🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Vaughn, Pollard and Collison all in the house today.

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KU -14.5 in Vegas, -16 Kenpom

Almost time for REVENGEANCE.

Game wont be on TV for a while. Tech just hit the under 8

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Errbody at the game today.

BeddieKU23 said:

Game wont be on TV for a while. Tech just hit the under 8

Massive blowout too. They should move that game to ESPN 8 the Ocho.

@BShark Man I loved Jacques. Such a class guy. My favorite JV story which shows his personality and intelligence...

Jacques had made a diving play into the scorers table to try to fling the ball back inbounds but the ref whistled him out of bounds. JV said to the ref: "You can't call that...you are negating my hustle!"

What college kids says that? What a Hawk!

@BShark

Svi, Devonte and malika back as well

Late to see your link LOL

Nick Collison is one of my favorite KU players.

Also at the game per Matt Tait: Tyrel Reed, Wayne Simien, Alonzo Jamison

Really hope Vegas predicted this right.

Why won't ESPN switch games regionally? You know they have the tech to do so. It is just ridiculous! Why is this game going sooooo long if it's a blow out???

Pollard looks like he could be on Game of Thrones.

@Fightsongwriter Don't move it to ESPN news for sure....we'd miss the damn rugby match.

Fightsongwriter said:

@BShark Man I loved Jacques. Such a class guy. My favorite JV story which shows his personality and intelligence...

Jacques had made a diving play into the scorers table to try to fling the ball back inbounds but the ref whistled him out of bounds. JV said to the ref: "You can't call that...you are negating my hustle!"

What college kids says that? What a Hawk!

My favorite Jacques moment...draining a three to beat Bobby Knight & Indiana. My old KU girlfriend and I were both back in town from our respective cities for a holiday reunion. Couldn't score tickets to the game, so we watched it in a bar at 19th & Iowa. Great evening.

Why is this game going so slowly? ESPN really needs to rethink its' scheduling. It's happening to silo tech as well. The cheapskates at that network started charging for their ESPN3 platform. I already pay for ESPN but they want to charge me again. Of course our game started 8 minutes late so whoever is waiting to play at 5 will have to wait for us to finish. I think it's Duke so I hope we go to quadruple OT.

Wouldn't surprise me if they pulled away from our game to go to the Duke game.

@wissox We are going to miss the first 10-12 min. Just beyond stupid.

@wissox And the dumb refs keep calling dumb fouls in a game that has been over for 20 min.

TTech fans aren't even in the stands so why are we forced to watch? @Fightsongwriter Seriously. This is an age old problem. They ought to allot 2:15 for games so less of this happens.

@wissox Another foul call

wissox said:

TTech fans aren't even in the stands so why are we forced to watch? @Fightsongwriter Seriously. This is an age old problem. They ought to allot 2:15 for games so less of this happens.

At least go split screen for those with cable and not streaming.

McCormack is big and active, but is REALLY raw. Only reason to start him is to avoid having Mitch pick up early fouls.

The NFL seems to not have this problem. They have the sense to switch to another game when it's a blowout.

@Fightsongwriter The refs have now called 4 founds in the Baylor game in the last 3 min.

Sloppy start by both teams...

ESPN is so bad.

You’d think TT would be burning clock

@KirkIsMyHinrich Well, at least they have the App option, which is what I'm watching now...

Can’t get it on app for some reason

under 16 break

@Fightsongwriter Another foul with 16 seconds left.

The game is garbage so far.

Oh my now a clock adjustment time out. Set it for 19.2 and let’s move on

Scott Drew: still a huge douche!

One not very good sign - WVU has 5 offensive rebounds already - their 2 buckets off putbacks...

DMac with a big block

Dick move. Beard is pissed.

What's frustrating is there's no way to complain to ESPN. If Walmart screws up I go to the customer service counter and let them have it. ESPN gives no way to complain. I want to complain about ESPN's Duke player power rankings. Have ya'll seen that? Myron Medcalf, but there's no way to send him a message that I can find to tell him why that column is example 1A of ESPN bias. No outlet for our frustrations. I could drive to connecticut and complain I guess. OK, we're finally watching, we've missed a point a minute Jayhawks.

Sweet uni's today!

Fran went to the wrong Kansas school for the game today.

@Fightsongwriter Yeah. Like the classic look.

With those uniforms...Dotson reminds me of Darnell Valentine out there...

If we play with any focus on defense today, we should be able to hold them to 50 or so - they are going to struggle to score. Just need to avoid second chance points...

dice dime, Grimes

Nice pass

Loving this team

And off we go!

Och got fouled!!

Dotson is so dang fast!!!

Let's go! Looking good!

@Fightsongwriter I went back and watched in slo mo, don't think he got hit, but in real time it looked like it.

Q got away with a travel before the pass to Lawson.

I'm just going to say it: Ochai reminds me of Michael Jordan.

WVU is 3-15 from the field - but 7 ORBs

wissox said:

What's frustrating is there's no way to complain to ESPN. If Walmart screws up I go to the customer service counter and let them have it. ESPN gives no way to complain. I want to complain about ESPN's Duke player power rankings. Have ya'll seen that? Myron Medcalf, but there's no way to send him a message that I can find to tell him why that column is example 1A of ESPN bias. No outlet for our frustrations. I could drive to connecticut and complain I guess. OK, we're finally watching, we've missed a point a minute Jayhawks.

Tweeting with some hashtags like #hateduke #espnblows #dukiebias etc might be your best option.

DCHawker said:

WVU is 3-15 from the field - but 7 ORBs

Staple of Huggins

6 KU players have scored, but none has more than 4 points. Nice distribution.

Really like Dave's minutes so far. Team looks relaxed and focused.

OMG THEY ARE PLAYING DEFENSE

ISU doing us a solid so far.

@approxinfinity Dave had 2 blocks in his 5 minutes. But also 2 turnovers.

We will keep d dot over jones

BShark said:

OMG THEY ARE PLAYING DEFENSE

Vick effect

Fran knows Vick isn’t coming back?😳

@approxinfinity Dave had a basket, block and at least one board.

Interesting line-up.... Moore, Grimes, KJ, Dedric, Mitch

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Fran knows Vick isn’t coming back?😳

Yep. Straight from Bill I would bet.

kJ a man

I hope Vick comes back, with a clear head and in early season form. Otherwise meh, sorry to see so much potential wasted, but we don't need him.

THE PASSING IS SO GOOD

"I don't know why guys step out of bounds." Brilliant observation by Fran.

Even on the miss by Grimes that was good offense.

culver is getting frustrated

@tundrahok Einstein

No!

Are u serious

really bad call

If LSU got that basket at Kentucky that basket should have counted.

ohhhhh refs

Fran don’t talk about your coaching

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Fran don’t talk about your coaching

Those who can't coach go into broadcasting.

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Fran don’t talk about your coaching

Those who can't coach go into broadcasting.

Uncle Fester.

Where say he go now

Well Fran's players didn't use four feet of court, so that's probably why we's an announcer :rolling_eyes:

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Fran don’t talk about your coaching

Those who can't coach go into broadcasting.

Uncle Fester.

I was thinking of him as well when I typed that.

Did someone say we lost to this team earlier this year?

Brick city

Wow Grimes take your time

This WVU team is terrible.

@BShark

Ssh they deserve it

BeddieKU23 said:

Wow Grimes take your time

A couple yikes plays from him in a row. Likely won't matter today.

I hope self didn’t tell Fran about Vick and Fran just just betrayed his trust😡

@BShark

Still he is playing hard at least and trying to make plays. Just wish they were consistent

Konate on the bench?

If Grimes could shoot 3's this KU team would be a lot better.

I would bet Vick ain't coming as well. Grimes, slow down buddy

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

Still he is playing hard at least and trying to make plays. Just wish they were consistent

Any coincidence that Grimes has been playing harder the last few games? Nope.

@KirkIsMyHinrich If Grimes could do anything we'd be a lot better!

Fightsongwriter said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich If Grimes could do anything we'd be a lot better!

He can pass. That's about it.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

If Grimes could shoot 3's this KU team would be a lot better.

@approxinfinity had identified that whenever his catch requires him to cross his body to get into shooting form/position he misses. Sometimes badly like that last shot.

Oh and @BeddieKU23 I have zero sympathy for Huggins. He isn't that high above Drew or Liberace for me.

What was the story behind those WVU dismissals? Anybody?

How many scholly players do we have?

@nwhawkfan academic

@KirkIsMyHinrich True in open court. But can't throw a decent post entry pass.

@Crimsonorblue22 Thx.

That was a long time for WVU to score

Dedric hit on the wrist during that shot

Missed a couple hacks on the lawson boys. Refs just want to get this game over with

@Crimsonorblue22 Then again, since when has Huggins been big on academics? Din't one of his Cincy teams have a zero percent graduation rate?

@nwhawkfan school!

At this point KJ is a better option that Q. His shot is getting worse.

Boths Lawsons and Dave. Billy is screwing with Bobby and it's still the first half.

