🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@JReyn

"If you want to blame it on injuries, I’d say Self was kind of willingly blind in that regard too. Greene OBVIOUSLY shouldn’t have been playing. He contributed jack squat down the stretch, and Self never once pulled him aside and said, “Hey, dude, your shot is crap and you can’t slide to the left or right. Something hurting?” Would another coach have noticed that and played Svi more? Who knows."

Good dig!

Or maybe since Bill sees the trey ball as "fool's gold" when BG started clinking the rim maybe deep down in Bill's head he was saying... "see.... fool's gold!"

Makes you wonder what would have happened if BG hadn't been hurt? What if he had stayed on his hot streak? Would Bill still have canned it for the hi/lo pathetic offense and Bad Ball? Would he have gone against his own words of discounting the trey and started counting on the trey?

I'm mixed about what I think he would do. Bill is a competitor... so I don't see him turning away lots of extra points.

Good points about Marsha. Even with us shorthanded, we still had the talent edge by a landslide. I know Baker was no Top 50 recruit out of Scott City.

I'd like to see us face Indiana for the experience it will give our guards. They will bring some big, talented guards.

"Bill Self is an elite college basketball coach, Kansas is an elite college basketball school and the 2015-16 Jayhawks are an elite college basketball team. Don’t make the error I almost did, because sleeping on the Jayhawks will be the biggest mistake any person or any team makes next season."

I know this may open a can of worms.... I am very happy we have our conference streak. It is helping hype Kansas basketball. I'm not discounting NCs... but when you put '08 and '12 (runner-up) with our conference streak, we are the definite powerhouse in the Midwest.

Pistol Pete was a Serb on a mission... he carried a big chip developed by his demanding father, who was also a player and coach. He was supposed to be a WVU Mountaineer but his dad was coaching at LSU and offered him.

He was considered "the Elvis" of basketball.

He is a great example of what a chip can do for a player. Imagine what it can do for a team?!

Earl the Pearl developed his game on the playgrounds of Philly. A real playground player and his style was somewhat typical of a lot of playground players back then.... lots of flash!

@Lulufulu

I think most American sports have gone through some beefing up the past 20 years or so. Training techniques have improved considerably, and now it has become tough for guys who don't "muscle up."

American football is totally different. Now you have huge linemen that can "haul ass!" It has really made the game crazy and dangerous. If you can ever go to a NFL game and get down on the field or sit close to it, you will hear the impact collisions and it sounds like a bad car crash. Very violent. The physics of pushing that much weight and that speed... I'm not sure what they are supposed to do to prevent injuries (and death!). Gosh...even a high school game these days can get pretty rowdy on the field. I know those young bones tend to flex better, but WOW!

@Lulufulu

"Why dont they rename the Big10? Call it the Big16?"

My guess is that we will never see a new conference name with numbers in it....

Having said that... since we don't have 12 teams maybe we should rename our conference "The Big #1!"

What a mess.... Wish we had added two teams a while back when we could have grabbed a couple of quality schools. I know there must be more to this than what we fans read and understand.

@Texas-Hawk-10

Bingo!

@justanotherfan

Yeah... the guy with the rock can easily get a foul drawn on his screener because he didn't have time to set before the defense is following the ball.

We get a lot of fouls called on our bigs out top, often because they aren't set quick enough. They also need to do a better job of not telegraphing the screen. When a defender sees the screen coming, he may be able to anticipate it and either get out top quicker or get a foul on the screener for not being set or moving his feet trying to stop him.

I'm with you on Chris Paul. He is the master for many reasons, including how he likes to fake his path towards the screen and then drive the other way (when he sees the defender has over-anticipated the screen). He sure is fun to watch!

@wrwlumpy

I just watched the screen video. Some good points, but also a few bad tips. The screener never wants to put his arm up high even if he's trying to protect himself. It's too easy to make arm contact with the guard's head (who is fighting through the screen) and get nailed for a flagrant foul. You have to avoid having your arm or hand make contact with another player's head, even if that player is initiating most of the contact.

