Living in Austin, I've been able to get tickets to even the KU game very easily every year. I've seen the place full maybe 3 times ever.
The worst/best was probably the second year I lived here. Both UT and KU were ranked (pretty sure both top five). I forgot to buy tickets early so figure I'd go buy some from a scalper. Instead I walked up to the box office and bought a $15 gen admin ticket and set in the front row of the upper section at not quite half court. I just shook my head.
@HighEliteMajor Coach K is -11 with two rings.
@HighEliteMajor I thought about you watching the HC game when we started the weave. Then we used it to get a wide open three! I saw that a couple of times that game. Don't hate the weave when it's getting the shots you want!
@Crimsonorblue22 Unfortunately I think it will happen again! Either that or a guy takes himself completely out of the play after assuming the shot will go in while it's in the air (see Devonte last year, The Warriors this year). Fun when it works. STUPID when it doesn't!
@DoubleDD Law of averages says the bottom will drop out at some point. KU is due for a shooting slump. I'd rather it start sooner than later. The sky is not falling and this is a good team, but the bottom is about to drop out on this shooting. Big 12 teams will not give up as many open threes. Players of higher caliber than HC's team will close out better, force the spot up shooters off their spots, and stick to scouting reports on the trey gunners.
Two not so bold predictions:
1. Greene will not shoot 89% from three for the year.
2. Selden will not shoot 60% from three for the year.
This is the basis of the fools gold comment that gets overlooked. Self in no way was trying to discount the great shooting of his players. He just didn't want them to get comfortable shooting so well. He wanted them prepared for when eventually they would miss shots.
Self does not hate made shots. He is in a constant struggle to win over the minds of young men and convince them that defense isn't as susceptible to the nasty law of averages as shooting from 21 feet away.
Ask almost any coach and they will tell you players tend to relax on defense after making a few shots in a row. It is only natural to feel good about yourself and lose a little of the defensive edge.
@ralster Great anecdote about the Self camp! Must have missed it in the past. I've only talked to Self once and he was too busy charming the socks of my mom to talk ball!
Things like "how well the KU players remember and execute to the scouting report" would likely lead to Self seeing mistakes that the above-average fan (or coach!) doesn't.
It would be interesting to know if with raw freshman like Diallo, whether Self focuses more on principles or scouting.
@drgslayr We are definitely letting it ride with Devonte and Frank. We need both. Usually on the court together. It would be devastating if one went down. But I think they are it for PGs. BG and Svi need to focus wholly on eating minutes at the 2/3 allowing rest for the three headed monster of Wayne, Frank and Devonte.
@jaybate-1.0 said:
P.S.: I am taking Frank's emerging greatness for granted.
You and everyone else! We seem to just expect that from him and then carry on when it happens. It seems the hype machine missed him this year. Let's hope he gets the recognition he deserves next.
My predictions are 4 conference losses and one more non-con (please not Kentucky, please not Kentucky, please not Kentucky).
I think we win the Big 12 Tournament. We're due.
Right now I have the sense that this is the Elite 8 team 2007 was. We can be beat by a good team in that game. Cause for the loss: undisclosed injuries (nobody beats us at 100%).
It won't be MSU that takes us down. No way we lose to them a second time.
But by March, my bracket will have KU cutting down the nets. It always does. I just think they should win it every year!
I agree Self pushed the easy button. He broke that game in the second half when he put in the soft pressure. Oddly, the pressure helped to rest our players vs. the Princeton Offense, kept legs fresh to continue shooting threes, and got a few easy buckets. @jaybate-1.0 suggested that Self uses games against the Princeton to test his players. If that's what he was looking for, they failed. It was clear they could not guard the action for the full shot clock. When KU wasn't pressing this showed, and it was clear any time HC got an offensive rebound.
On a normal shooting night, that game is tight by the end of the first half. We may have even trailed early in the second. Self decided PT and REST were more important this game than testing the manhood of his young guns. He will test them at some point! I hope they are ready!
I think Diallo isn't passing because he has been told not too. I can't remember exact quotes but I think it was along the lines of "coach says not to dribble to just turn and shoot"? I thought it was an odd comment when I heard it but he appears to be following orders. I don't think he is a selfish player.
Self has stated this team is missing a back to the basket scorer and so when CD is in the game, especially with a big lead, his role is to rebound, alter, and develop his low post scoring game.
@JRyman I thought that after glancing at the headline too!
C3 v Rico Gathers scares me.
@JayHawkFanToo I don't think they will be forced to do anything. They may indeed change their name as a handful of small schools have chosen to do (thanks for the link).
I'm yet to see the connection to Native American mascots but it's clear you do.
