πŸ€ KuBuckets Archive

Read-only archive of KuBuckets.com (2013-2025)
jaybate 1.0
10346 posts
How Will the Refs Call the Game this Season? β€’ Jul 04, 2014 08:33 AM

@drgnslayr

Interesting idea of monitoring remotely.

Filled me with related "What if".

What if no fouls stopped play? What if instead of shooting FTs, a team was given an automatic 1 or 2 points for being fouled? Depends on the kind of foul.

I know this would be sacrilege from a historical stand point, like eliminating jump balls, but it might make more continuity and more voluntary avoidance of fouling, if coaches knew the points were automatic.

It would also end intentional fouling of bad FT shooters. More equality of penalty for breaking the game's rules, plus more continuity of play.

How Will the Refs Call the Game this Season? β€’ Jul 03, 2014 06:19 PM

@nuleafjhawk

Lol

FoxSports: Oh No! Weis & the 7 Dwarfs β€’ Jul 03, 2014 02:05 PM

@Kip_McSmithers

Charlie's job is to rebuild the stuff that doesn't show, not win.

If his job were to win, he never would have been hired, since he couldn't win at ND.

His job is to build a bridge with the faculty to make the faculty not hate football players.

His job is to NOT get KU into any recruiting investigations, while Zenger is digging deep to find where the bodies and past infractions are buried.

His job is to set an example of good character and of playing hard, while Zenger moves myriad pieces around the board to ready for a probable near total rebuild of of the stadium that will one day probably only save a ten foot portion of the facade at the horse shoe end of the stadium.

Charlie Weiss' job is thankless from a fan stand point, but he could turn out to be the most important football coach in transitioning KU from a good team once every 15 years program to an actual properly foundationed and professionally operated football program. The more slowly Zenger moves the more faith I have in him, and I was doubtful of him at the beginning.

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 03, 2014 11:37 AM

@JayHawkFanToo

No, I don't believe you will soon be done with this topic of jaybate.

You return to jaybate often--once in awhile saying you are done with this topic, then re-turning.

But that's ok.

I love you and never need to be right, or win.

I can always let you be finished with the topic of jaybate until you need to start with it AGAIN!

Rock Chalk!

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 03, 2014 10:09 AM

@justanotherfan

Liked that .84 assisted stat.

All non assisted trey shooting is fools gold statistically and should only be allowed with a great go get a basket guy at closing time down 2-3.

Whenever I talk about 40 percent trey shooting I assume open look shooting with only a few guarded 3pta's/season.

Sometimes I think board rats think I pick the 40% from trey criterion out of thin air, or that I read it from a coach like Self first.

No.

It's just a logical calculation/ estimate of the percentage required to make it worth forgoing the inside trey (I.e., 50% make rate inside plus a FTA 33% of the time at a make rate of .700 on the FTA) to make defense pay for collapsing on the inside trey.

This 40% outside trey rate came clear to me about six years ago, then watching the high low and Self's recurring inside-out comments and use of guys that made around that rate my estimate was confirmed.

.36-.37 are good enough to stretch defenses, but NOT good enough to make it worth not taking the inside trey. .38-.39 are near the threshold. But .40 is where the outside trey and the inside trey become a risk adjusted point of indifference.

This why I harp on 40 percent. With guys that create the point of indifference outside, the high low actually achieves strategic synergies in scoring efficiencies. At 40 % shooting outside Self can let the offense expand and contract repeatedly and get open looks outside AND inside, not just one or the other, and do so largely without actions, just with ball movement inside out. And KU WOULD HAVE GONE UNDEFEATED.

Offensive strategy in basketball is the exploitation of statistical scoring probabilities distributed spatially and accessible by passes.

The worse shooters you are, the lower and more vulnerably distributed are your spatially scoring opportunities, and the less benefit their is to ball movement. Just feed the post or drive it.

With good shooters, you keep it from sticking and play inside out.

Thus BRADY and TYREL made KU very good teams without put it on the deck athleticism.

Thus Travis Releford shooting 40% from trey was more important than Travis putting it on the deck.

Assisted open looks made at 40% are way more vital to optimizing hi Lo offensive efficiency and synergy than slashing.

BenMac could have shot 50% from trey on open looks had Withey been dominant offensively, and we had not needed to run so much action for him.

How Will the Refs Call the Game this Season? β€’ Jul 03, 2014 12:58 AM

@ralster

I saw a similar, though perhaps less complete back migration over the same period, but it seemed to me that a lot of the change reflected a slight loosening of the leash by the referees coupled with a strong adaptation of methods of defense and offense.

One anecdotal observation to at least make a tiny beginning in supporting my point. Tarik Black gradually got so he could stay on the floor for a game. Part of it was that the coaches found a technique (holding his hands high while on defense inside) that helped him avoid fouling under the new rules. Part of it was that the refs seemed to ease up a little. But bottom line, Tarik Black was never able to enforce all season long, even with his hands up, the way we hoped for and the way the old foul calling permitted.

But the single biggest signal that something changed structurally in the foul calling for the entire season was the degree to which teams continued throughout the season to play for the inside three. The most successful teams last season were those with the greatest positive spread in total team fouls. Wisconsin was the poster boy for winning by making few fouls and forcing their opponents into tons of fouls. And Bill Self largely pioneered the end of high pressure defense aimed at wining the disruption statistic. After beating teams the previous seasons by winning the disruption stat, Self essentially abandoned pressure defense in pursuit of holding his total team fouls to a minimum, and going to the offensive end of the floor with the offensive team playing almost exclusively for inside threes.

How Will the Refs Call the Game this Season? β€’ Jul 02, 2014 06:10 PM

With 20/20 hindsight, it is pretty clear that last season's experiment in increasing scoring and taking some of the muscle out of the game was at least effective (dubiously so IMHO) in delivering more control to the refs over outcomes of games.

