🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@HighEliteMajor I would think either SF or PF or both? He can play primarily the PF most of the time unless Ridley and Ebeh are on the floor. I actually counted Holmes too.

@VailHawk
We actually had a board rat that used the "Fear Hawk" moniker and called himself Big Man U if I'm not mistaken. I think he used that term quite a bit in reference to Self and his bigs. Big Man U just means the number of 4/5s KU has put into the league.

There were a couple of monikers that were duped. Big Man U with Fear Hawk moniker and icthawkfan316 with toothless Cole Aldrich moniker.

I think Greg Ostertag falls into that Big Man U reference. The Jazz made back-to-back appearances in the NBA Finals in 1997 and 1998, with Ostertag providing strong defense in the playoffs against the likes of Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, and Shaquille O'Neal.

No, PG U won't make much difference. We've had some good PGs.

Yes it includes your PF 4s: Arthur, DBlock, MkMorris, McMorris and TRob to name a few.

I just blew my thought away. I just reviewed UT's scholarship situation and they have 9 on scholarship and 4 walk-ons. In short, they have room for the three that signed and still have room for Turner.

So, it continues. But it is still interesting how Barnes is loading up on bigs with Ebeh and Ridley. They now have 7 bigs, PF/C.

signed a 6-7 SF

signed a 6-9 JC transfer

signed 6-9 Maryland transfer

This tells me that Barnes' chances with Turner have either been reduced dramatically to sign this Maryland transfer or he is simply loading up on bigs for now and into the 2015-16 season, knowing Turner may be OAD.

Is it April 30 ?

@Crimsonorblue22 Yes, Cleare will count against their schollie count.

Well, Barnes is interesting. He just signed a transfer who won't be eligible for a year and he has two others signed a 6-7 SF and a 6-9 center, which means Barnes is over. He has 14 on his roster and one is a walk-on. But he has 13 scholarships, three incoming scholarships? How does he get Turner? Even without Turner, he's still at 16 scholarships. According to their mens bball webpage, there's no news of any transfers or issues. Oh...and...he has no seniors graduating either.

Obinna Oleka, 6-9 JC transfer

Jordan Bennett, 6-7 SF

Cleare, 6-9 C

So, with or without Turner, Barnes is way over in scholarships available. Also, it's strange that he signed two 6-9 players too, with his current roster in Ebeh and Ridley. I guess he anticipates those two leaving at some point. But, they're both projects. He'll likely lose Holmes who is the most likely to draft after next year, but still over all the same.

Looking better for KU or even SMU. My guess is, Barnes was waiting and may have gotten Turner's call. The timing of this transfer news is very telling. But still odd though because Cleare will not be eligible for a year. So, he has this 6-9 JC transfer now and after next year will have the 6-9 JC transfer and Cleare? I guess he's going with Ridley and Ebeh expecting them and possibly Holmes to draft?

Well, Barnes is interesting. He just signed a transfer who won't be eligible for a year and he has two others signed a 6-7 SF and a 6-9 center, which means Barnes is over. He has 14 on his roster and one is a walk-on. But he has 13 scholarships, three incoming scholarships? How does he get Turner? Even without Turner, he's still at 16 scholarships. According to their mens bball webpage, there's no news of any transfers or issues. He has no seniors either graduating this Spring. Oh...and...he has no seniors graduating either.

Obinna Oleka, 6-9 JC transfer

Jordan Bennett, 6-7 SF

Cleare, 6-9 C

So, with or without Turner, Barnes is way over in scholarships available. Also, it's strange that he signed two 6-9 players too, with his current roster in Ebeh and Ridley. I guess he anticipates those two leaving at some point. But, they're both projects. He'll likely lose Holmes who is the most likely to draft after next year, but still over all the same.

Looking better for KU or even SMU. My guess is, Barnes was waiting and may have gotten Turner's call. The timing of this transfer news is very telling. But still odd though because Cleare will not be eligible for a year. So, he has this 6-9 JC transfer now and after next year will have the 6-9 JC transfer and Cleare? I guess he's going with Ridley and Ebeh expecting them and possibly Holmes to draft?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10835610/maryland-terrapins-transfer-shaquille-cleare-signs-texas-longhorns ↗ ↗Well it just got even more interesting because Texas just signed a 6-9 center from Maryland. He's not eligible but it may mean that Turner has picked KU. I don't think Barnes would sign and waste the paper if he was getting Turner.

