Yeah, part 2 was getting a bit scrolly. Good call @JayHawkFanToo
Active 2017 targets
COMMITED: Dedric and KJ Lawson. Sit 1 year transfer combo forwards!
No idea: Jeremiah Tilmon
KU has "expressed interest": Jermaine Cousinard
Nope: Trevon Duval, MJ Walker, Mark Smith, Shakur Juiston
*Seems like Smith's recruitment is rapidly accelerating and Michigan State is the perceived leader.
Your thread and you and @BeddieKU23 and a couple of other posters seem to have the most information and the rest of us, less informed posters, just soak it in.
Active 2017 targets
Likely to commit to KU/KU perceived leader: Thomas Allen
Very good chance: Shakur Juiston
KU has "expressed interest": Kerem Kanter, Blake Harris, Marcus Evans, Jermaine Cousinard, Mark Smith*
Castin out lines: Jeremiah Tilmon
*Seems like Smith's recruitment is rapidly accelerating and Michigan State is the perceived leader.
Edited into OP, which will be updated.
@BShark I just wished we would get some locked down and 100% committed and signed 1st day of signing is on Wedns - -Got a feeling we will get those two - hopefully 3 I really would love for us to be able to get a big natural 5 to go along with Juiston and then get the Allen kid. - -ROCK CGALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I was reading on the Illini SB nation site and a lot of them (fans) were fed up with Tilmon, which is interesting since he's still in HS and they're starved for good players in Champaign. It seems just on Monday this week he tweeted that he was honoring his commitment and then two days later says he's reopening his recruitment. Some were speculating Cuonzo with his Illinois ties could get him to come over there.
Why would a recruit rather play at Kentucky instead of KU? I get the whole Eastern Time zone thing I guess, but it's not like they get slobbered over like Duke and North Carolina and so many other ACC and Big East teams do. (Kentucky slobbers all over itself, but that doesn't count.)
Just can't figure out the big advantage there. Looking at all our sloppy seconds recruiting efforts thinking, BIKU! Seriously, aside from being in the middle of nowhere, what's not to like when compared to Kentucky?
Kentucky has World Wide Wes. I think I there's a 30 for 30 coming on that topic.
Looking like Allen will visit Lawrence soon.
@chriz I guess if I was a recruit (I'll wait til everyone stops laughing!) i might see Kentucky as a pretty good option. I mean it's a blue blood, it receives a great amount of attention, wins a lot, regularly plays in the FF. I'm not sure it receives that much less attention than Duke and UNC.
Marcus Evans is down to Arizona, VCU and Miami according to ESPN.
Mark Smith received a Kentucky offer today.
Such an odd situation. Tilmon's recruitment has been one with a lot of twists. In the fall after committing to Illinois there was rampant rumors he'd switch to St Louis (right before signing day) as Travis Ford was trying to scoop up all available talent from the Louie area. He ended up staying with Illinois because the assistant coach who was instrumental in getting him was still on the Illinois staff.
Fast forward a few months and Groce was fired. Assistants free to go. Tilmon says he's not going anywhere despite what's happened. Martin becomes the coach of Missouri, Michael Porter commits to Missouri after his dad is conveniently signed on as a coach. Martin has a sister that is an assistant principal at the school Tilmon attends. Martin visits his sisters school "conveniently" for what reason? Maybe because a HS recruit goes there. Basically legal tampering... Michael Porter starts recruiting Tilmon to come to Missouri. MP played AAU ball with Tilmon FR, Soph year.
All this for a player that has not progressed since earlier in his HS career. Last spring he suffered a Shoulder Injury on National TV that sidelined him from AAU ball. This year he was not a dominate post player. Whatever school gets him is getting a solid post talent but not a game-changer or immediate starter unless he goes to Missouri.
Some really good stuff on Juiston over on the phog. I can share if people want to see..
@BeddieKU23 Good info. I don't follow recruiting so that info is instructive. Don't think we want this kid.
Edited it into the first post and removed Marcus Evans since he is no longer considering KU.
@BeddieKU23 please share
Not news in terms of "he's coming to KU" although that is something I hope happens soon. But people that have watched him play all year have some nice praise.
Good summary, and I'll add: can lead a fast break (really fast in the open court and handles very well), can get points by driving to the basket (help defense HAS to rotate over or it's going to be a monster dunk; his first step is lightning fast, and he can crossover his defender with ease), and he makes several passes per game that you say "wow" because of his vision and touch, whether it's an outlet pass or a high-low pass where he zips it through a tiny window. I saw him in 9 or 10 games, and I don't believe I saw him hit a jump shot beyond 10 feet -- not that he took more than a few. Coach Eck pretty clearly had told him to drive it every time he had an opening.
Not to be pollyannish in projecting him at the next level -- he would struggle at first with some of the man-to-man concepts that Self wants (when to show, when to help, when to switch, and especially boxing out), and the scouting report on his offense is going to be "force him to take an outside shot." (Regarding the latter, if you give him any space at all, his counter is to blow by you on the way to the rim.) I think he's clearly better than Coleby and Lightfoot, and he could be an interesting complement to Preston (that would be a REALLY fast and good ballhandling lineup).
A-game Carlton Bragg is better, but median Carlton Bragg is not.
Finally, Shakur is a very, very competitive guy, channeled through a Frank Mason stoicism most of the time. He gives good effort every single game, and you know that there is a base set of skills that you are getting every time out, especially elite rebounding. He is someone that Coach Self could put into a game and know exactly what he getting from him (with a few bonuses from good passing, steals, etc.). He is a tough guy who likes contact and is a Bill Self kind of player.
Poster asked:
Is shakur juiston a legit 6'7 or did Hutchinson add an inch or two to his height?
Answer:
I stood near Shakur during the net cutting after the championship, and I think he's a legit 6'7" in shoes. He IS a little short to play PF at the KU level, but he is taller than Traylor, with broader shoulders, and he's a quick and powerful jumper who grabs the majority of his rebounds above the rim, so he plays bigger than his height. He likes to bang in the post and plays a physical game. Anybody can feel free to chime in, but I'm going to guesstimate Shakur's weight at 230
Poster:
I think there are a couple of posters who are really really promoting this kid. Why weren't we after him since day 1 instead of now after we missed on other targets if he is this super great impact player chimchim and hhhawk are making him out to be?
Answer:
I'm not a scout. Juiston wasn't even starting for Hutch last season, and he is now being talked about as their all-time player, so I think it's fair to say that he "blew up" as a sophomore, as unlikely as that trajectory may seem. Kudos to Iowa State for seeing the potential last year. I've talked with some long, long-time Hutch Juco fans who go back to the '60s that say he is the best they have ever had, which includes Kadeem Allen (2nd-team All-Pac 12 this year) and former KU player and McD's AA Ben Davis. He dominated the national tournament, which is full of guys that are going to play D-1. (Typically at that level, each team will 5 or more future D-1 players, albeit often at the Murray States of the world.) I would actually be a little cautious in reading into that that he will start from day one at KU. He can't shoot from outside about 8 feet and Juco defense is not high D-1 defense. He is going to look lost at times, until he is grabbing rebounds above the rim or leading a fast break and not having to think about everything.
I would however feel confident in saying that if you give him 27 min/g, he is going to get 8 rebounds next year at D-1, plus he will have several "wow" plays per game where you think, man, if this kid could only shoot. And I feel confident in saying that he is flat-out better than Coleby and Lightfoot, and it's not even close. He's probably not better than the Stanford grad transfer, if that's an option. I think conservative expectations for him next year would be: 1st big off the bench, 22 min/g, 5 pts/g, 6 reb/g, 2 assists/g, 1.3 steals+blocks. Not an impact player, necessarily, but reliable and has a plus-plus skill in rebounding that earns him minutes. Starts as a senior, maybe 12 & 9, and that may be lowballing his rebounding. Not a future NBA player, but he'll make money playing somewhere.
I did see Mario Little play at nationals; Shakur is hands-down better, and you can see it in 5 seconds.
Another Poster/Answer: This poster is the play by play announcer for Hutch
Shakur is, I believe, a legit 6-7. He is an amazing rebounder who plays above the rim. For his size he handles the ball very well in the open floor and in traffic. He has great court vision and loves to get his teammates involved offensively so he has a high assist total for a big man.
Additionally, he was the team leader. His teammates think very highly of him.
He is humble and a thoroughly nice young adult. At the recognition evening for HCC's National Championship, Shakur was at the microphone for nearly ten minutes in front of 1000 fans so he will represent his school positively.
Any word on the Lawson brothers?
From what I read on the Shiver, it may be worth any baggage they bring. Some stud recruits coming down the line in that family. 2 brothers and 2 cousins or something crazy like that. And all 5* recruits...
So, give me the REAL poop. - - - What is your Bottom line on Shakur Juiston? - -Do you think we actually have a legit shot at him?
I think it's about 50/50. - -He has scheduled his visit with Iowa state, and they are the other competition that I see for him. - - The only thing is - - that made it kind of sound - -NOT SO GOOD for us was, that he was really impressed that Coach Prom had been the one recruiting him - - His Coach said that Shakur had really taken notice of that, and they have been recruiting him hard for quite some time - - I dunno, whatcha think? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yes KU has a shot. It's KU or ISU based on everything I've read.
Blake Harris ended up at Mizzou. I take back anything nice I said about the kid for that decision
Duke insiders have started to mention Duke with Devon Dotson. They think he's moved up their board.. It's still likely that Duke is going to land Tre Jones (Tyus lil brother) and Garland so it may be nothing more then talk, but the recent talk of Dotson on their board is gaining more traction. If Duke enters the picture, hard to imagine we have any chance after that.
They also feel confident with Grimes even though mostly everything out there is KU has a good chance there. Not sure whether these guys are just sunshine pumping or what.
@BeddieKU23 said:
Blake Harris ended up at Mizzou. I take back anything nice I said about the kid for that decision
Ha.
When I first read about this when it came across twitter I was thinking really you can't do better than this? I'm not sure why anyone thinks Martin will win much of anything at MU. We are talking about a coach that went 23-11 with Jaylen Brown, Ivan Rabb, JR Jabari Bird plus a couple other experienced guards.
@BeddieKU23 how many guys are going w/porter and Harris?
Could be at least a few more. Looks like they have 2 more spots open at the moment.
Tilmon seems likely as long as Illinois doesn't try and prohibit him from going there. That could happen with all the talk of Martin visiting his school and recruiting him while he's still signed to Missouri.
Knox seems like a longshot, more likely Duke or UNC.
Same story at all his stops so far. Good crootin, bad basketball.
Updated OP removing Harris and moved Mark Smith to "Nope". He visited MSU recently and reportedly loved it, plus they really need him. Only actually removing players once they commit though.
@BShark @BeddieKU23 Knowing you have DG back, do you test the waters with... Waters? Isn't he likely not to qualify academically his first year?
Waters has academic issues? That is the first I've seen of that.
Some rumors out there were that his dad was an issue (helicopter type). I think the majority that has been reported on Waters is KU is not recruiting him even though he visited in the fall. Waters probably wants a situation where he can start given his ranking which is unlikely at KU.
Has the staff even reached out to another 2017 point guard this spring? It seems like the 5 that are left for Duval are not upsetting him in any way by recruiting other point guards. Maybe there's some behind the scenes contact with some potential targets but it does seem like nobody wants to lose out on landing Duval by recruiting others.
I honestly think KU will try and get a graduate transfer point guard (after the Duval announcement) that's looking to win in his last year. We have potentially 4-5 guard/wings but no backup to Devonte. All the current options have a lot of question marks. Someone who could provide a steady 6-10 minutes a game would really help this team out. Another benefit to getting a graduate transfer guard is he doesn't hurt 2018 recruiting for elite level guards. The Italy trip would also benefit said transfer as they integrate into the team.
Kevin Knox visited Columbia and MU is going strong after Tilmon. If both sign with MU, it's class will challenge U.K. The entire saga at MU stinks to high heaven; something really fishy going on. I bet even Calipari is wondering what is going on in Columbia.
This whole Billy Preston thing has me concerned. A lot riding on him being in the mix. I've heard nothing positive on eligibility since the rumbles the other way.
Five high schools in four years.
On the other hand, we have not heard anything negative either. Is this a case where no news is good news?
Yup.
What do we take of Self's comments here.
Bragg’s departure opens up another scholarship and Self recently told the Journal-World he would like to add “a quick-twitch 4 man” to back up incoming freshman Billy Preston.
Sounds like he's confident Preston will be here playing and starting..
@BeddieKU23 I love the grad transfer route to fill holes, personally. Because, like you said, you get an experienced player that doesn't mess with the next years recruiting class.
@BeddieKU23 @JayHawkFanToo -- You both have lessened my concern a bit. But you know, until we get word that he's been cleared by the omnipresent "Clearinghouse", it's just there.
That said, a "quck twitch 4 man" -- Traylor-like? Athletic? Not a sloth or lumbering guy?
Don't we have that in Lightfoot (I thought)?
@HighEliteMajor said:
That said, a “quck twitch 4 man” – Traylor-like? Athletic? Not a sloth or lumbering guy?
Wouldn't Kevin Young be described as quick twitch? Lightfoot still seems to be learning where and when to twitch, but I think he will eventually (next year maybe, jr year for sure) really be entertaining.
@HighEliteMajor I would have been worried if he committed in the Spring. But we have had 4 months to look at his transcripts and sort them out. I would bet that he is taking online classes right now to make up any core classes he is missing. And then he can finish up whatever else he is missing this summer.
Diallo waited until the Spring to sign. That created a huge mess because we didn't get his transcripts until May or June. Not enough time to 100% get him cleared. I mean $100k later I guess it worked out... But to me this means Preston has had plenty of time to get eligible.
Here are the core required classes to be eligible:
- English: 4 Years
- Math: 3 years of Algebra 1 or higher
- Science: 2 years of science classes
- Social Studies: 2 years
- Additional: four courses of either Math, English or science class. And 8 courses of either English Math, Science, social studies, foreign language, comparative religion or philosophy.
We KNOW he will get at least 1 year of English, Math, Science and Social Studies at Oak Hill. He probably will have gotten another year of all of those somewhere along the line at his former high schools.
So, if he has 2 years of English, 2 years of Math, 2 years of science, 2 years of social studies than he is at the most, missing this:
If he got to Oak Hill and they knew he had eligibility issues, they would have enrolled him in the easiest credit earning classes that also count. So he would be taking 7 courses that he needed to count just at Oak Hill. In theory, he would also be enrolled in an accredited online school, taking an extra 2 classes.
If this is what they did and he was serious about being eligible he should only have 1 year of Math, and 5 or 6 other courses left to take. It would be possible for him to pass all of those classes. But tough. If he had ANY other classes at any of his previous schools count, he could very easily qualify with a few classes this summer.
Honestly I'm just as concerned as you about Preston. But I did find Self's comments interesting in response, almost makes it sound as if he knows something the public doesn't about his eligibility.
We will probably know around the time practices start up for the Italy trip whether he's good to go or not . I don't believe he'd be able to play on that trip if there is a hold up. The wait continues whether our concerns are overblown or not.
The "quick twitch 4 man" sounded like he was indirectly saying Shakur Juiston. He's a quick twitch 4 man that Self is after..
Talk about small ball...
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria
Kansas would like to play Trevon Duval w/ Devonte Graham and Malik Newman & have multiple ball-handlers, per source.
@BeddieKU23 said:
Honestly I'm just as concerned as you about Preston. But I did find Self's comments interesting in response, almost makes it sound as if he knows something the public doesn't about his eligibility.
We will probably know around the time practices start up for the Italy trip whether he's good to go or not . I don't believe he'd be able to play on that trip if there is a hold up. The wait continues whether our concerns are overblown or not.
The "quick twitch 4 man" sounded like he was indirectly saying Shakur Juiston. He's a quick twitch 4 man that Self is after..
If Missouri can get Ricky Clemons eligible, and KU can get Cheick eligible, I'm not overly concerned about Preston. It might take some summer school, but it should be very doable.
Definitely referring to Juiston.
@BeddieKU23 said:
Did Clemons by chance go to schools that no longer exist? That's my biggest concern is the NCAA just throws out anything to do with Prime Prep/API and his associated classes from there.
He made up like 24 credits over ONE summer. I mean he didn't REALLY but yeah.
Really good points regarding the timing of Preston's signing to Diallo's, In the end with Diallo they witch-hunted his grades and fell back to benefits from his handler.. I don't think Preston will have anything similar in regards to that. He's either going to qualify fully or be in a Traylor/McLemore situation as a partial. Which would force a red-shirt or force him to hunt an oversea's contract.
Matt Scott is extremely and incredibly excited right now.
It's the Lawsons coming to KU. BOOM!
@BShark Former Memphis standouts Dedric and K.J. Lawson are transferring to Kansas, their father told @CBSSports. Story coming.
per twitter Gary Parrish
There goes 2 scholarships. If Svi stays we have only 1 scholarship left.
so they will have to sit a year correct?
Hopefully continuing the tradition of success of the Morris twins and Tarik Black.
Yes that is correct
I assume that means we are the team to beat for Chandler Lawson in 2019?
Also they have family members in the pipeline that are studs, legit NBA prospects.
We might sign the whole family. Dad, Mom, Grandparents.
@BeddieKU23 lol
Yes sir. And this STUD is their cousin: http://247sports.com/Player/DJ-Jeffries-84187 ↗
Well hot damn!
Dedric is a Double Double machine. The brother will be a red-shirt Soph. Most likely we'll have them one season
Dedric just one year for sure (honestly thought he would just go pro) but I could see his brother graduating. Depends on how it goes I suppose.
This is a fantastic move imo. Really takes pressure off getting post players in 2018.
Which makes this decision all the more crazy. Dedric is good enough for the NBA now, although I'm sure he was not happy about how his combine went last year. I think Hudy will maximize both of them, I can see where both of these guys will really benefit from her strength and conditioning program
We still need Bigs for next season though.
Gary Parrish likes it
Ranking and Stats from their 2 years at Memphis. Obvious improvements can be made shooting the ball for both, particular from 3 land. Both are very good rebounders. Dedric is tailor made to play the 4 here.
Dedric Lawson was ranked #35,
!upload-0d45eea6-e2ae-4228-b923-960bee15a38b ↗
KJ Lawson was ranked #53.
We have one open spot for one!
Staff looking at Juiston and Kanter still.
@BeddieKU23 said:
We have one open spot for one!
This is interesting. I think Svi is probably gone. Staff def wants another guard too, and I think it will be Allen (they want Duval too but lol). Really need two scholarships for it to work how they want, and there is no point is putting Coleby out to pasture since he will likely be a part of next year's post rotation.
Interesting, I think Svi stays and we use the last scholarship on a big. Can't have just 4 healthy bigs for next season. Allen might fill a long-term need but there really isn't a situation where he plays minutes next year, but a 5th big would definitely have a chance at beating someone out.
Mitch maaaaaybe? I don't know though.
I think if there is just one scholarship then it does go to a big, Juiston or Kanter probably.
Agree I think Juiston would be a good fit. If only he had a jump shot, he'd be unreal.
Wasn't sure where to post this:
What happened to the KC Star writing a piece in JJ and the title 9 investigations every other day ?
Looks like it. Preston is a guard in a big body. Lightfoot will put on some weight but isn't getting any taller and has said he wants to continue to work on being a stretch 4..Having Doke back is going to help the 4 spot out so much
Love Lucas, but Doke is capable of many things Lucas was not physically.
Just to make sure I'm counting right, as of right now we actually have zero open scholarships. Everybody expects JJ to declare but he hasn't yet. Maybe there is a reason he is waiting but each day that goes by makes me wonder just a little bit more. Could he actually be one of the rare breed that decides to make shockwaves by deciding to return, lol. Kansas would go from title contender to clear favorite to win it all.
Most thought the odds of Svi staying were greater than 50%, and nobody else seems like a prime transfer candidate. Unless someone has the ability to pay their own way, we currently have zero open at this minute with very high odds of one opening up after a JJ announcement.
Yes you are correct, TECHNICALLY zero, but Josh is gone.
