🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Interesting conversations this week. My response on the call for screaming and chest pounding, and alleged emotion. My post that created some anger. This from the team and coach that rarely if ever extend a hand to help an opponent off the ground over many seasons. The tolerance of horrible conduct has spanned many seasons. Agbaji, Braun, and Garrett have been exceptions this season. Perhaps that's more what Self should inspire:

I’ll take this every day over what has become the norm — pounding chests and screaming. I doubt this more reserved, respectful approach has cost us anything. The “look at me” athlete has nothing on Barry Sanders, Marcus Allen, Dr. J, etc.

Joyful emotion is different. That has always been a positive part of sports.

But the look at me b.s, flexing, screaming, pounding the chest, bobbing the head, all that stupid gyrating crap, is the disgusting part of team sports.

Quite simply, a product of not being taught how to act like a man.

If Self is attempting to inspire this, he’s an idiot. But I’ve seen Self’s teams walk over opponents without a negative word from Self, and have seen us fail/refuse to offer help opponents up and just walk away as a regular course of conduct.

This season I’ve seen Agbaji offer to help opponents up. Garett too. Kids that were raised the right way. Hopefully Self doesn’t coach that out of them.

Thank you, DeSousa, standing over our opponent like a thug helps prove a point. Look, this is destructive. It's a cancer. It's infected all of sports. Where did all this come from? I wonder.

And on Braun and the 4/1 vs. starting McCormack? Self acknowledging our best lineup yet, inexplicably, running out Doke and Dave together:

@BeddieKU23 You’re right. He’s not. He just answered the question. He knows it too. We all know it. Playing Doke and Dave together, but for a perfect match-up situation, is irrationality. He can’t give a logical reason to do so. If chemistry gives us the better +/-, fine. But it doesn’t (Saturday was an outlier).

We have to stomach the bad and commit to Braun. Four minutes is a joke. We have no idea what the next 4, 8, or 12 minutes would have looked like. If Self didn’t play Braun because he sucked in his four minutes, Self is foolish. Really, Self played Dave because he thought it was best TODAY. Completely short- sighted. And Dave was so-so today. One nice stretch.

This goes to Self’s historical over emphasis on the regular season. What do we need to be in March? Does he really care about March or the precious Big 12?

We should play 4/1 ALL THE TIME even if it means a loss. All the time. We won’t get to the FF piece-mealing this. And we won’t get to the FF as a 3/2 team.

We need to try and perfect what gives us a title chance, and play the players necessary to reach our peak. My opinion.

It is completely irrational to massage an “ego” (if that’s the reason) and compromise winning an NC this season.

Next season there’s a very reasonable chance we’re not in the tourney anyway. But forgetting that for a moment, it’s still completely irrational.

This is worse than many other instances where we question Self because he has admitted clearly the composition of our best lineup and scheme. His own words.

Let’s not think that “Self knows.” He admitted back a few years ago that he didn’t know. That our view of three point shooting was correct and he was wrong. Further, lack of FFs and NCs with consistent top 5 rosters would seem to indicate the man doesn’t have all the answers. We just went a full decade without a national championship and only sniffing it once (2012).
posted in KU Basketball.

Just finished watching the game and immediately thought about that discussion.

As I said -- "If Self is attempting to inspire this, he’s an idiot. But I’ve seen Self’s teams walk over opponents without a negative word from Self, and have seen us fail/refuse to offer help opponents up and just walk away as a regular course of conduct."

@HighEliteMajor “Thank you, DeSousa, standing over our opponent like a thug helps prove a point. Look, this is destructive. It’s a cancer. It’s infected all of sports. Where did all this come from? I wonder.”
Professional wrestling most likely. A sport watched primarily by young white men.

Lol
White men

Sorry bud if you’re going to blame white guys for this you are an idiot.

@BigBad Just as big an idiot as someone who would blame black guys. That’s the point.

The people responsible are the ones who did it. There are other factors obviously. Greyson Allen started more fights than most college basketball teams out together.

NBA culture of stare downs and standing over guys after dunks and blocks. THIS is why guys should get technicals for ANY form of taunting.

