🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Thursday's game of course. Y'all know what for.

@BShark Can Frank tell coach he backed into a car too?

It seems to me that part of the "in house" discipline for the earlier incident included a probation of sorts. I.e. Don't step a toe out of line or be involved with police in anyway or face suspension. The biggest issue with this incident seems to be him not leaving his info and not telling coach. This team is doing a great job of manufacturing adversity and distractions this year. So many bad decisions.

@BShark Man this team is lucky to have Frank and Landen. What a mess this team would be without their steady leadership. I appreciate your comment, but seriously, can you imagine how much trouble these young fellas could have gotten into without Frank and Landen setting such a great example?

i read this wrong, sorry, it says a feb traffic accident?

The court date is poor timing. Wish he'd told coach upfront so maybe the date would be different.

Bill is there to help you guys. He may scold you, but he just wants the best outcome.

Obviously these kids need to mature and need help along the way, wish they'd readily accept the help.

@benshawks08 you are right, so many distractions, so many off the court problems. I have 6 kids, the bad behaving kids get all the attention bc they need to be guided. My wife and I constantly have to redirect our attention and we choose to give positive attention instead of bad. At this time, I choose to give praise to all our players who continue to be good on and off the court, men who are great ambassadors of our program. I appreciate the like of Mason, LL, Svi, ML, Tyler Self and our walk ons. Thank you men for being good on and off the court. Heres to hoping these young men get their off the court troubles shored up.

Goodness, why can't this team have their heads on straight. Got old weeks ago.

@Jayrawks1 dwight coleby and anyone else I missed

We'll hear about this about 900 times in the game tomorrow. I guess they're too old and too big to spank them, aren't they?

@KUSTEVE your right we will hear this constantly, I'm not even going to the other schools boards today once they catch wind - -holy crap they will all be boo -hooin and sayin I can just see it now - -it will be like ONE GAME? - -ONE Game? - -oh how convienent Ku suspends him for their opening round of the Big 12 tourney - -there will be countless statement like this. - Can we just get past this pile of doo now please. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Josh is definitely learning the hard way. Watching his team and not being able to help them will teach him a few things. He has such a hi bb iq, we forget he's an immature 19 year old kid. Man are his insurance rates going up!

Editing my post, I thought this was from the other incident.. Jeez the headlines just don't stop

He better hope his draft stock doesn't go down.... Moving down just 1 pick could cost him $1.2M. Going down 2 picks would cost him $2.1M. 3 picks would cost him $3.1M. Etc.

It is a lot of money to play basketball still, but also a lot of money to lose if something were to happen and he couldn't play past his rookie contract.

@BeddieKU23 It could be what you say.....but it is also true that a transgression, whatever it is, is always worse if it is the 2nd time (or 3rd, etc) something has happened vs. an instance where it is the first.

@Hawk8086

I spoke to soon and edited my post because at first I thought this was saving face. But now learn its a seperate incident in which Josh is involved with makes this a no brainer, Self had to do it.

@BeddieKU23 Got it.

@Kcmatt7 nah, not a character issue. he can hire a driver after he's paid. 🤑

@dylans ...and maybe the driver he hires is fast and slick enough to avoid legal consequences for accidents the likes of which Josh was too inexperienced to escape?

@REHawk I was thinking avoid them altogether!

@Crimsonorblue22 said:

Josh is definitely learning the hard way.

I am afraid there is little evidence he is learning anything. And he is hurting his teammates with this crap.

I am just afraid he thinks he has Self over a barrel. Our OADs have been really good about completing their schoolwork, so they haven't hurt the KU Academic Performance Index. But any one of them could pull a Ben Simmons and cause all types of problems.

I doubt if HCBS feels he has the same range of options as he has for someone who needs KU more than KU needs him. And that is one of the many issues with having your program depend on getting those guys--once the season winds down, they no longer feel as vested but they are still as stupid as other freshmen.

@mayjay Very well said. Lots of moving parts.

@BeddieKU23 this isn't with the vandalism of the car? - -JUMPIN - - GEE -- HOSSA - -FATS. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@dylans Not a chance that he will avoid future problems off the court. If I am an NBA evaluator I'm beginning to feel reservations about staking a #1 or #2 draft status on this kid. Terrific player with major upside on the court, but a problem child awaiting legal issues outside the gym. For him to have boxed himself and the coaching staff into a post season suspension, even for one weak opponent, he has placed the program in jeopardy. Piss ant misbehaviors!

you think some people over react just a tad on some of this? - -I mean ya, it's not good but dam some people make it like the sky is falling.

I mean let's keep this is perspective good GOD, some posters here are more worried about the program instead of the person. - -He is a teenage kid -I'll ask this one more time - -name me or tell me of ONE PESON here that hasn't pulled some kind of bone head mistake during their growing up years? - If someone says me - -I call BS, All - -and I mean everyone has made mistakes in their life - -you grow from your mistakes -you learn from your mistakes - -BUT for some people who come across my worried or the program and not the kid - -is bullshit. - Everyone makes quote unquote " piss ant " decisions some time or another. There are some people I just have to shake my head at.

Boy if Henry Ford hadn't invented the car we' never have anything to talk about with Josh Jackson.

For cripes sake, it was a small fender bender while backing up in a parking lot. Although he did not leave his information at the time, he apparently took care of it but did not inform the coaching staff. A mistake? Obviously yes. Is he a poor driver? Likely. Is this going to scare NBA scouts? Not a chance.