@approxinfinity Is he a brother to them or what? - - -ROCK CAHLK ALL DAY LONG BABY
My personal belief.
Also with the success KU had with Tarik Black and Lagerald Vick, and now possibly these kids as well KU is cleaning up in Memphis. There is a top 50-ish SG in Memphis in the 18 class in TJ Moss. Will be interesting to see if KU gets involved there.
@jayballer54 said:
@BShark JUMPIN - - -DOUBLE - - -GEE - - - HOSSA - -FATS. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yes sir.
@BeddieKU23 lol, THAT'S CRAZY LOL
They do not necessarily have to have scholarships, they can go on sort of financial aid package, right? I am sure KU can be very creative and shift scholarships around including placing the walk-on players on financial aid packages...money is definitely not a problem since the program has a large surplus.
Is Director of Basketball Operations open for their dad? :grinning:
No. Wouldn't surprise me if he took a red shirt year at some point though.
If I was putting money on it, the next dominoes are JJ anouncing, Juice announcing and then either that fills out the roster or Coleby transferring if that happens. Followed by a Duval to Duke announcement and an Allen to KU.
But all of that depends on what Svi decides as well. I just don't see him leaving... But maybe between Cunfliffe and Vick he is worried that his minutes will be limited.
Could see one of the Lawson brothers being self-pay as well. Their dad has made around $600k in the past 3 years. And it would be a small investment if it means his kids develop into NBA players...
Not the kind of player that gets forced out. Great kid to have in the program so if he leaves it's likely his decision but I don't think he would. Who here was close with his family, @globaljaybird I think?
Svi had a solid junior year and I am expecting him to have an even better senior year. Senior Svi is likely better than any freshman KU can get.
@RockkChalkk no he hasnt. People are just assuming things. We won't know for sure until he announces.
@RockkChalkk how tall is Kanter?
@HawkChamp 6'10'' True center.
@HawkChamp I saw one site, ESPN I think, that said 6'-10"
I like Svi, but someone out of Svi/Vick/Cunliffe is going to be very unhappy if Svi stays. We will see how it works out.
I tend to agree but I wasn't super high on Cunliffe to begin with.
Can you imagine the speed of a Golden State like small team with Graham, Newman, Duval, Vick and Svi with Cunlife and Garrett coming off the bench? And then throw a team with Doke and Preston just to mess with the other team?
Looks like KU is in good shape not only y for the upcoming season but for the next 2 or 3 years as well. KU went from a question mark to having more players than it knows what to do with...a good problem to have. :smile:
I was pretty worried about KU having to rely on the 2018 class for 2+ post players. Fears alleviated!
Now just flip Carty and we goood.
@BShark Idk. I think there are minutes to be had for all. I kind of expect all 3 to manage 25-30 mpg depending on who is playing better.
When HCBS has had depth he has used it. DG might not make it to 35 mpg. Sherron only played 33 and so did Tyshawn. So I expect his minutes to come down from 35 when we had no depth to more like 33.
Hopefully Newman can pick up the slack since he will likely be playing PG if he wants to go to the NBA, Garret played PG in HS and in a pinch, he can probably play some PG as well.
I think you can live with Newman and Garrett out there at once when Graham is out. Don't think you can get away with say Newman/Svi/Cunliffe or sub Vick for Svi or Cunliffe in there. Esp against pressure teams. Self is no dummy of course he will figure out the best rotations.
Fortunately now he has several players to pick from depending on whether he wants to go big, small, fast or a combination. Heck, he now has enough players to press like West Virginia. Wouldn't it be a hoot if he unleashes a full court press on West Virginia the entire game? Huggy's pacer would go on overdrive.
@BeddieKU23 I think Garrett will run the show when Graham isn't in the game. If you think Graham could get 4 minutes a game sitting just before TV timeouts that already knocks him down to 36 mpg. He played 35 last season and Frank 36. And then I think this team will really blow the doors off some teams early in the year. We have depth that we didn't this last season. That should bring his average down to 33.
I think Doke will play 25 mpg on the high end. For two reasons. No matter how in shape he is, he can't change that he will be 265lbs to move up and down the court. And, he will just be too foul prone. He is too big. Lucas could only average 25 mpg and he was much less aggressive defensively and offensively than Doke will be.
When conference play starts, I don't expect Garrett to see but 4 minutes a game. So my point really is that it isn't like Cunliffe, Vick and Svi won't have minutes. They are there to be had.
The only thing that changes that is adding another big. Which we desperately need. I am just wondering who would be more valuable at this point. Juiston or Kanter. We need a good backup to Doke more than we need another 4.
There can be reasons why Josh hasn't declared yet. He is in a different situation than say Landen. I'm guessing here... but good chances we hear of his finalized declaration to leave when he signs an agent.
Josh has been very forthright in declaring his intentions, even before signing with Kansas.
Of course, I would love it if he stays and we would easily earn a top preseason ranking next year. But I find it extremely unlikely for him to stay and I actually advise him to go. I'm usually one of the last persons in here to advise a player to go early. Josh is so much further along with his game than Andrew was in his one year in Lawrence.
@BShark OK. So with the Lawson's transferring in , yes I realize they sit for the year BUT how does their chosing us, effect Juiston? - - Iowa State fans are all stoked now thinking that since they are coming that it will seal the deal for them and Juiston . So what YOU think?
Also I'm totally lost now - - exactly how many open spots do we have left now? - -Someone else said seeing as how Lawson's have to sit next year they don't count against the scholi level. - -I don't think that's right - -I think they still count right? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
One open slot if Josh goes and Svi stays.
I have to think this does help ISU with Juiston. Juiston wants to play and while he would next season the season after that would be very much in doubt for him.
@JayHawkFanToo BOY, isn't that the truth. - You know seems like every year , well at least the last few anyways, we as fans well some of us anyways get to be the worry wert's , well I'm speaking for myself anyways - -the old ye of little faith lol - -seems like we get in a scramble mode fret to death -- And then BAM as always it seems Coach and his buddies seek guys out - -and we do JUST FINE. - -With Devonte announcing yesterday his return & then now today this, Man we are SOLID, not only this year but the next - If we could land Jusiton then I think it's BALL GAME we good to go. - - Our Bench shaping up, we have some really good depth in the back court Vick CAN play there, - - Newman - -Graham - - Garrett - & SVI I like that.- - If we could get Juiston to help Doke OH YA - - JUMPIN - -GEE - -HOSSA - - FATS LOL. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@Kcmatt7 Well let me hear you guy. I agree for sure wit you ONE more Big and I think we REALLY be good. So in your opinion , Who do you think would be more of a benefit to us? - -Juiston OR Kanter? I know or have heard lots on Shakur - -little to nothing on Kanter. - -Iowa State fans are feeling with the Lawson's coming to KU that it seals Juiston committing to Iowa State - yes - -no- - maybe? -- Who would be your choice?
I really like Juiston , , but again haven't really heard to much on Kanter - -Do we have a legit shot at him? - - - Also is Kanter a transfer? - -if so where from? - -or is he a Grad transfer? - or High School? - -Thanks - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@drgnslayr I agree. I know that we all know , Josh isn't coming back. - -Just for chit chat though idle conversation , couldn't you imagine IF Josh DID announce that he was coming back for his Soph year. - Could you imagine the shock wave that this would send around the College Basketball scene? lol -- Just imagine old Calipari and Rat face at Duke wettin all over themselves lmao. - I have said a couple of times - -I'm think he will probably mention about declaring at the Banquet tomorrow night. - -Could be we hear about SVI tomorrow night also. - -ROCK CHALK ALL ADY LONG BABY
Kanter is a graduate transfer who averaged 11 points and 6 rebounds in 19 minutes per game at Wisconsin Green Bay. If 19 mpg is all he could get at WGB then I am not sure how good he would be at KU; I think I would prefer Juiston.
@BShark Ya that's what I'm afraid of. - -Really would like to Land Juiston - -but with this taking place , and him Visiting Iowa St this weekend they gonna play this Card REALLY HARD this weekend - try to get him to commit while there and chances are good he just might # 1 Juco pretty tough player - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@JayHawkFanToo OK. ya now that you gave where he was from , I remember reading about him - -& I'm with you I think I would rather have Juiston BUT I think with the guys today - -I think prettywell eliminates us for him. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer54 I haven't been high on Juiston at all. I'm not a fan of 6'7 post players with no outside game. And especially one playing at the JUCO level before he would be coming here. So I would prefer Kanter. But that is just my opinion...
I also kind of think Juiston clogs the 4 position when we have players like Bagley or Zion out there. Not saying landing them is likely, but Bagley is the type of player you keep a spot open for just in case.
Looks like Ashton-Langford will end up at Providence.
McKinley Wright has decommitted from Dayton.
Ashton-Langford to Providence.
Thanks for your post. It gave me a minute to pause and explore the dream with you. Yeah... wouldn't that be amazing! He would become one of the most dominant college players in a long, long time!
I would love to think Garrett would be ready to play minutes as a freshman. If he is apart of the rotation early on that's a great sign that he's earned the coaches trust. I think its a stretch right now projecting that without seeing him in uniform first. The Italy trip should give us some insight about how ready he is now.
Agree about Doke, the goal is to keep him on the floor as much as possible. Everyone knows how much of a force he can be on a given night if he's in the game. The fouls concern me but his ability to protect the rim and alter shots will be such a refreshing addition to what's been missing from this defense. Lucas was a great defender but he was not someone that defenses feared.
We definitely need a big who can play next season unless Lightfoot or Coleby make some big strides this off-season. That's why I prefer bringing in Juiston. He's got one elite skill, rebounding, even at 6'7. He's a great athlete, a much better athlete then Mitch & Dwight. He will provide weak-side rim protection ability which we saw in the Oregon game can completely change the complexion of a game. Lots of highlights on him erasing shots at the rim which is kind of the role Josh Jackson was able to provide. Not only can he rebound well his 2nd best skill is his floor vision. A 4 that can set up Doke inside or swing the ball out for an open shooter. Skills that I don't think Preston, Lightfoot and Coleby are comfortable with. For reference Juiston had a 144 assists this year, 5 less then Devonte Graham had this year.
I do agree that a more skilled backup to Doke might be the best option but it seems like the staff is more worried about the 4 spot. They must think Coleby can have a productive off-season and provide the minutes we will need. Coleby had some good games but we know his limitations if he's not able to become much more explosive with that knee. It's a gamble if he doesn't regain what he once had. So I can see the concern and the view to get someone that can help now with no questions attached. It will be interesting to see how we use the scholarship now that it became valuable with the Lawson brothers sitting out.
Matt Scott is excited again.
I would guessing a storm is a brewin again. Last time it was the Lawsons. He said this is "big" but not 100% yet.
Jemarl Baker to Kentucky. Tough times in Squidville.
No idea. Lots of speculation right now.
I get the feeling its the younger Lawson (Chandler) that Matt put in a CB pick for today. 2 others did yesterday as well.
Chandler is a 2019 kid..
@beddieku23 That's an excellent deduction. I was thinking Duval, silly me.
@BeddieKU23 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
Jeez, Baker is a good shooter. that's a big pick up for them because they didn't have a shooter signed
Yeah Cal has probably had shooting related nightmares lately. Briscoe, Fox etc...
@BeddieKU23 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
I get the feeling its the younger Lawson (Chandler) that Matt put in a CB pick for today. 2 others did yesterday as well.
Chandler is a 2019 kid..
This seems very likely. It's certainly not Duval, who is pretty much a done deal to Duke.
Around the time Matt started the thread, Duke insider said Duval was a done deal to Duke. The same story he's said for months really.
Matt is hard to trust after he knew Trae Young was going to OU for a week and then pumped KU up until the night before to drive traffic to his site. I guess we all have a job to do but it sheds some light on how much you can trust Matt for anything.
Yeah that was extremely unpleasant all around.
Kerem Kanter to Xavier.
@BeddieKU23 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
Matt deleted his own thread about whatever it was that was possibly going to happen. Something is going on
Seems like someone deleted every post/thread he ever made LOL.
Also fwiw, a Memphis person put in a pick for Chandler to KU.
@drgnslayr Other people talking about how Josh's Mom really emphasizing the education, really wants to get his degree. - -AGAIN one more time , I mean we ALL know he is gone, but YET with every passing day and no announcement. - -some were talking about MAYBE THAT is Matt's some big maybe happening again but not 100% yet? Some others have said could be he just didn't want to rain on Franks parade steal his lime light.
AGAIN he has till the 23rd of this month main while it's just tick - - -tick - - -tick - - . THAT would for sure be THE SHOT HEARD AROUND THE WORLD. I mean come on really? - -BUT have you ever heard of the phrase " NEVER SAY NEVER " OMG just thinking about it BAM. - -but no - -no way. I still say he might announce tonight at the banquet. -- I'm really surprised they haven't said more about the banquet. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Checked other sites, a couple of things. - - -First Matt's post is back, Another poster had asked what had happened to his thread - someone said probably something technical , Matt commented - -said ya something messed up, said probably Flarety I know that's not the correct spell sorry, but anyways the thread is back - -55 responses at this point.
The Second thing was reading a question and answer interview with Trevon, Breaking down ALL the schools: - -Arizona , ,Seton Hall , Duke , Baylor , & KU:
As far as KU: - -Question , about what he liked -- He said the Atmosphere, saying at the game their ( KU ) was an 11 . - - Duke was he said was a 10 . - - KU was great , Unbelievable , especially for a big game I went to the KU/Baylor game - -it was big time.
Question: - -Does it mater about Devonte being there? - -Answer: - -No , Cause Frank did it. -- Question:- -What about Malik being there does that help?- - Answer- - I don't really care who is there.- - -I can play with anyone , I've played with everyone , As long as everyone plays the game the right way , I'm not worried about playing with anyone.
Question have you set an announcement date? - - -Answer No. - - - -Hopefully sometime this month. - - -
@jayballer54 the banquet is tonight. Hopefull Svi will announce his return to have some good news after Jackson announces his intentions.
Ben McLemore had a blast and wanted to come back, but money was an issue.
Wiggins loved playing for KU - top 3 picks have to get that money.
Jackson is an alpha beast and has also claimed to have a desire to return. Once again a top 3 pick-he's got to go. Man, I hope I'm wrong!
Wooten is available again..
@dylans Ya I have to agree, I mean I saw all through the year Josh has been a top 3 pick at the worst -he has to go. I mean what could he possibly gain if he didn't? - He would be taking a risk of any kind of freak major injury by returning and risking his NBA career.
Selfish reasons - -hell ya wouldn't it be great?- But I expect probably announce tonight probably svi ALSOright? - -Maybe SVi also. - -ROCK CHALKA
@BeddieKU23 What happened? -refresh my memory position? - He de-commit? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
It's about Jeremiah Tilmon.
Thanks for keeping me in "dream land!"
I think the outside chance of him staying could have to do with his competitive level. He knows if he stayed one more year he would completely dominate college basketball.
It is tough to create that kind of talent separation in the NBA. Even if he becomes dominant, he is just one of several dominant players on that stage.
I know Josh felt bad after that loss. He carried his share of the responsibility for that loss. Maybe he doesn't want to leave college basketball on such a sour note?
It is such a pity if we can't realize a bit more of his potential while in college.
@jayballer54 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
@BShark OK, what am I missing? lol what is it that's about Tilmon?
ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
McLemore has impressed more than any other player for what he has done off the court after leaving. He has done a lot of community work and I understand he is taking classes on line and hoping to get a degree eventually. He has also been back to Lawrence often and has been a great ambassador for the program.
“Obviously experience,” said KU coach Bill Self in an interview with the Journal-World when asked what area Graham’s decision impacted the most. “But not having a primary ball-handler would’ve been the biggest thing we would’ve had to tighten up. And we’re still gonna try to sign another guard. But to have two players who we feel are legitimate, all-conference type guards in there already, in Devonte’ and Malik (Newman), is pretty comforting.”
So who's the guard going to be. Allen doesn't seem like a day one guy. Is KU in on another top guard not named Duval?
Not KU but with Jarrett Allen staying in the draft for Texas look for Bamba to end up with smart. SMH all around at that one. Really doesn't matter anyway, Bamba is only in College for 1 anyway
No. It will very likely end up being Allen.
@BeddieKU23 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
Wow, that would certainly solidify the back up center spot
Missouri people are getting nervous. This could be fun...
Tremont Waters said that KU has reached out to him as well as UCONN, Creighton and Georgetown
Interesting, very interesting. Last time MS posted he was saying KU still wasn't involved. I'm not sure Waters would get as many minutes as he would hope for next year at KU.
If he is willing to tough it out, fight for minutes and stick around then long term he would be the best guard KU could realistically add at this point.
If he picks KU or UConn then it's to be the PG of the future. Not sure I like that as much as getting Dotson/Grimes in 18, but a bird in the hand and all that.
Good point. We'll see what happens. At least this info came from Tremont. He'd definitely have a role here as a freshman it just wouldn't be one he might be seeking. So much going on for this 1 spot, or 2, or more if the Lawson's don't take up a scholarship for the season.. Getting hard to keep track of everything
I feel fairly confident that Graham and Newman are likely getting about 33mpg. Vick and Cunliffe are going to be around 22-25 minute players. That's a lot of back court minutes taken up. Of course early on Cunliffe's minutes will need to go elsewhere. Definitely need a 6th guard (5th before Cunliffe can play and yes I would have Waters behind Garrett) but is he willing to do that. That's a lot easier I would think for Allen that hasn't been as highly touted to accept.
And yeah the scholarship situation suddenly got a lot more crowded.
Rivals update for the 2017 class. 15 top 150 kids headed to the Big-12 with the possibility of 3-4 more by the look of things.
Preston at #10
Garrett up to #38 (he just keep sneaking higher and higher)
Duval #4
Waters # 37
Tilmon #42
Allen # 99
Other teams
Wigginton #23 (Iowa St)- kid is a stud
Young #15 (OU)- PG
Coleman #43 (Texas)- PG
Sims #56 (Texas)- PF
Ferbes #66 (Texas)- can shoot the ball
Culver #85 (WVU)- PF
Nembhard #88 (TCU)- SG
"Kansas Assistant Coach Jerrance Howard will be in East Saint Louis, IL on Friday to see 2017 C Jeremiah Tilmon. Tilmon, the #29 ranked player in the 247Sports 2017 composite rankings, was released from his Letter of Intent by Illinois on Tuesday. Tilmon is expected to consider Missouri, Illinois and Kansas among others now that he's been released from his LOI."
I would be surprised if Tilmon does not end up at Missouri.
@drgnslayr said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
Thanks for keeping me in "dream land!"
I think the outside chance of him staying could have to do with his competitive level. He knows if he stayed one more year he would completely dominate college basketball.
It is tough to create that kind of talent separation in the NBA. Even if he becomes dominant, he is just one of several dominant players on that stage.
I know Josh felt bad after that loss. He carried his share of the responsibility for that loss. Maybe he doesn't want to leave college basketball on such a sour note?
It is such a pity if we can't realize a bit more of his potential while in college.
Very nice dream! But I would think the only reason for JJ not to declare yet is to give him time to select an agent he will name when he announces. That would keep the pack of wolves from descending on him if he announced without one.
Yeah Wigginton will be a good one for ISU. Surprised to see Allen crack the top 100.
@JayHawkFanToo said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
I would be surprised if Tilmon does not end up at Missouri.
We will see, KU def in it.
That is exactly what I said initially, too...
But @jayballer54 and I are "livin' the dream" right now! My dream has extended to preparing space for new 2018 NC memorabilia at my Jayhawk shrine...
Does Rivals still think Mizzou is in the Big 12?
Tilmon could end up at Mizzou or back to Illini.
Or... it would be great if he came to Kansas!
This looks like a KU/Fizzou fight for Tilmon. We'll see what happens. Howard visits him friday
@BeddieKU23 Has he been on campus yet?
@JayHawkFanToo said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
I would be surprised if Tilmon does not end up at Missouri.
So would I. It would come down to the choice that players often have when considering KU.........come and compete for playing time while playing for a championship team........or go to a place where, because of need, you are almost guaranteed playing time. He likely picked the latter when he picked the Illini. Likely to do the same again. But who knows.
