I know how dare I say such things right ? Sorry but the things we have going on right now, this is not a Champion team.

We just have a lot of negatives that down the line if these things continue , come Tourney time is going to cost us - - and cost us big. We play like we have been in the tourney against better teams, well really with our history of being upset and the way this season has played out already for upper elite teams being beat by lesser knowns , if things continue we will be done.

We have a series of things : Poor 3 point shooting , Careless turnovers , Poor free throw shooting , Key players not showing up that we need at important times important games exp ( Agbaji ) like where was he yesterday ? was non exsistent - -what was his line ? never hardly even heard his name mentioned at all yesterday I think he had like maybe 2 shot attempts in the 1st half for being the most athletic we need to have him step up more /show.

Just to dam inconsistent in to many area's , if we don't start hitting more 3's and I'm talking about with some consistency teams come tourney time if not before are gonna pack Doke like a can of sardines he will not even sniff the ball. We got Moss to try and help BUT if he is inconsistent - and can't hit - -what good is he ?sure nothing defensively. Lots of area for concern.

I'm just saying and you can acknowledge - - OR NOT but the line doesn't lie - -when you shoot 65.7 from the line turn the ball over almost 15 times a game - - and your 3 point shooting is questionable at least - -that spells trouble come tourney time.

Can these things be fixed ? - -GOD I hope so , and believe they can - if they don't get fixed then it will be a short run. At this present time with these problems , this is a Sweet 16 team at best. you can sugar coat these problems around and try to cast a positive spin around them then - - - GOOD LUCK, your blinders are thicker then I thought it is what it is. - - the present status of play you MIGHT be able to maybe win another Conference title a NCAA Title -- no way , not right now anyways unless the things I listed get addressed/fixed.

No one else is. That happens every year until someone wins it.

I could not watch the game closely enough to tell if Huggins adjusted to shut down Dotson at the half. Anyone have an idea about that?

I thought they were denying him the ball, plus we were able to hit doke. Can't rewind and they don't show instant replay much.

whispers Self adjusted by taking the game out of Dot's hands a bit as well. whispers

Vegas says otherwise on KU being a title contender. Going into the weekend, Caesar's Sportsbook had KU as the favorites and most other reputable betting sites have KU as a top 3 favorite.

There's about 10 teams I could make a legitimate argument for in regards to why they'll win the title this year and KU is one of those teams.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

Vegas says otherwise on KU being a title contender. Going into the weekend, Caesar's Sportsbook had KU as the favorites and most other reputable betting sites have KU as a top 3 favorite.

There's about 10 teams I could make a legitimate argument for in regards to why they'll win the title this year and KU is one of those teams.

Big difference between a contender and Champion - -the way we are playing at the present - will not win a championship. - these free throws or turning the ball over - sooner or later is gonna come back and bite you right square in the ass. - -A championship team can not handle the ball that loosely mostly even unforced turnovers/non pressured and shoot 65 % from the line and expect to win a championship. - -You can't have starting players disappearing during crunch time plain and simple - -screw vegas odds that's are they are is odds - that doesn't help win you o the floor those odds don't make any difference

jayballer73 said:

Texas Hawk 10 said:

Vegas says otherwise on KU being a title contender. Going into the weekend, Caesar's Sportsbook had KU as the favorites and most other reputable betting sites have KU as a top 3 favorite.

There's about 10 teams I could make a legitimate argument for in regards to why they'll win the title this year and KU is one of those teams.

Big difference between a contender and Champion - -the way we are playing at the present - will not win a championship. - these free throws or turning the ball over - sooner or later is gonna come back and bite you right square in the ass. - -A championship team can not handle the ball that loosely mostly even unforced turnovers/non pressured and shoot 65 % from the line and expect to win a championship. - -You can't have starting players disappearing during crunch time plain and simple - -screw vegas odds that's are they are is odds - that doesn't help win you o the floor those odds don't make any difference

There's no dominant team this season. KU's defense is good enough to carry them to a title this year.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

jayballer73 said:

Texas Hawk 10 said:

Vegas says otherwise on KU being a title contender. Going into the weekend, Caesar's Sportsbook had KU as the favorites and most other reputable betting sites have KU as a top 3 favorite.

There's about 10 teams I could make a legitimate argument for in regards to why they'll win the title this year and KU is one of those teams.