There is a lot of information left out on this. The most important factor in setting a good screen (or defending one) is proper hedging (floor position). Surprised Big Red didn't have it in there, he was pretty good at hedging in his playing days!

@justanotherfan

"The DDM is the turbo charged modern Princeton offense."

I don't think so. Both use a "4 out" set, but Princeton isn't premised off of a driver going one-on-one and taking it to the rim, or kicking it out because the defense sags in on his drive.

@wrwlumpy

Thanks for the vid. I've seen many of these sportskool vids with Walton.

@Kcmatt7

I thought Cotton was a SF? I thought Baker was their big minute SG? I know Baker and VanVleet played tons of minutes and they are both out on the perimeter.

I'm not a fan of the dribble drive. It just encourages bad offensive habits. It encourages guys to go too much one-on-one. It also fails miserably when your adversary matches up well with you and their players have scouted out your drives.

I tend to like something closer to a Princeton motion offense... turbo-charged with modern twists, proper spacing, and "no stick" passing. This offense gets a bad wrap in college because most teams aren't skilled enough to run it well, and it will be an even tougher offense for most now that the shot clock has dropped to 30. But you can build in your "last second" outlets, so you should always get a reasonable shot... usually your last-second desperate shot is about equal to what you would have taken on a dribble drive.

For whatever reason, we don't teach our guys how to screen properly. We don't teach them how to use shot fakes, screens, or sealing off the basket for rebounds. If we just had one assistant coach that put all his energy this year into teaching these three things, we would be a shoe in for a NC. Not even close.

Pick and rolls and pick and pops should be twists put in whatever offense we run. It suddenly breaks the game into a 2-man attack, almost like a secondary break. Did you see teams like Brazil use it to crush America in the Pan Am games? It works in kid's ball and it works in the NBA. It punishes defenders who can't make a proper switch in time and gets out of position or a guy who can't fight through a screen.

Looked like DG had intended to jump over the kid and realized (mid stream) he wasn't going to make it. He was about a foot short of jumping jack the kid.

@REHawk

My question.... WHERE will Conner get his minutes? Their PG and SG is VanVleet and Baker. Move Baker to the 3?

It looks like Conner will have to get mop up minutes left from these two.

@jaybate-1.0

Izzo is the only guy in that list that doesn't have to have a complete stack in order to win. No one builds a chip like Izzo. No one.

@jaybate-1.0

Look at the hi/lo like it is the B-52. A utility bomber that has been around long past it's critics and has been updated several times to accomplish different purposes. This year it will get new engines again.... with the speed up of the time clock. This is a plane with great bones and was (and is) only limited by the imagination of the engineers on what it can still do.

But at some point we might consider jumping to a modern aircraft because the advantage is gone from completing another overhaul versus utilizing a modern aircraft.

!defense-b52.jpg ↗

@jaybate-1.0

I look at Bad Ball like I look at teams that don't play d but have great offense. These strategies can win games... but much harder to win a championship. Not impossible... just more difficult.

@HighEliteMajor

I agree. We have very little chance of winning a NC playing Bad Ball.

I define Bad Ball as only coming to play one side of the ball - defense. I agree with Self in the importance of defense. I don't agree with making defense such a focus that we discount offense.

Teams that really play ball, do so on both sides of the ball. Offense and defense should have a synergistic relationship; both able to create energy for the other side when making big plays. That is what successful teams do.

I'm definitely a "Bill Self man" and not a "Roy Williams man." I never want to trade defense for offense. But why would anyone ever think that is what has to happen? As I said above... both sides of the ball FEED each other!

Getting Bill to change is like pulling teeth. He won't even use some zone, even when losing (except on rare occasion). I don't see him getting away from the hi/lo even if we get stuck with a team without a player taller than 6'6". That poor 6'6" player would become famous in the NCAA stat book for having more shots blocked in a single season than anyone in history.

But really... the only thing we have to complain about is not winning a NC since 2008. Not many teams around with so little to complain about. And though Bill doesn't change much, even when the ship is sinking, we do seem to get the maximum out of our M2M and hi/lo because he refuses to abandon it. But I do wonder if we mixed it up more would we get more out of the M2M and hi/lo because teams would have to prepare for more than that to play us?