When I worked at a gas station in my Freshman year in college...back then when gas station had attendants who pumped gas and checked the oil...there was one scuzzy looking guy that would stop by in a super beat up car and bragged how he parked near the exit of a luxury condominium high rise and waited for older drivers to exist and then drove right in front of them and got hit and settled for cash on the spot. We finally told one of the cops that used to stop by and the police eventually followed and arrested him for creating accidents

I can see how there could be people that would do the same to a guy that is expected to be a millionaire in a few months.and I can also see why Josh would be leery of that happening...and no, I am not saying this is what happened but I can understand why Josh would do what he did; I don't condone it but I can certainly understand it.

Having done my share of bone headed mistakes when young, I am not one to pass judgement on this kid that is under a microscope, something I cannot even imagine what is like. Had one of the end of bench players done the same thing, we would not have even heard of it.

@JayHawkFanToo Thank you exactly what I'm saying I mean good gosh. I got a question I just got into a discussion with my brother, about this - -is this car that Josh hit - -I does this car belong to the female KU basketball player Calvert? - - - He is saying how she shouldn't have a chance to come back, her scholi shouldn't have a chance to come back - -did this accident involve her car? - I didn't think THIS time had anything to do with her did it? - -I know the vandalism did- -but this is totally separate right? - -He said this was her car thatJosh hit - -I don't think so right - this has nothing to do with her does it this time?

On another note with Josh being suspended this game so what - Does that mean we play Vick & SVI in the starting line up, don't have much choice do we? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54

Apparently its not. A separate issue. I had originally thought this was KU/or Self caving to the media pressure and suspending him. Well technically this other issue and subsequent suspension are linked because its unlikely he would have been suspended at all if he didn't have a separate vandalism case.

Continual poor choices is now costing us a star player for a game.

@jayballer54

Separate incidents. Vick will be starting for Jackson with Bragg first off the bench and Coleby and Lightfoot probably seeing decent playing time. should be able to handle TCU short handed but a loss would not bother me too much since it provides extended rest time before teh games that actually count

KU's #1 seed is by all practical purposes locked in but you never know...a loss to TCU might give the committee the excuse it needs to shaft KU.

@JayHawkFanToo

The rest thing sounds great.

But losing to a team that has lost 7 straight games wouldn't be considered positive either

@JayHawkFanToo sounds like he took care of it after video tape Proved it was his car. It's wrong! Deserves to sit. I still think he'll learn, but I have a lot of faith in most kids.

@Crimsonorblue22

I did not say it was right or condoned it; I just said I understand it. I have no issue with the one game suspension either.

@wissox DAMN Henry Ford................

@dylans Hit and run is a little bit of a character issue... Let's not act like it isn't.

@BeddieKU23

...not unless Coach Self plays the rest of your starters 20 minutes and lets the bench go at it...:smile:

I don't think Coach Self would do this since many would consider disrespectful to the other team, even when it gives it a chance to move on and earn the automatic bid.

Good thing Embiid didn't learn how to drive!

@JayHawkFanToo If it were "just a fender bender" he wouldn't be going to court... And trying to explain it away like he was being extorted is even funnier. He broke the law. Ran. And then made it worse.

The one good thing is that at least he has a conscience and somehow took care of 90% of the issue.

@Crimsonorblue22

He would tweet from the scene of the accident...:smiley:

@wissox hahah too true!

Carlton Bragg? Please report to the front desk. Carlton Bragg.

Time for Carlton to experience Ball growth of both kinds!

@Kcmatt7

You really need to re-read my post. It was indeed the textbook definition of a fender bender. ↗. He was given a ticket for careless driving, after the fact, and like with every single ticket issued for any reason, a court date was provided. He can either pay the fine, if one is specified in the ticket, talk to the prosecuting attorney at the pleading docket or get an attorney and contest the charge.

In my neck of the woods, if restitution has been made, the ticket is usually dismissed for the lighter offenses or amended to a non-moving violation and the fine doubled for the not so light offenses; this is even done with speeding tickets, provided the speed did not exceed certain limit or was in school zone during restricted hours. Nothing new here that is not done most everywhere.

This is what I said:

"I can see how there could be people that would do the same to a guy that is expected to be a millionaire in a few months.and I can also see why Josh would be leery of that happening…and no, I am not saying this is what happened but I can understand why Josh would do what he did; I don’t condone it but I can certainly understand it."

Now, where did I say he was being extorted? I guess you missed this part...

"I am not saying this is what happened..."

I was simply relating a personal experience to illustrate how celebrities and wealthy people are frequent targets of people trying to make a quick buck. That's all.

Again, I did not say it was right or condoned it; I just said I understand it.

@JayHawkFanToo It was a hit and run for a hefty majority of people. If it was just that, a fender bender, than why did you even bring up the other examples?

You are trying to justify what he did. You can say all the little quips afterwards, "I don't condone", "I'm not saying that's what happened." But when you say the things you do before that, it nullifies that you actually believe it. You are saying it just so you don't get any backlash.

If you don't condone behavior, don't make excuses for it. Otherwise, you are actually condoning ↗ it.

@Kcmatt7

I clearly wrote I don't condone it...I don't know how I can be any clearer than that

There is a big difference between "condoning" which I don't and "understanding: which I do. You want to see what you want and not what I clearly meant in my post and that is OK, we obviously have different opinions and we should leave it at that.

