make it through the clearinghouse.

@jaybate-1.0 There's never a guarantee of success, you know this. Weis may not have succeeded had he stuck with his plan (there's certainly plenty of evidence to support this viewpoint), but abandoning it did guarantee failure and Weis lasted all of 4 games after he bailed on his plan so Zenger really didn't show much patience with Weis once he changed paths.

@JayHawkFanToo Being cleared and being eligible to play are two different things in this situation. Like I said, from what I've read, Skal's situation is a lot more in line with Cliff's than Cheick's. Once the investigation of Cliff started, he was never ruled ineligible and Bill Self could've played Cliff if he wanted to even though Cliff was never "cleared" by the NCAA.

This is the case with Skal as well. He hasn't yet been cleared of wrong doing by the NCAA because of his handler, but like Cliff, the NCAA also hasn't ruled Skal ineligible and Kentucky is free to play Skal at their own risk just like KU was free to do with Cliff.

This does not mean that Skal will suit up for Kentucky if the investigation is still pending when the season starts just like KU didn't play Cliff while the investigation was pending.

Skal Labissiere is technically eligible to play based on my understanding of the situation. Skal's situation is more on the Cliff end of the spectrum than the Diallo end of the spectrum as far as eligibility is concerned.

Skal has already met the prerequisites to play NCAA basketball and it's currently an issue of whether or not his handler violated a rule that would cost Skal his eligibility.

Cheick Diallo has not yet met the prerequisites to play NCAA basketball and so everyone is waiting to see if those prerequisites have been met. The good news is that 2 of Diallo's Our Savior teammates from this year have been cleared to play D1 ball.

Basically, Skal is currently officially eligible to play in the eyes of the NCAA until the NCAA says otherwise.

@HighEliteMajor Mangino used the red uniforms on occasion as well including in the Orange Bowl.

Keep in mind that the uniforms are also a part of recruiting pitches to athletes so it's more important to have uniforms that appeal to potential recruits so even if KU wears the worst looking uniforms ever, we're not the target demographic for these uniforms. HS kids are the target demographic for the trends in uniforms to try and help with recruiting and to stand out as much as possible, especially if there isn't much tradition to stand on with a program like KU football.

@HighEliteMajor No it's not the same. There's a difference between implenting rules and dismissing players who don't follow the rules and were major academic risks than kicking players off because they didn't his vision. You could probably count on one hand the number of players who left because they didn't fit the system with Jordan Webb being the primary person of that group. Most of the players Weis ran were upperclassmen who were Mangino recruits. These were the players that took full advantage of the freedoms Gill gabe them after being there under Mangino's dictatorship. Gill is a man that's all about personal accountability and that wasn't what KU needed post Mangino and the players that were still around took full advantage of that by skipping classes and other stupid stuff and when Weis instilled his system, a lot of Mangino's players weren't able to meet those expectations in or out of the classroom and suffered the consequences of their actions. Weis did welcome back multiple players with academic issues once they got their academics in order so he wasn't running off these players specifically because they were Gill players.

The bulk of Gill players that Weis let go of were in the 2011 recruiting class that decommitted after Weis took over because they didn't fit the system Weis ran. The most notable of these recruits was current Baylor starting QB Seth Russell.

So again, it was not an intentional gutting and Weis didn't care if the player was originally a Mangino or Gill recruit. If that person didn't meet the expectations Weis layed out from day 1, he ran them and there were a lot of people who didn't meet those expectations because of Gill's philosophy being such a bad for for KU at that time.

@HighEliteMajor He didn't win with two uniforms.

@jaybate-1.0 First, let me say flat out that Charlie Weis did not intend to gut the program and anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

My opinion on what happened with Charlie Weis is that he laid out his 5 year plan in his introductory press conference and didn't follow through with that plan. The plan Weis laid out was to heavily recruit JuCo's in his first couple of classes and transition to being more focused on HS recruits to develop. The reason Weis did this was to make up the gap from the players he dismissed from Gill's teams. A lot of the players were behavioral and supposed a lot of academic issues as well. IMO, the only mistake Weis made when dumping talent was getting rid of players who didn't fit his system like Jordan Webb. This is where the depth was truly hurt. That said, there was progress from year 1 to year 2 as KU went from 1 win to 3 wins. After year 2 is where the biggest problem really started and why Charlie bombed so miserably in year 3. He abandoned his system when he hired John Reagan to change from the pro style to a generic version of the spread. That switch is what 100% doomed Charlie Weis and KU last year and made Zenger have to push the reset button again on KU football. I realize that Charlie was never going to get KU past 6-6 at best, but when he suddenly pulled a complete 180 on his approach, that's when he absolutely had to go. People complained at KU's statistical rankings in terms of where KU ranked and with a pro style offense, but you're never going to be a highly ranked offense running that system (yards or points) and Weis let those numbers cloud his judgement to switch to an offense he wasn't very familiar with and that decision is what ultimately turned KU from a struggling program into a dumpster fire.