@EdwordL

I have a hard time believing Cliff didn't know. What lender would give a parent a loan based on the son's future income without knowing 100% that the son knew about it and went for it, and, no doubt, signed something? If Cliff never knew about it, what guarantee would the financial institution have that the loan would be paid back?

My guess is that Cliff tried to protect himself in hopes of maintaining his eligibility.

@KUSTEVE

I was going to add to your comment that a M2M defense also takes it out on the other team... then I finished reading your post and you mentioned how it added to our exhaustion because of playing 3 games in a row. In that case, yes, it took more out of us because we did it in every game and had to carry the exhaustion burden in to every game.

So... good point! Perhaps the next time we get in a situation where games are too close together or our depth is low... we should consider trying to run some minutes of zone in the early game(s) just to help save our legs. That strategy should be added to the strategy of subbing more to keep our legs fresh on our top players.

Cliff made some mistakes. And I forgive him for that. He is a Jayhawk.

I just don't like that we have to put an asterisk by his name when talking about him because he didn't follow the success path established by so many past and current Jayhawks. We will survive his failed legacy. It is to his benefit and ours if he now comes out of the shadows and still makes success for himself.

Go, Cliff!

I think we all need to take a deep breath and step back from the Wayne situation.

He had a monster set of games in Korea. We should leave it at that.

It might have simply been two things:

1. Self telling him to be more aggressive and an alpha.

2. He hit a few of his early shots and it gave him confidence that he was able to carry with him throughout the tournament.

I'm good like that.

The mistake we all are going to make is now EXPECT Wayne to do that every game this season. We will put up a wall of pressure on Wayne and it will not help him with his game.

So I"m going to keep my mind right on Wayne, and NOT EXPECT a year ahead to match his WUG performance. I will just remain HOPEFUL!

@JayHawkFanToo

Yes... it was so bad I almost started rooting for Canada. Imagine the fool that cut VanVleet and kept Brown? Guess they thought, "wow... all those points in China league!"

Someone read players' stats and thought they could build a "team" like that.

I thought Baker's play was interesting. He barely took a shot before the end of yesterday's game (through the entire tournament), because he is used to playing on a team that ran offense... versus what they ran in the tournament... every man for himself, if you want to shoot then create your own shot.

It looked like our guys weren't even coached. We could have had these results without coaching. Just throw 5 guys out there and when one gets tired he could signal to the bench for someone to come in and take his spot.

Even had we won, their play was embarrassing. I'm thinking guys like Baker and Langford are thinking right now... "what did I get myself into?" This wasn't an experience where anyone developed. This wasn't a resume builder. A complete waste of time.

How many assists did we have in this game? Yeah, right... every man for himself! A few times I almost turned the TV off when Brown brought the ball up and instantly gunned a 35-ft brick, not even a single pass, and 16 seconds left on the shot clock and no one in position for a rebound. Why our rebounding stunk? Yeah... that was a big reason why. Brown wouldn't get selected for a team at the Y during lunch ball. How did they find that guy?

This was, and is, a disaster.

WSU will be better.... better than they were last year. Their keys, VanVleet and Baker, are great players, but I feel like they are close to reaching their ceiling.

But KU will also be better... MUCH better than they were last year! The closest player we have near his ceiling is Perry, and I'm not expecting him to bring a lot more developed tools to his game this year. All he needs to do is NEVER QUIT in games like he has in past years. When he is having a tough night he just has to continue to take shots and push it to the rim. That should be his big lesson from WUG, and for the entire team. NEVER QUIT!

These should be two teams destined for success in March. Hope we get another chance at the Shocks in March!

I like our chances against the Shocks this time.

@DinarHawk

I hear you. I also value Devonte more than Nic. Nic is a veteran player, but he also had perhaps the hardest time adjusting to the refs in WUG, always getting himself into foul trouble. He had a hard time limiting his fouls.