A very good sign for KU or he's going SMU.

@drgnslayr I hope you're right and even more so, I hope Self brings him onto the hill.

[link text](

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@Crimsonorblue22 KU and Self is way more successful than UT and Barnes. I know it's a hard reality for him to accept, but if you want to be real successful, KU is your choice.

@Crimsonorblue22 In favor of KU? I hope you're right. Against KU, ugh...I got nothing. It's not over till the fat lady sings and we learned that in 1988.

Turner Twitter... ↗This doesn't help at all...I'd say based on what I've read and heard, Turner is all but signed to UT. I don't understand how this could happen in such a short amount of time. Rick Barnes pulled the KD card and just trumped Bill Self.

I'll be surprised if KU gets Turner at this point. Two things are bothering me:

Turner says on his twitter page this is the most difficult decision to make and
the quote of him saying, "...hope I can go down there and do as well as Durant."

I'll be disappointed if we don't get Turner. But it won't be the end of the world. I'm not wasting anymore time following his decision either. When April 30 rolls around, it will be another day at the office for me. I'll read later who he picks.

@JayHawkFanToo And if you listen to bbn, they will be 40-0 yet again. The expectations are flying super higher than ever. They have the twins staying and 15 scholarships. The twins will have to go, one could stay, two will have to leave, or two signed recruits will be denied to the program. I don't see one of the twins staying.

@approxinfinity Oh well, we have a pg in our future, maybe. It sounds like he's looking elsewhere too. I'm not convinced at all that KU is all that high on his list.

<a href="http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/217904-78399-blazers-forward-thomas-robinson-no-complaints-about-year-2-in-the-nba

Great Portland story about TRob and I hope Turner will turn away from the fleeting numbers of Durant and Aldridge long enough to see the heart of TRob which will make him a great player in the long run.

<a href="http://espn.go.com/:

7 mins, 2pts, 0-OREB, 2-DREB, 1-2, 1 TO, 2blks, 1 st, 4 PFs...BUT, TRob has been in the league 3 yrs now? Aldridge has been in the league 7 years. Aldridge got a good break when Oden was sidelined. TRob is having a terrible time finding his team to make him shine like some of these other PF.

However, there's so much a young player needs to remember. He's not those players and at the end of the day, he has to live with his decision. I think he's impressionable toward UT and if Durant is smart and really cares about this kid he would tell him not to decide based on fleeting hype or past players. But, go to the program where you will be happy to play. I really think if he goes to UT it will be because of the Durant and Aldridge hype, not the right reasons. I thought he was an early KU lean which is his initial choice. He should follow his original or eariler thought at the beginning of his initial recruiting. He loved KU and was a big fan of KU, but now he's getting some cold feet of reality. Barnes didn't make KD or Aldridge, but they made Barnes look good. Barnes didn't develop them much at all. Self has worked miracles by taking his PFs and Centers and preparing them for the NBA. Many of them weren't quite ready and he truly developed them for the NBA.

@JayHawkFanToo
We know they have 13. They are losing Young and Randle.

This would make 11. They signed 4, which brings you to 15.

Therefore, one or both twins must leave. It will be interesting to see who Calipari forces out if both decide to stay. But, my guess is one or both will definitely be leaving. Calipari is working hard to get who he wants to stay and leave. I got to give Calipari credit, he dictates to his players and tells them, "you need to stay" or "you can go." It's beautiful to watch and the players that leave are worshipped as gods and the players that stay are deemed wise beyond their years for staying.

@JRyman I was born, bred, reared, and educated KU. I've been to Missouri, Texas, and now Oklahoma. I grew up in Wichita and I followed WSU and the MTXE very young, grade school. That crap was drilled into my brain during many bball camps.
I married a girl from Oklahoma and she is born, bred, reared, and educated OU. So, it's a nice tradeoff. During football, we watch a lot of OU and during bball, watch a lot of KU. We fight during the KU/OU games. But it's all good later :) Our three kids love Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Big Jay and Baby Jay. They don't get Boomer Sooner either. Once I explained what the Boomers and the Sonners were, they decided that being a Jayhawk was much better. She's in education and I'm in a medical field. We now live in the OKC area.