As for why Zenger didn't immediately pass on Weis because of the JuCo approach, that was how Snyder built KSU and that strategy didn't really pay off until year 5 for Snyder so Charlie's initial plan wasn't one that should have raised red flags. As bad as KU was under Gill, it also wasn't realistic to expect Charlie's pro style to really pay off right away even with the JuCo recruits immediately. So basically, the biggest red flag Weis raised was him abandoning his philosophy and bringing in John Reagan and that experiment lasted all of 4 games before Zenger had enough.

So while Charlie Weis was never a good hire IMO, Zenger let it play out as long as he should have before pulling the trigger based on the on field results. The decision to hire Weis is one that didn't sit well with a lot of people and there was a negative bias before Weis ever coached his first game that clouded a lot of people's judgement. I personally was a fan of the his hiring, but I at least gave Charlie a chance to implement his plan, but when he bailed on that plan, that's was the final straw for even his strongest backers.

@drgnslayr There's not an immediate school that jumps out as one Beaty would voluntarily leave KU for. His alma mater is D2 Lindenwood and the only D1 program he has connections to that would be a step up from KU is Texas A&M. If he's done a good enough job at KU to where he's a serious candidate at Texas A&M someday, I won't complain because that means he'll have KU football in a good place. Considering that Beaty is in his 3rd tour of duty at KU, I don't think there's much of a chance of him leaving for the first job that comes his way.

@Lulufulu said:
Im not a football fan but I would like to see KU Football climb the ranks. Easier said than done.

I'll tell you way to make that happen quicker. START SUPPORTING THE TEAM! If you're a Williams Fund donor, ear mark that donation for the football program. Help them raise the money needed to renovate Memorial. Buy season tickets even if you don't go to the game so that KU football can still get money. If you live in the area, go to the games and show people that KU football is worth investing in. Lastly, if you truly care about KU basketball, then support the football program because the football program is going to have much more say in what conference KU ends up playing in during the next round of expansion/realignment. Do you want KU to stay in the Big 12 or possibly move to the Big 10 or do want to see KU basketball relegated to the AAC or some other league because none of the major conferences wanted KU basketball enough to admit them because of the state of the football program?

Me championing this right now isn't me saying blindly support the program no matter what they do because then there's no motivation for change. If you go to games and want something changed, make a sign that shows your displeasure with something and get attention that way. Donate money and ear mark for what cause you want and demand the KUAC show you exactly where those dollars were spent to keep them accountable for their spending.

@Lulufulu Here's an example for you. You agree to pay me $2,500 to paint your house. In our deal, we agree on the color I will use and that I won't get paint on anything that shouldn't get paint. I ask you if you want to add a second coat and you say you don't care so I end up only using one coat because you didn't say 2 coats. You end up hating the way I do the paint job and hire someone else to finish. I'm still entitled to the full payment of $2,500 because I was meeting our previously agreed upon stipulations and it's not my fault you didn't like my methods of paint application and didn't agree upon a reduced payment if you didn't like my methods. Steve Patterson was meeting all of his contractual obligations and it's not his fault UT didn't like the methods he took to achieve contractual responsibilities and didn't negotiate a reduced buyout in the event that happened. Almost guaranteed the next AD's contract will have a buyout plan in it should his methods not be appealing to UT adminstrators.

@nuleafjhawk Then you completely missed the point of me saying that. People here are way too damn impatient when it comes to rebuilding a football program that's a perennial door mat. My point was that even someone who is considered one of the top coaches in the profession (is there anybody who doesn't think Saban is one of the best?) wouldn't be able to make KU a winner overnight given the current state of the program and that's my point. David Beaty isn't going to turn around Kansas football overnight because not even the greatest coach alive today could do that. David Beaty has laid out his plan for Kansas football and is recruiting and making personnel decisions (both players and coaches) to fulfill that plan. He needs the full 5 years to wipe Charlie's impact from the program and all firing Beaty before 5 years is up is going to do is reset the clock on the turnaround hopes unless a coach who runs the same system is brought which historically doesn't happen.