But, no question, Nic was very valuable to our team. He gave us another capable guard/PG that could get the ball over the half court and helped keep our pace moving. I don't think we would have won WUG without Nic. But we could have easily won WUG just as well with Devonte. We will never know how Devonte would have adapted to WUG ball. He might have shown some "greenness" in Korea!

@jaybate-1.0

"My point here is this: height is still relevant, however much of the game is played at lower than leaping levels."

I still think height is very important. Height relates heavily to reach, and reach also extends horizontally and plays a major impact in x-axis.

But y-axis is important, too, because most players are not all that capable (individually) in the x-axis. Most players can't create their own scoring space on a guy 6-inches taller. Scoring space is needed in both axis planes. Height is the easiest way to create scoring space or to take it away from the opposition.

Basketball is a team game, and teams need various weapons. Some tools are needed to defend, others to offend, and both must be capable against varying types of teams and players.

I decided to put this in a new thread, hoping others would post their own formulas for picking the best player in the world.

Here is my formula. Players are given a grade between 1 and 20 in each category with 20 being the highest. Then add together all category grades to make a single number to compare with other greats. Player with the highest number is the best player in the world!

1. Statistics: Statistics are valued relative to the position of the player and the role that player was asked to fulfill during their career.

2. Championships: Total number of NBA Titles. Compare that total to all other greats. The player with the most championships receives a 20. The remaining players' will receive a grade proportionate in comparison.

3. Basketball IQ: Extremely subjective, but also partially objective when studying certain statistics, like TOs.

4. Art Form: Very subjective grading on form. View highlight footage and enough general footage to come up with a grade.

5. Competition: Compare players to the players from their time period. The player that stands out most positive from the rest of the league players at that time receives a perfect score of 20. Other players are proportionately reduced on the grade when comparison of their abilities to other players at that time are compared to the comparisons made on other great players being evaluated.

6. Highlights: Judge players' best highlights and compare greats to greats and give 20 points to the player with the best highlight (or highlights) and then reduce scores on the remaining greats proportionate to where their highlight(s) grade from the best.

So if a player receives a perfect score, he has a score of 120.

Here is my score on Wilt, Michael and LeBron:

WILT

1. Statistics - easily the top of the list in stats. 20 points

2. Championships/Awards - 2x NBA Champion. Domination in many categories of awards. 18 points

3. Basketball IQ - Very respectable, especially for a big man. Good court awareness and anticipation. Solid fundamentals. 16 points

4. Art Form - Very good footwork for a big man. Liked to palm the ball and move with ballet motion to the rim. 18 points

5. Competition - Wilt may have dominated the game more than any player from any time period. Very solid 20 points

6. Highlights - May not have near the highlights of some of the more modern players, but then, Wilt was a phenom from his time and did everything in a unique fashion, often setting the standard for future players to template parts of their game from him. 20 points

Wilt's cumulative score: 112

MICHAEL

1. Statistics - high on the list in stats. 18 points

2. Championships/Awards - 6x NBA Champion. Domination in many categories of awards. 20 points

3. Basketball IQ - Very high with a high rate of execution. Good court awareness and anticipation. Solid fundamentals. 19 points

4. Art Form - Best possible form. Few others have this level of form. 20 points

5. Competition - Michael dominated the game in his time period. 19 points

6. Highlights - Michael was at the top in highlights. Very helpful that filming technology had reached a better level so more of his highlights were recorded. 20 points

Michael's cumulative score: 116

LEBRON

1. Statistics - Reasonably high on the list in stats. 17 points

2. Championships/Awards - 2x NBA Champion. Reasonably dominant in many categories of awards. 16 points

3. Basketball IQ - High with a high rate of execution. Decent court awareness and anticipation. Solid fundamentals. 15 points

4. Art Form - Decent form, especially for a player with his size. 17 points

5. Competition - LeBron dominated the game in his time period. 19 points

6. Highlights - LeBron has many great highlights... big in quantity a bit less on quality compared to both Wilt and Michael. Very helpful that filming technology had reached a better level so more of his highlights were recorded. 16 points

LeBron's cumulative score: 100

So, in my book, I have Michael edging out Wilt and LeBron trailing both. But LeBron is still active and bound to lift his score through the remainder of his career, unless he is plagued with injuries.

