Let's stop being dumb!
Good start. LOL
We're going to have to be tougher and crisper with the ball
Starting exactly how I thought it would.
Bwag said:
We're going to have to be tougher and crisper with the ball
I know...I'm a genius
A couple buckets, thats alright. Let's get some stops.
Grimes ainât ready for this
Oh boy
Step to the ball
Shut em up with a free-throw LOL
Guard them
Nice free throw
And...Captain Obvious says: Make our FT's
Defense is a luxury we can't not afford.
How about we guard their best offensive player
Nice guarding by Vick. He just stood there
BeddieKU23 said:
Nice guarding by Vick. He just stood there
No, he took a half-hearted stroll in his general direction
Dotson is my Hawk to Rock. Steady us Devon!
Grimes lost. 21 games of it
Was Wiggins half court bankshot against the Kitties?
Bank is open
Agbaji seriously stop trying to take his wallet
Agbaji, lets goooooo
Wow we are make them look great offensively
Vick should just find the bus
Grimes and Vick combo on D is not gonna be good tonight.
Grimes
Grimes Hasn't thrown a decent pass yet.
Can't dribble or catch either
If we weren't pissing away possessions leading to run outs we'd be alright.
Like I said Grimes. Miss Garrett.
Grimes is a defenders dream
THE BANK'S OPEN!!!!
Gonna be one of them nights again. Just a poor team away from home
Grimes starts to drive then pauses, let the defender get back in position.
Protect the damn ball
@approxinfinity true
This start is especially bad since KState doesn't offense very well.
Its already over folks, KSU is playing hard, we are not. It's that damn simple, play hard or go home!
We're going to miss Garrett in this one more than I expected
This team isnât good enough to not value the ball
@kjayhawks geez
kjayhawks said:
Its already over folks, KSU is playing hard, we are not. It's that damn simple, play hard or go home!
Lets see what we look like after this timeout.
@kjayhawks pump them up coach
I think that's 3 times already for the F-KU chant. Keep it classy Silo Tech!
@Texas-Hawk-10 low class is still classy, just ask a KSU'er
Moore and MItch? Ok, wtf.
Oh my gosh
Good D!
Charlie's a passer, not a dribbler.
Yay Mitch! An actual basket
Mitch looking beefy? Nice board.
His one skill?
Well grimes and Vick were bad. Too few good options sometimes.
dafuqq was that ref?
Sucked
approxinfinity said:
Mitch looking beefy? Nice board.
and put back
Pack it up. Times up
Pathetic call
What was that?!?
and the refs start to make their presence known
OK Charlie! In the flow. Steal and pass! Works!
Nice rebound Lawson, NOT
Devon so good.
lets go here
I think mitch has all our rebounds
Literally zero effort to rebound
This team is really missing Marcus
.... 3 minutes later... Charlie and Mitch still deserving to be in there... dig it!
DanR said:
I think mitch has all our rebounds
Both of them.
BeddieKU23 said:
Literally zero effort to rebound
Not sure if the shot was so bad it caught us flat footed, but blocking out would have been helpful
I don't think Weber prerpped against a zone
steady the ship...and lets take it to them from here
Dotson is the hero we need!
Alright
HA HA
Playing harder now, if u gave up, go home
I like this
Game of runs
KStates 3 ball against zone not quite as good as against m2m...it is one of their weaknesses.
Back in the game.
Mitch getting us second chances
When @drgnslayr made a comment about how this moment when Devonte talked to the team is the moment that Devon starts leading this team, it felt very right. I think he's onto something. This is Devon's world, and the Kitties are just living in it.
Charlie and Mitch helped settle things down, who'd have thunk it.
Solid minutes for mitch
NBA guys don't know crap about us. All about if they can play in nba
zone was a good call l, if we can rebound outta it.
Chauncey play in AFH?
You'd think Billups could at least talk about playing in the big 12.
@Texas-Hawk-10 that's half as many as I've said here in my couch
Yeah ,he played for Colorado when they were B12 , @Crimsonorblue22
Anything is better then Fran talking about liberace's plan to beat KU for 40 minutes
@approxinfinity were they even ever big 8?
Thatâs awful. Canât get a shot out of a timeout and give up and and 1.
Grimes is the worst defender I've seen
BeddieKU23 said:
Grimes is the worst defender I've seen
Brannen Greene says hi.
Grimes is terrible
what...that should either be on the floor or not anything
Still better then grimes
Texas Hawk 10 said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Still better then grimes
No he wasn't.
At least he could shoot
Sophomore Grimes will be better than sophomore Brannen, I hope. Much much less weed.
HELL YES MITCH!
approxinfinity said:
Bwag said:
@approxinfinity were they even ever big 8?
ahh yep you're right
I think we rented out Allen Field House West to them for their other games...
Lightfoot!
Dedric that was garbage man.
Back to Curse of Oak Island........
Crap - the State of the Union would be better than this garbage
Deric was hacked. Make up call on the other end
Ochai playing young
Mitch has 6 points and 5 boards in 7 minutes.
Agbaji looking like a freshman who just joined the team.
BeddieKU23 said:
Grimes is the worst defender I've seen
Here's you're original comment I responded to. You said nothing about offense. So again, Brannen Greene was worse defender than Grimes.
Self is going to have to go back to Vick
Chuck
turnovers
nonononono yess CHuck
Whatever we think this offense is it dont work. Spend the entire possession going side to side 30 feet from the hoop
If we keep it single digits before half we lucky
Oh my
Lose to every other team in the conference - BUT NOT TO K-FRICKING-STATE!
CHUCK
That was sick agbaji
If Charlie Moore is the Kittie Killer I'm ok with that :joy:
Quick hands chuck
nice little dish there too. WHO IS THIS CHARLIE GUY?
What a great play by Moore to agbaji
I believe he goes by Charles now.
Better than grimes or vick
Moore playing... well?
approxinfinity said:
If Charlie Moore is the Kittie Killer I'm ok with that :joy:
Bottle him up for 2 games a yr
Prince Charles
Oh you mean Charles Moore..
lolol
No Vick for the last 7 minutes. Glad self saw him check out
The artist formerly known as Chuck.
Moore needs to run the show tonight and keep Dotson off the ball as much as possible to limit turnovers and use Dotson's speed and quickness to get him going downhill.
Charles Moorentgomery Floorburns
If chuck gets those steals......
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Charles Moorentgomery Floorburns
Haha
Cha Cha GaMoore
Ochai!! Hopefully that gets some juice going, continuing solidness from Moore and Lightfoot.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Grimes is the worst defender I've seen
Here's you're original comment I responded to. You said nothing about offense. So again, Brannen Greene was worse defender than Grimes.
Hmmmmm.....could Greene actually ever have been considered a defender?
Were u holding your breath on that fast break?
You guys get the Taco Johns commercial? I love it.
DanR said:
You guys get the Taco Johns commercial? I love it.
sadly no
DanR said:
You guys get the Taco Johns commercial? I love it.
Nope, laser x
the real charlie finally shows up....
Wth...
Hi energy drink kJ
Refs need to check the rule book
mayjay said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Grimes is the worst defender I've seen
Here's you're original comment I responded to. You said nothing about offense. So again, Brannen Greene was worse defender than Grimes.
Hmmmmm.....could Greene actually ever have been considered a defender?
like Josh Jackson, he might be known to kick defender.
sorry, dad jokes.
What a pathetic call on grimes
Grimes
mayjay said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Grimes is the worst defender I've seen
Here's you're original comment I responded to. You said nothing about offense. So again, Brannen Greene was worse defender than Grimes.
Hmmmmm.....could Greene actually ever have been considered a defender?
No, pretty sure it took until late sophomore year or junior year to record his first steal.
I've seen more charge calls than I've seen in a week in the NBA (ONE OF THE ANNOUNCERS)
these dummass NBA guys don't know which team is which
@nuleafjhawk lol
He forgot to say ON KU
Crossover dumb
nuleafjhawk said:
I've seen more charge calls than I've seen in a week in the NBA (ONE OF THE ANNOUNCERS)
You can go a week of college ball as well and not see this many as well.
Don't think Chuck likes katz
Stop dribbling, Grimes.
Refs are blind
Was there a foul there? Wasnt he 3 feet away?
Relax Q
Is that 4 turnovers for Grimes?
Wade playing like a junior who just joined the team.
Vick on the bench for a long while
approxinfinity said:
Was there a foul there? Wasnt he 3 feet away?
Maybe not, but Agbaji put himself in a bad spot by reaching though.
There is NO WAY the refs let KU win this game. They all want the streak to end. To our "rival" . Make me puke.
What?
See what I mean? Travel my butt
NO WAY Dedric left his feet
kjayhawks said:
Vick on the bench for a long while
These guys are getting it done. :thumbsup:
Ohhhh KJ... Was that 3.5 steps, a held ball and a charge?
Lol that ref on that side literally cant see
travel?
He wasn't set. Good god.
These refs are trash both ways
This game should be sponsored by Capital One with all these charges.
