On Wigs:
Wiggins is still the guy to bet the farm on, if you are an NBA franchise.
Any guy that could put up the numbers he did, while appearing to massively protect the merchandize, has to have some incredible game to show the NBA.
Develop his trey and teach him Kobe's game, and he will get you five NBA rings, if you put him with a good center or two.
Remember Greg Oden?
Oden was a much further developed basketball player than Embiid at the same stage. Then knee injury ensued. Oden left the game. Then he came back as a Heat reclamation project.
Embiid has much better athleticism, but Oden was no slouch. People forget how good Oden was pre-injury. Unlike Embiid, he had a decent menu of offensive moves in the post. And he was just as good, or probably better at guarding the post and rim protecting.
It will take Embiid a minimum of two to three years of hard development work to get as good as Oden was coming out.
Then think about the injury circumstance--he has lower back problems--the worst kind of back problems to have. They were so bad he could not come back and play for a team with a shot at tournament run! So: he's got a problem back even if it has healed enough for him to work out for teams. Think about that problem back taking 2-3 years of punishment just to get him developed enough to be as good as Oden was coming out. Make a guesstimate of the odds of his back becoming symptomatic again over the next three years, say around the time you have sunk 3 years of costs into him.
Next, his foot (or is it ankle?) is broken and he's out for 3-4 months after draft night. I broke a collar bone, and arm above the elbow, and three different fingers. These breaks never slowed me down once they healed. Then I busted up my ankle on a motorcycle. Not a compound fracture, just a good crack in two different bones. My foot still doesn't work totally right and I got the best PT you could get at the time.
If you're a money baller, you know, a play the odds kind of organization, you say PASS!
You say, "Worst case scenario we pass and he turns out to be a hall of famer. So what? Chamberlain only won two rings. Jabbar won 6 but it was with two teams and he had to play 20 seasons to do it. Jabbar never had a lower back injury and he never busted up his foot either. The chances of Embiid playing 20 NBA seasons, when he can't even stay healthy one D1 season and one off season are slim and none. So: worst case we pass and he gets 3 rings in ten seasons. Big flipping deal! We can win a couple of rings another way. Same logic when compared with Duncan. Duncan has 5 rings in 20 seasons. He's never been injury prone. Embiid plays 20 seasons in what parallel universe? Worst case again--we pass and Embiid plays ten seasons and wins 3. Big deal!
And then there is Shaq Father. 4 rings in 19 seasons and a number of injuries. Eh, Shaq weighed 325 and they let him take 5-6 steps each time he ran over people with the ball. It just doesn't seem a fitting comparison.
Of course you could always roll out the Big Russ analogy. 11 rings in 13 seasons. But Big Russ was kind of a special case, too, wasn't he? Two NCAA rings. Averaged 22 rebounds per game for his pro career. never injured and inserted into an organization that had already been great without him. Not a good comparison.
The only teams that can logically afford to draft Embiid high are teams that are already top teams that could benefit from a back up rim protector to their starting rim protector for a few seasons. Embiid playing backup could give them the edge to win a few rings early and be a guy they could gamble on beating the injury odds and playing 15-20 years, once he learns the game. That's a money ball play. But to draft him to be a franchise player in three years for a franchise that is in a total rebuild is a sucker move. You get no rings up front. And you face a high risk of him never developing. And your whole rebuild goes in the tank, if he doesn't develop.
This situation I have just described is why I was so pissed that Embiid was not protected and groomed slowly for two seasons at KU to get him into a healthy, developed status that would make him an indispensable Number 1 to every NBA team in the league.
Embiid has greatness in him. He has that something extra in his personality that all the great ones have. But the injuries put every ounce of him in jeopardy IMHO.
GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
The only down side I can see to Embiid outside of his injuries is his age. Is he really the age they claim? Or is he older? Older would really make him a scary risk.
But what the hay? Oden is back being reclaimed by Riles. Maybe if Riles drafts Embiid, he can have twin towers in a couple of years. But will the be faulty towers?
ESPN: Embiid out 4-6 months for foot, source says
JSN: Next Chamberlain, or next Walton
ESPN: Big Ten head: No Rose Bowl if players paid
JSN: Says conference will fold and no Rose Bowl, if players paid: the odds of this are slimmer than the earth being swallowed by a black hole tomorrow.
ESPN: Ware gets waiver to play for Georgia State
JSN: Slick d'Ville's Kevin Ware goes from Some Ware to No Ware
ESPN: Charlotte coach recovering from eye surgery
JSN: In the kingdom of the blind...
ESPN: Tate George sentencing delayed until August
JSN: Borrowing from Peter to pay Ponzi?
ESPN: Wyoming's Shyatt reaches 5-year extension
JSN: 70-58 will get you $3.6M over 5, nice work if you can get it.
ESPN: Marist names DIII's Maker head hoops coach
JSN: 82% in D-III will get you to Marist, then what?
ESPN: Rock Chalk USA: KU to represent U.S. abroad
JSN: When you need to stop a losing streak, call the Minister of Defense.
ESPN: Nebraska coach Miles fined for negligent driving
JSN: Negligence = Driving Under the Influence of Not Caring?
ESPN: Hickey transfers to Oklahoma State from LSU
JSN: A Ford not a Lincoln gets a Hickey not a Smart.
ESPN: Penn St. AD retires effective Aug. 1
JSN: Enough child molestation guilt, let's win.
ESPN: Samuels to coach penalty-riddled Florida A&M
JSN: MU's Winslow new A&M AD wants his own man to introduce Antlerism to an unsuspecting program?
ESPN: Ex-Cowboy won't be retried in assault case
JSN: appeals court throws out former OSU player's conviction of rape by instrumentation--don't even ask.
(Note: All satire. No malice.)
He'll be in Toronto, one way, or another.
And I expect him to play vastly better than he did at KU.
I think once the advisors let him play, he will fulfill a lot of expectations.
No way did we see the real Wigs.
I believe we just saw the merchandize being protected, except for a couple games.
But he is going to have to learn to dribble with both hands and shoot the trey, or be known as the next Lebron that never was.
Jack Hairless.
Not one single follicle on could be found on his scrotum after that prediction.
Not one single ball could be found in his sack.
Not one single neuron in the brain case.
In essence, he sodomized himself on one of the columns without lubricant.
Way to go, Jack, way to reduce yourself to brain death.
Thanks for posting the list. I found it too degrading to the coaching profession (and too annoying to me) to watch the names of these guys be reeled out one by one, like the Top Ten Bimbettes, or the Top Ten Fashion Faux Pauxs on a People Magazine web site, just so clicks could be maximized.
Regarding 25 through 50, Scott Drew and Josh Pastner being on the list make me sure that who ever did it must have trouble finding their glutes with both mitts.
Putting Bruce Weber ahead of Rick Barnes is like putting Bean ahead of John Gielgud on a list of best actors.
Tubbie, ranked behind anyone without a ring, even though I'm not a Tubbie fan, is the equivalent of putting Lewis Black ahead of Steve Martin on a list of comics.
Mick Cronin is obviously too high.
Jim Crews ahead of Lon Kruger? How about Gomer Pyle ahead of Pavarotti.