@ralster

Right on! I'm still shocked that we won WUG! Gosh... I know we lose Nic from that team... but imagine what we are going to be like with Devonte, Cheick, BG and Svi? Add one more guy to that group and we left a Top 20 team at home!

The timing should be there this year for us. Perry is "ripe" to finally be that consistent force we need from him. I'm not expecting to see another Perry this year, just a Perry that doesn't go absent when his game isn't going great.

If Wayne maintains consistent alpha ball like he had in Korea.... it is very hard to imagine a team out there that can put the brakes on us.

I'm hopeful Cheick will adapt quickly to the speed of D1. Almost can't imagine that he won't. He already plays at a fast speed. If he clicks big by the end of the year, we will have our inside force capable of being the shot blocker we like to have and rebounder, too.

I could write for an hour about all our guys...

We just have to stay healthy. Self needs to do his best job ever at substituting. Guys need a blow. Fresher legs typically mean less injuries.

Yep... Few really missed the boat cutting VanVleet. Just imagine removing most of the TOs from our games? That alone would have made the Brazil game tight... and I'm not even considering the difference in chemistry when having a top notch PG out there versus a volume scorer pretending to be a PG. Few has no concept of what Int'l ball is all about, because if he had some knowledge he would have made sure to pick quality depth at PG.

Got to hand it to Self... especially after Devonte went down. He knew he had to bring in a guy who could handle the rock and was a solid PG.

Okay... this is like seeing Xmas decor go up at the mall in July.... way too early... but if I don't type this, I am bound to start a thread on tomatoes.

On KUSports.com it mentions Michael Porter and Trae Young verbalizing their desire to come to Late Night.

Do we know how many recruits have already committed to Late Night?

Maybe some of you have your own predictions on who will attend.

And what about signing someone in November? Will we get that done?

It appears that we are on a bunch of elite players' lists. A couple of those sound very serious about Kansas.

I would enjoy reading all your "guesstimations" on who will be the next group of elite Jayhawks.

We need to have this discussion AFTER LeBron leaves the game. Hard to say how much longer he sticks around and what he will do to his stat line, including, perhaps, add more titles.

This thread has been a very insightful (and entertaining) read!

I'd like to know what factors posters are using to determine "the greatest?"

There simply isn't an objective method to figure that out.

Team USA showed it's Achilles heel yesterday.... bad PG play. Bobby Brown is a joke. His focus is on seeing if he can top the 50-some points he made in a game in the China pro league. He couldn't run a lemonade stand and he dang sure can't run a team. Trimble is such green wood I swear he has sprouted a branch on top of his head.

This is the perfect example of "cut the head off" the giant, and stand back to experience the fall. I can't believe they cut VanVleet. Or too bad Frank couldn't just catch a flight direct from Korea to Toronto.

What a disgrace.

@Texas-Hawk-10

"How Selden and Svi play during the year will determine whether that’s a priority or not in the 2016 class."

Neither of these guys are PGs. It is irrelevant how they play this year as to why we would recruit or not recruit a PG. We should be bringing in PGs every couple of years to keep staggered development going at that position, otherwise we end up with years having a newbie run the team.

I'll kick it off -

[link text](

That's art.

So do you prefer the "art" of LeBron or the "art" of Dr. J?

Considering art form surely has to be in everyone's calculation for a player making top of the list.

@JhawkAlum

Good post!

It just isn't possible that we judge these guys without our own personal biases getting involved. I definitely consider LeBron one of the greats. I just don't know how to pick a list and try to defend it and not have it sound like I'm just picking my personal favorites that I like the most, or who I relate to most concerning style of play, or...

Putting LeBron in the top 3 means (for most of us anyways) putting him in company with MJ and Wilt. He may deserve to be there, but I'm not ready to discount the rest of the pile of greats in the process.

