🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Is Self on the refs to watch our bigs more closely just to frustrate them? Is he doing it to check himself so that he has to play 4 guards? Or are our bigs just that bad of defenders/offenders (they get a bunch of offensive fouls while posting up)? This is a strange situation.

We have 3 legit bigs, colby is a fourth and lightfoot sometimes plays. That is 5 bodies to play at the 4/5 with most of the minutes going to 3. But these guys just can;t stay on the floor! It's baffling. Not that we should really mind, considering how well our 4 guard line up is working.

Add to that:

Cameron Indoor may be a smaller venue but has a better feel than Allen Field House.

Bucknell shirts sure are a clever way for rivals to get under our skin.

Scott Drew is a good coach.

Big cats make great and original mascots. (ie. wildcats, tigers, etc.)

It is unlikely that a player from a mid-major will have a career high when playing KU.

@ralster Jackson is looking like a one man zone buster this year! He is so far ahead of where any freshman we've had at this point. The question will be if he continues to progress and be successful when good coaches get film on him. I suspect he will because he is so versitile as mentioned above.

@drgnslayr I have a question for you. While I agree with your enthusiasm for this team, especially for where they are at right now, will Big 12 teams who have scouted the Bill Self weave for years have any better success stopping our guards?

It seems like the weave is being run with more of a purpose these days with guys searching and prodding for weaknesses and break downs, but will those breakdowns happen against teams that have seen KU try this before? Or are our guards just that much better play-makers this year? I know the big 12 hasn't really been able to stop KU for over a decade but it's just a question (or 3)!

@wrwlumpy I'm not going to put our rebounding problems to bed after out-rebounding a shorthanded Duke squad. Duke is never a "great" rebounding team, and especially when they are missing three talented big guys. But on Frank, I did worry he and Doke were going to get into a fight going after those boards. I just hope Doke doesn't accidentally squash him down in the paint on the defensive glass!

@DanR Dogs are a scientifically proven strategy for coping with loss of all kinds. Playing with dogs releases chemicals in the body that cause feelings of happiness. You can argue that people shouldn't be so invested in their candidate but I'd disagree with you there. I'd much rather people care and be passionate about their beliefs and then use things like playing with dogs to feel better when they lose, than people not giving a crap and/or posting hateful comments on facebook or wherever when they don't get their way.

@BShark I get that. And the more I think about it, the more I might put him in my top 2. He got so many extra possessions with his steals, and I remember saying to whomever would listen during the multiple games, "Don't worry. Mario won't let us lose."

@wrwlumpy I feel like Mario shouldn't be on that list as A: he didn't play at KU as a senior so we don't really have a solid idea of what that would have been, and B: he was never really the point guard. He was the point guard like Graham is our point guard now. Yeah he sometimes brought the ball up, but even more than Graham (who is the primary handler when Mason is on the bench) Mario always had RusRob or Collins out there with him.

I would replace him with Aaron Miles as he would be one of my picks. Second would be tough. I didn't see JoJo White enough with my own eyes to get a feel for him (I know I could research it) so he is out by default. I would probably go with Frank or Jacque. If I had to pick now, it might be Frank because I'm pretty confident he will triple double at some point this season and he is just so much fun to watch!

@JayHawkFanToo That definitely looked like a low blow to me. The thing I'm a little worried about is Frank's hand. He was holding it most of the game and there wasn't much mention of it. We need both those guys healthy all year to have a respectable record and definitely healthy at the end to make a run.

@Lulufulu I agree that Self could get those guys ready for that. But I would argue his main focus will be on the 1 FM 2 DG 3 JJ 4 CB 5 LL line up rather than the "small ball" line up. The other question then would be if Bragg can handle the 5 spot. I assumed the small ball line up would rotate around Lucas as the 5 so he could defend and rebound. But reports say Bragg is STILL growing, so there is a possibility he could hang at the 5.