By seasons end it was just plain remarkable how much referees were determining outcomes both in the macros, i.e., which team they favored by calling more total fouls on the opponent, and in the micro, i.e., in terms of which team they gave the game to (or at least tried to) at closing time. I will carry with me always the recollection of the call and the 5 minute tape review that went against UW-Madison, and for Arizona. It is one thing to call an out of bounds on the wrong team at the buzzer, but it is another thing entirely to then give the team that shouldn't have possession of the ball 5 minutes to rest their legs and draw up a play and a fall back option; that goes into the subterranean Hall of Shame.

Anyway, does anyone have a feel, or gossip, about how the refs are going to going to call the game?

Next, does anyone have a feel for what the upper limit is that coaches will go to in playing to get fouled?

Are we apt to see more pump faking?

Are we apt to see even more flopping?

Are we apt to see more, or less action, as a means of drawing fouls? It seems the ideal offense now is going to be a short possession offense designed to create foul-able shot opps. Essentially the game distills to getting fouled as quickly as possible, if the refs call it the same.

I could also foresee more running on offense, because it speeds another team up and creates lots of fouling opps. And the more you run, the more trips there are and the more trips there the more opps to get fouled their are.

Wooden's first two ring teams were very short at all five positions. They emphasized quickness and speed. Quickness and speed at least to be the best tools for drawing fouls.

On the other hand you don't want to get fouled without trying a shot, so does this mean a slow game that allows you to get your defender near you for the FGA every shot?

@JayhawkRock78

Holy cow, did I miss read your post and how glad I am TB is with the Rockets!!!!!!!!

You made my day, after I unmade it by misreading your post.

Thanks.

@JayhawkRock78

Dang! I hate for basketball to lose a guy like him to football. Protect your brain, Tarik. Even minor impacts do harm, according to the brain scanning research. God seems to have given you an above average one. You are big and powerful for a tight end. But linemen on both sides will outweigh you 60 pounds. And the strong safeties that are 30-35 pounds lighter will be closing on you from 20 yards on the dead run. And they are notorious for ferocity, fearlessly sacrificing their brain meat, and for delivering helmet impacts. And when you run an in, or a quick slant, linebackers may weigh what you weigh and like to eat their dead. Keep playing basketball. Please. Even though I know you could be a good footballer, don't, if there were any other way.

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 02, 2014 04:22 PM

@FarSideHawk

I have a lot of respect for Notre Dame academics and their networks of graduates in the various professions.

From a purely basketball sense, I would love for AWIII to play for Danny.

But from a career perspective, I think going to a school with a large and influential graduate network might have greater pay off for him over his life. I have to plead some ignorance about the graduate network of Wake Forest. I suspect it might be very helpful, if AWIII wanted to spend his life in the Carolinas, but perhaps not so much so elsewhere.

I often wonder why more of the players that are likely NOT to make it to the pros, or only for short times, do not consider playing for schools with awesome graduate networks. Why a guy goes to most any D1 major instead of an Ivy League school, if he could handle the academics escapes me. And the IVY league schools are hopelessly competitive to matriculate once one is admitted. And if the IVY schools will admit you because you can play some ball, then one ought to take the incredible life opportunity that they predispose one to. Alas, it seems many players never consider it.

I hope someone that has some first hand knowledge of D1 school choice will weigh in on this issue that I know nothing of. Usually, there is a sound reason, when kids are not doing something that seems logical.

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 02, 2014 04:08 PM

@VailHawk

I am a person and "a person is a person no matter how small." :-)

Do you think Oubre, or Svi, will shoot 40% from trey this season?

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 02, 2014 01:47 PM

@JayHawkFanToo

Be of good cheer.

My alias has no wish to put words in your alias' mouth.

And if my alias did, I believe the words would not be either what your alias sometimes claims my alias puts in your alias' mouth, or many of the other things your alias writes in your responses to my alias' posts.

Again, be of good cheer.

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 02, 2014 01:09 PM

@JayhawkRock78

Me too. πŸ˜ƒ

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 02, 2014 12:53 PM

@Kip_McSmithers

Lol!

Note: JayhawkFanToo backfill here. πŸ˜„

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 02, 2014 12:51 PM

@JayHawkFanToo

Note: backfill here. πŸ˜„

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 02, 2014 12:49 PM

@JayHawkFanToo

I just looked at both of my feet and I can't find a hole in either one! πŸ˜„

Seriously, I asked for clarification about the logical validity of your appeal to the authority of Jason King. It did not appear quite as sound to me, as it appeared to seem to you. I find no gratuitous insertion of words in your oral cavity.

Has the use of logic to analyze discourse truly become reduced in your mind to a superfluous attempt to prove one's intelligence? I frankly don't follow your logic that one would post on a basketball board to prove one's intelligence. Personally, I would get another degree in something, or go take an IQ test, rather than post on a basketball board. Frankly I come here to learn. I wish you taught me something. If you were to teach me something I did not know, you would hear nothing but gratitude from me.

You appear partial to use rather aggressive and/or vulgar tone in your backfill of some of my posts. It makes you less persuasive to me. Don't you want me to believe you, see your points, and agree with you? Wasn't the point of some your responses to persuade me of my wrongfulness? Why undermine your intent this way?

But the best way to build lasting love between us is to teach me something I don't know about the game. The game is the thing. I am the humblest of creatures. I love basketball, as much as certain persons reputedly love power and money and being right. You really value being right, don't you? Your love of being right is probably akin in intensity to my love of basketball.

Teach me about the game.

Dont get so defensive, if I disagree, or question your logic. I am just trying to learn. Already known is not exciting.

Rock Chalk!

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 02, 2014 04:15 AM

@JayHawkFanToo

Are you possibly committing a fallacy?

