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Jayhawk Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (JOCD)
Apr 23, 2014 04:11 PM #1

Okay. I'm guilty. My clinical diagnosis is JOCD (Jayhawk Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder).

I grew up a JOCK... and I transformed into a JOCD!

On this bright, sunny, beautiful spring day, I should be outside, fondling cherry blossoms. But instead, I'm in my dark, gloomy inside office, hacking away on a computer screen, same as I did a few months ago when we were interior-bound due to arctic cold and ice.

I can't seem to wash this season off my hands enough. I keep washing and washing, but I'm not getting clean from it!

I feel like I can let this out to all of you... since I'm guessing many of you fall into the same category as me. Let's just call this thread "therapy."

I've been looking back at our recent loss... and then the reactions we had in here. Some of us were downright brutal, making almost everyone associated with this team a target. Self... of course it was his fault! Tharpe... boot his rear off the team! Ellis... can't hold his own when it counts! Wiggins... didn't care because Lawrence was just a rest stop on the way to the league! Embiid... was he really hurt so bad he couldn't play?!

I wonder if there is a relationship between having JOCD and axe-grinding after a sour March Madness?

This year's sour ending can not compare to some of our past sour endings. But I think I had more rotten fruit to throw than in previous years. Why is that? Could it be that I fell deeper into the pit of JOCD'ingdom?!

I am starting to come back as a human again. Gardening is my therapy out from a bad March. It is working. Watching my little buddies grow into monstrous veggie producers is quite something to experience. They count on me to help them grow to maturity.

I know my plants are all about having healthy roots. So what is at the root of my anger after we flubbed up against Stanford?

I thought about this in depth yesterday, as I watered my eggplants. And I asked them for guidance, and strangely enough, they gave me some answers.

The more I get involved with Jayhawk basketball, the more I have invested... body, mind and soul. So I expect everyone associated with Jayhawk basketball to at least have as much of a level of commitment as I have. That doesn't seem too much to ask, especially since I'm not drawing a fat check or getting my room/board/education paid for by the university. I'm not out there executing on behalf of the university (although I wear university gear out in public all the time.. so maybe I am).

I'm pretty sure the problem exists in perception. I see things on the tube, or read things online, and then I judge if the accused is being committed enough to Jayhawk basketball. I feel like if it was I who wore the Kansas jersey on the court, I'd spend every breathing second practicing FTs and studying videotape of my next opponent. Yes... that would be me. At least... that would be me TODAY! Because TODAY I am an old man who if I suddenly was wearing that jersey on the court, would only get there through some act from God. My eligibility is all used up and my knees wouldn't hold up one time at full speed. My skills would do more to help our opponents than add to a Jayhawk victory. So, naturally, an honor of representing my alma mater TODAY would keep me motivated to work 24/7 on doing the best job I can. Us old timers know what "working around the clock" is all about.

So I get all bent out of shape because I don't feel like everyone connected to Jayhawk basketball is matching my level of commitment. But am I being realistic? No. No, I'm not!

First, let's discuss the players. 18, 19 and 20 year-olds are not famously known for working around the clock. And why should they be? This isn't the days of slavery in our country. One thing that makes America great is our ability to work and then be rewarded with leisure time. Why should it be different for these kids? And I remember being that age.... I didn't work around the clock.

Second... what about our coaches? They are adults. Why aren't they working around the clock? Well... I'm pretty sure they put in more than a 40-hour work week. When Bill Self says that he has the best job in America, do you think he is saying that because he never stops working? Do you think he worked so hard to get to the top only so he could work 24/7? Still, I'm betting he puts in a truckload of hours.

It is my theory that the people in here that complained the most about the Stanford game also has committed the most to KU basketball. It seems to be what happened to me. If I hadn't posted 1,350 times (just on this site) over the past season, chances are I would have let it go much sooner after the loss.

Take my advice, all you JOCD fans... eggplants never lie!

Apr 23, 2014 04:25 PM #2

@drgnslayr If you're only strung out over Stanford, hats off to you my friend!!

I'm still bent about Bucknell.

Apr 23, 2014 04:39 PM #3

@nuleafjhawk I'm still bent about Bucknell.

'97 Arizona

Apr 23, 2014 04:48 PM #4

Although I really hated those early outs like bucknell, the ones that sting me the most is when I felt we had our best teams. Zona and VCU.

Apr 23, 2014 04:53 PM #5

@JRyman 1957 triple OT game vs North Carolina

lol - not really, but I've heard enough about it that it still upsets me sometimes!!

Apr 23, 2014 05:21 PM #6

@drgnslayr I'm strung out over UNI. I still can't get over FarokManesh, what's a FarokManesh anyway? What is that? Anywho, I can't get how he dribbled down in then the Ford Arena, looked around, a bit anxious, and pulled up and stuck a dagger right into the heart of Jayhawks everywhere by draining that nasty three.

Oh, don't get me started on the big ugly fella that shot and hit 2 threes and he never shot a three his entire career. Yea, that about sums up KU's opponents. Players from the other teams do things they've never done before to beat KU.

Crap...I can't get that game out of my mind. Everytime I see a UNI shirt, I scream.

Where is Ali anyway? NBA? haha...doubt it.