Feed the man
kjayhawks said:
Vick on the bench for a long while
He can stay there
@approxinfinity LOL
See charlie, when you look AT the basket, you have a chance.
I would have gotten at least 1 technical already
Woah Charlie.
Awful foul though.
Dude, that Charlie Moore shot was... actually.. beautiful form. high point elevation. wow.
Moore playing very good so far.
What is Mitch doing?!
Wow are u serious
Mitch!
Lol
Gotta get Dedric going.
Charlie looks like he's been lifting too. these guys look like they've been kicking their asses in the gym after those losses.
WHAT??? A FOUL ON K-STATE???
Bruce we up, don't hurt your neck
@nuleafjhawk glad u r here
Lets stretch this to 2 or 3 possessions. Shockedogon of Glum.
6 charges, wow!
Late comment, but that charge call on KJ was so bad.
I'm a little behind, but I just saw the worst charge call in the history of all basketball.
Weird game, eh?
@Texas-Hawk-10 plus 1 for us?
I'm impressed with our poise since that first time out @approxinfinity you called it
@Crinsonorblue22 Thanks. Oak Island was boring.
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Late comment, but that charge call on KJ was so bad.
you mean KJ's play was 3 kinds of awful or the call should have been in his favor?
Grimes charges looked bad too
@approxinfinity I mean that was an obvious blocking foul. The KState player was slipping and shuffling his feet.
BeddieKU23 said:
I'm impressed with our poise since that first time out @approxinfinity you called it
Agbaji the only guy looking a little struck by the atmosophere still after that TO, true.
Wade wasn't set on his
We look decent when k st goes 7 minutes without scoring. They are building some nice brick houses
nuleafjhawk said:
WHAT??? A FOUL ON K-STATE???
BOOOOO
I'm surprised he's in w/2 fouls
approxinfinity said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I'm impressed with our poise since that first time out @approxinfinity you called it
Agbaji the only guy looking a little struck by the atmosophere still after that TO, true.
Hes in foul trouble as well.
@Crimsonorblue22 I believe they've called 3 apiece.
feed the beast... feed charlie...
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
@approxinfinity I mean that was an obvious blocking foul. The KState player was slipping and shuffling his feet.
I guess you're probably right but when you swing the ball slowly from side to side at waist level while taking 3.5 plodding steps towards the rim amidst 3 defenders you resemble a mack truck backing up more than a competent offensive player.
Plenty of open 10 foot shots for Wade, but those are tough
Crimsonorblue22 said:
I'm surprised he's in w/2 fouls
Cant play Vick tonight. Kid left his brain in Lawrence again
I don't get the sign?
Ugly media bench there
Wade again sloppy.
It's the girls birthday, I guess. Not sharing her cake.
He just blew out her candles
Gotta make that Dedric
Who was that foul on, where's dchawker?
Dedric making a so so defensive player in Wade look decent
State finally gets off 26
Don't want Wade ever getting comfortable.
Good FT defense
Was that Mitch or Charles' fault?
I might have to slo-mo that charlie twirl move
Mitch don't know where chuck is going
Hard screen by Mitch on Charles
@Crimsonorblue22 it means "I am stupid"
Mitch, come on man!
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Mitch don't know where chuck is going
Makes 2 of them and thousands of us.
Nice ball movement.
Hit those damn layups
Waste of mic there
Can our guy foul our own guy? I'd trade a foul on mitch there for 2 FT's for Charlie
Sorry, Iove me some Chauncey from his time in Detroit, he gets a pass on rambling.
My girl
Huge turn of events there
This blind spin move is not wokring Dedric.
Where was someone cutting into the midddle so we didn't have to try and drive it into that area
There will always be a double team waiting on the spin.
We suck at closing out halfâs and gsmes
We should be up 10, but we could be down 10.
Ya. Feel like we could have went in up 8-10
Better with someone else driving and kicking to Dedric like a couple possessions ago.
@approxinfinity The behind the back was as shockingly successful as it was entirely unnecessary.
Right where I wanted us. I predict a 50-27 second half for us.
Van Gundry was waste of mic
I'll take a halftime lead after that start.
12 turnovers needs to not happen in half 2
Mood in the Octagon of Impending Doom seems subdued
Octagon of Dumb
After first 4 minutes, solid B+
DanR said:
Mood in the Octagon of Impending Doom seems subdued
Maybe no one else is going to that kid's party either.
Back to the darn driving offense with really no real angles or approach...just drive it into the heart of the defense and throw up a prayer
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
12 turnovers needs to not happen in half 2
A lot of those were offensive fouls. Strangely prolific in this game.
excellent first half.
tundrahok said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
12 turnovers needs to not happen in half 2
A lot of those were offensive fouls. Strangely prolific in this game.
Officials are probably Duke fans.
When I saw Van Gundy announcing, I thought it was Jeff. Jeff is a very good and entertaining analyst. I don't think Billups does commentary very often which would explain why he's so awkward. I think he's usually a studio guy.
Van Gundy is just there for the buffet. Right now he's wandering around saying, "There IS a buffet, right?'
DanR said:
Van Gundy is just there for the buffet. Right now he's wandering around saying, "There IS a buffet, right?'
Trough.
It's being called one of the most bizarre events in broadcast history tonight. The announcers have not mentioned Duke even once.
Where I work there is me and one other KU fan. Yes, two winners in the whole company. I see and hear purple all day every day. Losing to them would make me puke.
I'm just happy we have a lead after the start, I thought we was gonna get ran out of the building. If we can continue to guard and stop with the TOs we will be in good shape. If we stay in the zone, be careful of the Lob because it's there almost everytime. Hopefully Vick is waking up as we are speaking.
Van Gutdy needs a hotdog immediately.
Tre Jones has terrible shooting form.
@KirkIsMyHinrich #dead
Those guys are so much better than frannie, it's ridiculous. no agendas ...they're complimenting ku, and i certainly remember us facing chauncey back in the day...
Hold on Wisox, DUKE HILGHLIGHTS for the entire halftime.
KUSTEVE said:
Those guys are so much better than frannie, it's ridiculous. no agendas ...they're complimenting ku, and i certainly remember us facing chauncey back in the day...
:100:
I hear there's a parody newspaper speech tonight. The state of The Onion.
i'm not a sotu kinda guy. i have avoided watching them for decades...
Hope Ty Jerome is good to go against Duke. F---- DUKE!
wissox said:
It's being called one of the most bizarre events in broadcast history tonight. The announcers have not mentioned Duke even once.
Duke vs Virginia...anyone think ESPN announcers will actually orgasm on the air...?
I'm really glad we don't get Dakich doing our games very often. Tonight during the great Illini win over MSU Dakich says "there's a three team race in the BIG, MSU, Purdue, and Michigan, and maybe Wisconsin" Wisconsin is currently tied for 2nd with MSU, one game back.
Does Virginia have a chance??? WHO GIVES A RAT"S ASS....THIS IS KU BB... ya jerks...
I think I remember Chauncey scoring like 40 points in at least one game in AFH West. And lost. He seems to have blocked his college playing days from his mind, which I don't blame him for, because those CU teams were pretty bad.
All KU fans - the majority of the first half was my fault. Imagine my horror when I noticed I was sitting on the love seat, not the sofa. The problem Has been remedied.
approxinfinity said:
mayjay said:
@KUSTEVE I am always shocked how long some guys have been out of college bb...old, old, I feel old. Then I see the grade school kids in the stands, and feel even older.
Grab a beer for me too while you're up?
I mixed a Manhattan and we took the lead...
wissox said:
I'm really glad we don't get Dakich doing our games very often. Tonight during the great Illini win over MSU Dakich says "there's a three team race in the BIG, MSU, Purdue, and Michigan, and maybe Wisconsin" Wisconsin is currently tied for 2nd with MSU, one game back.
Well, he is regular in that conference and they also can't count to 10, so what do you expect? Not that we can talk...
James putting on weight or is it the purple Lakers uniform? Looking very Barneyesque.
we beat silo tech because Charlie finally came to play, our our long lost Lightfoot comes out of cryogenics, and kicks ass. That's the narrative so far, right? We have a double Lazarus effect going on...
Bruce Weber before the game: WE ARE ABSOLUTELY PREPARED FOR THE ZONE WHAT A PREPOSTEROUS QUESTION!!!
Bruce Weber during the game:
Wow, NCState has scored 96 against UNC tonight, a few days after scoring 24. Of course they gave up 113. Something tells me our game isn't going to end 113 to 96 tonight, although that would be quite exciting.
KUSTEVE said:
we beat silo tech because Charlie finally came to play, our our long lost Lightfoot comes out of cryogenics, and kicks ass. That's the narrative so far, right? We have a double Lazarus effect going on...
Give em the ol' Double Mickelson!
@nuleafjhawk I appreciate a man that admits his faults, now don't do it again.
Some help from some un-expected sources - - Mitch nice 1st half - - like 6 rebounds - -5-6 points - - Charlie 2-2 3pt shots - -6 points - - - - a steals we need that
Baylor's Irish Cream?
