@mayjay Also, not sure if anyone has any idea of his class schedule. I know players have to average 12 hours per semester in order to qualify as full time students but most athletes load up on summer classes, and freshmen in the first semester before prime time hoops comes along. I think this is another big reason we see players take that next step after break. Less school pressure means more ballin. Anyone know if Silvio is in 12 hours right now? Can he push some of those hours and bank on taking summer classes?
benshawks08
4625 posts
I wonder if the Doke free throw backlash has Self spooked a little bit. He was making a concerted effort to prepare for the future at the expense of the present and he got hammered for it. Sacrificing a chance at a win to better prepare for the future has never been a part of Self's style. He tried it once, we lost and he gets a ton of crap both locally and nationally. Human nature says he regresses a little bit into what he knows. Get the win first then worry about the future. That A&M game was closer than any of us are willing to admit. We were only ever a handful of possessions ahead. Even with Graham in for 40 and Silvio barely getting a peak, they got it kinda close down the stretch. I bet we see some more Silvio as time goes by and Self is able to distance himself from the OU fiasco and he feels more comfortable and confident looking ahead.
But definitely degree the kid has done plenty for us this year. Much more than I expected!
@jaybate-1.0 Left wrist break and surgery I think. I think @HighEliteMajor mentioned this could have been a great opportunity for him to work on one handed freebies which would actually improve his form.
@REHawk If it were at A&M I might be inclined to say yes but he won't want to drop another home game. This team needs to get back some of the Phog mystique. A blow out would be nice. Get the crowd going early, get the freshman big 10 minutes and some points. Unfortunately I don't think it will be that easy. Tyler Davis can be a monster down low. He's got moves, soft hands, and a motor. At least he did as a freshman. Hard to figure this team out with some really good early wins and a bunch of weird losses recently.
So a 5-5 split? I gotta have more faith in the Big 12 than that. I've got hope for WVU and Tech.
@bskeet Maybe that's exactly the point. Self already knows Doke's free throw confidence is in the basement. If doke goes 2-6 instead of 0-6 (not unreasonable considering the averages) he WINS that game for KU by MAKING FREETHROWS! That'd be the biggest confidence boost ever! Obviously in hindsight it didn't work. But as you have pointed out, it is unlikely to have hurt his confidence any more. Self gambled. It failed. He admitted it was his fault and took responsibility for the loss. We can argue the validity of the decision with the benefit of hindsight but I don't know that we can fault the intent.
@HighEliteMajor It seems this would have been even better considering his large hands. Small handed players (youngins) often need the second hand to stabilize the ball. There's no way he needs that second hand anywhere near the ball to hold it steady. It does look like he used that time practicing the baby hook and conditioning though, so I don't think he was wasting time. It's so strange because he looks like when he is stepping up to the line he is trying to get his form right (he straightens his right arm and motions a smooth stroke with just his right hand) but when he gets the ball it all falls apart.
I'm not saying it was right or wrong. I'm saying it was a decision that was made with thought and awareness of the risks. It didn't work out for this game. We are yet to see whether it will be a net positive or negative. It's a game we could have won and I agree probably WOULD have one had Mitch been subbed for Doke before we got to the bonus.
I can't say I fully disagree with the decision if it was made in an attempt to show confidence in Doke. I hope I made it clear that if it was some kind of measuring contest with Lon, I definitely do not agree with it.
This loss will not ruin our season and our chances of winning/sharing the league may have dipped a bit but are still pretty good.
@HighEliteMajor Gotta agree about Mitch. He kept us in that game the first half. Played really strong and active on both ends. Should have gone with him for the win but I gotta have some belief that Self at least knew what he was risking.
"Few things can help an individual more than to place responsibility on him, and to let him know that you trust him."
- Booker T Washington
@Big-Clyde52 Ok buddy. Just relax. Bill Self made a calculated decision. He knew his actions could likely cost THIS GAME, but he wanted his player to know he had confidence in him for the rest of the SEASON. He was thinking long term. He knew we had a two game lead in the league race, he knew Doke is going to have to shoot free throws at some point in March. He decided to sacrifice the security of winning this game for future benefits. Will it pay off? Maybe, maybe not. But it wasn't bone headed and shouldn't cause anyone to lose any sleep.
Honestly, I'll be surprised if he doesn't leave Doke in again at least one more time in conference play and likely once in the conference tournament. It is abundantly clear that KU is at its best when Doke is in the game and Self wants to maximize the time KU can be at its best. That means giving Doke opportunities to fix his freethrow situation in game. You know he's been practicing and Self must have seen at least some progress to give him that opportunity. It just isn't showing in games yet.
