🏀 KuBuckets Archive

For those that haven't paid attention to anything other then KU.

Tech- Opened the season playing 2 powder puffs. 2-0. Plays 3 more until Iowa (11/28) & Louisville (12/10). As usual they play practically no one before conference play.

Baylor- Crushed in game 1 but blew a big lead against Washington and is 1-1. Should have beat UW.

Texas- Easy game in the opener, beat an over ranked Purdue squad in game 2 on the road. Nice to see Andrew Jones back after his fight with Cancer. The road victory at Purdue will be big for them come tourney time.

Iowa St- Easy opener followed by a loss to Oregon St. Not good.

Oklahoma won their opener and followed it up with a W against Minnesota. They won't play a ranked team currently until end of January.

K-ST- Won a closer then expected opener then needed OT to beat a bad UNLV squad. They are not good, at all.

OSU- Struggled in the opener but won by 5. Beat UMKC by 18 over the weekend.

TCU- Beat a D-3 team in the opener. Enough said.

West Virginia- Beat Akron by 10 in the opener. Scored 94, gave up 84. Has Huggy lost the defense??? Non Conference schedule is horrible until late December when they play Ohio St.

ISU played the team Utah beat by 94 in game one. They probably wouldn't even be a good dii team. Typical weak schedules for the league outside of KU.

@BShark that should tell Bryce all he needs to know

I watched Baylor. Refs seriously engineered that game to WA. Observation...BU guards and bigs on whole seem better than our allotment. Esp their bigs. Our wings are better.

Charlie Moore playing on FS1 right now against Iowa.

Fightsongwriter said:

I watched Baylor. Refs seriously engineered that game to WA. Observation...BU guards and bigs on whole seem better than our allotment. Esp their bigs. Our wings are better.

Yeah but Scotty Drew.

wissox said:

Charlie Moore playing on FS1 right now against Iowa.

DePaul killin it right now

@jayballer73 Yeah, I love it. 22 point blowout so far. Refs trying to give gifts to the suckeyes and they're still not doing anything with it.

wissox said:

@jayballer73 Yeah, I love it. 22 point blowout so far. Refs trying to give gifts to the suckeyes and they're still not doing anything with it.

Depaul not looking bad

Texas Tech plays here at Depaul in a few weeks. Not sure I'll be able to go but this game has me really intrigued about Depaul.

wissox said:

Texas Tech plays here at Depaul in a few weeks. Not sure I'll be able to go but this game has me really intrigued about Depaul.

looks like a bunch of free ballers - -wide open flow

Houston is on espn3 tmrw, I’m anxious to see grimes.

I'm anxious to go into Morgantown, Ames and Manhattan this year. It's payback time! Guess it will be that at most of the Big 12 venues...

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Houston is on espn3 tmrw, I’m anxious to see grimes.

ya I'll have to check that out too

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Houston is on espn3 tmrw, I’m anxious to see grimes.

Yea that’s on my list too. Just behind raking the leaves in this ridiculously cold weather and the stomach flu. Well, ok, ahead of the stomach flu. 🤔

HighEliteMajor said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Houston is on espn3 tmrw, I’m anxious to see grimes.

Yea that’s on my list too. Just behind raking the leaves in this ridiculously cold weather and the stomach flu. Well, ok, ahead of the stomach flu. 🤔

I raked my leaves for the 2nd time this weekend - -but the wind blowing overnight last night and today you could never tell it. - -Sooo round 3 this weekend - -great lol. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I live in a neighborhood shaded with huge oak trees. I wait it out on raking until other neighbors get started because otherwise I'm the guy who has to rake up most of the leaves in the neighborhood because of the wind.

drgnslayr said:

I live in a neighborhood shaded with huge oak trees. I wait it out on raking until other neighbors get started because otherwise I'm the guy who has to rake up most of the leaves in the neighborhood because of the wind.

boy I hear you there. - -I got a cottin picking Maple tree almost right out front my front door - - -covers the entire yard almost with leaves

Not Big 12 action BUT our beloved Kentucky wildcats lmao. - - We think Doke terrible shooting Free throws ? - - - -Check out whitney Whitey or whatever the hell his name is for Kentucky. - -2-7 on the year and mercy hope they have extra backboards - -real heat checks missiles - - really really ugly

Good game to watch -- Memphis and Oregon at 8:00 -Oklahoma on at 10:00

@jayballer73 Kentucky is struggling a bit in the first half.

Didn't realize BUT Sam Cunliffe killing Kentucky. - - we remember Sam Cunliffe don't we ? - -Arizona State - - - KU -- -7 Now Evansville. - -He score 15 points in the 1st half against Kentucky

rockchalkwyo said:

@jayballer73 Kentucky is struggling a bit in the first half.

Ya Cunliffe is killing them - transferred from KU now at Evansville

Should I feel bad that I don’t remember him?

It's hard to get a read on a lot of teams so far this year. I don't think I have seen anyone that I was really impressed with so far. Teams that have looked good have looked good against very weak teams. Those that have played strong opponents have generally looked fairly shaky, even in wins. Lots of bad basketball all around so far.

rockchalkwyo said:

Should I feel bad that I don’t remember him?

been just a couple of years ago he was here at KU played for Arizona State before us - -the reason you don't remember him cause he barely saw the floor - - I know he was here on our 2017-18 roster.

@rockchalkwyo yes!

@Crimsonorblue22 With the way he’s playing tonight I would have to agree.

@justanotherfan Michigan State was supposed to be great but then they went and lost to Kentucky who we are seeing has their own issues as well. I'd say I don't really see 1-2 teams that have separated themselves at this point.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@rockchalkwyo yes!

Nah. Cunliffe suuuuucked.

People will look at his points tonight but he also has 6 turnovers and 0 asts.

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@rockchalkwyo yes!

Nah. Cunliffe suuuuucked.

People will look at his points tonight but he also has 6 turnovers and 0 asts.

kind of hard to say a guy sucks when he didn't even hardly touch the floor at Ku - -you can't say a guy sucks in probably 10 whole minutes while he was here. - tell ya what - -doubt you hear Kentucky saying he sucks -he ate them a new ass in the 1st half of this game lmao

I stand by my yes! Clutch throws

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I stand by my yes! Clutch throws

Who do you kick off the current team for him. Maybe he's better than Braun right now but long term I don't like that move.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I stand by my yes! Clutch throws

Huge game for Sam - -CLUTCH TIME

@BShark for Sam?, nobody

@Crimsonorblue22 Yeah that's what I thought. ;)

I can't blame anyone for not remembering him. He barely played.

Achiuwa looks like a presence...

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@rockchalkwyo yes!

Nah. Cunliffe suuuuucked.

People will look at his points tonight but he also has 6 turnovers and 0 asts.

Would have been nice if Bill ever switched to a 4 guard for real.

@Kcmatt7 1 year of him or 3-4 of Jalen.

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@rockchalkwyo yes!

Nah. Cunliffe suuuuucked.

People will look at his points tonight but he also has 6 turnovers and 0 asts.

Would have been nice if Bill ever switched to a 4 guard for real.

Next year is the year. Perfect roster for it.

BShark said:

@Kcmatt7 1 year of him or 3-4 of Jalen.

Honestly a tough decision imo.

I’m just not big on Jalen.

Slow footed below the rim player.

Kentucky's 52 game streak of not losing to unranked at home - - -GONE. -- 1st win against a # 1 team for Evansville

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

@Kcmatt7 1 year of him or 3-4 of Jalen.

Honestly a tough decision imo.

Basically a high impact this year, better chance of a natty vs more long term stability as we weather the NOA storm.

BShark said:

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

@Kcmatt7 1 year of him or 3-4 of Jalen.

Honestly a tough decision imo.

Basically a high impact this year, better chance of a natty vs more long term stability as we weather the NOA storm.

Just because Bill always finds a way, I’m always in win now mode.

Kcmatt7 said:

I’m just not big on Jalen.

Slow footed below the rim player.

Good news though, his circle realizes he is a 4 man so we aren't dealing with bad whispers in his ear.

I think he shines as an upperclassman stretch 4.

@BShark I followed his sister the track star, they are an amazing family of stud girls, and Sam.

Hilarious, just today I saw the ultimate jinx article on ESPN. Kentucky will probably stay undefeated for a long while with their easy schedule the next month and a half!

Here's the link! https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28052900/get-used-kentucky-no-1 ↗

When reading this - reads as insane as it sounds. The question I ask here REALLY isn't a question at all -- not even close , BUT I'll post it anyways

Here it is : - -Soooo which is worse ? - -KU losing to Duke the # 4 ranked team in our 1st game turning the ball over 28 times on a Neutral floor - - Duke the soon to be the # 1 team - - OR :

Kentucky ranked # 1 playing an unranked Evansville at Rupp where they had a 52 game winning streak against unranked opponents - -Evansville pretty much lead from wire to wire.

Not even a close decision - - Kentucky sucked tonight for sure - -far worse loss -- YES -- Or NO

Iowa St dominates the 2nd half to beat Northern Illinois. They were losing at half. 3-25 from deep.

