Time to start this up again for the new year.

Buckets site seems to be having issues uploading so will have to wait to upload stats

Kenpom- #3

Torvik- #2

PER's- Everyone is gravy

If Hunter was a Hawk his entire career, he would currently sit #14 on the all-time scoring list. He's got a shot to sit 2nd unofficially after this season ends.

@BeddieKU23 But can they shoot? I was told this team couldn't shoot. Any stats on that from the first real game?

@BeddieKU23 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

Kenpom- #3

Torvik- #2

PER's- Everyone is gravy

If Hunter was a Hawk his entire career, he would currently sit #14 on the all-time scoring list. He's got a shot to sit 2nd unofficially after this season ends.

hmmm, I just read artice off ESPN and it in the article had KU 2nd in the Kenpom - -Houston 3rd - Ariz 6th - & Baylor 7th - - but hey either way pretty dam god.

@benshawks08 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

@BeddieKU23 But can they shoot? I was told this team couldn't shoot. Any stats on that from the first real game?

Like Coach said, he doesn't believe we are as bad as what we showed in Exhibitions & probably not as good as against our first opponent. - -I know it's one game BUT ya we can shoot. just like any other team just depends from night to night. Here are the stats you were looking for

KU in the 1 st game : - - 69.6 % - - -80 % Free Throw - -& 56.5 % three point shooting. -- -Kevin - -66.7 % - - Hunter 88.9 % - -Timberlake 80 % - -Adams 75% - - Braun 83 % - -Jackson 60 % - -& Furphy 50 % plus the other players. So ya think we can shoot the ball ok.

KEV

3rd player in KU History with a triple double. Way to go Kev. Not your best game but he showed why he's a really good all around player. Tough as nails

I'll make a prediction that he will have another triple-double before the end of the season. He's that kind of player and the system is now innate for him.

Update post Kentucky win.

Kenpom #3- #10 offense, #4th defense

Torvik #2 - #7 offense, #2nd defense

Hunter and Kev were in some rare company for their 20 & 20 and Triple Doubles game

Evan Miya player ratings

!alt text ↗

@BeddieKU23 The alley oop pass from past half court to KJ should be on the highlight reel of the season. I don't watch much sportscenter anymore but would have been disappointed had it not been featured.

@BShark What is the rank? All of the ncaa div 1? B12?

@wissox said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

@BShark What is the rank? All of the ncaa div 1? B12?

Rank on the left is big 12 I believe.

BPR paints a good picture of our rotation. People (not you) should not be quick to give up on Elmarko, he will be good.

@BShark LOL I don’t know these guys well enough to give up yet!

I'm guessing our message board will be cut in half for the Charminade game since it plays opposite of the Chiefs/Eagles Monday Night Football game. This Kentucky game thread was the best that I recall. Of course it helps that KU won.

@stoptheflop I hate this!

The midnight chats ought to be fun Tuesday and Wednesday nights!

@DanR

They will be Lit!

The field in Maui is special. Looking forward to this tourney and hope we can get 3 wins.

Kev becomes the first Jayhawk in history with back to back Triple Double's. The stat hasn't been recorded forever but still a super cool achievement for the record books

Kenpom- #4 overall- #12 Offense, #6 defense

Torvik- #3 overall- #4 offense, #6 defense

Hunter's PER currently is 42.5, his previous best for a season was 28.8. Historic start for him. Obviously early but wanted to point out just how good he is right now.

Kevin- Same, PER 28.9 currently, previous bests were last year and Soph year at Tech where he was in the 17 range.

Hate to criticize but Timberlake is a clear evaluation miss right now. I hope he turns it around but the eye test and numbers are downright awful right now.

Opposing coach's eyes light up when our bench players hit the floor and they go after them immediately. Not so bad except our bench can't score enough to offset it. Furphy, Nick, Elmarko are still in the you can beat me off the dribble at will stage. Who do you think is the least raw with the most upside?
Elmarko, Johnny and McDowell are our best at getting out on the break. Small sample but clear evidence of.
Scoring in a set offense Elmarko and Johnny and Parker are the best. Small sample but clear evidence of.
Nick is playing hard but air balls are cringey although he hits the defense boards without fear.
I think all of them are not timid mixing it up. Nice.