Apr 23, 2014 06:08 PM #7

I would say VCU is the worst loss I can ever remember, just because of the pitifully weak opponents we would have faced had we won. Not only that, but that team was loaded with experienced players, and seemed to be on a mission that entire season. Yeah, they lost a couple games, but they seemed as hungry as any team I can remember, and had the skill and depth to back it up.

We knew this year's team was capable of some awful games, but the 2011 team was not like that. They seemed ready to play every night, and when the ball wasn't going in, they turned up the defense and got to the line. They NEVER played as badly as they did against VCU, which made it that much more painful to watch. I've never been more certain that we'd make the Final Four, and could barely watch that crappy championship game. Ugh!

Apr 23, 2014 06:19 PM #8

I think I have to go back to 1957 and our triple-overtime loss in the championship game to North Carolina, 54 - 53. This was a match up of the AP #1 versus the AP #2. We had that game won and blew it in the last 2 minutes of regulation. Couldn't buy a FT, and it was a missed FT in the 3rd OT that opened the door for UNC to nail two FTs and win the game.

Chamberlain went for 23 points and 14 rebounds. Curious how many blocked shots he had, but they didn't keep that statistic. Maybe 10?

The win for UNC sealed a perfect season, 32-0.

I think if I could go back and change one score, this one would be it.

Apr 23, 2014 07:31 PM #9

@truehawk93 What's a FarokManesh? A guy that turns the ball over if pressed.

@Virgil_Caine - VCU is the top of my list too. I've said this many times ... silver platter. The national title was there on a silver platter.

Apr 23, 2014 08:31 PM #10

@drgnslayr-As old as we are there have been far too many heartbreaking losses. Have to agree slayr, if only one, that (57)would be it.

Apr 23, 2014 08:35 PM #11

@HighEliteMajor @truehawk93 What's a FarokManesh?

I once heard it pronounced Farokmabracketup

Apr 23, 2014 08:38 PM #12

@Virgil_Caine Virg, the VCU loss is the worst of the past 20 yrs for me too. I was Shanghaied with a torn cuff & that pain may very well have something to do with it also, but as soon as I grabbed the rifle to head out in the truck & blow off steam after the loss...it started snowing hell bent for election-so decided to grab the jug instead. The things we do to relieve stress...

Apr 23, 2014 08:47 PM #13

@HighEliteMajor What's a HEM? A guy that forgets Cole Aldrich had respiratory problems and couldn't get back on D very fast...

That being said, 3 hours before that game I was wishing we would open with a press just to get them off balance. Let them worry about adjusting to something we don't plan on doing for long anyway! Now there's a tactic.

Apr 23, 2014 08:58 PM #14

@JayhawkRock78 don't forget Rhode Island. Pretty good team that year too!

Apr 23, 2014 09:16 PM #15

@ Comet
I just looked it up. That year my son was still in diapers and my daughter was born in February. We didn't have cable and I was too exhausted to go to a bar and watch. Sounds like I missed out on the pain Rhode Island handed out that year.

Apr 23, 2014 09:22 PM #16

I do not have a post season loss that stings the most. I try to get over tournament losses in less than two weeks. I usually travel in the summer, reflect and enjoy life, it's too short. I have taken much more positives out of Kansas Basketball than negatives over the past 30 years. I enjoy the ride, each and every year. I could never be a "if you don't win it all, then I am I disappointed" type person. Kansas Basketball is not just about me or my opinions. It is much bigger than that. I am sure these kids are trying as hard as they can. I root for them as I would my own children. When the Jayhawks lose, I say to myself, "It's okay, I am glad you are a part of my favorite school, and I wouldn't trade any of you for anything". I get ready for the next season, because I don't ever see myself not being a supporter of Kansas Jayhawk Basketball. I certainly understand everyone's right to be upset when we lose, but I have to draw the line somewhere. There is not a person on this website that is qualified to coach the Kansas Jayhawks, nor handle the day to day pressures that come with the job. Bill Self is an outstanding coach and should be praised for putting an excellent competitive team on the court each and every season. Everyone can be an armchair quarterback. Not everyone can coach and maintain an elite team at the University of Kansas. Sometimes we as fans get it twisted.

Apr 23, 2014 09:30 PM #17

@JayhawkRock78 We were loaded that year. 35-4. The last year of Pierce and LaFrentz. Lost in the 2nd Round to Rhode Island. Very disappointing.

Apr 23, 2014 09:42 PM #18

One painful loss was that to Texas-El Paso when JoJo's shot was disallowed and UTEP went to beat UK in the NCAA title game. That UTEP teams was later portrayed in the movie Glory Road, a movie rife with inaccuracies.

Apr 23, 2014 10:05 PM #19

@JayHawkFanToo 1992 loss to UTEP was pretty painful as well. We were a 1 seed. A win would have put us in Kansas City with a great chance to make the Final Four. Tough loss.

Apr 23, 2014 10:57 PM #20

@ParisHawk I was just kind of hoping the press would come out at the 10 minute mark in the second half given the pace of the game.

And are you really implying an excuse for losing to UNI? Is that what I'm seeing?

Apr 24, 2014 12:22 AM #21

I told my friends and family that next year was our year before this one even bagan. I still believe that the next 2 years will be much more enjoyable for me to watch. The remedy for getting over our last loss is to think about next years team. Heck in about a month our new freshmen will arrive to enroll in summer classes and we will have our alumni game. Back to the grind in about a month guys. I am ready!