@nwhawkfan had nothing to do w/huggy

Call a foul

Mitch... MY ball.

Fran being cute

D dot

Man this is fun

The ball movement with this group is SO much better...

Gordon is not a basketball player

Look who we r playing

Someone must have talked to Fran. All these compliments, and then he says stuff like "devon is so good he could even play at Duke" and shows his true colors.

Where's hugg find that brick wall

Yes!

No reason we should not win this by 40

Dotson is gaining confidence in his outside shot

DCHawker said:

The ball movement with this group is SO much better...

Bill came to his senses just in time.

@approxinfinity that was my pt about we will keep d dot

Ochai a little off today, good game for him to do so lol.

Please stay another year, Devon.

Playing as a team, aka chemistry seems to go a long ways

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@approxinfinity that was my pt about we will keep d dot

Gotcha, I've been in and out ,havent been able to follow game thread.. Hanging with the baby on the floor atm.

@kjayhawks

That 3 looked good. In and out

Did I hear Frannie right...that he thinks we're going to go a long way in the tournament? Ok, what the hell is going on...did hell freeze over?

@BeddieKU23 Major addition by subtraction....

KUSTEVE said:

Did I hear Frannie right...that he thinks we're going to go a long way in the tournament? Ok, what the hell is going on...did hell freeze over?

He's been spoken to, I'm sure. I'd be interested in how that went down.

@KUSTEVE

Fran drank the pond water today

@KUSTEVE yes in ks

great to see svi, malik, and devonte...the 3 muskateers...

Kstate down by 10!!

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

Please stay another year, Devon.

Do w/e it takes. We good?

@BeddieKU23 frozen! Throw him in!

Ochai fine lol

KU up 3 TDs

kJ is older

It is now clear that the best 5 on the floor for us - at least without Garrett - is the Lawson brothers, Mitch, D Dot and Ochai.....

@Crimsonorblue22 Good catch!

@BShark I can't stand Huggy. I'll give him his due as a coach, but Bruce has had some success too, nearly won a national championship. Drew has had some sporadic success, not impressed with his coaching however.

🤪🌾

@DCHawker So many coaches refuse to play their best 5. I never get that.

ISU by 7 at the half at Bramlage. Going nuts from three as usual.

@wissox I meant as people only from the view we get.

Legitimate question does west Virginia get past 24 that North Carolina st scored a few weeks ago

I'm relieved Mitch, KJ and Dave are getting more into a groove. Now Charlie just needs to figure out what he can add.

KSU made a half courter before half, or close

@Crimsonorblue22 Booooo!

Dedric helped up the WVU player

We r helping them up during the game✌️

Dotson is Frank reincarnated

Dang

It's no 40-12 but 43-16 ain't bad.

Lawson with the sportsmanship award helping the guy up during the play

That could have been an illegal screen on Mitch.

DLaw with the helping hand in middle of play.

4 and 3

@BeddieKU23 He is way ahead of where Frank was as a freshman....

Lightfoot with 5 RB

Way ahead

Huggins put a football player on the team.

I feel sorry for hugs, honest

@DCHawker

He now has the confidence. All American next yr. Not even a question

Team looks like they are having fun. Feels like something's changed.

Any other season I'd call this one a laugher, Comeback unlikely, but just sayin;.

@Crimsonorblue22

Please don't

Teahan gets a 3 today folks

I can't remember a WV game where the refs called more fouls on WV.

Best half of the year by far. And finish strong ISU!

Ugh Barry brown with that half court 3.. jeez that's a momentum changer

@KirkIsMyHinrich Vick exile. Coincidence?

Fightsongwriter said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich Vick exile. Coincidence?

I didn't want to say it. Maybe.

BeddieKU23 said:

Dotson is Frank reincarnated

He's not Frank, his his game is Sherron's game. Born out of Chicago.

O/U 5 minutes played for Teahan and Luinstra.

i'm telling you...this team is coming together... i think there is a pretty good team lurking out there....

Self doesn’t start Mitch cause he doesn’t want him to get 2 fouls in 5 mins. A quote

@KUSTEVE

Agreed.

We marvel at Dotson's impressive play as a freshman. One thing we don't talk about is his rebounding. He is averaging nearly 4 a game. That's a solid number. Hope he can get it up to 5 a game which Frank was able to do.

stoptheflop said:

I can't remember a WV game where the refs called more fouls on WV.

Pretty sure WVU got called for a lot more fouls than KU in AFH last year. At least if the FTA was any indication.

Joe "Magic Bracket Goblin" Lunardi. It's that time of year... ooh, exciting!

@wissox That is why the frank comparison is so good. But DD is more under control and poised than frank was as a frosh. Frank was more explosive, stronger, powerful. But DD is ahead at this stage for sure.

Let's just win out and get back in the discussion for a 2 seed. Not saying it will happen. But this team could do it.

Stat of the half courtesy of twitter

KU rebounds: 18

WVU pts: 16

approxinfinity said:

Let's just win out and get back in the discussion for a 2 seed. Not saying it will happen. But this team could do it.

The game next Saturday is the hardest one left. Win that and it's possible.

Surely someone here thinks we can blow this lead.

@Fightsongwriter They're different players for sure.

approxinfinity said:

Let's just win out and get back in the discussion for a 2 seed. Not saying it will happen. But this team could do it.

If KU won out, including the B12 tournament, they'd definitely be a 2 seed and have a shot at a 1 seed with help.

@KirkIsMyHinrich Next Sat will be INTENSE!!!

DanR said:

Surely someone here thinks we can blow this lead.

No. West Virginia is too bad. They might not hit 43 for the game.

@wissox I'm thinking that if Devon somehow would stay here for 4 years, he might end up being our best guard ever.

@DanR Uh.....no way.

approxinfinity said:

Let's just win out and get back in the discussion for a 2 seed. Not saying it will happen. But this team could do it.

Well if you believe the committee this team was a 3 seed before the last couple wins or so. KU probably does get a 2 seed if they win out. 1-2 losses seem likely though, including the next game in particular.

@stoptheflop They have a player, Gordon, with 4 fouls already in 8 minutes. That's impressive.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

DanR said:

Surely someone here thinks we can blow this lead.

No. West Virginia is too bad. They might not hit 43 for the game.

They will, KU's defense will ease up late. WVU probably ends up in the low 50's.

I'm looking forward to Huggins' post game press conference

@wissox Dotson's effort at rebounding is impressive for a guard, especially a freshman. He really boxes out and pays attention.

@approxinfinity I barely use twitter, but I just found medcalf and tweeted meanly at him. It felt kind of good!

KUSTEVE said:

@wissox I'm thinking that if Devon somehow would stay here for 4 years, he might end up being our best guard ever.

:100:

tundrahok said:

@stoptheflop They have a player, Gordon, with 4 fouls already in 8 minutes. That's impressive.

He thought his assignment was poke a doke, that's how he got so many fouls.

wissox said:

@approxinfinity I barely use twitter, but I just found medcalf and tweeted meanly at him. It felt kind of good!

lol its a slippery slope my friend.. feel the dark side!

The @TT Sat and KSU Mon is going to be a tall order. Really tough scheduling turn-a-round.

kind of having to agree with what Ol Frannie is having to say - -I myself am liking this new look - hell playing 5 out - -and then sliding Dedric down deep some times - - Mitch and Dave coming along - Mitch with a block - - Dave - with a couple of blocks - -

Had some people throwing shade at KJ earlier in the year - -don't really think that was fair he wasn't getting a lot of minutes - -but since that has increased I think he is feeling more comfortable not forcing - he has been playing solid - -hell even Quentin looks he might been doing some things a little better. - -I realize ya it's WV -these poor guys are just DEPLETED - -over all guysI think we are starting to come a bit - -might be small but last couple of games - -seeing some things -Next Saturday is gonna be HUGE

Halftime stats.

!0_1550354830490_Screen Shot 2019-02-16 at 5.03.18 PM.png ↗

Texas Hawk 10 said:

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

DanR said:

Surely someone here thinks we can blow this lead.

No. West Virginia is too bad. They might not hit 43 for the game.

They will, KU's defense will ease up late. WVU probably ends up in the low 50's.

This seems pretty likely. Plus we are in for some Teahan time.

approxinfinity said:

Halftime stats.

!0_1550354830490_Screen Shot 2019-02-16 at 5.03.18 PM.png ↗

Um.

Umm
wrong year, doh.

lolol

KU desreves a 2 seed if they win the B12

@approxinfinity ??

Let me try that again .Sorry guys lol... I coached my 7 year olds team at 10:30 until my voice gave out. Then did the box score at my 9 year olds playoff game, yelling my ass off.... middle aged moment :)

@approxinfinity Huggins was not happy when he heard the freethrow ratio was 35-3

DanR said:

@approxinfinity Huggins was not happy when he heard the freethrow ratio was 35-3

ha! thats right.

I hope we and WVU foul a lot, and the refs review a lot of calls this half. Otherwise, we're never going to make Duke wait to watch their game.