I'm so happy for Mitch, he works so hard and is such a good dude, hopefully he can keep it up.
Van Gundy in post-snack stupor.
Where were these versions of these guys before today? Can we get Devonte to come back once a week?
DanR said:
I think I remember Chauncey scoring like 40 points in at least one game in AFH West. And lost. He seems to have blocked his college playing days from his mind, which I don't blame him for, because those CU teams were pretty bad.
Colorado finished 2nd in the Big 12 in Billups senior year.
Did Lightfoot live in KS as a kid?
@tundrahok I think jayballer knew his family.
tundrahok said:
Did Lightfoot live in KS as a kid?
Born in KC, moved to Arizona as a little kid.
Sciambi usually paired with Bill Walton. I guess Walton didn't want to travel to the little apple in February.
tundrahok said:
Did Lightfoot live in KS as a kid?
Born Mitchell Marion Lightfoot in Kansas City, Missouri ... Son of Matt and Rhonda Lightfoot ⌠Has two younger brothers, Miles and Max, and a younger sister, Rhyann ... Moved from Kansas City to Tucson, Arizona, when he was five years old.
There's a quote I never thought I'd hear:
Charlie Moore and Mitch Lightfoot have been the most valuable players on the court for Kansas
Wade got blocked by the rim
Vick has 2 fouls?
Vick must be on the bus
THATS SIR CHARLES TO YOU!
DanR said:
Sciambi usually paired with Bill Walton. I guess Walton didn't want to travel to the little apple in February.
Sciambi does a lot of games with Fran as well.
@Texas-Hawk-10 Thanks, I thought so but couldn't remember. Kansas kids usually get up for this game.
wissox said:
Wade got blocked by the rim
The only defender we have that can get that high.
AND Grimes was right there for the putback. Dig it.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Vick has 2 fouls?
No. He has 0
Wade just jumped with the ball and then came down with it and then scored.
Announcer said that's why he might b sitting
This is uglier than the first half
Vick off the hot seat.
Alright LV. In the flow dude, in the flow.
So many bad turnovers
Dotson not starting the half well.
Don't let Wade get set shots.
I know I had Charlie as my hawk to rock, I just forgot to click post.
@Texas-Hawk-10 trying to do it all right now
Duh!
Surprised they didn't call Dotson for a charge
That was last year dude
Good D
Back to the loveseat
Good pass
Vick with the ole defense.
Grimes is NOT a physical guard. But he should be.
I call that turnstile defense.
crap call
Grimes is to basketball player as Stay Puff Marshmallow Man is to ghost.
@approxinfinity Do you mean ghostbusters?
yes, I mean he looks beefy, but he's soft.
approxinfinity said:
yes, I mean he looks beefy, but he's soft.
Put him in the ring for a round or two with Hudy?
approxinfinity said:
yes, I mean he looks beefy, but he's soft.
And slow. The lack of defensive effort continues to get a slide
This looks like a game between two teams that exit the tournament early.
Come on guys, you're letting them in it
Bwag said:
approxinfinity said:
yes, I mean he looks beefy, but he's soft.
Put him in the ring for a round or two with Hudy?
If Hudy has a deathmatch cage with flames, spikes and poisonous snakes around the periphery, I think that might help him.
the + / - when Vick is on the floor must have a ginormous spread. When he hits 3s it is way positive. The rest of the time, it is way negative.
Public service announcement: SOTU still going on.
what's that called? bimodal?
I've heard people say he needs to slim down, get quicker
How was that not a foul on Wade?
Dedric is expending all his energy bracing for impact then demonstratively pleading for a foul.
Foul?
The turnovers are absolutely going to give me a coronary.
We look so bad on offense all of a sudden.
16 turnovers, that's just pathetic
@kjayhawks I think the length is just to make Pelosi suffer for delaying it.
bskeet said:
The turnovers are absolutely going to give me a coronary.
KSU is good defensively but this is absurd.
Because the refs have determined that the streak is over
wissox said:
We look so bad on offense all of a sudden.
LV?
@approxinfinity lv must go
Whatever we adjusted at halftime... Dont
If Vick isn't hitting, he is a liability.
Dean hitting another set shot.
Nothing better then watching Vick play 1 on 1 and miss
Dedric canât finish with any kind of contact
We have 3 points in 5+ minutes (not counting the end of the first half)
Can we just put the guys who did sh-- right back in?
Guarding empty space
Gotta pull Vick.
catch under basket. Dribble out to 3 point. Shoot. Miss. No rebound (because everyone is wondering, "did that just happen?")
Better wake up fellas or it's gonna get ugly
@approxinfinity It could be LV, took me a minute to understand what LV was!
I 2nd that, game getting away
Charlie and Mitch earned the right to finish until proven otherwise.
I feel like they are a play or 2 from blowing this wide open.
Haven't done squat since Vick went in
I have a bad feeling that this one's over.
I know what it is. You have to actually come out if the locker room after halftime... Ya that's it
Wait a minute. Not over fellas.
Looks like it. Should know at about the under 8 if this is how its going
Moore has absolutely been better than Vick this game on both ends. The zone helps minimize Charlie's defensive failings.
We needed to keep Wade on his heels. The guys that were producing are now cold. Now we got a headcase back in the equation in LV.
wissox said:
We look so bad on offense all of a sudden.
Any coincidence it happened when Vick checked in for Moore, lol?
It's not over, but we have to play defense, rebound and stop the turnovers.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
wissox said:
We look so bad on offense all of a sudden.
Any coincidence it happened when Vick checked in for Moore, lol?
Vick's plus/minus is -16 for the record.
Agbaji was hit.
argh.
Where's teh foul?
Garbage. Oh well. Back to AFH soon.
Who got blamed for that no foul?
Answer: On the other end of the court.
I like those fake fouls
BShark said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
wissox said:
We look so bad on offense all of a sudden.
Any coincidence it happened when Vick checked in for Moore, lol?
Vick's plus/minus is -16 for the record.
Shocking!
BeddieKU23 said:
I like those fake fouls
Meanwhile Dotson keeps getting hacked.
At least 50% of a refs job is anticipating contact that doesnt happen
No foul call for Dotson and then a foul for Brown when there wasn't one. Cool.
5 pts in 7 minutes looool
vick has a chance to help that +/-
Hey Vick GO UP STRONG
Damn.. What I would do to see Vick go EJ on KSU.
BShark said:
Gotta pull Vick.
Got to he is killing us
Just seems like we can. Ever hit a big 3. Ochai was wide open.
In some ways it is amazing it's 4 points with 16 turnovers.
I despise referees.
"gentle" thats right Chauncey, tell it like it is "garbage"
Gentle = not
Gentle = not
Gentle = not
Gentle = not
ANOTHER DAM TURNOVER
Pollard wasnt even looking when that ball went out of bounds
Vick!đĄđ
Agbaji :-/ settle down man.
WTF
Embarrassing
We are flat out stupid
Freshmen
I never get it when someone says this is embarrassing.
Nice Vick
Gonna be a long day at work tomorrow
They have no issues knocking down big shots
Wow. Was that a field goal
Good to see they wanna make up the foul calls for K-State this half lmao
it is over
Gee, how did Dedric end up on the floor?
thats 14 feet of wasted talent surrounding Bechard on the bench.
Lol
WIDE OPEN. HELLO VICK.
Vick defensive special number 3 zillion.
Wow, people proclaiming this game is over. Then go to bed. Why watch?
Oh my god. LOOK AT THE DAMN PLAYER WHEN YOU PASS
Please get Vick out of there.
Vick is driving me insane
Put Vick in so the other team can practice 3 pointers.
Self - - would you PLEASE GET VICK THE HELL OUT
SO BAD VICK! SO BAD!
That's the way. Throw it into the crowd. We play better when the crowd is involved
Vick offensive special number 3 zillion
Vick sucks period
@approxinfinity
LOL
Please sub Mitch for Vick!
Just simple stuff is all we need
hard to play 5-6 on the floor - - K-state 5 -- then VICK
Oddly, I still enjoy the Phillips 66 ads.
Vick - spot up shooter at this point...
@Crimsonorblue22 simple stuff like throw it to your teammate.
Pine rider
Please put anybody in for Vick jeez Louise
@cragarhawk I was going to go with "arborist"
@jayballer73 the difference is west virginia has had some good teams - ksu is a hundred plus years of mediocrity
Vick getting rid of the zeros on his line tonight
Haha
Bwag said:
Vick - spot up shooter at this point...
doesn't have time to spot up - - much rather throw the ball away
we because cant even pass to a wide open player
never thought I would see the day when I would say, Moore for Vick.... please!
Has Grimes been in this half?
We are 4-14 from 3 and down by 6. Two more makes and we're tied. Plenty of time left.
bskeet said:
never thought I would see the day when I would say, Moore for Vick.... please!
today - - - is the day
We have them right where we want them now
nuleafjhawk said:
@jayballer73 the difference is west virginia has had some good teams - ksu is a hundred plus years of mediocrity
Not really though, KSU has a pretty solid basketball history overall.
Plenty of time to get it together.