Illinois was more about the assistant coach they had on Groce's staff that he was close with. Once he was let go with the coaching change it made sense Tilmon would look around if he didn't like Underwood's pitch. KU was on his short list first time around so we have to believe he's at least entertaining us again
He committed super early too, when everyone in the world thought Ayton was coming to KU. In that situation he would have never seen the floor at all his first year. Now, he can definitely be the back-up center for this team.
And yeah for anyone wondering about the bad SR year comment it's no joke. He is likely to fall in the final rankings of each of the services. Not sure where he was in Rivals before but 43 seems like a drop.
He did drop in Rivals. Part of it has been injury related. That shoulder injury he had took a long time to heal and usually kids drop anytime there is a injury involved (unless your Harry Giles with Nike of course).
I think the kid hasn't gotten back into the groove but even before he was hurt I didn't think he was as good as his ranking. He has great value defensively right now and needs a good system to develop his offense. KU can offer him a lot, maybe not the 30 minutes a night but maybe a better trajectory for development
Saw that he was a 5 on ESPN and Rivals and was moved down to a 4 to both.
Yep. If he ends up coming to KU and being similar to say, WCS for us, I'd be fine with that.
Gheez....
Imagine the potential for KU to go BIG next year with Tilmon onboard?
Doke as center, Tilmon as power forward, and Preston as our swing forward.
Yikes!
Time for Bill to dream up new schemes!
But seriously... with Preston's handles, he should get some minutes at the 3. That will be his NBA position.
We should have enough minutes available to make a serious run for TIlmon's services.
Maybe in an exhibition. Maybe.
Tilmon reminded me of Deyonta Davis who went pro after 1 year at Michigan St. If Tilmon gets back to what got him so highly ranked then he's got a high ceiling. I know there are some that say his offense is limited but the kid has some nice post moves but wasn't always consistent with them. He runs the floor well, he plays above the rim and has good instincts on defense. Pairing him with Doke and Coleby is not fair for opponents. We can all dream..
That's a nice dream you typed up. Billy guarding the SF spot would be a nightmare. I think he's going to be the new age 4 at the next level, if he matures enough to make it and last.
Tilmon is more of a 5, not sure how he'd work alongside Doke but that's why the coaches get paid the big bucks.
@BeddieKU23 I think if we can get him on campus its a done deal. If only we could have like Ben McLemore there during his visit to show him around.
Cuonzo has that connection with Tilmon because Cuonzo is from East St. Louis too.... We need something to really put him over the top and make that connection. Ben had to spend two years here and I'm sure he could be a major influence on JT.
If anything, this article at least reaffirms where the best home-court advantage is.
Anyways, I personally think Duval is just hoping that Grayson declares for the draft hoping he doesn't have to play with him. I mean I wouldn't want to practice with that guy. NBA dreams could end with one "accident."
@Kcmatt7 I'm not sure what I think about his quote below.
“I don’t really care who’s there,” Duval said. “I can play with anyone. I’ve played with everyone. As long as everyone plays the game the right way, I’m not worried about playing with anyone.”
Is that arrogance or confidence? I know there is a fine line but it seems a bit odd to me.
The entire recruiting scene seems to have ADOS. Attention Deficit...Ooh Shiny.
Every time a new recruit signs or even is mentioned Garret gets lost in the news. At least for me, and I'm really looking forward to a long ball handler.
What if Duval signs, Svi comes back and Jackson tweeks his knee/back and wants to come back? Who gets das boot?
@joeloveshawks I think it is a perfect quote for someone in his position. Had he said "I don't care who is already there. I can beat anybody out" then I would worry.
He said "play with anyone". Great for team cohesiveness.
@drgnslayr That's you & I's new theme " Livin the Dream " lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I think Bill sees the reality. He knows he is one big-time player away from making next year's team a real threat at a FF.
@joeloveshawks Na it's not odd. - -The kid just have confidence in himself -ya he has a little bit of an edge, kind of a little cockiness - -but that's ok just like Josh now not saying he is any Josh - -different position BUT Josh had that little edge to him - - swagger BUT he could back it up - -Trevon can BACK IT UP - - there is a difference between someone who talks smack and then wet's all over himself & then a player as we hear not only talks the talk - -BUT walks the walk.
A article that stuck with me with Josh he was playing I believe Peyton's son I think maybe and Peyton was in the stands and Josh and him was exchanging smack with one another BUT Peyton said he liked that. -- WHY? Cause Josh could back his talk up. - - Trevon is the same way - - Lots of people said he NBA ready right now. - -Lot of recruiting analysts have said he is THE ONE PG that could go now if it was possible.
I don't think in anyway trying to be negative or anything else. He is just oozing confidence - - nothing wrong with that. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Well , I think that just maybe found why Josh hasn't announced yet. - - -Reason? - -He has been pretty busy. - -Today just came out an hour ago from the LJW - -Josh was in court today as he has been formally charged with Criminal Damage.
He is applying for a diversion , pleaded not guilty through his attorney , Was surpose to surrender himself to the jail by April 14th, where he will have his photographed and finger prints. - - His bond will be set at 500.00 dollars
In the main time while his diversion is being processed he has another Court app , Friday for his charge of Inattentive driving. - -So could be why he hasn't announced - - He has been to busy with legal. - -Just be glad for josh when he get's this behind him - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@approxinfinity said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
@BShark Holy crap, i've been staring at your thread title for a week and I just looked up what Crootin meant on urban dictionary. lol. I whiffed on that one!
Laughing pretty good.
KU has reached out to MSU decommit Garrison Brooks. Common thought is he will end up at UNC.
It’s been pretty cool just having guys like Bill Self coming out to my school to meet with me,” Allen said. “All of the coaches are letting me know how much they need me next season and of course that feels good. I’m planning to take a visit to Kansas; I’m not sure when, but that’s the only visit I have planned for now. It’s just part of the game. I was committed, but now I have to figure it out again. I’m not complaining.”
@BShark - - -I read on the Iowa State board , they were saying he is going to be there this weekend for a visit. - - Where as on your post , he was saying we were the only visit he had planned for now. - -So I'm guessing he must of made that statement before he set his visit with Iowa state right? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
That was about Thomas Allen, not Juiston.
Read where we are Visiting Tilmon today & also visiting Quigley? Oh can't remember his name - -the point guard , also visiting him today. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Correct KU is seeing Tilmon and Quickley today. I'd be surprised if KU landed another PG from Maryland tbqh...
http://247sports.com/Player/Immanuel-Quickley-85421 ↗
There were some reclass rumours with him, so maybe that's why the staff is checking in today...
@jayballer54 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
@BShark - Ahh, Ok so it was Allen only visit was for here right now? - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yes. Very much reads like he is waiting for a commit-able KU offer.
@BShark Ok. - - - -So then IF & I'm just asking , but if Josh leaves & SVI stays in the draft or opts to go back home and try NBA later , How many Schol's would we have? - -One , or Two?
Hoping Two because my thinking is - - if we would still only have One I'd prefer we use it on like Juiston or Tilmon I personally feel between the Two positions we need More help on the inside. What's your feelings about this?
Hopefully we would have Two - - that way we could possibly land both Big & Small -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Two. Staff wants a post player and a ball handling guard.
@jayballer54 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
@BShark Another Pg from Maryland? - -who is the one from Maryland? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Quickley is from MD. The last guard KU signed from MD...you guessed it....Josh Selby.
@BShark Well that's good we would have two thanks for that. Boy I honestly even remember about Selby being from Maryland - - Actually I really tried to forget about Selby lol.
So what do you REALLY think about possibly landing Tilman Actually I think we have a better chance at Juiston don't you? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I think it's pretty likely that Tilmon will end up at Missouri. Hard to pass on starting...
Heard coach is visiting Zion tues!
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Read off an article today Shakur is headed to DePaul for a visit this week. Did NOT commit to Iowa State over the weekend. Iowa State fans disappointed. Then some well of Course he is going to takes his visits, and of course making their comments why come to Kansas and waste away on the bench when he could go there and play valuable minutes.
Other schools being mentioned Oklahoma , Illinois , U Conn , Seton Hall and others.
Was mentioned Shakur is very aware of the Lawsons commiting to KU, and said I believe the Hutch Coach saying that this a concern for Shakur, because of his 2 yrs remaining. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Matt Says Tilmon will visit KU unless something happens. With Tilmon that could be anything.
Juiston might be here this weekend for a visit..
Being reported now that Juiston won't visit KU. Tilmon visit should def happen. Gotta think Juiston ends up at ISU now.
@BShark Dam. - -But guess I shouldn't be surprised with the brothers coming next year. - Still things as far as a Big goes for this year not looking good .Actually kind of a quiet year - -Got to believe Tilmon ends up at Missouri, wish we could of landed a Big. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Don't underestimate KU with Tilmon. We have a long-standing relationship with him. Getting him in for a visit is the key here. Missouri definitely has more to offer (playing time) but if he thinks Martin is going to develop him he's straight bat crazy and deserves that situation if he chooses it
KU will get another big. Can't say who it will be at this point, but Self will add a post player.
@BeddieKU23 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
yeah the Lawson brothers have eliminated his impact and minutes
Which sucks, I don't want him at ISU
While he will help ISU, I still don't know if they are a tournament team next year. Given the choice I think you take the Lawsons every time.
If a player thinks he cannot compete with the Lawson Brothers then he has no chance of making it to the NBA and might as well go to place where he will get good education. I like Duval's "I can play anywhere and with anyone" attitude.
Exactly. If we hadn't gone after the Lawson brothers I'm sure Shakur would be visiting this weekend and our chances would be greater. But he see's a crowded future ahead of him and is going to end up where he can produce now with just the 2 years. Seems like Iowa St has this one in the bag now.
We still need to get ourselves a big that can provide depth and push for minutes. Tilmon has to be option #1 now. Fight for minutes behind Doke now and possibly take his spot playing alongside Dedric in 2018-19.
"Kansas Assistant Coach Norm Roberts will watch 2017 big man Garrison Brooks on Monday. Brooks, who was released from his LOI to mississippi State, is also being recruited by North Carolina and Iowa State among others."
What do we know about this guy?
If juiston goes to isu he'll make them a tournament team. Wigginton is really good, too. If Preston gave half the effort juiston does, I'd be pleased. Not seeing that during the games or tapes I've seen. I was really hoping to get him, hard working great kid! Seems like a Bill Self kind of player.
He's 6'10 and a pretty decent athlete. Gets a lot of his points off dunks/put-backs. Has some rim protection ability with his long arms/athleticism. Has some range on his shot, can make an open 17 footer or 3 with time (takes a while to shoot and come down).
Reminds me a lot of Landen Lucas really although not as bulky as Landen was.
@BeddieKU23 I have to agree, I really think we need to still find a big for THIS class ew have took a lot of misses on players this year. I know we will be fine but man we have missed on a lot of players this year. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Can't shoot, perfect Bill Self 4 man. :laughing: Jokes aside, if Preston had Juiston's motor he'd probably not be at KU...
@BeddieKU23 said in Crootin Thread III, Wherein Some Players Probably Commit to KU:
He's 6'10 and a pretty decent athlete. Gets a lot of his points off dunks/put-backs. Has some rim protection ability with his long arms/athleticism. Has some range on his shot, can make an open 17 footer or 3 with time (takes a while to shoot and come down).
Reminds me a lot of Landen Lucas really although not as bulky as Landen was.
Yeah, at this point he'd be a take. I'd say #1 Tilmon, #2 Juiston, #3 Brooks in terms of priority. That's just my opinion on it.
Juiston has been really good so far but you have to consider that the competition up to now has been just one level above HS and we really don't know how well he will do against Division I players. He is the prototype tweener and I see him having a role similar to that of Jamari, a good Division I backup player but not necessarily a game changer or even a starter.
I really like the kid's motor and attitude which again, reminds me of Jamari, but his potential at this time is largely unknown. If KU can get him and he can perform as well as Jamari did, I would be happy.
This is a very valid point. Evaluating JUCOs is pretty much a crapshoot.
Hmmm, just curious I read where the Coach - -no not Self but assistant was going to watching Garrison Brooks tonight. - - 2017 big man who was granted his release LOI from Mississippi State, just curious if we could get him to visit - -wonder if good ol Malik could put a bug in his ear.
I mean who would be better to visit with him also coming from Mississippi state and now here? - -Could talk to him about the KU system ya know? - -Question is would we want to offer? - - Was thought North Carolina was on him heavy but now people talking maybe not so much. So what you think? - -Is he worth the time or not? - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@JayHawkFanToo yeah MVP of the juco national tourney a lil step up from hs. Jimmy butler says hi.
I would guess KU will offer Brooks if Tilmon picks MIZ.
Oh and MS reporting that KU is pretty much OUT of the Juiston recruitment.
Too crowded for Juiston. He wants minutes.
I said the "competition" is one step above HS level an I stand by that comment. Sure, there are some very good players in JuCo but most of the better players (with exemptions, of course), if they are any good they are playing in one of the NCAA higher Division and not necessarily JuCo. Just because there is a few quality players in JuCo does not mean the overall competition level is high.
Again, you can pick an exception to any group, but just because Jimmy Butler, arguably the most successful JuCo player ever and one who played only one year at JuCo, made it to Marquette and the NBA does not mean the level of JuCo play is high or that every decent JuCo player will make it at the next level.
Again, I did not say that he is not a good player, simply an unproven one, and a player I would not mind playing for KU.
BTW, Marquel Combs says Hi. :smile:
I'd say probably some of both. Self took the Lawsons after all.
!0_1492481996964_IMG_1970.PNG ↗
Probably not as much of a recruiting embargo as it sometimes seems.
Some more intel on Garrison Brooks.
Iowa St and SMU are involved more then KU is at this point. Who knows how much Monday's visit changed things.
Here is why Brooks got out of his LOI.
***His Dad signed his LOI and apparently isn't his legal guardian. His Dad is on the Mississippi staff but it sounds like the kid didn't really want to go there. His mother didn't sign the LOI.
Crazy parents!!
@dylans I mean I see the top two Nike schools with 44 top 100 kids and the top two Adidas schools with 29. I would be curious to see Nike vs Adidas going 3 deep. And the average ranking of the recruits landed by each school. That tells the real story. If you grab a kid ranked 99th, should that really count. And, many times KU has grabbed a guy, Mitch for example, and he starts outside of the top 100 but then has a jump in the rankings just after KU gets involved. What a coincidence... I'm sure it is the same for U.K and Duke, but Mitch didn't have his ratings jump when just Arizona was in the mix. When KU took notice he flew up recruiting boards.
Yeah, Mitch counts, but Mason and Graham don't? Kinda funny. Of course if you use 247, Mason and Graham were both top 100 at the time of commitment.
Guessing transfers don't count either, but KU just recently has got Newman, Cunliffe and the Lawsons. Four more top 100 type talents.
@Kcmatt7 You see two Nike schools. I see two schools that it doesn't matter if they are affiliated with Converse. Kentucky and Duke will get recruits as long as they have the two top recruiting coaches. Calipari pulled monster classes to Memphis, of course he's going to be able to recruit even better to UK.Coach K while loathed by some (me) is better respected than he deserves and he has quiet the credentials.
North Carolina schools UCLA, and Kentucky are the easiest schools to recruit to due to geography. Kansas has very little going for it in terms of geography. Proximity to Chicago is all. 1/2 the country away from either coast. Bill is an awesome recruiter.
We complain about how we somehow don't get top recruits -- an imaginary embargo. The numbers don't lie, though. We have the 4th most top 100 guys? That's free trade.
Is it surprising that a few teams might have more than us?
That said, the think what skews UK a bit is the number of one and dones -- meaning they rotate in multiple top 100s more often than we do. They might have 3-4 top 100s leave, and then replace them again (just more turnover, really).
Poor choices, poor circumstances (you name the reason) have been the only issue -- and it's all related to big men. Forget blame, Cliff, Diallo, Bragg. Pretty much all wastes of time and effort. Three top 100 guys that contributed very little in the end vs. what was reasonably anticipated.
Recruiting is not our problem. It really isn't. We are in the game. The big guys we've landed -- early/late -- haven't worked out. It might be the OAD thing. The focus on the crème (like Cliff and Diallo).
I still believe, and have always believed, the anti-OAD formula is the best approach. Josh Jackson was an unequivocal success on the court.
However, off the court, he created major distractions. This distraction element is not unique to OADs. But in our case, it was an OAD. However, it was not the normal OAD drama I had regularly referred to. JJ was the anti-OAD drama guy.
I can assure everyone, and every KU fan everywhere, that Kansas -- with Bill Self as coach -- can win a national title without one OAD. Without the pursuit of one year guys.
If you think that Bill Self is a better coach that Roy Williams, as many KU fans do, well, Roy just did it and has done it without OADs.
@BShark I mean its a mess to count transfers. Do you count Bragg, Greene, Frankamp, and AWIII transferring? Sounds like we are about a wash with those.
And I would say that Graham and Frank don't count. Not when we missed on how many players before them? I mean we actually got pretty lucky to land them right? Blessings in disguise.
I would say that Svi didn't count on the rankings and should. He came so late that they didn't update the ESPN rankings for him.
We definitely land enough players to win it all. But to say that there isn't a recruiting embargo is not looking at the numbers.
I have done some math of my own and here is some more numbers.
KU has been the 3rd best recruiters in the country, based on recruit ranking and the number. We have had more than enough talent to get it done. It isn't an excuse. But, I think it would be significantly easier if we were a Nike sponsored team. If we bumped our average recruit ranking up 3 or 4 spots and added one or two players in just the right years, how much does that help? How much does a Deandre Ayton help next years team? How about a Trevon Duval or Colin Sexton? Do we get a look from Kevin Knox? Bamba? I mean it matters. And, just a reminder, we were still a Nike school when we landed the recruits that lead us to a 2008 National Championship...
@Kcmatt7 Am I correct in your conclusion that because Duke and UK obtain better ranked recruits, there is thus an embargo? Embargo meaning those schools eliminated from consideration due to their affiliation (if others have a different definition that is more expansive, I'm interested -- embargo seems limited to a strict non-consideration).
Does anyone know how many Nike schools there are vs. Adidas schools?
@HighEliteMajor I definitely think there is an embargo based on brand.
For FBS programs, Nike has 68 schools, Adidas has 31 and Under Armour has 15.
Of P5 conferences, Nike has 44 of 65 schools. Adidas has 12, Under Armour has 8. (Russel Athletic has 1).
@Kcmatt7 I know this is not exact, but if you look at the graphic above, the two Adidas schools have 29 of the 89 players, or 32%. Between Nike and Adidas schools, the ratio is 68.7 -31.3. Again, not an exact comparison as the actual Adidas school number is lower overall as there are other companies as you mentioned.
Adidas schools regularly in the top ten classes are KU, Louisville, and UCLA -- that would be 30% of the total top ten classes, which matches up favorably with the ratio of schools that are Adidas.
I don't doubt that kids avoid Adidas schools. I guess I'm just quibbling with this over-arching embargo concept.
I agree. I have always stated that in general, a quality upperclassman will outperform an OAD. Of Course there are exception such as Josh Jackson, the Unibrow and a few others. As you mentioned, UNC was able to win the title without OADs and perhaps will give pause to teams that rely primarily on them such as UK and Duke and to a lesser extent KU.
Of course KU should not pass on players like Wiggins and Jackson but the foundation seems to be better with 3-4 year players like Mason and Graham. Without looking at the specific numbers, I would say that 2-3 year players in the 30-50 ranking would appear to be the sweet spot for KU.
I have to agree withe @HighEliteMajor that embargo means a complete stoppage or ban of players going to the Adidas school. Perhaps preference, bias, favoritism towards Nike schools would be a better description?
I would like to know what percentage of top 50 or top 100 players go to the school of the various brand affiliations.
Of the top 5 teams the ones wearing blue have 59 top 100 recruits vs 30 for all other colored jerseys. Just saying correlations can easily be made when looking for them. I'm sure KU has missed out on some Nike recruits because of Nike, but the grass is pretty green in Larryville.
Yeah the term embargo is a bit tough. Now, sometimes it does play a direct factor, like Tatum cutting KU early. It goes the other way too. Even though it didn't work out, Adidas helped with Bragg.