I do also think Self left him in do get at Lon a little bit. Self prescribes to certain myths about manhood and I think he was challenging Kruger's manhood by leaving him in there. Kinda saying, "if that's how low you want to stoop to win, I'm not going to bail you out by pulling him. You can't control what players I play when. I'm going to make you go into that press room and talk about how your team couldn't defend mine and had to resort to intentional fouling to eek out a win in your own building." If Kruger prescribes to similar myths, this may very well impact future matchups and the confidence of his team. If not, well...the #12 team beat the #5 team at home by 5. Next.
His patience in the post is ridiculous for a sophomore who is really a freshman (in both age and college ball experience). Add to that he started playing in 9th grade... The kid is a stud. I'm kinda on @drgnslayr side that he will figure his free throws out at some point. Once he gets another big to play alongside, his post to post passing will destroy teams. Keep on truckin big fella (also, keep on learning Desousa)!
@Kcmatt7 I can remember several guys improving their shot (RussRob, Releford, heck even Miles his senior year) but most of them had solid mechanics to start. TRob is a good example, I just personally cannot remember much about his form when he got here.
@drgnslayr From what I can remember Self has said stuff like players work on their free throws on their own time and we don't want to mess with mechanics mid season. In fact I can't remember a single player drastically adjusting their form in their time at KU. (Sorry Garrett, you probably are what you are as a shooter)
Also KU's small ball can really wear down Young. Our guards are going to switch switch switch on him. Everyone keeps talking about who is going to guard him but in reality it's going to be whichever guy is closest to him. KU has routinely been switching at 4 positions, almost 5 with the soft hedge and recover when screens involve the 5. OU can pick which player defends Young by simply running a quick weave or screen (see Baylor picking on Vick). So this will have both positive and negative effects. We simply won't just put Devonte on him and say go get em. However, it will mean fresh legs on him most of the game. And with Svi's improvement lately on D, all of our guards are competent defenders.
To one of your points, I would not be shocked to see someone put Young to the ground this game early (though they might save that for the Phog).
I think if most of us are honest we have had this one as well as the one at WVU circled as our most likely Ls in conference. I'm hesitant to change my mind. OU losing back to backs doesn't help in my opinion. Yeah we've seen some of how to boggle the young gun's mind but so have they. Adjustments will be made, OU won't want to drop 3 in a row, and the Jayhawks play better with people doubting them. For these reasons, I say OU by 8 tonight!
To me it makes him look longer and more athletic. Especially when he goes up for rebounds for some reason.
I was under the impression that Vick started it last year. Garrett is the most extreme from what I've seen. But I think LaCobra started it.
We heard yesterday afternoon. That's what we were told, right? If we don't hear by this morning, it will be sooner rather than later... Really, how soon is soon?
Noon?
Perhaps in a blue moon (end of this month!)?
Maybe by Saturday morning cartoons?
I've used scotch in the past but that could get expensive fast this year!
@Crimsonorblue22 14 would be in the bag and we’d be thinking 8 continues to be a lucky number (88,08,18).
Smart even had half time to work out. Nope. Nothin. At least they finally started taking the open threes.
It was almost painful to watch Texas refuse to throw it up for Bamba to go dunk against that zone! Doke was playing really high and pushing the guards out on drives.
It seemed Self even tried to help out Smart by running the lob on one of the few times Texas went zone. Almost like, here is how to beat a zone. Try it. No really, we are going to leave a 6 foot circle around the rim and you have the talles most athletic player in the big 12. Just lob it. Once. Please.
Perhaps Billy was moonlighting as an Uber driver making the vehicle a company vehicle further complicating the financial picture. It could also be argued whoever purchased the car did so as an investment in a small business (as all Uber drivers are considered their own small biz). With that in mind perhaps upcoming changes in the Tax Law will help free Billy!
As an Uber driver he likely received undocumented tips which could be construed as improper benefits. We keep hearing "financial situation surrounding the vehicle." It's important for us to explore every possible financial situation so that we can figure this out before a decision is made by KU. As far as I know, the NCAA is not yet even involved! Just think how long THEIR investigation might take!
What's the take away?
Use Lyft.
Maybe his goal is to lose a bunch of games so that he can finally overachieve in the tournament without having to make the final game. He's probably tired of all the articles in March about how KU underachieves despite nearly always making the sweet 16 and often the elite 8. He's tired of biased brackets and is hoping to fly under the radar. Petro shoe embargo dumptruck military analogy and such.