10 times.

What's that?

The number of times now I have thrown up a warning that our basketball program needs to have a system in place to better monitor players while off the court.

I'm already sickened by the east coast media discounting our incredible season, with incredible players... just to beat the drum of some silly issues (except the alleged rape).

Josh Jackson.

Giving KU fans an unlikely topic to argue about since 2016.

All rights reserved. Conditions may apply. Valid only in some states. Subject to change without notice.

@drgnslayr

That would be nice...but how do you do it?

The programs has monitors in place that wait for every player at every class they take and if he misses class the coaching staff gets the information immediately. Other than that, short of having a chaperone with every player 24/7, there is not really much else the program can do; you can't really monitor a player all the time, to do so it would be not only impossible/impractical but bordering on illegal...invasion of privacy and such.

Coach Self has indicated in many occasions that players are constantly and repeatedly reminded of the rules, not only the NCAA but the school and program/team rules as well. No question this has been a trying year but I would not say it is typical of the program which by and large has been pretty clean.

Again, I understand where you are comi9ng from and what you mean but I just don't see how it could be done.

@JayHawkFanToo

The only way is to chaperone on every player 24/7. The chaperones are usually other players, like walk-ons. And there should be one player being "the mom." There has to be a structure of accountability. Schedules in writing... etc.

This is how it worked when I played ball in Europe. And we visited many countries that had different laws, customs and language. It was a bigger deal in eastern block countries. It worked very, very well!

There is simply no excuse for what has happened this year. None.

I'm willing to bet that if we don't do something about this... we will have something very very bad happen soon!

Actually.... I bet this could really HELP our recruiting (instead of possibly hurting it because of our current press). I think a lot of parents would appreciate the focus on off-court activities!

I'm surprised Josh didn't tell a teammate about the accident. I would think they wouldn't hesitate to tell him to tell coach! Those asst coaches check on them.

@Crimsonorblue22

Probably afraid that with all that has been going on off-court Coach will blow a gasket...he should know better.

Not an overreaction to be really disgusted by him running away when, at the time this happened, he was already on double secret probation for the December incident.

Our youngest son, a week after he got his license, got jammed trying to go down a gradual incline in an ice storm. Even at less than 5 mph he slid sideways on a hairpin turn in a housing development that had cars parked on both sides. He called us, really upset. I told him to put a note on the car with our number

He said he didn't need to. He had gone door to door to 6 houses, without a jacket in the storm, and found the owner. Never prouder of him in my life--except maybe when he adopted his stepdaughter.

We would have ever players to step up we will be just fine

@JayHawkFanToo upper classmen would know better!

"There are no truths outside the Gates of Eden..."

--Bob Dylan

We don't know what really happened. We have never learned what really happened with any incident. We never will be allowed to know.

Rashamon has to be updated. Instead of a bunch persons seeing a crime a bunch of different ways, the contemporary version would be a bunch of persons not knowing what happened in a bunch of different ways!

Whatever happened, he misses a game and we have field a 6 man rotation, or play rubber knee Coleby in a 3-2 hi-LO, or Lightfoot in god knows what.

Hrrrmph!!!

The one thing that concerns me with the game tomorrow afternoon with Josh being out - -more if we hook up with TCU - -seems like they were working us over pretty good on the boards for a good portion of the game, and I think this is where we are going to miss Josh - him being our 2nd leading rebounder that, and top of that if TCU plays that zone Josh is a pretty good at distributing the ball out of the middle - these will be things we will miss matching up against TCU tomorrow I believe. We are just going to have to have either Vick or Bragg or both step it up tomorrow, should be ok as long a we just don't let Williams, Broziosky , sorry hell I can't spell it, but you get the drift and Robinson go nuts. - -ROC CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer54 josh didn't play much the first time we played them, foul trouble. We'll step up!

@KUSTEVE Shit yes Jethro-they'd hit back !

Josh was driving a "friend's" car. You think one of those friends was a teammate? Just guessing.

Or maybe it was a "runner's" car -- maybe McLemore's "runner?"

The KC Star is plotting its next move.

@mayjay great character shown by your son!

‪ http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18859472&sf61154783=1‬ ↗

Some clever detail to this one. Had a few laughs reading that one including the suttle jab to Mizzou at the bottom:laughing:

Front page of the Star today!kc_star.jpg ↗

@REHawk: "Not a chance that he will avoid future problems off the court. If I am an NBA evaluator I’m beginning to feel reservations about staking a #1 or #2 draft status on this kid. Terrific player with major upside on the court, but a problem child awaiting legal issues outside the gym."

BOOM LOWERING by The Coach!

Gulp!

Watch out, Josh!

Coach's are often right about this. This part of coaches is experience AND instinct. They're like well-trained bird dogs. When they go on a hard point you've got to trust the bird is there.

Go to a therapist NOW, while you still have a chance before the SHTF.

Rock Chalk!

@drgnslayr

You've been on point about this for awhile. Kudos.

He made a mistake which he is paying for. He acted, once again, very immaturely. No argument there. Glad that Mayjay's son did the right thing - our son ( Josh ) didn't do the right thing, and has to sit out a game.

@KUSTEVE

and could subsequently lose a game because of that mistake.. hope the guys rally around each other today

@jaybate-1.0

Pro teams care primarily about what the player will do on the court. If you don't think so I have two words for you - Tyreek Hill - apparently the fans don't care much either. Compared to what Hill did, Jackson is the proverbial altar boy.