"Argument from authority (also known as appeal to authority) is a fallacy of defective induction, where it is argued that a statement is correct because the statement is made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative. The most general structure of this argument is:

This is a fallacy because the truth or falsity of a claim is not related to the authority of the claimant, and because the premises can be true, and the conclusion false (an authoritative claim can turn out to be false). It is also known as argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect) or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it)."
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Appeal_to_authority.html β†—

Or might you possibly be exercising reasonable informal logic, since you appear not to be an expert, and appear to imply Jason King is an expert on who calls other schools about players transferring?

"On the other hand, arguments from authority are an important part of informal logic. Since we cannot have expert knowledge of many subjects, we often rely on the judgments of those who do. There is no fallacy involved in simply arguing that the assertion made by an authority is true. The fallacy only arises when it is claimed or implied that the authority is infallible in principle and can hence be exempted from criticism."
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Appeal_to_authority.html β†—

It is somewhat difficult for me to tell.

But to be a mensch, I want to GIVE you the benefit of the doubt and say you are taking a stab at informal logic. In other words, I am playing take what you give me nicely.

Can you say with absolute certainty that you know that Jason King knows every situation regarding every transfer past and present?

Can you, an apparent non-expert, guaranty with certainty that Jason King is an expert qualified and able to make accurately such an assertion about the KU program?

Can you, an apparent non expert, be absolutely certain what was true about KU approaching schools about transfers at the time King's book was written, would remain 100 percent accurate in describing how KU has contacted schools regarding transfers, since the book's publication?

Did Jason King explicitly state with absolute certainty that the KU AD would never under any circumstances contact another school about a KU player that is transferring?

Just looking for a little clarification, so I can know whether to rely on what you write about about in this case.

But wouldn't it be a heart warming parochial story, if AD Zenger, or even HFC Weiss, liked AWIII and did put in a call to some friends up at ND to get him a look?

Rock Chalk!

Self Knows -- And That Is A Relief β€’ Jul 01, 2014 05:52 PM

Outside of what a shoe co may require you to take, and you apparently do have to take and play what they offer, or they will apparently stack someone else instead, legal recruiting appears a numbers game and not much more. Most coaches can probably "close" on a mother. Self is reputedly good at it but not apparently vastly better, or he probably would not have to work so hard and long at recruiting.

The non shoe co part of the recruiting game appears to be:

Offer all those that everyone thinks are good.

Text and tweet.

Text and tweet some more. Never stop.

Sign 1 in 20.

Add those you are forced to take.

Coach up.

Invest salary.

Kiss wife.

Repeat.

Andrew White to visit Notre Dame β€’ Jul 01, 2014 05:33 PM

AWIII = good team fit + good RC Mafia fit.

Bully for Shay Zeng for making the call, if he did. Even if AU Dome cannot fit him in, it's an honor to be considered and blesses his character in other right way programs' eyes.

I might even cheer for ND, if they take him in.

Ah, sure'n The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Scouting The Hoop Summit β€’ Jul 01, 2014 05:23 PM

Oubre = TAD

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 29, 2014 10:54 PM

@ralster

Nothing is fool proof.

And, yes, I think the things to borrow from Cal are:

1) quick offense for freshman impact players to learn to impact within; and

2) the idea of an offense that is something different than what six teams in the Madness will likely have grown used to defending.

We can't be taking till March every year to figure out how to get OADs to impact within the offense. The offense has to be so easy, they learn it in a week and then spend all their time learning to impact within it. Say a month. Then the team just works and works on execution and is street legal by December.

One idea that occurred to me after being stimulated out of my ruts by your recent posts is that Self might revive the old UCLA high post offense, and keep playing inside-out.

Except for Embiid, many of Self's years he has not been able to keep the Hi-Lo staffed with two 5s, just two 4s. And I keep recalling how sweet it was to have Kieff stretching defenses with the Hi trey. Anyway, the old high post offense worked for Detroit with Laimbeer and for UCLA many seasons, because it centers attack on both low wings. I suggested this set once for last years team before I realized how good Embiid was.

KU regularly has a Sidney Wicks and a Curtis Rowe--bigs capable of being trained to put in on the deck and going for the inside three. Teams are not used to this today and it could give us a real edge. But you have to have someone like Kieff, Laimbeer, or Steve Patterson, or any big that can drain the Hi trey to make it work. They don't have to be a bruiser, but in today's game it sure helps, and traditionally they have been bruisers. But what if Self puts his muscle and athleticism on the low wings going hard to iron off the dribble first to create the inside, then out to--drum roll please--Brannnen Greene, at the high post. Perry on one low wing and Jamari on the other low wing. Or Alexander and Oubre on the low wings. I think people are really underestimating Alexander's skinny legged mobility and that he could put it on the deck from a low wing and go to glass just the way Sidney Wicks once did. What if Hunter, or Landen have a Hi trey in them? Then you've got Greene as a small high post backed up by a big high post, or vice versa. The point is: this is NOT a hard offense to learn and it yet it lets you maximize the inside trey before going outside to say Svi, or whoever is the 2 guard, or to the high post.

Just a thought.

Joel Embiid: Meet ESPN under reporting! β€’ Jun 29, 2014 10:11 PM

@JayHawkFanToo

I recall what I opined. :-)

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 29, 2014 06:35 PM

@ralster

You know the old war movies? I am the old guy grounded giving advice. You are the new wing leader in the flipping air on the stick.

Awesome flipping take.

Rock Chalk!

β€œI want to win." β€’ Jun 29, 2014 06:21 PM

@drgnslayr

Not sure why you think that. Lebron is the only time Riles has veered from the dominant big man model. Riles has had Jabbar, Ewing, Mourning and Shaq. Seems like he took deep to heart what Jabbar meant.