TCU with an easy win at home. Desmond Bane is going to put up big numbers all season, may lead the Big-12 in scoring. 25, 7, 5 line

Texas goes to 3-0

Oklahoma beats Oregon St who had beat Iowa St. Looks like Kristan Doolittle is going to have a big year. Toughed it out at OU after some issues and injuries. Austin Reeves seems to be thriving with Lon after leaving Marsha

I think Sam is with a team that is a better fit for him. Also, maybe coach, too. I'm not slamming anything about our team and coach, but just making point that every player is unique and will perform better in a situation that better suits him.

We never know how players are going to work out until they are here. Look at how many players transfer these days. Maybe that partially relates to players looking for a better fit.

I'm pumped to see Sam do what he did and he did it against a bunch of high ranked players in Lexington. The word on him while he was in Lawrence was that he was a better player than we experienced on the court.

Sam is an athlete

Nova playing at Ohio St right now. Let's hope Nova wins tonight because we will be losing at Nova later this season.

Road games are hard.

@KirkIsMyHinrich no we won’t!

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich no we won’t!

Jay Wright owns Bill plain and simple.

@BShark not this year! Shame on you!

Mario says what’s up coach?!?

@dylans love it

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich no we won’t!

Jay Wright owns Bill plain and simple.

he didn't own us last year in the Phog did he ?

Ohio State just drilling Villanova - -just ass stomping them 72-49 - -2 minutes to Go - -SAY IT ISN'T SO JAY - - SAY IT ISN'T SO

K-state really impressive tonight, losing to Monmouth at the half 29-20.

Heard their announcers say - K-State is like 1-30 from three point range in the 1st half these last 2 games - -AGAIN ONE -- for THIRTY - - sure sounds like they really suck still early season though.

jayballer73 said:

K-state really impressive tonight, losing to Monmouth at the half 29-20.

Heard their announcers say - K-State is like 1-30 from three point range in the 1st half these last 2 games - -AGAIN ONE -- for THIRTY - - sure sounds like they really suck still early season though.

How is this possible with such an elite program?

rockchalkwyo said:

jayballer73 said:

K-state really impressive tonight, losing to Monmouth at the half 29-20.

Heard their announcers say - K-State is like 1-30 from three point range in the 1st half these last 2 games - -AGAIN ONE -- for THIRTY - - sure sounds like they really suck still early season though.

How is this possible with such an elite program?

well they are shooting 29 % tonight - - -0=10 from the 3 - and 14 turnovers - - AT HOME -- also I was wrong - -they said that over three games now that they are 1-32 from the 3 - - -holy crap even I could do better then that - - --ONE --- FOR - -THIRTY TWO

@jayballer73 me and pat Mahomes were at AFH for that game🥰

Mahomes and I

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@jayballer73 me and pat Mahomes were at AFH for that game🥰

AWESOME

I think this is the Monmouth team from Illinois.

KState woke up.

KSUCK as per most seasons won’t beat anyone in a run and gun tempo. They need to win a defensive struggle. With the depth we have this season I wish Bill would let the boys push the ball. I miss that about Roy’s teams, get the rebound and go!!

BShark said:

KState woke up.

ya squeaky got in their butts

Anybody watching oks?

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Anybody watching oks?

They are turning it around thankfully. Don't like seeing the league take terrible Ls unless it's KSU.

I can see why Bryce didn't pick them

@kjayhawks

I always dream of us playing somewhere between Self ball and Roy ball.

Yeah, Roy likes to run and that will bring a lot of points, but it cost us a bunch of points, too. Our guys would get so used to running they wouldn't even secure the boards or think to defend all the way through the possession. Those were some sloppy years. And I'm glad they are over.

And with Bill, we focus so much on stopping scoring and securing rebounds we never send our guys out on a run out. We've got some bigs that can outlet real quick now and it would be crazy if we don't take advantage of it! Just make sure they are coached to not throw TOs!

So Towson & Florida tied at the Half at Florida , which leads me to ask this Question. - -From what we have seen this year IS there going to be that 1 - - 2 teams that are just head an shoulders above the rest ? - -So far that has not showed out.

Is this going to be one of those whacky wide open years -- a crap shoot any given night ? - -Might end up leading to one wild crazy March -- long time to go we shall see. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I don't see a dominant team or two. There are some who should be better than most teams they play, but they will lose several because of various factors: many really good players on a large number of teams, lack of focus on favored team's part, bad free throw shooting, who gets more 50/50 balls, who is more aggressive, etc.

COHawk said:

I don't see a dominant team or two. There are some who should be better than most teams they play, but they will lose several because of various factors: many really good players on a large number of teams, lack of focus on favored team's part, bad free throw shooting, who gets more 50/50 balls, who is more aggressive, etc.

I agree with you. - - Florida won by 6 - -was favored by 17 - -thing is 4 out of that 6 point win came in the last 20 seconds.

Towson really got the home Cooked call late , late in the game - -Scored tied 60-60 with like 1:29 to go - - Towson ball - - Towson player drives to the hole -- underneath Official blows his whistle raises his arm closed fist for Foul and THEN LOOKS out to the outer official to make the call - WTH -- the underneath official right there blows the whistle - -AND THEN has the out official make the call - - - Charge - - just turned the cooker up to high - -Christmas came early

@drgnslayr a good balance of both would be fine with me. I feel like we have pushed the ball less and less each year.

Recap of action

Texas Tech blew out their 3rd cupcake in 3 games. Jahmi'us Ramsey is really good, he was expected to be. 25 points in 22 minutes. Bucket getter.

Oklahoma St went to 3-0 dominating the 2nd half against Charleston. Dziagwa had 7 3's

Kansas St was down 9 to Monmouth at half. Blew them out in the 2nd half. A team that is feeling the impact of losing so many seniors.

Tonight's action:

West Virginia goes on the road to face Pitt.

Baylor, Texas & KU all should win easily.

Is Pitt any good post Dixon?

dylans said:

Is Pitt any good post Dixon?

Not right now but Capel is trying to turn it around. Cupboard was bare when he got there and almost the entire team transferred out. Capel was a big time bag man at Duke.

Duke struggling with Georgia State.

@BShark Duke isn't good. We delayed them being exposed, but it was bound to happen.

Duke won by 11.

WVU picked up a nice win against Pitt

Woodrow said:

WVU picked up a nice win against Pitt

Excellent

Sampson is playing Grimes at the wing. Howling.

Haws for BYU hits the winning shot with like ONE second left over Grimes

Woodrow said:

WVU picked up a nice win against Pitt

I think they will be tough this year....as we all know...Huggins is good.

@BShark Not running the show? Shocking...

approxinfinity said:

@BShark Duke isn't good. We delayed them being exposed, but it was bound to happen.

That was our worst game of the year so far and it took 28 Turnovers at that and STILL only lost by two. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

ajvan said:

@BShark Not running the show? Shocking...

Still looked slow, against BYU...

BShark said:

ajvan said:

@BShark Not running the show? Shocking...

Still looked slow, against BYU...

I saw him getting beat several times off the dribble drive to the hole. - -He got beat on the game winning J too. - -Just not good on the defensive end

@BShark His handlers must be losing their minds about now since the goal was to rehabilitate his PG image.

He hasn't played pt at all since he's been there.

Brutal loss for Danny: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401168193 ↗

Okie Lite won a battle against Yale: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401169617 ↗

Wissox boys won their rivalry game and somehow Markus Howard is still in school: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401166074 ↗

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401169836 ↗

Is Kentucky...just bad? Was @Kcmatt7 just off by one year on their suckage?

@BShark - they did beat Michigan State...

@Gorilla72 Might say more about MSU at this point. Both teams dealing with injuries though. UK I think had 7 scholarship players tonight.

@BShark - true enough. I haven’t seen anyone separate themselves this year. Yet.

It was a one point game with 3 minutes to go, Cal got his monies worth outta those depends lol.

KSU struggling with Arkansas Pine-Bluff...

Grimes had a huge night. 32,9&5

Woodrow said:

Grimes had a huge night. 32,9&5

How bad is Rice?? Lol at little bro. Might be the worst team in the league

KSU won because they were +10 at the line and +15 from 3. Got whipped otherwise.

FarmerJayhawk said:

KSU won because they were +10 at the line and +15 from 3. Got whipped otherwise.

Arky PB is worse than Monmouth which is pretty remarkable. KSU might be in for a long year.

@BShark

We can only hope

🐦 View Tweet

Oh no Roy...

@BShark he's got the best pt!

Texas, a 6.5 pt favorite lost to Georgetown tonight at MSG by 16 points (82-66). They’ll probably play Duke, which is leading California by 19 at the half....

Baylor on Espnu now playing Coast Carolina - -& Texas playing Cal on Espn 2

Watching the Duke/Georgetown game right now , and you know what ? I think maybe I'm liking Tristian more then Stanley OR Hurt.

Other then the game against us , these two guys haven't done nothing this year - - -Hurt hasn't scored tonight at the Half , Stanley has one point. I watched them last night also - -not impressive by far.

I like Tristian's smoothness alot - actually seems mature and just fluid really smooth. True he isn't putting up big numbers but he does a lot of things. Commentators have talked about just how long he is, I realize Stanley and Hurt are more highly rated but sometimes those things don't turn out - -Tristian just looks better to me at this point maybe by the end of the year but right now - -I take Tristian for sure thank you lol.

Refs are taking over for Duke.