Apr 24, 2014 12:41 AM #22

@Statmachine

Great philosophy... keeping looking forward and there is no time to look back and be disappointed!

I'm going to keep that one... Thanks!

Apr 24, 2014 12:46 AM #23

Arizona in '97 was the worst at the time and remains the worst in retrospect because we can see the talent that was present on that team.

This year's loss was tough because of the hype, the potential.. etc. But it became increasingly clear that this team had some flaws in addition to their youth.. and they never learned how to compensate for their deficiencies.

It's tough to pick a #2 most painful loss..
I would probably pick Bucknell because I just didn't see it coming. And my wife is an alumni, so I'm reminded of this frequently.

The Michigan collapse of 2013 is a close #3 - With 2:30 left in the game, KU led 72-62 and had the ball... and had a 99.4% chance of winning the game.

UNI would be #4 -- That team was so talented and should not have lost.

UTEP in 92 is #5 -- people forget, but I agree with @KansasComet It was was really a stunner.

Duke in 86 is #6 -- The first time Johnny Dawkins messed with us. Archie Marshall was injured.. we should have won that game and then we would have beat Louisville.

URI (98) #7 -- yes.. We lost to Rhode Island and Lamar Odom. This was the classic Roy Williams loss that should not have been. KU was stacked with talent again. But the previous year's loss to Arizona softened the blow a touch.

VCU (2011) #8 The hubris with that team was its undoing.

Bradley (2006) gets #9 -- only because we were numb after being knocked out by Bucknell the year before.

Stanford (2014) is #10 for now. The 'Experiment' ended one game before JoJo could make an appearance in the big dance.

It's too depressing to go beyond 10.

Who was left out of this ignominious list? Syracuse (2003)? UCLA (2007)? Purdue in 94 with Big Dog Glenn Robinson?

(P.S. this list is based on my memory of KU Basketball... I was less than a year old in 66 when KU lost to Texas Western, so that is not on my list nor is the classic 57 game that @drgnslayr mentioned.)

Apr 24, 2014 01:59 AM #24

They all sting. But some of them, even though we had good teams, were out played by other good teams. Arizona, for instance. They beat 3 number 1s. During the tournament they were the best team. Certainly not all year, but during the tournament....they were.
VCU, sure, silver platter. But....we never even hinted that we were going to win that game. Outplayed from the jump.
Bradley.....that team was so young. Deer in the headlights. After that near halfcourt shot before halftime...we were done.
Michigan last year is the worst.....not because it is recent.
We played well and had the game in hand for 38 mins. All we had to do was not screw up and make free throws. Couldn't do either one.
We had the game and blew it in astounding fashion.
Having the game won and blowing it in the last 2mins. is just worse for me.
I need to stop talking about...I'm getting upset all over again.

Apr 24, 2014 02:25 AM #25

@Hawk8086 depressing thread!

Apr 24, 2014 02:34 AM #26

A UNI grad, that I occasionally work w/, has a-you guessed it- a framed score from our game! Barf!

Apr 24, 2014 03:11 AM #27

@Hawk8086 I somehow put Michigan out of my mind. I agree that is one of the worst.

I'll amend my post above and put that at #3, though there are arguments to be made for #2 or #4.

Apr 24, 2014 03:13 AM #28

@KansasComet
Like what you said- I will send a personal note later.

Apr 24, 2014 10:00 AM #29

@HighEliteMajor "are you really implying an excuse for losing to UNI?"

No, I was implying an excuse for not using the press, at least very much.

I understand there have to be adjustments during a game. Still, it seems hard to say "OK, we've done what we're most comfortable with and we're behind, so now let's catch up by doing what we're less comfortable with".

I would have preferred "win the opening tip (we did), get the ball into Cole for an inside bucket (we did), then press immediately" when they don't expect it. Get them on their heels, get them thinking, get them wondering about adjusting to something that we will then stop using.

Adjustment = reaction. Why not be proactive from time to time?

Apr 24, 2014 11:34 AM #30

The loss that hurts the most is all of them, simply because I have no perspective, and I feel like we should win every game. Welcome to the world of KU myopia - I live there every year...

Apr 24, 2014 01:06 PM #31

@nuleafjhawk Blame the state legislature who forced Allen to retire at 65. (Hard to believe.) Phog would not have lost to UNC!

Apr 24, 2014 01:06 PM #32

February 9, 1900

Topeka YMCA

Apr 24, 2014 01:57 PM #33

Oklahoma St, the Marcus Smart backflip.

Kansas St.

Missouri

Those losses hurt, they sting, they burn a hole in my soul and make me despise those teams that beat us and made a Tshirt, or DVD or got on SportsCenter for a win in AFH, or hung a banner for beating good ole KU.

Then again I'm happy like a room without a roof that I don't have to be one of those fans that relies on one game every 7 years to make my life happy.

Apr 24, 2014 01:59 PM #34

@JRyman THANK YOU

I really wanted that song floating around in my head the rest of the day.

Although.......it DOES make me happy !!

Apr 24, 2014 02:09 PM #35

@nuleafjhawk

Bravo.... at least we beat Haskell twice that year!