@JayHawkFanToo Yeah but Vick did make them pay. Several times in a row even. They refused to adjust. They gambled that eventually a role player would crack under the pressure of having to be the only guy to score for the whole game. He did. Vick is getting better and better, but he isn't and has never been our "go-to" guy. It's STRESSFUL to have 15,000 people to expect you to score EVERY time your team gets the ball. Even worse, when it's on short shots most joe schmo pick up players make on the reg (though obviously not over 6'11'' height!).
Another factor I'm not sure I've seen mentioned much in this discussion is how boring it is. KU did the "right" thing and got "good" looks all game. But it was the same. Every time. Basketball is supposed to be fun. And our team flies when it's having fun. Washington refused to let anyone have any fun on offense. You get an 8 foot jumper you can make in your sleep from the same spot over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Oh yeah and our defense sucked.
@approxinfinity This is what I just don't get. Why not let Svi take that shot a few times? Try to figure out who can be successful there. Maybe even let Mitch give it a go. Relying on a guy to go for 40-50 is not realistic.
Once you miss a few dare shots (I think I remember Self calling them that a while ago), confidence plummets. Everyone in the arena expects you to make that shot. You know you can, but for some reason it didn't go.
If we are going to have a player take 20+ shots. I want that to be Graham or Doke dunking 19 times.
@autohawk 40 and rainy here so...
Why I moved to Texas... At least here no one even knows it's basketball season yet. Blessing and a curse I guess.
I also agree Self probably sent them out a little flat on purpose. He was probably hoping Devonte would step up and lead in times of adversity as well as he does during times of success. He didn't. He tried. To me, he is still trying to figure out whether he should score or distribute and hasn't found the perfect balance yet. He is clearly gifted at both when he makes it a priority.
It's also interesting the new commitment Self is showing to the 3 point shot. I remember a few years ago when people on here moaned about how he loathed it and killed shooters' confidence and so on and so forth. Last night you could tell he actively put in plays desperately trying to get some threes to fall.
Overall, good game plan and execution by Washington and poor game plan and execution by KU. Even then we were down one at crunch time and one three falling for us and rimming out for them could have changed everything.
I kept wondering what would happen if we tried to get Devonte in the middle of the zone. Or really anyone else. Vick did fine several times but maybe KU could have gotten some other people involved and moving around by rotating who had all that space.
Don’t forget Embiid and Wiggins tearing it up in the NBA adds extra exposure to the young folks. Particularly Joel’s outgoing, social media savvy stardom.
@JayHawkFanToo You hit the nail on the head. You clearly defined the risks for Kansas getting involved with MU as a yearly rivalry game. The same logic applies to WSU fans, though some of that may be wearing off with them making several consecutive tournaments and upping their conference level competition. All these people touting this game as awesome (it was fun) are neglecting the fact that KU v MU games since they left for the SEC would have been garbage. It wouldn't be tough competition/top 25 level games, it wouldn't be prepping for bright lights and UK. It would have been either a ho hum blow out or an excruciating upset.
KU consistently holds up the rest of the Big 12 in basketball and has for years. So if any teams bail for more football money (fair enough, we aren't holding up our end of the bargain there), they shouldn't expect "charity" games from KU even if they are literally for charity!
As far as rivalries go, I am growing to hate ISU a bit. But I've always thought our best shot was UT getting their act together in basketball. Shaka Smart is easy for KU fans to dislike, UT fans do usually show up for the KU game at least.
@kjayhawks And don't forget that North Carolina coach couldn't win a title at KU. I'd be interested to see this same chart with KU's previous 14 appearances. We are at 28 in a row, right?
To me North Carolina is the only record on that list I would trade for ours. Those 13 conference titles aren't nothing and missing the tournament seems absolutely unacceptable (UF, and UConn). Yeah, Duke has an extra title but they get sent home early more often than we do!
Also how about the fact that KU has more conference titles than UNC and Duke combined!
The times in the bracket are likely EST and the KU game time is CST. Therefore, KU is scheduled to play at 2:30 EST or 1:30 CST giving the prior game 2 hours to finish. It won't and KU will likely start around 2:00 CST
@BShark Man this team is lucky to have Frank and Landen. What a mess this team would be without their steady leadership. I appreciate your comment, but seriously, can you imagine how much trouble these young fellas could have gotten into without Frank and Landen setting such a great example?
It seems to me that part of the "in house" discipline for the earlier incident included a probation of sorts. I.e. Don't step a toe out of line or be involved with police in anyway or face suspension. The biggest issue with this incident seems to be him not leaving his info and not telling coach. This team is doing a great job of manufacturing adversity and distractions this year. So many bad decisions.