Roy had kids that were perceived OADs/in the OAD ranking range that stayed. It's hard to account for that. Bridges should have been OAD and is staying at MSU. Doesn't seem to happen for KU. I would say not only can you win w/o OADs, it's probably an advised strategy. 2012 Kentucky and 2015 Duke are the exceptions so far.
I would agree with that, but it seems the KU coaching staff doesn't. Looks like they will continue to chase OADs based on early reports with the 2018 class.
As a side note
Wichita State University today announced a new partnership with Under Armour. The Baltimore-based global leader in performance footwear, apparel and equipment will become the official outfitter of Wichita State University beginning July 1, 2017.
As part of the eight-year agreement, Under Armour will provide on-field and training gear for 15 varsity sports. Additionally, Under Armour will outfit members of the athletic department including coaches and staff.
The agreement between the university and brand will include baseball, women's basketball and golf in 2017-18, men's basketball and cross country/track in 2018-19 men's and women's tennis in 2019-20 and volleyball and softball in 2020-21.
Wichita State University joins the growing Under Armour roster of NCAA partners that includes UCLA, University of California, Berkeley, University of Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Naval Academy, University of Maryland, Texas Tech University, Northwestern University, University of Cincinnati, Boston College, University of Utah, University of South Carolina and Auburn University.
@JayHawkFanToo @HighEliteMajor Of the top 50 recruits in classes 2013-2017. (From who I believe their sponsors are. I could have missed 1 or 2 in each class).
Embargo is probably a strong term. But, I think KU lands more higher rated recruits if they are a Nike program. All it takes is some behind the scenes action.
Think of how important the AAU circuit is. You can almost predict whether a recruit signs Nike or Adidas based on his AAU team affiliation. They give these players so much. Shoes, Basketballs, jerseys, travel, etc. How these count as permissible benefits I will never understand. These kids do get paid. And, on top of that, their coaches get paid. And the coaches have a huge influence over these players. How else would it explain KU not landing any local talent playing for MO-Kan Elite? All the other local schools have landed someone from them. OU, MU, and SLU all landed players from that roster. We are getting frozen out of any of the top local talent.
I've also posted a long time ago about why KU recruits the highest rated players instead of trying to land 3 guys ranked 25-50 every year. It is because there is more competition for guys ranked 25+. The guys ranked 1-25 go to blue bloods like 75% of the time. So you are only competing against about 5 other schools and it all usually works itself out based on what teams needs are. BUT, 25-50 everyone is after them. Because now you are at a range that doesn't guarantee PT at a blue blood. But it does at a ton of other schools. So competition is much more fierce 25+. As and Adidas school, you also limit the number of guys that would sign with an Adidas school. So you are looking at maybe 10 players outside of the top 25 that would sign with an Adidas school. And then you have to compete with UCLA, UL, Miami, NC State, and Baylor for those scraps. Bill lands more than his fair share, but KU also spends the most money recruiting in the Nation. It is also why I think Bill has really started to use the transfer market lately. There are more quality players transferring than he can get just from recruiting HS players.
Ok , read some players we are visiting Today, & Tomorrow for 2018. - - So of the guys I am going to list , from everything I've read and heard from others - -even others from here , I don't believe we are leading on ANY of them , and some I don't think we are even in the park. So how many of these guys do you all think we really feel we have ANY kind of chance at? Just seems to me that possibly we get so zero in on ( EXP ) DeAndre Ayton this past year - -feel we're in such good shape that several other options get ignored until the ship has sailed on those players.
So read that Coach Self & Coach Townsend are in South Carolina today visiting -Zion Williamson. -- Now I would love to have him BUT he is one that I think I've heard umm maybe probably not so much
Coach Roberts is going to on Tues, & Wedn , is going to be visiting Jahvon Quinerly - - - Moses Brown , Louis King , & Naz Reed.. I think that yes we might be in the running possibly for Moses Brown & MAYBE to a small degree Naz Reid -- -maybe BUT other then that I'm not real sure,
Now I'm not sure I can't positively bring home points -Just possibly a theory , I feel this type of recruiting might be why we are scrambling some this year & you & I both know that can't deny WE LOST OUT on ALOT of players this year, more then I can remember in recent past - -Again I'm not condemning I love coach but are we limiting ourselves? kicking ourselves right in the butt. I mean seriously I feel unless there is just a dead right glaring difference I think were going to take the first one that commit. - -I mean here is what I'm trying to bring out.
If you are recruiting 2 players Say one is a 4 star & one is a 5 star - -one is rated like # 3 in the Nation - -& the other is like # 10 just for this example is all I think if the 4 star commits 1st then so be it. - I think we are getting into a trend where a lot of these kids are delaying waiting to see who's leaving - -who is coming back and such so we end up sometimes not offering and WE WAIT - -and then in the end the 5 star commits elsewhere and we have lost out on the 4 star = thusly we end up in scramble mode. So how many of these guys do you think we realistically have a shot at. Let me know - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Adidas has 12 out of 65 P5 schools or slightly over 18%. According to your figures above, Adidas has been getting at least 18% and up to 26% of top 50 recruits or just about its average or slightly over that. Nike has 68% of schools and it has been getting about that. Looks like recruits are going to school pretty much in the same proportion as affiliation.
Naz Reid has a handler, he's not leaving the Northeast
Duke has been strong on Zion. South Carolina's final 4 run probably helps them with him. We'll see, he's probably one we have no chance at getting but in order to have a chance you have to chase..
Moses Brown wants Duke but they haven't been after him like some other programs. Word is they will evaluate him during the first AAU session and decide whether they want him, and I can imagine they will. He improved a bunch this year.
Quinerly probably would have ended up at Washington had Romar stuck around. Figure Arizona will be in play with Romar on staff plus some of the usual east coast schools.. He seems an unlikely chase as well
@JayHawkFanToo I guess I'm missing your point. But I also think we are looking at this two different ways. You see it as everything is proportionate.
I see it as, we are missing out on having a chance with 70% of the top recruits in the nation. You also aren't factoring in the location of the players. Recruiting to the middle of Kansas is hard enough as it is. Add in the fact that we only have access to 25% of the available players. Of those, who actually fits our scheme? How about our position need any given year. That 25% starts to fall pretty quick.
But that is not exactly correct either. Just because we are not getting a large percentage of top50 players does not mean we don't have chance with them but that either we are limited in the number of scholarships or other programs present better opportunities, regardless of brand affiliation. Adidas schools are about 18% of the P5 schools and are getting about 20% of the top 50 players...seems about right to me.
@BeddieKU23 Ya so in the final analayis like I thought. Our chances are pretty slim to none on ANY of these guys. I understand what your saying aboutyou have to do things to have any kind of a chance. -My thing is DO YOU feel like when such as these cases - -DO YOU feel like we spend TO MUCH time AND EFFORT on these kids instead of the point I was trying to make? -Do you not feel like it is possible that we kind of get blinders on ONE and the main time other possible potent recruits slip away just curious. I by far am not trying to be negative on Coach wouldn't want anyone else. Just curious seems like there are a lot of guys that have gotten away and I'm wondering if it is because of the way we a zeroing in a certain CERTAIN ONE. - -I dunno - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yeah my man, the staff is just doing their due diligence. I don't think any of those players are kids that end up at KU. Like @BeddieKU23 said it never hurts to kick the tires. It's still quite early for the 18 class of course.
New 2019 name: http://247sports.com/Player/Josh-Green-46037279 ↗ From Australia originally.
News today that Grayson Allen is returning for his Senior season at Duke. Anybody else but me think that opens the door for KU a little with Duval. With him returning and Frank Jackson their returning 5 star PG as a sophmore. I think Duval might be looking at that situation and say to himself, man Allen is a ball hawk, and Jackson is expecting a bigger role handling the ball. Then you have 5 Star CB guard Gary Trent Jr. coming in as well. He might be saying to himself l.. do I wanna share the ball with Graham/Newman or with Allen/Jackson/Trent Jr.???
Gotta think in the back of his mind him being boys and playing with Preston in TX for a bit keeps it interesting down the stretch. Duval is supposedly unofficially visiting Duke today. I'm sure they are going to pull out all the stops to convince him Grayson Allen coming back is good for him and his situation. Conventional wisdom would say otherwise. I guess we'll wait and see. Also wouldn't surprise me if he committed after the visit haha.
@madmaxKU - - I hear ya, BUT I just really don't believe Gracie returning will effect his recruitment that much. - -Allen is not a true point guard - -never has been. Duval commit would be natural fit - -Allen slide back to his 2 spot and Duval take over the Point. Not sayin it couldn't happen, he made the statement he could and has played with anybody when talking about KU when they asked him about with Newman being here - -BUT that could also apply to Duke playing with Allen and Jackson & Trent.
Now if you wanted to reach - -think a little wild Could be from Duke's perspective they not feeling that comfortable about landing him - - Gracie has already talk with the Duke staff and gotten feed back from NBA , - NBA telling him his chances not that great at the present, put that with the Staff at Duke not feeling that comfy with the possibility of landing Trevon pushing Gracie to return for his senior year, play Gracie at the point and Jackson at the 2 - - REALLY think that's the case - -BUT hey if you wanna twist things around a little there ya go..- - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Well read that Rhode Island might be a player for Shakur now. - -Think they said he is going to visit them, close to home like 3 hours away from home for him, Iowa State people just in a frenzy - -well SOME are anyways, talking saying he must not like Iowa State or else he would of committed by now and such - -makes me giggle lol. - JUMPIN -- - GEE- -HOSSA - -FATS the kid is wanting to take his visits. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yeah that was out there. Last I read Duke people were still adamant he was there, but I haven't been checking. Think it's pretty clear he ends up at Duke. Too much smoke.
We do tend to spend more time on recruits where the smoke says they are going somewhere else. It can be very frustrating, like the Duval situation. Who knows how much we really have recruited him lately but for a good period they did what they could. Same with Trae Young, Sexton, Ayton, Brown and others. At least we are in the position to recruit them heavily. Sometimes we win out and sometimes we lose, maybe more then some other programs that are in the ballgame for OAD talent.
The only time I really get frustrated by focusing on 1 main target is when there is others that have comparable talent the KU could have recruited and maybe had a better chance of getting. There is plenty of examples of that over the years.
I don't necessarily think its due to zeroing in on one target and being stubborn about it. If said recruit knows your priority #1 above all usually that would stick with recruits. It may be apart of the vacuum that we see from the outside looking in on why these kids go somewhere else. This is a different era for sure and there are so many factors that go into it (especially behind the scenes).
As for the 2018 kids, the biggest thing to realize with today's recruiting is that things change daily. Other then Naz Reid, something could change that pushes anyone of them to KU. We just don't know but at this point I don't think KU is seriously involved with any of the 4 you listed. They are kicking the tracks, trying to stay involved and rightfully so. This is a down class overall and getting the best talent is really going to be at a premium this cycle.
We know the 2 guys so far that we've put a great amount of time into (Grimes, Dotson) and hopefully those two are the benefit of all that recruiting effort being involved with them early. Maybe Brown becomes an option if he waits until spring and Azubuike has a good enough season to leave. Zion, I think we are out of it unless he's playing SF at the College Level. Dedric Lawson is going to be better than any 2018 recruit we could get at the 4.
@JayHawkFanToo if only it was that simple... That is about as naive of a way to think about today's recruiting as it could be. But then again, I don't expect you to understand. It would require you to open your mind that more is going on than just 20 percent of kids "prefer" Adidas and 70 percent of kids "prefer" Nike. The truth is, we don't have a shot with close to 70% of eligible recruits. Part of the reason that we have a shot with the top tier recruits is because they know that they will get paid either way. And, there is a ton going on behind the scenes. Adidas and Nike reps get involved and give out unofficial endorsement deals for X amount if they go to an Adidas or Nike school.
Can you explain our inability to sign top tier MOKan Elite players? Or the "coincidence" that any player that gets drafted from KU ends up with an Adidas contract? Or that a player who plays for a Nike AAU team 9/10 times ends up at a Nike school? Or that a kid who plays for an Adidas AAU team is 8/10 times ending up at an Adidas school? Just preference?
If you think it is that simple, I guess we can just agree to disagree.
@BeddieKU23 YA, see you pointed out one of the big things that bothers me to, that I used as an example in my post. - -That's and again it sounds worse when I type it then it really is - Cause don't get me wrong, I love our coach, But like you said my point exactly this is what gets me - -again an example say we are recruiting 2 guys same position player - - ONE might be a 5 star and like ranked 3-4 in the Nation, then we also recruiting a 4 star ranked say 10th in the Nation - -actually pretty similar in talent maybe little variance so this is when I say or so it seems like we spend so much time on the quote - -in quote 5 star player recruit - -recruit - - recruit and in the end run lose out on him & then main time back at the Ranch the 4 star that had similar talent has stepped on - -that ship has sailed because we didn't stay on him as much, took his talent somewhere else, then we lose out on Both - -Which puts us in a scramble mode or so it seems, looking at the transfers harder -post grad transfers - -de-commits - -see what I'm saying? THAT'S what frustrates me. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@Kcmatt7 So if there are only a few Adidias schools worth going to and nearly 1/4 recruits are affiliated with Adidias it sounds like a recruiting advantage for KU. If this is true then KU pretty much has it's choice of 1/4 of the top 100 talent. Why give up such a recruiting edge? If 100% of Nike recruits stay with Nike, why switch to Nike when all the other blue bloods already are Nike? Kansas would just be another Nike school, another face in the crowd.
I certainly understand the frustration. Recruiting today is just a war and there is never going to be a simple model for KU to follow. Bill used to get good talent that stayed, now he's lucky to get 1 year, maybe two from the best. He used to get kids he could tell "red-shirt and you'll be good down the line". Those days are gone. It shows you how much he's elevated the program, but also how much the mindset of 99% of kids today has changed. I find it impossible to think he'll be able to balance out getting OAD types and program players every single year. Just too many variables to juggle. If your a top program you recruit the best and hope you can snag yourself guys that fit your program. Josh Jackson, Joel Embiid, Andrew Wiggins etc those are exactly the type of talents you don't stop going after because they are the face of your program after they leave. And while they are here you hope those kids can elevate your team to win a championship. I can't imagine the drop-down in play had those guys never set foot on campus and KU landed a less talented kid. That's the challenge, knowing when to stay on the cream of the crop and when to target someone you need years to develop. I think Self has done an admiral job so far in a ever evolving landscape of competing for players that want everything now.
I will say this, I like how we are getting highly talented transfers in the past 2 years. Instead of getting talent the staff has to invest 3-4 years to get the most out of (like a red-shirt type player would present) we land Malik Newman, Sam Cunliffe, the Lawson Brothers. These guys aren't projects, or guys we are hoping can elevate their play with development. These guys are already good, NBA good, if things go right. This is a grand experiment to see whether Self can mold any type of player he gets. Some past transfers have worked out okay.
@dylans Do you really believe if we switched brands it would erase all of our history that has made us a Blue Blood?
Also, we are still recruiting against Indiana, UCLA, NC State and Louisville for those small number of recruits. Isn't it more likely that we are able to find more players that fit our system out of 70 players than out of 25? Look at UNC. Are they still a blue blood? Yes. Have they been one of the top 5 recruiting? No. But they pick from who fits their system and keep them for 4 years and have now won 3 championships in 12 years. That is the model everyone wants isn't it? Solid recruits, that fit to our system, and stay for 4 years. I think that is what Nike would provide us.
All you had to say is that we agree to disagree and not make it personal.
BTW, Wigging and five-star players Alexander, Kelly Oubre Jr. and Wayne Selden, all AAU Nike players signed with KU; I am not sure who sponsored Jackson's 1Nation Elite teamt. In the last few year KU has gotten 3 # 1 players, Wiggins Jackson and Newman; does not look like KU is having any problems recruiting and the only issue is scholarship and playing time availability. If Devonte declared for the NBA, chances are we get Duval as well. You also have to consider that the Nike EYBL has been around a lot longer than the Adidas and Under Armor Leagues and thus have more and the more established teams.
As far as MoKan players, it has nothing to do with brand affiliation but with a personality conflict between KU and MoKan personnel, and the rumor in the KC area is that MoKan wanted to have a big influence in the KU program and KU would have none of it. As you know, KU has not recruited any players from MoKan passing on some really good ones.
Kansas and Illinois have emerged as the two likeliest landing spots for Cal transfer Charlie Moore, per multiple sources.
— Jon Rothstein (@JonRothstein) April 19, 2017
Not a fan of tying up ANOTHER scholarship for a player who can't play this season
@JayHawkFanToo We were never favorites for Duval. Not from day 1. If we land him, amazing job Bill. But he has been assumed Duke bound since before Devonte was staying and actually presumed to leave.
As I stated in my previous post, part of the reason that we recruit, and can land such highly rated recruits is going on behind the scenes. Adidas signs almost every single Jayhawk that makes it to the league to an endorsement deal. We are the face of Adidas in college basketball. So some of these top rated players know that if they spend their one year here they have a deal in place.
All of those guys landed Adidas contracts immediately after they declared for the draft. The only one who singed with Nike was Thomas Robinson. I'd say that is no coincidence. In fact, there were rumors of Wiggins shoe deal before the season. http://nesn.com/2013/10/report-andrew-wiggins-has-180-million-shoe-deal-with-adidas-waiting-for-him-when-he-enters-nba/ ↗
Let's just say that probably had an influence on him choosing the 'Hawks over Florida State or Kentucky...
And, we have recruited MoKan Elite when they have had any real talent. Pretty sure we just watched more than a dozen games played by Trae Young. Also recruited Carte'Are Gordon. We offered MPJ. That would be 3 players on that same MOKan roster...
Anyways, this is my last post on the subject.
@BeddieKU23 10 man rotation was rough last year.
@BeddieKU23 Only thing, he can shoot. Although he didn't have much of an Assist to turnover ratio. HAVE to land a guy who can play PG in 2 years though. Just in case.
I had never even heard of this kid ... apparently it's KU and Illinois.
It seems like taking transfers is a good way to have a kid on the bench to practice and get better, while they aren't complaining about playing time. It's pretty hard to actually fill out a roster of 13 players that are actually good without complaints about playing time and being a transfer risk themselves if they don't play enough.
As for Charlie Moore, he played on the same AAU team as the Jacobs bros. Could be a factor. Assuming Duval to Duke, I don't hate it. Presumably it's between Moore and Allen for the last guard scholarship. The only issue it does present is a very thin back court to start the season provided Svi is gone. Garrett would be forced into 20+ mpg.
I did see that Illinois seems like the favorite here. But I still don't understand going after another sit-out transfer unless we have another scholarship opening somewhere or the Lawson's plan on having daddy pay their way for a year and Self has their scholarships to use instead.
I get that its hard to fill the roster to 13 these days but we need at least 11 available bodies this season. That way we can afford to lose 1 player which seems to be the norm now during the yr.
Moore is good, he was solid at Cal so I'm not questioning his ability. Just trying to wrap my head around this one
I can definitely see only having 4 eligible guards in the first semester being an issue. It would be nice to have another guard that can play, even if it's only in spot minutes.
I think another post player is the more pressing need. Not because of the numbers as 4 quality post players would be fine but Doke is still very young, Preston is talented but mercurial and a frosh, Coleby is a foul machine and Mitch could use a RS year.
Could Texas pull Bamba? I know nothing about the kid, other than that his ego is strong.
"It’s corny, but I really want to have buildings named after me at whatever university I go to and if I can do that in one year it means I had a great year.”
Yeah we definitely still have needs for 2017 that's why I'm surprised Charlie Moore is even on the radar without knowing what's happening with Svi, Tilmon and Allen at this point.
Svi would solve the perimeter issue. With how stacked this draft is I still can't find a way he gets drafted before mid-2nd round.
Tilmon would give us 5 talented bigs to throw out there. Who knows what's going to happen with him.
Allen- obvious guard insurance, will he wait out Svi's decision or will the staff move on him before?
I can't imagine we go into next year with just 4 bigs. None of our perimeter options are Josh Jackson who can just seamlessly transition to guarding bigger players..