Some of this discussion will depend on how smart Josh Jackson is. Can he handle prepping to play 1-4? As a freshman with an 18 year old brain, probably not. It's clear his max potential is at the 3 so he will get a majority of his reps there. Is he good enough at 3 to give up practice time there to work on what he would have to do at the 4? And while he is 6'8", he is not wide or heavy enough to hang with most D1 4s. So he will have to develop some coping mechanisms to overcome that weight disadvantage. Even Wiggins, probably the most freakish 6'8" athlete to come through KU, couldn't really handle defending or scoring from the 4 spot not to mention rebounding.

My hope would be a focus on JJ at the 3. Maybe give SVI some time at the 4 if we need it. But let the young fella focus on the one thing we really need him to do, which is impact from the 3. Focus is hard for for a young brain. But it is quite possible that JJ has an above average brain. People keep talking about his polish both on and off the court which might lead one to believe that he is capable of handling multiple positions. I'd be conservative though with predictions of how much time JJ will spend NOT at the the 3.

@Lulufulu No.

I've kind of been out of it for a while but has Self said Jackson has the starting role sealed up or are we just assuming that? It seems to me there could be a little healthy competition for our OAD at that 3 spot. Svi is STILL young enough to have the "potential" label, plus he has experience. The 3 spot traditionally under Self has been a 3 pt shooting role, which is apparently JJ's weak spot.

Also, last year Self experimented with Svi at point a couple of times. He definitely has the vision. The handles? Maybe not. It certainly will be interesting to see Vick's progression. All I know is that I read he shot 1000 jumpers a day or something like that.

Instead of looking at it as 2 bench players to cover 3 starter spots, I think it's more beneficial to think about it as 5 players cover 3 positions on the floor. The real question is the point guard spot. Will Self rotate Mason and Graham enough to keep them fresh or will he play them together a majority of the time forcing one or both to play BIG minutes risking injury and guaranteeing wear and tear?

@Mikey-P Wow! Great post. Spot on about the way these things tend to work. I'm one of the continuously positive people and really appreciate the defense of all the sides of the dice represented here (way more than just two). I hope this is like OSU but I think it's still a bit early for that. If their were a players only meeting after this one, the benefits wouldn't last. They still have some "stuff" to go through before they become the team they need to be!

This might be a controversial take but I actually do think the refs shoulder some of the blame for this game. I have stated elsewhere the entire team and coaches are to blame for this loss but since the refs have been mentioned, let's talk about that. First I want to make it clear that I'm not entirely positive the the reffing was UNFAIR with in this game. But compare this game to the Texas Tech game and it isn't even the same game. How can they both be called basketball? The rules were completely different! This team has been built to play within the rules as they have been called for a majority of the season and last night was something different. WVU players shoved, held, hand checked (that's a euphemism!), tripped, bumped, and everything else to prevent the "freedom of movement" we have been hearing about all year. Blame the Tech refs for calling the game so close, or the WVU refs for "letting them play" but the comparison between the two is absolutely ridiculous. This "home whistle" stuff has to stop. And this is coming from a KU fan and we get our share at home. Again, NOT AN EXCUSE, but certainly a problem.

This team needs some adversity. They rode the NCAA is out to get us up until this point with the Diallo situation, but that has lost its legs. What's next?

@drgnslayr You might look talk to Frito Lay to see if you could get a sponsorship before you go preaching chips all over the site! Can't wait!

This team doesn't have a narrative yet. What is the story this season will tell? I agree with most that 12 straight isn't compelling enough to inspire the team in the big dance because that story ends too early.

Some possible titles:

Perry Senior Sensation

Wayne Selden: A Redemption Story

Bull Dogs in Basketball: How a 5'10" Point Guard Rises Above the Rest

Cheik Diallo: Just in Time

5 Men, 50 minutes

Glorious Guards Repeat Gold

@drgnslayr If you missed the first half you might have missed Fran talking about Frank having a chip about not being 1st team all big 12. Frank has said that bothers him and he plays every game trying to prove everyone wrong. Even with that chip, players can still have bad games. The teams that have been undefeated recently (WSU, UK) had weak schedules and their bad games came against worse teams. Honestly, I'm not too upset about this game. We played the worst we have all year, were totally out hustled and out played, it was on the road, but we were still able to keep contact with them, meaning the point spread never ballooned. This should have been a blow out but we even had a small chance with under 3 minutes left. Perry showed some grit, I felt like I even saw some toughness out of Bragg a few times. This is just one of those games where you have to think NEXT. We have to make sure this was our worst game of the season. I think they will.