@drgnslayr said:

Put that on our "KU Football Bucket List" - Hire the next Snyder! Get the one that knows it isn't just about recruiting a few star kids or running a fancy play here and there. It is about changing the tone; get administration, fans and supporters on board; make all kinds of positive changes that separate your current program from the past program... etc. etc. etc.

Beaty is doing that now. He's targeting players who fit the air raid offense and players who cand defend the spread on defense. Beaty already has a kid committed in 2017 class, when was the last time KU had a commitment in football that far in advance?

As far as fan involvement, attendance actually went up for the Memphis game from the SDSU game. Beaty also visited alumns outside of the state this summer which is not something Gill or Weis ever did. Beaty visited Houston, Dallas, Denver, Chicago, and I think another couple of cities that have strong alumni numbers to share his vision for KU football. This is Beaty's 3rd tenure at KU, this is a man that genuinely cares about KU to keep coming back and is doing everything in his power to turn KU football around and won't bail just because a better job comes available. Charlie Weis absolutely gutted this program and Beaty's job will not bear much fruit on the field until year 3 at the earliest (4 or 5 years in reality) when the roster numbers start getting back to FBS numbers and the majority of players on the field were receuited specifically for Beaty's system.

You want the next Bill Snyder at KU, just remember that Snyder won 1 game his first year at KSU and had a losing season 3 of his first 4 years in Manhattan. Even Snyder did not turn around KSU overnight, it took him until year 5 when the roster was completely his players for that hire finally payoff. KU could've hired Nick Saban last year and it would still take him 4-5 years to turn KU around.

@konkeyDong Why is ISU bad news? They just changed coaches 2 months ago and are having to start over with their recruits because of Prohm.

I also never thought Duke had much of a shot at Bolden. It seemed like it was going to be between KU and UK, but when Bama entered the picture, I think that battled shifted to KU and Bama with UK running a distant 3rd.

We can all talk about howuch Self changed and learned during the WUG, but the only game that really mattered against Germany, Self reverted back to old habits. I think the saying a leopard can't change its spots would be applicable here with Self.

Here's an analogy for everyone. Imagine you're a teacher and there are these two kids in your class. One makes straight A's and comes from a well off family and has access to top tutors outside of school and will not remember you when he reaches his career peak because you were only one of hundreds of people who helped him. The other one struggles and makes D's and F's, doesn't have the internet at home, and tutors don't want to help him because they think he's hopeless. He will however be very grateful and publicly thank you and reward you for helping him because you were one of a handful of people that believed in him when he was still at the bottom.

Are yall going to take the easy road or the hard road?

@truehawk93 I've heard plenty of first hand accounts from football players on 2009 team (not naming names for privacy reasons, but a couple were prominent figures on that 2009 team) and it wasn't a pretty picture. Mangino lost the support of the locker room after the Arist Wright incident and that team quit on Mangino.

@drgnslayr @wissoxfan83 Quitting on the football program is the absolute last thing they need right now. Thet need as many people as possible to go to the games and to put money in the football program's bank account. It's absolutely pathetic how bad the support from the football team is on the part of the donors. When you can't get people to invest in the program after a 12-1 season with a BCS bowl win, that's even more embarrassing to me than the team potentially going 0-12 this year.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE PROGRAM. If yall want change in the program, support financially as much as you can and convince others to do so as well. It's a much better feeling when the team finally breaks through when you were there suffering through the darkest hours than to ignore them until they do something. The only money the basketball program has ever gotten out of me is individual ticket purchases if I can make it to Lawrence during basketball season and apparel purchases. I have far more money supporting the football program because that's the area where it will make the most difference for the better. They were able to pry $500k to get the track removed which was a start, and hopefully there will be another anonymous donor to supply a big chunk of other funds required for futher renovations to the stadium.

@nuleafjhawk There's people ready to fire Charlie Strong today and if the Longhorns don't have a winning record this year, there will people lining up outside Strong's office ready to pack up for him.

It's also true a lot of Longhorns don't know who Shaka Smart is, but that's also because most Longhorn fans don't even know that UT has a basketball team. KU is the only game that's a guaranteed sell out on there schedule and that's even with them removing the KU game from the single game ticket packages and either having to buy season ticket plan or off the secondary market.

@drgnslayr and @nuleafjhawk Obviously there's no guarantee Beaty is the man to fix KU football. What I can tell both you with 100% is that apathy and quitting on supporting the program is surest way to guarantee that KU is always a bottom feeding doormat.