Yes they can. They definitely have the most available playing time to give him and his relationship with Smart is the best if we believe what's posted on the internet...
I think he goes to Kentucky given the type of player he is and two of his best friends on the team (Green & Diallo).
He's definitely keeping everyone guessing. Duke fanatical's still think he's going there. Delusional bunch they are
I don't think Bolden stays if Bamba were going to Duke.
Ya know , and I thought this even before but even more since I've talked to several friends acquaintences. I just believe and some different things I've read , for one that some times these NBA people will advise guys that might be projected in the middle to lower pat of the 2nd round - -they advise them to go play ball over sea's for a year , then declare for the NBA draft kind of stockpile these guys then draft them. This way the kid STILL makes some money playing for that year & then declares after that year.
I have felt for awhile this is what SVI would do - -I didn't think about playing over sea's for the year and then declaring but makes sense -gets paid then declare the following season. - -I've just have always thought he would do what he did Declare- -then if he doesn't hear what he wanted, I have fully thought that he would return back home and play ball - -didn't see him coming back - - -STILL don't see him back. - -If I remember right when he came he said at the time he was talking 2 years , as far as the NBA goes personally I don't believe his stock will rise a lot higher, just think he is done at KU. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Shayok to ISU
@BShark I agree. To me the post is the large issue. We lose Landen, we lose Bragg and we lose Josh who was not a post player but was our starting 4 essentially all year. The backcourt seems ready to go whether or not Svi returns.
Offensively in the post it is a concern. Basically we return zero scoring down low since Doke was hurt most of the year. Doke is a beast and should get plenty of opportunities with put backs and alley-oops but does not shoot well from the floor or from the FT line. Coleby is offensively challenged but he plays hard. Mitch is in need of at least one more year before he can be counted on and from what I have seen Preston is anything but a traditional post player. One more solid body down low would be fantastic before recruiting is all said and done.
If KU has not named a building after Chamberlain, there is no way it will name one after Bamba. Has any school named a building after a basketball player? I don't believe UNC had named one after even Jordan. Kid's ego needs a reality check.
There's nothing wrong with a high school senior dreaming about being so special to a college that a building gets named after him or her. It's a cool dream really. I wish I wasn't so grounded in reality that I could dream like that. I don't ever laugh or ridicule the dreams of young people. I hope their dreams come true.
@stoptheflop It'd be nice if one could maintain that unbridled optimism while not being completely ignorant to the workings of the world.
@stoptheflop I like to take a zen approach to it. It is what it is.
There is certainly a positive and negative application for a less restrained ego.
The one that always got me was Dakari Johnson saying he'd beat Michael Jordan in his prime one on one.
approxinfinity said:
The one that always got me was Dakari Johnson saying he'd beat Michael Jordan in his prime one on one.
...but more importantly...could he beat LaVar Ball?
@approxinfinity My first thought was, "yea, maybe ping pong."
But freaks like Jordan are great at everything. So probably not.
Baylor snags another 7 footer.
Leonard Allen, Older brother of Jarrett Allen.
@JayHawkFanToo I realize I'm ruining it by saying this, but I appreciate that your comment got zero response, just like the real Lavar Ball! Ignoring him is the only medicine that will make that clown go away.
No problem. LaBar Ball is only good as a punch line on a joke. :smiley:
BeddieKU23 said:
Baylor snags another 7 footer.
Leonard Allen, Older brother of Jarrett Allen.
Not nearly as good for anyone wondering.
Yeah I was going to say something about desperation but KU recently gave Evan Maxwell a scholarship for a semester sooooo
Moore isn't a bad player by any means, just won't be available next year and it sounded like KU was the favorite for several other higher ranked targets.
Barring another transfer, I do like that he is a guy that will be at KU through his senior year, don't see him leaving for NBA early. Need a few of those long term guys, most players on the roster will likely leave us in the waiting game to hear if they are back or not.
Also, seems like the biggest need right now is landing another post player, maybe this is the writing on the wall that Svi is definitely gone?
Twitter isn't running with this yet so not sure how valid that story was at the present moment
The only higher ranked player now would be Duval (Moore is better than Allen and if Moore could play this year it wouldn't even be a choice which to take), and I think the staff was told he isn't coming here if this news is true.
Big if though. This is really weird. Might be fake news or something.
Thomas Allen committed to Nebraska. I'd say the Moore thing is probably true, it just broke before he wanted it out there.
I would think it means there is no spot for him at KU.
If the report on Moore becomes true here are some stats for those who are unfamiliar with him.
ESPN ranked him the #1 transfer today.
Freshman scoring record for a game at Cal with 38 against UC Irvine. He hit 15 FT's in that game. 75% from the line on the year.
35% 3 point shooter, 38% overall FG %. Not great numbers but certainly can be improved.
3.5 assists per game, 2.9 turnovers. Typical of a freshman Point Guard forced into a starting role with not a ton of talent around him.
4 games over 20 points
5 games with 3 or more steals
9 games over 5 assists.
Averaged 10.3 pts vs ranked opponents (3 games against Oregon, 1 Virginia, 1 UCLA, 1 USC, 2 Arizona).
Not if he goal is getting PT this year.
As for Moore, I like it if true. Makes Grimes the key 18 recruit by far. This also creates a nice situation where the staff isn't heavily depending on the weak 18 class and allows the 19 class (where KU has a lot of ins) to be a focal point.
What's the latest on Duval?
Ok, so I'm a little confused , what a surprise right? lol. So Thomas Allen, this is the one that had originally committed to North Carolina St right? then changed his mind after Gottfried got fired? - -so it's him that committed to Nebraska?- -I thought he was so sure fire about coming to KU, yet I had heard we hadn't offered is that right?
The I read on here about Moore from Cal - -It was mentioned about if the story was true - -Has then been something from him about coming to KU? - Sorry but I'm not seeing where this is all coming from. If anyone can help me - -would greatly appreciate it. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He was a slow roll. I would guess he didn't have a commit-able offer.
@BeddieKU23 Ya he loves the Media -said he was going to come up with something totally special that had never been done before for his announcement. One way or another I believe he said he was going to or hopefully make his decision towards the end of April - - -well we getting to the end of April, will there be ANYONE not be put on the paddles if he DOES NOT commit to Duke?
I again just don't see when these kids know - -and I truly believe he HAS known for quite sometime as to where he was going to commit , I just don't see why he doesn't just go ahead and announce - -Again lets revert back to the lime light / social media - it has truly become a Circus. Same can be said for Kevin Knox - -I feel he too has also known for some time now, again a Circus - - he has even as much said he would make his announcement depending on media time/coverage availability. - - WHAAAAAAAA ?
On another subject has anyone heard anything more on Tilmon? I know he was I believe at Mizou last Friday & I also think Coach Self has had a visit with him - -Anyone heard any more since - - been pretty quiet since. If anyone knows fill me in please. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Duval has always loved the attention so there's no reason for him to stop just yet. He's been in Duke's pocket for 4-5 months now.
No new news on Tilmon. Wonder what's going on there.
I think the Knox situation has changed. I think there's a strong sense he's going to Missouri. The Duke people seem to think so as well.
Agree its a circus and we all play into by talking about them constantly.
@BeddieKU23 Well your right thee. Definetly play into their hands by talking about them so much - - - - they love it. Also agree I think Know just might end up at Mizzou, hate em BUT will have to say if he commits there pretty dam good recruiting class ending up there.
So whz the deal with the Moore kid, can you give me any details? Has there been movement about him maybe being at KU or what? - - Thanks - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Moore is from Chicago. ESPN had him ranked #61, #72 on 247 in the 2016 class. He was originally committed to Memphis then a coaching change happened and he went to Cal. Solid freshman year. From what I've read he's transferring closer to home, his father had a stroke in 2015 and is still recovering so maybe this is a move to be closer to him. Illinois was involved with him first time around and with them having openings I can see him taking a strong look at them.
He's good enough to play at KU if that's what ends up happening. Solid freshman numbers with obvious improvements to be made on FG%, turnovers etc, something a sit-out year and natural development could cure. His advanced numbers aren't great, 13.6 PER and his usage was high for the amount of minutes he played. Cal wasn't good even with a 1st round pick on their team. He was decent against ranked opponents, struggled some in conference play. I don't think there was enough talent around him for him to be his best.
Yeah this isn't rocket science. Duval is at Duke (likely filming his commitment video) but denies it fervently because he wants to "keep it a secret". Then it leaks that Moore has popped for KU, but it gets retracted, probably because Moore wants to announce the news himself. Then Allen announces for Nebraska.
Definitely feels like Knox could end up at Missouri. Honestly, it could be his best option for playing time. Duke is pretty loaded, and UK is stacked with wings and combo forwards.
Matt ScottVerified account @KUTheShiver 2m2 minutes ago
Charlie Moore tells me that he's not sure where he's going just yet. #kubball
Boy what a recruiting year this has been, just seems we have either missed or forgotten or what but a lot of in committed players that went to other schools that we were on at some point or another.
Off the top - - from 247 sports - -# 3 Ayton - -# 4 Sexton- -# 5 Duval- - # 12 T Brown- - # 22 Young- -# 32 C Brown- -# 39 Tilmon- - #40 Waters- - # 122 Gak- - # 125 Wooten- - # 186- -Rufus, these are just off the top
Then weren't we recruiting Matt Coleman also at some point? - -Some grad transfers - -some transfers - And yes even though not really heavily - -Allen. just frustrating were missing kind of goes to my point from yesterday -are we zeroing in on certain players - -TO MUCH? others getting away I dunno - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
KU never recruited Rafus and it was very brief with Gak.
@jayballer54 Try to think of it this way, there are only 13 spots on the roster (scholarship spots) and when you subtract returning players, we can really only "win" on recruiting on a handful of players each year due to that alone. Don't let the "misses" get you down.
@BeddieKU23 I saw Moore play during his senior year. I didn't know anyone on the court, but it was very clear right away that he was a very talented kid.
Well this should come as NO SURPRISE to anyone , but was just on the Duke boards and looks like Trevon Duval is getting ready to formally announce going to Duke. - -Lots of talk they say on twitter about it. Some guy from NBA draft Express saying multiple sources telling him that Duval ready to announce his is committing to Duke. - -No surprise there. - -Hell most have known this for the last month but looks like finally coming to an end. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
What's the latest on Moore? We sure could use him for in 18/19
Ok, here is another question. With the very distinct probability of Jontay Porter committing to Mizzery to play with his Brother Michael - -Wouldn't you think that would have a tendency for Tilmon to kind of look elsewhere? - -Jontay pretty decent player also I could very easily see him and Michael both in the starting line up just curious to see how that might effect Tilmon's decision.
Going to be kind of interesting also even though not really thinking it will effect us in any way but surposedly Duval close to announcing for Duke - -BUT Mark Smith who is also a heavy Duke is going to announce tomorrow night at 6 - -both PG and heavy Duke see how that works out , - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I thought Mark Smith was between Illinois and MSU? But what do I know I don't follow HS kids too closely until they sign with KU. I don't get invested in a kid that's not invested in me (with a KU commitment). It saves on a lot of grief.
@dylans True. Smith is in on Michigan St and a lot seem to think that's where he will end up. I should of said that Duke had been pushing on him hard lately and they were talking about him making his announcement tomorrow night. - -I don't think they will lost to much sleep on him if he picks Michigan State and they end up with Duval. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer54 The fact that Duke even talked to Mark Smith is not a good sign for them though. As far as landing Duval that is.
Duval could still end up declaring Duke and playing overseas. Knox was offered $1.4M to play in China. Wouldn't surprise me to see Duval offered something similar.
If Jontay decides to reclassify and play with his brother I can see Tilmon having second thoughts. This is one time where nepotism might hurt MU. :smiley:
@JayHawkFanToo Jontay Did re-classify. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer54 I stand corrected - -Could of swore he did re-classify - -BUT not quite yet I guess , went back trough thought I had read where he had, but not yet - -but I think we all have a pretty good feel that he is going to. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
dylans said:
I thought Mark Smith was between Illinois and MSU? But what do I know I don't follow HS kids too closely until they sign with KU. I don't get invested in a kid that's not invested in me (with a KU commitment). It saves on a lot of grief.
Looks like Illinois is the latest scuttlebutt.
Oh and 🐦 View Tweet
Well I see Duke offered McCormack and the cb picks rolled in ofc.
Seems like Duke has backed off Romeo Langford.
Having visions of Langford and Grimes now. MERCY.
Charlie Moore to KU, it's official now.
Our 1st semester sit out team is better than KSU. LOL.
Not worried about the guards at all. Svi coming back solves it all really. Stellar guard depth and he could play the 4 as needed. If Svi is gone, I think we need a big that is eligible immediately.
Already in a KU jersey on his twitter profile pic my man.
@jayballer54 OK, so help me out. - -What exactly is a grant - -in - -aid? - -That is what the Lawson's and Moore are all on at KU - -is that schlorships? - if not what is the difference?. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer54 I wonder with our guard situation - -think we are pretty deep, and with us pretty heavy on Grimes and Dotson bot pretty heavy leans for us at the present if one or the other ends up committing wonder how that will effect Markese? - Is that his name right? - -you think he might back off? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Markese is all in, and will be handed the keys to the program provided he develops as expected. Also, Moore played AAU with the Jacobs bros.
I'm thinking, maybe KU doesn't end up with Dotson. I wouldn't be broken up about that.
Need based financial aid provided to students. Legal workaround to pay for the kids college expenses when you don't have scholarships available.
A big or Svi returning imo.
There was an interesting caveat at the end of that article, it said "barring a waiver from the NCAA, Moore will have to sit out a season." Is this waiver even a possibility for Moore? Kindof caught me off guard on that one.
I don't think he will get it, but he might as well TRY to. His dad had a stroke and he wanted to transfer back somewhere in the midwest to be closer to him.
I will say this one more time. I think SVI is gone whether he declares for the draft, stays in or not. If he doesn't draft in the NBA then there are a lot of NBA teams that are telling iffy players to go over sea's for a season play and then enter the following year. I feel this will be the case for SVI , return home and then declare again next year for the NBA. -- Sorry to say but I think if your really honest - -his stock isn't going to raise that much by coming back for another year at KU. - No matter he is NOT going to be a 1st round pick, so I really believe he will go back home play a year earn a little money and then declare again next season. This will leave us the one available also for Tilmon or another big hopefully. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
http://247sports.com/Player/Jules-Bernard-85588 ↗
Got a KU offer.
I respectfully disagree. Svi's patents are both college professors and value education highly and they have indicated in the past that they would like to see him get his college degree. His stock will not get any lower by coming back and he can actually bump it up quite a bit with a good season. He is still very young so, unlike older players, there is no urgency on his part to go to the NBA and he does not have a family or possee to support. My guess is he comes back.
BShark said:
http://247sports.com/Player/Jules-Bernard-85588 ↗
Got a KU offer.
Quoting myself!
KU is pretty much his first BIG offer. UCLA is keeping tabs but hasn't offered. Looks like an in-home visit will happen and he had very nice things to say about KU in an interview on 247.
Just saw that McCoy picked UNLV over MSU and Oregon. Wow.
@JayHawkFanToo And that is what's good about the site. - -We can agree to disagree. We shall see, I just don't see it happening. SVI like so many others can ALWAYS return and get their degree at any later given time. Not anyone saying about having to support family. Plus and to disagree SVI 'S stock will not jump drastically , he has just about hit his potential as far as NBA status goes - he would have to have an off the charts for him to rise as drastic as what your talking about. - -Most drafts had him middle of the 2nd to not drafted this year. He will not ever be a 1st round, just not that much time for that big of improvement. There is no way he would have even close to the type of season Frank had this past season. Using Frank for an example, he wasn't on anyone's draft before the season began NOW even with the season he had he is still low 2nd round to possible very low end of the middle 2nd.
True Frank & SVI different players, different positions but it would take close to that type of season for SVI to get to the 1st round again
from not being drafted to middle of the 2nd by most drafts to what your looking for 1st round - -just not happening.
But again that's what's good about here, everyone welcome to their opinion. We shall see. - - . - -if you remember back when SVI 1st came to KU he was saying he was looking at TWO years that was all, so feel fortunate that he has played three, his whole intentions were to be here for TWO years, Coach Self has even brought that up in past discussions. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
This is the first draft where he was not projected to be a first round pick and you could say it is more because of the other available players. Svi is only 19 years old and he would be 20 when he enters the draft after playing one more year at KU or the same age as Josh Jackson.
As far as comparing him with Mason, it is apples and oranges and it has nothing to do with the positions they play. The main reason Mason is not a first round pick is his height; if he is 3-4 inches taller he is a top 3-5 pick. Isaiah Thomas of the Celtics, one of the better players in the NBA, was taken with the last pick of the draft (#60) and he is an inch shorter than Mason. Svi has the perfect build and skill set for his position and with his age not being an issue he could easily move to the first round with one additional year of experience; heck, I would not be surprised if a team picks him in the first round this upcoming draft.
GMs lose their minds over measurables. Anthony Bennett went #1 because he was long and could jump, but he couldn't ball.
Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark Kind of seems like a lefty BG.
But maybe one that isn't a jackass.
And I expect UCLA, USC and Oregon to get on him now... Have to protect those recruiting grounds.
Probably much more able than BG to actually play guard at the college level. Depends on how much more he develops but I think he would have the potential to be a 2/3 under Self and actually defend opposing guards decently. Kid can definitely fill it up either way though.
Here is a highlight video
@BShark He definitely has better lateral movement than BG. At least it seems that way. Hard to tell until you put a D1 level guard in front of him.
The type of guy I'm glad Self is on early though. Back end of top 100 and clearly underrated. Multi-year project too. I'm sure he will be on campus for Late Night. Just hope we can land him early in the recruiting season.
@JayHawkFanToo like I said we shall see. you think he will - - -I think he won't. Neither one of us will change our opinion. ROCK CHALK ALL ADY LONG BABY
I did no say my position is set in stone, it is not and it could easily change as more draft information becomes available.
Based on what I have read to date, I believe that if the options are KU or Euro ball, he comes back to KU. I really do not believe he will stay in the draft unless he has assurances he will get selected in the first round but you never know. Euro Ball will always be an option so I would think he is not in a hurry since he is still very young.
Svi being invited to the combine seems a stretch to me..
Am I wrong here?
It depends if you consider him to be or not to be one if the top 50 or so players out of the 190 or so that have declared for the draft so far. I believe he gets an invitation.
BeddieKU23 said:
Svi being invited to the combine seems a stretch to me..
Am I wrong here?
Tall wings that can shoot are kind of a dime a dozen in the NBA. If his defense was better, I think it would be a no brainer to stay in the draft.
There Are seniors and international prospects to be considered as well.
I don't think he's in the top 50
Well I read Coach Self's update on SVI. - - that he believes that the early invites to the combine he thinks goes out on the 26th 27th & 28th of April - Said usually is a good indicator of a potential early entry stock.
If a college player isn't invited then usually chances are not a likely a candidate for a first or even a high to middle 2nd round.
Coach says all indications seems to lean that SVI WILL be invited to the combine. - -Talked about he is an intruiging type being able to create his show during international ball - -and then his age , so sounds like from what Coach is saying sounds like he probably will be invited to the combine.
He says if he is invited then they will get back together after and then start talking to the GM'S of clubs - -he said well actually SVI would be talking to GM'S. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Latest CBS draft projection based on who has declared for the draft. ↗ Look who shows up at #29...👍
@JayHawkFanToo And notice who isn't mentioned on the list of 75?
Howard watched a younger Lawson a few days ago. His twitter has some KU on it now. I think the Lawson experiment is going to pay some serious dividends.
I was surprised to see Mason that high. I have checked at least half a dozen mock drafts and the highest I have seen Mason is #39 in one and most of the others have him as bottom of the second round to not drafted. There seems to be a lot of discrepancy among publications and many players are 20 or more places apart in the various lists.
At this point, I am not sure which is the best and it will be after the combine before we get a better idea of where the various prospects stand.
KU will be going up against Top 100 recruits in practice every day next season. Our scout team is better than most teams we play next year.
@Statmachine Bill's high dollar hair plugs may combust if the scout team beats the starters.