@BigBad

Biracial blame in the NBA IMHO. But it is not new by any means. Bill Laimbeer comes to mind.

@mayjay Bird was as dirty as any of em!

@mayjay DUde Lambieer played 20 years ago! I'm not talking about fouling hard or cheap shots.

I'm talking about standing over guys or staring them down. It's BULL SHIT! If someone stood over me I'd kick them in the nuts. You can talk all you want because the whole crowd doesn't hear it.
When you stand over someone or stare you are embarrassing someone in front of the entire crowd. MANY men would fight out of embarrassment.

Who the F brought up race....GEEZ

Bird...Lambier...LOL Look at Malice in the Palace.

BigBad said:
MANY men would fight out of embarrassment.

Ding ding ding! There it is. Toxic masculinity for the win.

BigBad said:

Who the F brought up race....GEEZ

That’d be the guy with the whole thread about how black culture is inherently violent.

I think this board needs a 5 minute break. Rock Chalk. 🤘

benshawks08 said:

BigBad said:
MANY men would fight out of embarrassment.

Ding ding ding! There it is. Toxic masculinity for the win.

The disgusting leftist.

@HighEliteMajor It’s disgusting to think violence is a reasonable response to embarrassment? I thought you were against violence. Do you have a response other than crying leftist?

Hee hee hee! My knee jerked!

"Joyful emotion is different. That has always been a positive part of sports."

I certainly don't condone when negative emotions bubble up one bit, it's immature and shows a lack of self control. But it's two sides of the same coin. Emotion is defined as "a natural instinctive state of mind deriving from one's circumstances, mood, or relationships with others." Training men to fight their baser instincts is worthy endeavor. But expecting that kids will only show positive and mature emotions under duress, seems unlikely.

In a highly charged atmosphere filled with college age kids, is it realistic to only expect good emotions 100% of the time? I know I had moments of immaturity and lack of self control at that age, hell, I still do. Yes, I'm not representing a blueblood program, I get that these young men must be held to higher standards. Hopefully they can learn from this outburst and see that there are repercussions to losing your cool, but hopefully not career-ending repercussions if no one is injured.

My first lesson in sports came when I was 5.

A kid bigger than me drove the lane and ran over me like a mac truck.

Lesson #1: Humility

This is where it should start for everyone. I thank God for that bloody nose!

My sister and I were on the same team in h.s. We were playing spearville, home of the 6ft Stein gals- figure that out? I got a hard elbow to the face, no call and my sister went after the gal. I caught her first. Not sure what she would have done. We've never hit anybody ever before, or since then, but we are family and extremely competitive! Silvio is a good kid. Life's not been easy for him. I've said before, he was wrong. I'm sure nobody feels worse than him. I don't care if you pile on me.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think Silvio probably is a good kid that made a horrible mistake. If this is truly his first transgression, then he deserves a second chance...... a stiff penalty for sure, but not a dismissal. IMO.

@Crimsonorblue22 "I got a hard elbow to the face, no call and my sister went after the gal. I caught her first..... I don’t care if you pile on me."

Heck, no, I ain't pilin' on! Don't want to p--- off your sister!

So - is anyone marketing "Rockem, Sockem Jayhawks" yet ?

Please don't anyone take offense at this, it's my way of dealing with grief/disgust/sorrow. SMH.

geez was brought up. There has been some talk about 10 game suspension for Silvio, kind of Bizarre guess where our 11th game would be - -the 1st game Silvio would be eligible to play coming off the suspension? - Kansas State - -OMG - -they REALLY better watch this close it's going to be a powder keg

Just think of possible Jamari Traylor 2. only just a little more

@jayballer73

If Silvio's suspension was shorter, Self still wouldn't take him to Manhattan. And, by chance, if Silvio is still here beyond this year, I seriously doubt he will ever see Manhattan again.

Just my opinion.

@Crimsonorblue22 Come on girl, show us the team photo!