Last night the Baylor beat writer was on 610AM and indicated that Jackson's game most closely resembles Kawhi Leonard, the player many believe to be the best in the NBA. A player with that potential will not be ignored.

Yes, what Jackson did were boneheaded mistakes of an immature teenager. Will they jeopardize his career? Absent any other big issues, absolutely not.

Early in the season Josh showed his immaturity in getting T'd up all too frequently. Then you listen to him in the post game reports and he sounds very mature, very collected. Then he crashes a car a panics like an immature kid.

What I see are growing pains. I feel he is maturing, but another year in college would do him wonders in the personal growth area. As a basketball player he is ready for the league.

Michael Beasley was extremely immature according to those who knew him. Unfortunetly with all his talent he was unable to get his head on straight and never flourished. I feel Josh will succeed, but Michael is a precautionary tale.

Has this created the opportunity for KU to lose today and not be penalized a little bit by the selection committee?

Is there someone thinking.... "we only have 7 tournament-capable players so we don't need to risk an injury?"

Inquiring minds want to know.

The only thing I see is Frank Mason. And I believe he has taken my mantra "Done Losin'" and has run with it.

I'm looking forward to today's game. This is an awesome opportunity for Frank and Devonte to reunite as two leaders on this team. I see this as a growth opportunity for both. There is a very good chance we lose Josh in a game or two at sometime in March. Foul trouble is quite possible for Josh. He still shows signs of being a freshman and the pressure is just about to go up.

@drgnslayr has created an opportunity to throw a well oiled machine out of rhythm.

@Blown

Absolutely! And we need these tests. Like I said, it is very likely we will have to go without Josh for chunks of games in March. Time to see what this team is made of.

@drgnslayr

Good question. I don't think we'll get any sympathy if we lost today, coach chose to suspend him.

I'm looking forward to today's game but I'm nervous at the same time. TCU played us tough this season even with Jackson. The first meeting Josh was in foul trouble, KU still won. 2 things happened in that game where Josh only played 13 minutes- Landen had a huge game 15pts-17rbs, Vick had 17 off the bench.

Vick will start today but there goes our guard depth. So now someone on the bench (Bragg, Coleby, Lightfoot) will play extended minutes leading to more traditional 3-2 offense. It's likely Graham & Mason play near 40 minutes because there's no choice. Maybe not a concern today but what about if this team wins today and tomorrow. At some point legs will be a concern. Defensively TCU runs a lot of double stack ball screens which create mismatches on switches. Defense is where the game is today..

.

T minus 16 minutes until I officially start not getting any work done for the next month.

@Blown

was just thinking that as well.

productivity just left the building

@drgnslayr I don't think we lose the number one seed if we lose today. The committee looks at the body of work.........historically hasn't penalized teams too much for losing in the conference tournament.
I believe that we have lost several times in the conference tournament and haven't lost our number one seed.
And I do think they would take into account that we played without Josh anyway..........I think they have made statements about players being injured, etc. in the past.

@Hawk8086

I agree. But it helps that your star all-american has to sit. It makes a perfect excuse to lose and gives the reason why.

@drgnslayr THIS TEAM WILL NOT LOSE AGAIN THIS YEAR, PERIOD.

@Hawk8086 I agree. Though I do think we are at risk of losing the number one overall if we lose today but we will still be on the one line.

@KUSTEVE I would love for you to be right! Man that's a lot of wins if you're talking calendar year

Espn already saying unc #1 over all

@Crimsonorblue22

LOL

If not UNC, I'm sure it would be Duke then Kentucky

@KUSTEVE said:

@drgnslayr THIS TEAM WILL NOT LOSE AGAIN THIS YEAR, PERIOD.

Unless they have to play WSU. :laughing:

@BeddieKU23 said:

@Crimsonorblue22

LOL

If not UNC, I'm sure it would be Duke then Kentucky

......I....don't even....

@jaybate-1.0 HA! Right on, jb. I have been there. Have experienced full impact of wayward athletes who forfeited opportunity via poor decision making. Nothing can turn a coach more sour, teammates more dejected. Thirty years after the fact I yet can barely stomach the situation.

@KUSTEVE

Hey... I'm with you!

DONE LOSIN'!

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/bill-self-has-earned-trust-but-his-kansas-program-isnt-immune-to-scrutiny/ ↗

@BShark Maybe you should expand your horizons from the Kansas media. I think it would help you clear your mind.

Just won't go away....

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18925546/josh-jackson-threatened-beat-women-player ↗

The thing that stuck out to me in this case is the fact she told police he said this on Jan 30 when the incident happened on Dec 9th and the other two witnesses don't mention Jackson saying that. It will definitely be interesting to see what comes out in court. You can definitely tell the difference in reporting between the LJW and the KC Star just by reading the articles about the case.

I hope she signs the f ing waiver so KU can tell the whole truth.

@Crimsonorblue22 Daddy & Ms Calvert have been spinning this 💩 for months now the ⭐️ just keeps on publishing. Trash begates more trash. Trust me, they'll all shut up 🤐 when the price is right. Bullshit walks & 💰 talks. That's why they're still hangin round-waitin for that Escalade...

@globaljaybird

I think you are right on.

In normal situations... I typically stick up for women. But when they go out and cause trouble, they are on their own, just like a guy would be if he did the same thing.

So this player is in a bar and throws a drink in Vick's face. Really? And he and his pals should just take that because she is a woman? No way.