If Mason goes at #29 that will be incredible. Very hopeful that occurs.
I don't think that Frank cuts the first round. And, if that is the case I hope he goes undrafted. That way he can go make a rotation for a good team. Much like Wayne has done. Wayne is setting himself up for a nice payday next season. Although, his contract is apparently a team option for $1.3M next season so he might get cut. But I think someone will pay him next year even if that happens.
I am not sure Masson goes in the first round but teams shoul look at Isaiah Thomas that went #60 but on the re-draft he was picked #4. ↗
Ok guys , this might be silly but just thought about this possibility , see what you think. - - Does any of you think maybe , possibly the reason we Haven't heard anymore on Tilmon is because he is waiting to announce his decision where he is going after we find out about SVI ?
I mean yes I fully understand they play two entirely different positions but just maybe he holding on to see , cause if SVI does stay in or doesn't return that would free up a spot for him and that he actually is wanting to come here now.
I mean it's been dead silent about where he going to land right? The last of ANYTHING I heard was when Coach Self visited with him I believe about the same time he took his Missouri visit. - -I would think if he is really all fired up about committing to Mizzery he would of announced that by now right? - So just a wild thought thinking MAYBE he holding off to wait and see if there will be an open scholarship at KU BEFORE he makes a decision. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Doubtful But props if that ends up correct.
Losing svi and gaining tilmon would be the only situation that softens the blow of losing senior guard
@BeddieKU23 Ya I know pretty wild thought I grant but just curious. Just kind of hard to figure haven't heard squat have you? - I thought it was a pretty easy read ALL MISSERY but now I'm thinking not so much. Who knows. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
The last day to withdraw from the draft is May 25. Unless Svi decides before then one way or another, chances are that we will have to wait until then to know for sure. I am sure there are dozens of programs that would gladly make room for Tilmon so I would not think there is much urgency on his part.
Read this morning SVI got his NBA combine invitation - - Good luck SVI hope all goes well. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Heard from a pretty good source Coleby is probably transferring and Tillmon should be visiting soon.
@Kcmatt7 Hope that's not the case with Coleby. He's in line for some pretty good minutes this year and possibly starting if Preston doesn't come here. He'd at worst be the 1st big off the bench which is still usually good for 20-25 minutes.
If he leaves and Preston doesn't get cleared, and Tilmon (who I don't think is that great to begin with) doesn't commit, we're left with UA and Lightfoot in the paint.
KU's already still going to be pretty thin up front this year, but Coleby possibly leaving almost forces KU back into the 4 guard line up just because of depth. I hope that one's not true at all.
Til mom is a head case. And so is Tilmon (spellcheckdumb). We've had enough head cases who maybe cost us a title this year.
Tilmon was actually going into what looks to be the comeback of Illinois basketball and he's probably goin to Misery? Something not right upstairs with I am afraid.
Kcmatt7 said:
Heard from a pretty good source Coleby is probably transferring and Tillmon should be visiting soon.
Lines up with a comment Self made about possibly having to add two more players and yes it was after Moore transferred in.
I don't think Coleby would leave unless it was specifically to accommodate opening up another scholarship. I could be wrong though.
Coleby played 2 years at Ole Miss, sat 1 year and played 1 year at KU, so it is possible that he has enough credits to graduate, transfer and play immediately elsewhere as a graduate transfer. I don't believe he has lived up to expectations at KU, a tall task for most ant players any way, and I don't believe he is NBA material either. A transfer to a higher academic profile school where he can play and get a Master's Degree sounds likde a reasonable option.
@JayHawkFanToo Or to a lower academic profile school where he could start, possibly?
Wouldn't he have a better chance to start at a school that emphasizes academics over sports, i.e. higher academic profile school?
@JayHawkFanToo Ok, I see what you mean there … generally, high academics means he would be one of the best players/more likely to start. I'm a little slow sometimes …
@BShark Who's out there that's a better fit for KU right now than Coleby? Unless Self has been hearing that Preston likely won't be cleared, there's not a starting spot available in the post anyway. Coleby will be a 5th year player that has been through a lot and his leadership is going to be huge for UA, Preston, and Lightfoot next year.
Well just listened to and read from different site, Bagley in is latest interview from the EBYL talk pretty dam highly about KU kinda interesting.
Like a poster said brought up a couple of points after the interview # 1 poster said he didn't think Bagley would re-add us to his list IF he wasn't seriously giving us consideration, wouldn't be no need to do it just for hype/show - as he already had the Big name schools involved BEFORE he re-added us to the lost - -UK/Duke.
Again had some pretty good things to say about KU in his interview. says he wants to get the recruitment out of the way would probably like to make his decision in the fall so he could concentrate on his game. - -Like has been said could you imagine him in the front court with the combination with Udoka and the Lawson's ? have to agree he would start immediately better then any player on the current roster for sure. Absolute animal for sure. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer54 DAM cap key - -sorry Guys. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer54 If you start a line with a # and a space it makes everything after it large and bold.
(#) like this
@Hawk8086 I don't know why other than I think he could probably start at another school. I'm assuming that it is contingent on landing Tilmon, but I could be wrong.
I just don't think Coleby's time here has gone as well as he thought it would. The knee injury probably changed a lot of things.
@Texas-Hawk-10 I think we will be a 4 guard team again regardless of how the roster shapes up here down the stretch. Our strength, regardless of who else we add, is our perimeter. We need to play to that.
I think Coleby could be looking for a more predominant role at a smaller school. Not sure. I'm not sure that it isn't contingent on landing Tilmon. I think Bill is just very upfront with the players. This is who we are recruiting and this is where you would fall in our lineup if we did land that player.
Are we still a 4 guard lineup with or without Svi though?
What perimeter player can reasonably step into Jackson's role?
I don't see that player on this roster.
Svi, Garrett, Cunliffe, Vick are all guards and expecting them to fill Jackson's role is an injustice to the players and to the team. And let's consider that all 4 of them have NBA potential and playing out of position is not going to be positive for their draft stock. Jackson was such an unique case that we have to completely throw out any comparison to him going forward.
The wildcard is Preston and how much consistency he can give to the 4 spot.
We also need a big summer from Lightfoot because it looks like his role is going to expand with just 10 available scholarship bodies after Self took the 3 transfer sit-outs.
It seems we will be headed back towards a more traditional set this season because of Preston and or the development of Lightfoot.
I think it will be important to see who gets the last scholarship open right now. If another scholarship opens through Svi leaving or the Coleby talk then other potential situations open up
@BeddieKU23 I think it is an injustice to the team to not play 4 guards if we don't add another post. We are too good and athletic to not put that on the floor. You need to put your 5 best basketball players on the floor and things will take care of themselves.
And, as far as draft stock, I think it only helps a guy like Svi or Vick. It shows 2 things. That they can operate in an NBA spread style offense. And, that they can guard positions 2-4. If anything, it raises their draft stock.
@Kcmatt7 @BeddieKU23 I guess I'm very confident that our lineup is set -- Graham, Newman, Vick, Preston, Udoka. That's just how I see it. If Svi comes back, I do think that Vick starts. Vick's better. Of course, Preston could end up being a Diallo or Bragg to Self. Barring that, it's hard for me to imagine Preston not starting. Maybe not game 1 or 2 (where Self might start Coleby), but pretty quickly.
Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 I think it is an injustice to the team to not play 4 guards if we don't add another post. We are too good and athletic to not put that on the floor. You need to put your 5 best basketball players on the floor and things will take care of themselves.
And, as far as draft stock, I think it only helps a guy like Svi or Vick. It shows 2 things. That they can operate in an NBA spread style offense. And, that they can guard positions 2-4. If anything, it raises their draft stock.
I'm all for putting our five best players on the court, we agree there.
Things take care of themselves though when you have the right fit to make such a situation happen. Jackson "fit" playing the 4 because athletically he could hold his own on defense and offensively he was too skilled and quick for posts to cover him. I don't buy that we have another such situation where we can just put a guard on the court and ask him to play out of position, consistently, at a high level. That's asking a lot from any of the available options.
I guess we should wait and see how the roster shakes out before we can really figure out what style of play this team will be playing with. I'm all for the 4 guard lineup, it was exciting to see from Self. If we have the right players to execute that style of play again I will be behind it. I think right now we lack that with certainty. Self's rolling the dice only having 10 scholarship players available for this upcoming year.
@BeddieKU23 You're right, it will shake out.
I just haven't heard good things about Lightfoot in practice. I heard he should be playing down the road at Baker...
So I don't feel confident he should be out there playing the 4 anymore than Cunliffe, Vick or Svi. I guess that is what I'm basing most of my opinion on. I definitely see Preston and Doke starting the game. But there is only about 25 minutes a piece there. So I'm seeing us be a 4 guard lineup 15 minutes a game at least...
2018 activity and offers flowing.
Montez Mathis interesting 2018 name to keep an eye on. Not ranked high enough imo.
Also reports that Tilmon is down to KU and Missouri.
Did anyone substantiate the claims that Coleby might leave? Makes no sense.
Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 You're right, it will shake out.
I just haven't heard good things about Lightfoot in practice. I heard he should be playing down the road at Baker...
So I don't feel confident he should be out there playing the 4 anymore than Cunliffe, Vick or Svi. I guess that is what I'm basing most of my opinion on. I definitely see Preston and Doke starting the game. But there is only about 25 minutes a piece there. So I'm seeing us be a 4 guard lineup 15 minutes a game at least...
I'm going to wait on Lightfoot, I think his impact comes in year 3 and 4. If he puts on weight this summer that would be a good start to him seeing more minutes this upcoming year.
But I do agree he's not better then a guard we could throw out there talent wise, but defensively he offers more than any of the 3 at least in the post area. Self has his work cut out for him trying to figure out what identity this team will have. Last years squad didn't come together until the season started even with veterans and wasn't until Bragg was under-performing did Self trust that the 4 guard lineup could happen. Probably going to take a similar situation where Preston/Lightfoot fail to gain the trust of Coach enough to go with 4 guards.
Duke fans freaking out about signing a 3 star guard for depth. Yikes
Freaking out about a player that won't play for them next year, if ever, is weird.
Hameir Wright said he's still weighing a move back to 2017, but the plan right now is to take a prep year. Kansas and Michigan State are making a push. Miami, Syracuse, Villanova, Maryland, UCLA.
Hameir Wright #27 in the ESPN top 60, #45 on 247 for 2018 6'7 SF. Has to be Svi related..
@JayHawkFanToo just telling you guys what I hear. But I can keep those comments to myself instead if you would like.
@Crimsonorblue22 I wouldn't think we are screwed. We will end up with a backup to Doke one way or another. Either Coleby will stay, Tilmon will come or someone will come out of the woodwork.
Duke landed Thorton about this time because they whiffed on every PG they went for. Had to call him up and get him to reclass. We could do something similar, worst case scenario.
@approxinfinity I heard it from one of the basketball managers that he is probably leaving.
Has Coleby graduated? If not he'd be sacrificing his last year of eligibility to transfer again.
Wow. Would take. Hear he might be an MSU lean though.
Keep the info flowing. You get that LTfoot take from the coaching staff even if indirectly? I've always said he needs the RS year.
Exactly what I figured on Coleby.
@approxinfinity I'm not sure. My buddy (the manager) just said "Dwight was probably transferring." And then I asked if it's because we are getting Tilmon or if he knew anything about him. He supposedly could have visited on Sunday is what my buddy said. I'll ask him and see if it happened or not. I didn't get to grill him about it as much as I'd like to, and try not to bother him about stuff all the time so he keeps giving me stuff.
@BShark And my buddy said something similar to this: "Lightfoot is awful. Just awful. He gets roasted at practice. He shouldn't even be playing here. He should be playing down the road at BU." I'm not sure if that is what the coaches think, but this is at least someone's view that is at practice every day with the team.
@Kcmatt7 guess everyone is entitled to their opinion huh lol. - As far as my self I would have to disagree about mitch. - -Again maybe not this year but yet he will get some minutes, yet another year with Hud and I think he is a player that can contribute. Hell he already has in some spots hustles, dives for loose balls, blocks shots brings energy. Not really quite sure what people are looking to see from him. a stud HE IS NOT
@jayballer54 to follow up as I still haven't figured things out o the system as far as editing I knocked myself out of my post some how lol. Anyways as I was saying a stud he is not. BUT I feel in his JR year and even to some degree this year he can contribute in certain ways for spot game time Never going to play a huge role but umm BAKER? come on now let's be real lol. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@mayjay I'm not sure. It isn't like they are giving away plays or gameplans to other teams. If you were an opposing coach or program, what info do you gain from what he told me? A backup big who could get 10 minutes a game might transfer and one of our players who is a 6'6 power forward sucks? Most could assume it. I know I predicted a Coleby transfer months ago. And it might not even happen.
The majority of things I get from him are who we are recruiting harder or how visits went. Rarely do we have a roster conundrum like this, so it isn't an issue.
@jayballer54 click the three vertical dots on the lower right side of your post. It will pull up a list of options Edit is right up top.
Cheers!
Kansas has landed William & Mary grad transfer Jack Whitman, source told ESPN. Averaged 10 and 5 this past season.
@Crimsonorblue22 who is that?
Coleby's replacement. :drum:
@Crimsonorblue22 Looks like a depth pickup. Grad Transfer. Had an extremely efficient season last year shooting 66% from the field.
Jack Whitman Per 40 line:
- 18 Points
- 9.8 Rebounds
- 2.1 Blocks
- 60% from the FT line
@Crimsonorblue22 I haven't seen him play or heard of him. I know we try to compare a lot of guys to Kevin Young, but this guy sounds like Kevin Young. Efficient scorer, decent passer for a big man, decent rebounder, gets to the free throw line.
Welp so much for Tilmon. - - dam - -starts looking like we just finding a body. -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
This doesn't eliminate Tilmon. Tilmon has the same proposition, he'd likely be the third big in KU's rotation.
I'm surprised by this as I thought he had visits to UNC, Clemson & George Washington lined up..
If Coleby is in fact leaving and I think the staff thinks Svi is gone as well that would leave us potentially 1 more spot open..
BeddieKU23 said:
I'm surprised by this as I thought he had visits to UNC, Clemson & George Washington lined up..
If Coleby is in fact leaving and I think the staff thinks Svi is gone as well that would leave us potentially 1 more spot open..
He already visited UNC I think. And yeah some solid names involved.
@jayballer54 I wouldn't say that quite yet. Still pieces to fall. This, to me, looks like a pickup for a 4 and a sign that Svi isn't coming back.
Gives us 5 guards, 2 PFs and still only 1 C. We need Tilmon.
As far as scholarships, those will work themselves out. I still think there is a chance that a Lawson could be a self-pay for one season. Or somehow be a "student manager" for the season and still practice and get paid. They did that with Svi and Coleby during the University games exhibitions so that they could practice over the summer with the rest of the team. They literally had to wear different clothes than the team that matched the managers to be in compliance.
Some advanced stats on Whitman
Made 91 of 132 shots at the rim good for 68.9%. Landen this season was 94 of 131.
Made 14 of 27 2 point jumpers good for roughly 52%. Landen was 19 of 48 on 2 point jumpers.
Terribly FT shooter- 92 of 154.
PER 0f 22, which would have been 3rd best on last years squad. His Offensive rating would have been 2nd on the team this past year.
We'll see, looks like solid depth for either spot.
Whitman is Lightfoot insurance, in case he isn't ready yet. It's Preston insurance in case he isn't ready yet.
@Kcmatt7 Wish I could think as positive, I just don't see any thing good out of this - -my thought is Tilmon informed them he was not coming, just a last minute thing for a body to back up Udoka maybe wrong but for sure not getting /doing flips. From the LJW he said that he had given some thought about possibly visiting UNC but didn't looks like, hope he is more then what I think. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Whitman had 13 and 4 against Duke in 16 minutes
3 and 6 against Louisville in 19 minutes
8 and 4 against Rhode Island in 24 minutes
Had 21 against UNC Wilmington, highest of the season.
Efficient scorer, can't go wrong.
Looks like KU is officially transfer U
@jayballer54 There are a lot of work-arounds to scholarships in our current situation, I believe.
One of the Lawson's could literally take just one "class" that happens to be at the weight room with Hudy. And then be a "volunteer" practice player. The women's team brings in male practice players from the student population. We could do the same thing. Easily. I expect us to have 14 scholarship players on 13 scholarships this year one way or another.
KUSTEVE said:
Whitman is Lightfoot insurance, in case he isn't ready yet. It's Preston insurance in case he isn't ready yet.
Lightfoot isn't ready, that we know.
jayballer54 said:
@Kcmatt7 Wish I could think as positive, I just don't see any thing good out of this - -my thought is Tilmon informed them he was not coming, just a last minute thing for a body to back up Udoka maybe wrong but for sure not getting /doing flips. From the LJW he said that he had given some thought about possibly visiting UNC but didn't looks like, hope he is more then what I think. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Enh, he could give 10-15 minutes a game and doesn't impact future targets.
Kcmatt7 said:
@jayballer54 There are a lot of work-arounds to scholarships in our current situation, I believe.
One of the Lawson's could literally take just one "class" that happens to be at the weight room with Hudy. And then be a "volunteer" practice player. The women's team brings in male practice players from the student population. We could do the same thing. Easily. I expect us to have 14 scholarship players on 13 scholarships this year one way or another.
Yep. Room can be made. Bill is creative.
No, keep the information coming by all means.
It is just strange considering how positive Coach Self has been about Mitch in the not too distant past. Like I said, it sounded more like comments we would see in the more contentious boards or something @elpoyo would post. We will find out in about 3 months.
@BeddieKU23 So guess I have this question. With so many misses in high school recruits this year and so many and then relying on so many transfers this year do you consider this year in recruiting a good year - -a so , so year or a down year?
The Lawson's is solid , This guy I feel not so much , Cunliffe , might be fine , Charlie Moore I'm taking a wait and see with him. I know probably just me BUT I just feel that this has been a little frustrating on the recruitment trail this year - MAN I hope I'm wrong. so what do you think? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@Kcmatt7 Those "per 40" lines are dangerous extrapolations, or so I've been told/scolded. But sometimes depth -- even D-II or D-III depth -- like Justin Wesley, is the difference between a Final Four and something less.
Here's his Game Log ↗ from last season. Scored 13 vs. Duke. Wesley wasn't doing that.
@Kcmatt7 Well I'm sure not challenging you on what you say as I will more then willing admit there is so much that goes on in these scenario's I'll take your word, I'm in no way in a position to try to talk differently. Thanks for the help bud , I guess I'm just a little frustrated with this whole year in recruiting, - -just seems like we have missed SO MANY and again seems like we are in a scramble mode and then with this kid like at the surface TO ME it's just a body to warm a seat - -that's not the right approach I know and I swear I hope he pans out. Thanks for the info buddy. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@BShark Well my friend THAT for sure you are 100% correct on with him being a grad transfer so I reckon that's a good thing, I just hope so badly I'm 100% wrong on the guy, I have no real information, maybe he can back Doke in case of foul trouble give us some minutes.
I think believe it or not Udoka plays a huge part for us in this coming season, hopefully he can play without getting into instant foul trouble going to be key. Now I still have to say I really don't think some are giving Mitch the credit he deserves. Sure he will never be a jock basketball stud, BUT I don't think he is as bad as some are trying to make him out either. - -If you give him this year to continue to work with Hudy then I beli3eve he can give us two solid quality years in a back up capacity . Mainly because from what I saw other then major under developed body for major D-1 basketball I saw a lot of scrappiness in the limited time he DID play, big hustle guy full of energy did a lot of things that goes in noticed in the box score, Bottom line I just hope we can put this together for another solid year. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
HighEliteMajor said:
@Kcmatt7 Those "per 40" lines are dangerous extrapolations, or so I've been told/scolded. But sometimes depth -- even D-II or D-III depth -- like Justin Wesley, is the difference between a Final Four and something less.
Here's his Game Log ↗ from last season. Scored 13 vs. Duke. Wesley wasn't doing that.
Yeah depth is good, it's better than the alternative. Honestly, I'm just not going to fuss that much about the end of the bench. There are a lot of KU fans losing it over this addition, and I just don't get it.