BShark said:

Refs are taking over for Duke.

Boy , you can say that again

28 fouls with still 2 minutes to go - - - 24 turnovers and some good ol Duke cooking equals - - - G Town loss

I'll take Tristan over Hurt and Stanley any day of the week. He will ball at KU and in the NBA (Stanley will too, eventually), but what will Hurt do? Feeling real good about our class.

Big game going on between Villanova and Baylor all tied up. - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Baylor looks pretty Salty. - -4 guards that can flat shoot the 3. - -Anybody remember Jarrod Butler ? - Ya the one that lit us up for 31 in the Phog, you just can't leave that guy open 3.

They have Butler , Williams , Teague , & Bandoo . - they gonna be a challenge, - Just won the Myrtle Beach tourney over Villanova - 87-78 - -will be interesting - -really quick guards. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Scott Drew still coaches them but yes they have a talented team

Half the Big-12 remains unbeaten at this point. Not a surprise since most of the league hasn't played anyone besides Baylor.

KU through 4 games- Opponent's Record 18-8

Rest of the league

K-St- 8-18

OU- 13-17

Tech- 12-16

OSU- 16-15

Baylor- 24-18

WVU- 13-10

Texas- 14-15

TCU- 13-12

ISU- 12-12

@BeddieKU23 One might argue that at least that many B12 teams should be unbeaten at this juncture, given the quality of the schedules played.

B12 teams have only 5 non-conference losses thus far, which is fewer than any other conference. ACC teams have 8 non-conference losses (spread over 16 teams, of course). While B12 teams have thus far avoided any really bad losses, until Baylor's win against Villanova, there haven't been any really quality wins for the conference as a whole. Usually, at least the Jayhawks have 1 or 2 at this point.

The holiday tournaments should give us a better idea of the strength of the relative strength of the B12 and other conferences. Based on what we've seen thus far, it may well be like recent seasons - solid from top to bottom, with no bad teams, but not nearly as strong as other conferences at the upper echelon (KU expected, of course).....

BeddieKU23 said:

Half the Big-12 remains unbeaten at this point. Not a surprise since most of the league hasn't played anyone besides Baylor.

KU through 4 games- Opponent's Record 18-8

Rest of the league

K-St- 8-18

OU- 13-17

Tech- 12-16

OSU- 16-15

Baylor- 24-18

WVU- 13-10

Texas- 14-15

TCU- 13-12

ISU- 12-12

Mercy that's really bad , and to think even with such a sorry schedule against nobodies a lot of these teams have struggles with those nobodies - - mainly K-State for sure. - - Again Balor is pretty salty - -super quick guards. We all know what Jarrod Butler can do, Teague looks pretty solid

@DCHawker

My General Impression from watching the Big-12 so far is that there are 2/3 teams at the top, a middle of 4-5 teams and two teams clearly at the bottom. It will be interesting to see if that continues on through the season.

What I've seen so far, the Big-12 as a whole is down compared to some recent years. All the usual factors, graduations, transfers, lack of top end talent coming in and returning have caught up to some teams.

KU, Baylor & an untested Texas Tech look like the cream of the conference so far.

K-St has struggled mightily against some really suspect teams and TCU is a one man team right now. It's hard to see either of those teams making an impact without significant improvement.

Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma St & Iowa St look like competitive teams. I have no idea what West Virginia is yet but it looks like their defense is far away from what they used to be. Huggy has a rep for overachieving but overall its a team lacking significant talent in the backcourt. OU could overachieve this season if they continue to have 3 guys hover around the Top 10 in scoring in the conference.

Well K-State really struggled today - -they looked bad. - half way decent on the defensive end BUT man they suck on the offense. - -3/13 from the line - 59 points for the game losing to a Pitt team not very good either.

You get beat by a team that turns the ball over 21 times and shoots 1-16 from the 3 - -you are in trouble. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73

Really they have played like this in every game but just wasnt facing power 5 teams.

BeddieKU23 said:

@jayballer73

Really they have played like this in every game but just wasnt facing power 5 teams.

Ya they are really gonna struggle I think

OU getting drilled by Stanford, another bad loss for the league

@Woodrow KU Baylor maybe Tech and the little seven.

https://247sports.com/Player/Obi-Toppin-46040606/high-school-192197/ ↗

This kid is absolutely tearing it up. Totally unranked. You really just never know.

@BShark

Redshirted too. Potential top 5 pick the way he is playing. I knew he was good but this is crazy

@jayballer73

It seems to me that Self is being much more patient with Braun than just about any player I remember. I remember Russel Rob getting more than a few quick yanks in his first season. Some cannot deal w/that type of pressure.

MEANWHILE KSUCK IS DOWN 10 TO BRADLEY WHAT A DAY

Bradley up 8 with 1:54 to go. I will be watching the rest of this one all the way.

BShark said:

Bradley up 8 with 1:54 to go. I will be watching the rest of this one all the way.

K-State sucks

BRUCE CANT BELIEVE THAT FOUL CALL

BShark said:

BRUCE CANT BELIEVE THAT FOUL CALL

West Virginia plays Wichita State later tonight

Bradley up 10 with 1:28 to go

KSU has quit

TECHNICAL FOUL ON LIBERACE

The last time a B12 team was as bad as this KSU team was on offense was the 0-18 TCU team just saying.

@BShark So you're saying we're going to lose to them and Bill is going to make comments about Topeka YMCA again?

Losing by 13 to Bradley. That's impressive.

Another Tech on K-State by what's his name lol

Bruce Whiner

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

Losing by 13 to Bradley. That's impressive.

It's almost unreal how bad this KSU team is. Usually they are average... 4-2 due to Bruce the creampuff god.

they just flat suck this year

Iowa lost to a purple mid-major. We need to avoid purple mid-major teams. Unfortunately we have to play KSU twice.

Iowa st was downed by Michigan. Looks like they are down too

Okie State up by 12 on Cuse at half.

who is it anyways that Wichita State has beaten to have a 6-0 record? - -WV is 5-0 ? - - hmmmmm

@jayballer73 All of their games have been at home until this tourney. Omaha, Oral Roberts, Gardner-Webb, U T Martin, Tex. Southern. So nobody really.

@Big-Clyde52

Cuse is really bad but would be a good win for them

Big Clyde52 said:

@jayballer73 All of their games have been at home until this tourney. Omaha, Oral Roberts, Gardner-Webb, U T Martin, Tex. Southern. So nobody really.

ya , I see that I mean nobody's

Wvu falling apart

As I say it they hit a big 3 to get the lead back to 9

Huggy up by 9 with 3:25 to go.

Wichita can't shoot

Put a fork in Marsha. They are done. Tshiebwe is an animal.

@Big-Clyde52 Wichita seems bad

Chaminade is giving Georgia a game. UGA up 5 under 2 minutes left.

3 pt game under a minute left!!!

@BShark I see why I have not been watching. Walton is blabbering.

Chaminade has a chance with the ball down 3. :eyes:

what a shot!!

OMG BILL WALTON. I'm dying.

you are kidding!!!

BOOOOOOOO

What a heart breaker.

Kansas State loses to Bradley by 13 to finish last in the Fort Myers tip off in a 4 team tournament that Pittsburgh ended up winning. Not a good look after surviving some home scares against typewriter repair schools and falling to 4-2 on the year. They pretty much have Sneed and Diarrhea.

Oklahoma State was victorious as underdogs against Syracuse. They improve to 6-0 against a fairly easy schedule but anytime the B12 beats the ACC it makes me smile. OSU is probably a team that battles for an NCAA birth.

West Virginia holds on against Wichita is not a State to improve to 6-0 as well. They have some good pieces like 6’9 Oscar not even gonna try that last name, he finished with 19 points and 18 rebounds. Their schedule isn’t spectacular either but do own a win against Pittsburgh. They will likely be ranked Monday and push us a few times.

Iowa State falls to Michigan in the battle for Atlantis 83-76. Watched some this one and ISU is pretty typical ISU. They live and die by the three, just didn’t hit enough to win today. They has some talented older guys and some younger ones, they just don’t guard or play together at this point. The loss was their second (Oregon State) as they fell to 3-2 on the season. I’m starting to think Prohm isn’t all that great of a coach.

That’s a wrap on today’s big 12 action. Obviously we all know what went down in Hawaii and with Jayhawks. Join in next week when my four year son will be my guest. Many rocks chalks and talks of chicken nuggets will be had 🤣.

@kjayhawks

They pretty much have Sneed and Diarrhea.

I had that a few weeks ago...

I think we're going to be okay. Och and McCormack played great, and I love our D.

@dylans haha that was intentionally missed spelled

dylans said:

@kjayhawks

They pretty much have Sneed and Diarrhea.

I had that a few weeks ago...

Dajuan Gordon is a hooper. I foresee a Pullen type career from him.

That said he is a FR and will take some time.

Oh Roy Boy and North Carolina just getting butt stomped by Michigan . - -60-36 with about 11:00 minutes to go

Juwan Howard is an elite defensive coach.

Texas Tech lost by 11 to Iowa. Finally played someone with a pulse and got knocked down

Iowa St put up 104 on Alabama. Bama is not very good but will be interesting to see what Oates does when he gets his guys.