I'm more concerned with 1/19 and 1/25 right now. Every road game will be tough this year.

The reporter really set that comment up. I don't think it really means anything about the future of the 3 this season.

This was a team loss for sure. Blame all around except Ellis. Though, I can't remember, did he do anything else after getting stuffed bad in the second half by a guard? Doesn't matter. He was the only player all game who was strong and aggressive with the ball. Bad coaching and bad play by everybody else.

Any chance he leaves after next year? Or does he just not have the hype machine these other players do due to his original commitment to wherever it was (appalachain st?)?

@drgnslayr Do you think that is referring to post feeds? Drive and kicks? Or just drives in general? To me he seems to be really good at probing. His head always seems to be up looking for where the ball needs to go. Did you know he lead our team in 3pt% last year and is above 40% again this year. Man I love this kid. I think I like him the most I have liked a player since Mario (Chalmers not Little (though I liked him too!)).

Devonte Graham currently is averaging 0.9 turnovers per game. 0.9! Does he keep that up vs. West Virginia or will he play timid and easy bake pop tarts till the light burns out?

What has he done this year to be so efficient in this category? With Frank we know it is the ball handling. With Graham is it that, decision making, or a lack of aggressiveness?

@barney Definitely AGREE on that!

@justanotherfan Jamari has been a starter on a team that one the big 12 and got a high seed in the tournament. Bragg and Diallo are getting similar minute/gm numbers to the rest of the post players not named Ellis. So I guess we could call that "starter" level. So it is not completely different. As I said it is not an exact comparison because they are different positions and different players but their ROLE is similar. They bring experience and energy to their team NOT SCORING. Russ Rob shot 30% from three allowing defenders to sag off of him. He got most of his points driving and in transition (mostly brought on by steals by Chalmers).

I am just trying to give Traylor some credit here. He and the rest of C5 just aren't going to be stars on this team. Yet he continues to play his heart out and make big plays and some say BENCH HIM! He has his flaws as they all do, but he CAN impact plays and games in a positive way. They all can. Therefore, give them all an opportunity to do it!

@justanotherfan The same thing could have been said about Russell Robinson playing over Sherron but no one does because we won. Collins was the better offensive player by far and was a decent enough defender to win out overall. But Robinson did things that made other players on that team play better. I think Traylor specifically is a very good comparison for Robinson. I know they play different positions but their role is really quite similar. Play D, move the ball, impact in transition when you can.

I agree with @drgnslayr that the focus needs to be on our guards. We all talk about the NBA potential of Selden and the freshman (including Svi because that's what he really is this year) but isn't Graham NBA potential? He's a 6'2" point guard who is developing a shot, lightning quick, and can pressure the ball on D even against bigger players. Is it because he is skinny? Or has a youthful exuberance that doesn't fit the business mentality of the league? Frank, I get, he is really 5'10" and just not tall enough with the game he plays to really be highly thought of for the draft. But what gives on DG?

@justanotherfan But what if you've guessed wrong that Bragg and Diallo will show big improvement by March. Sure we can all see they have talent, but we have no idea when that talent will blossom into production. The reason the per possession numbers look the way they do is way more than just small sample size. It's highly selected sample size. Not by the person doing the math, by Self. He has purposefully put the freshman in when he knows (or at least strongly thinks) they can be successful. When things get tough and against tougher competition, the older more experienced guys go in. Hence, lower numbers. Mentality is the thing statistics always leave out. Momentum building plays, the ability to shake off a mistake and not let it turn into two, making a mistake then making up for it, these are all things that numbers just can't show. To me, the per possession numbers prove Self has been exceptional at not "guessing wrong." Let your experienced players struggle, build the confidence of the younger players. This has always been his style. And I like it. Not just because it wins, but because it makes sense to me.