@drgnslayr If you've really been a fan that long, then you know damn well firing a coach every 3-4 years hasn't worked. The coaches that have actually made in roads on turning around KU football are the ones who have gotten the time to bring in their players and develop their culture. Do you really think any coach is going to be successful at a place like KU knowing they have 2-3 years otherwise they're gone? It's just not going to happen and everybody knows it's not going to happen, yet people preach patience and then don't follow through on giving that coach the time they need to develop the program.

I was one of the ones freezing their asses off in Memorial against TCU last year and ever since Weis was fired, there's been a different attitude on KU's sidelines that has carried over to this year and that's more than enough for me to support Beaty and staff in their entirety. If I had the resources, I'd personally donate the money to renovate Memorial and make it a top class facility.

Leading candidates right now are current Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, Mack Brown, current Louisville AD Tim Jurich, and former WVU AD Oliver Luck (Andrew Luck's dad). Part of me hopes that it's Bowlsby just for the hope that the Big 12 hires a new commissioner that realizes the Big 12 needs to get to 12 programs. Of those 4 names, I think Oliver Luck would probably do the best job in that role considering how good for WVU he was in his 4 years in that job.

This is a big deal for the Big 12 and something everyone needs to pay attention to because as much as we don't want it to be true, Texas does hold the most power in the Big 12 and whatever the new AD's stance on expansion is will be one of the most important issues going forward for the Big 12. If the new Texas AD is pro expansion (I think Oliver Luck would be, along with Jurich), then I think we see the Big 12 add 2 more teams in the next 3 years. If it's Bowlsby or Brown, I think we see the demise of the Big 12 once the current TV deal is up as the SEC, Big 10, ACC and PAC 12 will all scramble to get to 16 members from the scraps of the Big 12 and AAC which means that Big 12 schools would likely get relegated out of the power conferences.

Azubuike is probably picking between KU and FSU. No, he's not being leveraged against other bigs in this class because KU needs 3 of them this class. Bolden is the guy who could come in and play right away and the only big KU has a realistic shot at who that is true about. I know KU is in on Harry Giles, but I just don't see him playing outside of NC for college. Azubuike and Schnider Herard are guys who probably wouldn't contribute much as freshmen, but would be ready to do so in their 2nd years. Mitch Lightfoot is the fallback plan for KU should Self need one this year with the bigs.

@drgnslayr If you my honest opinion right now, here it is. Defeatist attitudes like yours are exactly what's wrong with Kansas football right now. David Beaty has coached 2 damn games here and people are already calling for his head or completely giving up on the program despite everyone knowing ahead of time this was a year where 2 wins would've been considered a great season. Anybody who thought this was a quick fix doesn't know a damn thing about football. Is Kansas football the easiest job in the world? Absolutely not and people like you who take the attitude you're taking right now are why KU is one of the worst programs in the country. I obviously don't have enough money to make significant changes to the football program, but whenever I do donate, it is specifically for the football program because that's where the most help is needed, yet KU donors have their heads too far up their own asses trying to make a name for themselves with KU basketball to realize that KU football is what's going to determine which conference KU basketball plays in 10 years from now. People at KU care so little for football that the football program couldn't even raise the money to build the suites on the east side of the stadium in 2008 right after they won the damn Orange Bowl.

So if you wanna bail on KU football, you go right on ahead an do so. Just don't be one of the ones bitching about KU basketball not being in a major conference 10 years from now.

@drgnslayr It's taken 5.5 years for KU football to get where they're at now and it won't get fixed overnight. We saw what happened when you try to quick fix a dumpster fire with what Weis did and that burned the program to the ground. It will take 3-4 recruiting classes just to get scholarship numbers back to FBS numbers. A QB is the only thing that can boost the speed of the turnaround and that's only good for 2-3 wins per year. If Ryan Willis or Carter Stanley pan out, KU's going to be in better shape quicker.

For those wishing Mangino was still here, I was a senior at KU that year and friends with a couple of the football players and I can you with 100% certainty there was going to be a player revolt of some kind against Mangino that was going to crater the program. The Arist Wright incident was the final straw for a lot of the players on Mangino and there were a lot of players considering transferring out after 2009. Lew Perkins completely botched the investigation and subsequent coaching search and that sped up the decline. All the reports I've read about Gill is that he was a good coach in the wrong job at the wrong time. He was all about personal accountability with his players and coaches which was a complete 180 from Mangino and players and coaches took advantage of that. I personally do believe the Jim Harbaugh story because that's the only logical explanation for giving Gill a fully guaranteed $2 million per year deal.