@drgnslayr I'm strung out over UNI. I still can't get over FarokManesh, what's a FarokManesh anyway? What is that? Anywho, I can't get how he dribbled down in then the Ford Arena, looked around, a bit anxious, and pulled up and stuck a dagger right into the heart of Jayhawks everywhere by draining that nasty three.

Oh, don't get me started on the big ugly fella that shot and hit 2 threes and he never shot a three his entire career. Yea, that about sums up KU's opponents. Players from the other teams do things they've never done before to beat KU.

Crap...I can't get that game out of my mind. Everytime I see a UNI shirt, I scream.

Where is Ali anyway? NBA? haha...doubt it.

I'm completely mixed with the Turner camp too. I have no idea what's going on at this point.

@HighEliteMajor I'll go with "ugh"... I just don't know what's up with Senior Point Guard Naadir Tharpe right now. He's got to get his head together and make this a year to remember. Or maybe not, maybe he's done, I don't know, but I can't watch him have another year like last year as a senior no doubt.

@JayHawkFanToo I haven't read beyond your posts. I don't even consider the walk-ons. We are only referring to scholarship players only that impact our current recruiting situation.

I do appreciate your point about Tharpe. I think you're exactly right at face value. However, it depends on if Tharpe wants to play. If you read my post about not knowing much concerning Tharpe's grandfather pass, I said, Tharpe has two options: dedicate this last season to his grandfather and play for something bigger than yourself, ie. TRob's mother OR if he can't get himself straight, he'll have to transfer. Yes, he may play and maybe he's prepared to be a senior and play backup mins to a frosh or soph(?). My guess is, it will be business as usual with Tharpe. I think his ceiling is hit and will settle to just playing significant minutes, but not start.

Lastly, I don't think Green is going anywhere. We all saw Green get significant minutes over AW3, so the writing is on the wall for AW3. However, like Tharpe, if this middle group can wait unitl they're seniors, they will be very good, AW3 included.

I never suggested that Traylor, Lucas, and Mickelson will even think about going anywhere. It does all boil down to AW3.

@drgnslayr Unless Self really thinks transferring is necessary, I don't see him tranferring anyone, save Tharpe. But right now, I don't see anyone leaving. Therefore, Self will simply give the slot to either player. Self making a trip to Euless tells me he would love to have Turner, but he may actually be good with Lucas and Mickelson. I guess if you don't have a player, you can't count on them. Therefore, Self has no choice but to assume that Lucas and Mickelson are the 5 and backup at this point. But for him to travel down to Euless on Easter Sunday speaks volumes of Self's need/desire/want of Turner.

The same applies to Graham. Self is prepared and assuming that Mason and Tharpe are the pgs, but would like to add Graham for obvious reasons. I really don't think Self is a transfer first kind of coach. Yes, it is necessary at times, but just don't see him pushing people for the sake of making room.

So, slayr to answer your question, I'd say that ultimately Self will take either one, but that Turner is obviously the bigger priority. I want to say both/and, but that's pushing it at this point. If he lands both, it will be interesting to see what he does to get both.

Is it April 30th yet? I'd love to get Turner and/or Graham, but the more I think about it, I really believe KU will be ok.

[link text](

Love this clip and the similarities it has with recruiting.

But sadly, if you saw the movie, you know what happened to McGuire and Cushman, Slimey Bob Sugar happened! In the end though, the real winners won. I think this movie, though has a agent/pro player theme, could be the same with college coaches and recruits.

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If Self misses or "passes" ;) on Turner, then he needs to be all out on Jeter. His game reminds me of Lucas only a better defensive set. He seems to be at a high level inside. I'm sure Self loves his inside game and his backside offense is pretty strong too. Jeter would be a good get to follow Lucas and Mickelson, but yet learn from them too. His footwork seems lighter and more agile around the rim than Lucas. Lucas has some lazy feet. I'm real anxious to see Mickelson. The vid shows some outside range too, a bit like Turner.

<a href="http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/16/4963620/7-foot-ku-recruit-myles-turner.html)

Well...I'm beginning to wonder just a little about Turner. I think he's still a KU lean. But, it wouldn't surprise me if he goes to SMU with Mudiay. It wouldn't further surprise me that Self would respectfully sacrifice Turner to LB for obvious reasons. Turner and Mudiay will be sick for LB at SMU. They will be really good in that conference. Also, would likely go to the dance. Self knows that LB is about to retire from bball. I would think LB would be the only reason Self would take on Turner for SMU.