Big difference between a contender and Champion - -the way we are playing at the present - will not win a championship. - these free throws or turning the ball over - sooner or later is gonna come back and bite you right square in the ass. - -A championship team can not handle the ball that loosely mostly even unforced turnovers/non pressured and shoot 65 % from the line and expect to win a championship. - -You can't have starting players disappearing during crunch time plain and simple - -screw vegas odds that's are they are is odds - that doesn't help win you o the floor those odds don't make any difference

There's no dominant team this season. KU's defense is good enough to carry them to a title this year.

your not getting disagreement from me on the KU defense - - the sloppiness on the offensive side is whats gonna be the issue - - the slow starts - the poor shooting from 3 - - the poor free throw shooting - - -the turnovers

@jayballer73 Of course KU can win a national title. Of course they’re in the discussion. Someone stating the obvious.

But to you’re point .. we’ve all watched enough BB to know that this offense can’t win a NC the way the game is played in 2020, the way it is functioning now.

Cliff Clavin always has the answer though.

HighEliteMajor said:

@jayballer73 Of course KU can win a national title. Of course they’re in the discussion. Someone stating the obvious.

But to you’re point .. we’ve all watched enough BB to know that this offense can’t win a NC the way the game is played in 2020, the way it is functioning now.

Cliff Clavin always has the answer though.

Okay, then we'll win it this year by playing the way that it was played in 1920.

Everyone can see the Offense isn't elite but the defense is one of the best Self has ever had. This is still a top 15 offense nationally so I do think we tend to be overcritical..

What I do think is comparable is the difference in spacing, energy, movement and efficiency in the 4 guard vs 2 big lineup. I was hoping Jesse or someone would run the numbers soon on the difference.

Things have changed in the past two months. Dave is not a 4 man, its clear to see. Braun is starting to earn Self's trust since the Nova game. Enaruna is going through freshman things now and struggling to impact the game against better competition removing him from heavy minutes. Braun gives Self 5 guards to rotate and switch to the 4 guard lineup. Self trusting in his 5 guards seems to be the key to the offense maximizing its potential

@BeddieKU23 We don't have a 4 man on the entire roster. Jalen is the closest.

@Marco Even in 1920 they could hit free throws.

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 We don't have a 4 man on the entire roster. Jalen is the closest.

And even if he was healthy would we trust him to defend the way Self demands?

Looking at the entire schedule the rest of the way most are playing 4 out. Braun's emergence is really fortuitous to Self re-thinking his lineup and style of play going forward.

@BeddieKU23

I think Braun is showing us he will be a key to our success at a late run.

drgnslayr said:

@BeddieKU23

I think Braun is showing us he will be a key to our success at a late run.

We may want to bookmark this as the potential turning point

@BeddieKU23

Or not.... you do know I have a way of jinxing everything. Ha. But seriously, Braun isn't going to be taken down by a jinx. He is definitely showing he has a solid basketball IQ, especially since he is just a freshman. And how do you like that outside shot of his? I'm expecting him to develop into a 40%+ shooter from trey sometime in his KU career. And a player with ice in his veins.

drgnslayr said:

@BeddieKU23

Or not.... you do know I have a way of jinxing everything. Ha. But seriously, Braun isn't going to be taken down by a jinx. He is definitely showing he has a solid basketball IQ, especially since he is just a freshman. And how do you like that outside shot of his? I'm expecting him to develop into a 40%+ shooter from trey sometime in his KU career. And a player with ice in his veins.

I believe that Braun is a future pro.

VanVleet II?

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 We don't have a 4 man on the entire roster. Jalen is the closest.

Enaruna is a 4. Not a great one right now, but that’s his spot. Silvio can be a 4 given his athleticism at skill level. Just needs to put it together.

@drgnslayr

Loved his poise in the West Virginia game and really the last 4 games or so he hasn't looked like a freshman out there. That's key as we head into Big-12 play and further, we have a freshman making an impact going into the middle part of the season that not only fans are seeing as important but the boss man himself.

I think he's a good shooter, he was coming out of high school. Staff may tinker with getting a higher release at some point but I love his confidence from what I've seen and I think he'll continue to make big shots going forward. What's been most surprising about him is his ability to get into the lane and then finish over bigger defenders. One of these days he's going to rise up and poster someone as he tried to do over that Mammoth sized Tshiebwe. Braun is looking like another excellent find for the staff.

@BeddieKU23 One wonders what a change in focus would have brought us over the past 10 years, recruiting wise, seeing Agbaji and Braun. I suspect it might have rendered better return than the mostly empty chasing of the presumed OADs. Add Brauns and Agbajis to the Wilsons, Enanuras, etc. - guys like that who have high level talent as well. But hey, we got one season of Kelly Oubre, so we have that ... and we can say he's in the NBA. I know that really excites me.