@HighEliteMajor I only used the Per 40 because it is easier to compare players than just saying he was a 10 and 6 player.
Well off another site poster said and might make some sense if it turned out to be the case. Poster said with him being from William & Mary he says bet his has the grades for an Academic Scholarship. That could be an option possibly and still have a scholarship available. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@BShark I saw the Shiver was having a hissy fit. I'd be worried if he wasn't efficient. But to me, a guy with some skill around the basket who blocks a shot or two a game is nothing to snub.
@jayballer54 We might not be landing flashy pieces, but we have a sneaky good roster. Starting, we will have 3 McDAA. The other two guys were popping up on draft boards last year. Off the bench, we have two top 100 - 6'5 guards and now a post player that averaged 10 and 6 in 22 minutes.
Also, just to add more information, he played in the Colonial Conference. Sagarin ranked that as the 13th best conference out of 34. And William & Mary was the 4th best team. William & Mary had the 108 toughest schedule out of 351 teams. . So he didn't play amazing competition, but he could have definitely played worse.
In the 10 games that Whitman played vs. RPI top 100 opponents:
!0_1493756416116_Whitman vs top 100.JPG ↗
I think that is about what we should probably expect out of the guy most nights.
I like his post moves. Left handed hook shots. Head fakes. Looks like a high bb IQ. And he's willing to ride the bench. What's not to like? It's not like we can offer any recruit that much playing time ( except Duvall ).
[
http://www.d1circuit.com/news_article/show/787849 ↗
Could be that Demarius plays himself into a KU offer so that he can play with his brother in college.
Well after further review lol. Maybe not quite as bad as my first really bad thought process. Seems pretty fluid, seems like he wants to take the ball to the hole with authority - -ALOT gotta like that - has some bounce, some nice inside moves - maybe not ALL against A-1 talent but still think he will give us some quality play possibly. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I think he is a fine addition for what KU will ask him to contribute.
The big knock on him was his shooting ability, and reportedly he has improved it a fair bit. That isn't close to the only big time risers/improvers/stock increasers article that mentioned him. It wouldn't surprise me if one reason he took the prep year was to hope for a KU offer. Also spaces him just one class apart from his brother. He has the toughness and grit Self wants, based on everything I've read.
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 So guess I have this question. With so many misses in high school recruits this year and so many and then relying on so many transfers this year do you consider this year in recruiting a good year - -a so , so year or a down year?
The Lawson's is solid , This guy I feel not so much , Cunliffe , might be fine , Charlie Moore I'm taking a wait and see with him. I know probably just me BUT I just feel that this has been a little frustrating on the recruitment trail this year - MAN I hope I'm wrong. so what do you think? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I'm not sure its a down year, actually we are probably in uncharted territory here with how many transfers we are taking.
Landing Newman last year seemed to have scared off other guards we were so desperately going after. Probably the only one that would have been as good as Malik this season would have been Sexton. So in the end losing out on all guard targets except Garrett sucks but we still have really good options. Newman is likely to be a 1st team All Big-12 player, can't complain if he performs.
Speaking of Garrett, he makes the class good in my opinion. I hope my confidence in his game pays off. Exciting kid, exactly the type Self loves.
The Ayton miss and the non-existent other options in the post besides Preston is the most puzzling aspect of this years recruiting class. Preston is such a wildcard. He thinks he's a OAD, he will be a OAD regardless of his season. I just hope he's eligible otherwise the Whitman signing was more then just "depth". If Preston can be coached Self will have fun with him.
Cunliffe, solid addition if he matures. He better get on board with the rest of the team and fit in. Messy situation leaving ASU, usually where there is smoke of a kid being detrimental to a team usually that isn't the type Self goes after. I'm hoping he was just immature and needed a better situation. Bouncy, can shoot and create his own. Rebounds, some potential defensively. Lots to like.
The 3 sit-outs will be very good here although the Moore signing left us IMO 1 scholarship short for this year that we could have used to create a 6 perimeter, 5 post situation, great depth, covers injuries, etc. But Self is gambling on Moore paying off in the future so we must get on board I guess.
Lawson, definite favorite for Big-12 POY and All American when he's eligible. Seems like the other Lawson still has some potential to max out. Home run signings IMO.
So while its always great to get the best High School kids out there it seems Self has really changed his mind on finding the best talent out there regardless of what it is. Former Top HS kids, Newman- Top 10, Cunliffe- Top 40, Lawson- Top 30, Lawson- Top 60, Moore- Top 75 now find themselves on KU's roster. Will be interesting to see how they all mesh.
Whitman looks better than Coleby. Obviously more athletic. All based solely on the video and the numbers/stats. Is he really better than Coleby?
All the video's I've seen point to a player with some really nice footwork, can catch the ball, survey what is happening around him, and make quick fluid moves to the basket. Unless Preston comes ready to play this seems more then just a depth move.
@BeddieKU23 Kevin Young 2.0?
@HighEliteMajor Agreed. I'm pretty sure I did a ton of analysis two years ago trying to see if there was a way stats could prove LL was our most effective post player. Couldn't find anything to support it, and actually saw that Diallo was more effective per minute than LL. Significantly more effective...
I wish we had played Diallo more. But I think I'm in the minority with that.
Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Kevin Young 2.0?
Maybe, I'm not sure he's the comparison that best fits Whitman. He looks like he can take contact and finish which is a nice thing to see from someone who finishes most of his baskets at the rim. I just like how he knows what he is supposed to do, no hesitation, he understands angles and pivoting to get his man going another way. Very optimistic he can fit in the rotation
HighEliteMajor said:
@Kcmatt7 I like per 40 analysis ... posted a lot of that stuff over the years. It was particularly insightful with Diallo and Alexander. Others reacted quite negatively to the comparisons.
I remember the discussions. I think the biggest problem is if the 40/per stats are based on sample sizes under, say, 10-13 min per game. A guy can come in and really skew his numbers by being able to average 4 pts and 2 rebs in an average 6 minutes for 4 or 5 games, but might get no more than that every time he got extended minutes. I.e., can score in spurts but no distance on his motor.
The value to the stat is still there, but I think it is limited to comparing people whose actual game minutes are similar.
@BeddieKU23 I only bring that one up because they have similar stat lines at that lower level and both seem to be fairly coordinated guys with high BBIQ.
The other big key about grad transfers is they are such low risk. It's like a one year contract in baseball.
Agree on the guards, Sexton would have been an electric signing. Young would have made KU boards happy, but he was never a great fit. Not saying I didn't want him, because he would have been a fine add, but he reminded me of Frankamp.
I'm not big on Cunliffe. I think the staff has a lot of work to do there.
Garrett looks like a great multi-year addition to me. If he does blow up and show he can play PG, it might only be 2 years though.
HighEliteMajor said:
Whitman looks better than Coleby. Obviously more athletic. All based solely on the video and the numbers/stats. Is he really better than Coleby?
Probably, but we won't know for sure until we see him in a KU uniform. I'm not convinced Coleby's knee could hold out for 20 minutes a game. Coleby was like that kid on the little league team who when he actually did anything positive, everyone was extremely happy for him. Coleby's one, actually good game was the Texas game. He was just kind of...there in the Georgia, UK and Purdue games. So yeah, I would hope this kid is better. At the very least, he has two healthy knees.
Kcmatt7 said:
@HighEliteMajor Agreed. I'm pretty sure I did a ton of analysis two years ago trying to see if there was a way stats could prove LL was our most effective post player. Couldn't find anything to support it, and actually saw that Diallo was more effective per minute than LL. Significantly more effective...
I wish we had played Diallo more. But I think I'm in the minority with that.
Argh Diallo talk again, this is still bothersome for me so I'll keep it short.
I think Diallo should have played more. Definitely instead of Jamari. Sure he was rather lost on the court most of the time, but he had the ability to make up for it. With more playing time, the hope would have been he would figure some things out. Some players just need the actual game time instead of practice, maybe this was the case with Diallo, but sadly we will never know. I think the biggest issue was his offense. He was easily determined as a net positive on D despite his lapses. His offense was worrisome, probably a net negative and I think he felt he had to shoot more often than he should have.
I agree. Statistically speaking, the per 40 is similar to the models used by KenPom and Sagarin that get better as the sample size increases but are wildly unpredictable with small samples. The per 40 stat is better suited when players average at least 20 minutes. Players that average less than 10 minutes are in the game for situations that call for their specific strength or at the end of games, neither a typical game environment.
In Alexander and Diallo's cases, the per 40 stat really is misleading because based on their on game stats they would never play 40 minutes...unless the NCAA allows 12-15 fouls before fouling out.
Diallo sucked hind tit. He was lost and way behind. Raw with a late start. He needed 2-3 years in the system to be a + for KU.
Alexander was coming on strong late and would have been a big factor for KU in the NCAA tournament had he been allowed to play. His roll was expanding as the season went on. If allowed a second year Alexander would've been a beast! Diallo who knows?
@mayjay @JayHawkFanToo Not an exact science to be sure. Lucas is a great example of a guy whose productivity in limited time ended up translating with more playing time. Traylor is an example where more playing time meant less production.
The fact that a player may never play 40 minutes because of fouls is irrelevant. Most players don't may 40 minutes anyway. The choice of 40 minutes is a semi-random static number. Remember that. It could be per 30. Or per 48. It's just chosen because that's the length of a game, and most players never play 40 anyway, as mentioned (fouls or no fouls).
The per 40 is really a "per minute" stat. That's how I always tried to break it down. Per minute. But, of course, it's the same issue in determining what it means.
The ultimate key is to find the point of max productivity. With Traylor, it really was about 10 minutes per game. We saw that over his entire career. We could get bursts of good play.
With Diallo and Cliff, the more experience they could get, would likely lead to more productivity over longer stretches of PT. That's because of their talent level. The limited PT gave us glimpse of what could be. We've seen that with multiple players at Kansas where they progressed and became more productive.
Jeff Borzello
ESPN Staff WriterHameir Wright said he's still weighing a move back to 2017, but the plan right now is to take a prep year. Kansas and Michigan State are making a push. Miami, Syracuse, Villanova, Maryland, UCLA.
http://spartanavenue.com/2017/05/01/michigan-state-recruiting-hameir-wright-reclassify-2017/ ↗
Is he a real possibility in 2017 with Whitman?
What happened to T. Mack from Texas? Why'd he get kicked? Seemed like he was coming on strong.
dylans said:
What happened to T. Mack from Texas? Why'd he get kicked? Seemed like he was coming on strong.
Not much has been released on him, still don't know why he was shown the door but he had to have pissed off Smart because it was him who suspended him and not the school. Here's what I found
Those schools include South Carolina, Clemson, East Carolina, Florida, Florida State, Connecticut, Wake Forest, Georgia, DePaul and North Carolina.
Mack was home for spring break last week but did not visit any schools. He is going to finish the semester at Texas and then go from there to decide on his new school.
“I think he’s really waiting for the coaching changes and what players are transferring out or in,” Ms. Mack said. “He said it’s going to be much closer to South Carolina than he was. When he first talked about leaving, he said it’s more than likely an ACC or SEC school.”
If we are to take what Matt is saying we are not getting Tilmon.. Not even a visit..
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking
BeddieKU23 said:
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking
Mystery of the century revealed.
At least he was pretty straight forward in that post. The bit about KU not being done if Tilmon/Duval go elsewhere combined with other bits makes it seem like Svi is leaving and so is Coleby.
BeddieKU23 said:
If we are to take what Matt is saying we are not getting Tilmon.. Not even a visit..
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking.
I missed this, where is it?
Crimsonorblue22 said:
BeddieKU23 said:
If we are to take what Matt is saying we are not getting Tilmon.. Not even a visit..
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking.
I missed this, where is it?
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking
Mystery of the century revealed.
At least he was pretty straight forward in that post. The bit about KU not being done if Tilmon/Duval go elsewhere combined with other bits makes it seem like Svi is leaving and so is Coleby.
Yeah I think the staff can't close 2017 yet without knowing if Coleby is leaving after this semester or Svi stays in the draft. Still lots of players out there.
BeddieKU23 said:
Crimsonorblue22 said:
BeddieKU23 said:
If we are to take what Matt is saying we are not getting Tilmon.. Not even a visit..
His "KU is in it for Duval" has changed to "would be surprised if he picked KU". So shocking.
I missed this, where is it?
- Basically saying he thought Tilmon would visit but sounds like that's not happening or not likely on the books right now. Things may change but there wasn't much confidence in that post.
About as negative as he gets lol.
As for your next post at this point it sure seems like Svi is gone. I'd love to see Coleby stay for post depth.
Wow Kevin Knox to Kentucky. They have 1 million forwards now.
We've mentioned this kid before.
Jalen Carey 2018 combo guard from NY received a KU offer. Slater and Meyer CB'd him to KU. If Slater knows something that would be something to watch.. Carey is very good! Typical Self guard.
Also to mention, he's having a very good spring in AAU. 6'3 Top 50'ish type IMO
BeddieKU23 said:
We've mentioned this kid before.
Jalen Carey 2018 combo guard from NY received a KU offer. Slater and Meyer CB'd him to KU. If Slater knows something that would be something to watch.. Carey is very good! Typical Self guard.
Also to mention, he's having a very good spring in AAU. 6'3 Top 50'ish type IMO
I was coming to post that Carey got his KU offer. I'm not surprised. I'd guess he could commit today if he wanted to. I would assume there is always a spot for Grimes, and then first to commit of Dotson/Carey/etc...
I don't think Duke would offer Carey as they should land their top targets, same with UK. So I could definitely see KU being his top offer.
I am not sure if this has already been mentioned but apparently Chandler Lawson, AKA the "third" brother was offfered a schoolie by KU. ↗ several other offers are mentioned in the article.
JayHawkFanToo said:
I am not sure if this has already been mentioned but apparently Chandler Lawson, AKA the "third" brother was offfered a schoolie by KU. ↗ several other offers are mentioned in the article.
Yep. His dad might be moving to Lawrence to coach HS bball too. Wrap it up if that's the case.
JayHawkFanToo said:
I am not sure if this has already been mentioned but apparently Chandler Lawson, AKA the "third" brother was offfered a schoolie by KU. ↗ several other offers are mentioned in the article.
Oh, you Wiley guy. You managed to get me to click on a Star link. I hate giving those :shit:s views!
@BShark ya right now he has 23 offers. Florida, Indiana, Syracuse, Villanova U Conn to name some.- As of right now he is listed a # 82 on 247 rankings but I'm sure he will move up - -good size 6'3 PG out of New York chances are physical player coming out of there playing on the grounds of New York probably not afraid of drawing contact, not a bad thing. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Another kid to watch that we have been talking with a 2019 to go with Markese class. - -6'8 Isaiah Stewart also out of New York Rochester.
Of course the normal we are recruiting against - -Duke, N Carolina and us -says he really wants to hear from us that's a good thing. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
jayballer54 said:
Another kid to watch that we have been talking with a 2019 to go with Markese class. - -6'8 Isaiah Stewart also out of New York Rochester.
Of course the normal we are recruiting against - -Duke, N Carolina and us -says he really wants to hear from us that's a good thing. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Doesn't seem that likely given how deep KU is in with JRE, Chandler Lawson, Matt Hurt etc...
Watched what I could find of Marcedus Leech. I take it all back, no way he could be the odd man out. He might actually be a guard, very good handle for being 6'6''. His ceiling is unreal.
@BShark
I suspect there could be a Greyson Allen effect going on. Maybe kids just don't want to have him as their teammate. I certainly wouldn't want to go to Duke if I knew he was going to be back on the team. Knox goes elsewhere, Duval taking a looong look at his options and not committing to what most think is a certain pick for him.
@RockChalk ya I just can't believe why he hasn't announced there yet I mean from everything you hear and have heard it's been ALL Duke, yet he hasn't announced. Just keeps saying he is close, he is close. So WHY?
Maybe there is some truth about his grades after all. Maybe he IS goin to end up going over sea's and play. Just doesn't make any sense other wise. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
If Duval goes to Seton Hall the Duke sites would implode.
Just have to laugh when a kid announces that he is about ready to announce when he is going to announce - you follow that lol ? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
jayballer54 said:
Just have to laugh when a kid announces that he is about ready to announce when he is going to announce - you follow that lol ? ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
you shouldn't be surprised with Duval.
@BeddieKU23 Ya , I know. - -The longer this carries on and let me make this clear I by far am not looking for him to say he is coming here, no way BUT seems like the longer he drags his out, doesn't it seem like he loves to be the center of attention ?
It has become very obvious he wants to make sure his announcement is the only one of the day. - -Is he a me, me, me guy? Beginning to look like it , not sure we would really want a player like that anyways, not sure if he would fit or become more of a bigger distraction and cost the team in the long run. - - Might be better that we DO have a Garrett in the mix after all. - -4 year player, more of a team player maybe. Not saying they are on the same level but still. -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Do any of the elite programs have any scholarships left? We know that KU is pretty much tapped out and I imagine most of the other major programs are as well. Wherever Duval chooses to go, there is a good chance that someone on that team will have to give up his scholarship which will result in bad chemistry. Not the best way to join a program but OADs don't seem to care much about anybody else.
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 Ya , I know. - -The longer this carries on and let me make this clear I by far am not looking for him to say he is coming here, no way BUT seems like the longer he drags his out, doesn't it seem like he loves to be the center of attention ?
It has become very obvious he wants to make sure his announcement is the only one of the day. - -Is he a me, me, me guy? Beginning to look like it , not sure we would really want a player like that anyways, not sure if he would fit or become more of a bigger distraction and cost the team in the long run. - - Might be better that we DO have a Garrett in the mix after all. - -4 year player, more of a team player maybe. Not saying they are on the same level but still. -- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Agree with all of it.
JayHawkFanToo said:
Do any of the elite programs have any scholarships left? We know that KU is pretty much tapped out and I imagine most of the other major programs are as well. Wherever Duval chooses to go, there is a good chance that someone on that team will have to give up his scholarship which will result in bad chemistry. Not the best way to join a program but OADs don't seem to care much about anybody else.
Room would be made for Duval. That said he isn't coming to Lawrence.
Duke has LOTS of room I believe. Assuming Frank Jackson stays in the draft Duke has like 9 scholarship players.
That's counting the sub 300 player they just took as a practice body too. But hey, they signed some 5 stars!
JayHawkFanToo said:
Do any of the elite programs have any scholarships left? We know that KU is pretty much tapped out and I imagine most of the other major programs are as well. Wherever Duval chooses to go, there is a good chance that someone on that team will have to give up his scholarship which will result in bad chemistry. Not the best way to join a program but OADs don't seem to care much about anybody else.
Yes, Duke & Arizona have spots open. Even Kentucky could take him at this point even though they never were in it for him (which is the most shocking part of this kids entire recruitment).
There are a lot of imcomplete rosters still even in the 2nd week of May.
BeddieKU23 said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
Do any of the elite programs have any scholarships left? We know that KU is pretty much tapped out and I imagine most of the other major programs are as well. Wherever Duval chooses to go, there is a good chance that someone on that team will have to give up his scholarship which will result in bad chemistry. Not the best way to join a program but OADs don't seem to care much about anybody else.
Yes, Duke & Arizona have spots open. Even Kentucky could take him at this point even though they never were in it for him (which is the most shocking part of this kids entire recruitment).
There are a lot of imcomplete rosters still even in the 2nd week of May.
Yet people are bitching about Self, KU's recruiting etc...
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
Do any of the elite programs have any scholarships left? We know that KU is pretty much tapped out and I imagine most of the other major programs are as well. Wherever Duval chooses to go, there is a good chance that someone on that team will have to give up his scholarship which will result in bad chemistry. Not the best way to join a program but OADs don't seem to care much about anybody else.
Yes, Duke & Arizona have spots open. Even Kentucky could take him at this point even though they never were in it for him (which is the most shocking part of this kids entire recruitment).
There are a lot of imcomplete rosters still even in the 2nd week of May.
Yet people are bitching about Self, KU's recruiting etc...
I find no matter what there will be whining..
Agree. I mentioned in a thread on the shiver that I'll worry more when the on court product starts slipping.