The closest thing I have towards a list is my top 2: Wilt and Michael. Who do I pick as #1? Got to go with Jordan. But if I was picking which player was the most-superior during his time, I might just flip over to Wilt.

I'm okay with my top 2 and still feel like I'm giving the proper credit to the rest of the crowd by not having them up there. So I have 1 and 2, and I sort of pile about 10 players in the next group, which would definitely include LeBron, and he sure wouldn't be #10!

Is LeBron better than Bird? I can't answer that. Both incredible players with a very different skill set. Should we favor athleticism more than court intelligence? I know, I know... LeBron certainly doesn't lack basketball IQ, but Bird was a rare species of bird.

I don't think we could find all the right footage... but I'd feel better ranking individual highlight plays. It would be great to find some of the best clips of all these top players and rank them... say... the Top 100!

What is the all-time greatest play in NBA history? I put it to all of you. If it is that great, there must be a clip of it to post from youtube! Bring on the gold and glitter to the fabulous careers of all these magnificent players!

@justanotherfan

Yes.... it is a good analogy to look at gambling. Your best chance of "being a winner" in Vegas is to go to the game with the best player odds and let it all ride ONE TIME! (unless you are a successful card counter)

Vegas loves winners. Why? Because they will come back 10-fold after winning and will probably lose the next X times... a lot more than they ever won!

Vegas wins a fortune by just maintaining a very slight % winning advantage. Over time, the formula is in use millions and millions of times, guaranteeing their success, because luck or any other forces is not an issue when you apply quantum mathematics.

In a basketball game, the amount of possessions isn't a huge number... nothing in the "quantum math" category... but still, the higher the number the more likely the favored team will win and issues like luck (who gets hot) becomes less of a factor.

@JayHawkFanToo

Good points! I think when most people think MVPs and top players they think of offense... but what may separate LeBron most is his quality defense riding along side his overwhelming offensive abilities.

This whole business of "top whatever" in the league is mostly a popularity contest. That's why no one mentions Kobe Bryant. His career highlights and awards exceeds LeBron's in some categories, lower in others... still...

5× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009–2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
17× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2015)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
11× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2013)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000–2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2006–2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001–2002, 2012)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
Los Angeles Lakers all-time leading scorer
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)

The league has had plenty of superstar players, all playing under different conditions. Impossible to just compare apples to apples. Without a good PG, a player typically won't build a great stat line.

LeBron is pretty good under the eye test. But it relates mostly to his size and that he can do quite a bit for a guy his size. But skill wise... if you take out his size as a factor, he doesn't really dominate anything else. His ball handling is good, not great. Shooting... good not great. Defending... good not great (when you toss out his height as a consideration).

@JayHawkFanToo

It's called a "frohawk."

@Texas-Hawk-10

" This is why I don’t believe we’ll see KU land a combo or PG in this class."

At least... not an OAD-level PG. We should be looking for the next Devonte Graham to bring in for a couple years of education and limited play, molding into our future stud PG....

Hey... with all that talent we had in '08, we just edged out DRose and Memphis. He was an OAD PG.

There are sound arguments for going after OAD PGs. I just like having good, seasoned PGs every year, and if we do the right job recruiting, that should happen, unless injuries or other events occur on occasion.

Part of the model that makes me think the way I do is the model of UCONN. Always a guard-capable team. They've been stacking NCs up big time over the last 16 years (4 NCs). Just remembering their last two.... 2011, with a seasoned Kemba Walker (junior) and then 2014, beating a tough Kentucky team with Shabazz Napier (senior). Both of these PGs were absolutely vital and were tournament MOP.

Hard to say how it goes if we recruit over our talented PGs. Transferring has become very popular these days. What if we bring someone in and then Devonte splits? Or his development hiccups because he isn't seeing floor time and loses confidence.

Shabazz had the good fortune of experiencing Walker's game, mostly from the bench, and he learned a lot. He knew he was "the man" moving forward after Walker.