@Kcmatt7 Good point. People say the road to the Big 12 Championship goes through Kansas, but KU usually wins it more because of the way they play on the road. Oh and not losing at home helps to!
@BeddieKU23 Heck yes! I'd rather they be learning lessons from close wins than big losses. One loss and getting some 1st place votes is never a bad boat to be in no matter how hard it may be rocking! I'm hopeful this week will be smoother sailing in calmer waters. At least in the short term.
Yeah, I'd be careful cutting down a team too far for losing to a top 10 team on the road. Now, does Huggy get a bonus for beating them? There is the real carrot, and the true indicator of a successful program! But an L @ WVU does not mean BU is a pretender.
Not sure if y'all saw Jesse's take on this issue a few days back.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article124190389.html ↗
Pretty interesting when thinking about what is really best for the tournament. I do think Self is right that 8 would be ideal. But adversity can be the chisel that creates a chip. And we all know how @drgnslayr feels about a chip!
@BeddieKU23 For sure! But what's the point of discussing at all if we aren't thinking about how to get better. Obviously Self isn't likely scouring the internet looking for what non-coaches watching on TV or from the stands think his team struggles with and then anxiously awaits solutions from the same folks. But it's fun to try and think like him, to notice things that maybe others didn't, to analyze game to game, and hypothesize on the future.
I'm generally a pretty positive guy, but that doesn't mean you only look at the positive. The real challenge in being optimistic is finding the positive in things that are undoubtedly negative. Please don't take this as a judgment on your strategy for enjoying a season, just simply and explanation of how I enjoy mine!
There is definitely a concern about players wearing down with big minutes. I wonder if Self is hoping Josh can take some of those minutes. Obviously fouls have been his biggest issue, but at the end of the Tech game, Self made a concerted effort to make sure Josh was the one initiating the offense. I wonder if in all the talk about small ball, Self is actually brewing a super HUGE line up with 1 JJ 2 Vick 3 SVI 4 Bragg and 5 Lucas! I don't even think Self would think of this as outside of the box as he basically considers there to be 2 positions on his team, little and big. JJ and to a lesser extent Svi have been utilized as both throughout this year.
Jackson must have an off the charts basketball IQ for Self to trust him as a 4 and as the player to initiate the offense. He has moved him all over the floor this year, and the kid rarely seems out of his element, or struggling to know where he should be. He has really blown my mind this year with his versatility.
@MoonwalkMafia Just went down that rabbit hole. He seems to have opinions beyond basketball. Can't say I'm surprised by that!
@HawkChamp I disagree. It would be interesting to see if there were stats for how many points we are gaining or losing on those specific plays. It feels like we are on the plus side but that just might be because I remember dunks by our players more than easy lay-ups for theirs. But even if the points are even or slightly on the negative side, I think the pressure it puts on opposing guards, and the tempo it helps create for our team outweigh the few mistakes that have happened on occasion. I like the aggressive attitude our guards have adopted that, no pass is safe. Jackson could probably tone it down a bit though.
@HawkChamp I have to disagree with you a bit on the overplays. Yes, the easy basket is unacceptable but is not necessarily the fault of the guard overplaying. With our guards and especially with the four guard line up, our goal has to be to challenge every pass and keep the ball as far away from the rim as possible. The more run throughs we get for easy buckets the other way the better. So we absolutely should be out in every passing lane.
The problem is with our help defense. Our guys are not helping the player who is out there overplaying. Or if they do, no one then helps the helper. It has to be a well oiled machine that runs mostly on instinct for the system to really work. But that's how Mario ended up with over 3 steals a game. He could afford to try and anticipate every pass because, Rush, RussRob, Jackson and the others would be there to help if he miss timed it, and the rotations were seamless as the opponent moved the ball looking for the opening. Self often praised that defense as a team that helped the helper of the helper. That's where we need to improve. TEAM defense!
Quick question talking about bigs. Is it just me, or is Jackson pretty good at posting up? Is that just Self's design, or his instincts or what? We always talked about trying to post Wiggins and Selden as big guards, but it rarely worked. What's the difference now?
I think the thing that is standing out right now about this team is the killer instinct. They showed it even in the loss with Indiana, the close win with Duke, and now against these lesser teams, they are just putting them away. The last couple of years they have struggled with that. If this team finds a weakness in the opposition, they wear it out! I think that is the result of a senior and a junior point guard playing in near perfect sync. They are just putting the ball where it needs to go and watching it go through the net. These guys will shoot above 40% from trey all year if their looks are as wide open as they have been recently.
@brooksmd I watched a replay of the Stanford game and wondered why is seemed to start mid game! This sucks!
Anyone else having technical difficulties with watch espn app?