Tim Miles ahead of Tad Boyle? Only Tim's mother would think that, and only then after a nightcap.
I agree with you that leaving Crean and Altman off the list borders on double capital offense, but Martin, who I was once very high on, has yet to fulfill my hopes for him and White and Dawkins are at best coin flip adds to 25 through 40.
Looking at 24-11, well, McKillop is better than McDermott, Amaker, and Matta, even coaching with a kidney stone and a blind fold.
Putting Matta ahead of Larry Brown is a slap in the face to one of the game's all time greats. Larry could literally meet his maker, leave his seat empty during an SMU-Ohio State match-up, and Larry's flipping memory would out coach Thad Thimble Brains.
Fisher deserves his own list. The slimy list.
Hoiberg, much as I like him and think he is a good coach, deserves to be ahead of Roy Williams only in the mind of a syphillitic.
Tony Bennett ahead of Roy? Tony's got po, but Roy's a a sure hall of famer with two rings. Someone at ESPN must really have it in for ol' Roy.
Shaka Smart's only claim to fame is upsetting Bill Self the day after KU got gassed playing Richmond. Smart is above average, but he really hasn't done diddledy squat to be above 50 through 25.
Stumpy Miller ahead of Roy and Boeheim? This is like ranking Moe Howard above Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr.
Among the guys left, Marshall needs to be down at about 30...maybe.
Ollie is too new to be ranked higher than 10 through 15.
Bellein, though a fine coach, is a cut under everyone else I have not mentioned on your remaining list.
Ryan deserves to be above Bellein.
Brown and Williams should be on the Top Ten list, or there is no basketball god.
Calipari ought to be on a WWW list, but he won a ring the wrong way, so he's got to go somewhere.
Consonants, though I loath him, has to be on top until he quits.
Self has to win another ring to go higher than 3rd, even though I think he is the best coach the last five years.
Ratso, Pitino, and Donovan are tied for second until Self leap frogs them with another ring or two.
Outta here.
Good question. Its not how many minutes you play. Its how much you pull your punches to avoid injury. Xavier and Andrew appeared for many, many games of their respective OAD seasons to go soft to iron, or not at all. At the very least, they were not big risk takers like, say, Sherron Collins, or Tyshawn Taylor.
There were a few games each player seemed to select as times to show off what they really could do at the iron. But for most of the season both players at least appeared not to go to the iron and risk injury as much as their talent would appear to have permitted them to do.
The Stanford game stands out in my memory, regarding Wiggins, only because it is so fresh, but I would guess that a half to two thirds of the game tapes would reveal very little risky play by Andrew, and probably as much, or more, conservatism in the games by Xavier. This issue of not going hard to iron often is a necessarily speculative, hypothesizing kind of topic unless the players were to come out and confirm it, which they would frankly have no reason that I can think of to do. But that is how it appears to me in retrospect.
But now recall Joel's play up until his absence due to injury. Joel was in there mixing it up inside, he appeared to be going into harm's way where the blue meanies roughed him up good, and frequently. He went to them. He attacked where he was sure to get roughed up. It was, when combined with his height and athleticism, a big part of what allowed him to be dominant as a freshman center with few skills, and little experience.
Compare that with Xavier and Andrew. Now, I know that they play different positions than Joel, but you know how rough it is on perimeter guys that drive the iron. Heck, you know how tough it was on Andrew the games that he went to iron with any regularity. He actually looked scared at times from the way they punked him, and I for one, reckon he probably should have felt scared by some of the tactics used. I recall at least two times when opposing players just smashed him in the face before he ever went up. If you go inside from the perimeter, you get beat up, whether or not you get a bucket and a free throw. And if you go airborne they try their damnedest at times to bring you down hard. And coming down hard on wood is the way to get badly injured, as Joel learned the hard way.
For some more perspective, recall the way Tyshawn Taylor went to iron. Recall that he did it almost every game and on most of his touches. Get the image of TT's willingness to risk everything fixed in your mind; then recall Andrew Wiggins and Xavier Henry. Both Wiggins and Henry had more size and bigger hops and longer first and second steps than TT had. Either guy could have gone to iron at will in D1; that was a big part of why they were called OADs. They were NBA ready. And in fact for a couple of games Andrew Wiggins proved the he could do it all game. But man did he pay for it!
Now, recall Andrew's couple of games, where he went to iron at will ALL game, and then remember him in the Stanford game. Got those two moments fixed in your mind? Good.
Now I'm not going to ask you to try to read Andrew's mind and motivations and decide whether or not he and his advisors decided should sand bag against Stanford, since, oh, I don't know, let's make something up, shall we? Since maybe Joel, or a someone advising Joel, some how signaled Self and the team before the Stanford game that maybe Joel wasn't coming back even if they beat Stanford. Just a hypothetical for the sake of argument. Who knows what actually happened.
What I want to ask you to assess is this: did he take more abuse and face more injury risk in the games when he was going to iron at will all game, or in the Stanford game where he frequently (mostly?) stood outside and watched the action?
My hypothesis about this apparent phenomenon is that super talented players are (in some cases) counseled to protect the merchandise unless they are playing in a showcase game, where there is something to be gained by risking the merchandize. And when there isn't something to be gained, they appear to protect the merchandize.
If what I am hypothesizing were to prove true, it would mean that knowledgeable persons looking out for the best interests of super talented players probably judge D1 to be too dangerous to play all out.
So: since I believe (rightly or wrongly) that Joel Embiid was the greatest raw center talent since Wilt, and so a much more valuable and much more rare talent than either Wiggins, or Henry, that he should have been being advised and coached to protect the merchandize all season so that he could have a reasonable chance of conditioning his body, and developing his skills, experience and anticipation, to levels, where he could play in D1 on equal footing with the blue meanies from the standpoint of dishing it out, while also protecting himself. And then after he finally acquired that kind of development of his game that, because of his rare talent, he should probably have been advised to protect the merchandise the way Andrew and Xavier at least appeared to do, whether or not they really did.
But to reiterate, the above is all only hypothesizing by a fan.
XCLT point. Dummy should be reserved for his advisors and I would exclude from the dummy list his parents. If its their first kid in the situation, parents, unless they have played D1, or the pros, cannot know what it is like to play at that level and so have to trust advisors to some degree. Only those that are taking fees from him, or trying to, and those that are otherwise paid to know something about college and professional basketball, deserve to be labelled dummies, or functional morons, or imbeciles, or whore fops in suits.
FROM "ON THE WATERFRONT"
Charley Malloy: Look, kid, I - how much you weigh, son? When you weighed one hundred and sixty-eight pounds you were beautiful. You coulda been another Billy Conn, and that skunk we got you for a manager, he brought you along too fast.
Terry Malloy: It wasn't him, Charley, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and you said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." You remember that? "This ain't your night"! My night! I coulda taken Wilson apart! So what happens? He gets the title shot outdoors on the ballpark and what do I get? A one-way ticket to Palooka-ville! You was my brother, Charley, you shoulda looked out for me a little bit. You shoulda taken care of me just a little bit so I wouldn't have to take them dives for the short-end money.
Charley Malloy: Oh I had some bets down for you. You saw some money.
