🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@JayHawkFanToo

Valid response, I think its trending towards a norm where the top kids are going to wait to the last minute now. I wouldn't be surprised to see none of the remaining kids sign til next spring.

Weird things have happened, kids have gone overseas like Jennings & Mudiay. Kids are re-classifying at an alarming rate (Wiggins, Towns) to mention a few. Duke literally may have to rely on a 2016 kid reclassifying to be their point guard next year.

ESPN plays a factor now too. They televise more and more HS games, and then when kids announce want them on TV to do it.

@JRyman

Duke isn't thin in the post. Top 15 pick Jeter is signed. They will have Jefferson and Plumlee. Also Sean Obi who transferred avg'd 9 rebounds as a freshman. Swanigan could go there but it seems like California has gained on him..

What they are missing is a playmaker and point guards assuming Jones goes pro with Okafor. They signed Kennard a shooting SF lefty.. Allen and Matt Jones at SG.
They are so desperate they are trying to get Thornton from the 16 class to reclassify.

@drgnslayr

It just looks more and more like Chaos recruiting than anything. We didn't sign anyone in the fall, but for the staff's sake almost everyone they were recruiting with regularity said they were going to wait. If it wasn't for getting Bragg in January I'm sure we'd be in even more meltdown mode. Knowing that, knowing guys would leave wouldn't it have been beneficial to try and lock someone else in the fall?? Nope we are stuck in the carousel waiting for a kid to get off at our stop...

You look at the 16 class and you see almost 30 kids already signed. Why haven't we locked in anyone yet? Goes into your fools gold statement of waiting around for that magical chair.
I look at a kid like Schnider Herard who was ranked in the #50's before rivals update is now up to #35. Sign him he's 6"10 250, don't wait for him to hit the grassroots stage and have a breakout summer and then next time he's in the top 15.. The kid has been to KU multiple times and we should already be trying to get him to verbal.

You know the top 10-15 kids are going to do the same thing that previous classes have done and wait. They know the exposure they get from holding out. I wonder if its as stressful for Self and staff as it is for us fans waiting and waiting for kids to announce on ESPN.

@sfbahawk

That was not my intent to say that certain players don't play hard. But I think we would all be fools if we didn't believe that kids that know they will get paid are more careful in the things they do. To a certain degree it has to do with consistent effort.

@drgnslayr

Do you think Self is selling Diallo the idea that Ellis if he stays will be getting more perimeter action. That the playing time Diallo wants could possibly be split to some of the 4 minutes mixed in with action at the 5. Perry could be a lethal 3 but I'd have to see him guard the position before I'd be sold on that idea.

@DinarHawk

Pump fake, ball handling, continue to work on his explosion to the hoop, perimeter defense, 3 ball. All things he could really benefit from staying. Oh and becoming a KU legend by finishing in the top 10 in KU scoring history..

marcus lee didn't declare

@drgnslayr

I think he will have to intensify his game further no matter what. He had maybe 5-6 games last year that were NBA worthy. I think a Senior year would really force that intensity on him more consistently. He clearly has to show more perimeter based skills both offensively and defensively. I'm certainly not speculating that the risk of injury has forced the NBA convo further ahead but anything is possible. He knows his position to scouts now and must make the best decision for himself and hopefully for KU.

One thing not mentioned with Ellis is that he could be looking to leave because of the risk of injury again. Until he got hurt, I don't think he had as much as a scrape on his arm in his career at KU. Suddenly he gets hurt which impacted his stock and season the way he was trending. Now he and his family are probably thinking what if I were to get hurt again. Just a thought..

There isn't any great 5's left to get. But in terms of system players and fit, Diallo & Thorne are it.

You could say Zimmerman's skill would be good in the high/low but he's already publicly said he's going to college for one year with the least risk. He could at least gave fans any hope that he'd try in his short career. AKA I'm going to do just enough to get by.

Maker is a UK system and possible red-flag written all over him. The fact that staying another year in prep school is a distinct possibility says that. He won't get better playing HS kids but it will allow him the least resistance to the league.

