🏀 KuBuckets Archive

No, KU is just having an off game.

Self is trying to get his alma mater in the dance?

North Carolina Tar&Nicotineheels

vs.

the Doris Duke U'rollems

I don't care about total point comparisons of Easygate State and Cancer U.

I am afraid the script, er, game plan today was to get this sort of game out of our systems and behind us.

By this I mean we may not come back.

I wonder if Self is sick of all the corruption in college basketball and just decided to bust the spread intentionally?

Just kidding.

KU is playing a little defense. Self can't help himself.

I don't think KU could EVER beat OSU anywhere, anytime.

:upside_down:

Mike Boynton has just improved this much.

He is too good for Self.

OSU's players are too good for KU.

Its hopeless.

On any given Saturday...

Does this mean OSU is coming together for a Cinderella run in March?

Oh, now I get it.

Mike Boynton is a Brad Underwood protege.

Brad played for Okie Baller Jack Hartman at KSU.

Brad and Frank Martin hooked up and assisted Bob Huggins at KSU.

Brad then assisted Frank at KSU, when Huggie moved to WVU.

Mike, a Brooklynite, kicked around in the Carolinas in lesser programs.

Brad followed Frank to South Carolina Gamecocks.

Frank and Brad picked up Mike to recruit the Carolinas.

Then Brad took the Steve F. Austin head job and Mike followed him.

Mike replaced Brad as HC at Steve Austin, when Brad went to OSU.

Mike replaced Brad at OSU, when Brad went to Illinois.

This is about professional curtesy and helping a new young coach not get eaten alive.

Or does OSU just present really tough match ups this season?

Or do folks still believe Self tightens up in Stillwater?

Or does Eddie come up with the game plan for OSU when they play KU?

I get it.

Bill is trying to get nominated to the Oklahoma State BHOF and get Tyler a head job at OSU sometime in the future.

If Doke can't guard Dedric, then we've got a keeper.

JayHawkFanToo said:

@jaybate-1-0 rule #1 of posting...if you can't dazzle then with brilliance, baffle them with the bull...and a few buffer posts, whatever that is.

@jaybate-1-0 Rule #2 of posting...if you are called on your nonsense, go back to rule #1... getting personal this time around.

So predictable, never changes and likely never will.

The funny parts is that if he knew for a fact what he posted was true, he would not need to do any leg work for any one, as he calls it, he would just post the information. Hogwash is hogwash...even if it is 2,000 word post.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts.

$$$$$

Boo, I really like that splatter job!

Stumpty Dumpty

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P.P.S.: Oh and I really like all this splatter you two left on my alias! Nice job!

Until the age of digital hyper reality, where anything digital can be faked without leaving tracks, and this weird vying for a new level of oligarchic global power apparently involves trying to frame Trump for collusion with Putin, and grabs for control of USA states, I would have been pretty down on Stumpy. But now my belief in innocent until proven guilty is hugely reinforced!

Stumpy is at a school crucial to controlling a defense heavy state in a geo strategic position necessary to shut off illegal imigration and narcotics that also just happens to have with a powerful US Senator hostile to Trump nearing the end of his career. Power grabs are probable in Arizona. In power grabs, patsies often get caught up and sacrificed. Look what is going on in Michigan and MSU. All fall down.

UA and Tucson are the only potentially viable footholds in Arizona for Hilary/DNC/NeoCon/Neolib/Crown of GB to make a play for even a share of control in Arizona. They desperately need an new anti Trumper Senator to stonewall the wall in that State.

There is a slim chance Stumpy got caught in the crossfire, same as Self, or lots of other coaches and officials in key states could get caught up in the brass knuckles power plays.

This is some of the most brutal hard ball I have seen in my lifetime, so it’s getting harder and harder to rule daring enterprises out EVER.

Either way, it will all probably come out in the wash eventually.

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P.S. : Just between you and moi, I’m really very easy to get along with. A push over, really. Have a great day!

@mayjay
We are both hopeless optimists.

But you confuse petulance with tolerance and playfulness.

jaybate 1.0 said:

Kcmatt7 said:

@BShark You have to remember, JB assumes any player that wears a shooters sleeve has an arm injury :joy:

And apparently a bloody/broken nose is the same thing as a broken foot lol.

And I’m usually RIGHT!

😂

No it’s more like playing operable!
😂

Hey, you guys are pretty ticked I called this title before you!😂

Kcmatt7 said:

@BShark You have to remember, JB assumes any player that wears a shooters sleeve has an arm injury :joy:

And apparently a bloody/broken nose is the same thing as a broken foot lol.

