🏀 KuBuckets Archive

They lose so many regular season games they shouldn't. He gets routinely overrated due to fortuitous tournament runs.

Oh oh oh...please please do not underestimate the Izzo. He's one of, if not, the best NCAA tourney coaches in the league. I don't care what they do in their conference. But he is proven in the tourney. His teams always go deep. Also, there are other teams that are the same as MSU. Don't sleep on him, and MSU. I respect Izzo, and if something ever happened to Self, I would have no problem KU getting Izzo. Something tells me you wouldn't either. Besides, this is a very inconsistent year for many top teams.

In fact, regardless of what happens to KU, I have MSU as one of my F4 teams. I see Nova as another at this point. But the other two are wide open. WVU is making a great argument. KU has some work to do if they want to be in this convo.

Last two years he hasn't even made the S16. He has plenty of early exits, people just don't remember them.

I would not want Izzo, he is a lazy recruiter. He would struggle even more at KS as he wouldn't have Michigan talent to fall back on.

He is still a really good coach, I just think he is pretty overrated.

A coach who goes to 7 final fours in 21 years can't be overrated in my estimation. Ya, maybe he had fortuitous brackets, maybe he didn't Look what Kansas has done with their fortuitous brackets in the same time period? Izzo is a top 5 coach in the Nation.

Bill Self is the best regular season coach if you look at conference championships and wins. Tom Izzo is one of the best tournament coaches, he only has the one NC but 7 final fours in coaching since 95 while coach K has 12 but has been coaching since 1975.

Izzo gets blown out a lot in FFs too. Generally his teams are good in close tournament games though.

BShark said:

They lose so many regular season games they shouldn't. He gets routinely overrated due to fortuitous tournament runs.

Correction: fortuitous tournament whistles!

Nah, Izzo loses in the semifinal. Who needs the Bill Self choke one round further?

(sarcasm font)

In an interview this Fall, Coach Self named Tom Izzo and Bob Huggins as the two most challenging coaches he faces.

I'm not a big fan of Izzo. Yet I have to hand it to him. He has had Coach's and KU's number.

DoubleDD said:

I'm not a big fan of Izzo. Yet I have to hand it to him. He has had Coach's and KU's number.

Rock paper scissors.

Izzo Roy Self.

Izzo usually loses several games in the regular season he shouldn't......more than his share. But I think he gears his team for the Dance. Yes.....he has had his share of tourney upsets.......everyone has. But he gets his team to the final four. It feels like his team this year will peak at the right time.
I never count him out.

Izzo is simply not overrated sorry. Ya wanna say he underperforms regular season? Perhaps. But perhaps it's taking some lumps to prepare for the post season and get his team closer to it's ceiling. Definitely a top 5 coach in the country.

Another fun stat. Izzo is 47-19 in the tournament. Self is 42-18. Not that far off honestly. Though this year I would expect MSU to have a deeper run.

@BShark great point. And to me it's alot like this season for the team. It's not what were used to okay... We all know that. But it would only take just a lil bit of overall tweak in the numbers to make us better. Enough better to make a deep run. Increase the rebounding and defensive efficiency buy just a lil each game from now til March. Increase the ft numbers just a lil each day... If Izzo had 2 less FF's and Self had 2 more... Things that could've easily happened in that time span and I hope Self's numbers as far as the deeper run increase over the next 5-10. His ability to adapt to the game and improve upon the program over time with some recruiting wins I believe can make CS the absolute greatest coach in KU history. It is very possible

2011 is still the worst for me that was a title on a platter.

Rebounding is the biggest issue for this team if they figure it out (Silvio gets a few more minutes by March maybe?) then that is a huge weakness solved.

@BShark that one hurt for certain. I'm still stuck on 09-10 also... Last year after hammering Purdue I felt we were the favorite. 11-12 team I would have personally bet against after the first weekend. Self is poised to improve upon his tournament record. Even if it isnt a magic that happens this season.

I personally love coach Izzo. Humble, high character, great guy. I think everyone would feel comfortable sending their son to play for him.