@wrwlumpy it would be a lot of digging! If one exists

I keep hearing the word "kid". At what age are these athletes judged to be adults. I believe they should attain that status at the age of 18. I felt myself an adult at that age. Just wondering.

@nuleafjhawk lol

drgnslayr said:

@jayballer73

If Silvio's suspension was shorter, Self still wouldn't take him to Manhattan. And, by chance, if Silvio is still here beyond this year, I seriously doubt he will ever see Manhattan again.

Just my opinion.

ya I don't think even if he were available , no way would you see him in Manhattan. - - Also I thinking more and more he WILL be back next year. really the only option he would have would maybe oversea's some where and I'm not sure even there. He is just so raw.- -Thing is though will Bill bring him back or will he say he think it might be better for him to go. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

I think this post is a little off base. Yes, I’d like to see more emotion from this team. That doesn’t translate to taunting, technical fouls and getting into fisticuffs. Silvio isn’t even from this country, we have idea how we grew up. I’ve lived in the inner cites and small town America, they share the trait of people having to man up if they run their mouths. Now it wasn’t the right time or place but best believe if 4 guys come running at me. I’m going to have a very violent reaction. In terms of staring down folks, its stupid and doesn’t belong on the court. That being said we have been stared down multiple times this year by Dook and Dayton. Everytime #1 made a shot for Dayton, he stared down our bench. It happens and usually doesn’t warrant bench players charging the culprit. Larry Bird did plenty of trash talking and was involved in numerous scuffles in his playing days. He was raised in small town Indiana.

@kjayhawks The act of defending yourself, scrapping a bit is not what I’m referring to. Men fight. DeSousa defended himself. I don’t take issue with that.

It’s the standing over an opponent, the poor sportsmanship, the taunting, self promotion, the look at me b.s, — flexing, screaming, pounding the chest, bobbing the head, all that stupid gyrating garbage.

It’s centers in the glorification of the “thug life” mentality — @drgnslayr referred to it in another post. Many want to emulate thugs. And that’s how thugs act.

Articles from 15 or so years ago that seem to predict the future -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2006-01-17-0601170177-story,amp.html ↗

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/1/scary-monsters/ ↗

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/news/la-op-pasadena4dec04-story.html%3f_amp=true ↗

That sure as he** isn’t rural Indiana. But the cultural cancer has spread everywhere. So don’t even think to equate Larry Bird with that. Larry Bird is far from that. But so is Magic Johnson, Dr. J, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, et. al. See a difference?

@HighEliteMajor I agree that there is cultural problems in the inner cities but it’s not limited to one race. The rural communities are starting to see a huge meth problem. I went to 2A school in the middle of nowhere, I’ve literally seen farm kids do what you are talking about on the football field.

Self was on Gameday. Good stuff.

@kjayhawks Completely agree. “Cultural” issues everywhere. For example, the culture within the Catholic Church that suborned sex abuse. Ignoring it doesn’t work. The issue with the violent inner city culture is that it leads to large numbers being killed and maimed — murder, robbery, and complete disrespect for life. Glorifying the thug is at the heart of it.

And the less important aspect of what we see from athletes on the court and field is just a spread of that cancer.

HEM, I grew up with a bunch of punks in rural Kansas. They were thugs and had no contact to inner cities.

Sure, environment matters - but by no means is the inner city the source of the virus and it spread from there. Punks and thugs abound. I've seen them in all walks of life and from a very diverse set of backgrounds.

There is no one factor you can point to that is a determining factor. Divorced or not, number of parents, one or two employed or not, education level... etc. all of these things are non-deterministic of behavior. The individual alone has the power to make their own choices about behavior.

The environment that probably matters most is family. Is respect and accountability valued? If so, probably no villains coming from that family, no matter where they live.

@bskeet You're right, punks and thugs everywhere. That's a given. Not the sole source of course anywhere. But when you talk drips in a bucket vs. pouring a glass of water in a bucket, that's the difference.

But where we see the pervasive violence and disregard for life is in the inner city. That particular culture of violence is perhaps the most destructive our nation has seen in many, many decades. It equals deaths and maiming -- over and over and over.