At this juncture Diallo is the only inkling of a player who could play more than 1 year of college ball.

@ralster

you can't replace Ellis if he leaves its that simple.

No wonder why Self has thrown is eggs into so many baskets this late. He's generally concerned he could leave as well.

@HighEliteMajor

A lot of resources were wasted on Cliff. If he hadn't signed early may we have gotten the package duke got?A big factor that slowed his development was the Ankle injury he got in the summer. That really kept him from developing any post skills or hard work ethics. I bet Self was frustrated that he couldn't "get it" especially the comment that he gave on his year as "interesting". After the fact it really looks like he could have used 2 more College years and maybe/probably could have had a similar year to T-Rob by that Jr. season.

The problem is these top rated kids don't have a "chip on their shoulder". They already believe they are the man through years of constant recruiting questions and hyped you-tube video's. They know if they just skate by and show enough effort that they will be making money in a year. I don't think there is any question that Frank Mason played with more effort than Kelly Oubre did all year. The difference was that all Oubre had to do was not get hurt and show enough skills at certain points of the season to get drafted. Mason at his size, is literally playing every game to even get on a NBA radar or a chance at a professional career. We will see more of this in his Jr. year.

I think that in itself deals with a lot of the issues you see in the College game. Coach K was able to mold a special group of Freshman into vet's. Great for him, now he's stuck with exactly 3-4 players returning. Cal did it when they beat KU in 2012, ended up in the NIT the next. It doesn't happen very often and will always be an "inexact science". Wisconsin made it to the finals through years of development and years of chemistry and PT. Next year if Dekker doesn't return, they will return back to rebuilding with a thin roster.. The College game is becoming more and more a yearly Russian Roulette where coaches are having to re-train an entire arsenal every 6-8 months.

Glad Johnson left, didn't want to watch another game in Manhattan where he hits 5 30 footers.

Now that the Harrison's are gone we are officially out of the Newman running and that is if we were ever really in it. He will be committing there any day now..

The Ellis situation scares me and not in a good way. No reason he shouldn't assess where he is but he's going to get nothing but a mid 2nd round grade. Awesome, nothing the internet couldn't have told you already. You come back and expand your game once again with more perimeter approach which is your only hope of sticking to a team. If you leave the sky is officially falling, no way KU is a top 20 team next year. You can't replace Perry with something better.

Whens the last time we had 3 year starters?? When's the last time we returned our leading scorer the following year. Ellis & Selden can be those guys, and you have to go back to Sherron Collins for the last time our leading scorer returned.

Spring recruiting is never a dull moment now. Especially when the entire KU team thinks they are NBA players

Ellis leaving would be the biggest joke in all of the Self Era. Regardless of whether he graduates early this would be the worst decision ever!!

He's going to have to be a SF in the league just ask Marcus Morris. He hasn't even transitioned into being a 3 yet. He was a decent 3 point shooter with nobody around. More and more rumblings seem to be saying he's going to go. Whatever dude, cripple the team even more.

Cliff was the #2 rated player in his class. He was disappointing and wasn't ready to fill the shoes we needed. We should have seen more out of him but his development will be for some NBA or d-league affiliate to figure out.

If fouls were called, or more, West Virginia wouldn't have 5 players to play.

How does Mason foul out against Wichita St?

@HighEliteMajor

Is Diallo an elite offensive talent that Okafor is. Not even close, Okafor has rare skill set for a big.

Diallo is a better defensive player even though he's a good 2 inches shorter and a few pounds lighter. I've seen enough games that weren't an all-star setting to know that Diallo can impact the game like no other big in his class. But if you throw him the ball in an Iso situation he's not going to score like Okafor could. The things that I like about Diallo the most is that he can get put-backs, an underrated skill, he runs the floor effortlessly and his hustle is never a question.

What do we want at the 5? A shotblocker? A footer? A scorer? Diallo is A, none are 2 but Thorne is close. and Zimmerman is the last.