Charlie Weis was a mistake from the get go. He never intended to be at KU long term and his recruiting strategy reflected his intention to use KU as a springboard if possible or leave after his 5 years.

David Beaty is a good hire. His salary matcges his accomplishments (unlike the last 2 hires) and his ties to KU mean he's not using KU as a springboard. He also hired a pretty young staff by offering them promotions up from their previous school or conference. They're going to go through some growing pains as they learn their new roles and they'll get better. Their recruiting strategy is what KU needs (3/4 HS and 1/4 JuCo) to rebuild their depth. A lot of young players are also getting valuable experience right now that will pay off in 3-4 years.

This is a good hire and will pay off if Beaty is allowed the time to get through a full recruiting cycle.

JoJo White, Keith Langford, Paul Pierce, Danny Manning, Wilt Chamberlain

@Lulufulu You talking all time or just single season? KU has a ways to go to match the all time (29 games, Baylor), KU's longest Big 12 losing streak (I believe that got to 27), and KU can only tie the single season streak since ISU went 0-9 last year.

@nuleafjhawk Baylor ended up hanging 66 on Lamar. I'd be shocked if they didn't do something similar to KU's defense.

@nuleafjhawk Kinner really is that good and durable. He was the JuCo POY lasy year and is living up to his reputation so far. His numbers are absolutely going to suffer once KU gets past Texas Tech because KU going to be so far behind pretty much everyone during the second half of their schedule.

I really do think KU can at least keep 3 of the next 4 competitive enough for Kinner to get 20 or so touches. Rutgers just lost at home to Washington St. who lost to FCS Portland St. opening weekend. Iowa St. still doesn't have an offense, and Texas Tech might have just as bad a defense as KU. I'm not predicting an upset in any of those 3 since 2 are on the road, but there's at least enough evidence to suggest KU can at least be competitive in those 3 games with a Baylor thrashing mixed in there.

There are legitimately some positives with this team.

Ke'aun Kinner is an absolute stud. If KU were a better team that won't pretty much always be playing from behind, he'd have a real shot at being all conference this year.

There are WR/TE's that can run good routes and catch passes. KU hasn't really had any of those since the 2009 season.

And the OLine isn't nearly as bad as many thought they would be. They've done a pretty good job of opening up lanes for Kinner and giving Cozart time.

The special teams units are much more competent than in recent years.

There's absolutely no chance KU loses a game next Saturday.

Cozart reverted back to form after a pretty good opening day for him and the defense couldn't stop a pee wee team right now.

I legitimately think this team is a QB away from being a bowl contender today. The offensive personnel of this team aside from QB (and Willis or Stanley could be that answer with some experience and development) isn't nearly as far behind the rest of the Big 12 as many (including myself) though they would be. As long as Cozart is QB though, KU is going to get throttled on a weekly basis.

I'll end with one last positive, Rutgers lost at home to Washington St. who lost at home to FCS Portland St. opening weekend. I still wouldn't bet on KU keeping it within 20, but that's at least a glimmer of hope for KU to steal one and end that road losing streak that goes back to my senior year at KU.

NNNNNEEEEERRRRRRRDDDDDSSSSSSS!!!!!!

@Lulufulu Kansas, Iowa St., and Oklahoma are all consensus top 10 teams right now and OU absolutely has one of the best back courts in the country with Hield, Woodard and Cousins. Throw in Ryan Spangler and OU is definitely a legit Final Four contender this year.

Not every outlet has the same opinion on those guys. Athlon did their All-Class teams and had Frank Mason as a 1st team Junior, and Perry Ellis and Cheick Diallo as 2nd team Senior and Freshmen respectively. They also have Perry Ellis ranked as the 5th best inside out player in the country.