We need to get Elmarko going, the guy is talented but struggling early, Freshmen challenges. He needs to use his athleticism more and drive to the basket for score or dish

@AsadZ hopefully he learns to protect or value the ball a lil better!

Transfers in - Hunter, Nick, Arterio, Parker. = good scoring dick, no scoring nick, a loose prick, and a bench stick.

Update Post Maui

Kenpom- #5 overall, Offense #26, Defense #3.

Torvik- #4 overall, Offense #17, Defense #5.

Kenpom rank in Self Era- Currently 10th best team. Rating in range of 2012 Title Runner-up & 2022 National Champs.

PER's took a dip. Hunter leads at 35.5, McCullar still strong at 23.4. Timberlake still last at 3.6 for refence. Guard play must improve a lot according to this analytics stat.

@BeddieKU23

Yes sir, BPI has 10 teams in conference among the top 20 or so. It's so early.

@Zabudda

I'm not even sure what you can describe the upcoming Big-12 schedule as anymore. So far the Big-12 has won 83% of their games. The newcomers to the league are a combined 22-2 so far, 9 teams have 1 loss or less. Of course, it's early and some of these teams haven't played anyone but sisters for the blind but it certainly looks like this league could be even more difficult.

It will be interesting to revisit this before conference play starts.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

@Zabudda

I'm not even sure what you can describe the upcoming Big-12 schedule as anymore. So far the Big-12 has won 83% of their games. The newcomers to the league are a combined 22-2 so far, 9 teams have 1 loss or less. Of course, it's early and some of these teams haven't played anyone but sisters for the blind but it certainly looks like this league could be even more difficult.

It will be interesting to revisit this before conference play starts.

Oh it's gonna be a zoo. - -yet of course we knew or should of known it would be like this. This is going to be even a more Dominant League- - BYU has been kind of a surprise, but have done realy well , it's going to be interesting. - -You know Houston is always gonna be good- time to stand up

Didn't realize Hunter was leading the Nation at like 12.6 . Read that the other day

Kenpom hates this team currently. The Eastern Illinois game really hammered them negatively.

10 after beating the #4 team in the country. Guess who's still #4, UCONN on Kenpom.

I understand how Kenpom gets to their numbers but it's certainly not going to make any sense when you look at the results.

Kenpom says we are the 4th best team in our own conference with 3 wins against ranked teams. Let's you know how flawed it can be.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

Kenpom hates this team currently. The Eastern Illinois game really hammered them negatively.

10 after beating the #4 team in the country. Guess who's still #4, UCONN on Kenpom.

I understand how Kenpom gets to their numbers but it's certainly not going to make any sense when you look at the results.

Kenpom says we are the 4th best team in our own conference with 3 wins against ranked teams. Let's you know how flawed it can be.

The EIU game should be bad for us but it was clear to see it was a super low effort game with minimal game planning at all.

KP is absolutely delirious right now with regards to BYU...

The ncaa net rankings has this team at 16! Lol. Hopefully the big 12 gauntlet will help all those computer see what’s really going on by the end of the year. If we were someone like Gonzaga, I’d be worried. But win the big 12 and all will be well for seeding.

Non computerized thingys like us better. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39034187/men-college-basketball-power-rankings-arizona-no-1-top-teams-lose ↗

@benshawks08 Houston, who's beaten nobody of great significance, is #1 in the net because they beat bad teams really well I guess.

Iowa State being #13 in the NET is hilarious

@wissox said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

@benshawks08 Houston, who's beaten nobody of great significance, is #1 in the net because they beat bad teams really well I guess.

That appears to be their philosophy every year. Load up on low to mediocre teams early which gives them a chance to refine their offense/defense and create confidence. Seems to have worked pretty well for them. This year, the Big 12 will be a lot tougher route. We shall see.

These net ranking are a Joke, we are tied for the most Quad 1 wins but 16th.

@kjayhawks It's kind of early so however their metrics work, it leads to some oddities. Princeton #8 for example. But they're undefeated and 1-0 in quad 1 games (they beat Rutgers). Doubtful they're anywhere close. They're 51 in KenPom. Quite a difference.