Good luck Cliff. Thanks for making this decision in time for others to commit. (for real)

You underachieved greatly and thanks for that. (sarcasm)

We barely got the chance to see how good you could have been.

Now you can play in the NBDL. (no really, that's where your going)

@brooksmd

correct if he's not graduating in may.

@JayHawkFanToo

he changed his visit to the 22nd.

@JayHawkFanToo

Maybe he was wrong then, I just listened to his press conference from the other day about getting kids to stay more than a year. Seemed to him the incentive wasn't there or properly in place for kids to take advantage of in case something happened.

@DCHawker

I agree the collection of freshman was key, although I think Cook really was the engine of it all. Okafor controlled the game so much with his offensive ability and that was the key between last years duke and this years duke. Just like Wisconsin making the finals because of Kaminsky's offensive ability. He wasn't the sole reason but he probably was the biggest factor.

Jury is out on a lot of the transfers. But my point on that was kids that leave the program early that KU invested in them to be 3-4 year players is just as bad as knowing a top 10 kid could bolt after a year. Peters quit Basketball, Adams had more off-the court problems, White left for Nebraska, Lindsay left for New Mexico. Milton Doyle left before the first game, he's played pretty well at his new school. This year all that can stop if everyone stays that should.

Self can go into the fall with less teaching basic system knowledge and more coaching team and individual work. With Korea games and less roster turnover we will have a big advantage over the last 2 years going into the fall.

@JayHawkFanToo

From Cal's comments on 5-7 leaving those final 2 are likely the twins. They are unlikely to wow scouts at this point. The one thing to their advantage is good size for the league. It's usually hard to wow scouts once they form an opinion of you.

@JayHawkFanToo

Calipari eluded to that fact recently. If you come back to school and get hurt, your insurance isn't payed. The incentive for covering your risk is non-existent. If you want more kids to come back with the rules as is, give them the incentive to do so. Schools make millions on kids but can't fork out a few penny's to make it worth their while.

@DCHawker

Okafor might not have single handily won the championship but no way they make it past the first weekend without him. All American post who was close to winning the Naismith award. He dominated and without him Duke's at home eating popcorn with KU fans.

If Self is going to recruit the highest talent that has the chance to leave after a year then he better do something to make it work better than it has. That's on him to adjust to the times. Otherwise we can watch other Hall of Fame coaches continually do it for him. We are not going to magically stop going after top talent, we are a top program.

Self has attracted plenty of OAD's to KU. Just last year Oubre & Alexander signed in Nov. to answer your question of OAD's signing early.

We've lost just as many top 30-100 guys to transfers as we've lost OAD's to the NBA. Both have crippled depth and Self system time.

The problems with recruiting are mostly geography. We are not particularly close to a recruiting "hot-bed". There isn't 5-10 top rated recruits within a 5hr drive. KU might be a tradition rich basketball school but what else? That's why so much money is spent on recruiting. Luxury suites for the players is next, there's a reason for that and it has a lot to do with having a top flight facility and amenities to off-set advantages other schools have. We can't offer them Drake or Ashley Judd. We can't offer the ocean or warm weather during season. It's the mid-west, its the cards we are dealt.

Bragg could be a OAD as well. We just don't think that way because of the way he has presented himself in Interviews and his 10-20 ranking. Plus he's likely to get 15-20 minutes a game if Ellis is still here. But what if he has a better year than expected and feels he's ready. Not Self's fault, not his fault for putting a KU Jersey on him and maybe expected 2-3 years before going pro. College is just the escape goat for kids dreams. The rules as they are suck the life out of schools who invest heavily in them and don't get the rewards they may want out of it. If the rules change and bring more balance then we can talk about how 2AD's or 3AD's are ruining the game..

@jaybate-1.0

Okay lets assume Allen comes back, why wouldn't he, he barely got to play all year. Mcd's AA sthat was behind on depth chart until dismissal of Sulaimon.

OAD's still score about 67% of their points last night..

We can cry about OAD's all we want but some coaches have proven they can make it work.

OAD's just won a championship...Okafor just brought a championship to Duke.
What if the next OAD we get helps KU win the championship?