My seething has to do with the greatness of the talent that has perhaps been squandered. Embiid is the greatest raw talent at 7 feet I have seen since Wilt. Period. Its really not even close.
Reducing Embiid's freshman season to putting the team on his back, when he was so new to the game and from another culture, and had not had years of practice and conditioning in the game was a sin. And sin like success has many fathers. The team was put on his back, and so he was made a target, because Wiggins advisors appeared to refuse to let Wiggins carry the team on his back, in order to keep him from being THE TARGET. They were smart. The team was put on Embiid's back, before he was ready, because KU and Self had a title string to try to continue. It is appalling to think about it. Maybe the greatest talent of the last half century was put in harms way to win a lousy B12 title. Someone shoulda looked after Joel.
Reducing his go/stay decision to grabbing money ASAP appears incompetence of a high order, also. Great talent in any field has to be nurtured and protected for the good of the person with the talent and for the good of the field. It does not matter if we are talking about a brilliant young mathematician, a child prodigy artist, or a one in a billion basketball talent.
I don't think people still grasp how rare Embiid is/was. Wilt was better only because he had played the game since early youth, played on the playgrounds of Phillie, played in the Rucker league in NY, played summers at the hotel leagues in New York state, and been schooled and advised by every great basketball coach including Red Auerbach BEFORE he got to KU. Wilt Chamberlain and Karreem Jabbar were groomed from early childhood to become what they became. They were in the right places at the right times to be "developed."
Embiid in contrast grew up in Africa playing soccer and volleyball. It is absolutely incredible what he has accomplished in basketball already. He still has no real clue how to play the game on a level of not having to think about what he is doing. He has no real intuition yet born from long experience about what is coming the next moment on the floor. He has no developed skills yet. And despite all of the above he was able to step on James Naismith Court and dominate games during reputedly the toughest schedule put together in college basketball in 10 to 20 years!!!!!!!
Embiid is so great that he was able to reduce the greatest prospect since Lebron, Andrew Wiggins, to just another leaping second option. JOEL EMBIID IS THE SECOND COMING OF WILT CHAMBERLAIN. But America, and college basketball, and KU, and Bill Self and Embiid's advisors, didn't develop him. Instead they PLAYED HIM FOR ALL HE WAS WORTH AND GOT HIM READY FOR THE MONEY AS FAST AS THEY COULD.
I did not think college basketball could sink any lower than it had by the year before Embiid arrived at KU. I thought the shoe whores, and bottom feeding agents, and agent runners, basketball factory academies, and summer game pimp-coaches, and the D1 thug ball coaches, and the media-gaming complex apparently shaping better expectations, and the private oligarchs reputedly buying the university's political economic influence through the back door of the fake 501.c3 athletic departments, and the covert ticket scalping scams to raise slush monies for all the crap the NCAA and university administrations look the other way at, had taken the greatest game ever invented all the way to the center circle of Dante jaybate's Basketball Inferno. I thought we were the full nine levels in. You know, college basketball evidences all of it now: limbo, lust, gluttony, anger, heresy, violence, fraud, and treachery, I thought we were all the way to treachery. And my street wise tour guide, with the urban ball scars, Virgil "Posterize" Jefferson had lead me to believe this was so But, no. There was a tenth level: the level of every evil at once--the betrayal of greatness--the squandering of Joel Embiid.
Embiid needed to be protected from the way D1 is played, not given a baptism of hell-fired violence. He needed to be taught how to "protect the merchandise" the way hugely less rare talents like Andrew Wiggins and Xavier Henry were taught. He needed to be taught that you do not risk great talent at the D1 level. EVER. You develop it there. You nurture it there. You NEVER expose it to the blue meanies there. You always pull your punches there. You run from contact there. You NEVER scarifice your body there for the game or the team. And you don't because the club fighters will try to end your career just for the hell of it there.
I loved college basketball once. I loved it when it was played within rational rules equitably applied, when the object of the game was not simply to reduce everyone to club fighters. College basketball had a sweetness and a love of the game that redeemed the occasional brutishness that comes with all competitive sports, when imperfect humans forget themselves in the heat of battle. Yes, they fouled and hacked Wilt to death in college. Yes, there were racists that meant him harm. But for the most part everyone understood that Wilt was a player for the ages and someone to marvel at, not someone to try to mug and to try to give a spinal fracture to.
D1 is no longer college ball. It is now the minor leagues and outside of ten to 15 right way programs D1 is basically a bunch of club fighters playing for bush league coaches teaching bruiser ball, because television companies and the always-crooked-somehow gaming industry find it easier to market blood sport than basketball and so encourage this pitiful, twisted excuse for a college game we currently endure. The powers that be are so corrupted now that even when they try to "get more scoring" they do it in the most twisted way possible--in a way that turns the rules even further into unfairness. The leaders of the game today don't have any more grasp of fairness and equity on which the game is supposed to be based than do a bunch of NeoCon and NeoLib guns for hire bought and paid for by private oligarchy. NONE. ZERO. ZIP.
Embiid wasn't protected. He was thrown on his back by thuggery as if he were just another big child let loose in palookaville meant to get the whizz beaten out of him "to learn him good." We are a nation run by valueless, ethic-free, special interest beholden "advisors" that have never actually done the jobs they advise about. It is this way in every field in America today. Only one in a hundred "advisors" has ever actually done anything well that they give advice about. They are professional idiots educated about something they have never done dispensing advice to truly talented persons that desperately need good advice and don't get it.
Embiid needed to be protected from Self's and our desires to win another title, to play the game the right way. The game isn't right any more. So playing the game the right way anymore makes no sense anymore for a great, great talent, maybe even for a regular talent, too. But he wasn't protected. And he wouldn't have been protected at any of the other right way programs either. Or at any of the wrong way programs. He was a walking dollar sign--a career score for coaches and advisors, and shoecos, and television--and that's all he was to them. A score. A quick score.
Andrew Wiggins apparently was properly advised every step of the way, apparently because he had a father, and mother, that understood the dangers of D1 sports. It made him look and play like a disingenuous free rider much of the time, but it worked. He got through without a spinal fracture, or any other injuries that could hamper him as a pro.
Xavier Henry was apparently protected every step of the way, because he too had a father that understood how the game has to be played with great talent in the current D1/NBA system, And, again, though such protection leads to playing vastly short of one's capabilities and makes the team less good than it should be, because those in the game, especially its rule makers and enforcers, are so corrupt, "protecting the merchandize" is now the only rational way for a great talent to approach D1.
Had Embiid protected the merchandize, he would never have gotten injured in the first place. Had Embiid been wisely protected, and nurtured, and counseled, he wouldn't be entering the draft with two injuries. He would instead probably have played 2 years of D1 ball at "protect the merchandize" speed, and worked endlessly in the gym at developing his basic skills and his basketball musculature to get him ready for the rigors of the NBA. KU probably wouldn't have won any rings with him "protecting the merchandise" the same way it won no rings with Wiggins and Henry protecting the merchandise, but at least the greatest center talent since Wilt Chamberlain would be injury free, and ready to take the game of basketball to the next new level that his great talent probably could have.