@HighEliteMajor said:

Do you see us winning the national title with Lucas and Traylor as the #2 and #3 minutes guys in the post? That is the crunch question, isn’t it?

Honestly if we continue to improve and play at this high of a level, yes I do. We beat the #2 team in the country with a majority of minutes coming from Lucas and Traylor. They made huge plays all game long and especially in crunch time.

I think Self wanted to play Mick more vs. Tech but the refs were calling a VERY tight game (at least when KU was on D...). He had two fouls in 5 minutes and I fully believe he would have had 4 or 5 by the time he got to 10 minutes. Add that to the fact that Tech was already in the bonus EARLY, you have to put in the guys who can adjust and play without giving the other team free points.

On Diallo, I have been curious for some time if Self tells him to shoot every time he touches it. Or maybe if coach tells him to be aggressive and that is how he has taken it. @HighEliteMajor mentioned the pass out of the post, well maybe that IS why he got pulled. When Diallo is in, he is supposed to be working on his game. As @drgnslayr has pointed out, he certainly doesn't pass the eye test to help the TEAM win games. Diallo is in to develop. To work on his post moves (maybe not the 18 ft jumpers!). To become the back to the basket scorer.

As good as this team is 1-4, the five spot is at best going to be a role player. That is why we have seen so much of LL and JT. They ARE role players. They play the spot and impact out of it when the opportunity presents itself. Neither forces anything and both make other players look (and feel) better.

It is funny to me how many posters are calling for Self to shorten the bench when in past years the gripe has been that he doesn't use his talented players on the bench. How many times have people wished that he would keep 10-11 fresh bodies rust free for March, ready to play when the lights come on?

Also, @HighEliteMajor "all he has to do is win 4 games in a row." Really? Is that all? Sounds so simple! I'm pretty sure you only care about the 6th anyway!

Great work everybody! Nice morning reading for me!

When 0s equal more than 0!!!

Also, EJ vs Iowa state.

I think Perry really tried. His shot attempts were astronomical for him against Oklahoma. He had moments especially at the start and near the end where we wanted the ball in his hands every possession. I think he'll have a game this year where he takes it over, scores 30+, has double digit rebounds and over 5 assists. It may be coming real soon. He is starting to play with some emotion. I thought Self's biggest playing time gaff vs Oklahoma was pulling Perry when he did in the first half when he started to heat up. Probably helped us in the end as he had fresher legs. But I though he was going to crack it open about half way through the first.

I will put out my opinion that we definitely would not have won Monday's game without Traylor and Lucas on the roster. I really have trouble finding a way to justify the opposing view.

Bragg looked lost and scared fumbling the ball several times and committing turnovers. Diallo continues to play outside the flow of the rest of the guys on the floor. Hunter was not strong with the ball and didn't show his usual energy and did not get the deflections he often does.

Traylor had huge momentum shifting blocks plus the rebound and put back in crunch time. Landon played great in overtime, made free throws, and was always in position to both defend shots on the drive then rebound the misses (something none of our other bigs can do!).

This game meant so much more than getting to 2-0 in the big twelve. It was a must win home game against the best challenger in the conference for years. It was a game that gives a nudge to the victor come seeding time. But most importantly (yes more important than playing time for freshman) it was a win that brings a team together. A win that shows just how far each teammate is willing to go for the other. A win that shows even though Traylor almost cracked his head on one block, he would still go even harder for the next. This win built character, built chemistry, and hopefully made champions out of our Jayhawks.

If you can't appreciate what experienced players like Trayor and Lucas brought to the team that game then you don't understand the word TEAM at all. Self can tell the Freshman all season long what they need to do to get more playing time but Lucas and Trayor just showed them.

@jaybate-1.0 You are welcome! For future reference, these instances are most common right after halftime, and occasionally out of time outs. They are mostly one offs and haven't seemed to be repeated in the half even if they were successful.

@jaybate-1.0 On your point about posting guards I will add some anecdotal evidence. Late in the second half (maybe overtime) Buddy posted Mason on his own, dribbling into it and backing him down. Mason played great defense, forced a tough shot but the refs called a foul. Mason stomped around furious because it looked like pretty good defense. But this does suggest that had Hield posted a few more times, we might have lost Frank.