Haliburton is an exceptional talent almost had a triple double

I watched the whole Tech game. They looked like absolute trash. Can’t shoot at all and have no half court offense.

DePaul @Texas Tech on 12/4. Charlie Moore and Co. Could be a good game!

Stanley with a non contact knee injury tonight for Duke. Could be a really big blow for them

Edit they say it's a hammy

DePaul wins. Charlie Moore with 21 pts. & 12 assists. Good for him.

Mitchell Ballock with 12 for an average Creighton team. Leading scorer.

Depaul game is in Chicago

4-3 Iowa State you hate to see it.

Oklahoma St is crushing a terrible Ole Miss team. They look like the 2nd best team in the Big-12

Ohio St looks like a top 3 team. Just a good roster up and down

Michigan pummeled Gonzaga today. Wow

@BeddieKU23 After they beat the crap out of UNC yesterday. Juwan Howard has himself a good team as well.

Gorilla72 said:

DePaul wins. Charlie Moore with 21 pts. & 12 assists. Good for him.

Mitchell Ballock with 12 for an average Creighton team. Leading scorer.

Depaul - -8-0 - -watched that game

Wow.... Texas Tech down 18 to Creighton with a little over 1 minute left 8n the 1st. Creighton scorching the nets at 61.5% from 3....

Tech lost in OT by 7.

Oklahoma St won by 41 over Ole Miss only giving up 37 in their press zone.

Iowa St lost by 8 to a ranked Seton Hall.

Florida St held on to beat Tennessee, the last 4 minutes took almost 30 to complete

Michigan is the best team in the country. Loaded with JR/SR talent.

BeddieKU23 said:

Oklahoma St is crushing a terrible Ole Miss team. They look like the 2nd best team in the Big-12

As we have seen with Texas Tech, it's hard to trust terrible schedules.

@BShark Next game at Louisville. Guess we'll see.

@KirkIsMyHinrich I'd bet they win that game. Killed UNC and desecrated Gonzaga's corpse.

Carolina and Gonzaga are soft. Louisville is not. I've got the red team in that one.

@BeddieKU23 I think Tech is bigtime overrated this year.

@KirkIsMyHinrich I'll take Michigan in that matchup.

BeddieKU23 said:

Oklahoma St won by 41 over Ole Miss only giving up 37 in their press zone.

Rough weekend for Ole Miss. Lose like that on the basketball court after the dog pee celebration costs them a football game is a double Zenger.

LOL....that was quite a Zenger!

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

Carolina and Gonzaga are soft. Louisville is not. I've got the red team in that one.

I agree with you - -that game is in Louisville - - no neutral court - - -I think Louisville wins anywhere from 5-7 points

Old friend UNC Greensboro just beat Georgetown.

Marco said:

@BeddieKU23 I think Tech is bigtime overrated this year.

I agree they were over ranked but I think it's a young team that is going to take some time to come together. Wouldn't count Beard out yet but they are not as good as last season

@BShark

OSU has depth now and has 5 guys that played together last season. Anei and Likelele look improved. That junk defense looks difficult to score over

Same ol Shaka Smart. 2 point Victory over Mcneese St (2-6) at home

K-State really sad , I mean really , really sad. Played Florida Atlantic tonight. - -25 point favorite on your home floor. - -Can't cover the spread to Florida Atlantic - -win by 18, This is a Florida Atlantic team that is picked to finish 9th in the MEAC -- 9th ! ! ! !. - -Florida Atlantic is ranked 341 st in the Ken Pom - out of 353 teams - - -341st for cryin out loud. - -- K-State is REALLY - - -REALLY - -bAD. - -

They play Marquette this weekend - - with Howard, - -this ought to be fun lol -yelp - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

RIP Georgetown. Starting PG and rotation forward kicked off the team

https://sports.yahoo.com/georgetown-sophs-akinjo-leblanc-off-men-basketball-team-014225891--ncaab.html ↗

Really good night and week if you love college hoops. Michigan / Louisville, Duke/ Sparty, Iowa / Cuse, and Florida St. / Indiana tonight.

The Michigan/Loui game should be great. No reason to watch Duke beat Michigan St again. FSU is a good deep team and should overwhelm Archie's bunch

@BShark There was this game back in 06, March 17th to be exact, that Bradley beat KU in the 1st round of the NCAA.

...but KState still SUCKS.

Woodrow said:

Really good night and week if you love college hoops. Michigan / Louisville, Duke/ Sparty, Iowa / Cuse, and Florida St. / Indiana tonight.

Dam a basketball junkies 7th heaven - know what I'm doing tonight lol

BeddieKU23 said:

The Michigan/Loui game should be great. No reason to watch Duke beat Michigan St again. FSU is a good deep team and should overwhelm Archie's bunch

where is this being played? - -Ol Duke missing a big piece of their team Stanley being out plays a big part of their offense right now - - more then Hurt, better consistency so far

@jayballer73 It is at Michigan St.

It might be that Duke is better than Michigan St and Michigan is better than Louisville, but road games are hard in college basketball. I've got both of the home teams tonight.

@Woodrow coach k still under the weather? Maybe that’s determined after the game!🤣

Oh, Crim - what a zinger! LOL!!!

Woodrow said:

@jayballer73 It is at Michigan St.

Dam I dunno - I just think with Stanley out old Izzo just might take Duke this time. - -I mean come on - -Duke has not really impressed me - - -have they you or anyone else.?

I mean we obviously play by far our worst game of the year - -the 1st game of the year, -true it was their 1st game of their year too BUT it took us to turner the ball over TWENTY EIGHT TIMES and still only lose by two, hell if we turn it over even eight lesst times chances are - - - we win - turn the ball over that many times and still only lose by two,

Thing is We believe it or not - -we are improving -- Duke I'm not seeing it - -if any thing they are right where they were when they played us. - -Having said that to say this - -I just think Big game I think Tom Izzo is good enough Coach on his home floor big time environment -Duke missing at the present time anyways they missing Stanley -- might be enough for Michigan State to just win this thing. - - I think Cassius Stanley might have a huge game - -I am NOT impressed with Duke at this point, there really is not ONE player on that team that impresses me that much - - intimidates - -Score ? - maybe like somewhere possibly 76-71 - -possibly - -Could be wrong - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

It might be that Duke is better than Michigan St and Michigan is better than Louisville, but road games are hard in college basketball. I've got both of the home teams tonight.

ME TOO BUDDY

Could someone PLEASE explain to me why these sorry ass's K-state is receiving top 25 votes in the Coach's Poll? - - Weber is not voting for them - -he can't. - So who in the hell what Coach is giving them votes - - for this sorry team - -must be doing mushrooms lol

@bcjayhawk zenger

Is 5 points in 12 minutes good?

interested to see how this 2nd half plays out. - - -15 % FG shooting in the 1st half - - 1 - - assist and 6 turnovers and only down 10 on the road - - never no. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Michigan looked like a team that wasn’t ranked last week. Must have used all there 3 point shots Last week in the Bahamas.

Woodrow said:

Michigan looked like a team that wasn’t ranked last week. Must have used all there 3 point shots Last week in the Bahamas.

Hell, their 2 point shots as well. Just 12-39 from 2...wow. Their defense continues to be elite though.

I wonder if Michigan State after getting killed by Duke finally falls in the Kenpom/Torvik etc rankings.

Missouri lost to Charleston Southern. WUT.

@BShark big crowd too!

@BShark MSU cant shoot!

Recap of last night:

Duke crushed Michigan St again. I can't remember how many times in a row Duke has beaten sparty now.

Louisville overwhelmed Michigan in a Virginia slow mo type game

FSU got crushed by Indiana. Was surprised by that one.

Baylor won by 32.

Texas won by 10 over UAB at home. They wouldn't be 7-1 if they played real teams.

TCU beat Illinois St by 12

Texas Tech goes to Depaul tonight. Oklahoma St gets a depleted Georgetown team coming to town.

Nationally Virginia goes on the road to face Purdue. Virginia will win.

The biggest game of the night figures to be Ohio ST going to North Carolina. Ohio ST has looked like a Top 3 team and I'm interested to see how they do on the road.

BShark said:

Woodrow said:

Michigan looked like a team that wasn’t ranked last week. Must have used all there 3 point shots Last week in the Bahamas.

Hell, their 2 point shots as well. Just 12-39 from 2...wow. Their defense continues to be elite though.

I wonder if Michigan State after getting killed by Duke finally falls in the Kenpom/Torvik etc rankings.

Sparty still #3 in Kenpom and #6 in Torvik. Kind of hard for me to take Kenpom seriously when his rankings have Sparty there. They are not even a top 20 team right now.

@Woodrow Yeah I get the whole thing about it taking awhile for preseason ranking impact to wear off but this is ridiculous.

Apparently Langford will not return this season so that hurts them a lot. Still though, it's amazing how Izzo controls the narrative. They will end up a lower seed and suddenly play more to their talent level in March and everyone will gush over Izzo when the reality is he underachieves in the regular season...

@BShark

Langford definitely hurts them.

I know preseason expectations didn't change when Langford went down but they should have. I think the media missed how important he would be to their offense. Without him its just Winston & Tillman. Winston's numbers are slumping because his supporting cast isn't as good. Henry is solid but after that its growing pains. I guess the losses of McQuaid and Goins and their 129 3's from last season is also playing a huge factor.