Once great talents like Chamberlain and Jabbar were valued for their rare greatness, at least when they were boys and young men. Sooner or later all get thrown to the dogs, but once upon a time in the American Basketball Inferno a basketball prodigy could be nurtured and developed instead of packaged and marketed and hurried to the ocntracts.
Oh, well, perhaps after this inferno, maybe a purgatorio and a paradiso wait to be written.
I can only hope.
If I use the same lens on Wigs folks use on Brady, here is how it appears....
I am hoping Wigs has his USA citizenship, so we can see him protect the merchandise, get bitch slapped by semi-pros, hold assists under 3 and intermittently disappear under international rules, too. Imagine his trey percentage with the stripe 2 feet farther out! At any moment he might get hot from 3 and make 35%. And if given 20 touches he might score a lot , but then objectively, he probably wouldn't take us any farther than Brady would based on a comparison of how the team did each of their first seasons starting. 😀
And the great thing is you can play this scratched lens, busted eye test comparison game with Brady vs SELBY, Brady vs Xavier, and Brady vs Travis, etc. in each of their first seasons starting. No, on second thought don't you dare play it with Travis, because he was all Jayhawk just like Brady was.
People need to give up the Brady bashing. He would easily have taken 20 mpg from Wigs last season (as he did from SELBY and XAVIER) and the team would have been much better had he been around. He probably would have played 35 minutes against Stanford and we probably would have won that game.
I don't see why board rats can't knock the high ceiling, low foundation hype guys and just leave quiet, low ceiling, high foundationed, good guarding, low TO, 40% trey shooting Brady alone. He played up to his abilities. The guys that need to be taken to task are the guys that DONT play up to theirs! And don't leave it all on the floor.
Travis and Brady are all good, all Jayhawk. They left it all on the floor. We would be so blessed to always have them on our teams.
Wigs, SELBY and X were just high ceiling low foundation types that punched the time clock a year because they could be a short term fix for a missing piece. They really don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breaths with Travis and Brady. Travis and Brady were all Jayhawk. Wigs, SELBY and. X were just all adidas.
Rock Chalk!
The past is littered with great talents brought along too fast.
Embiid is just another one.
If you get injured playing D1, it only figures when you play with mature players you will be hamburger. You were right not to play any more last year, but you were a fool to opt for the L. Your broken foot is god's way of saying you're not ready, dummy.
He is probably already a footnote.
Pitiful advice to go pro. He should sue the dolt that gave it to him.
Thanks for the assist and I envy you putting it more lucidly than me! Rock Chalk!
Nobody would want Brady. He could actually guard, shoot 40% from trey, protect and feed the post. Haven't you heard? The current rage is high ceilings with low foundations that turn it over, don't dish, shoot < 38% (33-35% is preferred) and disappear intermittently while waiting to develop later!
Yeeeee hawwwww!
KULA, baby, we gotta get ewe a whole team full uh low foundations, so we can lose 11 games, see one or two high touch high scoring low assist performances, and get bounced early, too!!!!!!
Yeeee hawwwww!
When lousy, fail the eye test Brady started wet behind the ears his first season after a shirt we got to the sweet 16 with non OAD stiffs like Cole and Sherronatron! They too suffered from useless high foundations and playing all out!
Next.
Where does it say active pros and former pros can play? I don't see that at all.
The key to the team should be the large number of current roster players with a few years together, plus TADs Oubre and Alexander, plus the rim protector Self will sign, plus what OAD/TADs adidas stacks him with. The ringers will be 1 or 2 top transfers that will be eligible for Korea, but not the regular season.
USA leadership in the university games clearly can't figure out how to get gold.
Opponents are lesser athletic pro teams long on skills that don't play pro ball. Kind of like old USA semi pro teams--together for years, only playing international rules.
So they give constraints--<25, not pros, current or former players--and ask USA coaches for ideas.
Cal must have said my Nike OAD incomings plus Nike TADs could play AAU style that early but not much else.
Nix.
Self pitches an idea and wins.
But what was it and how could it differ from Cal?
adidas not Nike.
Tharpe and his Selfie not part of mix.
Self's INCOMINGS this season have agreed unconditionally to be TADS and will participate.
Jam Tray, Hunter, and Lucas with 2-3 years together will form the paint with Cliff.
Self is signing a major big that will TAD.
Mason, Connor, Greene will all have 2 years together and have the range to shoot the longer trey.
His guys will be an experienced defense by then and you can't beat neo-semi-pro teams in international ball without D.
The red shirt season turned Tyler into a ringer!!!!!!
No-stick offense with masked hi-Lo just beat Lebron. We're running that. It was my idea. Ask Bufford. It will beat neo-semi-pro teams.
TRANSFERS can play without sitting. Self said he would be signing 2 that would knock their support socks off.
My team will be experienced and more athletic than the neo-semi-pro teams.
The above is the dream.
The DMZ nightmare is that Mason, CF and Greene can't shoot 40% from trey and Oubre, or Alexander aren't ready for prime time by next summer.
So coach'em up, Bill!
Wouldn't it be interesting if Popa consulted his brain trust of LB, Self, etc., and listened to Self about beating the Heat by keeping the ball from sticking?
What if Self, the old pick and roller and man of many sets and actions and 1000 page play books, when he isn't limited to freshman, shared his no-stick secret with Popa and said, "Popa, listen, after you get them playing no-stick, here is a wrinkle I am going to add next season. It'll work. MASK THE DOUBLE POSTS."
It all sounds so Self: mask and don't let it stick.
So should the Bucks have leaked that Embiid would rather play in Miami than Cleveland and that Riley and Lebron have made clear they want Joel on the Heat NOW!!!!
All fiction. No malice. 😀
I wrote a hilariously funny bit about Charlie Weiss, but then I decided it was wrong to kick a Jayhawk, when he was down.
ESPN: Cyclones hit with 2nd DWI arrest in 2 months
JSN: ISU names the basketball floor: Fred Hoiberg Traffic Court.
ESPN: Spartans add high-scoring transfer Forbes
JSN: Bryn and Eron form Ratso's backcourt in waiting.
ESPN: O'Bannon trial: Pay talk dominates
JSN: Players making money off the college game would be perceived like hired guns, according to Neil Pilson who makes money off the college game.
ESPN: Proposal: Pay college players off TV money
JSN: Proposal: Pay the college players out of ESPN's ad revenues.
ESPN: Mizzou guarantees Anderson $1.1M annually
JSN: Since no one wanted the job, Fizzou had to overpay?
ESPN: UK, UNC, Ohio St. in Bahamas field for Aug.
JSN: One gets a bye and just plays the casino?
(Note: All satire. No malice.)
As usual, its on the house. :-)
God, how I hope you are right.
Kellogg WAS the greatest shooter on a roll KU ever had. He could get hotter than Ben McLemore even. You are right. Thanks for the wake up call. Forgot to mention Special K. And Calvin Thompson's gun is only overlooked because he seems in recollection more steady and less red hot. On any other team than one with Kellogg, Thompson would be raved about as a long baller. Truly a shame those guys missed the trey era. It was a great, great team in the two ball era, and it would have been team of the ages in the three ball era.