Now she has a problem because she alleged she was threatened. So now she wants to be treated as if she is a lady when she instigated all of this by being trash. She can't have it both ways.

If the story was different.... a nice young lady just stepped out of church and is accosted by one of our players... threatened and her car damaged.... yeah... that would be a huge problem.

@drgnslayr I feel like I can validate this since I am a girl and I'd certainly stand up for women's rights. Things don't add up here and Ive heard to many things against this girl.

@Crimsonorblue22

I only had one sibling... a sister. Between her and my mother I was raised to respect women. And I do. Neither of them would be throwing a drink in a man's face at a bar. And I'm sure there were other things involved here, too... bad language and pushing and threats.... all the way around.

At a certain point I lose respect. Doesn't mean I would hit or threaten her or kick her car. I wouldn't. But once I've lose respect then I'm neutral on my chivalry.

This girl may or may not have a case. But what is clear is her and her dad have no empathy for Kansas basketball fans and the program. They could have done all of this in a way to minimalize the damage to everyone not involved in their case but it is clear they don't care.

@drgnslayr My gut feeling is they'll take money from the source (Josh) because that will be easier to be successful, then sue the university for some type of discrimination, keeping it in the news with all the public pressure & neg publicity on KU. I think it's rather obvious that is their legal plan going forward. This continual media onslaught may all be part of their legal posturing to try & milk KU. After all, she's not a very good player so unless she gets a degree her earning power likely will be nil. IDK all the circumstances here & hope I'm wrong, but this whole situation reeks of the mentality of a "perpetual victim". Josh was clearly wrong as hell, but sounds like missy didn't exactly shy away from the spat either. JMO

@globaljaybird

This situation is pretty complicated because the claims by this woman and her dad are all over the place. They are talking about a violation of Title IX, right?

If that is the case, and if they take that path it is completely different than a civil case with Josh. And there is no reason to think they might not go after more than one path.

What is clear is they feel like "victims" regardless of what she did in this. And it is clear she participated in elevating this situation.

@drgnslayr good points @globaljaybird I think alot depends on the initial report. They say something else bad every other week it sounds made up. She could very easily be charged with assault for throwing​ a drink in Vicks face. In regards to the mistreatment, I think a judge will get a good laugh outta it. Her minutes didn't drop til 11 games after the incident. She her self has had some issues as well I'm sure JJ lawyer's have a pretty strong case to just pay for the damage done and move on instead of acting like a 3 year.

I have a question and hopefully someone has the answer. Since these events took place well outside the campus and KU control and while students were on their own and not in any official school event...does Title IX even apply?

@JayHawkFanToo good question

@drgnslayr

It's a sad situation. This is where society has gone today.

I like what Zenger did by saying sign the waiver and we'll talk because clearly everything being printed negatively about Jackson and the University is not the whole story.

The affidavit also made things seem a lot more clouded then once thought. It makes me think Jackson's lawyer is going to have a lot of ammunition to get whatever charges he's facing dropped.

This father/daughter are clearly nut jobs at this point. We've seen enough put out there to challenge the credibility of their mental thinking.

Regardless, this is going to impact Jackson's draft stock which I think is part of the ultimate end game for these people. They know he's a star going to the league and no matter if this is dropped or not teams are going to be putting up possible red flags on him. You'll see news articles online heading into the draft talking about "possible red flags", "Jackson must ace interviews to put behind off-the-court issues" etc, something like that. ESPN will run with it as they have every pathetic headline the Star releases without actually fact checking them. ESPN is hurting just as bad as the Star is financially. It's a good lesson for the University, Bill Self and especially Josh & Vick that everything they do is under the public eye..

@JayHawkFanToo I thought that the issue is how the 2 were treated by the Univeristy......they are claiming she was treated harsher than Jackson.

@Hawk8086 the question is, how many priors did she have before this incident? If she signs the waiver they can address the punishment. Each coach can punish how they see fit. KU is bound legally, dad is flapping his jaws knowing they can't talk about her priors unless she signs. Each game we win the ⭐️ And dad will add to the story. Dad is to busy to talk to SZ but can run his mouth to the ⭐️

@Crimsonorblue22

Exactly we'll see a story Saturday, next Wednesday etc..

This about sums it up

Oh and worth mentioning, the cops found tail light pieces by her car after she had left/moved. Soooo it's quite possible that she did it herself to cover herself a bit.

The whole thing just smells of BS.

@Hawk8086

How exactly was she punished harder? She was initially suspended and the suspension lifted shortly after and she did no miss any games. She continued to play extended minutes (contrarily to what she said) for a while and even tied her season high minutes long after the incident; her playing time decreased once her game went south in conference play. In fact, one could say she was not punished at all. The LJW had an excellent article with actual numbers that absolutely destroyed her case.

My question still is...does Title IX applies for events outside campus and when the individuals are in their own time and not in any school sponsored or associated events?

@JayHawkFanToo Why wouldn't it? It is a statute addressing the treatment of men and women at universities. If the university takes action based on events outside campus, it is the action taken that is in the purview of the law.

Relationships between students arising from their status as students have a direct effect on their ability to succeed in school. That is why Title IX gets into those things--in the extreme examples giving rise to this concern, abusive behavior off-campus can prevent someone from attending. Schools have an interest in keeping their students safe, and for too long schools ignored reports of gender violence. Witness Baylor.