@wissox I think RPI favors SOS too much and this net favors win margin too much

I really only know what I see from watching KU and we have seen how unconscious teams can be against us like UK in the first half against us bombs away and UConn's Alfred E. Newton hitting wtf shots adnaseum after being 7/27 (25%) before our game. I think we won both of those. Marquette again reminded us that we get the very best efforts against us every freaking game. Other teams think the Jayhawks are impossibly good while we bitch about Timberlake missing shots. We follow the other top teams and watch their stats and think they are better than they are and wonder how they lost to the Beantown Farts or whomever. It's just fun to look at the numbers this time of the season.

@Zabudda Who lost t0 the beantown farts?

@wissox The Pinto Beans. An inter-legume war.

@wissox

Well thew Farts and the Lady Farts both lost to The Febreze Lilacs.

@mayjay

Don't tempt me mayjay. We could take this clear down to school songs. My wife just asked me what are you smiling at?

@Zabudda Uncle! Uncle!

Kenpom-

Win on the road against 17k fans in Assembly Hall. Yeah, your moving down the list some more. Sounds about right for winning.

Torvik-

Win on the road against 17k fans in Assembly Hall. Yeah, your moving WAY down the list. Sounds about right for winning.

@BeddieKU23 all rating systems hate this team. If we actually destroy Yale, it will mean more.

Hard to do when we play down to the competition. It also makes it hard to gauge where we truly are. Those metrics show what KU is doing in comparison to other teams. I wish they would factor in effort with the metrics. Yes, I know it is unrealistic. Either that or just have the team play to the best of its ability every game. I am quite confident KU does not do that.

Uconn lost by 15 to the #67 ranked team and moved up a spot to #4.

KU moved down 2 more spots to #14.

Comical stuff going on

KU moved down 3 more spots to #16 on Kenpom for winning. You cannot make this up

Gonna be awesome when we win the natty and finish at like 61

@BeddieKU23 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

KU moved down 3 more spots to #16 on Kenpom for winning. You cannot make this up

Remember Squeaky's Law: Winning is the least important thing.

@BeddieKU23 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

KU moved down 3 more spots to #16 on Kenpom for winning. You cannot make this up

I dunno I agree with you but I heard/read somewhere the reason we are moving down is because we are not blowing these teams like Yale and other middle tier schools out. Our turnovre/steal ratio is down in the middle 100's compared to last years top 15, just some crazy excuses why they are moving us down.---It's ok we will just still keep winning, screw their stats

We win a bowl game for goodness sakes and didn't move up in the Kenpom rankings. Outrageous

@wissox said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

We win a bowl game for goodness sakes and didn't move up in the Kenpom rankings. Outrageous

All those penalties created lots of FTs. Kenpom punishes us for giving up FT attempts even though UNLV didn't make one.

Update before Conference Play

Kenpom:

13th- Offense #37, Defense #4.

Torvik:

17th- Offense #53, Defense #9.

PER's:

Hunter and Kev are elite (29 & 25).

Other stats:

Harris is closing in on 10th place all time for assists. He is currently 7 away from tying Sherron Collins who has 552. At his current rate of just under 7 dimes a game, Harris could end the season #3 on the all-time list with 1 more year to go to try and break Aaron Miles record of 954. It's within reach next year which is crazy to think.

Harris already sits at #10 for career steals with 182. With another year he has a chance to finish #2 passing Mario Chalmers.

Hunter Dickinson is poised to break the single season record for rebounds held by Thomas Robinson (350). At his current rate he'd break the record before the conference tournament.

From what has happened so far if we play well we are better than anyone. If an opponent is pulling shots out of their collective anus someone needs to exceed their normal output by being an a**hole for our side too. We can shut most teams down but we seem to have about a 4 minute (around 18 pts) scoring lull in each half which causes the famous "we are up by nine but should be up by twenty" posts. Our loss was when we couldn't handle Marquette's pressure. I can see us being 20 and 1 because of our experienced leaders and then the conference games get very heated.

These rankings is why I still prefer RPI, the knock on that was it put too much on SOS but some of these ratings are both sort of laughable. I like KenPom for sure but still the worst bracket I filled out was using there system.