Next year if we don't land Schnider Herard I will flip a lid. Top 50 post who's been to KU several times. Great size and will need development in College. He's the type of player Self can have fun with.

2016 class is really not a class with a lot of established post players at this time. I know we have been recruiting Marcus Bolden & Tony Bradley. I'm sure others will pop up this summer but its definitely a guard heavy class.

Was the difference between winning a championship or bailing out in the 2nd round being the bridesmaids for Jones & Okafor. We recruited Winslow heavily as well.

OAD's just won a championship with a 4th freshman having the game of his life, another top 30 kid.
1 Senior and a 1 junior. There's no recipe for winning the crown other than having the entire team playing at a high level.

@drgnslayr

Very true,

We will need to know from the NCAA or Cliff will take it into his own hands by declaring. Either way he has until when? April 12th or April 26th to declare, or withdraw and return.

Can someone explain the underclassmen rules?

@REHawk

yes it will be interesting to see if that holds true this month or whenever he decides to spend one year of the least resistance in college.

Will be interesting to see if Diallo continues the momentum from the McDonald's game.

is Self not a very good coach for losing in the 2nd round 2 years in a row?

Can't wait til the threads are bantering back about KU instead of the other..

Stein all but said he was gone. Towns is Top 1-2 pick no way he turns that down.

Booker sounded more likely to return but he's also projected mid-first round. Lyles same.

I think the Harrisons will bail out even though they have no chance of getting guaranteed money in the first round. Newman will sign with Kentucky if that happens.

Ulis was the only guy that said he was coming back. Johnson is an enigma, he could start again next year and improve stock or leave now and be a gamble late 1st round.

@Statmachine

But you have to think he has a limited timeline for deciding doesn't he? If the NCAA makes no ruling soon and he comes back and is punished isn't that risking it. Right now he's probably slid to the bottom of first round/2nd round so he could still get guaranteed money. What if he gets suspended 9 or more games. Would be a waste of coming back if he can go develop in the league.

@Statmachine

Ingram has been dropping KU hints all week. Bragg has recruited him the best, he loved his visit on Late night. He was honest that he would have committed to UNC had the scandal not been there. But now that Jackson is staying they have a crowded back-court. I still think its a 3 team race between KU, UK & Duke. Duke has the playing time with Winslow top 5 potential pick now.

Between the 2 (Ingram & Brown) Ingram is the better shooter but is a strength coach away from really taking off. His handles need work too. He's a more athletic Greene.
Brown is an athletic freak who can get buckets at the basket at will, his defense will translate and has a high b-ball IQ. His jump shot needs improvement but he can make outside shots.

@justanotherfan

Ellis and Stein don't play the same position. We should have at least put effort into recruiting him. Of course it makes it look bad after the fact of not getting Tarc

http://hoopniks.com/class-of-2015-top-25-impact-junior-college-recruits/ ↗

btw this is a top 25 list of Juco kids for 2015. A lot of kids haven't picked schools but I see 4 of them headed to the Big 12. Baylor, Oklahoma, K-St, West Virginia all snagged good players.

@Crimsonorblue22

Very true, if Stein had a "attitude problem" or something other than talent that kept Self away then he took his own judgement into that decision. Stein clearly has benefited from coaching.

@Crimsonorblue22

Shouldn't it have been the same for our OAD's. We get the #2 rated player, top PF he can't even start half the year.

Oubre took a good month to solidify a starting spot. Shouldn't they just have been as good as Towns, Booker, and company..???

At some point coaching or whatever Cal does to get these kids to buy in and play as a team instead of individuals is lost in our fanbase. I understand we have a hatred or whatever for them, I share that same feeling but I'm not blind to know that this could end up being the best College Basketball team in NCAA history. Call it jealous, call it admiration, we all have at least a little bit of respect for what could happen.

It is a crap shoot but interesting that a kid in our backyard ranked in the top 50 or so would be allowed to leave the state without any recruiting effort. Isn't one of Self's best attributes "Coaching em up".