We may not see any transfers. Self's plan may be to hope for Turner, but if not, use that last opening for Graham or pg. I don't see Turner going to the other options for pretty obvious reasons. I doubt staying in Texas is a huge part of his decision. Again, if wasn't leaving Texas why not just commit to Texas earlier? Texas is understandable, but not a big part of his decision making. I hate to say it about SMU, but why not commit to SMU too if you're staying in Texas? SMU may have been his earliest option if it was a Texas thing. So, I think it may have been, "he'd like to stay in Texas," but will go for the reasons he mentions.

dook- full

uk- full

ohio st- full

okiest- well they're full of Ford, but their bigs would definitely give Turner too much comp for pt

a&m- I have no idea where they came from except as another Texas option and maybe to throw people off to thinking he's a "Texas" lean

ut- Ridley and Ebeh...again too much

SMU - needs Turner more than anyone on this list

KU - could use him to fill Embiid's exit and fill a big hole. I just don't see Lucas and Mickleson ready for big play time. But, Self will depend on them if he pushes Turner to LB in some inadvertent way without being too obvious.

@JRyman Tharpe has a big decision to make. Rumor has it that AW3 has already mentioned unofficially that he's returning. If these guys are patient, JTray, AW3, Lucas, CF, Green and Mickelson, they will have a successful year. If they don't see it, they are setting themselves up to be one scary senior laden team, if they won't jump ship. These guys could very well be the beneficiary of 1 or maybe 2 NCs. If you're a coach, looking at what Self is bringing in the next 2-3 years, I'd be skeered.

I had no idea about Tharpe's grandfather and very sorry to hear about him. However, Tharpe has got to decide if he wants to play and maybe dedicate this season to his grandfather by playing with a purpose or go back to business as usual. Maybe going back closer to home would be better if he's not able to decide. Self should have a good talk and tell him to take time to heal his hurt, but to be ready by a certain date. If he's not ready, Self may just encourage him to reconsider other options and at least finish his degree since he's so close to graduation. I hope he makes the right decision.

@justanotherfan I think the Harrison's are gone. If Randall declares, the twins are gone too. I think this will be uk's "down" year because he'll have to get a crop of OADs and teach them his elementary school system of dribble drive. He'll then convince them to "buy" into his system. They will have another year as last year or similar. He'll keep 1-2 key players for another year, then make his usual appearance in the ncaa tourney. I see Calipari in the dance every other year and will likely go deep with his talent.

Not finished yet: Self said KU could still sign one or two players in recruiting. The Jayhawks are in the running for Myles Turner, 6-foot-11 from Euless, Texas, and Devonte Graham, 6-2 out of Raleigh, N.C. Graham announced he’s down to KU, Providence, North Carolina State, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

Of next year’s team, which already includes newcomers Cliff Alexander and Kelly Oubre, Self said: “We have enough players to make a run next year.”

He said the team could be better than this year’s “if things fall right.”

If "things" fall right? I hate HCBS code talk.

@icthawkfan316 Thats the tid bit that keeps me up at night, but I wouldn't be as defeated if it were SMU. However, I'll barf if it's dook. I still think KU is strong and may be why Self is working so diligently with a pg. Turner "may" have told Self, "I really want a good pg coach. I'm concerned about your pg play right now." Self and Co will work this and will win both or with one. Your post raises some interesting scenarios now. Maybe we get both. Maybe Turner has made a decision and Self knows it based on the pg thing. Or maybe we have Turner and Self wants to give the big man a good pg.

Haha...If I had a choice to play with Mudiay or Jones v. any other pg, that would be an easy selection. He recently saw them too.

We'll find out soon.

<a href="http://kckingdom.com/2014/04/12/recruiting-rumors-devonte-graham-garnering-interest-kansas-jayhawks/)

I certainly hope Self and Co are all over this article and have a plan. This article is misleading and if a recruit or recruits see this, it would leave them up to speculation. Maybe there's something to this article. Does anyone think Self is all out on Graham to take the remaining paper at KU? Or do you think Self is still all out on Turner too? If so, Self has to have a transfer in the works to be after both recruits. Self is either going after both and hoping to land both or hoping to land one of them. Or he is aiming to get both because he will have the room. I believe Self is all out on both players and has a transfer in the works, sorry for the transfer, but it's just ncaa basketball.