But I know you will have good reason.

β€œI want to win." β€’ Jun 29, 2014 06:15 PM

@ralster

Not as worried about Self as other GMs seeing it! They are going to make him stinking rich very soon.

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 29, 2014 06:07 PM

One more very important thing Self has to anticipate. Powerful boosters and the chancellor and AD each of whom likely want their own man at head coach, WILL likely be laying the foundation for replacing Self as soon as possible without another ring. He is in a bureaucracy and he has been riding bureaucratically naked since Lew got run. I doubt he could last two .500 seasons at KU with CBernie and her hire ShayZeng not having hired him. They are probably not invested in him, just clipping his coupons till he slumps and they can get one of "their" guys in; that seems how the game is played. Without them, his fate defaults to the rule buyer, if he slumps. Anyone know how tight he is with the rule buyer?

In order to stay on he has to have a lot more clout than a big contract. The idea afoot here is already that he has to get another ring quick or he is suspect. I think this is nuts but how the game now works. Once enough doubt about him can be sewn, not by folks here, who seem not power boosters, but by the power boosters, then KU's rising number of affluent NBA players will soon be pooling resources to hire his replacement and we know who they will favor: one of several of his recent assistants. Self has gotten some good advice about how to play the game it appears. The former players can become a formidable monetary lobby for keeping a Self Baller Mafia in the seat. The power boosters get this of course, so they not only have to be willing to fork out more bones, but also have to be cagey in bringing about a climate that would prevent that. Byzantine stuff, but...

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 29, 2014 05:24 PM

Life will simplify things when we let it.

If you want a high complexity system, your core has to stay 3-4 year guys.

Self has opted out of that for the time being. Younger troops in impact roles are the new normal.

Thus he has to simplify offense brutally into something hard for opponents to recognize. Not just less of what he has done in the past.

Green troops have to be given a tactical edge to compensate for their inexperience. Cal got this first. Simple offense that is different than what opposing teams are used to seeing.

On defense, it is time to zone press all game not for pressure but to eliminate the lead time opponents have to recognize what half court defense KU WILL PLAY? It is crazy to give opposing offenses that lead time.

Only High foundation OADs. No more guys who will be great later.

Recruit hard noses, not characters to be hardened. No more hardening time for characters.

Also Self no longer has to like being around impact players. They are gone in one or two years. Still has to like his glue guys though.

No more individual high scoring games against chumps. It's fools gold and makes girlie men and girlie fans.

Etc.

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 29, 2014 04:38 PM

P.S.: Now all Self has to do is ignore everything you and I and everyone else writes and analyzes about him and he will get better and become the best he can be in spite of all of us! :-)

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 29, 2014 03:44 PM

@drgnslayr

"I constantly nag on some of his moves... but I would nag far more on all other current coaches in D1."

This is sound insight well writ.

The real difference between one time wonders and persistently successful persons, especially those in the public eye, is the long term successful really have to know what they are doing, how they are doing it, how to adapt known principles to new circumstances, be able to recognize a new principle when it arises without losing sight of the core purpose of their enterprises, and withstand the psychically wrenching torque of XTReme Praise coupled with Constant Criticism.

Persons always forget how much the truly great are doubted and constantly criticised, even scathingly criticized as they do the great things they do. You and I remember John Wooden well. Recall how savagely he was criticized for not letting his players talk with the press, for simply holding his tongue and not contributing to the pro Vietnam War propaganda that was being expected from public figures, for being an old prig, about not being slick enough for Westwood and LA, losing to Pete Newell and Sam Cunningham for ten years, for not recruiting for ten years, kicking Edgar Lacy off the team, for kicking Lucious Allen off the team, for playing Alcindor with a scratch cornea in the Astrodome, for being past his prime the one year he did not win a ring after 10 straight rings or whatever it was, for playing African Americans early on, for playing too many African Americans later on, for not playing enough African Americans later on, for being henpecked by Nell, for being too devoted to Nell to recruit like a D1 coach, for waiting too long to go to the press, for sticking with the press to rigidly, for being too controlling of his players' shooting form and shot selection, for playing Lynn Shackleford who could "only shoot it out of the corner," for playing Mike Warren, who was too short, for playing Freddie Slaughter at center who was too short, for depending on hot heads like Gail Goodrich and John Vallely, for playing the high post in an era when big postmen were dominating with low post play, for making wing players shoot bank shots, for making his players play too mechanically and unemotionally, etc., etc., etc. And all of this while the guy was winning 10 rings in 11 years or whatever it was!!!! He had to live with this relentless questioning and doubting and criticism just as he had to live with the insane idolization, the early fumbling attempts at media packaging of coaching stars and ALL of the ridiculously envious and vindictive put downs of him in university politics among the frustrated, tenured, solipsists on the faculty of a university. He had to have had the most strength of will and purposefulness of vision to have endured that for ten years without any comparable prior, or contemporary role model!

People endlessly doubt and criticize the great, because they do not understand what has to be done and how it has to be done. They endlessly lose sight of both the changing constraints of context and generally lack the ability to forecast accurately what adaptions those changes will require. And without grasping the end goal, Most folks can figure out what the goal is in something as simple as basketball, but few can define the ultimate objective that must be achieved in order for hard work, superior resources and luck to weigh fully in one's favor. Thus, they are reduced to criticizing and doubting, because that is what one tends to do when one is not yet clear about what to do.

One of the reasons I often find your posts worthy of praise is that you often appear to understand and appreciate the difference between ultimate objective attainment and desirable goal outcome.