Stein was nothing special his first 2 years but something clearly changed this year. Maturity what not, Cal has "Coached him up" and made him a possible lottery pick.

Fast forward a few years and that's why Self is recruiting 7-8 players right now.

If I'm Self I'm putting that comment on the wall for next season.

You know the media for at least a few years will talk about 2011 instead of the actual game being played.

If the shot clock gets switched to 30, coach better start preparing his offense accordingly especially with 2 pressing teams in the fold now.

@truehawk93

Not even sure what your arguing in your favor but you have your KU blinders on.

ND played a great game and still lost and UK's defense made plays down the stretch to win. LSU & Ole Miss made the tournament didn't they? KU lost games to teams it shouldn't have, when's the last time KU went 38-0 possibly 40-0..

Ask KU & UCLA how good Kentucky's defense is. There is no argument against that but excuses.

Dribble drive and get it into the post, is that illegal? Against ND, they exploited the matchup with nobody to guard Towns. Wouldn't any coach take advantage of a mismatch.

KU ran the weave and it was effective for what 2 games. Yeah real awesome offense we ran as well. Bad ball had such twists and sophistication,

Comparing KU & UK NBA players isn't even close. Wiggins is already showing he could be an All-Star in time. Embiid will actually have to play basketball first. Morris twins have become very good NBA players. Chalmers doesn't start, Pierce,Collison, Gooden, Hinrich at the end of the NBA arc's. McLemore still has a ton to improve on but he made strides this year. Withey & Aldrich are backups.

UK has star power in the league Anthony Davis, John Wall, Demarcus Cousins. These guys are All-Stars.

@truehawk93

what have they been taught? Best defensive in team in what 30 years.

@HighEliteMajor

I wonder if he will stay. He barely could play 20 minutes a game in Barnes system. Shaka has never had a space eater like him. Could become even more of a non-factor there.

@truehawk93

Brown is a very aggressive player to the basket. We could use a guy 7 inches taller than Mason who can get to the basket. And Brown can play defense he's a clear upgrade to anyone we have at the 2/3

I know it was just an All-Star game but he looked like he didn't even want to be out there. Just stood around mostly. The dunk he had was nice but that's the only positive I saw. A lot of others played hard like Diallo & Brown.

no, not with comments like that. Why is he even going to college then

@Crimsonorblue22

Love the kids attitude. His perimeter shooting is a big addition to this team. Knowing our first big off the bench could be an offensive weapon, something we lacked last year is exciting.

Roster turnover has been the main issue to me in a lot of the grumblings fans are speaking about.

Since 2011, 10 kids have left the program (11 with Cliff ) early either due to transfer, NBA, health issues. Hard pressed to find many teams that have as much turnover as KU has had not counting a coaching change.

5 ended up in the NBA after their freshman year.

2012 decimated our chance for upperclassmen when Peters, White, Adams all gone by Sophomore year.

The last 2 years have depended so much on Freshman to contribute when Freshman in a Self system aren't meant to dominate in year one. He may never adapt his system so that happens. Some have tried and disappointed fans expectations. It happens there 18-19 year old kids.

If you want Self to focus only on the Top 30-100 kids you'll have to wait til next year. You might keep waiting until 2020.

@DCHawker

Don't forget the New Zealand Big Kentucky signed might reclassify to 2015, watch for him in the Nike Hoops Summit game. Labissiere may never play college as his high school is a red flag. Could be wrong on that one but I believe he was unable to play his senior year and wasn't eligible for the All-American game because of that.

I'd say the conservative estimate on UK's turnover is 4. The Harrison's will be the key to them. They will only have 4 days after the Championship if they make it to decide.

@HighEliteMajor

The same Mock that has Svi going 12th??

I was looking at him logically because of his limitations on offense at the moment. Recently off the top of my head I don't remember many bigs going high if they couldn't score. Especially one that will have just average size at his position in the NBA. Maybe your right, maybe I'm wrong about his projection of at least 2 years in school. Wishful thinking can be a nutcracker