And I’m usually RIGHT!

😂

mayjay said:

@jaybate-1.0 And your approach could be called painting, not sharing. When someone asks for more information, sometimes they just are interested in where you saw something. If they suggest they disagree or disbelieve, and ask for where you saw something, they are asking for elaboration. Sometimes they are asking simply because it differs from what they thought before, but asking indicates an open mind.

You post the lengthiest discourses that supposedly invite discussion, but you flip off JHF2 all the time, and me half the time, and some others occasionally. But I think you don't realize that many people might have similar thoughts or questions to the ones we raise.

Now tell me what is wrong. Why do you worry about my post length? Why do you read my “painting? “ If you don’t like my posts and responses, if the painting and length seem weird to you why do you read and respond? Does what you are doing seem odd on your part? Why do you read long paintings, if you don’t like the experience? Why do you respond as you do? What makes an alias read what they think is weird? Why don’t you give yourself some limits? I give myself some. I don’t read every post. I often skip long posts, or even short posts.

Why aren’t you being kinder to yourself?

Focus on controlling what you read rather than on trying to control what I write. Isn’t that the healthy, happy way?

What would you think if I started saying you were weird for writing short, non-paintings?

No one is paying you to read my long paintings, right?

Be kind to yourself.

Just say no to my posts.

They are intended only for enjoyment.

They are not meant for everyone.

They are playful and often silly.

Do you really want to spend time reading and negatively judging another’s posts that you arent enjoying? It seems, sort of a waste.

Wouldn’t you really rather have fun reading short, non-paintings of others?

Be good to yourself.

Have fun. You know my icon now. It’s easy to avoid.

But I’m ok, whatever you decide.

Rock Chalk!

BShark said:

@jaybate-1.0 Recently in a discussion with me you claimed TTU was faking injuries when it was all documented and one of the players had a broken foot. Then later you said KU players play through those injuries, but I can scarcely recall the last time a KU player played with a broken bone. So forgive me if I am a little weary at this point.

Whoa! Don’t be silly. I speculated Tech might be. You never provided convincing evidence they weren’t. So you’re POV is no stronger than mine. And the real point was whether they were making a best effort to win games, or resting for the conference tourney. I’m probably MORE weary with you at this point than you with me. Cole Alrdrich wore a mask for much of a season. Reed played operable. So many guys have played with severe injuries I forget them all. Selby worn a boot on a stress fx or reaction for part of a season. Remember WITHEY’s lip? He kept playing with that! Ellis played after the nose attack on the WSU player’s elbow. Kaun played on no knees his last season. Mario from Chicago played on one leg. You apparently haven’t been paying attention to KU play-thru ball. Try more bed rest, if you’re serious about being weary.

BShark said:

jaybate 1.0 said:

BShark said:

@jaybate-1.0 Burden of proof should be on the person making the claim.

Why?

But thanks for sharing.

Why should someone be able to make an outrageous claim and the defense is simply like @mayjay said "it's common knowledge". That doesn't work. Not if you want to have a meaningful discussion. Other people shouldn't have to fact check for someone that's making a claim, especially when it's very likely hogwash.

Says you.

But I did not sign any by laws here that I have give you the evidence you ask for.

Further, you are assuming it’s outrageous, likely hogwash, and imputing its a claim with out giving me any evidence you are correct. I am not persuaded by you, but at least I am not calling it hogwash and demanding evidence. I’m fine with you opining, as I did, but dont expect me to agree or do your legwork for you. Man up and do it yourself. It’s ok with me if you don’t believe me.

There are things posted here that I dont believe and don’t respond to out of curtesy. There are other things posted here that are patently silly, or offensive, directed at me, that I respond to by not taking seriously. Other opining I learn from and have good give and take. I NEVER feel a poster, even an a-hole, owes me any evidence! I ask sometimes, but if I really want to know something I always go study for myself. IMHO, no poster here owes any other poster here a bunch of leg work.

And around the internet demanding more and more evidence appears increasingly one of the disinfo techniques of fracking discourse.

Get a grip!

Aliases don’t OWE aliases the evidence. It’s a gift if they give it, not an obligation.

.

JayHawkFanToo said:

@jaybate-1.0

I see, no answers. Nothing new there.

Sorry to let you down.

I’m hoping you will see a pattern emerging here in my resolve not to engage you seriously.

You and I don’t need each other’s approval to have fun and matriculate here.