Let's try that again. Halftime stats.

!0_1550355045351_Screen Shot 2019-02-16 at 5.08.52 PM.png ↗

@DanR When Garrett returns Charlie prob wont get many minutes

@Fightsongwriter Frank the first couple years was a mess driving - but he always did it with confidence

@Bwag BIFM!

What if Garrett is the bad link and not Vick?

Just kidding.

Devon went after that rebound when no one else would.

Dave

Big Dave can shoot freethrows.

jinx

@approxinfinity Way to jinx big dave

Needs to get a little stronger there

He can though.

Holy moly , Ochai

I remember when it was 19-9.

Yeah, that '73-'74 Final Four team was great...Ted Owens ran a double post offense with Danny Knight & Rick Suttle. Cook, Morningstar, Greenlee, Kivisto, etc.

I have a man-crush on #30!

@Fightsongwriter Get in line buddy! No. the line STARTS here points to back of line

j/k j/k

its a bandwagon, not a line.

Neither coach has called a timeout it appears.

DanR said:

What if Garrett is the bad link and not Vick?

I doubt it. Garrett never had an issue effort or attitude.

A lot of the personality this team had mirrored Vick's personality.

Grimes blocked by the rim again.

Thats a foul.

I guess Chuck's finally out of the rotation. Will he even get mop up minutes?

@DanR If he shoots it on the other side he makes it.

@stoptheflop chuck played in the first half... did ok. No stupid no-look shots

stoptheflop said:

I guess Chuck's finally out of the rotation. Will he even get mop up minutes?

I assumed he got in b/c KJ got in. Guess not. Good. KJ deserves non-Chuck-accompanied minutes.

@Texas-Hawk-10 But Garrett may be the issue with clogging up the offense.

Guess this is a good time to let Grimes try and figured stuff out.

DanR said:

@stoptheflop chuck played in the first half... did ok. No stupid no-look shots

I thought he did too but he wasnt on the box score at halftime.

Wonder if dg still has his gf in Lawrence? Ask Fran?

Pretty lack luster here

Entry passing still sucks.

Entry passes getting lazy

Fightsongwriter said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 But Garrett may be the issue with clogging up the offense.

Garrett wasn't the issue with the offense. He isn't a ball stopper.

@Texas-Hawk-10 It's 4 on 5 since he can't shoot. That will stop the flow.

Surely Bill will stick with playing two bigs even when Garrett is back.

approxinfinity said:

Thats a foul.

Assumed you meant the defense going through Big Dave to knock the ball out.

Agreed

Great Mitch! Going hard

Grimes just doesn’t react

@DanR Thanks. I was looking at the ESPN box score that must have missed it.

I dont know I don't want to damn the kid. Its just a little hard to watch. @Crimsonorblue22 Yeah, something feels disconnected. I dont know if its skills related or a mental block that can be overcome.

Grimes is so bad it's unreal

I thought my -14 bet was safe...

Missed Ochai for a lob on that last fast break

Kcmatt7 said:

I thought my -14 bet was safe...

It would be if Q didn't play.

We need a Bill Self ass chewing timeout

@approxinfinity Chuck played 3 minutes according to the box score I'm watching. The only player not to score in the first half.

Second DLaw helping hand during action. This time a teammate though

I'm starting to wonder if Grimes is just dumb as a rock

Charlie time!

@DanR nope

tundrahok said:

@approxinfinity Chuck played 3 minutes according to the box score I'm watching. The only player not to score in the first half.

gotcha! ok thank you. i wonder who espn gave his minutes to :) they still dont have him in.

@DanR 👎

Fightsongwriter said:

@Texas-Hawk-10 It's 4 on 5 since he can't shoot. That will stop the flow.

I'm sick of that line because Garrett can drive and it's not 4 on 5 with him out there.

@Bwag Good... then there's hope!

See its KJ + Charlie, always. Doesn't exactly feel fair to KJ.

The 2nd half is now tied. I expected sloppy play though.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Don't think it's wrong. We will see soon.

I second the motion for a timeout + Bill Self asschewing.

KJ needs to start ahead of Q and get more minutes

Here we go. expect a 7-0 run to start after this tv timeout.

Keep in mind, Duke could probably win if they were in WVU's situation.

Shut up, Fran.

ISU gave up the big lead...up 4

@Fightsongwriter How big was the lead?

Don't look now but KSU is making a run, sigh

ISU up on Ksucks by about 5 with 10 left

Fightsongwriter said:

ISU gave up the big lead...up 4

KState started shooting more free throws. Now a 16-7 advantage in free throws. Go figure.

@wissox 8-9 last I had checked. Dean wade injured.

@wissox 11 at one point for sure

Looks like Wade might have reinjured his foot

Dean Wade hurt again.

Charlie in layup

ESPN giving that drummer more face time than some of our players

@Woodrow THis could be huge for the league race.

@nwhawkfan he had AOC 👀 going there.

I always liked Frank's tenacious rebounding, but worried that we were losing out on fast break defense. Isn't the PG the first line of defense?

@stoptheflop Selden was always defending the break so frank could rebound. Probably same with Grimes/Dotson.

I wish Agbaji could jump a little better.

Wade hurt

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Wade hurt

How severe?

Not sure

Mitch not giving them anything easy.

Mitchell no easy buckets Lightfoot

borderline flagrant there Mitch, but I like it against WVU!

Doesn’t seem to be to be as severe pain as last time

Did that WVU player just decide he didn’t want to play anymore?

4 pt gane

Chuck, Ochai, KJ, Mitch, Dave.

LOL

@BShark Burger King AA line up

Charlie playing in the flow. It's true

Fightsongwriter said:

@BShark Burger King AA line up

Lolol

Fightsongwriter said:

@BShark Burger King AA line up

Probably going to be the best post in this thread. Almost spat out my water.

Unlike Wendy's, maybe Burger King will give Devon free Burgers for life if he wins the Wooden Award. He should tweet them.

@BShark Ha! my wife just brought me a hot toddy...scotch, lemon juice, lime juice, and chili infused honey. I think you would like.

Memorieeees :musical_note:

Check out @FrankMason0’s Tweet: 🐦 View Tweet?s=09

She looks really young for 12-13

@Fightsongwriter Sounds good although I was imagining chili from a bowl not the pepper at first

@DanR That would be a tad chunky!! :-)

Woooo blowout fatigue . Feels good :yawn:

This is great. bigger chance to miss the beginning of the duke game.

wissox said:

This is great. bigger chance to miss the beginning of the duke game.

Lolol no cutting over you a-holes!

Shut up Fran

@wissox Yeah, that'd be a damn shame. Let 'em wait.

We are gonna watch every meaningless minute of this game or I'm complaining hahaha

I wish Dotson would shoot more. Only 6 shots so far if ESPN's box is right.

@BShark really maybe try coaching these teams w/all these injuries

Shayok just hit a 2 and fouled, under 4 up 6 with chance to make it 7

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark really maybe try coaching these teams w/all these injuries

Fran would develop a coach K back problem to avoid getting the Ls on his record.

BeddieKU23 said:

Shayok just hit a 2 and fouled, under 4 up 6 with chance to make it 7

I'm half tempted to switch to this game but I am holding out.

@BShark

Put it on your phone that what I did

@BShark what a dumbass thing to say if u know anything at all about bb, especially in the injury plagued big 12

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark really maybe try coaching these teams w/all these injuries

Fran would develop a coach K back problem to avoid getting the Ls on his record.

Haha. We should be the Kansas Elephants. We never forget.

Ohh the complimentary to Kansas section is over. Now on to being Duke fluffers.

Shouldn't have lost to WVU. If we lose the Big12 I'm blaming it on that game.

ISU +7 with 3 1/2

Wade ankle injury

ISU up 12 with 2 min.

You just know ESPN is going to cut away to Duke.

Noooo

12 pt game 14 1:30

ISU blowing it......wide open!!!!

Bill should use all his timeouts.

GOOSE IS COOKED

Iowa st will win

These refs sure have slow whistles

Thank U Clones!

Charlie was substantially better than Q today it feels like (without checking box score)

Barry dude! Brannen Greene makes his free throws

Kj can play

There you go Dave, just man it up.

Altogether now KJ!!!!

Again!

Kevin Young there?

ISU +12 with minute

@Bwag 14!

Why is Dotson still playing?

Teahan teahan teahan

Charlie time. Lob to Teahan.

Ksucks gonna let the conference slide now?

Lol

KSU taking the L and Wade hurt... This is how it happens...

Purps with a 24-11 FT advantage, but ISU shot them out of the gym today.

@Bwag let's not go crazy the next 2 games are still must wins for no matter what.

kjayhawks said:

@Bwag let's not go crazy the next 2 games are still must wins for no matter what.

If KU wins in Lubbock it's over. I don't think that happens though.

UVA was not a good fit for Shayok.

BShark said:

kjayhawks said:

@Bwag let's not go crazy the next 2 games are still must wins for no matter what.