@BShark

Izzo has been coaching Division 1 for 23 years and Coach Self for 25; however, all of 23 years of a Izzo were/are at MSU where he was promoted after being an Assistant Coach while Coach Self spent 7 years at Oral Roberts and Tulsa before joining Illinois. In short, Izzo has a 6 year advantage at major programs so, given the time differential, Coach Self’s record is probably better.

HighEliteMajor said:

I personally love coach Izzo. Humble, high character, great guy. I think everyone would feel comfortable sending their son to play for him.

Agreed!

I think highly of izzo.

His team this year is coasting right now. Remember it's all soph and freshman doing the heavy lifting. They have a few upperclassmen that play but they don't decide outcomes of games for them. Point being they are very young, really talented and as always izzo will find a way to get them going again. It is nice to know that a team projected to be one of the title favorites is vulnerable. I actually think KU matches up well vs MSU if they meet in March. This isn't the typical izzo tough squad, it's got guys who are thinking next level

Coach Izzo must be doing something right? A player as talented as Bridges does not stay if the climate isn't great. I would not say he is overrated. 7 Final Fours is a great accomplishment. Lots of outstanding student athletes want to play for him and he has turned down offers from the NBA. He is clearly one of the best coaches in college basketball.

HighEliteMajor said:

I personally love coach Izzo. Humble, high character, great guy. I think everyone would feel comfortable sending their son to play for him.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with this. He does it the right way.

‘97 was the biggest heartbreak for me. Then ‘16, then ‘11. The team in ‘11 had an easy bracket, but I just wasn’t as emotionally attached to those teams. I didn’t feel like the Morri would be good role models for my kids.

I was satisfied in ‘12, but that’s the team if I could give a ‘ship to I would. They earned it.

[@dylans said he would have given the championship, if he could, to the 2012 team.] "They earned it."

I started posting that I felt that way about '03 and last year, too, but then I realized that I was just wishing my favorite players could have won, and that unfortunately, they definitely didn't earn it. :frowning2:

coughing noises

changes thread title

cough

Like he is going to be fired right? He should be.

@BShark What are you talking about?

wissox said:

@BShark What are you talking about?

Covering up rape.

It's much much worse for their football program. D'Antonio could honestly go to jail.

Hadn't heard that. Is this related to that Dr.? Badgers play there tonight. Bo won 16 of 28 games against Izzo btw.

Check ESPN. Sickening

wissox said:

Hadn't heard that. Is this related to that Dr.? Badgers play there tonight. Bo won 16 of 28 games against Izzo btw.

This is separate from that. There were two instances under Izzo. One was a rape where no charges were filed so the woman sued the university. 16 cases of sexual assault in 10 years in the football program. Most went unreported.

Just looked at ESPN, disgusting.

Holy crap. How can this university survive this. This is unreal

RUH ROH - -is right. - - even UGLIER then it is now. - - So how much is Izzo involved in this mess. - he said the statement that he would retire at the end of the season is totally false. -- hmmmmm. just a really bad situation for College sports.

I mean you have this situation at Baylor and that whole fiasco - -and now this -- what the hell is going on at these campuses ? - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Hawk8086 said:

Izzo usually loses several games in the regular season he shouldn't......more than his share. But I think he gears his team for the Dance. Yes.....he has had his share of tourney upsets.......everyone has. But he gets his team to the final four. It feels like his team this year will peak at the right time.
I never count him out.

Izzo coaches for the tourney. He is a prime example of a coach that has good losses leading to the big dance.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2756210-mark-emmert-was-made-aware-of-michigan-state-sexual-assault-reports-in-2010?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national ↗

VOMIT.

"one of which admitted to raping the victim, neither man was charged criminally or even disciplined by the school."

"I'm obviously hoping for a turnaround. I mean, it's kind of a big target on our back right now. I just kinda wanna be a supporter, the best that I can," Leveon Bell said. "And I want Michigan State to be the top of the class -- basketball, football, all that, all athletics -- make things go the right way. This can kinda go down the line, and people kinda forget about it because we did a lot of positive things more so than negative things coming out of the university."