As always, my best advice is to resist the temptation to read my posts to avoid the unfulfillment. You are supposed to come here for fun and learning. If you get neither from me, by all means stop reading my posts. The format mercifully makes it effortless to do.

Rock Chalk!

@mayjay

We really are keeping @Red.Rooster busy with these posts about what you and I find really odd!

Rock Chalk!

benshawks08 said:

@mayjay Yeah, not sure why asking for a source would be treated with hostility. I get the "another Jaybate theory" isn't particularly kind, but it's far from insulting in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing.

mayjay said:

@jaybate-1.0 Don't know anything about that. I was hoping you would treat JHF2's question seriously, like the rest of us do all our lives when someone says something startling (Huh? Where'd you hear that?), so I could do further reading. Your responses to him are really really odd.

Thanks for sharing.

I find both of your posts really odd at times, too.

But it’s okay.

BShark said:

@jaybate-1.0 Burden of proof should be on the person making the claim.

Why?

But thanks for sharing.

@mayjay

What do you think about the 1938-1940 period, specifically?

@mayjay

Ya think?

Howling!

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JayHawkFanToo said:

@jaybate-1.0

Where do you get your information that the NIT or any of the other tournaments are or were corrupt? I remember watching the NIT in the 70s when it was a prestigious event and never heard back then or since that it was corrupt or any of the other tournaments for that matter.

Do you have any factual information or is this another Jaybate theory?

@JayHawkFanToo

Why do you ask?

You recall I don’t do leg work for you, right?

And you know I try not to waste time with apparent mischaracterizations of my posts, right?

And you know I don’t even see a lot of the mischaracterizations of my posts, right?

And you remember I don’t do “theories”, and I tend to believe “conspiracy theories” are mostly memed for suckers, or the term is mostly used for smears, at least since the stuff about Intel and MSM reputedly using “conspiracy theory” for smearing came out, right? 👍

And you remember I do “hypotheses,” or just opine and speculate as a layman fan, right?

Cat got your attack graphic? 😀

Be of good cheer. De-wad your boxers. And enjoy the 14th. 👏

Next.

Jeff has paid some dues. Now he needs to catch a break, when/if the FIBEE investigations create about 30 openings at once in D1. If the FIBBEE can break the apparent petroshoeco-agency complex’s reputed talent channelling, and not replace it with an even more tightly held (i.e., the Dark Four investment managers with their untraceable PPT monies) producer oligopoly, Bosh could rise fast!

Go, Bosh, go!

😀

Bruce Weber has been jSPN's perennial runaway Interim Coach of the Year in the Big 12 since Bruce replaced Frank Martin and began driving talent away in droves from Manhattan.

There has never been a close vote for Interim COY since Bruce arrived.

But this season, jSPN stringers were deeply divided between Bruce Weber and Shaka Smart.

Those supporting Bruce for Interim COY mention all his accomplishments. He had the appearance of interim from the start. He carefully never does well enough to be thought of as a permanent hire. His helmet hair coiffeur is an icon of his interim-ness. He has proven that interim-ness can be a career. Despite recruiting as poorly as ever his team does not suck.

Those backing Shaka Smart cite his astonishing transformation of what was a near certain long term destination job into an interim position within only three mediocre seasons. Smart has use his legendary havoc system to etch a .502 overall and .420 conference record. This sort of mediocrity, of course, impressed the jSPN stringers, but what really drove him to unmistakable interim status is his squandering of footer and shot blocker extraordinaire Mohmmad Bamba, who would likely be leading other coaches to conference titles.

jSPN stringers finally gave the Interim COY award to Weber, because of his consistency in running off talent and not recruiting as players as good as he runs off.

(Note: All fiction. No malice.)

@mayjay

The NIT was reputedly formed by NY sports writers with the reputed backing of Big Apple gambling racketeers in 1938.

The NAIA small college tourney was started 1938 by James Naismith and hotel industry promoters in Boss Tom Pendergast's then machine town of Kansas City, MO.

The NCAA tourney was started in 1939 with strong advocacy from Coach Harold Olsen of Ohio State and Forest Allen of KU. Allen of KU had long been critical of east coast gambling's adverse influence on college basketball.

Which tourney do you think was the most corrupt in the early days 1938-1940: NIT, NAIA, or NCAA?

@CRH107

There is a basic, often overlooked difference between great coaches like Self, Knight, K, Cal, Roy and Dean, versus someone like John Wooden.

John Wooden is in the BHOF as a player, not just as a coach. Great players beat opponents in the moment on the floor.