Second, I have now witnessed Self run a play 4 or 5 times this season (that I have noticed) that isolates Selden on the low block, posting a smaller guard. There was even one this game (it didn't work). In previous games this has had varying results. One easy layup that I can remember, another turn around jumper that went in, and a few times where the ball never made it to him, or he passed out after receiving it.

So I wouldn't say never!

On #8 I think experience is the real key to this. Less time spent teaching kids how to play and more focus on wrinkles as jaybate calls them. I bet we see more come Monday!

@HighEliteMajor A couple of quick comments/questions on these ideas.

Is quantity of playing time > quality of playing time?

I ask this because with freshman Self seems to wait until he sees that player playing the way he wants before giving them more playing time, thus promoting learning and development as much through bench time as playing time. Oubre and Cliff are perfect examples. It clicked for Oubre but never for Cliff.

I also notice Self tries to make sure freshman are set up to succeed while experienced players are allowed to fail. The thought behind that I am assuming is that a man of 21-23 years of age is better equipped to deal with adversity than a 18-19 year old kid. A stance supported by brain science and the late development of the prefrontal cortex.

Overall, good post and solid stats. But be careful not to fall into your own worst nightmare of paralysis by analysis! You seem quite focused on this one issue this season!

Anyone notice the best back to the basket score of the game? Right out of halftime Selden posts and scores easily. This guy might have some big games in big 12 play when it comes time to ride a hot hand. He's starting to figure out how to score from everywhere and is bringing energy on the defensive side. Love, love, love him at the three this year!

Franken Five played pretty well but how many minutes did it take for that 22 and 20? He was so good at one point it was almost like there were 2 of him on the court at once next to Ellis!

Hmm... I thought Wayne played well. It was his energy and focus, especially defensively, that got us off to the hot start. I think the real gift was his stroke from deep taking its setback against the cupcake in a blow out. But he was locked in early on d and had some nice hustle plays and passes to "crack it open."

Question: what happens on this board when we go 2-8 from three this afternoon because Montana was "taking away the three"?
Lol

I hope the thing that Self realizes is that this team may actually play better defense when they are scoring in bunches. If you check some of our best scoring halves they also are frequently the best defensive halves as well.

The true lesson is that this team plays well when they play confident and with energy. Making threes helps that. So does playing fast. This is looking like it could be a fun year!

@HighEliteMajor I am happy for you! Maybe slamming your head against a wall over and over again can work if you just believe! (You did see or hear he followed that quote by inmediately saying we need to score better inside, right?) Fingers crossed for you! And all of us really!

@JayHawkFanToo They are Walmart buying gifts for families. Love that they do that!

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/12/16/10288208/lebron-james-under-armor-never-heard-of-her ↗

This stuff happens early! I'm not even sure what to make of this.

@drgnslayr So I know we didn't get who you wanted to improve our guard play but do you think Miles has something to do with our back court this year? Or is it just experience?

@drgnslayr I totally agree this is Wayne's team. And it's about time! He has been groomed for this for 3 years. He has talent, size, athleticism, and is willing to make those big hustle plays all game long. I keyed in on a moment from the game while he was on the bench as a big moment in his progression as a leader. And in watching highlights and such I found another. The play where he is guarding the inbounding passer at half court. He is bouncing around doing jumping jacks 40 inches off the floor! That kind of energy is transferable. In live viewing I thought this was silly and a waste of energy. I was wrong. Everyone saw that. Saw that he was willing to give everything he had. So they did the same. We go as Wayne goes and I think that's going to be a good thing!

@BeddieKU23 On Devonte, I think his defensive skills are even better than Mario's. I heard Self talking that he would always put Chalmers on the worst player to allow him to anticipate and get into passing lanes. What is amazing about Devonte is he is being put on the TOP offensive player EVERY game. And his steals aren't anticipating a pass, or getting in the lane! He's just taking the ball from people! That is pretty amazing! You can tell at the beginning of a game if Devonte is locked in. You can see it in his face and his defensive stance. Even though we played like crap in the first half, you could see Devonte's focus on D vs. GPII. He locked him up. I haven't looked closely but I doubt Payton got many of his points on Graham. Devonte has to be one of the most annoying people to go against. He just hounds his man. Doesn't even let him get the ball. I LOVE IT!