Self winning rings is the desirable goal outcome that will at the end of his career define his ranking, even though as Dean Smith told Roy, after Dean won his ring, I am the same coach today as I was before I won the ring. It is the nature of a profession. The lasting ranking of generals and Admirals and Presidents and Kings, and PMs and CEOs are not defined by any one awesome performance. They are determined by the scope and duration of their towering dominance. For this reason, John Wooden is king, even though Allen brought more to the game, Rupp purified it, Iba influenced it for the longest, Dean corporatized it to modern program organization, Knight distilled the strategic principles of each position and their interplay most clearly, and Consonants won the most games. Wooden totally dominated every aspect of the game for 11 years; that is longer than anyone. And if one wants to introduce Sam Gilbert into the mix, one need only respond that all the muckraking books I have found the last five years indicate that Wooden only stepped up to what most every major program was already doing, when Wooden merely began to level the recruiting playing field.

Which brings me back to Self.

Self, if we are to believe our own public relations, has done something truly extraordinary. He has run a clean program for ten years at KU, as Wooden did his first ten years of not winning rings, and won at a higher rate than Wooden, and won a ring that Wooden did not win. This is nothing short of phenomenal. He has out-won in percentage terms, Bob Knight, the previous definitive non-cheating big winner in his first ten years at Indiana. Knight may have won one more ring that first ten years, though.

Knight eventually collected 4 rings reputedly without cheating, so Self has a way to go to catch the master of the straight and narrow.

I am to lazy to check out Consonants first ten years. I suspect Consonants might have had a comparable first ten years at a major. And he has won 4-5 rings. So: again, Self has his work cut out for catching another reputed non cheater.

Among other reputed non cheaters, there are Dean and Roy. Self is one ring from equalling and two from exceeding them. Equalling at least seems probable.

But you make a key point: to win again, he has figure out the Madness principles and the logics required to make them operational come crunch time.

Self was not a great player. Neither were the other great coaches mentioned above, except for Wooden. Wooden understood profoundly what playing great required. But understanding it, did not grant him the instant ability to coach players to great team AND great individual performances simultaneously. And there in lies the key to greatness of the greatest of the great coaches. He learned how to get great team play and great individual play simultaneously and more often than anyone before or since. It isn't even close.

Self not having been a great player seems to have driven him to substitute probabilities and strategy for that lack of first hand experience of how to get great team play and great individual play simultaneously. In this regard, Self is not different than Knight, or Consonants, Smith, or Williams, or Rupp, or Allen, or other great coaches. Self has just systematized the substitution of statistical explanations for team and individual play.

The moment I heard Self say that everyone plays good a third of the time, bad a third of the time, and mediocre a third of the time, I feared for his ring accrual in the long term. I feared he was conceding too much to the probability distribution to ever find a way to bias it to attaining the ultimate objective sharply in his favor.

The ultimate objective is now for me creating teams capable of simultaneous great team and individual performances under high stress circumstances against every kind of opponent for 6 games.

Self argues logically from his premise that that is impossible and so you train to grind on your mediocre and bad nights and rely on athleticism to fly high on your good ones, The only constant is defense. (Note: his apparent assumption that defense can be played great every game is either invalidated by his 1/3-1/3-1/3 premise, or could reasonably be extended to offense IMHO). And whenever you meet an under matched opponent, you send them out flat to skew the emotional distribution highest for the best opponents. This is 180 degrees opposite of one of the greatest players of the early era and greatest coach of all time. But Self is one of a long line of great coaches that have made that assumption to more or less of a degree. Self has just purified it to stark essence.

Self's brilliant, transposition of Wooden took great genius on his part. But great genius, while it is something I marvel at and admire, is rarely the personality type that consistently stays on the mountain top for long periods.

Orson Welles made the greatest movie of all time. Every movie he made evidenced his demigod level of genius. But in the end, Orson Welles was not the greatest director of film history.

Self made Wooden's choice after the 2012 runner up title. He took the probably repulsive (to him) steps needed to level the playing field in terms of recruiting.

But he has NOT done something Wooden also did.

He has not radically altered his defensive strategy from half to full court defense, or some equally radical alternative.

And he remains wed to the 1/3-1/3-1/3 philosophy that generates high winning percentage but with an obvious structural error factor over the course of six games that Wooden's principles and logics of endless pursuit of peak performance at both team an individual level came to eliminate.

Wooden's teams did not have to get hot for 4, or 6 games. Wooden's teams were trained and programmed to operate at maximum efficiency all the time, whether they were shooting it well or not. Emotional lows and players with widely swinging personalities were selected out. Wooden sought players with fire in their bellies, because he knew how he had learned to direct the fire in himself to sustain burning intensity for as many games as it took and not one but several of his teams went undefeated. Wooden would absolutely kick ass in today's 6 game tournament. He would easily win 10, maybe 15 rings in a row in this format, because this format practically guaranties the early outs of so many great coaches that approach the game from a wide swinging level of play, rather than consistency, as Wooden did. Self's 1/3-1/3-1/3 approach is being modeled by so many now. Everyone believes the psych research that peak performance is not sustainable that they ignore the fact that Wooden proved it was for up to 30 games a season and most definitely for short bursts of 4 to 10 games.

Self cannot be Wooden.

But he can evolve who he is as Wooden evolved who he was.

Self has already taken the first step by leveling the recruiting playing field as much as he can.

But now he has to find a way to take the 1/3-1/3-1/3 from a March weakness to a March strength. He has lead everyone into its weakness. Now he has to be the first one to figure out a way beyond it.

He has to in effect draw two graphs: one of team performance and one of individual performance. They have to coincide with lower lows. That is all, but that is everything. No more inefficient wasting of high individual performances on lesser teams. No more inefficiently low team performances. A higher foundation has to be built in level of minimum performance expectation.