None of those other great coaches were great players. None of them every really knew what it was like to play at a championship level themselves.

They had been subs on teams and some had been assistants on teams that won rings, or got close.

But there is a another layer of coaching than watching it up close. It is the level of having actually done it and knowing what it is REALLY like to do it.

John Wooden was an incomparably great athlete in his time. He had a level of intensity and competitiveness in the arena at the highest level that none of the other coaches had ever experienced first hand.

Self and the other great coaches I mentioned are some of the greatest coaches EVER. But not a single one of them has ever known what it is like to play at the highest levels a human being can play at. That is a mountain top that only Wooden among the games greatest coaches ever rose to.

Being a great player is for many a great obstacle to being a great coach. They are bored, or frustrated, by the limitations of what lesser players are capable of. Or they are lacking in some of the core skills a great head coach requires, of which there are many.

Wooden was NOT the greatest coach of all time for a very long time. For a very long time he was a stubborn sunnuvabitch determined to do it one way. That was was good enough to become a good college coach, but not a great one. Wooden did not become a great coach until he was about to lose his job in his late 40s and was finally willing to first hire, and then listen to Jerry Norman about the 2-2-1 zone press and about recruiting some players. With the 2-2-1 press, which he furiously resisted, and recruiting, which he barely engaged in even after he let Norman start recruiting, he had a couple of edges that got him the kind of players (a team of great 6-5 and under athletes that the other coaches had passed on as being too small) and the kind of strategic edge that could take him deep in the tournament and let him actually use his first hand experience of recognizing which players really had what it took, and knowing what they were capable of. He understood African Americans athletes for what they were--an untapped resource of competitive fury and in many cases great athleticism. Having been the best of the best as the Indiana Rubber Man, Wooden was not blindered about what really made great players great. It was a combination of great athleticism, worked at relentlessly, with a nuclear furnace of competitive fury within harnessed to taking the highest percentage shots off the hardest to guard 45 degree angle cuts, of doing EVERYTHING not just the UCLA way, but the way only great athletes could do them. Once he had great athletes drilled to the point of doing things in their sleep the way great athletes could do them, then it was all about identifying which could be "at your best when you need your best" and who had "competitive greatness" that could be directed to explode for 40 minutes in a game played so perfectly and with such quickness that lesser athletes and coaches could not keep up even when they knew exactly what was coming. All that Sam Gilbert's reputed recruiting cash under the table did for Wooden in the years after he had already won two, or 3 rings, was give him essentially as many such players as he wanted, and a lot of top players he could choose among to get those that were not just great talents, but winnow to those that were GREAT ATHLETES. Other coaches had had alumni hiring players the same way that Wooden reputedly (I say reputedly because Wooden was never actually penalized for ANY infraction that I have ever heard of) finally let Norman and Gilbert do for him. Most forget that coaches like Dean Smith and others had some great runs of talent, at the same time that Wooden did, but none of them really knew the 10th tenth of what great players were capable of. They could win a ring or two, when they had a super player, or two, and everything clicked, but Wooden got so he could win a ring every season with the same kind of players the other top programs were signing, increasingly with more, but for one difference. Wooden could pick the ones that were at their best when they needed their best, and that had competitive greatness coursing through their veins in every big game UCLA ever played for 10 or 11 seasons. Wooden took coaching to a whole other level by being able to pick not just the top talent, but the top talent that could rise to competitive greatness when it was needed. Wooden did not need a learning experience after awhile. Wooden already had everything hardwired at the beginning the season. Wooden coached a way to play that great players could play, if they really wanted to submit to playing at 10 tenths of their abilities, if they really wanted to tie their shoe laces the UCLA way, and live the Pyramid of Greatness, and let Wooden reset their shooting mechanics, and run the stuff exactly the way he wanted it run. Wooden said that they didn't hide what they were going to do, they just practiced till they did it so well with such great athletes that other teams could not stop them. Wooden NEVER had to rebuild a team in midseason EVER in his great run. He looked at his material before the season started and schemed it just right the first time. Wooden was an architect. He had blue prints for each season. He coached many different schemes. Every year it was the same out come. The players were fitted to the scheme from day 1 and they fitted it perfectly, or he got rid of them and had someone else that would fit, if necessary.

Self by comparison is a sculptor, like Henry Moore, or Michelangelo. He sees something possible in the stone and he begins chipping away at it to reveal what may turn out to be. It is not all written with Self from Day 1. Self has a strong vision of something being possible in this gob of material he has, but he begins molding some of it, and chiseling other parts, and fitting pieces here and changing the composition until it is as perfectly balanced and integrated as the parts permit.