BeddieKU23 said:

@BShark

Langford definitely hurts them.

I know preseason expectations didn't change when Langford went down but they should have. I think the media missed how important he would be to their offense. Without him its just Winston & Tillman. Winston's numbers are slumping because his supporting cast isn't as good. Henry is solid but after that its growing pains. I guess the losses of McQuaid and Goins and their 129 3's from last season is also playing a huge factor.

one of the problems from last night, although don't think it would of changed things but Michigan State without Tillman for most of the 1st half last night sure didn't help[

Without Tillman they had no answer - -nobody coming close to stop Carey -with him being in foul trouble and having to sit - - it was over

ok, so I have a question.-It may be a silly question but that's me lol. - - -You know we talk about how many years in a row we have sold out the phog and our environment - - - -

The question is as big of demand that we have for tickets - -people ( KU Fans ) wanting to watch our Jayhawks be a part of the family how/why is there EVER ANY fans from the other teams inside the Phog ? - -I'm serious - I know stupid question- -but with the demand we have - -how is there ever any tickets for these people ?

Is the University required obligated to hold X amount of tickets for opposing teams ? - brought my curiousity up when I heard some CU fans talking about the last time they were here they had a good contingent in the Phog - -my question is How ? - -Should be nothing but Crimson and Blue . - - Help? - -thanks -- I know- -I know still anyone clear this up for me ? - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 Same way KU fans who are not season ticket holders get tickets: through ticket resellers, or by getting tickets privately.

Right now at this Point Purdue giving Virginia some of their own medicine Purdue up 21-9 - -with 7:50 to go in the 1st half. - -Hell that 21 points is about an entire game against Virginia.

Norte Dame up on Maryland at Maryland early

Virginia getting just pummeled by Purdue

@Woodrow I'll pass on Bennett.

the number 5 team just got their buts handed to them on a plate by a 4-3 Purdue team - - by 29 - -There is Bennet's jaugernaut team.

If you can't score and run into a hot team - -a team like this is screwed, - proof is right there in front of you - -boring team BORING TEAM - -40 fricken points - -equation =1 point a minute - - YIPPEE

I'm watching and pulling for chuck. I did him wrong last year!😢

Oklahoma State loses at home as a double digit favorite to Georgetown. The Big 12 is way down this year. KU should win it going away.

@Woodrow what happened to osu's pt guard, I just saw the end of game.

Nice steal chuck!

Coach beard actually had to give students a Kentucky game ticket to get them to come to a game? Weak!

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@Woodrow what happened to osu's pt guard, I just saw the end of game.

Really hope he is okay.

Woodrow said:

Oklahoma State loses at home as a double digit favorite to Georgetown. The Big 12 is way down this year. KU should win it going away.

Good thing I just couldn't overreact to them killing a rancid Ole Miss team.

BShark said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@Woodrow what happened to osu's pt guard, I just saw the end of game.

Really hope he is okay.

He was just sick and didn't play at all. I have no doubt they win this game with him playing.

Good game here!

Poor chuck! He's a good passer!

5-3 Texas Tech it shocks you to see it.

North Carolina getting killed at Chapel Hill by Ohio State 71-48. - - N Carolina hasn't scored 80 points in a game this year - - - n Carolina hasn't shot 50 % from the filed in a game this year. -Down year in College Basketball.

@BShark so tech is missing a guy?

Holyfield had 28 minutes and 0 points. Not a good day for him.

Bad night for ACC tonight. Two of their best teams getting destroyed by two of the top B10 teams, definitely a bad look for the league tonight.

BShark said:

Woodrow said:

Michigan looked like a team that wasn’t ranked last week. Must have used all there 3 point shots Last week in the Bahamas.

Hell, their 2 point shots as well. Just 12-39 from 2...wow. Their defense continues to be elite though.

I wonder if Michigan State after getting killed by Duke finally falls in the Kenpom/Torvik etc rankings.

What is wrong with Michigan State? I kind of thought to begin the season that they were a little overrated, but have since adjusted to way overrated.

BeddieKU23 said:

Recap of last night:

Duke crushed Michigan St again. I can't remember how many times in a row Duke has beaten sparty now.

Louisville overwhelmed Michigan in a Virginia slow mo type game

FSU got crushed by Indiana. Was surprised by that one.

Baylor won by 32.

Texas won by 10 over UAB at home. They wouldn't be 7-1 if they played real teams.

TCU beat Illinois St by 12

Some takeaways - MSU is not a national championship contender.

• Louisville is solid, but very beatable.

• Michigan is not a Top 10 ten.

• Archie can coach.

• Baylor is for real.

• Texas is nowhere near being a Top 25 (don't even think about it AP!) team

• TCU is still TCU.

@BShark

So Likele didn't play?? They really don't have a backup PG. Still, not a good loss there at home. I know the Ole Miss game was a joke but OSU did look improved and their PG is a big reason why.

DePaul now 9-0, who woulda thunk

Marco said:

Some takeaways - MSU is not a national championship contender.

• Louisville is solid, but very beatable.

• Michigan is not a Top 10 ten.

• Archie can coach.

• Baylor is for real.

• Texas is nowhere near being a Top 25 (don't even think about it AP!) team

• TCU is still TCU.

Sparty without Langford is a first weekend/S16 ceiling team.

Michigan is still an elite defensive team. Their ceiling is how they played in the Bahamas. They are a fringe Top 10 team imo, there just isn't a lot of good teams.

Louisville deserves to be #1 right now, they have a star player and solid depth/experience up and down and they defend. I think Ohio St has more talent top to bottom but the rankings mean nothing this early anyway. Them 2 and KU look like the 3 best teams out there from the games I've watched of all.

FSU laid an egg, not sure Indiana is really that good but Assembly Hall is still a tough place to play.

Baylor is definitely a Top 15 type squad. Drew though always finds a way to mess it up. Should we expect anything else?

jayballer73 said:

North Carolina getting killed at Chapel Hill by Ohio State 71-48. - - N Carolina hasn't scored 80 points in a game this year - - - n Carolina hasn't shot 50 % from the filed in a game this year. -Down year in College Basketball.

Ohio St is a legit team. That team is fun to watch.

I forgot Virginia was missing a key player in Braxton Key who's out with an injury and I should have reevaluated my thoughts for that one. I also didn't think Purdue was any good so I missed the boat on that game. Virginia can't score and really only have 1 player who can get his own offense in Diakite who was what the 5th option last season..

@jayballer73 I have gone to late December games when the semester is over. They release more GA seats and you can sit in the student sections. May not be as viable of an option this year as we play on the road in late December.

@Marco I think Winston losing his brother in the manner that it occurred has affected his play. Understandable. But, yes, they are not the same without Langford.

@BeddieKU23 waters did a good job as back up. They always scare me. They are so tough!

BeddieKU23 said:

Texas Tech goes to Depaul tonight. Oklahoma St gets a depleted Georgetown team coming to town.

Nationally Virginia goes on the road to face Purdue. Virginia will win.

The biggest game of the night figures to be Ohio ST going to North Carolina. Ohio ST has looked like a Top 3 team and I'm interested to see how they do on the road.

One of the weirdest days in CBB I've seen in awhile.

Marco said:

BShark said:

Woodrow said:

Michigan looked like a team that wasn’t ranked last week. Must have used all there 3 point shots Last week in the Bahamas.

Hell, their 2 point shots as well. Just 12-39 from 2...wow. Their defense continues to be elite though.

I wonder if Michigan State after getting killed by Duke finally falls in the Kenpom/Torvik etc rankings.

What is wrong with Michigan State? I kind of thought to begin the season that they were a little overrated, but have since adjusted to way overrated.

not having Langford has really hurt them BUT - -I still think that yes , they were overrated. - -Good team but far from a top tier team - - tope 20 team? - -yes top 20 but not top 10. - More like 15th -to 21st type team - -at this point anyways.

North Carolina is another team in trouble - like the announcers said last night they don't have anybody other then Anthony that can score. - If Anthony is out who is going to score for them - -NOBODY. - -they haven't shot 50 % in a game this year -they haven't scored 80 points like they normally have not once like they did in previous years - - they are not in a good position

@jayballer73 Roy isn’t exactly a defensive mastermind. If UNC can’t score they’re in trouble.

dylans said:

@jayballer73 Roy isn’t exactly a defensive mastermind. If UNC can’t score they’re in trouble.

BIG TIME TROUBLE - - lol

Baylor with a BIG test tomorrow , Baylor is good, but how good? - get a better feel tomorrow. - - Baylor plays Arizona tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. @ Baylor on ESPNU - - should be a pretty decent test for them, wouldn't surprise me if Stumpy doesn't win.

West Virginia , dam didn't realize they are ( 7-0 )- - they play in the Big East Challenge tomorrow - playing St Johns @ St Johns - -11:00 0n FS-1

Wichita State - -yippee - plays OSU Sunday @ OSU - -if Likely plays should be a fairly easy win for OSU - - they play @ 11:00 on ESPNU

OL Smarty plays Texas A & M - -@ A & M - 2:00 on ABC - -have no idea who wins this -- nor do I give a rats ass lol

Another decent game this weekend , Seton Hall plays Iowa State @ Ames 8:00 P.M on ESPN 2 - - think Iowa State has a legit shot , mainly cause it's at Ames , if this was at Seton Hall I'd be rolling with Seton Hall - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Yikes Oklahoma won by 2 points on the road over North Texas (3-6).