Almost game time! Rock Chalk Jayhawk! (Should we change that?) Hopefully some basketball will give us something different to talk about!
@tundrahok Agree S an W is past its prime! #13 is the only one that stuck with me after high school. Don't know whether it is due to the familiarity of the number or the rule itself. I still think at least that one is still good!
@Bwag Omit needless words is not a call for short hand or even shortened responses. It is a quote from a book called "Elements of Style" and can be a useful hint if writing a two sentence response, or a novel. Length has nothing to do with it! Just an English teacher reminded of his Junior AP English class. No judgement intended.
(Guess I could have just said "no malice")
@JayHawkFanToo ...and Native American tribes are military forces created for the express purpose of? Still don't see the connection. Where has there been any call for the Crusaders to change their name? Give me a link. I'll read it! I just had never heard that that was a thing.
@JayHawkFanToo I see absolutely no connection between the team name Crusaders and any of the Native American team names. I also have heard no talk of the Crusader name being controversial. Is this a conversation that has happened somewhere and I missed it?
@JayHawkFanToo What happened to keeping politics off of this board?!
@HighEliteMajor That is generally true about all statistics but I don't think that is the point @jaybate-1.0 is making. To me he is arguing that there are significant complexities in measuring the worth of bench players and starters that limit the usefulness of statistical comparisons of players in different roles. That was my interpretation.
@JayHawkFanToo Yeah, he is kinda funny! He sticks his foot in his mouth a little too much for him to be anything like Self who is so calculated in his communication with the media.
Has Marsha said whether CF is starting? I don't really follow WSU too much. Born and raised in Wichita but have trouble with the fan base and the way the coach feeds into some of the anti KU attitude.
@HighEliteMajor @JayHawkFanToo
Strunk and White rule #13: Omit needless words!
Oops. That probably wasn't necessary.
@Crimsonorblue22 I saw him retweet something the other day calling him "White Mamba." Seemed to always have quite an ego which is good for shooters but can be bad for a team. I don't wish him anything negative but I wouldn't say I am rooting for him either. Not sure exactly why he rubbed me the wrong way while he was here.
Are the shockers still without Van Vleet?
60-50 KU wins perfect game.
@JRyman I think Self would love the comparison to Pop! Barkley? Maybe not so much!
@jaybate-1.0 I think the roles of the bench players is a huge point. It often seems like Self subs them in to get something done the starter isn't doing. And if they cannot impact the game that way then back to the starter.
This seems to be the focused analysis HEM observes in Self of certain players. To me, Self has an idea of what role suits each player best based on what he sees in games and practice. He puts them in we he needs that role filled. If they don't perform that role when called upon, they miss their opportunity.
Self has acknowledged he needs to provide more opportunities but clarifies that he won't give up wins to do it. So if players want PT, know your ROLE and EXECUTE it.
@HighEliteMajor Yeah, tough to compare per minute production when the total minutes is barely 1 half of a basketball game. This has always been my problem comparing stats per minute. I know it's about the fairest way to do it but it still isn't fair. I mean, obviously Greene isn't going to continue to shoot 100% from the field.
And to me there are a lot of less obvious contributors that make per minute comparisons tough when the subjects being compared have vastly different overall minutes. Things like fatigue, slumps, competition played against (not just teams but individual match-ups), role while in the game, pace of game while playing (I know they can take care of this one with per possession stats but again not the full picture), etc. Not to mention aspects that there are not even stats for, like hustle plays, correct positioning, energy exerted, energy given to the team, good passes that lead to missed shots, hockey assists. The list goes on and on.
I know you work with the best information available to you and often do a good job of providing some of that unquantifiable context in your analysis. Don't think I am saying you don't! However, all of this data, even when taken in context, can only give a snapshot of how well a player is playing. And it would be like that picture was taken from very far away with the camera from my old flip phone. You can see it, it just is pretty hard to make out anything with clarity.
Eventually it really comes down to "the eye test" and "feel" which is why there is so much disagreement because it's all so subjective. Trying to make it not, neglects the full story. It's why some coaches can cut it and others can't. It's why statisticians can be valuable assets but do not get paid like the coach.
@RockChalkRedlock More likely he would say we don't win the game without Hunter, thereby boosting the guy he maybe should have given more minutes!
@HighEliteMajor I see your sarcasm but I actually do think they will test us. Not because of their talent, or size, or anything other than their tempo. They play one of the slowest tempos in all of college basketball. With all the talk we've had about the big guys, this game will only be a blow out if the guards can pressure the ball and push them into an up-tempo game. Bill Self will try this early. We will see the press. But if they play flat or tired or too many minutes or not focused or uneven or foul too much, it may very well end up being 60-50!