There can be no more superstar performances like Andrew Wiggins against Stanford ever again. There can be no more Thomas Robinson first halves against UK in 2012 again. Our fans foolishly focus on the weak link hypothesis that has always proven fallacious in all forms of strategy; that any organization can be no better than its weakest link. Fallacious! A team is no stronger than the lowest level of performance of its best three players. All glue men can always be compensated for. The only fatal flaw in any team is its great players playing at less than their best when their best is needed. Period. That is the bottom line on that issue. Everyone has to be at their best when they need their best, but the glue guys by definition are going to get pasted from time to time. And those times are when the great players on the team have to play to their potential. They have to show up with competitive greatness of a kind Self probably never once evidenced himself, because he was at most a slightly above average player.

It does no good to recruit great players and then coach them to perform according to assumptions about normal players.

Self has to let go of the idea that great players are 1/3-1/3-1/3 types and coaching them accordingly. Andrew Wiggins didn't need button pushing. He needed great expectations and benching until he would play to his potential. Period. Great players have to play great every time their competitive greatness is needed. They have to do it within the team scheme. And they have to do it now. Chamberlain and Jabbar and Russell and Robertson were great the moment they stepped on the floor, because they required to be by their coaches. Great players playing great only occasionally either are not great players, or being told to protect the merchandize. A great team cannot get near winning a ring without great players playing great. It is axiomatic.

It was clear that Andrew Wiggins was a new level of greatness Self had no clue about. He admitted it. But Self had to go through such a contact to learn what he didn't know he didn't know. When Wooden finally got great players he understood their greatness completely. Like Knight, Smith, Williams, and others, Self has to learn about greatness of players, because he wasn't one.

But Self also has to find a new unfair advantage strategically, too.

Easy to say, hard to do. Wooden couldn't bring himself to press until his job was in danger and Jerry Norman convinced him to do it by testing it on the JV. Self has no JV. Not having a JV is really killing innovation in basketball. Young coaches produce innovations. They need a low cost environment to innovate. Self cannot afford to do it in prime time, but he also cannot afford not to innovate for the home stretch run of his career. If he doesn't, he will wind up like Knight. Tilting at windmills of corruption, or "teaching the game," instead of advancing it decisively.

But with all my comments, the point remains: Self is LSD on wood as a protean force in the game. He keeps changing in ways we don't catch for months or years after. The last season or two the acid seems to have weakened some, but in fact the magnitude of the changes he is making are greater now than at any time of his career. He is a genius in basketball coaching. If he doesn't burn out, some more great things to marvel at are in store.

But to win the rings, he has to fix the error factor in March inherent in the 1/3-1/3-1/3 approach.

And he has to come up with an unfair advantage strategically.

Do those two things, with the leveled recruiting playing field, and we're looking at another King.

Fail to, and we are looking at a genius that may or may not win another ring.

It up to Bill and to do it he has to have the kind of steeled will that Wooden had to continue to develop under control in the face of crazy idolization and crazy criticism.

Nothing I am saying is intended as criticism of him however this plays out. KU basketball is blessed to have the guy for as long he can do what he already does. Anything else is icing for this fan.

Wooden made it clear.

Greatness in coaching team sports is based on the embrace of the paradox of great team play and great individual play simultaneously occurring.

He also made another paradox abundantly clear, one few recall.

One cannot win rings by focusing on winning rings.

One can only win rings by focusing on what it takes to win rings and working until one cans sustain mastery of what it takes at a higher level than can other opponents one faces.

There in lies the mystery of basketball.

And perhaps of life.

β€œI want to win." β€’ Jun 29, 2014 07:34 AM

Lebron's game won't work with a dominant center any better than Jordan's would have, or Bird's would have.

Riles created the ideal club for Lebron and now it has aged and has to be refitted.

Dominant centers and dominant 3s rarely can optimize each other.

To optimize both or three dominant players on the same team there are two historic heuristics.

Heuristic A: A dominant center needs a great power forward and a good point guard and shooting glue elsewhere.

Heuristic B: a dominant 3 needs a dominant 2, or vice versa, plus an unselfish point guard, a dominant 4 and a physical but mobile defense oriented 5.

Step outside these heuristics and you rarely optimize all your great players on a team.

Napier was not drafted to keep Lebron. Napier was drafted because Lebron is likely to leave and Riles thinks with Lebron gone it's easier to find a dominant center to go with Napier, than try build another 2/3 driven team. There is only one Lebron a generation. He is freakishly rare like Jordan.

Now, with Napier for a rainy day, Riles has to keep it from raining by signing Carmelo to keep the 2/3 axis structure that Lebron requires and use Wade off the bench.

Most any journeyman center will do. Bosh needing replacement is the fly in the ointment: not enough cash to add Melo and a great 4. So Lebron likely leaves.

If Lebron leaves, then Riles unloads Bosh too, spends a wad on a dominant center and picks up a late career power forward and is ready to go.

One thing is: Chalmers fits well off the bench in all these plans, if Mario is smart and extends his career by shortening his PT and cutting his salary, now.

Riles completely knows what he is doing.

Lebron needs his Scottie Pippen, or it won't work in Miami...or anywhere else.

Joel Embiid: Meet ESPN under reporting! β€’ Jun 29, 2014 06:27 AM

@JayHawkFanToo

Did you read my post? I was talking about headlines. πŸ˜‡

Does this betray your apparent "fixation" on marginalizing discourse about Petro-ShoeCos? 😱

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 28, 2014 09:07 PM

@nuleafjhawk

"element of surprise"

Perfectly said.

I'm not down on Marshall. I hope he proves to be a great coach. The game needs great coaches and the more the better. But they have to actually have a great record before we hardened old veterans hang the honor on them. :-)

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 28, 2014 09:03 PM

@KansasComet

Oh, you lucky devil!!! I am so glad for you. Are you island hopping and swimming every day in that beautiful water?

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 28, 2014 06:43 PM

@KUSTEVE

Not a theory, just an hypothesis.