Grimes was better than Vick. Everyone's been better than Vick.
Aargh Vick!!!
My poor three year old looks a little shell shocked...His name is Vic.
Lawson, Lightfoot, Agabaji, Dotson, Moore.
Will we get another quality look this half
There's 1
foul.
Lack of O rebounding is hurting us too
And 2
@Texas-Hawk-10 not against us
alright Grimes. Glimmers of the player he could be.
Hello, Grimes
We have more talent. But they don't know how to play together.
Charge. Shock.
WTF
That's their favorite call
Wade gets to whack Dedric as expected.
Its ok Ochai. Worse things. Keep this run going.
What a crock.
Ochai has been really bad as well
Why do KU rookies take 15 to 20 games before they stop running into people?
bad call...
Why is Vick back?
looooool ok refs
weebles wobble and they fall down
So many bad charge calls today.
20 turnovers
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
So many bad charge calls today.
Gotta make the adjustment to how the refs are calling it.
At least we'll get a new season record tonight. For turnovers.
And yet only down by 7
The charging call arm signal is by far the best thing a ref gets to do, so I kind of understand.
we need to start falling down
Our FT defense is keeping us in this one.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
So many bad charge calls today.
Gotta make the adjustment to how the refs are calling it.
Exactly.Ochai needs to not force it.
good god with the TOs
Woodrow said:
20 turnovers
Zero toughness and ball control on the road with this team.
Now 3
The game where every flop is a charge
down 3
The refs aren't stopping D Lawson.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
So many bad charge calls today.
Gotta make the adjustment to how the refs are calling it.
True. But the refs also need to adjust their heads out of their rectums.
Any reason McCormack hasn't played tonight?
Mawien has nothing for Dedric.
I think LV must be super sincere when he tells Self he's not gonna suck any more.
Ugh
One
Looks like Dedric is done passing the ball for the night.
I loathe referees
Right about when we need a run to start, we shoot ourselves in the foot.
Grimes do you have any basketball IQ. Could have had a rebound, tried to punch it and then fouls. Typical
@Texas-Hawk-10 very good question
wissox said:
I loathe referees
visions of Duke v Wisconsin?
Wake up guys guys just for 5 minutes
wissox said:
I loathe referees
visions of Wisconsin v. Duke?
That was our "stand around, watch DL, don't rebound, and foul for good measure" play
If we could go ahead and not play like we've never seen a ball before for the last 5 or so min that would be great....
Time to close out like the 2nd part of first half
Bwag said:
Time to close out like the 2nd part of first half
But not sure we have the mental toughness to do so...but one can hope
Man, the choice tonight--watch our team acting like it can't play, or watch a whole chamber of politicians who can't govern.
That play will be the difference. Down 3 after getting it down to 1 and then give them free shots on a dumb play. Could have had possession
Yea closing games hasnât exactly been our forte this year. But maybe this time...
7-3 FT count this half and Dedric has been fouled about 10 times this half.
F--k Bruce Weber.
Nice sign ! 6 months till football. Cuz we suck at basketball. Oh wait - we suck at football too!
Been beating on Dedric all game.
That's their game plan.
What happened there
Dedrick got onionized, I think.
Gee, I don't know why Dedric keeps falling.
Knee to knee
Grab the ball, Mitch
We are just throwing up complete shit
DanR said:
Grab the ball, Mitch
Career problems
Catch and Shoot. Catch and Shoot.
Sweet vick
maximize that 2
Mitch need a lightfoot spark
bskeet said:
maximize that 2
lol
that was off Wade's leg.
Dammit
Vick - spot up shooter
Gotta box out
bskeet said:
that was off Wade's leg.
wondered that too.
Unbelievable. Grab a board someone.
box out and board ... or be water boarded at practice this week
Come on Dedric, pass it to the wing.
What happened to Dedric?
Blueprint to beat Dedric, beat the crap out of him.
Woodrow said:
Unbelievable. Grab a board someone.
nah
we sure don't get those calls...except for Dotson...he does
phantom foul on grimes 10-3 foul count. Really hard to win on the road with officiating like this.
Does anyone EVER remember a KU team that has played so sloppy taking care of the ball EVER
Ok Vick. Ok.
fouls starting to get onesided here
Vick seems fired up
Open Letter to all the B12 Teams: Enjoy this year. It's not the kind of KU team you see except once every 15-20 years.
Lucky 3 there. Good D.
Is there any chance we could get a stop or two? Guess not....
2 pt game...lets get it
Not good, Grimes.
What shot was that grimes?
I hate diarra
@jayballer73 team? No. Tyshawn? Yes.
lucky shot
Game. Blouses.
LOL @ Grimes
Over
Ya. Let's get it to one possession and then have an epileptic seisure on the floor
@Crimsonorblue22 He got confused by the pregame rebounding drill.
that's all folks
back to our drive into heart of defense and throw up a prayer...damn folks, run an offense
bskeet said:
Open Letter to all the B12 Teams: Enjoy this year. It's not the kind of KU team you seen except once every 15-20 years.
This is the 4th or 5th team like this in the past 15 years. 2005-06, 2008-09, 2013-14, and 2014-15.
Maybe the NCAA should suspend another player on our team. About the only way they play with passion at this point
@Texas-Hawk-10 I don't think any were like this.
KState has been granted foul-immunity for the last 10 minutes of the game.
BeddieKU23 said:
Maybe the NCAA should suspend another player on our team. About the only way they play with passion at this point
I vote LV off the island.
Last couple minutes could be interesting
Last 6 fouls have been called against us. They haven't called one in 10 minutes against them.
When were we lower than a #6 seed? That's where this team is.
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
KState has been granted foul-immunity for the last 10 minutes of the game.
Yep, they can do w/e they want on defense. Not that KU is executing well but still.
On the road coming into this game KU has been called for 20 more fouls then the other team so it's no longer a coincidence we just mug for a living
TWENTY ONE possessions - where we couldn't even attempt a shot - -because of carelessness - -TWENT ONE possessions we have given them to get free points at our expense
BeddieKU23 said:
Over
OVER
Can anyone on KU hit a big 3
Woodrow said:
Can anyone on KU hit a big 3
Nope
lets all stand around and watch the shot go up.
I love it when our game plan is for Vick to jack shit for the final 3.5 min
@jayballer73 Why are you watching? YOu said it was over ten minutes ago.
Lawson canât guard Wade
Dedric doesn't even step when he goes
bskeet said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I don't think any were like this.
Yes they were, all very young teams that struggled big time at different points in the season. 2005-06 team was 3-4 at one point, 2013-14 lost 10 games and 2014-15 lost 9 games. 2008-09 only one with an experienced guard, but next to no experience in the post.
Not over guys
Woodrow said:
Lawson canât guard Wade
He's usually not so overmatched athletically.
Lol
That makes 4 on Dedric, Dotson, and Grimes. Two of those make me nervous.
Dedric is done.
OMG
Hell next time just step across half court and throw it up Moore
@drgnslayr 's wife has a name for players like this. It starts with P and rhymes with wussies
Wow stupid shots
Crowd will get nervous and the kitties will get tight.
cragarhawk said:
Hell next time just step across half court and throw it up Moore
Exactly
Chauncey hasn't noticed 11:30 of clock time has elapsed since last KSU foul but complains we committed one. He probably hates us too because he lost to us so often.
Look , I know if Chucky Moore can show up like Sir Charles tonight, anyone can.. I'm trying to not say something absolute about LV atm. Just having a very hard time getting excited about any positives.
12 fouls to 3 this half ain't cool. But if we actually take care of the ball we are up 8
zone now out of break? or triangle and 2 for a possession or two to confuse?
You gotta look really hard for the positive... And the silver lining is...
I'm lookin...
cragarhawk said:
You gotta look really hard for the positive... And the silver lining is...
I'm lookin...
No one got hurt. Yet.
Wide open set shot for a slow unathletic dude that can only shoot set shots. Dedric is done.
And that'll do it
KSU avg 14.4 fouls at home Ku avg 18 fouls on the road. Tonightâs game seems like a bit of an outlier.
just pass to whoever is being covered by Vick
Vick drop off special D.
Well, had a real chance before the d went braindead and gave KSU an open corner 3.
KState with fouls to give thanks to 3 guys who want KSU to win.
BULLS___T
Canât even throw it in. Pathetic
Special trip and strip D by KSU.
Guys are too young
I know Vick gets a ton of crap for his defense, but the Sneed 3 was good offense. Vick had 2 guys in his zone and he tried to stop the ball first which is what you're supposed to do.
mayjay said:
Special trip and strip D by KSU.
If that non-call doesn't tell one all they need to know about the refs in this game...
Strips are a lot easier when you can trip the guy your are stealing from.
That looks like a deep bench over there.
2md half officiating was trash.
10 point loss.
Breaks my heart to see Silvio having to comfort DD. Guy has class.
Can you imagine KSU fans if a KU player dunked like that to close out a game against them? lol
wow, foul discrepancy is lopsided and this team is done
@Texas-Hawk-10 Horrible.
making KSU look great in the new system.