We went 3-4 in 1900. Naismith was a better innovator than coach.

Oh man... you shouldn't mention a song stuck in your head. Every time I hear that it triggers, "Dude looks like a lady" by Aerosmith. What is it about that song? If the CIA ever figures it out they will stop waterboarding and just play that song 24/7 until they talk. They don't even have to know English for it to work.

Apr 24, 2014 02:18 PM #36

@drgnslayr I always hear " If lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right " and I think of Roy Williams. Please don't tell anyone.

Apr 24, 2014 02:29 PM #37

@bskeet Great list. My list is similar so I will just give 5.

No. 1 VCU 2011. The team we had was stacked. The draw in front of us was a joke. We should have won this title more than any other year except 1997. I hate Shaka Smart. Anything else I can add?

No. 2 Michigan 2013. This is probably the one and only time I have been guilty about making plans for where to watch the next KU game during a game that we then lose. Up 10 with a couple to play. Missed layups, throwing the ball away, giving up 3's instead of 2's...all of that hurts. But what hurts the most is that this was as veteran a team as you could ever have in today's college basketball and we blew it.

No. 3 Arizona 1997. At least this team went on to cut down the nets and proved they were pretty stellar but when you have the most talented team in KU history it is hard to believe that this team did not at least get to the Final 4.

No. 4 Bucknell. This has to be one of the biggest upsets in tourney history and came against a pretty good KU squad. Senior years for a ton of studs. I was so intoxicated by the end of the game that it is a blur but it still stings to this day when I even hear the word Bucknell.

No. 5 Kentucky 2012. I know that this one is odd since it was an amazing season with an amazing run and we had no bench but god we were close. After getting sort of blown out early we clawed our way back into this game and missed a number of open shots late that could have made this a close one. I really hated that UK team which probably adds to my continued disappointment.

Apr 24, 2014 02:35 PM #38

@joeloveshawks I don't even need my glasses for this!!

Apr 24, 2014 02:56 PM #39

Ah, the memories. I was taught at an early age that you must taste the bitterness in life to fully appreciate the sweet, and that certainly applies to being a sports fan.

It's funny, as I watched the confetti rain down in 2008, I had my own anti-One Shining Moment montage playing in my head. I remembered watching the Hurley-to-Hill alley-oop, UTEP, screaming at Eric Pauley to quit fumbling rebounds against UNC, wishing Glenn Robinson would freaking miss, seeing John Wallace dominate the post, the insanely good guard play of Arizona and Rhode Island, coming up just short against Maryland, knowing in my heart that Michael Lee's 3 was going in, thinking Wayne would make that turnaround jumper at the buzzer, wondering if we'd ever make a layup against UCLA.

I thought about all those games, and all those teams and players, and winning that championship game made it all worth it, as if it avenged all of the crushing losses we'd suffered since Danny brought home the trophy in '88. All that bitterness made winning that title so, so sweet.

Apr 24, 2014 03:09 PM #40

@nuleafjhawk no idea why the letters are so large. Certainly not on purpose. Sorry about that.

Apr 24, 2014 03:21 PM #41

@joeloveshawks No worries friend. I wonder - did you start your items with the # sign? I think that "blows up" the font. Something like that anyway.

Apr 24, 2014 04:03 PM #42

@joeloveshawks

why so large?

Apr 24, 2014 04:10 PM #43
  1. Arizona, 1997. The worst because it was the best KU team ever.

  2. VCU, 2011. Silver platter.

  3. Syracuse, 2003. Free throws.

  4. Maryland, 2002. Winner of semi easily better than Indiana.

  5. UNI, 2010. Just embarrassing.

  6. Michigan, 2013. Because we were a veteran team, presumably with all the pieces.

  7. Kentucky, 2012. Mitigated because of our incredible, unexpected run.

  8. UCLA, 2007. A bit forgotten because we won the tourney the next season.

  9. Virginia, 1995. Thought Kemper was an advantage.

  10. Rhode Island, 1998. Arrogant Jim Harrick made it worse.

Apr 24, 2014 04:24 PM #44

Let's not forget the Battle of New Orleans and 1 point loss Wichita State. Luckily the last time we played them we beat hem by 49 points.

Apr 24, 2014 04:42 PM #45

Let's not lose track that all these loses hurt, and many if not most are considered upsets, because KU is such a good program. If KU was middle-of- the-road program these loses would not be considered upsets, would not sting as much, we would be glad we made it to the tournament in the first place and would not be talking about them at at all; in fact, this forum would not even exist. Every other elite program has a comparable or much larger list. If you think our loses are bad, they don't look so bad when compared to UK and its band of superstars losing to Bobby Mo in the opening game of the NIT; now, that is embarrassing.

Let's be happy that we have such good program where every loss is an upset and stings...after all, how many other programs can say the same thing?

Apr 24, 2014 05:08 PM #46

The wins that stay with me:

1988 vs OU title game
2008 vs Memphis title game
The last Border War win!
2008 UNC tournament game
The Nick Collison vs Texas game
Beating OK st this year
ISU EJ goes off for OT win

Apr 24, 2014 05:42 PM #47

@JRyman Attaboy! There are plenty of unforgettable wins. For me, the UNC semifinal game in 2008 stands out. Not only was there so much hype because of the Ol' Roy thing, it's hard to overstate how intimidating that team was. Fortunately we played some of the finest basketball I've ever seen played, and took the game in about 15 minutes.