Oh, jeez, I forgot thunder thighs. DV is always the guy that I forget and then feel stupid for doing so, because he was soooooooooo talented and played so well in a system and with talent that didn't fit him too well at times. But usually REHawk reminds me. Now you give me the assist. Thanks.
Unless Oubre is a 40% trifectate out of the blocks, the best thing that could happen to Oubre is for Greene to start and play 20 mpg and for Oubre to backup and play 20 mpg backup his first season, then carry the team on his back his second season, as appears set to happen with Selden. Frankly, Selden would have been better off had the same situation been possible for him last season. Playing injured really prevented him from developing his game at all last season. It just taught him how to play without a wheel, which is not the same thing as becoming a proficient dribbler, or proficient defender and shooter. This starting as a freshman without a full D1 tool kit is cruel and actually retards skill development, even though it gets them used to D1 speeds. An apprenticeship season lets them do both: get used to D1 speeds and violence, and lets them develop their skills.
Without a 40% trey, Oubre will find himself in exactly the same position Wiggins was in, only probably with a bit less athleticism. He can either get a bunch of 3 point plays off drives on nights when he is given 15-20 FGAs, or mostly disappear, when he has to play within the scheme. Wiggins was a tremendous player and talent, but UNLESS he was GIVEN the 15-20 FGAs defenders just sagged, guarded his strong hand, denied him strong side, made clear to him that they were going to threaten his health for the draft at the rim, and dared him to shoot treys. It wasn't fair to Wiggins to expect him to carry the team when he couldn't even dribble with one of his hands and had a suspect trey. Wiggins frankly made the best of it, despite his tendency to softness. But it wasn't fair to Wiggins, whether or not his advisors wanted it that way, or Self did. He just flat was not up to the challenge of dominating within the scheme of play, especially once Embiid was gone, and if you recall, that was actually a decently talented array of players he had around him even after Embiid went out. He did his best a couple of games at doing all the scoring and could do it, but as he did, he could not make the rest of the teammates one teeny bit better with dishes and they just stood around. The same, only worse, will occur with Oubre, if Self were to put the team on is back first thing.
Fortunately, the horse with the saddle pad (and sores) this year is going to be second year, leaned up, hard bodied, experienced, and hopefully hop-restored Wayne Selden.--NOT Oubre!
Lucky us.
And lucky Oubre! No doubt he is going to be a fine player, maybe a great one, but everyone benefits by an apprenticeship, even the great ones. Persons often forget that MJ got to start out being a third option behind Worthy and Perkins. And Danny Manning got to learn the ropes his first season on that awesome team of senior sharp shooters.
Really, regardless of what BS these OADs are being fed about money, and I am always on the side of making money when it is there to be made, at least half of them really can't play the game as freshman. When you are a super freak at your position that will be a super freak in the L, too, then, fine, jump for the bones. This is why I can see Embiid going even though his game isn't anywhere near ready. He is a super freak physically who they will work to develop. But if you're a guy like Selby, or Oubre, or Wiggins, with big holes in your game, and when you get to the L you are going to be an entirely fungible commodity unless your game has no holes, and you can gun the trey enough to create space against men in no boys allowed, then a seasoning year, followed by a Top three scoring option year ought to be the new normal.
Alas, KU good varies from year to year, and he almost certainly WOULD have been KU GOOD-enough to start 1 or 2 seasons at KU the way things broke.
Regardless, he got some good times at OSU.
OH........MY.......GAWD!!!!!!!!!
How could I have left Hinrich off????????
Question: DID KIRK HAVE THE HIGHEST SINGLE SEASON 3PT % KU HISTORY?
If not Kirk, then who was it?
What should be the criterion for minimum number of attempts?
Now you've really got me amped! Selden on the bounce. Greene and Selden talking toughness! Jam Tray putting the strawberry slam on Cole!!!!! Mason making Js!!!!! Players calling last year's team soft!
REAL SELF BALL AGAIN!!!!!
Now I have reason to live another year!!!!
YEEEEEEE HAAAAAWWWWWW!!!!!!!
When creative minds start expressing ambiguities, it is usually because their inquiries into the essences of their fields is taking them near the ambiguity that lies at the center of most human inquiry. Quantum theory ultimately took Erwin Schrodinger and other mathematicians and physicists to the knowledge reality itself is a variety of probability functions that actually exist based on how we interact with them. The cat really is both alive and dead. The locality assumption does not hold in all realms. And before that light was discovered to be both waves and particles. Bart Kosko showed A and Not A could exist simultaneously. There really are a billion or more exoplanets like earth in the Milky Way. Simultaneity of opposites happens. We cannot tell if this is because of how our minds work, or because the world works this way, or both, but we know it to be true because measurement with high confidence verifies the initial thought experiments and calculations.
Self is just facing up to logical implications of the simultaneity of guard play in the structure and dynamics of the game that he, as a young man early accepted intuitively, then fled from to eliminate the contradiction, and has now re-embraced the ambiguity, with the profound humility that comes of admitting the deep contradictions of life, because the measurable contradictions would not go away.
We are talking here about Schroedinger's Guards. In one circumstance they are point guards, while in another lead guards. And what determines it is not us but them. But the real unsettling truth is they are both simultaneously.
Chamberlain. The greatest of anything is by definition irresistible.
Jo Jo White--He stripped surgically and with cat like quickness to go along with being able to do anything superbly that any coach ever asked him to do. KU's greatest guard until Chalmers. Most charismatic basketball player I ever saw. The quickest hands in the history of the game.
Manning. The man who put KU on his back and put it back on the map. He oozed greatness as a player and never stopped oozing it despite the injuries later. The authentic strong, silent type in an age of girlie men and sensitives.
Rush. One of two men that put KU back among the champions and the only KU player I ever saw that could lock down 1, 2, 3, and 4 positions.
Chalmers. The other one. Plus, any player that wants to fight Self in a huddle during a game, but resists, has the right stuff.
Pierce. Greatest Jayhawk not to win a ring. Stunning NBA career. Had Roy just shut up and played through him there would be another banner hanging.
TRob. A heart and a motor and an upper body bigger than any Jayahwk in the history of the game. The king of the forearm smash and the author of the Sistine Dunk!
Marcus Morris. The guy who could do it all AND stay loyal to his Philly Steak roots.
Ben McLemore. Because he shot the ball from three the way god always meant someone to.
RussRob. Because he transformed himself, transmogrified more accurately, from a high school scorer into the greatest all around defensive guard I ever saw, and because he is who I really want to be the coach of KU some day.
Tyshawn Taylor. Because he was lightening on wood and I love speed.
@ralster THXs
You know, i thought about including the '12 trio of TT, EJ and Travis, because if they had all been healthy for most of the season they would have more than qualified. But my recollection was that EJ had knee problems the second half of the season, and Trav was in boot much of the season, so they really didn't get to do what they were capable of doing. I think we probably agree that if EJ and Trav had been healthy, we would in all probability be talking about Self's second ring team. They almost came back and beat UK with two of three perimeter players playing crippled and little depth anywhere. A healthy EJ with his pop and a healthy Travis with his trey gun clicking, plus all that experience and maturity, plus a 4 that pulled in rebounds like a black hole sucks in matter, and stretched defenses, too, plus a 7 foot rim protector that left AD 1-10 equaled second ring.