And wasn't Turner quoted at one point by saying he wanted to play with a really good pg? If so, the sly fox HCBS is giving both recruits a great deal to think about. If I were a pg, I'd kill to play with this team. If I were a big man like Turner and knew enough about Graham, I'd give him a shot at playing as my pg.

Stay tuned Jayhawk Nation because this recruiting is getting good.

I would think Turner is calling or has called the coaches on his list. I think he's made a decision. It's April 16 and he's making an announcement at the JBC April 18. We've had some good luck with twitter announcements and MCD's AA game announcements and even these other game announcements. Cliff was our first hat trick announcement.

Hmm...I think we've hit a nail and brought all our observations to some small conclusion. My final thought is that HCBS can recruit, knows who to recruit, but we all agree just can't quite get that master piece/s to his diabolical plan in April. Here is where we all tend to agree with various noticeable points.

My issue is how does HCBS reel in that diamond, either rough, or semi-polished, insert said diamond into his ring set, and then how will that diamond shine or compliment the other diamonds in their luster. So that when people look at said ring in April, it all makes fairly good sense. I'd love KU to win a NC every 3-4 years, again not out of the question, but Self has got look at his field of dreams and then ask, "if I build it, will they come?" We've seen programs do it maybe with an off year, but for the most part their year is built, they do come, and usually have the year to prove the build.

So, after reading the posts today, Bill Self can and will in his own HCBS way build it, and we can only hope "they" will come. Now, the real test is not so much conference championships, but NCs. I don't want to sound greedy, but as a winner, I have to have the big prize. Unfortunately, a conference championship is a good indication that you're winning with some pieces, because if you fall short in March/April, at least you have something to show for your year. UK missed their conference, tourney, and then settled for NC runner-up or second best.

Would you be happy with runner-up after missing your conference championship? conf tourney? and then settle for runner-up NC? It's an accomplishment, but runner-up is nice and playing in the NC game is great, but just not the same. Oh and yes, KU settled for conf championship and runner-up in 2012. But, just not quite the same, happy, but not NC happy.

Maybe TRob thought the same thought after that 2012 game...

"Kansas also has a lottery pick in AP All-American Thomas Robinson. He was harassed all night by Davis and Jones, and finished with 18 points and 17 rebounds on a 6-for-17 shooting night. He left upset, although not overly impressed with Davis, whom he'll certainly see in the NBA over the next several years.

"He's not Superman," Robinson said. "He's just a great player. I don't mean to be disrespectful by it, but as a competitor, I'm not going to sit here and give all my praise to someone I go up against."

@drgnslayr I think we were originally making the reference to pgs and OADs. I guarantee you a OAD pg will NOT, absolutely, not work in Self's system. Unless Self reconsiders his offensive sets, an OAD pg will struggle. Selby was a good example. He never had a chance in Self's system. He wasn't here to learn and grow as a player. He was here to move on to the NBA. We can now see the results of that attitude. Therein may be why Self cannot get the illustrious, 5 start pg that we so dream about. Self needs to settle on 3-4 star pgs or settle on Tharpe caliber players. I don't think a juco pg will be able to grasp Self's system either.

But if we are waiting for the pieces to be in place, we are in for a long drive to the next NC. Florida's back to back with Horford, Noah, and Brewer are good examples of the magic that is needed to win NC. But that team is rare and almost once in a lifetime experience too. Funny, because we beat that team in the preseason, haha.

Didn't they have Humphrey too?

Turner has offers from Ohio State, Kansas, Kentucky, Arizona, Oklahoma State and Texas.

He could've gone to any one of these programs at any time during the recruiting process or decided way earlier than now. However, each program is slowly tipping Turner's direction. I think Turner has called coaches too.

OhioSt- Thompson is a big give away

Kansas- wide open 5, don't expect Lucas or Mickelson to compete much

UK- full up and Cauley-Stein back and Towns is pretty full (haven't heard from Randall or Johnson)

Zona- Tarc back

OkSt- depleted of most talent, Cobbins likely back, not much comp, but they don't offer much without Smart and Brown.