This is just an off the cuff answer. I do not guarantee 100% accuracy! Do not quote me!

@mayjay

But...the individuals in question were not on campus or under any control of the university or in any shool sponsored function and they were not acting as students or school representatives but as private individual at a private, off campus location. It would seem like a huge overreach to apply Title IX to apply under these circumstances.

If this applies, where does it stop? How about a guy and a girl that don't know each other get into an argument at a bar at the Power and Light district in KCMO and later they find out they both attend KU, should a Title IX apply? How about if they attend different schools?

It would seem to me that this starts a slippery slope of government overreach and intrusion into private affairs by forcing a school or schools to intervene where the local law agencies would be the logical recourse.

It appears to me that the girl that started the entire episode is desperately trying to justify her own misguided actions born out of jealousy and extend her 15 minutes of fame and her angle appears to be leverage against future millionaire Josh Jackson and wants to use the school to further her personal agenda. Just my opinion.

Here's what has been said by the 3 female players that line up so I'm inclined to believe these parts. Vick was at Yatch Club with Jackson and some girls (his new GF), and as Calvert and her friends were leaving, she went up and threw a drink in Vick's face and left. Jackson followed after them and Calvert and Jackson were chirping at one another. They were still chirping at each other as Calvert tried to back up. Jackson then kicked her door and broke the tail light That much has been corroborated by all parties involved so that is what I'm willing to believe since there's multiple witnesses with the same basic story and is 90 of the story.

The other 10% is Jackson threatening to "beat her ass" and Calvert is the only one who said that. Neither of the other two girls involved mentioned that so unless Jackson said it very quietly, and that doesn't line up with everything else out there, I'm not too inclined to believe that part of the story.

Here's what I think happened based on what's out there. Vick and Jackson, along with Vick's new girlfriend go to Yatch Club, later in the night, Calvert, and two of her teammates decide to go there as where, probably not aware that Vick is there with his new GF. When the girls get to Yatch Club, Calvert sees Vick with his new GF, Vick sees her and starts rubbing it in/taunting Calvert. This pisses Calvert off and as she's leaving, she decides to do something about it and throws a drink in Vick's face. Vick was probably going to let it slide because he had made his point already. Jackson decided he wasn't going to let it slide so he follows Calvert outside and he and Calvert get into it verbally. Manning-Allen is trying to calm Jackson down while Calvert's roommate is trying to get Calvert out of there.

I think Jackson and Calvert are equally at fault for this situation because they're both pretty hot headed individuals. Vick was being an ass that night to Calvert showing off woth his new GF with her watching and Calvert's teammates did nothing wrong as they were trying to keep two combustible people apart as best they could.

I think the situation was handled about as well as it could have been by the outside parties involved. The stories pretty much confirm Jackson messed up the driver's door and taillights while other did the rest of the damage to Calvert's car.

Calvert is lucky Vick chose not to press charges against her for throwing the drink in his face, amd Calvert's dad just needs to shut the hell up.

@BeddieKU23

"This father/daughter are clearly nut jobs at this point. We’ve seen enough put out there to challenge the credibility of their mental thinking."

I can understand their desire to get her car fixed. Anything beyond that is pure opportunism. They see he is months away from a 7-figure paycheck and they want some.

I don't think what has happened so far will really damage Josh's future. At least, not for basketball contracts. I doubt it will even hurt his endorsement potential unless he continues to get in trouble. We forget he is just a kid still. He was new on this team and he was sticking up for his bros.

This all is very petty compared to other trouble players around the country have gotten in to.

@kjayhawks

"I think a judge will get a good laugh outta it."

Back in my day I bounced at several bars for 7 or 8 years. We had to deal with this kind of stuff all the time.

As far as the threat from Josh to "kick her ass".... from my experience, judges basically treat someone who only verbally threatens someone outside a bar as a hero. It is obvious there is big time stuff going on when outside a bar, and to limit it to verbal yada-yada is a positive versus violence or other crimes. But my experiences with this dates back to the 80s. Times have changed...

@drgnslayr Ya if we start arrest folks for saying they'll kick someones a$$, we need much much more prisons.

@kjayhawks Technically what Josh Jackson did could be classified as harassment which is illegal. I'm assuming jail time isn't a penalty, but probably a fine, probation, and anger management or stuff along those lines is probably the common punishment.

Why is this thread still going? Kill it!

@Texas-Hawk-10 be nice if the whole story came out. She started it and ran her mouth. She's not a very nice gal! I hope the whole world find out about her.

@kjayhawks said:

@drgnslayr Ya if we start arrest folks for saying they'll kick someones a$$, we need much much more prisons.

When it is accompanied by kicking the hell out of the person's car, while that person is in it, the courts might take it a lot more seriously.

Communication of a conditional threat like this (if one occurred, which is only alleged by one of 3 witnesses) is always treated more seriously if it occurs under conditions where it is more likely to occur.

For example, if I say to my brother who is 1050 miles away, "Say that to my face and I will beat your face in," no one will consider it likely to occur. But if I say in his presence, "If you stand up, I will beat your face in," then that is likely treated as a more likely, i.e., more serious, threat, and would be more deserving of possible charges.

An interesting aspect to the alleged Josh threat is that if it occurred, Calvert's friends either did not hear it (not in their statements) or did not think of it as a statement of actual intent to harm, since by all accounts they tried to physically stop Josh from attacking the car. If I heard and saw someone his size in full rage mode promising to hurt someone who was in a position of relative safety, I would think twice about confronting him lest the anger get turned on me.