If KU wins in Lubbock it's over. I don't think that happens though.

Still need to win at home vs KState.

Frans probably crying😭

@kjayhawks for them or us.

I know we need to win out regardless but I’m not saying we win it. But so they crash and burn now? Especially without Wade.

@BShark not if we lose to KSU, we win @ Tech and KSU at home next Monday we are in good shape but I still think we must win out.

Here's the cutover. F'ers.

We oughta bring back the alumni for every game. Brings us luck!

gonna be three ugly minutes, but fun!

Teeaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn

TEAHAN TIME

Cool hand Teahan as Max would say!

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Frans probably crying😭

No, ISU

Wowowoow yeah!

GINGER SNAP !

Are they switching our game to another channel?

Chuck, ??

wissox said:

Are they switching our game to another channel?

Yup

Step to ball

F U ESPN

Love Graham, Newman, and Svi's reaction, like they are part of the bench. Awesome

Fuck you espn

Cutawy

PUKE game hasn't even started. What a joke.

If I were a walk-on I’d be pissed Charlie has a scholarship

@Bwag just cause we have a chance

YOU BASTARDS! COULDN'T WAIT ONE DAMN MINUTE TO SWITCH?

Because we really need to see the Duke students camping out. Their damn game hasn't even started yet!

Then we miss part of our game for a commercial?

Disgusting ESPN, disgusting.

Check out @approxinfinity’s Tweet: 🐦 View Tweet?s=09

ESPN sucks

KU is going to win at least a share the Big 12 title this year.

We aren't Dook to ESPN obviously 😐

@kjayhawks Thank God.

They make us wait 20 minutes in a complete blow out, then they preempt us...whisk us off the stage. It's revealing and pathetic.

11-0 run by WVU to end the game lol

@Kcmatt7 that's what that drive into 3 players looked like. Once Garrett returns he shouldn't see the floor in all honesty.

kjayhawks said:

@Kcmatt7 that's what that drive into 3 players looked like. Once Garrett returns he shouldn't see the floor in all honesty.

Garrett is better than Grimes. It's not close.

kjayhawks said:

@Kcmatt7 that's what that drive into 3 players looked like. Once Garrett returns he shouldn't see the floor in all honesty.

Just flat wrong.

Love the game from KJ today, he was solid. Dotson with 15/5/8, good stuff.

@BShark And only 2 TOs

BShark said:

Love the game from KJ today, he was solid. Dotson with 15/5/8, good stuff.

just saying I don't think KJ is that bad - -he has limited minutes until injuries and player leaving - for the most part he had been in on mop up time - -I think he is showing he can help. -- I just keep looking back when he was at Memphis had pretty solid numbers.

I realize Memphis is not Big 12 - still - he is not that bad - like the looks of the team - showing that different look - -seems like players are showing up a little more

@BShark @Texas-Hawk-10 We were talking about Moore, not grimes guys

kjayhawks said:

@BShark @Texas-Hawk-10 We were talking about Moore, not grimes guys

Oh you were saying Chuck shouldn't see the floor. That makes perfect sense, I agree.

We shoot 53 % from the field - - 8-20 from the 3 - - and 14-18 from the line - I can live with those numbers

Apparently someone on the duk game just referred to NCState as "that other team from the triangle".

kjayhawks said:

@BShark @Texas-Hawk-10 We were talking about Moore, not grimes guys

Not how it came across, but agreed. Moore should foul trouble and mop up minutes.

@BShark Grimes has seemed way more engaged here lately, he just isn't hitting shots. He was 0-4 from distance and 3 had no one with in 5 feet of him. I'm still sticking with my thoughts earlier in the year that he maybe the key to our season. He has to be this years Newman for us to make any type of run IMO. I don't wanna harp on him to bad as I said I think he's more in the game just needs to hit shots and stop with the TOs (lead team with 4 today).

I'm really starting to like this David/Mitch combo at the 5. I've been one of the guys screaming for Dave to get more minutes all season and think we are seeing it start to it pay off. He had some TOs again today but to me looks more comfortable every game he's in. Nice to see Dedric didn't have to carry us for once but still had a solid game.

@kjayhawks This definitely felt like one of Dave's better games.

@kjayhawks Grimes needs to focus on other things besides shooting. His defense is still really bad and his rebounding his bad for a guard his size. He is also a subpar passer right now. With a week until our next game, I'd have Grimes focus exclusively on one of those 3 things for Tech.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Very true, he's been more engaged but still has several things to work on. Hopefully Garrett is able to practice in a day or two and this group has a good week going into Saturday.

@Texas-Hawk-10 KJ had a nice game today. I think KJ could be the difference down the stretch. Q's continued lack of success may be impossible for him to overcome.

I'm starting to think a lineup of Dot/ Grimes or Garrett/Ochai/KJ/Big Dave might be a really good lineup for next year.

Do we want to win games, or play Grimes? It's really that simple. KJ was the superior player today. Garrett will be the superior player when he returns. It's mid-February.

Grimes needs to come off the bench. Period. This isn't even a question now. If he would be permanently damaged because he's so fragile psychologically, or he'd transfer, or whatever, so what.

This is the most flexible, softest I've seen Self with a player (not sure of the right term). But it's not patience. This isn't patience. It's something a little twisted ... a sadomasochistic patience. Painful to all involved.

If Grimes' switch goes on in a few weeks, this will be the most impressive bit of "letting a player develop" I've ever seen.

I love the idea of letting a player develop. But I'm not seeing any hints of development or progress. Am I wrong?

And I'm really liking Dave/Mitch at the 5, as well (@kjayhawks). Lot of activity. And man, we say this a lot, but Mitch is incredible blocking shots. He's one of the best I've ever seen.

Chris beard pissed at the dock move! Love that guy!

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

I think Q should play 10 - 15 minutes a game unless he catches fire or something. He just didn’t figure it out, and time is up. His shot is not even close. I said two games ago during a game chat that anything he gives the team from then on would be a bonus and that is still the case.

Imstillmthinkmthey need to win out for a share which isn’t likely, but Self needs to stop dicking around with Q.

@JonRothstein
Bill Self is the Ric Flair of the Big 12 and to be the man, you've got to beat the man. The streak is still alive --- for now.

@HighEliteMajor you are not wrong.

@HighEliteMajor It is very interesting that Self has pretty much said he's starting and that's that. Everyone says its for recruiting, which is silly to me, lets show guys you can be crap with no consequences. I worry that some of the other guys that have shown up for more than 1 game are starting to get mad. IMO Garrett should start ahead of Grimes when he is able to go. I really don't want to go back to a 4 guard line up at this point so hopefully self doesn't take Dave out of the line up. I'd rather Garrett come off the bench than that.

Bill must be seeing something out of Grimes. It’s unlike him to play a struggling freshman. It makes me think there is still hope for Grimes this season.

@Kcmatt7 Maybe Adidas gave him a big check and we have to keep him quiet. Sadly that's one of few logical explanations but at this point he could be the most overrated recruit we have ever had, people forget he was #8 in the country. To that in perspective Dotson was #20 and Ochai was a whopping #145. This is why I laugh when people say NBA draft this season for him. He's maybe, maybe the 6th best player on this team.

kjayhawks said:

I'm really starting to like this David/Mitch combo at the 5. I've been one of the guys screaming for Dave to get more minutes all season and think we are seeing it start to it pay off. He had some TOs again today but to me looks more comfortable every game he's in. Nice to see Dedric didn't have to carry us for once but still had a solid game.

I agree with ya - - - -The combination of Mitch & Dave - nothing super from them but you put the two together get like 15 points combined -- -right at 10 rebounds - - like 5 blocks a charge from guess who -a couple of steals ( David ) - really liking Coach Pull Dedric out away - and like they say opening the lane for Devon - spreading out - - Dedric hitting a lot better pct from 3 for Dedric - -love it

Question. When Marcus comes back - -does this effect Dave and Mitch in any way shape or Form? in the rotation ? - -for me - - I think w just need to roll with the way we are right now -- Keep that starting line up just like it is -- rotate your players just like you have been - -Just slide Marcus in the rotation. - -I would hate to think KJ minutes gets cut when Marcus returns - let Marcus come off the Bench right along with KJ - - - Marcus can play the 2 or 3- - - lets roll with what we got as they are. - -ROC CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 It's time to pull the rip cord- start Marcus, and have Grimes come off the bench. I'm not sure that it would hurt our shooting percent- it might even help it.

@KUSTEVE Garrett is better in every category besides 3 point shooting %. After today I think KJ may have a better 3 point % and he is better per minutes than Grimes by a lot. They both aren't great on defense lol. I'd say regardless of if Grimes starts or not he shouldn't be playing more than 15 minutes a game.

@HighEliteMajor I have to agree. At this point the Grimes experiment as a starter should be over.