P.S.: Something folks forget about Trav is that when he was healthy his senior season he shot >40% from trey. I will always believe that had he not played on a bum wheel that finally put him in a boot his junior season, Trav would have drained at or near 40% for that '12 team. Same for EJ. He made a lot of big treys late in the season, despite the bad wheel. But if he had been healthy his gun from trey, combined with Trav at 40% from trey, would easily have overcome Tyshawn's late season trey slump. It was a great team inspite of everything. But the fact was, if it had stayed healthy it would have been a team for the ages. Despite my recognition of the greatness of the '08 team, the '12 team is my favorite of all of Self's teams, and perhaps my favorite KU team of all time, even though they came up a game shy. I have a hunch that Self, though he lives in what happened, not what could have been, harbors a deep, deep, deep respect and love for that '12 team.
Hope you are right. I know Alexander dunked endlessly on his highlight reel against high schoolers. But dunking on D1 guys big enough to hurt you (and willing to) is another deal. Remember how (was it Texas?) Embiid got flipped and thrown on his back after he started going over everyone? If Alexander had some tough hombres on his team that would retaliate for when he is ripped by some long and strongs, then Alexander might be able to be Dr. Dunk, but one of the things people are not mentioning about this year's team--I don't see many guys of the kind willing to get in opponents' faces. Alexander might be the only one. Maybe Oubre? Oh, well, Jam Tray seems pretty tough. But who else? Haven't heard about Mickelsons ferocity.
ESPN: McCants standing firm on 'truth' about UNC
JSN: UNC coup continues?--first the foundation President, now Roy--someone must really want to take down Dean's fiefdom at long last.
ESPN: Pearl, Auburn land Niagara transfer Mason
JSN: But will Pearl allow Mason to pack heat on joy rides for old time's sake?
ESPN: Ibaka's brother to play for Oklahoma State
JSN: OSU sucking so bad they are signing brothers.
ESPN: Economist: Coaches reap benefits
JSN: And the night is dark.
ESPN: Georgetown-Cuse rivalry to resume in 2015
JSN: Two coaches that deserve to play each other.
ESPN: Both UConn hoops teams visit White House
JSN: Be nice. He can have you assassinated.
ESPN: NCAA reaches $20M settlement in EA case
JSN: If they'll pay this, think how much they must really be making off this sort of thing.
ESPN: Sources: Cavs offered Calipari nearly $80M
JSN: If Cal will turn down nearly $80M, think how much he must really being netting down at Lexington.
ESPN: WVU's Huggins has hip replacement surgery
JSN: Hey, basketball god, isn't Huggs playing in a league from another time zone enough penance for turning the game into thug ball?
ESPN: Irish's Connaughton to play another season
JSN: Confession is good for the soul but delays big bones.
ESPN: Transfer Harris to join Spartans, 'genuine' Izzo
JSN: Eron goes from Huggo Muggo to Ratso Izzo
ESPN: Roy Williams: In 'disbelief' about McCants
JSN: Uh-oh, "disbelief" sounds like one of those things attorneys tell you to say.
ESPN: UK inks Calipari to 7-year, $52.5M contract
JSN: Why did Cal turn down nearly $27.5M to stay in Lexington? Doesn't he know the salmon are biting on Lake Erie?
ESPN: Goodman: Billy Donovan best at NBA prep
JSN: Hell, yes! Billy got Noah and Horford to wait to turn pro; that was the best NBA Prep they could have gotten.
(Note: All satire. No malice.)
Classic take. PHOF!
In terms of disappointing losses?
I really am not annoyed, or disappointed by the early outs by mid majors, because I assume Self is gambling on sending them out flat for those and he is going to lose some of those gambles.
The losses that really disappointed me were:
to VCU, because that team had a clear path to the ring at that point, because of upsets in other regions;
to Michigan, because that team had a clear path to a ring.
Disappointment to me is failure to seize opportunity. Those were the two best ring opportunities KU has blown under Self. They hurt. They will always hurt.
And disappoint.
First, I'm really happy to have a player with the size, strength and motor that Alexander appears to have.
But I haven't seen anything but his highlight feed, which doesn't show much back to basket game, or much challenged shooting from 15-22 feet.
Having a drop step is great for a big man, but to keep defenders from simply standing in front of the drop step one has to have a turn around J, or a jump hook that is money. And to really get any room to work, Cliff has to be able to shoot it from 15-20 feet, so he can lane drive a la Marcus Morris, TRob, etc. Traylor was beginning to show signs of being able to lane drive and even make a 15 footer late last season. He didn't look smooth yet, but he was doing it. For Cliff to beat out Jam Tray, for minutes at the 4 with Ellis, then Cliff has got to have a back to the basket move that complements his drop step, AND he's got to be able to pop from 15 and lane drive; that's a tall order even for a guy as talented and driven as he seems to be. Since he is not likely to be able to master all those moves during his first season, it maybe that we will see more of Cliff at the 5, when opposing center height permits, where he can just concentrate on rebounding, guarding, lobs and stick backs.
One thing I REALLY like about Alexander is he has a short neck and long arms, and so he should play a bit taller than 6-8, which would be perfect for his stints at the 5 complementing Ellis and, occasionally Greene at the 4.
A lot of how much Alexander plays depends on how much improvement Traylor, Lucas and Mickelson have made. I have a hunch Mickelson is going to be an important player this season. But I have a hunch Alexander is going to be an important player this season, because a chairman of the boards is always someone Self can find minutes for.
I always remember Reed distilling what a perimeter guy had to do to play in the rotation: guard, protect, feed the post, hit the open trey.
What distinguished the '08 triumvirate of RR, Chalmers, and Sherron was that they could do all the basic requirements for perimeter rotation minutes, PLUS they could all put it on the deck and go to iron. Thus, when Self needed a lot of attack from the perimeter to foul up teams, He could come with RR, Chalmers and Sherron, and all hell broke loose. And, while Brandon was not strong on the drive with his left hand, he could on occasion slash with his right by over powering his opponent with his strength and then go suborbital at the iron. Those were four full time threats in addition to being sound perimeter players in all of the basic requirements. KU has never had four perimeter players since that were both sound in the basics AND full time deck threats. My hunch is that what Self was trying to say in his Eisenhower-ese about his happiness with signing Devonte and Svee is that Self, at least, believes adding Devonte and Svee to Selden, Mason, Frankamp, and Greene, ought to yield by late in the season at least 4 players sound in the basics and able to put it on the deck, and that that is Wild Bill's idea of threat nirvana on the perimeter.
I can't say I am very confident that it will, but a board rat loses most of the time betting against Self's expectations.
And if one just considers the variety in perimeter players Self has it is pretty clear that, if he coaches them up, and gets them at least sound in the basic requirements by, say, January, there is almost no perimeter matchup that KU will come up against that Self will not have several ways to try to exploit a weakness.
"But... where does the leadership come from?"
Good question. Answer this coming season: Selden.