BShark said:
Agree. I mentioned in a thread on the shiver that I'll worry more when the on court product starts slipping.
which is a good thing we aren't Duke fans right now. that's a depressing state of fanbase right now
@BeddieKU23 You know the perfect scenario for me would be, that after all this time for him to make his announcement, the perfect finish for me would be for him to announce - -somewhere other then Duke lmao.
People on their board well some, more all the time are starting to sweat nuggets. - -some saying look out for Arizona, - -others saying over sea's. - -I think IF he were to announce ANYWHERE other then Duke, which I still believe that's where he ends up but it would for sure be a Kodak moment.- - -you know what I mean , like that commercial you see where the person rattles off three or four scenario's and gives a price for that scenario - -then come to the one where they say - -Priceless? -- Ya that would for sure be Priceless lol.
Duke fans have this such attitude of greater then thou. - -Like I read some posters said - -WHY would anyone want to play for KU? - -REALLY? - -most of them have thought for so long it's a wrap - just can't emphasize enough how that would make my off season recruiting year lmao - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He'll play for Duke next year.
Zona would take him as an upgrade to the 2 PG's they have on roster as well so I guess anything can happen as we have seen with Knox.
Seton Hall signed a PG just outside the Top 150 this week to fill their 13 up so that tells you where they stand.
Baylor was never a serious factor and Self kicked the tires enough to stick around but Graham coming back sealed that for us.
Duval is the perfect example of a kid who'd benefit from going straight to the NBA now if the rules allowed. He'd save coaches all the worries of recruitment and all the hoopla he's put fans through for the past year
Good point, I think as you mentioned Self recruited all these transfers to prevent the down year. He knew that years of putting guys in the league was going to come back at some point and after this year with the graduation of Graham he's at a true turning point for the "old recruiting" methods.
Today's landscape has changed and these guys who have D-1 experience, talent, and a sit-out year are going to be better players for KU outside of the Zion/Bagley/Barrett trio. It's a gamble either way but we should be rewarded in the end
BeddieKU23 said:
Good point, I think as you mentioned Self recruited all these transfers to prevent the down year. He knew that years of putting guys in the league was going to come back at some point and after this year with the graduation of Graham he's at a true turning point for the "old recruiting" methods.
Today's landscape has changed and these guys who have D-1 experience, talent, and a sit-out year are going to be better players for KU outside of the Zion/Bagley/Barrett trio. It's a gamble either way but we should be rewarded in the end
Yep. Assuming KU lands Grimes and another guard (Carey, Dotson, whoever) it really lets Self ease in the multi-year guard instead of having to trot them out there for 30+ minutes a game.
If anyone wants a nice negative read on KU recruiting tonto (known troll, also has a separate account pretending to be a UK fan that he trolls UK fans with) put up a thread on the shiver. Just such typical tonto. KU will get no one in 2018 or 2019. Time to cancel the program @BeddieKU23
Jaylen Carey has listed top 10. - - - -Syracuse, Norte Dame, Rutgers, Miami, Florida, Seton Hall, Indiana, U Conn, Temple, & KU.
Might not be to bad of a quality 4 year player 2018. I don't know but from the list of ten, looks like at first glance might be kind of hard pulling him off the East Coast. Whaaa, like 7-10 on the Eastern third?
Only KU - -Indiana right we shall see I guess what plays out. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
jayballer54 said:
Jaylen Carey has listed top 10. - - - -Syracuse, Norte Dame, Rutgers, Miami, Florida, Seton Hall, Indiana, U Conn, Temple, & KU.
Might not be to bad of a quality 4 year player 2018. I don't know but from the list of ten, looks like at first glance might be kind of hard pulling him off the East Coast. Whaaa, like 7-10 on the Eastern third?
Only KU - -Indiana right we shall see I guess what plays out. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Mentioned him a bit back. If KU presses (and they should imo) I think he would commit. He's a top 50 talent, so he might not be a 4 year player (perhaps 3). He likes KU and Norm. Norm running point on him of course.
We will have to fight off the 2 East Schools (Uconn, Seton Hall where he's visited unofficially and who talks to him daily) and Miami at the moment. Not sure where he falls in priority list but we definitely have work to make up for him. Said he wants to play early and be in a style of play that fits him (mentioned ACC & Pac-12 for that). We'll see what happens, he's going to get more offers
@BeddieKU23 So what I'm reading between the lines also then is that I'm getting a feel that you & B shark both feel as though he will rise further up the charts current # 82? -Is he a pretty solid PG you think? - What about Syracuse - -Norte dame? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yes he's better then his current ranking and he'll rise up whenever they make their updates. There are definitely not 15 better PG's then him, even with the PG position IMO having the most depth in the entire class. He's got NBA potential down the road
He's 6'3, long and a really good athlete. He also defends which I think enhances his reputation. I think he'll end up in the 40ish area, but it all depends if he gets his team to Peach Jam and keeps performing at the level he's been at. I also think he'll get some more offers which can also influence his ranking..
He had a game recently where he went for 36 and made 6 3's so he's definitely got the ability to take a game over.
I hope we keep after him because the local schools have done their work with him early and consistently. He's been interested in KU for a while and has a good relationship with Norm which can always be a plus. With Charlie Moore on the roster we probably are not going to be as attractive to him as he wants to play early.
Syracuse just offered him after seeing him in the last session. I don't see him as a fit there. Not sure about Notre Dame although he is a program fit for them. Miami has started to go after him and he mentioned the ACC as intriguing for the style of play he wants to play in.
This was in Duke recruiting but relevant to KU.
Question - Jalen Carey
Answer - Kansas
And I consider it reliable from the one person who does have a lot of contacts within AAU
Like what I'm reading there. Outside of McCormack, doesn't seem like KU and Duke are playing much in the same pool for 18.
And ya I'd love to see KU close Carey early.
LOL if St Johns gets Reid and Muhammed.
Definitely there's some optimism with Carey right now. I also think that what AS is hearing could be the after effect of him being offered and we'll see if that changes if Carey continues to produce on the AAU circuit. I think a few more big programs will enter the discussion for him because I don't see a tremendous difference between him and the guys ranked ahead of him at the PG position.
We'll see what happens with this guy moving forward, pulling kids from the East is hard if he's not open to leaving (which he mentioned was not an issue)
Duke has kicked the tires on Grimes and Dotson (Dotson more so lately then ever). Sounds like McCormack could be Duke's to lose which sucks, he's a huge dude with some considerable upside still to him as he continues to shape his body.
And I agree it would be nice to not be up against them for some of our top targets.
Reid has a handler so if the handler wants him at ST J's, well we know how that goes down
If Grimes isn't closed I don't even...
Could live w/o Dotson though he has been hooping out lately. Grimes/Carey is an extremely good pairing. Would be looking at a guard rotation of Grimes/Moore/Carey/Garrett/Cunliffe. Fire.
Definitely seems like Duke will lock up McCormack.
We don't hear much about Grimes and with Zona, Duke and others invested in him you can never be certain he'll end up here. I think the key to him ending up at KU is Newman ballin out and going pro. We are not going to land his caliber of talent without having the spot handed to him from day-1.
Getting Charlie Moore took the pressure off getting Dotson. I expect we may back off or Dotson will see that KU has already signed someone similar to him. Which sucks because I do think Dotson is really good and have been very high on his game
Agree on the Grimes/Carey pairing, great size, athletic ability, the whole package.
Ya know, I realize still another year off BUT mercy looks like sure seems like 2019 if we play it right could be a monster year for us in recruiting. So many players we are high on or they are high on us.
Hurt - - Jeffries - - Leech - - Lawson - - Robinson Earl - - Harvey & then committed Jacobs.
Everyone of these guys we are leading - -and leading big, Example: Leech 100 % KU and not only that - -KU is the only one he shows interest as in warm - all others cool interest, -Robinson Earl the same - -KU only one of interest KU 100 % and warmer all others cool interest. Harvey the same 100% KU all others cool. - -thing is with Harvey sounds like he is planning on attending KU late night AGAIN this yr, attended last year, went to some games - o me - -that sounds like this kid wants to play here bad all we have to do is show continued interest. DJ Jeffries, list us in his top five -all including us is cool right now but could be he is just focusing in play right now no favorite at this point that I see.
Read off there too that yes we are in the lead now as we thought might happen for Chandler Lawson. - CB showing us with 71% to Memphis 29% and we know the story there. Pipeline here to Ku with the brothers so that would look good
My question becomes if we have a scenario where we have the opportunity for same type of players with not a huge gap in talent or ranking using Harvey who seems like he REALLY wants to come and we got another very talented player that wants to come - - what do we do? - -Do we shun/ignore our local talented kid for the other? - -could that not come back to bit us in the ass later? Say we ignore Robinson Earl - -Harvey - -Berry. - - should we just look the other way from local talent that can be really solid? for another player of equal or maybe some better - that's kind of touchy ground if you ask me - -could get a bad rap out of that, bad reputation locally - -so what do we do? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
The crystal ball is not to be trusted.
That said KU is very strong with Leech and JRE. Hurt I could see going many other places, like say Duke. I'll say it right now KU can't take JRE, Chandler Lawson and Matt Hurt.
In my perfect world KU gets Jacobs (duh), Harvey, Leech, JRE and Chandler Lawson. Any bigger class than that I think we need to be closer to 19 to see how many scholarships are available.
After Ayton I will never say any recruit is in the bag until they are signed, sealed, on campus... But KU is in super deep with Grimes. It would be a true shocker.
You don't ignore Harvey, JRE or Berry. You take their commitments today if they want to give them.
jayballer54 said:
Ya know, I realize still another year off BUT mercy looks like sure seems like 2019 if we play it right could be a monster year for us in recruiting. So many players we are high on or they are high on us.
Hurt - - Jeffries - - Leech - - Lawson - - Robinson Earl - - Harvey & then committed Jacobs.
Everyone of these guys we are leading - -and leading big, Example: Leech 100 % KU and not only that - -KU is the only one he shows interest as in warm - all others cool interest, -Robinson Earl the same - -KU only one of interest KU 100 % and warmer all others cool interest. Harvey the same 100% KU all others cool. - -thing is with Harvey sounds like he is planning on attending KU late night AGAIN this yr, attended last year, went to some games - o me - -that sounds like this kid wants to play here bad all we have to do is show continued interest. DJ Jeffries, list us in his top five -all including us is cool right now but could be he is just focusing in play right now no favorite at this point that I see.
Read off there too that yes we are in the lead now as we thought might happen for Chandler Lawson. - CB showing us with 71% to Memphis 29% and we know the story there. Pipeline here to Ku with the brothers so that would look good
My question becomes if we have a scenario where we have the opportunity for same type of players with not a huge gap in talent or ranking using Harvey who seems like he REALLY wants to come and we got another very talented player that wants to come - - what do we do? - -Do we shun/ignore our local talented kid for the other? - -could that not come back to bit us in the ass later? Say we ignore Robinson Earl - -Harvey - -Berry. - - should we just look the other way from local talent that can be really solid? for another player of equal or maybe some better - that's kind of touchy ground if you ask me - -could get a bad rap out of that, bad reputation locally - -so what do we do? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Robinson Earl has UNC and others after him. In the end if KU puts the effort in I do see him staying local. He's not someone you pass on, it just won't happen.
Harvey, same position has others starting to show interest but KU will have the best shot if they make him priority. As long as he continues to improve he's got a great chance of staying home.
Leech likes KU, we'll see if anything has changed with him. We got in early for him which helps.
I think Chandler Lawson is a lock. Have no idea what Jeffries will do.
Hurt I think ends up in Big-10 country, just my gut feeling at the moment. There's been a lot of movement for KU in 19
Easily Leech's first big offer, maybe his first D1 offer. I know KU offered before his SO year. He is so, so good.
BShark said:
Easily Leech's first big offer, maybe his first D1 offer. I know KU offered before his SO year. He is so, so good.
Definitely, I'm waiting to see some new video on him. Any clue what AAU team he ended up on?
Having the Lawson's has given us a heads up over others on their brothers for sure. Chances of the family moving here sound reasonably good They made mention in the LJW article about how if they moved here how hard it would be and what a ball game it would be a hot bed to see at the local high schools if the .Lawson younger brothers moved here to Lawrence.
You got Chandler who is # 34 right now - -then sounds like the youngest might be a real stud. talk about you might think to early for rankings - -BUT like they say Future 150. com has Jonathan Lawson a 6ft 5 160 lb ranked # 6 right now so we might have some talent for awhile sure can't hurt with the brothers playing here.
On a side note as they were talking about Jonathan - -they mentioned he is two slots above another local in state player to keep our eye on out of Wichita - -He is ranked # 8 in the future 150.com he is a 6'2 Pg named Daylan Jones.
So have we heard anything on him yet? I'm sure we checking him out for sure must be pretty decent - -I'm sure if it comes to it we be fighting Marsha for him. - - Anyone fill me in about him - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Well little more info. - - -1st the funny stuff. -Just read off the shiver, there was new thread about Duval , and talking about when he was announcing. - -people talking - -then Matt comes in and says - -there is a rumor going around that Duval is planning on announcing on Monday Night Raw wrestling in Philly I believe - -LMAO how funny is that? - -Welp he said his daid was working on something huge where it was something that never had been done before v- -SO there you go - -I'm getting to the point more and more every day glad he isn't coming here - -real attention seeker - -look at me.
Also red where we offered just today for the class of 2020 Greg Brown, from Austin Texas. A 6'6 SF the schools listed right now
Texas, A&M - - Calfornia - -Oklahoma - -Texas - -& KU so there you go lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
How about Kansas?
Kansas, they told me how I'm a big priority to them. They definitely want me to get to campus and come to the games. They said they play a lot of guards.
I remember that your mother also had gone there. So, that must help them a little bit.
Yeah, she's fine. She doesn't pressure me at all with Kansas. She wants me to pick the right school, pick whatever's the right fit for me. There's no pressure at all.
Looks like Emmitt Williams will be someone we can just forget about. Reading his handler is the one who put Blakeney from Louisville to LSU.. That was when Pitino started yapping about the shoe war "behind the scenes" recruiting.. Just crazy with these kids
So if we have a chance for Williams we all know ahead of time its because he's being placed there..
He was asked to explain Kentucky's pitch and did.
We will see what happens. His mom + Adidas I think will get it done for KU
Well that sucks but good to know.
Seemed like a well open interview. Usually its one-sided towards one program recruiting the player. Nothing great to say about KU, interesting to note that he was quick to say his mother's preference for KU wasn't a factor. Can never believe that, he's playing the game
Yeah Slater does good work.
As far as Grimes yeah he said good things about every school. Really, he just described the pitch of each school and UK's pitch isn't surprising one bit.
And yeah, these kids don't want to spill the beans early, even in very obvious situations. Part of it is they want other coaches to keep coming to see them, mainly for their teammates that might be fringe D1 guys.
Hey, got a question. Heard guys talking about these two pretty frequently. My question is and this is certainly because I simply don't know. - - I have heard kind seems some are kind of cool of Dotson. - -talking about how they much would rather have Grimes. I understand he is a higher ranked player - -but both are really very good players, maybe I'm not seeing something - -is there something off the court with Dotson? - - is a black sheep? I don't know simple question. - I would love either one of them - -just curious. thanks guys. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I would bet money that the staff would take Dotson's commitment today if he were willing.
@BShark Thanks. - -was just curious. - - just seen sometimes where was mentioned some wouldn't be rally that upset if we didn't land Dotson. - -This is probably clear cut question - sure of the answer on this, it' would be one or the other I'm sure - -no way BOTH would land here - -or is there? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
jayballer54 said:
Hey, got a question. Heard guys talking about these two pretty frequently. My question is and this is certainly because I simply don't know. - - I have heard kind seems some are kind of cool of Dotson. - -talking about how they much would rather have Grimes. I understand he is a higher ranked player - -but both are really very good players, maybe I'm not seeing something - -is there something off the court with Dotson? - - is a black sheep? I don't know simple question. - I would love either one of them - -just curious. thanks guys. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
When we landed Charlie Moore that took the pressure off landing multiple top guards. Moore and Dotson are similar height so the staff is probably not looking to ideally get 2 small guards. Who knows though, Dotson is playing very well this spring and making a push to be ranked higher.
Of the 2, Grimes is an NBA player in 1-2 years. He's got the size to play PG at the next level and the game as well. Grimes is capable of playing both guard positions in College which I think a lot of KU fans recognize he's the perfect fit to take Newman's spot after next season.
I think some of the local schools will push on Dotson to stay home as this thing moves forward. Duke has made him a bigger priority, although he still falls behind Jones/Garland right now on their board. NC St will push for him with all the open scholarships they have and we can bet every dollar we own Dotson is going to end up somewhere where he can start as a freshman. Charlie Moore makes that seem unlikely at KU..
Dooobie doobie dooo... :penguin:
Well looks like Tucker basically committed to Duke the second they told them he could.
@BShark Ya I think they said they offered Saturday and he commits last night something like that, He stated is was Basically Syracuse and nobody else being considered then BAM good ol rat face. - -Tucker said just made his decision harder- - - lol - - Really? -doesn't look like it must of been to hard for ya. Crazy stuff. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Yeah he ALWAYS wanted Duke. Word was he was waiting on the Duke offer. They ended up whiffing a lot so he got it.
L.J. Figueroa, a Top-100 SG (110 composite on 247) has asked out of his LOI from New Mexico St. Chose NM St over Miami, Louisville among others. He enrolled early at NM St as well. If he gets his release maybe he's an option when we find of Svi's decision next week.
@BeddieKU23 well two things about this for me. - -One since he had already enrolled and was a student then I am assuming - -wouldn't he have to sit a transfer year? - -Two - - IF SVI doesn't come back, again which you and I both seem to agree we don't think he is - -and we have that scholarship - -then really our needs are more for a BIG of some sorts more then another guard of any type I would think. - -I think our guards are in better shape then our bigs. - - Vick -- Preston - -I think Whitman can probably play 4 OR 5 - Lightfoot if necessary . Kind of thin at the 5.
Our Backcourt - -Graham -- Newman - - Garrett - Cunliffe at mid semester - -as far as that goes Vick could probably slide and play some 2 need be for spot minutes. - -Not just really sure a fill of the Scholarship we needs more in the Backcourt compared to our front line especially at the 5 spot. - -That's just me. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 well two things about this for me. - -One since he had already enrolled and was a student then I am assuming - -wouldn't he have to sit a transfer year? - -Two - - IF SVI doesn't come back, again which you and I both seem to agree we don't think he is - -and we have that scholarship - -then really our needs are more for a BIG of some sorts more then another guard of any type I would think. - -I think our guards are in better shape then our bigs. - - Vick -- Preston - -I think Whitman can probably play 4 OR 5 - Lightfoot if necessary . Kind of thin at the 5.
Our Backcourt - -Graham -- Newman - - Garrett - Cunliffe at mid semester - -as far as that goes Vick could probably slide and play some 2 need be for spot minutes. - -Not just really sure a fill of the Scholarship we needs more in the Backcourt compared to our front line especially at the 5 spot. - -That's just me. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
I don't think he'd have to sit because he never played a minute and there was a coaching change which is the reason for him backing off his pledge. I'm assuming he'd be free to play this upcoming season seems how he was a 2017 recruit that most likely red-shirted the spring semester to get a leg up for the fall. Kind of an odd situation but I do think he'd be able to play wherever. Maybe it would be a situation where he's eligible after fall semester (meaning he'd red-shirted a full year).
With that last scholarship if its not Svi I don't know what is the most ideal addition to the team. We have 4 posts and until December we only have 4 guards eligible. I'm not sure Self wants to chance having just 4 eligible guards for 1/3 of the season. I know we are not extremely deep up front either. Tough call, that's the risk of getting Charlie Moore.
BeddieKU23 said:
L.J. Figueroa, a Top-100 SG (110 composite on 247) has asked out of his LOI from New Mexico St. Chose NM St over Miami, Louisville among others. He enrolled early at NM St as well. If he gets his release maybe he's an option when we find of Svi's decision next week.
Idk we have a lot of wings already. Not sure how he would fit into the equation.