The kid's shot is erratic. I dont see a confidence issue on his shot. I see a guy incapable of playing off ball. A player who is not comfortable with the catch and shoot and needs reps reps reps and more reps. Hell, I see a kid who might have benefited tremendously from a redshirt in an alternate universe. And with the emergency of Agbaji and Devon in their current form, what good is a wing who can't shoot and is slow on D? Devon, Agbaji and Garrett are all superior to Grimes in every way, save maybe one small point which is at this point splitting hairs. I believe Grimes is a superior passer (slightly) to Agbaji, but who cares? Earlier I was willing to see Grimes at point, but Devon is just too good there now. All ships have sailed on the Grimes experiment.

Charlie has even outplayed Grimes recently. I would not be shocked by a Q transfer in the off-season.

Dotson/Ochai/KJ/Dedric/Big Dave .....I think that would be the sweet spot.

@approxinfinity I don't get the whole he can't play without the ball thing. He was recruited as a SG, he is listed on every site as an SG that I can find. I just watched some of his HS film, he played off the ball a plenty, he wasn't their primary ball handler from what I've seen. His story on everything I read was streaky shot and lack of effort were his main issues and there both very evident at this time. I think he just he isn't near the athlete it looked like in HS. I realize was good for the USA team deal in the summer but the competition in that was mostly laughable. Most high level high school wouldn't have had trouble with more than 1 or 2 teams in that. Kinda like us kicking butt in Korea all but 2 games against Pros.

@kjayhawks you've done more recent research on him than I have. I was just going on the fact that when he has ball and steps into his shot or gets hit in the chest he can shoot. When he has to turn and shoot he can't hit anything. Its a stark difference.

@approxinfinity Grimes is simply inexplicable. Some have suggested he has been "more active" over the past few games.

Consider this. He has made exactly two buckets in each of the past 5 games. Over that span, he has averaged more TOs and fouls than FGs, RBs, or assists. He has made exactly ZERO FTs over those 5 games - only 2 attempts.

He made the first shot of the game tonight and then was 1-7. An early assist - and then the disappearing act - as has been the case in almost every game. He simply doesn't impact the game in any meaningful positive way. What is truly astonishing is that a guy who is 6'5" and 210lbs averages well less than 2 RBs a game on a team that needs everyone to contribute on the boards.

The "good news" is that he only played ~20 minutes - probably 2-5 minutes too many.

Self yells "you're soft" at Mitch. Mitch hasn't been soft for 2 weeks. Does Self yell "you're soft" at Grimes, I wonder? I'm sure he thinks it.

@approxinfinity Grimes is Charmin soft. HCBS must think that Mitch can handle it, but that Grimes not so much....

Tried to share a picture of all the former guys in town today but it wouldn't let me 😐

I wonder what happened there. You hit reply on someone's comment then hit the cloud with the arrow on it and chose the file from your machine @kjayhawks ? Or was this something you were trying to link to on other site?

Self challenging Mitch by yelling soft is his way of charging up his junior. Self must see Q as more fragile and knows Q needs more time to figure it out. A coach has to know which players benefit from criticism and which players would shrink from it.

stoptheflop said:

Self challenging Mitch by yelling soft is his way of charging up his junior. Self must see Q as more fragile and knows Q needs more time to figure it out. A coach has to know which players benefit from criticism and which players would shrink from it.

Absolutely. But surely on a team with such lofty expectations that must be very clear to Grimes, whether it's being yelled at him or not.

I don't think there is any shelter for Grimes.

@approxinfinity I agree with the other posters here: it's time for Q to take a back seat and for most of his minutes to be given to another player who's currently helping the team. I'd like to see KJ get more minutes.

@approxinfinity tried to use the cloud, screen shot on my phone.

@approxinfinity hopefully he gives Grimes the Bud Kilmer treatment lmao.

@approxinfinity he won't transfer. Either stay, enter draft or go overseas

@kjayhawks !0_1550366206604_EC4F6432-8968-4B26-B2B1-A7ECDD04ED47.jpeg ↗

kjayhawks said:

@Kcmatt7 Maybe Adidas gave him a big check and we have to keep him quiet. Sadly that's one of few logical explanations but at this point he could be the most overrated recruit we have ever had, people forget he was #8 in the country. To that in perspective Dotson was #20 and Ochai was a whopping #145. This is why I laugh when people say NBA draft this season for him. He's maybe, maybe the 6th best player on this team.

Adidas gave Oubre one and Bill was harder on him.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@approxinfinity he won't transfer. Either stay, enter draft or go overseas

Well I dont think entering the draft is a possibility at all. I know others have suggested someone will take a flier based on pedigree. He hasn't shown enough. Or rather, he's shown too much bad stuff. I just don't see it.

Overseas seems like a rough rough ride for this guy.

The only option I see is stay in college here or elsewhere.

If he goes to a smaller school where he can reset expectations, practice for a year to catch up with D-I while he sits out, and then get starter minutes a la Frankamp, it would be the best for him. It doesn't matter that he was a 5 star if he can't make baskets and his D is slow.

If he stays at Kansas, he's likely the 5th best guard next year. Self has to tell him "look Q, I gotta be honest.... we've got Issac coming in, and the kid can really shoot. I know Marcus can't shoot, but he's fast, long, passes well and is an elite defender... And Devon and Ochai.. well, you know. We're gonna have to work on your game really hard this Summer in a lot of areas".

Q will be back. Any other decision is setting him up for failure. I don’t think his family is that dumb.

@Kcmatt7 Whats your guess on minutes breakdown next year btwn Ochai, Devon, Issac, Marcus and Q? Do we go 4 guard again?

@approxinfinity just don't think he'll sit out and wait 2 years to go. Good guess?

@Crimsonorblue22 thank you

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Chris beard pissed at the dock move! Love that guy!

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

The TTU players got a bit caught up in the moment because SHOCKINGLY a team coached by Scotty Drew wasn't just letting them dribble it out.

approxinfinity said:

@Kcmatt7 Whats your guess on minutes breakdown next year btwn Ochai, Devon, Issac, Marcus and Q? Do we go 4 guard again?

I have absolutely no idea tbh. So many variables at this point.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@approxinfinity he won't transfer. Either stay, enter draft or go overseas

Correct.

approxinfinity said:

Self yells "you're soft" at Mitch. Mitch hasn't been soft for 2 weeks. Does Self yell "you're soft" at Grimes, I wonder? I'm sure he thinks it.

Self is usually pretty good at know what buttons to push. Sometimes he breaks kids though (Bragg for example).

HighEliteMajor said:

Do we want to win games, or play Grimes? It's really that simple. KJ was the superior player today. Garrett will be the superior player when he returns. It's mid-February.

Grimes needs to come off the bench. Period. This isn't even a question now. If he would be permanently damaged because he's so fragile psychologically, or he'd transfer, or whatever, so what.

This is the most flexible, softest I've seen Self with a player (not sure of the right term). But it's not patience. This isn't patience. It's something a little twisted ... a sadomasochistic patience. Painful to all involved.

If Grimes' switch goes on in a few weeks, this will be the most impressive bit of "letting a player develop" I've ever seen.

I love the idea of letting a player develop. But I'm not seeing any hints of development or progress. Am I wrong?

And I'm really liking Dave/Mitch at the 5, as well (@kjayhawks). Lot of activity. And man, we say this a lot, but Mitch is incredible blocking shots. He's one of the best I've ever seen.

I can't help but think there are politics involved with Grimes. Ie he is simply too highly ranked/too good of a pedigree to sit. Because based on level of play he should be right there on the bench with Chuck. If Grimes wasn't so damn slow you could justify him playing over KJ more (KJ is also quite slow) but KJ is just playing basketball better right now.

I'm beating a dead horse at this point but Mitch is an elite shot blocker. If he qualified on Kenpom (he doesn't because he hasn't played enough minutes) he would be top 60 in block rate. And he is down about 2% in that area this year.

@BShark but do they look better cause of the quality of teams we r playing? Or, have they gotten better?

@Crimsonorblue22 Both. WVU is terrible and OSU is terrible but still played well in those games. Winning on the road in Fort Worth I don't think happens with Vick on the roster. Passing has been good, playing like a team. Effort is contagious etc...

Will be interesting to see the game down in Lubbock next Saturday.

@Crimsonorblue22 Sportsmanship is fool's gold.

hee hee

There a lot to think about with Grimes. I thought he got overranked at the time. But it’s surprising how unathletic he’s been. I personally think he’s probably carrying 10 or more extra pounds that need to come off this summer.

I also just trust Self in this scenario. It took Self pressing buttons all the way through the conference tourney to get Newman going.

Kcmatt7 said:

There a lot to think about with Grimes. I thought he got overranked at the time. But it’s surprising how unathletic he’s been. I personally think he’s probably carrying 10 or more extra pounds that need to come off this summer.

I also just trust Self in this scenario. It took Self pressing buttons all the way through the conference tourney to get Newman going.

Sorry, I just don't see the Newman comp. Newman made poor decisions, looked sped up, trying to be the hero, but the athleticism never seemed in question. Grimes doesn't do too much, he does too little!