Texas- Ridley and Ebeh to compete...likely play, but not without comp

@icthawkfan316 Alex will likely be OAD depending on his season, but he has "said" staying around a while isn't out of the question. At least he didn't say what Wiggins said, unequivocally, "I'm going to NBA after this year." Oubre said he'll stay a while too. I think these kids should just keep their mouths closed and wait untill the end of the season, but it could help with other recruits too. Self knew he had Wig's schollie for Oubre.

But we are tip-toeing around the idea or the pink elephant and HEM references in his post, and is pretty much suggesting Self bypass the OAD.

OAD Drama: Is it worth it? Yes/No...No based on HEM's point of view. I'd like to ask Self if he'd do it again. Otherwise, yes, it wasn't a total waste. I agree it didn't do us much good, but how would we've been without Wigs? We'll never know.

Now, if you take HEM's position, and for good reason, you have to take a pass on the OAD. So, you've reduced your NC chances by having one less OAD. Some are calling for a mixture. I thought KU had a great chance last season with 4 seniors and 1 RS soph. Our pg help blow that game for a few reasons. But again, we had the most unanimous situation any team could want and failed. I thought the Florida team was fairly balanced with experience.

EJ- Senior
Tharpe

BMac- Senior

Rel- 5th yr Senior

Young- Senior
Ellis and Traylor

Withey- Senior

I'd kill right now for this team. It looks great on paper, but failed for some reason.

Okay, how long will it take Self to get another team close to this chemistry? 1, 2, 3, 4 yrs? Now we add 1-4 years on since winning in '08, so...will it take 6+ years? 7, 8, 9, 10 years? It can be done, but are we willing to wait for Self's magical system to win or is it going to take another 10 to 20 years before KU sees another NC? This means KU's next possible NC will be 2028? Some of you may not even be around then...I may not be around then. This is pretty sobering. I know Self's goal is win a NC every year (unlikely), and he's not recruiting to win a NC. He seems to be recruiting to his system more than a NC.

We've discussed part of the problem and it's recruiting. But another small part of the problem is Self's system. He needs to modify it a bit. It needs to be more conducive for players to come in and play to their strengths, not the system. I think Self's system has become the norm, not the exception. He needs to recruit players that will lend validity to his system, not the other way around. Wiggins did not fit Self's system. He was great and glad we got him, but his style of play belonged with uk. I don't think there's any coach that has a system quite like HCBS. It's a bit too much to ask of the Tharpes, Masons, Greens, and I'm not saying they can't get it, but it takes a special and talented player to play in Self's system. BStar was Self's poster boy, haha. I really think that's why many of the players we need or could get go elsewhere. Most coaches design around the players, not the players around the design.

If I get another response of a poster saying how spoiled we are because we expect NC all the time, I'll scream. Yes, we expect them. But I don't think a NC every 4-5 years is impossible, difficult, yes, but not impossible. Again, it's the system and the player. The key is getting them together.

So, I'll agree for the most part about OADs. I love them for obvious reasons, and think they do increase your chances, no guarantees, but increase the chances for a NC. I'll buy into the 2-3 year projects, but I think the gamble is larger on the 2-3 year player/system idea than the OAD idea. Calipari spanked Self in 2012 with some OADs and 1-2 yr players. But they bought into Calipari's elementary dribble drive system.

@ralster I think your points are spot on and the answer to your questions are that Self isn't wrong to think he can teach and expect a level of competence in all areas. This is why we say it takes 2-3 years for a kid to learn Self's system. But your point and Self's success will require a kid to stay 2-3 years. If that happens, except for Tharpe, there's a high probability the kid will achieve exactly what Self expects or wants.

We come full circle to all the other discussions. Self's system then is not for OADs. If a kid expects to be OAD, Self's system is not the system to consider. But, what do you tell a kid like Wiggins? Sorry kid, you're OAD. My system isn't for you? Also, if you really believe that about Self, then are we all willing to wait 2-3 years or 4 for that team to develop into what Self wants? Either to get bounced after waiting, working, and playing together for the last 2-3 years or just maybe the luck strikes Self once again to win another NC? I'm not sure. It's a big dilema. Self has to decide. I think Self was a bit surprised when Wiggins announced for KU. He said a number of times after Wiggins committed they were surprised. I don't think Self really thought KU had much of chance for an OAD like Wiggins.