That is part of the problem. You can’t forget or it will happen again. It happened, own it and figure out how to become better because it happened. Don’t bury your head in the sand.

Payne in the E:60 pretty much confirmed Appling raped that girl...

BShark said:

Payne in the E:60 pretty much confirmed Appling raped that girl...

wow

UConn is also under investigation by the NCAA, they just don’t learn.

Man I think Michigan State could be in some real trouble, I think Izzo could even be in some real trouble -he really got grilled by a female reporter after the game yesterday. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

SUP

@Jayballer54 missed that.

The hits keep coming...

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2018/04/09/michigan-state-basketball-rape/500624002/ ↗

I know that I would want Self to step down or be fired for something like this. There are more important things than basketball.

@BShark 🤮🙈💩

@Kcmatt7 there is no way I think Izzo should retain his job. - you talk about a big time cover up/scandal - -this smells big time he should resign immediately - his is just total BS - time after time with these programs. - You can't get me to believe he knows NOTHING on anything? - -come on - I was born at night but I wasn't born last night. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Wow. anyone have any source as to the players names?

Well it is 3 of 13 guys on the 2015 FF team I believe.

I've always liked Izzo. He's old school, just like me. Not sure if that's a positive today or not. lol

@approxinfinity There is legal action and the players are not named in the legal document according to USAToday article:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/04/09/lawsuit-three-michigan-state-basketball-players-raped-woman-2015/501054002/ ↗

@drgnslayr ummmm probably not -- -not today lol

@Gorilla Keeping the alleged perps' names under wraps for now is an excellent way to enhance a settlement. If I am the defense, I settle before discovery gets served, especially requests for admissions that could divulge those names.

Hate to see it...

🐦 View Tweet

Records obtained by ESPN show that Tom Izzo contacted a witness in a 2017 investigation of criminal sexual conduct involving a basketball player before the witness had discussed the incident with police or school investigators.

@BShark said in Izzo: RUH-ROH:

Hate to see it...

🐦 View Tweet

Records obtained by ESPN show that Tom Izzo contacted a witness in a 2017 investigation of criminal sexual conduct involving a basketball player before the witness had discussed the incident with police or school investigators.

Well ol Izzy isn't squeaky clean himself doesn't surprise me. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28982980/michigan-state-basketball-coach-tom-izzo-sought-witness-2017-criminal-investigation-player ↗

So @mayjay , is this witness tampering?

@dylans Since investigators from the police and the Title IX office knew really quickly about it, and the reports say nothing regarding any problems with the contents of Smith's statement, it is hard to say any tampering occurred. Izzo certainly violated the University policy against investigating. The report finding nothing wrong because of his prior relationship with the Smiths is just stupid.

The whole thing is a model of how not to learn from Syracuse's mess, and how to botch an investigation in the most likely way to create the worst possible public image. Even if the ultimate resolution was correct, the hurried approach, the failure to get the missing witness, and the reprehensible failure to show any concern for the complainant call into question the sincerity of the effort. She actually showed more concern for the long-term consequences for her assailant (by agreeing to charges letting him not register as a sex offender) than did the school that was obliged to protect her.

A few notes: It is striking that the police found enough to bring criminal charges with sufficient evidence to enable a guilty plea. How did the school find nothing when their proceeding has a lesser burden of proof? And how did the the investigation not get reopened after the guilty plea?

The article, by the way, is one of the poorest examples of allegedly expositive writing I have ever seen. If anyone can figure out a firm chronology of events without making their own flow chart, they have a better ability at verbal jigsaws than I do.

Finally, Engler should be sent to outer Siberia.

Addendum: I reread my post and realize that the article did discuss why the investigation was not reopened. But I am not buying the "policy-prevented-it" claim--they could have reopened upon finding that Washington pled guilty after lying when he denied it in the Title IX. Virtually all forums have inherent authority to determine if they were duped.

Clearly and simply, a pack of assholes running the place.