Rather than smear the hypothesis, propose a counter hypothesis that better explains the data; i.e., why Marshall in Wichita, KS, and with such a brief run of good teams, is ranked within 2 of Self.

I am willing to listen.

I actually tried to come up with something better and could not. It just seems a glaring, almost absurd anomaly that Marshall would be ranked only two slots behind Self. Either Self is too low, or Marshall too high, or some of both.

One other hypothesis I tried was: ESPN is trying to fuel some controversy between Self and Marshall from last season, but I just didn't see any payoff there for ESPN. I mean national click whores don't fight for clicks in Kansas. They fight for them in high population density regions.

And, oh, my, how you underestimate the reputed history of corporate media making powerful corporate allies whenever and wherever they can. :-)

Bill Self 6. Gregg Marshall 8. ESPN 0. β€’ Jun 28, 2014 05:01 AM

Bill Self just got slapped in the face twice by ESPN.

First, he gets picked sixth best coach. To quote Marvin Gaye...

Oh, make you wanna holler
The way they do my life
Make me wanna holler
The way they do my life

Let's put this in perspective. Self is the winningest coach the last 5 years. His ten year record at KU is .825. Ten straight conference titles. One ring. The guy was .733 at Tulsa. He was .765 at Illinois. He was only .505 at ORU, but .505 and building to a 21 win season at ORU without cheating is like winning .950 at any other mid major.

And its the apparent lack of cheating that should catapult Self to number 2 on the ESPN list, behind Coach Consonants. Most anyone can win, if they (or those they claim not to know about) cheat enough. Think of Calipari. He reached the national finals playing guys that he didn't know didn't even take their own SATs. And Self beat him and all of his ringers he didn't know about. Hell, Self almost beat Calipari in the national finals the next time they met, when Self didn't have a single Mickey D, or OAD on the roster. Hell, Self almost beat Cal with Conner Teahan. Right there, Self is the best coach in the country. Period.

One face slap from ESPN ought to be enough, right?

WRONG!

Second, Gregg Marshall gets ranked eighth best. Putting Marshall on any list with Self is a joke. Gregg Marshall may be the second best mid major coach behind Mark Few the last couple years, but the 8th best D1 coach overall?

NOT!

Ranking Self 6th and Marshall 8th makes absolutely certain that ESPN's rankings mean zero.

Self is .825 in 10 years at KU.

Marshall is .710 in 7 seasons at--drum roll puhlease--Koch State, er, Wichita State.

Here is what what there is to say about ESPN ranking Gregg Marshall the eight best coach in D1.

Hypothesis: Koch PR.

The funny thing about outfits like ESPN appearing to jerk persons like Self, and schools like KU, around, is that when they appear to do it, they appear to make themselves look like idiots.

Rock Chalk!

Headlinez/Counterheadlinez 6.28.14 β€’ Jun 28, 2014 04:18 AM

ESPN: Martin transferring to SMU, eligible to play

JSN: In which LB knocked last season, and kicks the door down this.

ESPN: Indiana unveils student-athlete bill of rights

JSN: Chastened by a $20M settlement to avoid a precedent setting legal loss in Ed O'Bannon's suit that in layman's terms said something close to the NCAA had been stealing from players, university lawyers and media consultants appear to go into damage control mode and make low cost gestures that should have been made long ago, and which in a just world would be sued retroactively for to recover damages in the interest of ALL former players wrongly subjected to one year education contract "scholarships" (as who can graduate in one season?)

ESPN: Niagara forward Thomas transferring to Miami

JSN: In which Larranaga tries to get off the ropes after a 17-16 season.

Joel Embiid: Meet ESPN under reporting! β€’ Jun 28, 2014 03:53 AM

@JayHawkFanToo

Ya know, I wish what you write were true.

But we both know it doesn't appear to be.

ESPN DOES appear to underreport KU, and over report big market teams, whenever there is a choice between KU and clicks, between KU and eyeballs, between KU and Nike teams.

ESPN didn't need a feed to make a headline that reported the REAL news of the evening; that KU produced the first and third draft choices and that Embiid was the third round draft choice on a broken foot and coming off a back injury!!!!

The first thing that needs to happen with any group that experiences prejudice is for them to become aware of it in the first place, and not accept it as the way things are and have to remain.

Nothing is written.

β€˜Where’s Felipe?’ β€’ Jun 27, 2014 03:29 PM

@drgnslayr

Damn straight you could help him.

Joel Embiid: Meet ESPN under reporting! β€’ Jun 27, 2014 01:52 PM

ESPN headlines headline picks 1, 2, 4 and 7, but don't mention Joel at 3, or KU at 1 and 3. You have to drill down in Wigs story for Joel and KU.

ESPN STRIKES AGAIN!!!!!

WIGGINS # 1 and EMBIID # 3 β€’ Jun 27, 2014 02:43 AM

@JayhawkRock78

True true!

β€˜Where’s Felipe?’ β€’ Jun 27, 2014 02:30 AM

Slayr, thanks for this insightful, elegiac post.

But stay positive. Kids always save the game in unforeseeable ways! I forgot this the other day in my despair about Embiid.

When the urban ballers took on the game, there was great sadness about the passing of the great farm ball players. You know: the lost pastoral individualism of farm boys like my father working tirelessly on a basket in a farm yard in Autumn with wheat stubble and corn stalks beyond. Training by running through small town graveyards and across railroad river bridges with the whistle wailing in the distance. This really happened less than a century ago. Remembering my dad talk about playing it in his small town makes me cry right now. He said it wasn't the small town boys he venerated. It was the farm boys all alone endlessly working to perfect their games in lonely isolation that he venerated.

No one told the farm boys to consecrate the game. They did it out of love and isolation and the need to be good at something in a world that wastes young boys and ignores them to death.