Some of my other favorite wins that I was fortunate enough to catch in Allen Fieldhouse: 1994 vs OK State, when Woodberry hit the three at the buzzer. 1995 vs UCLA, when we came back from like 15 down to win, featuring Jacque Vaughn's spin move that is in virtually every KU highlight reel. New Year's Day 2005, when we won against GA Tech in overtime.

The Durant game, where he was scoring at will before getting hurt...when he was lying on the floor, the entire place was dead silent. It was really something. We all knew we were seeing a truly special player, and the thought of him injured was sickening. Luckily he came back in, and KU got back into the game and pulled it out! To this day, I've never seen a more captivating player in person. Embiid was close, but the presence of Durant on the court was something I'll never forget.

Another game that we lost, but it never really felt that way, was Texas in 2011. That was the game where T-Rob's mother died the night before, and the boys were up all night with him. We saw the true meaning of FOE that day, and they played excellent to begin the game, but ultimately just ran out of gas. That's one of many reasons that I'm still sad about VCU - that team flat out deserved a championship. Tough players, great teammates, and just pure winners all around.

Overall, I'll take a loss before I'll take no game at all. Something about gameday gets me going like few other things can. Great thread; plenty of wonderful memories from a lifetime of watching KU hoops!

Apr 24, 2014 06:45 PM #48

@Virgil_Caine OMgosh! The Texas game after TRob's mom passed, is the worst game for me! Wasn't thinking along those lines. The pics of him and his sister, how KU and NCAA worked to help them, was a week I won't forget! Would love to read a story about him and his sister. I was worried about him after reading about him driving over 100 mph and having a few accidents. FOE!

Apr 24, 2014 06:57 PM #49

Yeah, I suppose it was pretty morbid to list that one as a "favorite," since obviously we all wish that had never happened to that young man. I just found it to be inspiring the way all the players, fans, and even the Texas personnel responded to the horrible news. I sure wanted our guys to come away with that win, but it was also refreshing that there was a collective shoulder shrug when we lost...that day was a reminder that even though we place great importance on winning and losing, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't truly matter all that much.

Apr 24, 2014 07:10 PM #50

@Virgil_Caine you are exactly right!

Apr 24, 2014 11:29 PM #51

@nuleafjhawk - Don't laugh but my Dad played for the Topeka Y in the 30's. He could still dunk when in his early 40's-one handed. He was only 5'10" but was a pole vaulter/long jumper in college with extremely strong legs.

Apr 24, 2014 11:41 PM #52

Maryland's center, shaq cleare transferred to Texas. Sooo, he can't play next year, but he still takes a scholarship, right?

Apr 25, 2014 11:09 AM #53

@globaljaybird Wow! I would never laugh at that - that's way cool ! And to be able to dunk in his 40's is one heck of an accomplishment - then throw in the 5'10" thing - your pops must have been quite the athlete! Thanks for sharing.

Apr 25, 2014 02:33 PM #54

@nuleafjhawk-Thanks leaf, he really was. In the mid 1950's he could still take the grab irons on a caboose & hold his body straight horizontal like a gymnast. I've posted before that he ran track in the 25 & 26 KU Relays & was also a 3 sport letterman at Baker & Pitt. In those days an enlarged heart was thought to be an "athlete's" heart, but he passed in 1959 at the age of 50. Decades later medicine learned that an enlarged heart is pretty much a death sentence without a transplant. But thanks leaf, he really was the guy that created my fervor & fire for KUBB. I listened to the 52 Championship & the 57 loss both with him on our upright Hoffman shortwave. Before my time, Mom said they used to pick up Tokyo Rose on it during WW 11.

Apr 25, 2014 02:47 PM #55

Man, if you were listening in 52 you must have a gazillion ku stories through the years.

Apr 25, 2014 04:41 PM #56

@JayhawkRock78-So many seasons have come & gone that far too many have become faded with age. That's why I try to quickly let go of the bad & savor all the good things possible. You just never know when it's your last tip.

Apr 25, 2014 04:58 PM #57

@globaljaybird
So true,
My last KU event with my dad was Late Night this fall. At least we got that one in.

Apr 25, 2014 05:16 PM #58

@JayhawkRock78-Cool stuff Rock, always savor the moment.
Not meaning to sound corny or hokie, but I once read an enlightening (book) perspective about not holding on to the past & hate. Is one of many favs & is the George Foreman story titled "God In My Corner." It lays out the reasoning in plain & simple English. It is sitting right beside the Dennis Byrd book "Rise And Walk." I also once listened to KSU Bill Snyder speak & give testimony about his daughter being paralyzed in an auto accident, & how virtually by miracle she regained the ability to walk. Some things can be logically explained while many others just can't.

Apr 25, 2014 09:25 PM #59

I've been out of the loop for a few days. Interesting discussion here. I was most crushed by the Syracuse game in 03. Arizona is a close 2nd. All of the rest were just embarrassing more than crushing those teams were mostly flawed teams anyways. I'm going to add Duke in '86 to the list mainly because we just got screwed by the refs and then Archie went down and a team in the finals whom we had beaten twice

What about most forgettable wins? Any low major. I remember one year with a one seed beating Holy Cross in very unconvincing fashion, but I think that team went to the FF. Beating Davidson in '08 was only made memorable by the fact we won it all. I enjoyed not one aspect of that nail biter except watching Curry's final shot miss.