Architects are creative creatures, but they draw blue prints of their comprehensive vision and revise those blue prints until they are ready to build the building. The changes during the building are almost never so great as to transform the building into something other than what was envisioned.

Sculptors and painters will sharply alter a composition in process. They are feeling their way along to find what CAN be.

Self is a painter/sculptor kind of a coach. No matter HOW strong of a vision he starts the season with, who we are can morph from one kind of a team into another. It even happens sometimes when he is resisting the evolution with all of his being. He knows that is not who we are, until he can no longer deny who we are is other than what he thought. Usually, then, he becomes completely consumed with this new vision of who we are. This means Self is not playing every game with an optimal, set script and saying see if you can beat us. Self is saying see if you can be what we are given the level of getting better we have achieved now. And sometimes they do.

Interestingly, it is the coaches that are very set in what they have their teams doing that tend to beat him the first time. They are optimized and Self and KU are still trying to find exactly who they are.

You speculate reasonably that this might explain why Self and KU do not win as many rings as titles.

I think it is a factor that comes into play, since Self and KU have faced an apparent embargo (for whatever reason one cares to rationalize) on top talent at the critical 1 and 5 slots.

Self proved in 2008 that when he had as good of talent as anyone, that he could win the ring, even against a team loaded with ringers.

But in the years since, as his MUA in talent has tended to dwindle, he has taken what he had far, but he has not had enough to go all the way, except maybe one season.

I think the talent deficiency has been tougher for him than it was for Wooden.

Wooden's first two ring teams were, frankly, not teams with all the puzzle pieces. They were instead teams brimming with great athletes of the kind Wooden understand completely. He understood what things they could do in ways that great coaches that were ordinary athletes simply could not grasp.

During the apparent embargo at the 1 and 5, and increasingly the back up positions, Self has shown himself brilliantly resourceful at understanding how coach more and more guys like himself, when he was a player. He has proven brilliant at understanding exactly how players like himself can be blended ingeniously with 2-3 top athletes and playing against Big 12 competition, he can overcome a few failed first meetings and relentlessly get better over a season and in the long haul simply find a superior composition/scheme for his team and walk off with 14 consecutive conference titles.

But at the same time, this approach cannot overcome opponents that are stacked 6 to 10 deep with OADs, and his predilection for getting better after first meeting with a new opponent conspire with hot three point shooting to make his teams vulnerable to upsets by lesser teams.

Self feeds into this dynamic, if you will, by also believing in amping for the better of the two opponents in an NCAA comprised of three two game tournaments. Self amps for the better of the two teams, and coaches his players to find ways to win while laboring for victories against lesser teams. Some upsets result.

But here is the thing: Self probably knows all of the above and is probably working relentless to find a way to get better at the first meetings. He is incredibly resourceful and incredibly determined and my guess is that he will get better at it as Coach K, and Knight and Roy have gotten better at finding ways to compensate in their coaching approaches for never having been great players.

Self can never make himself one of the all time great players and so know first hand what the greatest of the great athletes are truly capable of the way Wooden did.

But I have had a hunch for years that Self is so incredibly resourceful and has so much genius for the strategic aspects of adjusting the schemes of teams, that if he could ever get past this apparent embargo ate the 1 and 5, and get his roster depth back up to snuff, he might through sheer human ingenuity find a bridge across that gap he has in first hand experience of what great players know can be done.

This is why I have so long been kvetching about KU's recruiting problems at 1 and 5.

This apparent embargo, whether an accidental appearance, or a real contrivance, gets in the way of him trying to find a creative away around his own limitations.

Or so it seems to me.

@Buster-1926

She was not only a knock out, but one of many very talented women that Hollywood has made a habit of largely squandering the talent of.

She was a comedienne and they didn't get it until too late.

bskeet said:

Shaq is probably still a little singed from his loss to KU.

PHOF

elpoyo said:

Shareef O'neal commits to UCLA ↗

I guess no one mentioned the streak to him? and the greatness of it?

Man, does this break my heart that this guy is not coming to KU.

We would have had to red shirt him next year and the following year he would have had to play back up minutes.

If his idea of a big time is playing in a juco-sized arena like Pauley, more power to him.

It sure will be fun and edifying for him to hob nob with sex predators in CC, BH and BA at post game parties.

Maybe he can do a one-eyed shoe ad for a petroshoeco, too.

Next.