@Crimsonorblue22 Nice! Is that Kevin Young with the glasses and the 'fro in the middle?

KUSTEVE said:

Did I hear Frannie right...that he thinks we're going to go a long way in the tournament? Ok, what the hell is going on...did hell freeze over?

Last game he said sweet 16 ot E8 at least.

approxinfinity said:

Kcmatt7 said:

There a lot to think about with Grimes. I thought he got overranked at the time. But it’s surprising how unathletic he’s been. I personally think he’s probably carrying 10 or more extra pounds that need to come off this summer.

I also just trust Self in this scenario. It took Self pressing buttons all the way through the conference tourney to get Newman going.

Sorry, I just don't see the Newman comp. Newman made poor decisions, looked sped up, trying to be the hero, but the athleticism never seemed in question. Grimes doesn't do too much, he does too little!

Newman was a ghost for 90% of the season is what I was getting at.

@tundrahok yes

@Crimsonorblue22 nice photo! Is that Teahan next to Gueldner? And I forgot the big guy’s name next to him...isn’t he a doctor now?

So happy to see this team on the winning side of a blowout. I know Huggy Bear’s boys were undermanned, but happy to see us share the ball, play with some freedom.

— Jacque back in da house!!! Can’t recall the last time he was around. New assistant next year???

— I wonder if Pollard would make a good coach. Always solid in the post.

— Malik looked tall.

Back to the game...

— KJ! Did he look good or did he just make shots? No comment (says the KJ basher).

— Grimes had a sweet dish underneath...and nothing else.

— I’m officially happy with the team and rotation. Do not allow Vick to even come back to clean out his room, please.

— Big Dave is a giant, currently semi talentless spaznoid. But I love him!

— Mitch and Ochai need to be in an energy drink commercial.

— The Ochai baseline dunk made me smile.

— I refuse to read another NCAA corruption story the rest of the year.

— Love to see Dotson’s growing confidence.

— Even Fran was even keeled tonight!

@stoptheflop We're close to being good...maybe even really good. If there is a way we could work KJ in over Q, we could take that next step as a team. We would vastly improve our rebounding, we would have better 3 point shooters in the game, and the ball would flow better offensively. Defensively, we'd be better.This is a no brainer. Garrett would be much better than Q... even with the poor shooting. It's time to pull the rip cord, Bill.

approxinfinity said:

@HighEliteMajor I have to agree. At this point the Grimes experiment as a starter should be over.

The kid's shot is erratic. I dont see a confidence issue on his shot. I see a guy incapable of playing off ball. A player who is not comfortable with the catch and shoot and needs reps reps reps and more reps. Hell, I see a kid who might have benefited tremendously from a redshirt in an alternate universe. And with the emergency of Agbaji and Devon in their current form, what good is a wing who can't shoot and is slow on D? Devon, Agbaji and Garrett are all superior to Grimes in every way, save maybe one small point which is at this point splitting hairs. I believe Grimes is a superior passer (slightly) to Agbaji, but who cares? Earlier I was willing to see Grimes at point, but Devon is just too good there now. All ships have sailed on the Grimes experiment.

Charlie has even outplayed Grimes recently. I would not be shocked by a Q transfer in the off-season.

OH I would agree with MOST of what you said - - BUT your Point about Charlie -- -oh hell no - no way- - no shape - - no form - -Charlie is not close to Q - - Q can play like he has been and STILL be better. - - Charlies shot selection at times look really suspect - -I mean he just launches - -very unaware of time on the clock - -where he is on the floor - - the scenario situation of game situation - -na just not happening.

Q is not transferring - - if anything he will be another idiot that would go ahead and try to go NBA - -which he is not even within a sniff of right now - that would be the worse mistake he could make -BUT he would never transfer to another College and have to sit a year -- He either goes ahead and tires to play in NBA - which he would never make it at this stage -- -OR - -he will come back to KU. - -Hell chances are a lot better for Charlie to transfer if anyone does that then Q - - plus as we know NBA drafts on Potential. - I respect your opinion but mine - - NO WAY is Charlie better then Quentin Grimes

KUSTEVE said:

Dotson/Ochai/KJ/Dedric/Big Dave .....I think that would be the sweet spot.

I've always thought KJ was a little better then being given credit for. - -Think w are now starting to see a more relaxed KJ - - - quality minutes -- instead of mop up - I think KJ can help for sure in the remainder of the season

I'm liking the chemistry of this team - -the way minutes are being used now-c - -I say let's roll with these - -think team is finding it's self with the way Bill is now rolling the offense. -- Pulling Dedric out on the floor? - - Very nice

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@approxinfinity he won't transfer. Either stay, enter draft or go overseas

Exactly

KUSTEVE said:

@stoptheflop We're close to being good...maybe even really good. If there is a way we could work KJ in over Q, we could take that next step as a team. We would vastly improve our rebounding, we would have better 3 point shooters in the game, and the ball would flow better offensively. Defensively, we'd be better.This is a no brainer. Garrett would be much better than Q... even with the poor shooting. It's time to pull the rip cord, Bill.

KJ is absolutely one of the best 7 players on the team right now.

So I’m wondering why Q wouldn’t transfer if he felt KU wasn’t the place for him? Staying here is the best option I think we all agree. Why would the other options be better the staying in CBB? Simply sitting a year in the life of one’s career seems a minuscule sacrifice.

I sure hope he stays.

HighEliteMajor said:

So I’m wondering why Q wouldn’t transfer if he felt KU wasn’t the place for him? Staying here is the best option I think we all agree. Why would the other options be better the staying in CBB? Simply sitting a year in the life of one’s career seems a minuscule sacrifice.

I sure hope he stays.

He is much more likely to go pro than transfer. And I also hope he stays as bad as he has been this year.

@jayhawkcsg Christian Mooooody. Our favorite walk-on starter.

kjayhawks said:

@approxinfinity tried to use the cloud, screen shot on my phone.

Hmm. Maybe it got posted too fast, didn't have time to process the Pic? Usually that "uploading " text goes away after 100%

@HighEliteMajor agreed. A transfer doesn't seem illogical. I'd love to keep depth on the wings but where is the line on the depth chart that Q is unwilling to fall below? Or is this starter spot guaranteed for another year?

Again Q is NOT transferring anywhere - like others have said on this today - -if he leaves the program - the only thing he is going is declaring for the NBA - -which would be laughable but the only way he is going anywhere. - -He isn't for sure wanna transfer and sit for a year before he declares -- he will be back - you can bank on it. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 You seem quite confident that Q won't transfer and I've read this board (and the old site) long enough to know you have good instincts. However, I'm wondering if you have some inside knowledge.

bcjayhawk said:

@jayballer73 You seem quite confident that Q won't transfer and I've read this board (and the old site) long enough to know you have good instincts. However, I'm wondering if you have some inside knowledge.

It's just logic my friend for 1 thing. - If you really step back an just look - -this kid DOES have the talent , he has just really struggled during his freshman year - -just like Soo many others that struggle to make that transition from High School to a major Div 1 school he by far isn't the only very quality player to struggle. -But think. Here you have this kid that's going from Being the man - -the stud - -pretty much at will doing whatever on the floor at High School - - and being the center of attention around the campus - being " THE STAR " comes to KU - -goes out the 1st game lights it up - -and thinking ya - - OAD - easy I've got this - -then comes out struggles - - misses a shot here -- misses a shot there - - a TO here - -follow me ? -Then things become harder - - finds out that the moves he was able to get a way with in High School isn't going to cut it on this D1 level - players just AS GOOD as him if not better - - he starts to force things in stead of just going out and doing what he did best - -just another case of where a player just stats to think - -TO MUCH - -just go out and play - -do your thing - -flo -just let it go

Transfer - - NO WAY- - The way I see it - - and now he believes it whether right or wrong - - Quentin has heard so much about being a OAD - -there is no way a once more likely then not - -OAD = is he gonna accept transfer where he has to sit out a year - -that means this once considered OAD - would now have played a year of College -then if transferring have to sit yet ANOTHER year - -. - -and he is not going to transfer out to a smaller school -- just won't happen - - - People have to know the talent is there - he has just struggled- -then believe I o not kids hear/read peoples comments on social media - -just adds to the pressure.

IF Quentin leaves it will be to the NBA Draft -- would be a real bonehead move - -but as people know they draft on potential - -could be their still telling him they would take a shot on him -- This kid IS talented - - no we not really seen it - -well we saw the 1st game and just went nuts - from then on we expected maybe to much - - Sorry about the question - -NO no inside information -- just my thoughts - -gut feeling - usually get a gut feeling on things but I have none of this - -well I got a friend - -of a friend - -who has a fiend - -that has a friend that's got hot inside info buddy but thanks for your compliment - -of me being pretty good or inside greatly appreciated.