Lastly, throw in yet another scenario such as Embiid. We all agree Embiid had 2-3 year project written all over him. But, he thrived too well in Self's system and became a late OAD too. I don't think Self really expected Embiid to be OAD at all. I think Self thought Embiid would be around at least another year.

So, I come back to my comment above. It's all about the player or recruit. It's not Self's system. It's how the recruit adapts to and allows Self's system to grow on them. I think Selden and Ellis are going to be great examples or poster children for Self's system. I would look ahead at Oubre and Alex too. They may go OAD, but again, Self system will serve them well if they stay at least another year. Turner will fall into the same situation too.

@wissoxfan83 I don't know if anyone else has said it but, Na also came up clutch in the last few mins of the OU game to clinch a share of the title. He backed up his solid defensive effort against UT two days earlier with that stellar closeout performance against OU

I know wissox, I know...believe me. I for one stayed on the Tharpe wagon a long time. He would have a great game and then disappear. I waited and gave him passes up to now. I just don't think he's able to handle the on and off court pressure and expectations. I hope to be wrong, but his last little fiasco pretty much sealed his fate. If he stays, it will be by the good graces of HCBS, but he has really hurt himself in so many ways.

My argument is simple. Look at the other programs. The successful coaches let their players play THEIR positions. Again, I don't disagree with having "combo" anything, if it works. But to force a player who is not going to work in the combo position, is dangerous. KU has faced this all too much. Also, I don't see other coaches pushing their 1s and 2s into "combo" situations. I just think it is almost like taking a great hitter, expecting him to switch hit, and just not being able to make the switch. In other words, he may hit 300-400 as his natural hitting preference and then 200-300 as a switch hitter. Leave players alone and let them play or recruit them at their natural positions. Again, all due respect, but just not workinng well right now.

@truehawk93

Read Ralster's take on the combo guards and how Self's system seems to work best with two combo guards rather than the conventional PG-SG combination. Excellent analysis.

I've read it and agree with his overall analysis. But, it actually proves my initial point about pgs. He's right, it's changed and his detailed analysis about each player is perfect. But, you're not going to find those kids any longer either. I thought the opposite when faced with his post. I kept thinking, "Why can't we find some of the skills of the past players?" It was a great recipe. The kids today can't play within that system. They are too limited. Kids today, since 2008, want that ideal position. They want to focus on being a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. There aren't too many that can "combo" today very well. Self tries to "combo" too much and it backfires.

Funny, because all ralsters examples are perfect examples of "backfired" position failures. Collins is the lone exception, we'll never get another Sherron Collins combo guard. But, TT and EJ were both 2 guards, not combo guards. I think based on what I see from other programs, ie. UConn, UF, UK, Zona, and a few other key teams, your true 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, and 5s thrive.

NOW, I don't disagree with the idea at all, IF the player can make the transition to "combo," then great, do it. But, I don't see players making that HCBS transition to combo, particularly 1 and 2s today. I'll never forget Mario Little and how Self tried to force him into the 3/4 to post him, but Little never really worked well at the 4. He was a true 3. But we had others that worked in the 4 much better than Little. I do think you can combo your 4 and 5s well. Your 3 is a bit more specialized, but possible. I think what ralster fails to remember, it's not Self's plan that is necessarily wrong, but the ability of the player that limits the idea. Again, Collins, Chalmers, RussRob, and others were rare talents that just worked out for Self.

@JayHawkFanToo All due respect Fan, but if not for Snacks, we didn't have a chance with Alex. Snacks changed KU's chances with Alex. However, there is an unfair Chicago connection between the two. NO, you misunderstood my statement. I think Snacks communicates and relates to players better than most. Yes, Self is a huge attraction for players and even parents, but Snacks seems to have a way with these recruits that gives Self an even better chance. Snacks seems to be a players coach and then once they commit, they learn how Self is a player's coach. So, Snacks, Townsend, and Roberts ropes them and Self pulls them into the KU corral. Or you can even say the reverse is true. Self ropes them, and the assitants pull them into KU.

Haith? WTH does Haith have to do with anything? Haith, is no where near Self. But your point is well taken too. You do have to ask, why did Self take Snacks? Just for fun? Experience? Mentoring? All the above? He could've taken Roberts or Townsend, In fact, the East coast is Roberts' area of recruiting. I think there was a pretty good reason why Self took Snacks in particular.