But you better believe the bigs will make sure no Holy Cross player will dunk without getting put to the floor!
Bill Self's freshman minute allocation strategy is nothing new. And he is continuing to get a 5 star or two every year. He sometimes turns supposed one and dones (overhyped) into two or three or even 4 and dones but isn't that the best case for KU? Shouldn't we want these 5 stars to hang around for more than one year?
He has always lived on late signings which has a tendency to make some understandably nervous!
@JRyman Over analyze? Here? Surely not! I'm just ready to watch some more ball!
Just read that Bill Self said, “We’re probably going to mix up our starting lineup for the Holy Cross game (7 p.m. Wednesday, Allen Fieldhouse). I don’t know exactly what direction we’re going to go.”
He also said, “Hunter deserves an opportunity. I’ve got to give him more of an opportunity. I’ve given everybody a chance but Hunter. There’s no question about that.”
Does Hunter start?
Will @HighEliteMajor go completely insane if Lucas gets the nod?
Will @jaybate-1.0 jump off the Bill Self Bandwagon if Diallo starts too early?
Does Self dare messing with the Three Headed Monster in the back court?
Could Perry start at 3?
My bet is it is Diallo in at the 5 and he loses the opening tip!
I'm so ready for there to be another game so hopefully some people can come up with something different to say!
I hope we win by 40 but it will probably only be 10 and back on the merry-go-round we will go.
It seems as if coaches and the media are having as much trouble figuring this team out as we are. They are currently ranked #2 in the AP with 1 first place vote! Who in the world put KU # 1?
I think the #7 is probably more accurate right now, but it seems like no one has really separated yet as truly elite so who knows.
None of this matters... at all... but we have to talk about something right?
@betterfireE Interesting take. To me Self has never pushed to control tempo. It seems he prides himself on being able to win either way. Jaybate as written extensively and eloquently on that topic.
Expect a lot of grumbling after Holy Cross as they currently have one of the slowest tempos in college basketball so far. Yes, KU could dictate pace and win easily but I would not be shocked if it turns into another grinder in the 60s.
Only KU fans have so much doom and gloom after a win! Predicting a 2nd round loss in December for a team whose only loss is to the soon to be number one team in the country on a neutral court after controlling the majority of the game is silly.
It's still very early. This team has shown so far they can win easily against decent teams when the play and shoot well. The can hang around with good to great teams even if they play poorly. And they can win at home against a bad team when their best scoring guard gets into foul trouble and the best scoring big is in la la land.
We still have a LOT to learn about this team. Especially as C5 starts to become CD. Truth is, it is December and we still know very little. And every other team with hopes and dreams is in about the same boat.
@HighEliteMajor I hope the depth, talent, and experience at the 4/5 will work itself out too.
I'm starting to worry that this team has started to rely on Selden and wonder if he is up for the leadership challenge. Frank is going to be Frank, but he does so much I'm not sure he has the time or energy to fire anyone else up. Self is continuing to try to push Perry in this area but I think that is a waste of time. C5 is C5 for right now. So is this team just going to go as far as Wayne can take them?
I feel like this is a really good problem to have. We have talent and experience and every game whoever produces, plays! Plus we have all these guys battling it out in practice every day. If someone gets injured no big deal. This is clearly how Self is viewing it as he said in his press conference "We have 30 fouls to give." No one should ever be "dunking on our heads" that early in the game.
If anything we need to be more worried about out seemingly deep guard lineup because it is actually pretty thin. Wayne Selden has foul trouble and we struggle. That's what the Harvard game was really about. Sure we will be a bit deeper with Greene but as has been discussed, will he bring energy and pressure D?
It looks to me that we are a three headed monster from 1 to 3 except if one head gets cut off, the other two (or one like Harvard) is stuck dragging around a thick, bleeding neck with no bite.
Current brain research says that the average person's brain is still significantly developing especially in the pre-frontal cortex all the way up till about 25. Some earlier, some later. Research also shows that learning is best done when facing challenges (playing through mistakes) but feeling successful (managing expectations, setting them up to succeed). This is a delicate balance.
So yes, Diallo and Bragg should play more. But certainly not indiscriminately. You can't just put the best players on the floor if it is not best for them. Bragg is most likely not lottery this year anyway so giving him time to grow and learn in small steps is best. Diallo on the other hand will eventually have to be put into the fire. But maybe game 2 is too soon.
@JayHawkFanToo Most definitely. But do we win more games later if Diallo would have been allowed to play through mistakes and experience pressure situations.