Apr 25, 2014 09:43 PM #60

Actually we doubled Curry and forced him to pass it to another player who missed the shot. Self was squating on the floor, and when the shot missed at the buzzer, nearly dropped his Knees to the floor and he leaned over and slammed his hand on the floor in relief.

Apr 25, 2014 09:44 PM #61

@wissoxfan83 Ah, yes, Holy Cross. I believe Hinich hurt his ankle in that one, which had us all pretty nervous.

The reason Curry's shot didn't go in is because a brilliant defensive switch forced the ball out of his hands, so their other guard had to hoist it. Rush was on Curry, then lost his footing and fell, so Chalmers immediately switched onto him, luring him back towards Rush near the top of the key, so with both of them near him, Curry had to pass off. Can't remember the other guard's name, but he heaved it off the backboard. I have no doubt in my mind that Curry would have nailed a 3 without that switch.

Apr 25, 2014 09:51 PM #62

@Virgil_Caine
Gotta hand it to you Virg, you 've got the details down on that play.

Apr 26, 2014 03:44 AM #63

@Virgil_Caine Oh thanks! I forgot that he didn't shoot it. Glad he didnt, he'd probably have made it.

Apr 26, 2014 07:11 PM #64

Hey, while you're pondering the worst losses, think Francamp for a moment...overlooked in the loss to Stanford was CF's shining moments in that game. The steal, the perfect pass that ate Stan's defense up, those beautiful, clutch 3 pointers from a mile away...OMG. Let Naadir go play doctor with his little nurse, and get that Mister Francamp into the lineup every minute you can, Bill.

Apr 26, 2014 09:20 PM #65

@KUSTEVE jethro, Frankamp did indeed have some great moments in the final game. I believe he will have many more. But, he did have some chances and fell short most of the time. As far as Tharpe goes, I'm not promoting him, but he had a great game against OU, that one stands out the most. My point is, one game does not assure coach, Conner is the guy. He may be, Mason may be. I'm just hoping they all make huge improvements over the summer.

Apr 26, 2014 09:52 PM #66

@Virgil_Caine referring to TRobs loss, I remember how gracious Frank Martin was to our guys, even donating to the Jayla fund and encouraging others to do the same. I don't always agree w/Frank, but I miss him in the conference. He always respected coach Self!

Apr 27, 2014 12:42 AM #67

@JRyman Yea I don't know if I'll ever forget that 97 Arizona loss. That one really stung. I also think the VCU loss left a mark too.

Apr 27, 2014 06:12 AM #68

@Crimsonorblue22

Fran Martin off the court is a really classy individual who cares deeply about his players. His on court persona is not representative of the real Frank Martin.

Apr 27, 2014 03:47 PM #69

What's helped me get over losses is simply see the game from a coach's perspective. The quote from Darnell Jackson after UCLA knocked us out in the 2007 Elite8, sums it up for almost EVERY Tournament loss: "We didnt do/got away from what brought us here".

If we dont execute our season-long and nation-leading FG% defense, we are vulnerable. We just became any-ole-tourney-team-with-a-few-athletes if we dont execute decently. That defense, coupled with high%plays offensively can be dominating... especially against inferior opponents, but it also should keep you in a game vs a dangerous opponent.

When you dont do these two things, you just gave away the 'edge' that Self gives us.

The game tape doesnt lie:

Bucknell -- Seniors underperformed. Didnt execute Self's system, because they didnt buy into it fully. Langford admitted it 4yrs later. Bad chemistry between players and coach.

Bradley -- Lots of frosh. Who are prone to more outings with inconsistent execution of the system. Heck, they may not even fully know the system. Really cant expect that '06 team go too far in the Tourney...

UCLA -- Didnt execute the gameplan. Played D, got lots of strips/steals, but also GOT stripped and turned it over. If you recall, it was like KU vs UNC, except we didnt finish the bunnies/layups, mainly Rush+Chalmers. They learned. They played within the system the next season.

(Davidson/Memphis 2008..) -- NOT losses, but very well could have been. I put these wins here because they very easily could have been losses (the "Madness"..) --> this is to remind ALL of us that off-nights can happen to very good, sound teams (see AZ, FL, MichSt, Syracuse, WSU in the 2014 Tourney). That would apply to 97 KU also. Would Bill Self still be here if he hadnt won it all in 2008?

MichState -- Frosh heavy. Cole + Sherron, 2-man team. Twins get manhandled, and realized they were "soft". They changed that to their immense credit, and to Bill Self. We destroyed lesser opponents, as a dominant bigman + a dominant guard can get you far...but against a solid experienced and bruiser-type lineup like MichState, our weaknesses got exposed.