Then the people and the game moved to cities, to inner cities and suburbs. The game needed consecrating again. No one told the poor black and white city kids to save the game again. Especially no one told the descendants of slaves to do it. The boys did it because that is what boys do. They brim with beautiful fury.

Boys finally won the Civil War, slayr, not generals, or Presidents, or Morgan and the Rothschilds. Boys did it. Lincoln knew this. Read the Gettysburg address. They consecrated the ground and the nation. Only boys can do this.

The beauty of basketball is they can consecrate it without being blown to bits.

You and I are right to love them and perhaps you more than me. You played with them more than I did. They changed a country more lastingly and more deeply than all the freedom marches did.

The inner city boys you rightly venerate consecrated the game again. And our country.

And now the game moves to suburbs and third world countries and once again boys will consecrate the game.

Rock Chalk, slayr.

WIGGINS # 1 and EMBIID # 3 β€’ Jun 27, 2014 01:50 AM

Well, at least I can still pick a #1. I said behind all the sandbagging, he was still the prettiest girl at this dance. But it took me a few months of post season detox to see it clearly.

I didn't predict Joel, but I would have said 7-9 because of the injury and been wrong!

KU.,..ON... THE...MAP!!!!!

Baseless Basketball Rumors β€’ Jun 26, 2014 10:37 PM

@truehawk93

True...

You did it better than I did!!!

I am getting to be completely dispensible!

Keep making us laugh.

Not sure if folks realize what a perilous thread our great country hangs by right now.

We need laughter again to see this through.

Rock Chalk!

Baseless Basketball Rumors β€’ Jun 26, 2014 12:35 PM

@ParisHawk

LOL!

So you got the summer blues? β€’ Jun 25, 2014 10:13 PM

@ralster

Now that was a helluva post!

So you got the summer blues? β€’ Jun 25, 2014 10:11 PM

Summer is NOT the problem!

No ball is the widow maker. 😱

Baseless Basketball Rumors β€’ Jun 25, 2014 10:08 PM

@drgnslayr

Anytime, slayr, updates are on me!

I have been thoroughly enjoying your and others posts. Learning lots as usual.

Baseless Basketball Rumors β€’ Jun 25, 2014 08:28 PM

Bill Self is only recruiting Thon Maker to get his brother Matur Maker.

When Bill Self admits Cin has been calling the offenses and defenses all along, the Oklahoma City Thunder will hire Cindy Self as the first woman head coach in the NBA.

Joel Embiid has been faking the injuries as a practical joke that only Cameroonians get.

Perry Ellis will work at the Magic Castle in LA this summer to learn how to make himself reappear.

The first KU perimeter player to shoot 40% from 3 point range for a season will win the Brady Morningstar award.

Jamari Traylor will be listed at 6-9 and 290 this season.

The KU player that avoids injury the entire season will receive the Andrew Wiggins/Xavier Henry Award for Best Merchandize Protection.

Brannen Greene is the leading candidate for the "3 Switched to a 4 for the good of the team" award.

Svi Mykhailiuk will start a fad in Ukrainean cuisine in Lawrence that will lead to fans eating Borshch soup with Babkas and Bubliks. Concessions at a stand called Baja Kiev will serve Varenyky, Pyrizchky, Holubtsi, Miynsi, Pyrih, Studenetz, Guliash, and Kovbasa. Deserts will include Kutia, Pampushky, Syrnyky, Kyjivskyj, Zhele, and Varennya. The chaser will be Nalyvka.

Naadir Tharpe will rejoin the team and change his major to selfie journalism.

Tyler Self will be listed as a 6-7 and 249 pound lead guard.

Connner Frankamp's scalp will be declared eligible for social security.

Landen Lucas has committed to making an impact this season wearing a crimson mouth piece.

Hunter Mickelson will develop a top of circle three point shot, claim to convert to Bill Laimbeerism, and begin talking about KU being a bunch of Bad Boys.

Bill Self will wear corn rows until the next national championship.

Kurtis Townsend will become the first assistant coach to step up to head coach in his 80s.

Norm Roberts will not be forgiven by Billy Donovan for jacking Embiid out from under Donovan.

Jerrance Howard will have his Krispy Kreme ration halved and dance better with the team after wins.

Fred Quartlebaum will reveal that he is the lineal descendent of L. Frank Quartlebaum, the man who wrote the "The Basketball Wizard of Oz."

jaybate will reveal that there is no place like home, except when the Deep State calls in a drone strike.

The original Naismith rules will not be displayed until the last JFK assassination records are released in 2200.

(Note: all fiction and satire. No malice.)

Headlinez/Counterheadlinez β€’ Jun 25, 2014 05:42 AM

ESPN: Ex-Baylor C Austin has $1M insurance policy

JSN: Thank heavens. Does Embiid have one?

ESPN : Cincy coach Cronin gets a new 7-year deal

JSN: Any man that turns down NC State, Illinois, and Minnesota to stay at UCinn must really value the advantages of recruiting to a private school, right?

ESPN: U.S. trounces Canada to win U-18 hoops title

JSN: U.S. winning margin averaged +57 for five games; who says the world is closing the gap?

ESPN: Congress hikes scrutiny on NCAA's actions

JSN: FEMA COG tells Congress its all secret; maybe NCAA could try it, too.

ESPN: USC to expand scholarships to four years.

JSN: This just means players don't have to go to class for four years at USC.

ESPN: Ex-Oregon players suspended as students

JSN: "Just don't do it."

Seven Footer visits KU β€’ Jun 25, 2014 05:18 AM

Maker fascinates because he is a face up scorer that also seems to have the knack of shot blocking.

He's an ideal stretch 4 with a bruiser at 5.

But OMG, will the blue meanies throw this guy on his spine at will!

Thon better not reclassify. He needs all the time to add weight and muscle he can get.