I think we all hope Diallo is playing the crunch time minutes by February and March (or April!), don't we?
@DinarHawk But Self's focus has always been creating tempo off of defense. Self would rather win a tight game in the 60s than win by 20 giving up 80 points. He always wants the team to run but after they get a stop and a rebound. Which bigs not named Lucas all struggled with vs Harvard.
@HighEliteMajor Great post. I appreciate the amount of thought and work that goes into content like this. I also like the focus being on Self's decisions rather than Lucas's play. Probably made easier by the fact that Lucas actually had a pretty decent game by his standards.
I agree Diallo needs to play more but have a slightly different opinion on why Self struggled to get him in the game.
You suggest he is paralyzed by his analysis of single aspects of the game while neglecting overall production. But I would hypothesize it might be close to the opposite. Self has stated many times that he rarely has a regimented routine for subbing in players. He does it on "feel". And to be honest, his feeling matched mine this game. Data may not show it and we may be wrong but it certainly FELT like Lucas rebounded better in his early minutes than any of the other bigs. To me this feeling lacks analysis and is pure gut instinct based in experience.
I was actually pleasantly surprised that Diallo and Mick got on the floor before Lucas got his shot.
If Self is paralyzed by anything it is his fear of losing. He often will rely on experience over talent because when it gets tight he plays to minimize mistakes so as not to lose as opposed to play the talent in order to win.
The question going through my head all game was, "is it better for us to win with Diallo on the bench or lose with him on the floor?" I know Self's answer. I'm still not sure. What do you think?
@Lulufulu You and coach Self. Did you catch the moment in the second half after a missed layup and no attempt at a rebound when Self yelled at Perry, "Come on! Show some emotion! One time!" I think at this point you both are dreaming if you think it will happen. Just not who he is. Doesn't make him a bad player but might keep him from being a great one.
May they be placed squarely on the shoulders of the Jayhawk players!
Man was the team tired. Frank played well because he had an entire seasons worth of experience playing tired. Frank and Devonte even said they were tired. So did Self. This game might have more to do with practice the week before than decisions in game.
This behest problem on d was rebounding. Tough to run when you can't get the ball. Diallo/Bragg combined for 4 rebounds. Lucas had 8. Diallo couldn't even get the ball to the rim before it got swatted away. He's probably never been tired before. Conditioning will improve and so will the freshman.
Bring on holy cross!
Players were tired. Self must have run them ragged in practice this week. Wonder if this is the start of some Xtreme conditioning to prepare for Shaka and UT. They've looked tired in their games too. Self wants to crush Smart for ruining a shot at a title. Who cares if we only beat Harvard by 10. Score one for Jesse against the spread. Someone could make some money using his advice!
Just to add, these are tournament wins by team in Self era:
Duke 28
UK 28
KU 27
Louisville 26
MSU 27
UNC 31
No one else is close that I could find. So if you want to argue for Roy, maybe. But any other team? Nah. Sorry I'm too lazy to figure out Cals wins separate from UK. He may have a few more since 2004.
@Statmachine Agree about those wins just looking better and better! But I doubt Self will continue to have 10-12 players contributing. He has been "lucky" so far chemistry wise with Greene's suspension and Lucas's injury. It will be very difficult to keep 12 guys who think they deserve time happy and gellin. We may end up with many more comments about players having great games despite low minutes and light box scores.
Yeah but you build or maintain a home court advantage by winning. I know we all love Ku basketball and would go to any game and scream our heads off but the reality is most fans would not be as passionate about a team who disappoints at home.
I may be wrong but hasn't Self only lost 5 home games vs big 12 opponents? In 12 years?! That's insane. That has to be wrong, right? Please someone tell me that is not true!
You can say that is proof that he has an overwhelming advantage at home and you'd be right. But the question is would the advantage be as overwhelming if he lost multiple home games a year?
Fans are fickle. Just check Kaufman stadium to see how winning makes a home field advantage not necessarily the other way around.
@HighEliteMajor The man can work a media room! No one can argue that!
Chips are good. Very good! Drgslayr will be very happy to see that jaybate thinks these guys have chips!
Maybe this is the ultimate safety move. No one is going to rough up Ben when his team is smack dab in the middle of the conference. He'll still go number 1. He could quit now (and maybe should) and go number 1.
@HighEliteMajor Withey was the best! Along with staying vertical he kept most blocks in bounds! I hope CD can develop those soft block skills.
I'm not in any way trying to criticize or be negative. It's an honest question I am struggling with. I love the mentality that he owns the paint and enemies beware: he will try to block everything! But I also see some easy buckets coming off of that. The obvious answer is balance, but if he has to lean one way or the other which do we want?