KU wins another game

Kenpom/Torvik- yep move KU down so more.

Going to be real interesting to see who's right the further we get along. Self or the numbers guys.

@BeddieKU23 which is crazy to think about from the stand point that OU was quad 1 and we won by double digits. Almost to the point where what do we have to do to move up?

@kjayhawks said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

Almost to the point where what do we have to do to move up?

Maybe if we win everything from here on, incl the championship game, we can move backwards into the 100s, through the 200s and 300s, and go all the way past the lowest rating until it starts over at the top 10.

Like going back to zero when playing the card game Hearts.

Positive Movement on Kenpom after whoopin OSU.

Coming in #17 overall- 21.07 rating, after #14- 22.27 rating

39 offense, # 11 defense- after #31, #10

Hunter is now 34 pts away from 2,000 in his career. Would be 4th all-time in KU history for context.

KenPom on the difference between his rankings and the AP rankings. An interesting read: https://kenpom.substack.com/p/lets-talk-about-memphis ↗

@HoraceZontal So he uses KU as an example of a team that has more top 30 wins proving that Memphis doesn’t belong and then goes on to say that KU is over rated. I have lost what little respect I had for his poll. His ego, however, is amazing.

@dylans ya like I said the worst bracket I filled out was heavily KenPom influenced. I only lie to look at a few things he has like offensive and defensive efficiency. I believe no team outside of the top 25 in both has ever won a title. Also would note KenPom loved the 2010 team was number 1 til the last week of the season. It also had the 2022 team in the teens for much of the season.

Saw an interesting post that now I can't find the link to about where the last 10 NCAA Champs were ranked at this point in the season. I think only 1 was #1 (Nova) and most where hanging in the top 5 or top 10 with the UConn coming out of no where twice. So, sitting at 7 isn't the worst place to be. Though I'd be curious about the kenpom rankings of those champs at the same point in the season.

@benshawks08 I was thinking 2020 we would have been a long term #1, but we didn't enter the #1 spot until the 3rd to last week of the season. A pre Christmas loss and one early in January to Baylor meant a hole to climb out of. I bring it up because we know KU is winning it all that year!

Harris passed 600 assists yesterday.

13 Kenpom, up a few spots after crushing #1.

Bill Self is now 8 wins from Phog Allen

Harris is 7th all time in assists currently. He's got a shot to be 3rd all time by end of season.

Also 7th all time in steals currently

@BeddieKU23 In 4 years, that’s a great showing! I’m not sure what to think about the 5th year stat accumulation that Harris will have after next season. Skews things.

@dylans I would think he would easily be the assists leader if he stayed for next season.

@kjayhawks

Let's see.

Current: 601 assists

Record: 954 (Aaron Miles)

Avg: 6.6 per game

Games left in 2024:
9 regular season games, 1 definite, 3 possible Big-12 Championship games, 1 definite, 6 possible NCAA tournament games.

11 games officially left at 6.6 pg = 6.6 = 72.6
18 games max left at 6.6 pg = 118.8

After 2023-24 season- 673 to 719 range

2024-25 season: 673 + 33 games (min) @ 6.6 per game (2023-24 current avg) = 673 + 217 = 890.

Obviously, a fluid situation with how many tournament games KU plays the next two seasons. That's anywhere from 4 to 18 games. Somewhere around 8.5 per game would get him near the record next season.

@dylans

How do we even handle transfers on the All-Time Scoring List now. It's been a question I have with the changing landscape. Guys that stay 4/5 years are literally going to be dinosaurs now.

Hunter just hit 2,000 pts (2030) for his career for which only 3 players in KU History have achieved. His KU count is only 413 and counting. He'd technically pass Raef Lafrentz (2066) soon & can pass Nick Collison (2097) as well this season.

No idea what they are going to do.

@BeddieKU23 just my 2 cents, but it seems if we’re talking KU stats for KU players, we shouldn’t count the stats attained by transfer players from other schools since those numbers aren’t KU related numbers.

@StLJhawk

I agree actually. Transferring is the new era and there's going to be very few players that start and finish their careers here anymore. Interested to see how its handled in the future.

How many boards does Hunter have?