Night y'all
NOW VEE DANZ!
R the saying f ku?
Silo rave after the game! wooooooo
Classiest fans
21-14 PF discrepancy
Welp this sucks
I'm still hoping for some sort of miracle to shut the fans up
BShark said:
Can you imagine KSU fans if a KU player dunked like that to close out a game against them? lol
Probably think it's a dick move, lol!
@Crimsonandblue12 I wouldn't expect anything more.
Just can't win on the road to save their lives
I think we're not very good at basketball
Crimsonorblue22 said:
R the saying f ku?
Been doing that all night.
Embarrassing
Crimsonorblue22 said:
R the saying f ku?
Are you surprised?
This really might have been an exciting finish, but there's no chance when you combine bad offense and bad officiating.
Bwag said:
21-14 PF discrepancy
And first half was equal or very close to it.
Dunk didn't bother me at all with a minute left and 7 pt lead.
I've never known a team to fall completely apart during the last 2-3 mins of a ball game.
@Texas-Hawk-10 I heard it earlier
KSU was physically and mentally tougher. Neither are surprising.
This team has NO fight at all
If we just took care of the damn ball
Hell, I don't even mind Bruce and this particular group of players, but the fans are pretty trashy.
If LV never enters the game, we win.
Remember when we were gonna be crazy good and deep this year. Those were the days
@approxinfinity Sad but true.
This team just keeps losing in the same way. They are not getting better.
Geez
Well. Good game, boys.
@cragarhawk Too deep, if I recall! How to find enough minutes for the players?
Now, it is how to find the players for the minutes!
two possession game
Idk why ppl keep talking about the streak ending this year. When it likely already did last year. Shut up about it already.
This game may have just decided the B12 champion
God. We will hear the question "Is this the year" for the next three weeks when its frickin obvious.
Garrett Luinstra, wow
Okay, now THAT dunk I can agree is tacky!
Classy dunk with less than 1 second.
Fine them
storm the court LOL.
TV is now off.
Storm the court you f--ckers!!! Storm it!!! Ya!!!
classy
Did Van Gundy go to college?
Imagine being in first place and rushing the court.
How many schools charge the court when they beat a team trailing them?
So Barry Brown with the dick move to end the game?
mayjay said:
How many schools charge the court when they beat a team trailing them?
GMTA
Let the fools have their tartar sauce.
Watch the delivery rooms in 9 months in Manhattan.
Lmao
@Texas-Hawk-10 I thought it was diarrhea
Wellp. How much more motivation do we need when we play them on the 25th?
What usually happens is KState falls apart after the thrill of beating KU at home, so we'll see how their season goes from here on out.
I'll be there, and I'll be loud!
At least 10 less turnovers more motivation
BShark said:
Imagine being in first place and rushing the court.
We are talking K- State lmao. - -I think the MOST idiotic thing I seen all night was a sign that said we own this state - -roflmmfao. - - ew have won 25-the last 31 and they own the state? - - get the F off me lmao
Let's hope everyone else has 5-6 shitty games
How the hell am I gonna get tickets and flights to Zimbabwe for the first round game this year....
I have tix to the OU game, ugh
Pooooooooop
There were two shows on TV where I could witness a reality distortion field. I picked this one.
@cragarhawk The good news if we do get sent to Zimbabwe, Silvio might find an Afican court to get an injunction allowing him to play.
Do you think Bill Walton is the Lakers' weed dealer?
@approxinfinity He could never bear to part with enough to be an effective dealer.
We let up 74 points to the worst offense in the B12 mainly because turnovers.
mayjay said:
@approxinfinity He could never bear to part with enough to be an effective dealer.
If I lived in LA, was a lottery pick that produced for the team, and had to deal with an imposter megalomaniac who was trying to get me traded, I'd be blazed too.
with even the bad calls and everything else - - until this Fricken team can find somebody that can take care of the dam ball it won't mater. - -there is NO excuse for a D-1 team to constantly have such sloppy ball handling - -just un-excusable ball handling. - -This team has to many terrible passers - - ball handlers - -just insane passes - -who go brain dead. - -this is for sure a ONE game team in the Tourney - -there is no way this team makes it out of the 1st round
On top of that -- if this regular season doesn't come to an end quick - -it will be the 1st time in over twenty plus years we finish out of the top 25 = = Period - -let that sink in for awhile - - terrible
Need a Baylor loss tomorrow and Baylor win Saturday and we are right back in it. We play both teams at home again no need to panic yet.
The over was the winning bet at 131.5. I was right on my guess for KUs 67 points. I just thought KSU would have 65 to make it interesting.
That unforced Vick no look pass into the stands is burned into my retinas.
g'night from SC, y'all. 77 and sunny here tomorrow. Hope the sun rises nicely for you wherever you may be. After all, it is just a game.
A @$^##%##% frustrating game.
@approxinfinity Vick was baaad and not in a good way. Throw Grimes in there as well.
mayjay said:
g'night from SC, y'all. 77 and sunny here tomorrow. Hope the sun rises nicely for you wherever you may be. After all, it is just a game.
A @$^##%##% frustrating game.
later man!
Ochai and Grimes killed us with missed shots and TOs. Dotson had his but he touches the ball every trip.
Grimes and Ochai were bad. But Vick was the killer. I'd rather have had a mix of Charlie, KJ and Grimes in there instead of Vick. It would have been 4.5 on 5 instead of 4 on 6.
We were basically down 2 starters friends and showed our youth at the guard spots. Let's take out some anger on OSU Saturday.
Hahaha Vick was so bad on defense the refs couldnât even call a foul on him.
Heck even Mr no defense Grimes had 4 fouls. Including a charge (or two?) at least he moved his feet occasionally.
It's pick OUR poison with Vick, Grimes, and Moore. One or more always kills us.
BigBad said:
It's pick OUR poison with Vick, Grimes, and Moore. One or more always kills us.
When one of them plays well you gotta roll with that one, not switch it up. Only one of the 3 might be remotely functional, so if it ain't broke...
@approxinfinity What happened to Moore in the second half? Disappeared to the bench it seemed
dylans said:
@approxinfinity What happened to Moore in the second half? Disappeared to the bench it seemed
Yeah, concerning. I really hope we see that version of Charles again.
Moore and Mitch were the only players that were good tonight. Devon was OK, but had too many turnovers and forced shots.
dylans said:
@approxinfinity What happened to Moore in the second half? Disappeared to the bench it seemed
Better question is what happened to Mitch. Couldn't even get off the bench 2nd half deposited his 1st half.
Woodrow said:
Moore and Mitch were the only players that were good tonight. Devon was OK, but had too many turnovers and forced shots.
I think Dotson is doing just enough to stick around in college.
I've talked about processing Moore but games like tonight give me some pause. KJ has gotta go if Dedric does though.
Too many Self doghouse players on this team.
I think Vick graduating will be major addition by subtraction.
@approxinfinity Dotson is great. Turnovers are not.
Man there were some silly charges in that one.
Dedric tonight showed why he has ZERO NBA ability. He will see guys Wade's size with more speed every possession in the NBA. He isnt capable of getting a shot off against that. I bet he is back next year.
Dotson just needs to learn when to attack and when to back it out. He is in Attack mode all the time and it leads to turnovers and forced shots.
BigBad said:
Dedric tonight showed why he has ZERO NBA ability. He will see guys Wade's size with more speed every possession in the NBA. He isnt capable of getting a shot off against that. I bet he is back next year.
There are other places to make good money playing basketball professionally.
@approxinfinity In all fairness I did say freshman vs Sr and I stand by it. No comparison. Sr Graham or Sr Mason would pretty much single handedly destroy this team.
Freshman to freshman comp Dotson is better.
Vick has gotta be consuming all of Self's brainpower right now. I wish he didn't have to think about Vick and could focus on stuff like Dedric rolling over and sucking when getting muscled around, and Dotson's turnovers, and Agbaji's jitters, and Grimes uselessness.
I think he's working on Grimes, little by little, but for the other guys, since things are going mostly right they might be getting ignored, when you have a SENIOR DUMPSTER FIRE FEATHERS-FOR-BRAINS MOBILE CLOWN SHOW THROWING UNFORCED PASSES INTO THE STANDS
So mad.
@truehawk93 sell them
First few games Vick was amazing. Now we see the donât want him to come back Vick. Bipolar play
@kjayhawks some were charges
I came back. Svi traded to Pistons today.
Really?
Woodrow said:
BigBad said:
Dedric tonight showed why he has ZERO NBA ability. He will see guys Wade's size with more speed every possession in the NBA. He isnt capable of getting a shot off against that. I bet he is back next year.
There are other places to make good money playing basketball professionally.
This is what I suspect will happen with Dedric. Though I'd take him back in a second if KU can't land Hurt or Precious.
dylans said:
First few games Vick was amazing. Now we see the donât want him to come back Vick. Bipolar play
He never played d and just was on a hot streak that you had to know wasn't going to last.