Parity or parody?

@BeddieKU23 is osu's pt guard really their highest scorer?

BeddieKU23 said:

Yikes Oklahoma won by 2 points on the road over North Texas (3-6).

mercy ! ! !

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BeddieKU23 is osu's pt guard really their highest scorer?

Likekele, yes getting to the FT line a lot and just improved a bunch from last season. On NBA radar too

@BeddieKU23 I figured waters was the guy!

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BeddieKU23 I figured waters was the guy!

Waters is at 14.0 and Likekele at 13.7. Waters probably settles as their top guy as the season goes but they have 5 guys in double figures right now

I just can't see Bryce fitting in there. He seems more like a young och, Jalen Wilson type kid.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I just can't see Bryce fitting in there. He seems more like a young och, Jalen Wilson type kid.

Are you speaking of Bryce Thompson fitting in theoretically at OSU?

I think the allure to that situation was playing with Cade and Boynton being a good coach/type of coach kids tend to like. They also have a bunch of players that are Sr's so he would have probably walked into a starting spot there too.

UNC people thought he'd be a big culture/character fit there but after seeing all the post commitment stuff on Bryce seems he was always going to be a hawk as long as Self was still there.

I think he's a bit advanced to Ochai & Wilson. Kid has worked extremely hard to raise his profile from Top 100 kid to 5 star prospect. He also from a depth chart perspective comes into a situation he can handle the ball a lot with Garrett and fill in for the expected departure of Dotson. Fills a major shooting/play making and facilitating role that Devon is likely leaving on the table. I don't see OAD in him due to him not being an elite athlete but he should be able to come in and help this team in a big way.

I meant hanging out with. I always thought Osu was a rough group? Maybe just me, and maybe cause of the group from last yr, or the yr before he had to let go.

Multi-year 5* dream recruit. Thank goodness for that connection because the rest of the class is reaaaal lean.

BShark said:

Multi-year 5* dream recruit. Thank goodness for that connection because the rest of the class is reaaaal lean.

What? Lean? We've got Tyon Grant-Foster. I hear he's a possible all-America, a possible pro, I mean, you know ... what else could a team need?

@HighEliteMajor Tyon is our second best recruit by a large margin.

HighEliteMajor said:

BShark said:

Multi-year 5* dream recruit. Thank goodness for that connection because the rest of the class is reaaaal lean.

What? Lean? We've got Tyon Grant-Foster. I hear he's a possible all-America, a possible pro, I mean, you know ... what else could a team need?

Now the number 1 juco recruit in the nation. Has had some games recently that weren't as good but hes still averaging almost 19 a game

Big 12 is going to be what it normally is. Kansas runs away with the league, a bunch of mid seed level teams and probably one, maybe two bad teams (both wear purple). Big 12 will get their usual 6-7 teams in the NCAA tournament and most will be gone before the first weekend is over. Kansas and Baylor are the two that should make it to the S16 or deeper. I know we laugh at Drew a lot, but he does have multiple E8 appearances at Baylor because his style is effective in that format until they run into an elite team.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I think that is perhaps over-generous or over-optimistic. The B12 is arguably much inferior to recent years. The conference typically has a few high profile non-conference wins at this point - usually KU has a couple, Texas often has one and maybe 1 or 2 others from the rest of the brethren.

This year, not so much. Questionable whether the entire conference has a quality win that will help with seeding - Villanova, Syracuse, Dayton??? Maybe one could argue that no one has a REALLY bad loss, but that is thin gruel. Two conference losses to a mediocre Georgetown team, TTU's 3 game losing streak, and the Bunnies losses would suggest that 6-7 teams this year is a stretch....

Basketball is down in all conferences!

@DCHawker Except it's not a stretch. The B12 is still highly regarded by most computer metrics. 8 of the 10 teams are in the KenPom top 50 right now with TCU at 53. KSU is the only team that KenPom has as being true garbage at this point in the B12.

A typical B12 is KU is the overwhelmingly best team, a bunch of good teams that won't do much in March and maybe one or two really bad teams.

KU should win the B12 by 2-3 games this year with 14 or 15 league wins. Baylor probably comes in second at 12-6 or so. 3rd through 7th are probably going to be in the 10-8 to 8-10 range with TCU and KSU the only two that won't be on the bubble this year.

There's been plenty of years where the B12 lacks in marquee non-conference wins, but still got 7 in because there were no bad losses among the midpack teams. That appears like it's going to be the case again this year.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I agree, the B12 is one of the toughest leagues because it usually has no bottom and is a double round robin. There won’t be a team that doesn’t win at least 5 conference games.

@Texas-Hawk-10 What I was principally (mildly) disagreeing with was your comment about the B12 having a "typical" year. My point, which I stand by, is that this is not really a typical year for the B12 given the absence of any - thus far - marquee non-con wins, combined with a paucity of NBA level talent in the conference (at least as measured by the projected drafts).

But, I also think it will be more difficult for the B12 to get as many teams in the tourney as in recent years, in large part because of the absence of quality wins. I recognize the some of the computer metrics rate the B12 highly - but that is more of a function of the absence of really bad teams, not taking any really bad losses, and overall smarter scheduling - not scheduling as many 200-300 ranked cupcakes.

What the selection committee has always most valued is who did you beat. Probably second to that is wins on the road. As of now, KSU, TTU, TCU and ISU have really beaten no one of note. But, they do each have games coming up against quality opponents. Those might be must win kinds of games. Otherwise, unless any of them have a better than .500 record in conference play, they will have double digit losses, fewer than 20 wins, and no quality non-conference wins to fall back on. It may be that their only opportunities for getting quality wins would be beating KU or BU. And, to the extent that KU dominates conference play, it makes it more likely that there are a bunch of .500 or below conference record teams.

The saving grace may be that this seems to be a down year generally and other Power 5 conferences will be in the same boat....

Baylor is up 17-8 on Arizona right now, but nobody is there to see it.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Basketball is down in all conferences!

Agreed , part of it too I think is that quite possibly from what I see is the change in the 3 pt distance. - I don't think teams are shooting the 3 overall as well - kin of weird to think a couple of feet would make that kind of difference.

I think scoring is down as a whole - -sure some teams still putting in the hole but as a whole I think scoring is just down - - -talent is not as dep I don't think - -the better talent not as deep

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

Baylor is up 17-8 on Arizona right now, but nobody is there to see it.

your right pretty empty. - at 1st I thought man what's wrong with these people. then I remembered championship football game today - -a lot of their fans at that game, - -a lot of others probably staying home watching that game on TV.

Yet the one's that are there , they just suck hardly no noise period;

Observations from the game : - -1st - -Baylor IS a good team - -very good guards - quick , - 2nd - -Today anyways Arizona , not as good look a step slow.

One thing I found out really quick - - -Really like Nico Mannion , wish he could of landed here , kid is solid , looks very mature as a freshman - very sweet passes has a nice shot , good ball handler - ya I like this kid. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@DCHawker A lack of marquee non-conference wins outside of KU has been the Hallmark of the B12 for years. Last year was an atypical B12 season. The B12 has had two peaks of having multiple great teams. The early to mid 2000's when Texas, OU, and OSU all had Final Four teams and the past 2-3 years when OU and Tech also had FF caliber teams. The early B12 years were very lean for quality in the B12 as even KU had a couple of down years and the league had no threat to win a title. From the mid 2000's until the mid 2010's you had the a couple of teams that challenged for B12 title, but weren't national title contenders.

The B12 far more often than not has been the KU show with a bunch of good teams, but not good enough to beat elite teams and usually had one really bad team.

This really is shaping up to be a typical B12 year of KU winnithe league comfortably, maybe one other team getting a 4-5 seed, a bunch of 7-10 seeds that lose the first weekend and maybe a bubble team a couple other team's on lesser post season tournaments, one making a deep run in the NIT, and one team that's relaxing in March after the B12.

@jayballer73 Definitely watching the Big 12 championship game. They are missing this great coaching war between Scott Drew and Sean Miller.

@Texas-Hawk-10 Last year non-conference wins included UNC, Arizona, Michigan State, Oregon, Florida, Dayton, Notre Dame, WSU, USC, Creighton, LSU, Marquette, Tennessee and Villanova. Nothing close to that yet this year, but there are several quality win opportunities over the next week, including BU vs. Arizona now.

Big 12 has Kansas vs Colorado, Kansas at Villanova, Kansas vs Tennessee, West Virginia vs Ohio St, Baylor vs Arizona, Baylor vs Butler, Baylor at Florida, Iowa St vs Seton Hall, Iowa St at Auburn, Texas Tech vs Louisville, Texas Tech vs Kentucky left for quality wins.

They have wins over Dayton, Villanova, and Purdue right now. Seems pretty normal.

@DCHawker And the B12 still only got 6 teams in the NCAA tournament last year. The only real difference between last year and most other years was Texas Tech swapped places with KU as the dominant team in the B12.