@HighEliteMajor

We also got Josh "unpacked his bags" Jackson, he's in the G-League

Or success story Joel, or the "next Wilt" Andrew Wiggins who are in the league.

For every recruiting strategy there are strengths and weaknesses.

Recruiting the Oubre/Wiggins types keeps recruits eyes on your program if they are successful in the NBA. Would KU be as successful today if they avoided the Top 100 kids all together the last 10 years?

Self and his staff definitely went through a period where they chased the top talent exclusively. They still do put their hat in the ring for top talent (Bryce Thompson) but its clear to see the recruiting strategy has changed recently bringing in Garrett, Agbaji, Braun and then next season having Harris, Grant-Foster among others sprinkled in. Next years team may only have 2 High School All American's on the roster (Dave, Bryce) and half a dozen or so Top 100 players.. Going to be interesting to see if it pays off.

Tshiebwe was a 4-star recruit. It appears we mildly recruited him. That guy is a beast and not a 5-star. Wish he was a Jayhawk.

It really is all about having an eye for talent and not just floating on rankings. High rankings do work against us in several ways. It tends to create distraction often because the press surround them. It creates some natural separation within the team because elite-ranked players receive different treatment. We have elites only one year and that makes it tough every year to replace them and we can only get so far with them in that one year. We get "our moneys worth" when players come and stay a while. When their rankings are lower it makes it tough for them to leave too early.

@BeddieKU23 Understand your points. It's not totally black and white. Cliff, Diallo, Wiggins, Oubre, Embiid (though he wasn't a presumed OAD), Josh, Grimes. In 16, JJ made a big impact. The others? I would not have lost a bit of sleep if we had lost the Big 12 in '14 without Wiggins. Heck, we got embarrassed by Stanford and didn't get out of the first weekend. You suggest intangible benefit as well. I hear you. That discussion is worth something.

From Wilt to Manning to Wiggins, or some such nonsense. I have the magazine but cannot permit it to adorn the wall of my basement. My final choice was between the one with EJ on the cover and the Wiggins cover. I chose EJ -- I mean, the crotch shot could have been an accident, right, maybe??

@drgnslayr Gotta get our "money's worth" -- literally and figuratively. But I have no knowledge of any benefits provided by any third parties to any of our players (or something like that), right?

@drgnslayr

Yup we did recruit Tshiebwe but West Virginia had the inside track with him from the beginning so there wasn't much we could do in that recruitment. Knowing what kind of player he was coming into College it's no surprise how he played against us in Allen. He'll be in the NBA next year.

@FarmerJayhawk Even then, Enaruna is maybe more of a wing. Close either way and I'm not looking to have a big debate about it. He is capable of playing the position no doubt.

BeddieKU23 said:

@drgnslayr

Yup we did recruit Tshiebwe but West Virginia had the inside track with him from the beginning so there wasn't much we could do in that recruitment. Knowing what kind of player he was coming into College it's no surprise how he played against us in Allen. He'll be in the NBA next year.

Even Kentucky couldn't lure him away. Enough said.

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

@drgnslayr

Yup we did recruit Tshiebwe but West Virginia had the inside track with him from the beginning so there wasn't much we could do in that recruitment. Knowing what kind of player he was coming into College it's no surprise how he played against us in Allen. He'll be in the NBA next year.

Even Kentucky couldn't lure him away. Enough said.

I remember us conceding that recruitment up pretty early. Refreshing to see a guy stick to his connection and not be lured by the "big blue". Guy is going to be in the NBA regardless of where he played this year.

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 One wonders what a change in focus would have brought us over the past 10 years, recruiting wise, seeing Agbaji and Braun. I suspect it might have rendered better return than the mostly empty chasing of the presumed OADs. Add Brauns and Agbajis to the Wilsons, Enanuras, etc. - guys like that who have high level talent as well. But hey, we got one season of Kelly Oubre, so we have that ... and we can say he's in the NBA. I know that really excites me.

What you just brought up is not a mute point.... Personally, I say recruit the hell out of the Agbajis and Brauns of the world - they're winners. When we land a bigtime recruit - and we have and will - that is fine and good, but there is bigtime talent being brought up in Wichita and KC that cannot be ignored.

@BeddieKU23 Interesting indeed. It is already paying off.

BeddieKU23 said:

@drgnslayr

Yup we did recruit Tshiebwe but West Virginia had the inside track with him from the beginning so there wasn't much we could do in that recruitment. Knowing what kind of player he was coming into College it's no surprise how he played against us in Allen. He'll be in the NBA next year.