Actually on Wikipedia already! Traded with a 2nd rd choice for Reggie Bullock. Says the Pistons are wanting to develop young talent, so he should play more.
mayjay said:
I came back. Svi traded to Pistons today.
So they have him and the American version Luke Kennard?
Gotta guard the corners better (Vick). Obviously Lawson canât dribble through a quick team like K-State. Honestly, I think we win this game with Garrett. That way we get less turnovers, a more rested Dotson, and more assists. Guard play in defense was just not disciplined enough.
Jeff gueldner holding zero back on Vick
betterfireE said:
Gotta guard the corners better (Vick). Obviously Lawson canât dribble through a quick team like K-State. Honestly, I think we win this game with Garrett. That way we get less turnovers, a more rested Dotson, and more assists. Guard play in defense was just not disciplined enough.
Good point re Garrett.
Would this team be better off in the long run had Vick not returned ?
Vick must have done something on the bench.
Looking at the boxscore its really on on the TOs, shot better and out rebounded them.
Self on benching Lagerald and if it was related to production: "There was other reasons why."
@Crimsonorblue22 The biggest issue with this team is that there are not any upperclassmen spreading the culture. Self put Devonte on the phone for the Tech game pregame hype. Vick is our lone senior and he has had effort issues since day one. Not a great example for the young guys to follow.
Quentin Grimes: 2 baskets, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 steals, 5 turnovers, 4 fouls.
It wouldn't surprise me at this point if Vick just up and leaves the team.
I have no doubt that we would be better off without Vick, had we recruited a top 40 shooter. We would have lost a couple more preconference games but we would have won today. And we wouldn't have an idiot hothead hamming it up after made baskets instead of getting back to play d, and making no look passes to the 5th row with a road win within reach.
Mindnumbingly stupid. Done with Vick.
I think I'm getting more angry by the minute, KSU has completely owned us in most sports this year. Absolutely unacceptable.
Son of a sheep lover...this team. SO many turnovers. Jeebus.
Iâd say that was pretty much the game.
The harsh realization is that we have nearly zero ballhandlers. Even Dotson struggles when pressed. Grimes is kinda comical heâs so bad. How that guy even got a scholarship at a major program...hmmm. Hoping he stays and shows massive improvement next year.
On the bright side, Our defense was impressive for awhile. Albeit against a previously offensively challenged K-State team. Zone! Whereâd that come from? Self is an enigma this year. Why go away from the plan/players that were keeping us in the game? Mitch, Charlie, etc.
K State once again game planned Vick out of the game. Self needs to do a better job of getting his guys in position to score.
Vick was benched the second I started screaming at the TV for his complete lack of effort or give a shit on D. Iâm assuming thatâs why. Anybody know otherwise?
The top moment of the game? When Mitch and Charlie bonked heads in the lane. Sums it up nicely.
@jayhawkcsg You should yell at the TV earlier.
kjayhawks said:
We were basically down 2 starters friends and showed our youth at the guard spots. Let's take out some anger on OSU Saturday.
There is also a major bone to pick with OSU after their sweep last year, first in the HCBS era.
Well if what I heard was right as I didn't bother to watch the very end for just the reason I heard took place - -and that is that their so called fans rushed the floor and acted like idiots - -If that is the case - - - - -
Then in reality they are making themselves look really bad - - -even more so then our play. Cause as I'm sure we have all heard that when fans storm their court like that - -it detracts from what their team did ON the floor - -it's like dis respecting your own guys , saying that they didn't expect to win the game. - - It's pretty classless ,people could and have been hurt. - -You remember when Jamari showed great restraint ? - and THAT was at K-Straight -- I mean come on act like you belong - - act like you actually feel like you felt you could very easily win the game - -. - -this is just showing your ignorance. your taking away from what your team accomplished.
I thought the conference established fines for when league teams fans did this - -because of what K-Straight did the LAST TIME. RIGHT?
let me ask you - - how many times have you seen KU storm the court after winning a big game? - - -I mean obviously we sure the hell not going to storm the floor against league opponents - -I mean we beat their as so often - - -BUT how many times have you seen KU storm the court after we beat the likes of Say - - Kentucky ? - - - -N Carolina ? - - - -Michigan State ? -- - Duke ? - -have you seen us storm the floor after we beat one of them ? - -the answer is a resounding - - NO - - - - why ? - - Why don't we ? -- - -the answer is simple - -because we have shown we belong - -we belong on the floor with these elite teams - I mean come on you fricken idiots - - so some class - - -some respect - -to us - - hell show it to your own players - - - - -Act like you belong -I'm sure it would be appreciated by ALL
Another gem of a game from Grimes. He hit two 3's. One of those was 10 feet long and banked in off the glass at 100 mph. He had five turnovers. He had four fouls. He had 1 rebound.
How was this kid the #8 recruit in the country and was a lottery pick on every board before the season started?
When does Bill put him on the bench? We have seen it before where Bill puts high ranked stars into the deep freeze. Why not Grimes? Not judging. Honestly asking. What is going on here?
@joeloveshawks Its tough to see why Self would't start Garrett over him once healthy. He's had his time and hasn't made the best of it. Maybe he would be better off the bench.
Look at the other options. Optics play a part here. Self cant afford to sit a highly decorated freshman for recruiting purposes. This isnt the oubre years anymore, these kids notice. I'm not saying that's the main reason as his defensive effort is appalling to watch which should piss him off enough to consider other options. I think Grimes is the least of his issues though, Vick again showed why he is not mentally capable of being a teammate and mentor
@joeloveshawks Bill read boards past and is letting Grimes play through his mistakes, you donât want to shatter his confidence, ya know? Lol
Seriously, I just think Self has too few options on what was supposed to be a deep team. Youâve got to play Vick, or Moore, or Grimes, or KJ, or Mitch. Most games Grimes just disappears. You usually know when the other guys are in. Our McDonaldâs AA Center canât get off the bench even with the two guys ahead of him on the depth chart out for the year. This is not the team America expected last summer.
No leadership, no chemistry, not good...yet I still hold hope this squad will galvanize. It may be losing the streak on the court (not in the court) will motivate the fantastic fresman core to be dominate as Sophomores (and Juniors if I may be greedy). Heck it may be they figure it out after this loss, but it looked all to familiar for me think a turnaround is that eminent.
It really drives me nuts that Weber is allowed to be so far on the floor, hope one of these days someone flattens him.
Self hasnt changed with regarding Grimes, he just doesnt have many options. Vick(brain dead), Grimes(Everything), Garrett(cant shoot at ALL), Moore(cant play d or finish at the rim), and Agbaji(young dumb mistakes) all have issues.
I think Vick might be attitude
I thought we played excellent for a nice stretch. Mainly after Vick and Q were pulled. I liked the way we fought back to make it a game. This loss doesn't bother me as much as the other ones. A young team playing an E8 team on the road. Their game of the year. Little brother's break through game. We'll be lower seeded this year, so no one will expect much from us in the tournament. So, maybe we put together a nice little tournament run, and surprise ourselves.
@Crimsonorblue22 Maybe its onus for thinking Vick would be a new man this season. Same old Vick, can be great but only chooses to be 30% of the time.
We gained the lead when Kansas St went over 7 minutes without a field goal. We looked better then the reality of the situation. Once st woke up in the 2nd half there was no hope. That Grimes play where he attempted to bat the ball out instead of grabbing the rebound right in front of his face then fouling was imo the difference in the game. It was a one possession game and everything spiraled from there like brain dead Vick playing 1 on 5.
After I saw wade easily take Lawson to the goal more than once, it was over. Dedric can't bend his knees, or slide his feet. I know he's a 4, but so is wade. I wish he would be tougher! He's been w/Hudy 2 years, I expect more out of him. I know he gets fouled, but he seems so weak. I know he's our go to guy and I love the guy, I just can't understand why he's not better, tougher. I thought we looked like a jv. team against a varsity team. I give d dot a pass. Thought we should've stayed in the zone? Corner 3'sđĄ If we don't value the ball like that, more losses.
@Crimsonorblue22 That's why I have said he is gone, people think he could improve so much. I don't think he can athletically, He's a 4 year junior in the second half of the season, what you get is what you see. Defense against 3s have been terrible all year and it's just not gonna change at this point unfortunately.
It seems like the minute we think we have an answer, something screws up that answer.
I do know what we haven't tried -- starting and playing McCormack. I can't say that is the answer. But it is worth a shot at this point. Would work fine in the middle of that 2/3 zone. It is worth a look. But I'm not suggesting it's "the" answer at all. It's an option worth exploring because what we've seen isn't the answer.
I can't see all the posts, did anyone say that brown shouted out brannen Greene on his dunk at the end of the game?
@Crimsonorblue22 This may have been what you saw. The only comment about Brannen was actually late in the second half when I said the dunk with a minute left did not bother me.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
So Barry Brown with the dick move to end the game?
He did call it out. I read it on another blog. Just wasnât sure you guys knew for sure.
It was the one that didnât count
He took one dribble and then catapulted up and threw the ball down with one hand, only his shot came after the buzzer.