Look at what actually happened last year with the B12. One title contender, a bunch of solid teams that weren't good enough to make it past the first weekend. Texas Tech was the only team that made past the second round last year in the B12.

Nico Mannion is good but UA fans have been acting like he's the best point guard in basketball putting up numbers against bad teams. Arizona finally plays a good team and Mannion is 2-12 with 8 points, 4 assists, and 3 turnovers.

I know if there was a down vote button I’d get double digits.

But Scott Drew should be in the short list to replace Bill Self.

He’s a good coach.

@Kcmatt7 You sure would.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

@Kcmatt7 You sure would.

He’s a winner

Under a minute a foul before the ball is inbounded should be ruled intentional

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

Baylor is up 17-8 on Arizona right now, but nobody is there to see it.

Admission was free to students also. They must’ve gone to see the football team lose to Oklahoma again. Baylol.

Baylor is for real. - -I'll be honest I thought Arizona would go in and win. - - Baylor has 3 really good guards

West Virginia kinda got homered in the final 5 seconds of the game. - -THAT was NO foul in any shape or form.

Tie ball game St johns drives to the hoop - -St John player slips driving in falls into Culver - makes contact from slipping and they call Culver for the foul - game should of went into overtime

Kcmatt7 said:

I know if there was a down vote button I’d get double digits.

But Scott Drew should be in the short list to replace Bill Self.

He’s a good coach.

No, Drew should not be on the short list to replace Self. He is a good coach, but he's underachieved on a semi-regular basis as well. I don't think Drew is good enough to coach a blue blood program and perform well enough.

He's been at Baylor as long as Self has been at KU so obviously you don't stay at a school 17 years by being bad at your job, and I'd rate him as the 3rd best coach in the B12 right behind Self and Huggins. Chris Beard may surpass him soon, but Beard needs some sustained excellence at Tech first.

Good win by Iowa St against Seton Hall last night.

@KirkIsMyHinrich

I'm surprised by that one but looks like Iowa St will be Jekyll this season. I'd imagine they will play up against KU too. Haliburton is a stud

@BeddieKU23 of course they will, Hilton magic, curse of fran too!

@BeddieKU23 Eh, Iowa State's lost 3 games: A road game at 7-1 Oregon St (they are probably better than Oregon St but road games are road games); a neutral-site game against Michigan (Top 10 team); a neutral-site game against Seton Hall (ranked team). I think they are a bit better than their record. Tyrese Haliburton might be the best point guard in the country, at least so far.

The Zags/Washington game was interesting. UW has two 1st round picks and likely Lotto Selections in Stewart/McDaniels but the rest of the team underwhelmed. Quade Green gives them a steady force at PG at least.

Gonzaga is a big team. Petrusev, Tillie, Timme & Kispert are all 6'7 and taller. Few keeps reloading.

Oklahoma St was terrible again. Likekele being out is killing them.

Iowa ST got a big win, maybe Seton Hall was a little overrated coming into the season. Powell is great but they don't seem to have enough around him.

Texas beat a terrible Texas A&M squad by 10. Same theme really with that school.

Depaul lost at home to Buffalo. Guess they came back down to earth after a scorching start.

@KirkIsMyHinrich

Makes sense they beat Seton Hall this time around especially in Hilton. I thought Iowa St was a Top 4 team in the Big-12 before the season. Haliburton has improved a ton and will be a tough matchup for Dotson. Interesting that they are shooting the ball horrible as a team from 3 outside of Halliburton

@BeddieKU23 They're saving their 3's for us. Damn nice of them.

@KirkIsMyHinrich

Of course they are but they have some bricklayers compared to other years.

SHU was w/o their top big in the 2nd game.

@BShark

Broke his wrist, apparently.

Sparty without Rocket Watts who's dealing with a stress reaction. Yikes

Notre Dame lost a player for the year and another transferred. Down to 8 scholarship players.

Other teams finally feel our pain

Two big games for the conference tonight. Butler is @ Baylor and Tech and Louisville are playing at MSG. After tonight Baylor will have played 3-top 20 teams so I applaud them for that. I think they win tonight. Tech will have a tough time with Louisville tonight, but I was surprised to see the betting line at only 6. If Tech does lose they will be 5-4 on the year.

Maryland is @ Penn St , UCONN / Indiana are playing as well at MSG, and Northern Iowa is @ Colorado. Pretty good slate of games tonight.

Tech can win if they don't turn the ball over. They were ranked 90th in turnovers per game last season, they are 228th this season. Also ranked 3rd in opponent points per game last season and are 84th so far this season. Small sample size but it would appear they aren't as good defensively as they were last season. At least not yet.

Baylor should win but I have no confidence in them to do anything ever. They've been good this season though.

If Maryland doesn't play better than they did against Illinois at home then they are losing to Penn St.

Hopefully Colorado can keep winning until their game with Dayton. Haven't heard anything about Tyler Bey.

Don't think Tech can win with Ramsey out.

I can't tell if Louisville's offense is terrible or Texas Tech's defense is elite...

@KirkIsMyHinrich

Louisville is just terrible tonight

6-19 from two in the first half for Louisville wow

TT up 5 with 15:43 left. 🤔

Tech up 9 with 12 to go

Louisville straight up sucks tonight

BeddieKU23 said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich

Louisville is just terrible tonight

spot on - - -Tonight. - -yet I think it might be a little of both , - -terrible tonight AND Tech defense pretty solid tonight.

I would think people would have to be really naïve to count Tech out as having some say this season - - their losses have been in OT I know in one at least - -and playing without Ramsey - they gonna be there

Baylor in a tight one against butler, great defensive battle.

Watching

Tech is for real because their coach is for real.

@HighEliteMajor he’s the next big thing in coaching if he stays around.

Baylor trying to give it away late, if I remember right we led the whole game one time down there and gave it away late.

Baylor hangs on 53-52

Good night for the Big XII.
Tech takes down Number One Louisville. Baylor hands Butler its first loss.
And KU...valiantly fights back to beat the spread.

nwhawkfan said:

Good night for the Big XII.
Tech takes down Number One Louisville. Baylor hands Butler its first loss.
And KU...valiantly fights back to beat the spread.

Post of the night!

Baylor with wins against Nova, Arizona and Butler. One loss is against Washington in a Neutral Site game by 3 points.

@Kcmatt7

Yep, they are good. Maybe even better without Kegler. Playing the 3 guards has changed their identity. Butler, Teague & Mitchell matchup with just about anyone in the country. They don't play a ton of zone defense with this shift either.

Hey , Hey , Hey -K-Sucks found someone they can beat up on. - -Alabama State a team with a 1-7 record and ranked 338th in the kem/pom rankings - K-Sucks leads 52-16 at half - -Awesome resume builder for the NCAA Tourney lmao

... er, NIT.

@HighEliteMajor a goal

HighEliteMajor said:

... er, NIT.

very very true - - OR CBI

Surprised Iowa St is getting killed at home right now. I know Iowa is decent but jeez.

@KirkIsMyHinrich You can bet they won’t roll over for KU though.

@KirkIsMyHinrich warms my heart. Fuck ISU.

Might have a TED talk about Prohm soon. It's absolutely ABSURD that Conditt only plays 17 minutes a game.

He is ISU's best big by a large margin and he would be our second best big (behind Doke).

Texas Tech losing to 3-8 Southern Miss at home with 15 minutes left in the 2nd half. Seems like Texas Tech is a good team, but only when they feel like it.

So why is tt player still sitting out? Forgot

@KirkIsMyHinrich Up by 4 with 2 minutes.

@DCHawker quite a few empty seats

@DCHawker 25 of Southern Miss points 28 points in the 2nd half have come in the paint (or FTs)...

Moretti not a pt

Not a smartly coached team!

@Crimsonorblue22 TTU???? In any event, they won, but not impressive at home against a less than mediocre team...

@DCHawker s miss

@DCHawker plus s miss was missing 3 guys

@DCHawker I don't think I've ever seen moretti miss that many 3's! Won't happen against us. Maybe playing pt bothers his shooting

KU loses to Villanova, Texas getting whipped by (6-6) Providence so far, and last year's national title runner-up is down at halftime to mighty Rio Grand Valley.... B12 just not very good this year. Baylor is the only who has really beaten anyone....

K-State really struggling K-State down to St Louis by 2 with 2 :35 left in the game. - - - Big 12 flat out sucks this year

Watching hack Virginia play Ohio St. Same ol WVU. They foul on every play

Close game with 4 to go, OSU up 1

Huggy up 1 with the under 4 timeout. WVU is perfect for KU neither big can shoot the 3 so Dave can sag and play no defense

BeddieKU23 said:

Huggy up 1 with the under 4 timeout. WVU is perfect for KU neither big can shoot the 3 so Dave can sag and play no defense

first to 40 wins

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Huggy up 1 with the under 4 timeout. WVU is perfect for KU neither big can shoot the 3 so Dave can sag and play no defense

first to 40 wins

This has been a hard game to watch. But KU's D will love that they like to play 2 bigs too. Our lazy defense will love watching the film on them

Lol a freshman for WVU just heaved a 20 foot 1 hander and went in. Cant make this garbage up

Down goes #2

well we can say what w want, but we better be ready for WV. - We haven't exactly been a buzz saw sloppy sloppy play - -21 turnovers once again - -just insane free throw shooting , part of that Doke but others poor shooting.