No buddy - -I truly feel that Q will be back - -wok on his game right here. -- Trust me he not going ANYWHERE - - if I'm wrong - -you can hit me hard -- -let me have it - I can take it - -it will be ok - -if I'm wrong -- I'm wrong --but I'm just not seeing it. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 My opinion. Most logical result - he comes back. Second most logical - he transfers. His performance in fact demonstrates he is in no position to do anything professionally right now. A guy with allegedly high talent needs to develop. It’s that simple. Too many examples of 3-4 year players that develop sufficiently and succeed professionally. Too many examples of high profile flameouts who prematurely go pro.

@HighEliteMajor obviously the guy has loads of talent. He has found success clearly in the past. But I would submit it's more of an effort and attitude issue right now. Does that fix is the question. The decision to stay here would suggest yes it could. Any other decision to my mind says no. Which will end up being an epic waste of God given talent.

Ironic thing is Grimes would be great as a Jr. at KU. The same season he would become eligible for a team after transferring. I really hope he sticks around, this freshman core could be special as upperclassmen, maybe sooner.

@HighEliteMajor The guys that stayed longer at KU (3-4 yrs), in general have done better and had longer NBA careers than the OADs. The exceptions will be Wiggs and Joel.

Stayed: Pierce, Rush, Chalmers, Collison, Raef, Pollard, Gooden, The Twins, Cole, Vaugn, Withy, Frank, Wayne?

OAD with strong NBA: Wiggs, Joel, Josh?, Oubre? (not sure the last two will be strong careers)

TRob is the outlier for one who stayed but never really stuck in the NBA. With his motor and rebounding, that one never made sense to me.

Wait and see: Devonte, Svi, and Frank

@cragarhawk You said about Grimes, "But I would submit it’s more of an effort and attitude issue right now." Agree completely. All you need to do is watch Agbaji go after a rebound and realize all Grimes has to do is give that effort. I'm sure the coaching staff has pointed this out to him. The lack of effort much of the time makes it curious to me why he holds his position in the starting lineup. I've never seen anything like this from coach Self in what he accepts from a player.

@Fightsongwriter Great list. It seems a no brainer to me for Q to stay here. The only thing that even causes us a second thought is the somewhat arbitrary #8 ranking. If he was #38, it would just be assumed that he'd stay. And I wonder if he'd still be starting if that were the case.

@Fightsongwriter Oubre will be a 15 year guy.

Josh on the other hand, no bueno. He looks like he will get washed out soon.

You also forgot Henry. Who washed out. Diallo who seems like he is likely on a path to overseas. Cliff never had a chance. Selby washed right out.

OADs have not been good to Self. I don't think you ever stop recruiting the best players though. You just can't recruit sketchy ones. Which is basically all the ones we have landed.. Which is why we are in the trouble we currently are in.

Mitch showing up for Tech Saturday, who's soft now?
!0_1550592458503_20190219_100729.jpg ↗

@Kcmatt7 You said, "OADs have not been good to Self."

Maybe, if we are just looking from the outside, Self has not been good to OADs.

It's long been my position. Self is not the best manager of the OAD player. We've had one really good one that fit our team, seemed to satisfy Bill Self (a big one), was not a drama queen, and was a team player -- Josh Jackson.

@Kcmatt7 actually i didn't. I left off the wash outs. I prob should have left off josh.

Josh and diallo have both been doing better.

Selden has also been doing better in Chicago.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Kcmatt7 You said, "OADs have not been good to Self."

Maybe, if we are just looking from the outside, Self has not been good to OADs.

It's long been my position. Self is not the best manager of the OAD player. We've had one really good one that fit our team, seemed to satisfy Bill Self (a big one), was not a drama queen, and was a team player -- Josh Jackson.

Oh I fully agree with this.

Bill Self is a break them down, build them up coach. He is incapable of developing a player over just one year's time.

From what I know about the program, Bill Self is as hard on his players as anyone in the country. Several times in the past 15 years has he almost literally come to blows with players. I do not think most OAD players respond well to this. Hell, basically no freshman respond to this under Self. Only the truly special players who come here with a chip on their shoulders have exceeded expectations as a freshman.

Because of Bill's style of coaching and player development, I do not think OAD guys ultimately give him their best. They know all they have to do is survive Self, put up 10 points a game, flash some potential, and they are out of here. As Self put it with Josh, "he unpacked his bags." Which is why JJ was the best OAD under Self to date.

It is certainly a problem with most of the OADs we recruit. Henry, Preston, Cliff, Diallo, Selby, Oubre and Wiggins were all guys who 100% took money already and knew they were going pro no matter what. So Self's style doesn't work with them. Calling those guys every name in the book is not going to motivate them. Challenging their manhood does nothing for them.

But, this is the style that Self has chosen for his program.

There is another style of coaching philosophy though. There is break them down. But then there is also what I'll refer to as feeding the ego.

This is the K and Cal approach with young players.

These guys come in, knowing they are the greatest players in CBB. And K and Cal continue telling them that. They pat them on the back. The leave them in for 30 minutes a game and tell them no shot is a bad shot. Eventually, this does two things.

The first, it build their confidence. They aren't worried if they screw up, they just continue playing basketball and will fix their mistakes later or learn from them for the next time.

The second, it creates a scenario where the players then crave praise. They need the praise. So they play harder. RJ plays harder because Zion got K's praise for doing something because he needs the praise. Herro stays in the gym because Baker was getting praise for his shooting. The players start craving this praise. And that is how the coaches are able to push their buttons.

We have seen that this second strategy doesn't always work. Some guys just aren't competitive enough to push themselves. Sometimes freshman just aren't physically capable of carrying a team. But, as we have seen when either of them are able to put together a special group of OADs, they become exceptional teams.

Now, back to Q. As we have talked about, Self has given him quite a long leash.... But I sort of think that is a facade. Self is giving him PT. At the same time, I think Self is likely harder on him than anyone else on the team. What do you think film sessions are like? What do you think practices are like? I firmly believe Self absolutely destroyed Q's confidence very early in the season. He broke him.

Watch just a minute of this video :

Have you, even once, seen Q do anything remotely close to anything in this video? Look at the flare. Look at the confidence. Look at the ELEVATION. Look at the attacking of the rim. You can see the talent. Hell, he looks 100 times more athletic in this video than at any point this season.

The Q we have right now looks like he had a head injury that made him forget how to play basketball. He seems so worried that he's going to do something wrong and get the stick from Self that he's not playing with any bit of confidence. He is so concerned with where he is supposed to be on the court, that making instinctual plays at this point is impossible.

To me, Q carries himself like a neglected child who only wants to here "I love you" from his dad. But he never did hear it. So now we are stuck with this lifeless version of Q who may never reach his full potential, and it certainly appears like he won't this season. It's unfortunate, as I think Q does have the abilities to be a great player, and I think this team is that one player short of being able to do something potentially special in the tournament...

@Kcmatt7 nice write bud. Imagining those film sessions was not a pretty sight :joy:

While I agree that Q looks like he is lacking in confidence more than anything else, I think the bigger culprit is the improved competition. His crossovers in those highlights just aren't devastating his opponents in the same way in college. He can't simply elevate over defenders on step backs. When has he ever beat anyone down the floor for a transition bucket? His speed just isn't elite and that's why we all love Dotson. Even vs. MSU, the game most regard as Q's best of the year, all his buckets came on catch and shoot 3s (6-10). He didn't go by people. He still only had 1 rebound.

Interestingly the one aspect from the highlight reel that is showing up on the court is his vision. He is routinely making at least one or two GREAT passes per game right now.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Kcmatt7 You said, "OADs have not been good to Self."

Maybe, if we are just looking from the outside, Self has not been good to OADs.

It's long been my position. Self is not the best manager of the OAD player. We've had one really good one that fit our team, seemed to satisfy Bill Self (a big one), was not a drama queen, and was a team player -- Josh Jackson.

I actually completely agree with this. Self has done his absolute best work with 3-4 year guys. The history speaks for itself.

Q will never be fast like he appeared in high school. What is making it worse is that he cant make a jump shot. Anyone who has played knows that when your known as a shooter your first step becomes that much better because defenders are closing out fast on you. Nobody in their right mind is closing out fast on Q.

@Kcmatt7 I agree with your characterization of HCBS's approach of "break them down and build them up" - and, how it contrasts with K and Cal and how it may not work with perhaps more fragile egos. But, it seems that the issue may be more than just lack of confidence. It may be that Grimes doesn't have quite the skill set or mental fortitude that his HS stats, the video and his class ranking would otherwise suggest. Perhaps competition (or lack thereof in Houston) as @benshawks08 suggests may be part of the problem.

When I look at the video, what I see is a decent handle, good vision and passing ability, a solid looking stroke, and pretty good hops. But, what I really don't see is him attacking the rim - unless he has a clear path. In all but the last image, whenever he is driving toward the basket and there is a body somewhere in the way, he either falls away or throws up a floater. He simply doesn't go at anyone with authority or purpose. And, that's against players that were mostly smaller than him - at least not the size and bulk he is up against every game in D1. And, that has clearly been an issue during his tenure here - he seems to shy away from ANY kind of contact (whether driving, defending or rebounding).