"No, no regret at all, man," Brown said. "Shoutout Brannen Greene."
joeloveshawks said:
Another gem of a game from Grimes. He hit two 3's. One of those was 10 feet long and banked in off the glass at 100 mph. He had five turnovers. He had four fouls. He had 1 rebound.
How was this kid the #8 recruit in the country and was a lottery pick on every board before the season started?
When does Bill put him on the bench? We have seen it before where Bill puts high ranked stars into the deep freeze. Why not Grimes? Not judging. Honestly asking. What is going on here?
Who you replacing him with? - -Ochai is already on the court -- Garret sure isn't gonna help on the offensive end - - who else you got?
Crimsonorblue22 said:
I can't see all the posts, did anyone say that brown shouted out brannen Greene on his dunk at the end of the game?
YA -- Class at it's finest. - -but what does he have to worry about -- Senior - -this is his last year - -he can play the fool - not have to worry - - the Phog Awaits
joeloveshawks said:
Another gem of a game from Grimes. He hit two 3's. One of those was 10 feet long and banked in off the glass at 100 mph. He had five turnovers. He had four fouls. He had 1 rebound.
How was this kid the #8 recruit in the country and was a lottery pick on every board before the season started?
When does Bill put him on the bench? We have seen it before where Bill puts high ranked stars into the deep freeze. Why not Grimes? Not judging. Honestly asking. What is going on here?
Remember when people said the 2018 class was garbage? They were right.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
He did call it out. I read it on another blog. Just wasnât sure you guys knew for sure.
ya been reported also b Chasen that's what he said on the last sec dunk
@jayballer73 thatâs where I read it
So, interesting juxtaposition in our last 2 games. We get motivated by Devonte before the game Saturday, and go out and crush TTex.
Go to Manhattan, and find out that they are motivated by Brannen Greene. And apparently they have figured out how to make virtually our entire team channel our inner Brannen and play as shitty as he did.
Who ever predicted BG as a key to a KU game in 2019?
@joeloveshawks Theory â Adidas paid Grimes. Self knows. Grimes knows Self knows. Leverage. Grimes starts every game. Just a theory to explain the inexplicable.
@HighEliteMajor an excellent theory. And probably has weight. And to your earlier point. Why not more Big Dave at this point? I think the kid is good. I've been saying for weeks if not months this particular group of kids is better 3 around 2 if for no other reason than lack of great outside shooting. He just needs more time in there to find himself. But doesn't get it. Why? 4-1 allows for the paid kid to be in more. I'm just done with it. The one time Self should sit the higher regarded (hs ranked) player he doesn't. Or atleast not enough. Now one could say he should play Grimes more to let the this teams ceiling come to fruition. But I just don't think he has it. Big Dave does . Give him the time. Idk. I feel each game like I either know less and less about this game, or it's just changed beyond my comprehension.
Lol worried about Greenes dunk from 3 years ago, wow get a life.
Grimes is not the same player he was in the USA games. Self is trying to find that guy. Why wouldnât any other player speak out that has sat? Anywhere!
To make matters worse, our girls just blew a 7 point lead in the final 2 minutes and got beat by 10 in OT by KSU. I only watched late but KSU hit a 3 on an obvious walk and had a and 1 without being touched. Don't know how the rest of the game was called. This team would be on the bubble if they learned to finish games out.
mayjay said:
So, interesting juxtaposition in our last 2 games. We get motivated by Devonte before the game Saturday, and go out and crush TTex.
Go to Manhattan, and find out that they are motivated by Brannen Greene. And apparently they have figured out how to make virtually our entire team channel our inner Brannen and play as shitty as he did.
Who ever predicted BG as a key to a KU game in 2019?
pretty dam funny Brown still got Brennan playing games with his head - - guess all that therapy must of work - - Vent those frustration BERRY roflmfao - -oh Berry - -umm ONE little thing to let play MORE games with you - -you still coming to the Phog lmao - -we will be there - - have a great day
kjayhawks said:
Lol worried about Greenes dunk from 3 years ago, wow get a life.
Why are you worried about Green's dunk? - - shouldn't be - - I'm not - -Berry Brown was/is - - roflmao. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Sitting a highly decorated Top 15 player would look awful bad to recruits. Self was hammered for years by other coaches when he did this in the past.
@BeddieKU23 Just give Grimes a different look off the bench is all. See if something can jump start him.
But I donât understand why itâs ok then under that theory to banish a McDonaldâs AA to the bench in McCormack. Is there some importance about the top 15 thing you think?
MCormack has been better than Grimes.
So Grimes' stat line is atrocious, 1 reb 6 pts 4 fouls 5 TOs, it's true (I'm going by others posts on the TOs, espn doesn't have it).
But when we were hanging tough, Grimes was out there on the floor. Vicks line was a little better,.7 pts 3 Reb, 2 assists, 0 PF, ? TOs. However, Vick killed us. Just killed us. Strictly in terms of on floor chemistry, is Grimes decent? Does the team play well with him out there?
HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 Just give Grimes a different look off the bench is all. See if something can jump start him.
But I donât understand why itâs ok then under that theory to banish a McDonaldâs AA to the bench in McCormack. Is there some importance about the top 15 thing you think?
MCormack has been better than Grimes.
I figured you would bring up McCormack and yes I do think there is something to the importance of Grimes being the much higher rated prospect coming in. The OAD train started on him well before he got to campus. There is pressure to satisfy him as well as future recruits that are looking at how Grimes is being used by Self. To counter that, Dotson has been a major win for Self considering a freshman PG hadn't started here in a long time. Dotson's success will have an impact on the type of PG's Self will have a chance with in the future.
There's always a few every year we are wondering why they get minutes or don't get minutes. The whole Agbaji situation still baffles me as well.
Bringing Grimes off the bench I think has the chance to permanently damage the relationship. Kids leave nowadays at the change of the wind. If Q is the type that could be motivated by that tactic then Self should consider it when Marcus is healthy. Or as you suggested prior, play McCormack now and don't wait. I think there is a ton of risk in sitting Grimes at this point. Self has believed in letting him play through all this. I don't know he has to see what we see on tape especially on defense. Usually it isn't tolerated. But then we have Vick...with his head in and out daily so you wonder what is going on with a lot of things in this program. Too many distractions and issues at this point in the season.
The K-St game was clear evidence that Vick cannot be trusted. He was toxic on the court Tuesday.
The PER does support that McCormack (14.9) has been the better player then Grimes (8.4) despite the disparity in their minutes. In Conference play Dave's PER is lower 5.2 to Grimes 8.3 which may be why he's played so little. Both numbers are terrible. Actually when you look at everyone's you wish you didn't. Moore-4.5, Mitch-4.7, Dave-5.2, Lawson-6.9, Grimes-8.3. About as bad as it gets from those 5
@BeddieKU23 As usual, you make very good points.
I am a big, big believer in playing the guy that will be the best player, letting the talent develop, and work towards having the better talent at the end of the season. My struggle with Grimes is that I'm just not seeing much and I seriously question his effort. That's a lot different than Cliff, or Diallo, or Releford, or Selby, or EJ.
To put this in context, I'd start Jamari Traylor over Grimes right now.
But your points are the pragmatic ones. I understand that may be more rational.
Good point on McCormack's PER in conference play. I think if he was able to play, get his legs under him some, we'd be satisfied with his play. Self seems married to the 4/1 now (which I just don't think matches this team very well).
BeddieKU23 said:
Sitting a highly decorated Top 15 player would look awful bad to recruits.
Yet, we end up sitting those recruits anyway because they are deemed ineligible.
To change the game we have to quit playing the game and do what's best for the team. Right now I don't even see a team out on the floor. I see five individuals with no cohesion, no cohesiveness and no chemistry.
I don't care who got paid what at this point and I certainly don't care about hurt feelings or some fraudulent pecking order. I don't care about the number of stars next to their name or how great the "experts" think they are. I also don't care about past performance or "potential". Play the guys who have the desire and the hustle and the want-to. I don't even care if THAT starting five are the most talented.
What we're trotting out there now doesn't work. So, try something else.
[Right now this team is like this](
BeddieKU23 said:
The K-St game was clear evidence that Vick cannot be trusted. He was toxic on the court Tuesday.
Self won't do it but I wonder if just straight kicking Vick off the team would be a net positive right now.
HighEliteMajor said:
Good point on McCormack's PER in conference play. I think if he was able to play, get his legs under him some, we'd be satisfied with his play. Self seems married to the 4/1 now (which I just don't think matches this team very well).
I am not sure but I think a mix would be best. Mitch and KJ can be serviceable at the 4.
HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 As usual, you make very good points.
I am a big, big believer in playing the guy that will be the best player, letting the talent develop, and work towards having the better talent at the end of the season. My struggle with Grimes is that I'm just not seeing much and I seriously question his effort. That's a lot different than Cliff, or Diallo, or Releford, or Selby, or EJ.
To put this in context, I'd start Jamari Traylor over Grimes right now.
But your points are the pragmatic ones. I understand that may be more rational.