On a positive note. - - I think we are watching Braun get better right before our eyes. - Pretty decent again today, and that's why I think your seeing him getting more minutes little by little - - Coach seeing the same. - - Moss hitting some 3's today was big. - -I think we have just GOT to get rid of these dam 2 big's it just does not work with these guys.

We need to go 4-1 either Dotson , Oachi , Garrett , Braun/Moss - Or Dotson , Oachi , Enrauna , Garett preferably the former.

Coach is just not going to be able to play Doke late in a conference game - - -any game tight goin g in the final minutes - -GOT to play 4-1 late just not even close, Doke just to big of liability

KSU hits a lucky 3 and fouls the hell outta Tulsa on a last second layup to win 69-67 in Methattan.

Saw it

Isu lost to a 2-7 team, some fla team at home. Forgot who it was. Be back. Florida A &M, 2-9. Holy 🐄

Bolton had 29 pts, 8 suited up, no Haliburton

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Bolton had 29 pts, 8 suited up, no Haliburton

That would be why they lost

@BeddieKU23 they just added 9th player to box score, Caleb grille from Maize, all zero's though. Where are all the players? 14 listed last game. Think Haliburton has wrist injury. Fans are wanting Prohm gone

@Crimsonorblue22 Worst loss by a B12 team this year BY FAR. Only win was against Seattle. Lost by 29 each to USC and Tennessee. By 36 to Seton Hall.

@Crimsonorblue22

Just a bad team without Halliburton's playmaking ability for himself and teammates. They really don't have it this season. But I'm sure for the games we play them it will look completely different

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Isu lost to a 2-7 team, some fla team at home. Forgot who it was. Be back. Florida A &M, 2-9. Holy 🐄

Wow , are you serious? - -but yet when we play them - - they will hit everything they throw in from 35 ft. - -and then they're fans will crow - - OH it's the Hilton Magic -- I will call Bullshit lol. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Decided to do some reading after I saw this here. - -Went to they're boards.

Iowa State had a 13 point lead lost it. - - It was Florida International they lost to - - was 1-9 before tonight. - - Florida International had a rating of 324th according to Kenpom. -- ESPN had give them A 1.3 % chance to win.

Fla Int , shot 58 % in the 2bd half - -won 70-68 - - -Florida International had been 0-72 over the past 20 seasons against Major Competition. - -said historic loss.

And they about ready to tar and feather Prom and run him out of town. - -talking about trying to pay off Nebraska to get Hoiberg back. - -they talking about how Iowa State can't shoot -- can't rebound , - -talking about or asking why ANY team would want to guard Peterson on the perimeter. - like someone here said and agree very much so though - - Iowa State has Haliburton play tonight - - Iowa State wins - -I mean 70-68 without him - -has a sprained wrist, Iowa State had 18 turnovers tonight - - just ugly. - - They took a poll if they thought ISU would make the NCAA tourney - - -83 % - -says NO. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

A truly embarrassing loss.

The Florida A&M Rattlers were 1-9 before beating Iowa St. I mean, even Kansas St beat them by 20. Holy hell, ISU.

@DCHawker ISU was favored by 25.5. Florida A&M's first win EVER against a Power 5 conference. 0-109 before this debacle (for ISU).

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

The Florida A&M Rattlers were 1-9 before beating Iowa St. I mean, even Kansas St beat them by 20. Holy hell, ISU.

Within an hour of so the Prohm has to go thread on cyfan had about 5 new pages of posts. The fanbase is turning on him fast.

DCHawker said:

@DCHawker ISU was favored by 25.5. Florida A&M's first win EVER against a Power 5 conference. 0-109 before this debacle (for ISU).

Whaaa? - - I was reading off the Iowa State Article from Cyclone Fanatic - that they were 0-72 over the last 20 seasons. - -what you read must of net all the way back to when the Injuns still riding the West lmao

Baylor beats Texas Tech setting up a huge game on Saturday. I hope we're not asleep in Ames tomorrow.

@KirkIsMyHinrich

Huge game for sure

Watching the Baylor/Tech game some things stood out.

Baylor does not play zone with this group. They have 5 guards that can play with anyone. Vital rebounds (he's a pest), Clark is still not 100% and Gillespie is a glue blue collar guy out there. Tough team to play against.

Tech is super small, don't have a player over 6'7 in the lineup. Holyfield and Clarke are really stretch bigs that can handle it especially Clarke who's really a PG out there and their best passer. Ramsey is their best player, sort of in the Jarrett Culver mold. Can't imagine he sticks around for year two the way he's playing.

We're about to find out how good our 4 guard lineup can really be facing these two clubs. Both these clubs will go 5 out at times on offensive sets which we all know is KU's Achilles heal

Both defend at a high level. Tech defends the 3 point line like their life depends on it @HighEliteMajor.

Another defensive principle that you usually don't see. Tech won't trap the post entry but they will bait you to go over your right shoulder and bring a secondary defender over to either block the shot, foul, take a charge or double team the player going up for a shot. I saw this numerous times where Baylor didn't recognize or didn't run a guard or player cutting to the hoop for an easy basket. Tech figured the player wouldn't be savvy enough to pass it and it was effective defensive tactic. Beard is a dude

BeddieKU23 said:

Watching the Baylor/Tech game some things stood out.

Baylor does not play zone with this group. They have 5 guards that can play with anyone. Vital rebounds (he's a pest), Clark is still not 100% and Gillespie is a glue blue collar guy out there. Tough team to play against.

Tech is super small, don't have a player over 6'7 in the lineup. Holyfield and Clarke are really stretch bigs that can handle it especially Clarke who's really a PG out there and their best passer. Ramsey is their best player, sort of in the Jarrett Culver mold. Can't imagine he sticks around for year two the way he's playing.

We're about to find out how good our 4 guard lineup can really be facing these two clubs. Both these clubs will go 5 out at times on offensive sets which we all know is KU's Achilles heal

Both defend at a high level. Tech defends the 3 point line like their life depends on it @HighEliteMajor.

Another defensive principle that you usually don't see. Tech won't trap the post entry but they will bait you to go over your right shoulder and bring a secondary defender over to either block the shot, foul, take a charge or double team the player going up for a shot. I saw this numerous times where Baylor didn't recognize or didn't run a guard or player cutting to the hoop for an easy basket. Tech figured the player wouldn't be savvy enough to pass it and it was effective defensive tactic. Beard is a dude

Beard is definitely a dude, can flat out coach! It will be interesting to see where Tech finishes this year. Do you want a crystal ball prediction (though a no-brainer)? It is going to be damn hard for them to keep him in Lubbock. Once Shaka gets canned the Longhorns will come calling.

@Marco

It will be interesting to see if he takes a lateral move in the Big-12. He's pulled a fast one before but something tells me if he gets a bigger gig its outside the Big-12. Just seems like the type of guy that wouldn't do that to a school.

A side note: Texas doesn't deserve a coach like him anyway. He's rejuvenated Lubbock but I don't ever see Austin caring enough about Basketball to deserve him

I watched that whole game as well. Neither of those teams are very gifted on the offensive side of the ball. Ramsey can stroke it for Tech but other than that their offense is extremely stale. Baylor can really guard, but they too do not have a very good offense. If KU can guard like they have been and knock down some shots they should win Saturday. Doke will have a huge advantage against both of those teams as neither one has a post player close to his level.

Woodrow said:

I watched that whole game as well. Neither of those teams are very gifted on the offensive side of the ball. Ramsey can stroke it for Tech but other than that their offense is extremely stale. Baylor can really guard, but they too do not have a very good offense. If KU can guard like they have been and knock down some shots they should win Saturday. Doke will have a huge advantage against both of those teams as neither one has a post player close to his level.

Oh I have to disagree with that - - to a point anyways. - -Baylor. - has got 3 really good guards Butler is really good , Vanboo or whatever is pretty good, Gillispie is coming on good rim protector - offensive side coming on -- don't be fooled Baylor is legit - - very legit -they didn't get their ranking by chance. - - It's going o be a war come Saturday.

This was Baylor's first road game of the season and of all the games I've seen them play this season this was probably their B- effort. They weren't great against Texas either over the weekend so I think its just where the team is right now in the flow of the season.

Tech really had a solid defensive game plan for Baylor to limit perimeter looks. The lack of a frontcourt cost them against Baylor which always seems to rebound well, they had a 19 rebound edge, and Vital/Gillespie had 23 boards themselves.

Baylor's 5 guards are as good as KU's 5 guards. Their frontcourt is not as good as our frontcourt. They have Scott Drew, we have Self. Saturday we have home court. It's imperative KU holds court on Saturday

And Scott Drew continues (I think) to make great strides as a coach. An unfair whipping boy, I'd say.

HighEliteMajor said:

And Scott Drew continues (I think) to make great strides as a coach. An unfair whipping boy, I'd say.

Against Self, he seems to struggle.

Have no issue with him, he's really changed his style up this season with the personnel he has.

HighEliteMajor said:

And Scott Drew continues (I think) to make great strides as a coach. An unfair whipping boy, I'd say.

I have to agree. I would say Scott may not be an elite but I fully think he is a better Coach then some give him credit for. - -He has brought that program back along ways