Wayne better get a good saddle pad. The team is going to be on his back from the first tip off. I don't foresee as much scoring coming out of the paint, as in past years, unless: a) Perry has learned to muscle against the long and strongs; and b) unless Alexander has more back to the basket game than his highlight videos suggest. Maybe Micklelson, or Traylor, or Lucas will surprise us though. But I really think this coming year's paint points are going to have to come off Wisconsin style drive-and-dishes and stick backs, rather than an inside out game, where our bigs can score back to basket. This scoring weakness in the paint won't show up till we play some good non conference teams with blue meanies inside. Hope I'm wrong, but as I believe you have pointed out on occasion we've got the scoring in the Ellis chassis and the motors and explosiveness in the Traylor/Alexander chassises, but what we need is the scoring, explosiveness and motor in the same chassis.
"I doubt that AWIII would have become a faster ball handler. Self wants a guard that resembles Bill Self at OSU."
Hadn't thought of it quite this way, but now that you write it your explanation seems to make the most sense of any I have read about the AWIII's departure.
"especially considering the NBA has a shorter possession clock, and now the NCAA is talking about experimenting with shortening it. Self wants to be ready."
Bingo!
"I want Wayne (Selden) to be able to play point guard; I want Frank (Mason); I want Conner (Frankamp); I want Devonté; I want Svee (Mykhailiuk) when he gets here. I want all these guys to be able to bring it so we are playing a bunch of combo guards that can all play point as opposed to just playing a point guard. Up ’til the last five to seven minutes (when you need what he called a ‘closer’) I hope we have three point guards out there at once or at least the appearance of three.”--BILL
TRANSLATION:
Wayne is going to be the point guard no matter where he happens to be and no matter who brings the ball up the floor every time, or not.
Wayne is going to be the closer, when ever KU is behind, and whoever can protect and shoot FTs best is going to close when KU is ahead.(Recall Tyrel and Brady were sometimes called on to close games because they could protect and make FTs.)
Bill is praying GRAHAM can play some point, when Wayne is resting on or off the floor, because there will be match ups that call for more height than 5-9 Mason and 5-11 Conner (non KU inches).
Everyone else is going to take turns dribbling up court, penetrating and taking 3s, whenever Wayne néeds on-court rest.
Those that hope for Oubre and Alexander to start and lead the team as freshmen the way Wiggins and Embiid did should be chastened by Bill's early comments. Each will likely be committee members at their positions, perhaps not starters, and likely TADs. Self says Oubre and Alexander have to acquire "footwork"; this is how he talks, when both guys are going to have to acquire new basic skills on both ends to guard and score against D1 players. Oubre must lack a credible trey to make his prowess on the drive feasible to exploit. Alexander must not have credible back to basket offense to free him up to dunk. Self said neither guy knows how to play "the way we play."
Inference: among other things, Bill watched Bo and Wisconsin and said that's what I want outside!!!! Three drivers that also "make" the trey. And with my athletic horses inside we can do it better if...
I can just find a second rim protector to committee with Mickelson, who must be a wee bit foul prone. Hence, the search to replace Turner's rejection probably goes on in war torn Central Asia and increasingly edgy Eastern Europe. Will Bob Hill, or some other pair of KU sympathetic eyes be able to interest a rim protector into getting out of harm's way the way Svee did? If so, buy Final Four ticks. If not, hope Lucas has worked on his timing and ups.
Bill Walton said in a review of a book titled "Maravich" that Dale Brown went back and charted Pete's shots for three seasons at LSU and found that Pete averaged MAKING 13.5 three point distance shots per game for three seasons. The guy could do it all. I just regret he didn't get to play for Wooden and win three rings. Wooden said at a clinic I attended that Pete could have been a very, very, very GREAT team player had he been asked to be. Wooden said Pete was one of the guys he most wanted to coach that he did not get to. Pete was one of the great athletic freaks of the game. I was so lucky to grow up in a time to watch both Pete and Earl The Pearl. Both guys could do things that have to be seen to be understood. Words cannot express it.
It seems to mean that Bill Self is frustrated at not being able to sign top point guards.
Once he signs a top point guard, he will want to play a point guard instead of three lead guards.
:-)
Only two KU players ever disappointed me: Xavier Henry and Andrew Wiggins.
Every other KU player that seemed disappointing always turned out to have valid reasons for under-performing. Usually it was health related.
But I was never able to find a valid reason that explained the way X and Wigs appeared to pull their punches for extended stretches of each of their seasons at KU.
But to put my disappointment with these two players in proper perspective, even appearing to pull their punches these players played very well statistically and appeared loyal to their teammates and represented KU well.
So: my disappointment is minor.
But it is there and it tastes bad.
It tastes bad, because of what it may imply about where the game may be headed.
There has to be some more players that want to bail out of Ukraine and the Baltic States, while Russia and USA are flexing their nuclear dinguses.
But if he doesn't get to the Final Four pretty quick he will be.
No. Not over this.
Self said SELBY was an NBA-type player, so not sure how much to read into him saying Greene is one.
We enter many seasons fearing our returning big men won't be good enough, but most seasons one makes a big improvement and 3-4 form a solid rotation. Mickelson is apt to be very solid at 5 and Lucas appears ready to become a credible 15-20 mpg back up.
Self has often gone small, when long can't guard short situationally, but...
Going short as a season long Tao would probably require actual 38-40% trifectates at 1-3 plus one at either 4 or 5, as per Fizzou and Wisconsin. Presently, the team's only proven 40% trey gun is The Designer.
Next, Perry, at a true 6-7 and Traylor at a true 6-6 actually are going small at the 4, so if Greene has bulked up there is no reason he couldn't play 4, but...
Greene will probably be needed to back up Oubre 20 mpg to get a trey gun in half the time at the 3.
Finally, I expect Selden to improve his dribbling and become effectively a wing PG to conserve his energy for dominating games on offense. It is also a good backup role for Svi. This will let Self get by with most anyone at point, where Svi will also play some. Over the season I would expect the team to gravitate toward a lot of Selden and Svi, especially vs. UK. 😃 Over time the third guard will be which ever one protects and trifectates best.
As you wish.
Happily, it really is this simple.
If you think it through, I think you will see it, too.
First, I apologize if I mislead you into thinking Mario should play hard ball with Riles. Only amateurs and hacks play hardball in bargaining; that was not at all what I was suggesting Mario do.
Professionals understand bargaining is just an iterative process of clarifying the overlap of perceived net benefit in doing what they both want to do in the first place.
People watch too many movies about bargaining.
Really, the other players perhaps available around the league only come into Riley's thinking, if he were dissatisfied with Chalmers and actually wanted to make a change. But there is no evidence of that. Norris Cole eating into Chalmer's minutes doesn't mean much either. Chalmer's brings W's by making things work in the clutch. Frankly, Norris Cole could take all but five of Chalmer's minutes and not adversely impact Chalmer's critical contribution to the Heat.
Chalmers is the guy you want in at the end to win.