Here's the full list of the All-Class teams

Seniors

1st team: Kris Dunn (Providence), Buddy Hield (OU), Marcus Paige (UNC), Georges Niang (ISU), Kyle Wiltjer (Gonzaga)

2nd team: Yogi Ferrell (Indiana), Gary Payton II (Ore. St.), Fred VanVleet (WSU), Perry Ellis (KU), AJ Hammon (Purdue)

Juniors

1st team: Frank Mason (KU), Monte Morris (ISU), Nigel Hayes (Wisc.), Damian Jones (Vandy), Kennedy Meeks (UNC)

2nd team: Bryce Alford (UCLA), Demetrius Jackson (ND), EC Matthews (URI), Jamel Artis (Pitt), Jaron Blossomgame (Clemson)

Sophomores

1st team: Melo Trimble (Maryland), Tyler Ulis (UK), Daniel Hamilton (UConn), Domantas Sabonis (Gonzaga), Jakob Poeltl (Utah)

2nd team: Grayson Allan (Duke), James Blackmon Jr. (Indiana), Xavier Rathan-Mayes (FSU), Justin Jackson (UNC), Angel Delgado (Seton Hall)

Freshmen

1st team: Derryck Thornton (Duke), Malik Newman (Miss St.), Brandon Ingram (Duke), Ben Simmons (LSU), Skal Labissiere (UK)

2nd team: Jalen Brunson (Villanova), Allonzo Trier (Arizona), Jaylen Brown (Cal), Cheick Diallo (KU), Diamond Stone (Maryland)

@konkeyDong How was Vaughn's game any flashier than Miles? Both were pass first PG's who each left KU as the all time assists leader.

@Crimsonorblue22 Donors are allowed to say what the money is to be used for and if the donations aren't used in the way they're earmarked for, donors can get their money back.

So you could donate $10 to the KUAD and earmark it for stadium renovations and they have to tell you what part of stadium renovations that money is used for or you can demand your money back.

@konkeyDong I wouldn't be opposed to Jacque Vaughn mentoring them if he was interested in moving down to the college ranks, but I can't complain about Miles being groomed to hopefully replace Howard after this season.

@justanotherfan said:

I'm not saying Gill did a good job at all. Just that keeping him probably would have been better than bringing in Weis for two years because we at least would have a full team of scholarship players. Beaty takes over a program in much worse shape than the one that Gill left.

This is has pretty much been my thinking on Gill over Weis. Gill at least made it a point to recruit HS kids instead of going for the quick fix so KU wouldn't be a full recruiting class behind needing 3 years to catch up on roster numbers. The W-L for KU is probably comparable, but who knows what would've happened with Seth Russell running the show for KU.

@Kcmatt7 The money has come first and even then it won't be an overnight process. Baylor, Oklahoma St., and Oregon all started pouring money into their football programs before there was significant improvements on the field. Zenger has a background in fundraising and he needs to get the high dollar donors to start investing in football ahead of any significant on field progress. Tell them their name (or company name) will be on the field opposite the Big 12 logos in exchange for funding the renovations to the stadium.

The KSU troll is being fed right now, and all this attention is exactly what they wanted out of this.

My cousins (all KSU grads) have been trying to rile me up with this and all I've responded to them with their band did a good job on that Jayhawk without acknowledging the Enterprise.

I do have a suggestion though to troll them back. If by some miracle KU beats KSU in football this year, our band should play the Star Trek theme while KSU leaves the field and our pep band should play it frequently during the basketball game when we're wiping the court with them.

@jaybate-1.0 Glen Rice was not a one dimensional player though. He is the all time scoring leader at Michigan and you don't do that by being a one trick pony. Glen Rice was also a multi time All-NBA player and again, that doesn't happen by being a one trick pony.

@jaybate-1.0 Kyle Korver was also the big fish in the small pond of the Missouri Valley. Same deal with McDermott more recently. Those guys were the best players in inferior leagues and got the full attention of scouts and national media.

Brannen Greene is a small fish in the big pond of power conference basketball. Because of that, he's buried on the bench without much hope of ever starting at KU. Had BG gone the mid major route, he.probably would be more of a known commodity in college basketball and have a better shot at the NBA. BG chose KU though and can't get off the bench so are going to assume he isn't good enough for the NBA if he can't crack KU's starting line up.

@wissoxfan83 Cozart tried spiking the ball before it ever got to his hands and he was on his knees when he recovered the fumble so the clock ran out.

Cozart also had two other mistakes that were at least a 17 point swing and probably a 21 point swing. On KU's first possession, KU ran a bubble screen in the red zone and Cozart telegraphed it to a waiting DB who almost took it to the house. At least a 10 point swing and probably a 14 point swing there. Then, in the second quarter when it was 24-7, Cozart took off on a scramble and like a lot of QB's, he didn't tuck the ball when he was about to get hit and the ball got popped out and 2 plays later, it was 31-7.

While there's definitely others that share in the blame (defense), those 3 plays by Cozart had the most direct impact on the outcome of the game in my eyes.

@Statmachine Because Bill Self is going to go dream killer on one of his players.