The PG position is not like any other position. It REQUIRES leadership. It REQUIRES trust and respect from the other positions. It REQUIRES solid communication. Not often when a guy can come in as a freshman and earn all of that with a team that has several older players. Bonds usually take time and experiences before they solidify.

@Kcmatt7

Aren't all those guys 4-yr guys except Chalmers, who left after winning a title in his junior year?

I think you are helping me make my point, all these guys had lots of experience when we were going for a big March. Collins was only a freshman in '08, but he was our spark off the bench and not a starter.

I'm not saying we don't go after big time talent. We will do the best by getting the most talent possible in a multi-year player... preferably a guy who sticks it out for 4 years unless he wins a NC first!

I think the game has changed since most of these guys played. TT is recent enough to be a part of the big move for talent to leave early for the NBA, especially as OADs. The NBA draft atmosphere has changed a lot in recent years, drafting more on potential than established talent.

Up until recent times, I thought the early guys were all about "instant gratification" and wanting to go quickly to the league so they could buy a big house and car and help out their families. I'm slowly changing my position with some of the recent serious injuries happening. And the league doesn't reward guys (typically) for sticking it out in college and coming out with more polish. The league GMs are mesmerized by "shiny objects" and typically can't resist going after potential. The longer players play in college, the less it becomes about potential and the more it becomes about being a known, semi-developed entity.

The one thing with having a "potential perspective"... you can imagine greatness so far hyped beyond reality, it becomes addictive like a drug! Everyone is looking for the next Jordan! Turns out, it may end up being someone like Wigs... a guy who was largely traded for a "known entity."

@wrwlumpy

Looks less like a "4 corners" iso and more of a baseline iso.

I see why Self would run this iso set. Definitely one of the biggest reasons is how well spread out our guys are. Typically, iso sets will push guys tight together and then they run screens out of it. Problem is... very unpredictable. It only takes one mistake or one defender getting in the spot that neutralizes all our guys clumped together. In this set, players are spaced out and the defense doesn't have many options on where to stand and defend from. This makes it more like a chess game and we can practice this set with different outcomes based on the chess moves made by the defenders. If the low post defender tries to prevent Frank's drive to the rim, he will need to either push out the post player he is guarding, or step out of position to fill the driving lane. If he does that, Frank should have an easy assist by rifling a pass into the low post for an easy score.

This iso set helps prevent the defense from making layers of defense Frank has to drive by. As long as our bigs are able to execute the low post screen, or get help from a wing screen by running a cross-up screen, Frank basically has to beat only his man to have a clear path to the rim.

Looks like an easy set to scout and beat with a little practice. Looks can be deceiving!

@BeddieKU23

We were either lucky to land Frank and Devonte and have them work out... or we have gifted coaches that see great potential in these guys... or likely BOTH!

Yes, Fox is a real talent. I'd love to see him in a Jayhawk uniform, especially if he was here more than one year. I just fear that we get on a track where we have to go find a quality PG every year to start. It takes time to be successful at Self ball. Lots to learn while learning to play at the speed of D1.

Duke was fortunate last year, and I wouldn't count on many freshmen PGs going out there and winning NCs. Duke was a huge stack, and it wasn't all on Jones to make it happen.

Without question, the right kind of talent could come in and become the biggest factor in winning a NC. But do you want to get on that roller coaster ride every year? I think it also just encourages us to become a revolving door team like Kentucky because every year will be a total gamble on winning since you have to find a new PG every year.

Right now I am enjoying KNOWING what we have coming back! We have about as much certainty as we can have leading up to a season. It is great to know we have a solid, experienced core coming back, including leadership at the point. That helps offset the unknown... like injuries, etc.

@JayHawkFanToo

"when he is done he will be top 3 of all-time…"

I'm curious who you have in that top 3? Wilt, Michael J, and LeBron?

I respect and admire LeBron's game. Hard not to. But I'm not sure where to put him amongst the greats of basketball. Not sure I could put him in the top 3. But not to take anything away from LeBron.

What factors are most-important in determining the top 3? Career stats? Eye test? Importance to the team? Monumental performances?