Good point on McCormack's PER in conference play. I think if he was able to play, get his legs under him some, we'd be satisfied with his play. Self seems married to the 4/1 now (which I just don't think matches this team very well).
I'm also a big believer in playing the better player. The effort thing you mentioned is my biggest issue with him as well. He is loafing on defense almost to the point you wonder if he's in "protect the goods" mode. Except he's no longer a first round pick so what's he protecting? I don't see any team drafting him after this season either. The tape will expose Grimes in a bad way. So his issue still seems to be mental. His recent interview talking about his struggles to do everything perfect reminds me of the last guy we had with that mentality- Perry Ellis. That was a big thing that held him back in his younger days and I see the similarities. If he sticks around past this season I think he'll be the player we recruited in time. The problem is we expected that player this year.
The last thing I want to mention in regards to Q is I think he's shown he's not an off-the-ball perimeter player. I know Self recruited the Dotson/Grimes duo to play together but I think what Self ended up with is two guards that are meant for the same position. If we throw in Garrett's lack of perimeter shot I think we have 3 guys for one spot on offense. We have Batman's but no Robins. That's where Malik Newman would have saved this team. The dominance Grimes showed in HS was primarily because his role never changed. He was the PG and primary scoring option at all 3 levels (Texas, AAU, Team USA). He was physically bigger then guys who guarded him and his skill level with the ball in his hands made him the player he was projected to be. At KU he's had to learn how to play without the ball for the first time and its showing. He looks slower, he looks disinterested in playing defense especially if a player gets a step on him. When he gets a rebound or an effort play you feel like that's the first time you've seen him do that ever in a KU uniform. I think a lot of the offensive fouls he's been called for this year have zapped his confidence in driving to the hoop. He's more of a straight line driver instead of having some wiggle. That probably is attributed to him being an average athlete at this level which wasn't his problem in HS. His streaky outside shot has also been a disappointment. I have mentioned several times he rushes. He shot near 40% from 3 as a Senior on over 200 attempts so its interesting to see his struggles because a lot of his misses are often wide open.
I agree about Dave. I think he'd prove with the minutes to be valuable to this team. You don't have to teach effort with him like it seems with others. Self seems to have a big issue with his defensive positioning though. I remember him being out of position on his first defensive trip Tuesday where he was caught in front of his man who got a wide open layup. Those mistakes seem to be the kiss of death for a freshman big under Self. But those are ultimately mistakes I think Self should live with in order to build him up. He's going to need him the next 3 years and after all the injuries his lack of playing time just doesn't make much sense.
@BeddieKU23 They're not buckling down, but they're forming an identity.
What Identity would that be?
BShark said:
HighEliteMajor said:
Good point on McCormack's PER in conference play. I think if he was able to play, get his legs under him some, we'd be satisfied with his play. Self seems married to the 4/1 now (which I just don't think matches this team very well).
I am not sure but I think a mix would be best. Mitch and KJ can be serviceable at the 4.
Dam. - - pretty good point my man - - why didn't I think of that? lol - -they would be better then what we are getting right now. - - - I know I'm in the very minority on KJ - - BUT I am still a KJ fan , I think he sure in the hell could not do any worse right now. - - Don't think we would really need HUGE numbers from them. - -Between him and Mitch - - We know that they at least wouldn't be as timid as Quentin has/is a lot of times - -KJ likes to rebound - - Mitch is gonna give you all he has got --- they wouldn't be afraid to put up a shot - - YET they wouldn't be jacking up ALOT of bad shots on the other hand either.
We know Mitch is not afraid to step in and take a Charge? - -these two guys more of a threat to try and least try to score - -I just am still a KJ fan right now - -I think he could be on the floor more - -you combine those two -- might work some
@BeddieKU23 An identity of being soft, not hustling. Of course, that's just my opinion.
I still can't believe I (and some others) thought that not having Doke in the middle might make for a more productive offense. Idiots we were. This team needed a guy like Doke in the worst way.
Given that relatively obvious observation, it would seem that something inside would help Dedric. Dedric is very limited. Defensively he's a disaster inside. Not his strong suit. But the dude can score if he has a bit of space. Job one. Get him space.
@HighEliteMajor I am still trying to get my head around your comment that you would start Jamari over Grimes! I know it arose out of a sense of Grime-y desperation, but I am thinking the sun rises in the west tomorrow.....
HighEliteMajor said:
I still can't believe I (and some others) thought that not having Doke in the middle might make for a more productive offense. Idiots we were. This team needed a guy like Doke in the worst way.
Given that relatively obvious observation, it would seem that something inside would help Dedric. Dedric is very limited. Defensively he's a disaster inside. Not his strong suit. But the dude can score if he has a bit of space. Job one. Get him space.
Yep! Self will never banish Vick, and unless Tuesday's Charles is the new Chuck and Mitch continues to scrap like his life depends on it, there will be several guys sabotaging the game in our rotation.
I didn't mention Q, KJ, or Garrett. They never officially made it to my mental Island of Misfit Toys, but obviously, there are many question marks and things need to go right there as well. These guys are at least a net zero on a bad night, not a disaster. Of the three, Garrett has the most potential to be a game changer in limited matchups.
Of the three buckets:
A. potential disaster -- Vick (almost made likely disaster 4th bucket), Mitch, Charlie
B. likely net zero -- Q, KJ, Garrett (Garrett is a match up thing that we should be able to predict, he probably deserves his own bucket)
C. good to great -- Dedric, Dotson, Agbaji
Which bucket do you put Big Dave? I don't think we've seen a complete game of his belong in bucket C, but we need to see him PLAY A COMPLETE GAME before making that assessment. If he did fall in bucket A earlier in the season, I'm just not seeing it now. Kid gives his all and good things happen when a giant waves his wings.
So after Tuesday's game, I would put Dave ahead of Vick for sure, Chuck and Mitch if they bomb their next assigment, KJ if we don't need 3s, and Garrett if we do. I'd put him ahead of Q if the team isn't doing well, otherwise I wouldn't screw the chemistry.
So that leaves only Dotson, Agbaji, and Dedric ahead of Dave :100: of the time.
Do you remember the games where we force fed Doke to the point of bewilderment? (I think there were several, which led to the unfounded conclusion that our offense would be set free sans Doke). Ball goes in, no light escapes... Well now it seems to me that maybe the reason our offense was so simply a binary absolute of [FEED / DO NOT FEED] Doke was because the Chuckers, Wimps, and Poisonous Snakes were certain to sabotage with some bonehead play if the offense was given freewill. Easier to issue the blanket directive "You will look for Doke, and if you don't feed him when he's open, you're coming out."
I think it was you before that said this team needs "Micromanagement Bill" in the worst way. Well, at least this last game gives me some hope that Charles and Mitchell can be productive. That was the most focused and aggressive I've seen them all season. I liked it. But if they aren't, Dave. Vick? No Thanks. Dave. Dave will never throw a no look pass into the bleachers. Never. The road paved with broken players leads to Dave.
And I hope Self sees it.
I don't think the ineptitude is a permanent condition. We're being schooled on the road by older teams that have been around the block. We're still barely scratching the surface. We're still cobbling together different line ups. There is too much talent on this team to not get better...much better...this year. I wouldn't know when that will be, and I'm not so sure who it will be, but I think this team still has potential...still has possibilities for this year.
@approxinfinity Put Big Dave in for for a minimum of 10 minutes every game. Wouldn't it have been easier to teach one player ( Big Dave ) his position than trying to get a team to learn a new offense in the middle of the season? Admit it, Coach Self...the 4 out works like a lead balloon with this crew because you don't have the shooters you had last year. Free the hi-lo....FREE BIG DAVE!
@approxinfinity Thatâs a PHOF if Iâve ever seen one.
@HighEliteMajor Your Adidas theory on why Grimes continues to play can't be ignored based on what (sadly) has come to light. My theory is that Self does feel pressure to play a highly recruited guy (I can imagine that has come up on the recruiting trail), that he also has seen what Grimes can do and he wants that to have a chance to shine through. I think the continuing to start thing might be to keep his ego /spirits up. Not starting is more noticeable than not being in at crunch time. And once Garret comes back...I don't think Grimes will be in at crunch time..unless he improves considerably.
I still hold out hope.
Grimes reminds me so much of Newman last year it's crazy. He's so close to turning the corner and being "a guy." Newman literally sucked for like 95% of the season, but he finally got there. We had threads about how awful he was and how he "seemed" like a cancer.
I think Grimes will get better. He's already shown his shot is starting to fall. Next step is being able to defend for 35 minutes a game and literally turn the corner on the drive. It's coming.
Kcmatt7 said:
Grimes reminds me so much of Newman last year it's crazy. He's so close to turning the corner and being "a guy." Newman literally sucked for like 95% of the season, but he finally got there. We had threads about how awful he was and how he "seemed" like a cancer.
I think Grimes will get better. He's already shown his shot is starting to fall. Next step is being able to defend for 35 minutes a game and literally turn the corner on the drive. It's coming.
Grimes will be VERY good at KU if he sticks around and just plays. It's been a huge adjustment for him to play off the ball.
â
â