Just like the amount of damages, I think the police did not believe that statement could be proven in court. Otherwise, I cannot imagine why they did not charge him with an additional count, which in many places would be communication of a threat or in some, terroristic threats. (Not the international type -- this is the type that means intentionally scaring the hell out of somebody.)

@mayjay true but I'm not buying it highly doubt a judge will ether. All of the sudden 3 and a half months later "he threatened to beat me up". I wish the news outlets would stop with publishing one side of a story that nothing has been proven besides her throwing a drink and him kicking a car. But it goes in tune with the media these days. If a person watches the news they are misinformed most of the time that's​ why I don't watch the junk. It always about rumors or some sort of conflict proven or not.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think the affidavit provides enough of a picture to figure what happened which is that Lagerald and Josh were out, Lagerald was there with his new GF and when Calvert and her teammates arrived and were noticed by Lagerald, he started rubbing his new GF in Calvert's face which ticked her off so at the end of the night, she threw a drink in his face as retaliation and then Josh did want to let it go. Basically, it was 3 people (Calvert, Jackson, and Vick) being immature about the Calvert/Vick break up and is something that is a fairly common sight when you have kids and alcohol mixed together. It really isn't the big deal that the media has been making it out to be and Calvert's dad really is the only reason this story is still going.

@Texas-Hawk-10 as usual I agree with you lol. No I don't think what JJ and Vick did was smart whatsoever but stuff like that happens daily with a bunch of college kids. It's​ crazy to me in hindsight that JJ kicking a car in anger has gotten 200x the media attention as Rasheed Sulaimon being accused of sexual assault, twice.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I'm not so sure he was being an ass and showing off his gf unless you know something. It doesn't take much to set this girl off.

@Crimsonorblue22 Based on the affidavit, after Calvert and her teammates got there, Vick allegedly kept intentionally looking at Calvert while dancing and making sure Calvert saw it, and I believe two of the three girls mention that. Vick did nothing illegal or criminal, but it sounds like he was showing off his new GF and rubbing it Calvert's face which is what set Calvert off.

Calvert's comment in why she threw a drink in his face was, "he knows why" fits that version of the story of Vick being an ass towards Calvert that night by flaunting his new relationship in front of her.

18-22 year olds can be very petty and I think Vick was being petty that night based on reading the affidavit and that's what set Calvert off that night.

This is way too much Dr. Phil for me for one day. Looking forward to the good games tomorrow.

@Texas-Hawk-10 if Calvert said it I wouldn't believe it! I went back and read it.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Interesting that she was so upset about a new girl friend of a guy who allegedly hit and kicked her the year before.

This explains a big mystery. I think the reason nothing came out of it except for a "likely he did it" finding is she probably refused to testify in the University proelceeding. Assuming he said nothing, they must have based the finding on a written complaint. With no rebuttal or additional info, they can make that finding but could not go much further than the probation recommendation. Daddy was probably upset at the outcome knowing something happened but unable to do anything if she wouldn't go forward or to police.

Well if you want to get pissed off again, Stu Gotz is going to go on blast at Bill Self/Josh Jackson on ESPN radio on Monday morning. I normally enjoy his ill informed rants, but this one is going to piss me off. He's just a hot take gomer, but I can tell you already if I hear it I'll be pissed. And that's too bad as he's normally very entertaining.

Operating on the information we have -- which is a very important premise for me -- am I reading this correctly? This is not a "big deal"?

Come on. Let's connect with reality.

As a starting point, let's assume this young lady is completely irrational. Given that, is it not a big deal that Jackson followed her out of the club, kicked her car three times, and told her to get out because he was going to beat her a**? Who here has ever done that to a woman in their entire life? What planet are we on?

No denials of the facts have ever been made.

Assuming that to be true -- what Jackson did -- give some conceivable circumstance at the Yacht club that would justify Jackson doing that? That's where the apologists are missing it. Again, operating on what we know.

Given the affidavit, if the prosecutor believed it to be true, Jackson could have been charged with assault under Kansas law -- placing one in fear of imminent bodily injury. Prosecutors probably didn't charge it because she was inside the car, but they certainly could have.

As I said when this came out, Jackson should have been suspended 2-3 games. That eliminates the edge on the story -- that the athlete was not punished for his actions.

That all said, I'd also mentioned a few weeks ago that Calvert should be charged with battery re: throwing the drink in Vick's face. Given the entirety of the incident, I think she should have been charged.

And some "wouldn't believe" Calvert. Ok, but have we heard anything that indicates anything she said is not truthful? From any source? There is a difference between her being troubled and the statement being untruthful.

Again, there has been no dispute on the facts. Meaning not even a denial.

I'm as anti-KC Star on this as anyone else, but because of the sensationalistic and biased nature of their reporting. Not because this isn't a "big deal." This is a big deal.

When I said 2-3 games when this story came out, I didn't know of the "get out and I'll beat your a**" comment. Easy 3 game suspension.

That all being said, IF the facts really are different, and Calvert and the witness are just dead flat lying about Jackson kicking the car and the beat your a** comment, I would change my position immediately. Operating on what we know.

@mayjay - I think you may have solved that one. That does make the most sense.

@drgnslayr

It is all petty but he'll have questions to answer that other Top 5 picks don't have because the headlines have been construed in a way to make him look guilty. While he's admitted guilt and done his part to close this case the Calvert's have gone off the deep end and won't let it go and every single media stream has run with it. I doubt it will cost him much but it could.