@drgnslayr "The Jayhawks struggled this past season in part because of shaky point guard play, but it seems like a stretch that Graham would be able to unseat Naadir Tharpe in his senior season. Graham could be groomed as the point guard in waiting for the Jayhawks, though there's always the worry that Bill Self could recruit over him."

This is nuts to write. How could any educated and knowledgeable writer say anything remotely like this from the read? Other competing schools will use Tharpe as a deterent. Self has got to 'promise' this kid he will get some meaningful mins regardless. Graham has to understand KU pg is wide open for the taking. His chances are better than any other, even 'senior' pg Tharpe. This writer has no clue how desperate KU is for a pg. Right now, my 6 yr old son can play pg for KU and possibly start. He can handle the ball and makes better decisions than Tharpe. He can shoot as well comparatively. If anything, I'd say Graham would compete with soph pg Frank Mason. That statement is a bit more believeable and this could be used too against KU on the recruiting trail. It's detrimental that KU's strengths on the court can become their weaknesses off the court, particularly recruiting.

@drgnslayr Yep...Self can be a hard read and after all we've discussed about his decision making, he bothers me at times, haha. It's funny how he has Snacks with him during this pg hunt. Snacks is clearly the recruiter and Self is the muscle or there for the parents. I think Snacks really connects with recruits and Self is great with the parents.

I can hear them talking before each visit, "Ok Snacks you take the kid in the livingroom, and I'll occupy the parents in the kitchen. Together we'll land our much needed pg." Just my silly image or vision of Self and Snacks on the recruiting trail. Can you imagine the kid and parents comparing notes? haha, we'll see soon enough.

@JRyman It's interesting when you look at the type of pg Self's system demands. Miles, Collins, Chalmers, RussRob, and TT. It's a bit whacky, but hard to understand why these all did fairly well in some way or another. It seems the common denominator was a specific talent they each brought to Self's system. Tharpe was touted as a fair pg that had a good head on his shoulders and even one of the best at reading on ball screens, and curls with great precision. Some analysts even went so far as to say he had nba type pg instincts. So, I think it's safe to say that Tharpe has lost his edge and focus for bball. I think he's coasting and has other interests right now occupying his mind.

Anywho, you're right we'll all know more over the next few weeks.

I was sitting, reading, and thinking. A very crazy thought entered my head. Self is focusing on a pg now with Snacks. There are some really good prospects mentioned on this board, most all committed. Graham seems to be Self's likely prospect and there also seems to be a good reason why he's tapping his Wolfboro connection ala TRob and Tharpe.

My crazy thought was a bit alarming when this whole recruiting focus shifted from Turner to a pg. Now I'm getting nervous. Most of us think/thought Turner was a solid KU lean:

We don't have Turner and Self is comfortable with the bigs, but wants a pg project? Or as we have speculated all long, we have turner and someone is transferring out. A pg will take the transferring spot. We can't get Turner, keep everyone, and get a pg. Something is going to be sacrificed:

Turner

Tharpe

AW3

pg

We are speculaitng, but Self can't possibly be going into another season with the pg situation of last year. It's going to be a long one. It does no good to have "talent" if you don't have a leader, general, or sparkplug on the court for that talent. For example, Turner and Alexander isn't going to want Tharpe leading with his issues. We've said before that Mason is the closest pg we have right now, but Self is visibly and actively looking at pgs. I can only imagine what Mason and Tharpe are thinking right now.

This should light a fire under Mason. It's going to be a nasty lesson for Tharpe if he is transferring for obvious reasons. What a terrible waste and loss to get this far, only to blow your once in a life-time chance with a program like KU. There are pgs out there that would kill to be in Tharpe's situation. But, Self and Co will get him into a great program like Appleton. I just don't think small pgs, except for Collins, can thrive in Self's system. Appleton was a wasted piece of paper and left for a NAIA program. It happens and the kids have to accept it. It's a lesson to learn, but Tharpe just didn't turn the corner too well. The really sad part is, Tharpe is a junior and one of the worst junior or upperclassmen pgs in the nation. Most junior pgs are improving and leading at this point. Tharpe has failed, pure and simple. I hope he finds a good program and thrives.

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@Wishawk ...Sup-Oubre? That's all I've got right now.