Interesting that they kept it close with Gonzaga at Gonzaga. I think Diallo will start this game and get Hunter like minutes. Now will be his turn to show what he can do.

@drgnslayr I'm starting to wonder if Self is really on the OAD merry-go-round or not. Sure we have had Henry, Selby, Wiggins, Joel, Cliff, Kelly and Ben (kinda). But remember Joel was supposed to be a project. Bill Self said he was the number one pick in year 2 not one. Selby wasn't ready and should have stayed. The same could be argued for Henry but isn't a sure thing. Henry, Wiggins, and Ben are really the only true OAD's we have had and we technically had Ben for two years.

I believe Cliff would have (or at least should have) stayed if there were not eligibility issues. I'm not exactly sure Kelly was ready for the league either but I guess we could lump him in with Wiggins.

I think Self's strategy, whether he chose it or not, has become to get the top talent he can (shoe embargo etc.) and try to get them to stay for multiple seasons. Rush, Chalmers and Wright were all top 15 recruits who could have been considered OAD possibilities since they had NBA size. Arthur was on the fringe at 16 but some thought he could go. Selden was 12.

Diallo is the rawest OAD we have ever seen! Perhaps Self is trying to game the system. Pretend like he wants all of these OAD's but then show them they need another year. Convince a few to stay one or two years and you have a LOADED team! It's working almost as much as it isn't.

By my count, and this could be off, we have had 10 or so top 20 recruits that could be thought of as possible OAD's. Of those 10, 5 actually left after 1 year and 5 stayed 2 or more. The anomalies are Ben and Joel who were ranked in the 30s but soared up the draft boards in their one year playing for KU. Just for context, other 20-40 recruits include: Perry, Frankamp, Greene, the Twins, and maybe a few more that I missed.

@jaybate-1.0 Great read! Really interesting stuff. My favorite line is:

"Rhetoric that turns a price into a cost, and a transfer of profit into a loss of money, helps play a role in confusing things enough that the moment in the magic trick where the profit is moved from one pocket to the other gets obscured."

It's truly scary how little we all know about what is really going on with big business most of the time.

@HighEliteMajor Sorry I am SUPER late to this discussion but I just saw Davis play over the weekend. He is currently better the Diallo, no question. He only played 20 minutes and had 10 and 5. So those numbers don't jump out at you. But he is one of the better back to the basket scorers I've seen so far this year (granted my scope is limited to mostly KU games but I watch as many other games as time and life allow). He had some really solid post moves, good quick spins, nice touch (5/5) and has a big body. Self would be playing him. Now. More the Diallo. Probably more than Bragg. He has the body to really seal like Lucas, but so much better at finishing. He did have 2 turnovers and 4 fouls. But I agree, Davis is a great player and would have shined at Kansas.

I wonder though, would you still trade Diallo for Davis considering if we had Davis we would be pounding the post every possession he was in the game? Self would love watching him spin and pivot and muscle in the post so much we might never shoot another three!

I also wonder if Davis might end up one and done if he had Self's system, Hudy, and were playing for a national title contender.

Unfortunately I think a ring this seasons means we lose at least one and maybe both plus Selden.

I will say I think Wayne is starting to figure it out. He seems to be shouldering the emotional leadership role on this team (maybe sharing some with Graham).

My favorite moment from the OSU game was after Tinkle hit that three right in front of the KU bench. It was over Bragg and Wayne went nuts on the bench. A few minutes later Wayne was on Tinkle and he did not get a shot. Add that to the absolute carrying he did of the offense in that first half and the 19 second half minutes and we've got ourselves a leader. A guy with a chip on his shoulder from being called overhyped. A guy with emotion. With hops. Who dunks. And tries to dunk even when he can't. A guy who will pull others aside and say no more of this, follow me! I think Wayne's days of volatility are over. Even when his trey shooting comes back to earth.