The "beat your a**" comment wasn't made by Calvert until months after the incident. And she's the only saying that he said it. Hmmm yeahhh

Calvert is the only one that said josh was going to beat her ass. None of the witnesses said that.

@HighEliteMajor

I generally agree with your statement but you are using facts not in evidence to make your more serious point. The statement about a Jackson telling her he was going to kick her arse is not part of her original statement and came out 2 months after the event when the father became involved. The two witnesses, who happen to be her teammates, did not mentioned this at the time or now, so this appears to be pure uncorroborated embellishment on her part to make the incident more serious than it really was.

This is reminiscent of the woman that accused Bragg of pushing her "down" the stairs when in reality, and as shown by the surveillance video, she was trying to hit him, bounced of his arms stretched in a defensive position and fell on her rear end all of 15 inches on the stairs going "up" and quite different than being thrown down the stairs and she was rightfully charged and the charges against him dropped.

I am not saying that Jackson acted right; however, he is still entitled to the presumption of innocence until proved otherwise. Let's not pile up on Jackson for (so far) unproven and one-sided allegations...we already have the Star doing just that.

@mayjay

"When it is accompanied by kicking the hell out of the person’s car, while that person is in it, the courts might take it a lot more seriously."

I'm not certain about that.

What I do know is a person with a felony record is treated different and a simple verbal threat can be a lot of trouble for that person, especially if he/she has a record showing known violence.

From what we know... Josh just doesn't fit in any bad scenarios concerning this case and the possibility of damaging his career.

This will all blow over.

this whole story is just #fakenews :smiley: Not to diminish the incident but she's making accusations months afteer the fact that apparently no one else heard not even her own witnesses are backing that up. That's all I really need to know. And in the event that he did say it, i'm sure we're all guilty of saying something in the heat of the moment that we wish we didn't. Making a drunken threat is not the same thing as actually following through or even saying it with any intent.

@HawkInMizery said:

Making a drunken threat is not the same thing as actually following through or even saying it with any intent.

I'm surprised. Suppose he made the threat and suppose he kicked and damaged her car with her in it. Isn't that "following through" to some extent, or at least "showing intent"?

I can't believe some folks here have such a hard time imagining what a traumatic experience is being affirmed here: NBA-level athlete follows girl to her car, berates her, stops her from backing her car out and damages it with her in it - apparently abetted by a small crowd! Man, put that in a film and I don't want to go see it.

OK, what is being affirmed may not be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Fair enough.

That doesn't allow us to belittle the seriousness of what is being affirmed. Saying "if he said and did all this, so what?" is not a valid defence in my book.

We have been witness to the fact that Josh exhibited anger management problems early in his games in a Jayhawk uniform. Obviously, he has learned from the consequences, responded positively to counsel of the coaching staff, and gotten control of the way in which he responds to perceived injustices by officials. As to his multiple offcourt infractions, especially bringing to light his seemingly violent reaction to a female fellow student and athlete, more extensive guidance appears to be necessary. Josh is very much in the limelight during his brief tenure in Lawrence. Among a handful of the very best recruits ever to don a Kansas jersey, the kid continuously shoots himself in the foot while casting blemishes on the program which nourishes him. That said, I like the kid. Overall, his public disposition has always appeared to be very pleasant, at least when he is suited up for games...and since he has grown away from conflicts with officials. I view him as probably the best basketball talent to play for Bill Self at KU. But I suspect that his troubles are not over, esp. off the court, and that we will read more news of legal troubles for him as time goes on. In a 3 or 4 month span he has hauled plenty of grief upon his young shoulders. Hopefully, the key word is "young," and he will have learned enough from untoward actions and subsequent consequences while a college freshman that he will be able to survive the life of an NBA millionaire without further harm to himself or those around him. His adoring fans will wait, with more than a little concern. After all, forever he will represent Jayhawk Basketball.

@ParisHawk Josh didn't vervally berate Calvert. Calvert threw her drink at Vick, Josh called her out, and the Calvert and Jackson has verbal back and forth.

There's too many people ignoring the affidavit and making their own facts up. Based on the affidavit, there were 3 crimes committed that night that are corroborated by the 3 witnesses. Calvert committed battery when she threw her drink at Vick and that's tge incident that triggered the rest of the events. Jackson committed harassment when he followed Caovert outside and got into the shouting match with her, and Jackson committed property damage when kicked her car. The police only chose to pursue 1 of the 3 crimes committed that night and yet Calvert wants to complain about not getting equal treatment.

I'm not going to say that Calvert brought this on herself because Jackson was clearly in the wrong for damaging her vehicle, but by all accounts, Calvert was the instigator in this case and helped elevate the situation instead of just walking away.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said:

Josh didn’t vervally berate Calvert.

How do you know? The claim was he said he would beat her a**.

Don't change the subject. I said IF everything Calvert claims is true, it's serious.

Saying some of it isn't true is fine, but irrelevant to my point.

@ParisHawk The police affidavit has been released so I'm not pulling stuff out of thin air. Calvert is the only one out of 3 people who have given statements claiming Jackson said he would beat her ass.

What's corroborated by all 3 is Calvert threw a drink in Vick's face, Jackson followed Calvert out and they had a shouting match with each other, and Jackson kicked Calvert's door and taillight.