Whatever the root cause, his lack of production across the board is actually stunning, esp. for someone as highly ranked as he was. There are 6 players on the team who have averaged between 26 and 33 minutes per game (including Vick for this purpose). Of those six, he is second to last in PPG (barely ahead of Garrett), last in RBs, next to last in assists, last in steals, last in FG%, last in FT% and second to last in 3pt%.

He is 4th on the team in total minutes played. Yet, he is 9th on the team in total offensive rebounds. He's 6'5" and 210 lbs for goodness sake - on a team that needs everyone to contributed on the glass. He has just 11 offensive rebounds the entire season. He's 6th on the team in steals. He has attempted just 38 FTs all season.

Confidence can affect your shot. It can affect whether or when you shoot. But, confidence shouldn't really come into play fighting for position, battling for rebounds, diving for the loose balls and so on.

He may not ever be what we thought he would be - but he should and hopefully still can be much better that what he has shown through the first 26 games of his freshman year. Whether he is too broken, or whether he can be built back up, I guess time will tell....

DCHawker said:

Confidence can affect your shot. It can affect whether or when you shoot. But, confidence shouldn't really come into play fighting for position, battling for rebounds, diving for the loose balls and so on.

I can agree with or at least understand most of what you wrote. But this, I do not. Confidence influences your entire game. It's funny how well a guy can play for an entire game if he hits a few shots to start the game. On both ends.

While I think to most, it looks as though Q has a lack of effort, I would argue that isn't the case. He basically doesn't contribute, as you pointed out. But I really don't think it is due to a lack of effort. I think he has a lack of aggressiveness DUE to his lack of confidence. At this point, I think all of his basketball instincts are being second guessed.There are times it literally looks like he has never played the game, and it leaves you scratching your head. It isn't like he has zero basketball IQ. You see him make a great pass almost every game.

The moment we see Q quit thinking and just start playing, he will be a 15 PPG, 5 Ast guy. I have no doubt that he is capable of it.

@KirkIsMyHinrich I would have guessed Kirk Hinrich.....

@Kcmatt7 Excellent post above, and nice follow up from @DCHawker.

This is a puzzling case.

The "improved competition" might be an issue as @benshawks08 mentioned (and as @Texas-Hawk-10 has brought up Houston in particular). I don't buy the Houston thing. the guy played AAU ball. I doubt Agbaji's KC area competition was worse than Houston. Or Ellis/Frankamp's Wichita competition when they played there.

But the competition thing generally may be the key -- as more broadly referenced by @benshawks08. Guys who play in Chicago take a huge step up to D-1 competition. It's a big difference.

Again, if he's the #38 player, then we're more patient.

Maybe, Grimes just isn't that good yet. Overrated to begin with. Looked good at a certain level, but needs more time to push to the next level. Seems reasonable.

That could impact confidence, and create the mess between the ears we've suspected.

Patience is the key with all of that. The best thing for Q might be just getting the season over.

I've suspected he might be homesick, too. Looking for answers is all.

I'm sorry, though. I don't care what it is, you can bust your a** for a rebound. You can block out. You can dive on the floor. If there is such mental fragility that you can't do that, man, there are other lines of work.

We need to win. Q to the bench. Go with the guys that can give you the best chance to win. This is winning time. Development time has concluded.

Q played 22 minutes last game - KJ played 24. And this was without Garrett. I think the process is well under way to fade Q as the season goes along.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Kcmatt7 Excellent post above, and nice follow up from @DCHawker.

This is a puzzling case.

The "improved competition" might be an issue as @benshawks08 mentioned (and as @Texas-Hawk-10 has brought up Houston in particular). I don't buy the Houston thing. the guy played AAU ball. I doubt Agbaji's KC area competition was worse than Houston. Or Ellis/Frankamp's Wichita competition when they played there.

But the competition thing generally may be the key -- as more broadly referenced by @benshawks08. Guys who play in Chicago take a huge step up to D-1 competition. It's a big difference.

Again, if he's the #38 player, then we're more patient.

Maybe, Grimes just isn't that good yet. Overrated to begin with. Looked good at a certain level, but needs more time to push to the next level. Seems reasonable.

That could impact confidence, and create the mess between the ears we've suspected.

Patience is the key with all of that. The best thing for Q might be just getting the season over.

I've suspected he might be homesick, too. Looking for answers is all.

I'm sorry, though. I don't care what it is, you can bust your a** for a rebound. You can block out. You can dive on the floor. If there is such mental fragility that you can't do that, man, there are other lines of work.

We need to win. Q to the bench. Go with the guys that can give you the best chance to win. This is winning time. Development time has concluded.

The 2018 class was really bad. I'd say overall we are fortunate that Dotson was as advertised and Agbaji ended up a hidden gem. When you have Grimes in the top 15 and McCormack is top 35 that says it all about the class. Of course, none of that excuses Grimes not playing hard.

Basically there is Zion at the top, cataclysmic gulf then Barrett, then a titanic gulf to the rest. Oddly enough, Duke gets those top two guys. Color me shocked. :rolling_eyes:

To your AAU point, Agbaji wasn't even good in AAU. He barely played for Mokan from what I remember reading.

@Kcmatt7 Holy crap. Who and where's that guy we see in the mixtape video?
Must be that the competition wasn't up to snuff. Dallas area not known for good, quality players? K-Freeze! right?
Agree with other posters...if he sees what Ochai does on the boards, no reason he can't get in the mix. Unless it's not in his nature. hopefully that's fixable.
He just seems like a guy who isn't ready yet. that's all. give him another summer to get stronger, learn how to assert himself. Hopefully he stays.

Edit: I see he's from the Houston area. my bad. even worse!

BeddieKU23 said:

Dotson is Frank reincarnated

I'm a monster Frank fan.... but wow... Dot far exceeds Frank as a freshman. Not even close. We have to consider that Frank wasn't a natural PG. Frank came to Lawrence as a volume scorer shooting guard. Remember how he struggled to adjust?

It's so refreshing that Dot came to us already as a solid PG. I mentioned this early... I can't recall a better freshman PG EVER at Kansas!

What I'm wondering... will his smaller size keep him in college for 4 years? Right now, I think we can keep him through his junior year. Of course, it always matters how we do in the NCAA tourney. When we go far it helps all our guys get more league attention.

@drgnslayr 5 Stars baby! :star: :star: :star: :star: :star:

The Ochai situation is what I don't understand. He seems like the best player on the floor at times. He's so fast and strong and confident. How was he a red shirt? How is he doing what he's doing now? When will the league catch up to him and start shutting him down? I just don't get it.

DCHawker said:

"He simply doesn't go at anyone with authority or purpose."

Maybe Grimes is too nice, ala Perry Ellis. He needs to get ornery!

@benshawks08 When they first yanked off the red shirt...both Self and even his Mom commented on how much he had improved since he joined the team. I have to believe that this is truly part of the equation. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense at all.

I think the mix tape shows his skills inside the 3-point line. Really all of his best moments besides vs Mich St. game have been inside the 3 pt line. If I made a list of players that should focus on the rest of their game, then look for the 3:

1. Charlie
2. Charles
3. Chuck
4. Grimes

I do think Grimes is big-time and will eventually get it rolling. And I have nothing against Charlie, but his shot looks quick, short and off from the get go, it kinda looks like nerves or ???? I'm not a coach, I just wish he would stop after 3 misses. Not on track today, so drive and dish. I really think Grimes could average close to 4 assists a game.

@JayhawksandChill haha I like what you did there. I can always handle a guy not shooting well but you have to do the little things first. Grimes only averaging 2 rebounds at his size is a travesty. Charlie can be a good passer, he just needs to look for guys when he is off, which has been every game but 2.

DCHawker said:

When I look at the video, what I see is a decent handle, good vision and passing ability, a solid looking stroke, and pretty good hops. But, what I really don't see is him attacking the rim - unless he has a clear path. In all but the last image, whenever he is driving toward the basket and there is a body somewhere in the way, he either falls away or throws up a floater. He simply doesn't go at anyone with authority or purpose. And, that's against players that were mostly smaller than him - at least not the size and bulk he is up against every game in D1. And, that has clearly been an issue during his tenure here - he seems to shy away from ANY kind of contact (whether driving, defending or rebounding).

That paragraph highlights what I think happened to Q. Look back at the 2nd or 3rd game of the season. Every time he drove he got called for a charge. If memory serves this continued at a dwindling pace as he began to quit going at people. He wasn't able to adapt to the faster, quicker, higher talent level of D1 ball quickly enough and its got into his head. Missing his outside shots didn't help his cause any as well and he got tentative and sped up. In this particular case I don't think Self tore him down I think he did it to himself and Self is trying, and probably praying, that he digs his way back out.

@Kubie It seems like half of Q’s drives are charges. He’s slow. I had hoped he would be just reacting at this point in the season to speed him up some. It’s not the case though and he’s physically slow and thinking too much also.