As I recall Kentucky wanted him pretty badly too.

They did indeed. Kid didn't go to WVU for free that's for sure.

@BShark

All kids go to West Virginia for free right?

In all seriousness wasn't there some rock solid connection between him, Konate & his HS coach?

Interesting stuff here 🐦 View Tweet?s=21

FarmerJayhawk said:

Interesting stuff here 🐦 View Tweet?s=21

This doesn't support the Bill Self is a choker narrative. Please advise.

Titles define.

I don’t any team has championship written all over them. Season is young though.

Well , let me say this again . At the present time , this is NOT a Championship team.

Things are playing a major part right now. #1 Teams are starting to figure out how to defend us. - -until we can prove different you will see more and more. - Going to see teams back off make KU beat them from the outside , double Doke every time he touch's the ball , give their team mate weakside help with Doke.

Until the guys can prove that they can make that outside J /3 pt shot on a consistent bases , your going to see more and more of a sagging defense.

Today was a perfect example , if we can't hit the outside J with any regularity why should they press up on us ? Allows then to give help defense on the interior. # 2 - If we don't clean up this mess of taking care of the ball - - - these are things that are keeping us from being a Championship team at this point. We can't just hit one - - or two 3"s and expect to change things. At this point I would think at the present time this is more of a Sweet Sixteen team - possibly Great 8 - but for sure not a final 4 team , not with how we are playing - just not.

I for one am glad teams have figured KU out so early in the season. Maybe Bill can make adjustments to shore up some of these deficiencies. It’s way better than getting exposed in March.

dylans said:

I for one am glad teams have figured KU out so early in the season. Maybe Bill can make adjustments to shore up some of these deficiencies. It’s way better than getting exposed in March.

let's hope he can guy. -- ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@dylans it could work in our favor for sure and as I always say, we don’t want to be playing our best ball in December or January. I’m a little worried at the same time because Self seems so hard set in his ways.

So I was at another conference with my good old KSU friends (sarcasm) when asked how KU looked at basketball this year. I replied, “Bad.” This elicited an involuntary smile from him and he leaned in to get the scoop. “It’s not likely KU makes it past the Elite Eight unless they tighten things up.”shaking my head,”Another down year.” He walked away.

@dylans ya dirty dawg

At present 1/16/20, KU is Kenpom's #1 team in the land.

Surprisingly the gap between KU/Duke and Baylor is over 4 points 29.3 to 25.2 in adjusted efficiency margin. It's surprising cause KU got taken to the woodshed by #3

12 Offense, #3 defense behind West Virginia/Virgina but the gap is close.

I broke down and bought a subscription and I'm interested to see what information I can pull out that could be useful to post on here.

Some team stats.

Top 10 in 2ptFG% (8th)

Top 100 in 3ptFG% (64th), however (279th) in % of shots being 3's.

93rd in Assist Rate- Supports this being an average passing team, at best.

The Defense is playing at a high level however one alarming stat to pay attention at the bottom.

Block Rate (20th)- Almost all Doke. His improvement as a rim protector has been awesome to see.

Steal Rate (34th)- Been a strong point most of the season, Dotson ranks high individually here + the Combo of Garrett/Agbaji/Braun they are pesky.

Assist Rate (226)- Well above average at forcing teams to get their own offense.

Opponent 2ptFG% (23rd)- size and length bothers teams, generally this teams doesn't give up easy baskets.

Opponent 3ptFG% (32nd)- Teams are not making their 3's against KU however they are taking a lot of shots from 3.

Opponent 3pt Attempts (345th)- Teams are shooting more 3's against KU due to the strong inside the perimeter defense but on the flip side not making the attempts. How lucky is this. In a one game sample- say in March I don't like this stat at all. Ex- Nova & Auburn.

@dylans That's really funny! Kind of sums up we KU fans, though.

Another interesting thing to note about Tempo and how that correlates to Offense/Defense.

KU is bottom 100 in Tempo (possessions per game)

Note: KU is actually Top 100 in possession length on Offense - they get a shot off every 16.5 seconds on average.

However its the defense that's actually slowing tempo- KU is bottom 30 in the nation in possession length on defense- which supports teams having to work hard to get a good shot.

Virginia for example- worst team in the nation in tempo, also top 10 in defensive possession length.

I wasn't surprised to see Texas near the bottom of this list as well with Michigan's defensive guru coach on staff now. I would reckon the game in Austin Saturday will be low scoring and hard to watch.

K-St was also top 10 in this stat too. Imagine if the defense wasn't somewhat decent, would K-St even have 5 wins..