Currently this is the 2nd lowest rated team in the Self Era per Kenpom. Only the 2020-21 team ended rated lower, they lost in the 2nd round.
For further reference, the team rated the closest to this one (03-04) made the Elite 8. Perhaps an outlier since the next 5 lowest rated teams lost in the 1st or 2nd round. Hopefully this year is another outlier

@BeddieKU23 said in 2023-2024 Statistics:

Currently this is the 2nd lowest rated team in the Self Era per Kenpom. Only the 2020-21 team ended rated lower, they lost in the 2nd round.
For further reference, the team rated the closest to this one (03-04) made the Elite 8. Perhaps an outlier since the next 5 lowest rated teams lost in the 1st or 2nd round. Hopefully this year is another outlier

I'd say the difference is this year's team has proven they can beat elite competition, whereas that team got the doors blown off whenever they played anyone elite with the exception of that one Baylor game where they were coming off covid

@rcjhdraft

Yeah 7 wins against the Top 25 competition. They can compete with just about anyone when right. I just don't have any clue on what that means in the tournament. They have struggled on the 2-day turnarounds. Being healthy physically and mentally is a big thing with this group. No margin for error.

@BeddieKU23 No margin for error is right.

One thing this team has done, that those other teams that flamed out early didn’t do, was string together 6 wins in a row during the season. This team can get cooking, but can easily flame out too. If they make the final four watch out! If they lose early it’s not unexpected either. Very high ceiling and pretty low floor.

Idk I'm not as down on this team as everyone else seems to be. They are kind of built for march with the only thing really missing is a good 6th man. It'd also be nice if we could get a little more scoring from our pg, but Dajuan has come up big for us before so not going to completely count him out. We go into the tourney completely healthy and I would pick KU as a good bet to get to the F4. And if timbies can tighten up his play a bit, a championship run is on the table.

If we can get our guys healthy, then I could like our chances to at least make it out of the first weekend.

@BShark that second game of the first weekend game will have me nervous no matter what.

ya, if we are healthy might get through 1st weekend ---Actually I see us at our tope shot - - maybe Sweet Sixteen think that's the limit if the ball rolls right.

I agree with all of you. Second game of the first weekend will make me nervous, but I expect we'll get through that. If we win the third game, we are playing with house money.

How cliché, 3 former Hawks Tyon-Grant Foster, Isaac McBride and Tristan Enaruna all finished tied for 36th nationally in scoring at 19.8ppg.

I think this point should be debated where talented players recruited and enrolled at KU for some reason or other struggle here and become better players and perform after transfer.

Is KU standard so high that they cannot adjust?

Is HCBS too demanding?

As there too much pressure here?

Thoughts?

@AsadZ They were nowhere near the best players at KU when they left (McBride, backed out). They were the best players on their new teams (TGF, eventually). The best players on teams tend to have higher scoring averages if the coach figures out how to blend them in. Not predictive of how they would have done here.

No more predictive of high scoring average than, say, putting Timberlake or Joe Y on KU.

I am not saying that these were best players at KU but they were certainly talented enough to be recruited by KU coaches, Grimes was MacD American if I recall correctly. Tristan was highly touted.

@AsadZ coaching is part if the problem, Self says we have a team full of 4/5 star guys, need to not only play defense but improve to get on the court. Some of the smaller schools they have no one else so the coach just gives them the ball and says go do what you can. Another part of it is the competition isn’t close to what it is in the B12. Tristan was also at ISU and didn’t do much (good kid, still snap with him at times).

They didn’t become what you see today until they were upper class men. Something they didn’t achieve at KU, because of the transfer. Maybe the transfer allowed them to grow - I don’t always like being the first employer of a young person as they have no comparable experience to draw upon. ie is this normal? Maybe not having the free out after the first transfer makes them buckle down. Or maybe it’s simply just getting more seasoned with age. And in several cases it was just a bad system fit.

At least that’s my guess.

@dylans 21+year old is quite different than an 18-19 year old in many ways. I understand that Bobby Knight while at Indiana worked with a sports psychologist to develop a test that was then given to a kid before Knight would recruit him. This helped determine whether or not the kid would be able to function under him. Probably wasn't fool proof but it probably saved some problems over the years.