Riley is about winning. He wants to be considered in the ranks of Auerbach and jackson and he can't be unless he wins some more rings. He's an old pro at this stuff. He knows he can't win rings without a guy like Chalmers. He looks around the league at all the names you mentioned and all Riles sees is a bunch of talents at point guard. He sees a bunch of Norris Coles at point guard. But he already has a Norris Cole. He doesn't need another Norris Cole. He has that base covered. What he needs is the scarcest raw material in basketball. The money player at crunch time that can make the team win on both ends of the floor. All the names you mentioned are just talent. They are guys you replace Norris Coles with, not Mario Chalmers. A professional bargainer understands that distinction instantly.
If Riley were dissatisfied with Chalmers, and wanting other players, then he would either not be bargaining at all with Chalmers, or he would be telling Chalmers with his first offer that his role on the Heat was to be sharply curtailed and his salary with it. And if Riley were to make that kind of overture, then Chalmers would certainly not waste time bargaining with Riley. He would be focused entirely on moving on for more opportunity and money elsewhere.
I'm not meaning to be obstinate here with you. I'm just trying to get you to think like professional bargainers think.
Really, they know exactly what they want and they don't waste time thinking about all the players around the league. They just focus on the guy they have and find out if there is another guy available and better at what their guy does. If they like the other guy better then they go try an get him. They don't waste time bargaining with a lesser.
What most amateurs don't grasp in these situations is that bargaining ONLY takes place, when both sides WANT to stay married. Chalmers and Riley both probably know they want to stay married. It would be dumb for them not to, unless there is something else afoot.
But in bargaining, the side writing the checks had to have it proven to them that there really is more money to be had by Chalmers elsewhere. What you apparently naively call hard ball is just sound bargaining. Chalmers has to prove to the man with the check book what his money value is on the open market. And while proving it, Rile's duty to his organization is to cover his bases in case Chalmers finds so much money he can't fit under the salary cap.
Both sides know there is probably no one out on the open market that can do a better job of giving Riles and his team what Chalmers gives them. And if there were, Riles would make good and damn sure he got him, not Chalmers, if the guy were available.
Its really not complicated at all. What needs to be done is clear to the good minds. How to actually execute it may require a lot of lawyers and accountants, but that's after the fact.
Always remember, the object of the game is to win. You win with necessary pieces assembled properly.
You always look for the best piece. But if you've already got the best piece, you don't go looking for another. You just go through the bargaining process. None of these other guys you mention have produced rings for Riley. Probably none of these other guys have produced rings for the teams they are on. None of these other guys have come in and gotten it done in the clutch for rings. They are just a bunch of Norris Coles. Riles might want to swap one of them for Norris Coles, but not for Mario Chalmers.
Remember, Riles has played on ring teams. He has coached ring teams. And he has presided over ring teams. He knows the difference between talent and winners.
The only reason it would not be as simple as I describe would be if if Chalmers were to have lost some of his pop, or were to have an injury. Riles has antennae for that sort of thing. All guys that have been around the game as long as Riles has have the same antennae, too. Riles knows that Chalmers is always limited in the talent department. He knows Chalmers always has to play at the edge of his envelope to do what he does in the NBA. If Riles senses that the wear and tear is eating into Mario's ability to be money at crunch times, then Mario is already demoted to an old pro that knows how to win and is just supposed to help the youngin's learn the magic. Winners like to keep winners around in all kinds of ancillary positions. Only amateurs mistake a talent as being the same as a winner.
In the NBA, or at the top of any organizational activity, the team that wins is the team with the most winners. Winners have talent. But only a few talents are winners.
Now, I admit I haven't followed Mario closely enough to know if he were losing his pop, but I would guess its a significant possibility. He played for KU back when Self was still coaching basketball at the edge of the envelope. Three years playing at KU was probably like six years at a lot of other schools. So: Chalmers had some miles on him when he got to the L. Then add in that Chalmers is most definitely undersized and of only average physical ability among players in the L and you know that Chalmers has had to use every ounce of pop in those ligaments and tendons and muscles to stay on the floor every game he has played. Finally, add in that Riles has a history of burning up talent making it play the hard way, the manly man way, and you can figure that even though Mario has only played 5-6 seasons in the L, its like he has played 8-9 on other teams. He most definitely could be verging on permanently lost pop. And Riles won't hesitate to replace him if his pop has fallen off.
But if Mario has not lost his edge, then, oh, my yes, it really is this simple.
Amateurs trying to understand bargaining among professionals just need to keep in mind what the Chicago Bulls were willing to put up with from Dennis Rodman, because their management and Phil Jackson understood that he gave the team exactly what it needed to go with its stars. Rodman was to rebounding and defense at crunch time, what Chalmers is to clutch shooting and disruption defense at crunch time. Remember Rodman was waaaaaaay past his prime, when he played for the Bulls. There were probably 30 players around the league the Bulls could have picked up that had more "talent" than Rodman. But the Bulls didn't need talent. They needed a guy that could produce at crunch time--a guy with the epic mental toughness to win championships.
Naive amateurs were forever bad mouthing Rodman. He couldn't shoot FTs. He couldn't shoot. He wasn't tall enough. He was crazy. He was making a mockery of the game. They were basketball naives. Rodman was exactly what the Bulls needed at that position with that bunch of talent. Phil Jackson understood only fools gave away what was needed to get more talent, or to get a more respectable citizen. Rodman probably WAS crazy part of the time. But he could get it done, when it needed to get done like nobody else around the league.
Stay focused on Rodman one minute more. Why was he so crucial to that team? Lots of guys can go out and get a bunch of reebs. Lots of guys can guard their position. Some of them are even tough. Phil Jackson understood exactly why Rodman was essential. It was that he could do all those things, but one thing more. The only way to keep Jordan's ego from overwhelming every other player on the team was to have a guy like Rodman that could and would spit in Jordan's eye. Rodman would look Jordan in the eye and say, "You don't mean shizz to me, MJ, I already got rings before I ever saw your high priced, bony ass! You NEED ME. I don't need you." In short, Rodman could keep Jordan from completely devouring that team and Rodman could become the lightening rod that discharged the constantly building electrical charge between Jordan and Pippen. If Rodman hadn't been there, Jordan would have utterly crushed Pippen's ego. He almost did anyway, but Rodman was the guy strong enough to take their combined wrath and scorn, because, truth be told, neither of them could really stand taking it for the team.
My point here is this: its obvious what Chalmer's brings at crunch time. But it is not so obvious to people that don't understand team psychodynamics that Chalmers provides something critical to that team of three big stars. No matter how many rings the Heat win, those three stars have to look at little Mario and know:
a) they didn't win them till he got there;
b) he's got as many rings as they do; and
c) he's got one they'll never have--the NCAA ring.
Until you've been around really competitive persons, you just can't appreciate how that NCAA ring sticks in Lebron's craw. Little Mario walking around the practice floor, the locker room, the airplane, the hotel pool, etc. with the swagger he has is worth sooooooooooo much to that team over the course of a loooooooooong season.
There is no one else anywhere on planet earth can fill that exact role for the Heat. Riles knows it. Spoelstra knows it. Mario knows it. Mario's agent knows it. Lebron knows it. The other two stars know it.
But all good things come to an end and it could be that Mario's pop has lessened and so the end is here.
I hope not.
The Heat are quite a show with Mario.