@sfbahawk

Makes me think of the Oakland As from way back... like in the 70s. Rollie Fingers and his handlebar mustache and the rest of the hairy players ("Moustache Gang") that were coerced to grow wild hair from A's owner Charles O Finley. That was a great team worthy of their 3 World Series Championships!

"In addition to his pitching ability, he was noted for his waxed handlebar moustache which he originally grew to get a $300 bonus from Athletics owner Charles O. Finley.

On the first day of spring training for the 1972 season, Reggie Jackson showed up with a beard. In protest, Fingers and a few other players started going without shaving to force Jackson to shave off his beard, in the belief that management would also want Jackson to shave. Instead, Finley, ever the showman who would do anything to sell tickets, then offered prize-money to the player who could best grow and maintain their facial hair until Opening Day (April 15 versus Minnesota). Fingers went all out for the monetary incentive offered by Finley and patterned his moustache after the images of the players of the late 19th century.[17] Taking it even further, Finley came up with "Moustache Day" at the ballpark, where any fan with a moustache could get in free.[18]

Catfish Hunter and Ken Holtzman also went for the bonus, but Fingers with his Snidely Whiplash took the prize.[19][20] He would say later: "Most of us would have grown one anywhere on our bodies for $300".[21] The players would become known as the "Moustache Gang".[22]

Although most former A's players shaved their handlebar moustaches off after the team traded most of their players in 1975–76, Fingers maintained his after signing with the San Diego Padres as a free agent in 1977, and still has the moustache today."

~ SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollie_Fingers ↗

@nuleafjhawk

No doubt, he is a victim to high expectations. But also part of it is Perry's game. It is more about being precise and less about powering the ball through the hole. We've had some mighty powerful post players before Perry who also created the expectation for Perry to not only score a lot but also to do it with authority.

I can't really recall another post player in the Self era that counted on finesse to the degree that Perry does. Can you?

I guess perhaps Kevin Young? Which, btw, I enjoyed watching him play for Puerto Rico yesterday (and Pitino) against our American squad which includes Keith Langford. Pretty amazing blow out!

@bskeet

I think it is a byproduct of Self playing slow ball (not counting WUG). Our Serbia game in WUG was close because they were a good team that matched up well to create a tight game. But in general, underdog teams prefer a slow game to limit possessions because it gives them a better chance to hang around close in games.

Put that with our hi/lo, limiting the hot/cold impact from trey. Perhaps more consistent, but lower scoring games. And then there is our defense, which typically plays well and fairly consistent.

It seems to push us towards lower, closer scores.

BAD BALL!

Perhaps the shot clock bumping down to 30-seconds will create quicker moving games for us and larger scoring disparities(?)

Frank is exactly what I want in a PG. His height is a major factor keeping him off the NBA draft boards, so he is a 4-yr Jayhawk! Just what you want at PG. And he has a guy to replace him when he's gone... except we really need to score another version of a Frank next year, so he can get some seasoning for a couple of years.

I know there could be some kind of dream OAD PG out there who wants to come to Kansas. And maybe in that one year he could help bring us a NC. That... or he comes without succeeding in March, and then we are stuck with a hole at point and forced to recruit another rookie for the job. Then we have pressure to land another OAD PG.

I'd rather stay off the OAD roller coaster at PG. Frank has been valuable since Day 1 at Kansas. The next 2 years he should bring us "championship quality" play at the PG position.

I hope we continue to nail solid PGs who have "4-yr" written all over them. We need to recruit one at least every second year, to get seasoned first in a part time role.

@Kcmatt7

In his case, the only reason he should enter the draft is if he is projected reasonably high in the first round. He needs to be picked in the first round in order to secure a guaranteed contract.

He still has quite a bit of developmental potential left (upside). Obviously, he can't make himself grow taller, or gain vast amounts of athleticism (he is already very athletic). But he could use two more years to hone his PG skills. He would definitely be a PG in the league.

@Crimsonorblue22

Don't mistake me for a Cavs fan. I like to harp on it just to keep pushing it on the Cavs. I hope to be "rubbing this in" for at least another decade! :-)