And you've hit on the exact issue I've identified in other posts -- family. 73% of the kids born to black mothers are born out of wedlock. Much higher than other races. And that rate is higher in the inner city. Bingo.

Rahm Emanuel was right on point. He said -

“Our kids need that structure… I am asking…that we also don’t shy away from a full discussion about the importance of family and faith helping to develop and nurture character, self respect, a value system and a moral compass that allows kids to know good from bad and right from wrong."

But in Chicago, it was outrage that he could suggest such a thing. Which goes to another one of your points -- "The individual alone has the power to make their own choices about behavior." See, one segment of our society doesn't see it that way. They blame everything but the individual. It's everyone else's fault. They're proud to make excuses. That was the reaction to Emanuel, who had seen this garbage up close as Chicago's two term mayor.

Just look where "respect and accountability" are not valued, and you'll see the epicenter of what I'm talking about. That's not the focus of the enablers.

See this link. You'll get a flavor of both sides.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/rahm-emanuel-under-increasing-fire-for-linking-chicago-violence-and-morals-in-minority-neighborhoods ↗

HighEliteMajor said:

But where we see the pervasive violence and disregard for life is in the inner city.

I'm no scholar on this but I would speculate this could be because of the density of population in those locations, (which is more people to commit crimes and more people to report crimes) combined with the ratio of law enforcement to 'beat area'.. plus media access which provides amplification to injustices.

Again, just speculation, but if these factors could be normalized, the per capita difference might not be as dramatic a difference as we perceive it to be. (There's a lot that goes on out in the sticks that is never reported.)

My perspective is simply anecdotal based on the abundance of punks that I encountered growing up in rural Kansas (a place I still love, but not that part of it.)

@bskeet Wish that were the case but it’s not. Per Capita numbers are based on “per 100,000” in most of the calculations. For ex, in California, the per 100,000 rate for violent crime in Oakland is 1299 vs San Diego 366. In the Midwest, Kansas City 1724 vs Denver 675. The sad reality is that the highest crime areas in American cities are the mainly black, inner city zones.

One thing to mention to. In rural areas, when gun ownership is wildly pervasive, the incidents of gun related crime is disproportionately low. A different culture.

For example, look at the population of Johnson County, Kansas. Compare to Jackson County, Missouri.

The point I’ve made before, and my outrage is that no one seems to care. Outrage is reserved for the restaurant shooting in the suburbs. In KC, we listened to the fool mayor Sly James continue to blame guns. Never seems to be able to explain why the hundreds of thousands of guns in neighboring Johnson County Kansas seem to magically kill so few citizens.

The fact is a large majority of inner city folks are good people that want it to stop. In Baltimore, they initiated surveillance flights to stop crime. The typical whiners opposed but over 70% of Baltimore resident support such law enforcement efforts.

The enablers, the ones that blame others, are the ones that stand in the way of making this better. The same ones in the Rahm Emanuel article. No focus on personal responsibility.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.govtech.com/public-safety/Over-70-of-Baltimore-Supports-Disputed-Surveillance-Plane.html%3fAMP ↗

@HighEliteMajor A bit of a transition from the fairly broad category of thug behavior to gun violence... I get that one is a subset of the other, but not necessarily apples to apples.

Anyhoo.. I hear you. And the first step toward any kind of solution is for people to listen to each other, so here's hoping folks will listen, find the common ground and take the small steps to help those around them. Eventually a wave of respect could find its way to those who feel marginalized in the sticks or the inner cities and change the culture.

Ditto! Part of a path to a solution will be realizing that there are people of good will on both sides of both issues.

In other words, respecting other people without resorting to generalizations or allegations of evil intent.

I think this kind of "thuggery" is dominant in low income communities, whether they are inner city, or a trailer park on the edge of town, or anywhere else. It prospers in areas where education is low and the communities suffer different kinds of struggles than do middle and upper class neighborhoods. Higher income neighborhoods have their own kinds of thugs.... nagging neighbors who want to control what color you should paint your house. Angry people dragging you into court to intimidate and control you. Frivolous lawsuits.