UNI -- Honestly, we didnt play D. Sherron did have a pulled groin, so was 80%. I'd buy that, as we all saw he didnt look like the same Sherron Memphis and UNC faced, nor the one Wille Warren got blasted into anonymity by. That UNI-Sherron went 0-6 from trey (and he was a trusted senior shooter, with a pure trey gun since Day 1 as a frosh), and also he got stopped by 6'6 tub-o-lard O'Rear. Man, people quit the angst about Ali Farokmanesh, a 6ft guard with no hops, and their "happy giant" Egelseder 7footer who hit 2 threes. Ask yourselves 1 question: Where is Ben Jacobsen now?? ...yep, back to anonymity in the brutal MVC (chuckles...). I dont see UNI's fairy-tale upset of a royalty program having done ANYTHING for their recruiting or national stature. I see the problem being Tyshawn, Sherron (perhaps excused), and Tyrel Reed NOT PLAYING DEFENSE. Come on, people, same old analytical fact comes up to bite us in the tail, and yet there is all this angst. Seriously, if you cannot beat a melting-pot hodge-podge team like UNI, you deserve to sit at home. E-s-p-e-c-i-a-l-l-y if you got a royalty program name on your jersey. Again: If you cannot do what made you 30+ great all season, in a game that counts, then you werent great enough to deserve to advance. Call this the Iron Law of the Tournament. Survive your off-night and advance.

VCU -- It seems that Shaka Smart did a fair amount with 1 set of recruits (Skeen, Rodriguez), but chose to stay, avoid high-profile pressure...and then has faded also: Got blown out of the Tourney in 2013 with a 25pt loss. So, what did that fairy-tale upset of KU do for Shaka? Did it help his recruiting? Did it enhance VCU's national stature? Umm...Im starting to think UNI and VCU are just George Mason-type flash in the pans. How about FloridaGulfCoast? Pull a couple of upsets, then disappear as soon as the arena lights are turned off. Oh, and in the meantime, Billy Self is busy recruiting, crafting Conf champs 8, 9, 10...and putting together a NC/Final Four run the year after VCU. The lesson of VCU is if our guys dont respect the opponent, or dont execute our D, and dont go for the high% looks, then we arent (in that game) who we "were" all season 30+wins long. Yes, KU was the overall 1seed...BUT, wasnt it this same 2011 team that "looked past" the Tennessee walk-ons and got embarrassed? So maybe that is the reason we didnt execute our 'vaunted' defense against VCU. You cannot say they were more athletic than us. Story of the game was: lack of D, Reed 1-for-7 trey (trusted senior shooter, but with bum foot), and Markieff's 6 t.o.'s. Marcus + Tyshawn showed up to play, but 2man teams dont get very far. Having an uberfrosh No.1 rated PG (Selby) at 80% with a bum foot also didnt help our depth or explosiveness either. It hurt because we saw weak Duke get an easy path NC, and I know our guys would get "up" for a name opponent. We would have destroyed Duke, and trash-talked them while doing it. I'm not sold on the "bad hubris" angle. Selby was snake-bit 3 ways (ncaa + 2 separate injuries), and this group of athletes tended to look past inferior opponents (Tennessee). Trash-talk all you want...if you can back it up. That is nothing new, ask Michael Jordan. I dont mind that swagger. Notice Self even said he didnt mind the trash talk "as long as we back it up on the court". We didnt execute our defense...& shot a bad%...AND turned it over = we lose. Dont look at the overall 1seed...look at the game tape of VCU, if you can stomach it. Sooo, so, so easy to see why we lost to an inferior, flash-in-pan team like VCU. Get over it.

Kentucky -- Our 2012 team had heart. Also a habit of starting off cold, and getting in big holes. They almost dropped the final Mizzoo game in AFH, but pulled it out, making it one of the best wins in KU history. Tyshawn + Elijah, god love them both (& I sorely miss both still), took us all the way. Starting 5 good as anybody, but no bench. What could have been if Yr2 Selby +/- Markieff were available? KYo getting his broken hand in his altercation with the 6'9 white kid from TX who then never played, and transferred due to "concussion"...surely didnt help our depth development. Nor did Selby, foolishly deciding to go pro? So that run ended, 3 missed dunks and 2 bricked FTs short. But they gave us wildly spectacular memories over OhioState, UNC, and Purdue.

Michigan -- A painful TEAM-FAIL lesson in NOT executing down the stretch. Oh, and everybody had a hand in that downfall...from EJ turning it over on the dribble and passing up the final layup, to BMac missing the pointblank baseline layup, Withey and KYo giving McGary that uncontested reverse layup, after a loose 50/50 ball, and Releford just absolutely disappearing the last 2:30. EJ also missed 1 (ONE) critical FT that would have put us up 4pts with less than 10sec (Burke's 3 wouldnt have mattered). The 10sec call on EJ was bogus, it was 8.5 sec. Tape doesnt lie, nor would Self call a bench TO, because he didnt think it 10sec either. Why would he call a timeout when we were trying to run off clock? Frankly, it came down to EJ not making 1 FT that gave Burke the opportunity.