I'm pretty sure some of those high income people would rather accept a fast jab to the liver rather than have to continue dealing with a pain in the butt neighbor who keeps dragging them into a courtroom.

Every culture has difficult people who will bring their hell to others.

@drgnslayr middle class thuggery - My neighbor the gd super intendants wife tried for over a year to kill my kid with peanuts because she knew he was allergic and she was mad at us. -Dumped a bowl of peanut shells over our fence and fed the squirrels so many on a daily basis uneaten peanuts were showing up 2 blocks away. They weren’t used to people standing up to them - he employs many of the women in town (half of a family there, has control over most of the people’s kids (and isn’t afraid to make them miserable to get at the parents) and hires the police force to either work at the school or for him personally to keep them under thumb - Needless to say they aren’t used to people standing up to them. No damn way I back down from someone actively trying to kill my kid. You’d be amazed how many people approached us with stories of the two bulling high school and grade school kids as well as the adults - she (also the student advisor/councilor) told a kid on graduation day “Why did you get bother getting that juco degree? You’ll never amount to anything.” Kid had just graduated HS and had enough college credits to get his Junior college degree and this is how she treats him.

After a few months of posturing and preparing (kids are homeschooled now, built an 8ft fence on the property line, I smile real big when I see him (SI)which pisses him off the most). Like I said they aren’t used to people standing up to them, so they sold their house and moved a few miles away.

Just one trip to the ER by my kid. No blows thrown. No swear words yelled. Thankfully all I had to do was stand my ground and they left. My next option was the nuclear one - the news wanted an interview. I’m glad that didn’t happen as it would’ve killed my career, but I would’ve done it to keep my kid safe. If the world is truly just - karma’s a bitch and they’ll both die slow horrible cancer ridden deaths for all the pain they’ve caused others.

@dylans

I really feel for you and your situation. I'm sure there must be many primal urges hitting your mind and soul. Advice is hard to give... this is extremely personal. I hope you keep your wits and your sanity about you. The best way to protect your child is to do whatever you can to control your emotions (stay calm) so you can make the proper moves.

Struggle is an opportunity to grow. Please remember that and grow through it.

Being vengeful will only escalate things and in the end will leave you with emptiness. Find a spiritual way forward and you will also be an example to your child on how to deal with struggles in life.

Sounds like we are on the same page!

You are in my thoughts...

@dylans I had been wondering how that was turning out. There are, unfortunately, people like that everywhere. Small people who think their big impact on everybody reflects their importance when it really opens a window into the yawning chasm that is the hollowness of their souls.

@mayjay Thanks. Since they’ve moved everything has been great. The new neighbors are great - never once threatened my kid. Lol apparently that’s too much to ask of some folks.

@dylans That's a horrible story to hear. I'm glad to know those awful neighbors have moved - I hope it was out of state!

@dylans I’m glad they moved. There is a lot people in my area that are highly thought of but some of the worst imaginable behind closed doors. I’d like to think the universe work some of that out but I’m not so sure anymore. I’ve always told myself there will come a time when I can even things out. I won’t spend a lot of time thinking of it til then. I wouldn’t recommend letting people live in your mind rent free, that’s how they win. You probably handled that situation much better than me. I’ve calmed down a bit since I had kids but I used to be on a lotta call lists for when the shit hits the fan and I’d be the one smiling ear to ear when it happened. The beast inside of me is asleep and I sure hope he stays there. If I was in your situation I would’ve put up cameras showing them doing that and of me repeatedly telling them he was allergic. He may own every judge in that town but once it hit the web, he’d be in trouble.

@kjayhawks Oh I did put up cameras after the bucket of peanuts was dumped over the fence. I let them know they were there, so they’d quit more than trying to catch them. I still caught her tearing up my property (police said they would prosecute, handed it off to another district and mothballed it - blue wall crap) and going on a rant about how they lived there first so that makes it ok. I replied what in the world does being here first matter? That doesn’t give you the right to endanger others, besides my family has lived on the block for 5 generations and you just moved here 10 years ago.

Lol, jerks

I love my new neighbors.