Stanford -- Stanford upperclass, long team. Recall the packed in zone? Tarik held his own (18pts), but paid the foul price. 6'8 Ellis and 6'8 Traylor showed limitations to their game, with different analysis for each. I am sharply critical of Perry Ellis. Traylor? Not quite the finisher that Ellis can be...AND we get beat by EKY in the first round (yeah, Mercer-style. NorfolkState style) if Traylor doesnt go 18 & 15. Think about that, and realize this team was a season long aberration from true, dominating Bill Self basketball. The defense and toughness were just pitifully disgusting, with Wiggins and Selden being the most consistent bright spots, along with Traylor. Embiid showed enough glimpses to become an OAD, did enough things to tip the balance in KU's favor (mostly) on both ends of the floor...but once he was out, it would take a team effort, which was precisely why this team faltered. It didnt have an identity. And y'all saw the guardplay. Come on, we werent going far. Again, it took a superhuman effort by Traylor just to get this team past Eastern Kentucky, which was a 1 possession game with 2-3min to go.

We sat at home, exactly as we should have, since much, much better defense was being played by almost every team in the Elite8. "Only 25 wins" tells you this team had serious flaws, for a Bill Self team. Which tells us Self's best products are his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year teams. Not a frosh heavy one. Even one with 2 of the top3 NBA picks. When Wiggins can score Durant-like 41pts (at WVU), but KU still loses the game...y'all know thats just not who we are.

Game tape and season-long stats tell the story. This year, we got felled by both. But because of the season-long trends, the Stanford loss shouldnt be such a shock, now should it? I'm NOT going to stroke fellow fans' hands like some girl and say "I know it hurts", because the truth of "why" is simply overpowering, and cannot be ignored. I know the players carry the loss with them forever, in a way us fans & alums simply cannot. Care to ask Sherron about UNI, or Collison about Syracuse? Or Reed about VCU? Or how about asking Thomas Robinson, Tyshawn, and Elijah about Kentucky...and coming that close? I think our players pay the ultimate price, as they get to carry that L forever with them, in a way that we never ever could. They will be running re-plays over and over in their memory...but the only kicker is that THEY are in the replay, not executing, not playing D, or failing at the FT line. I will, as a result, be 110% supportive of our past players. Their battles on the hardwood are over. I'll love all those Jayhawks forever, win or lose. I am less patient with fans (including myself). We need to just understand the reason for the loss, and look for corrections & improvement the following season. That's really all we can do. Nobody's team will win it every year. Part of being a fan, of even the winningest programs, is learning, within ourselves, how to handle defeat and learn from it.

My advice: Get ready to Dance next year. And the year after. And the year after that. Put Self's W% to work for your brain: If he gets in the NC game 4 times, odds are his system/team will win it over 75% of the time. We. Are. Due. But you got to build the machine all season AND never let off the pedal til you get to that final game.

RCJH! Is it October yet...

Apr 27, 2014 04:27 PM #70

With Embiid I still think we could have won it all. How many picked UCon?

Apr 27, 2014 04:38 PM #71

@Crimsonorblue22 Yep, crimson, BigBiid gave us a fighting chance, but we just werent the same without him. He gave confidence, as well as literally igniting several transition breaks, and demoralizing opponents. Hoiberg was about as frustrated in a press conference as I've seen him after Embiid schooled IowaState in their own gym.

Wouldnt have picked 7seed UConn, who knew? But there is a consolation, sort of: Look what happened to better teams than this year's KU: FL, AZ, MichState, Syracuse, VA, WSU...ALL bounced! It happens, so how much lamenting can/should we really do about it? We arent some fans of some little school that makes the Tourney once every few years...we go every season, so...with all arrogance aside, we should critically judge each team entering the Sweet16 and be really honest about possible weaknesses and flaws. Good opposing coaches have a way of exposing your weaknesses, just like Stanford did. And if we get beat before the Final 4, allow hindsight and gametape to give the reason on a platter.

Apr 27, 2014 04:56 PM #72

@ralster I think of EJ when you mentioned players carrying losses w/them. It's unfair for him to carry that load!

Speaking of Embiid, have you watched any NBA playoff games. I'm not a big fan, but follow Jhawks and watch playoffs. I can't believe how they can physically go off on each other and are either just fined or suspended. I can't see how our young (green, soft?) ones can physically hang? Any thoughts?

Apr 27, 2014 06:58 PM #73

@Crimsonorblue22

The NBA playoffs have been ubber-competitive this year. Lots of overtime games and lots of wins by visiting teams...an a lot of very physical play. I guess there is a lot more parity in the League now.

Apr 27, 2014 09:19 PM #74

@Crimsonorblue22 Not seen playoffs yet...usually I will watch the Conference Finals (Eastern and Western), then the Finals. I will admit I am a Heat fan, as obviously our hero Chalmers plays for them, and literally gifted the Heat a game in 2 separate seasons' Finals. LBJ, Wade, and Bosh owe a piece of their championship rings to Mario Chalmers.

I'm also a LBJ fan, as he is a beast and a matchup nightmare. (My all-time fave player was MJ, but the two cannot be compared. If LBJ wins 7 rings, I might consider him for "best ever", but its MJ for me, for life.)

I've been a D.Wade fan ever since Shaq + him won a ring in 2006? D.Wade was that quiet-type of superstar. But I'm afraid that D.Wade's days are numbered due to his ongoing knee problems.

Always, deep down, will pull for KU players who are on NBA teams, Thomas Robinson and any of the 2008 guys, especially.

Apr 27, 2014 09:25 PM #75

@ralster let me know what you think after you watch. Anxious to see how the KU young pups do, hope for the best!