Koenig great example, we did recruit him but I think we stopped after he was likely to stay in state. Or Self thought he'd get other higher rated players.
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
Last year I thought we had a good chance with Winslow. We got Oubre though.
2 years ago Randle obvious choice and Demetrius Jackson who ended up at ND.
3 years ago Zeus & Marcus Smart although I'm glad we missed on Smart after all his flopping antics and bricklaying.
4 years ago Bradley Beal
Well 1988 we didn't have this OAD and 2008 Cole Aldrich was ranked #13 but he was stuck behind Kaun, Jackson, Arthur. 2012, we signed McLemore but he had to sit the year. So the answer in No we haven't won a National Championships as a result.
I'd be shocked honestly if Diallo was a OAD. In 5-6 games I've watched of his this year he showed a lot of the things that made him MVP last night. But he's limited in the post as far as throwing the ball to him and expecting him to score. He gets a lot of points with hustle and effort offensive rebounding, put backs, drop off's from penetration. Last night was an All-Star game with min. defensive effort but what stood out is that Diallo never stops giving effort. I think the NBA is intrigued by his talent but unless he learns how to score he's an average sized 4 in the league with limited offensive. I don't remember many of those being drafted after 1 year.
Cheick is a rim protector. You don't always have to be 7 ft tall to be a good shot-blocker and Diallo certainly has the instincts for blocking shots. He's only 220lbs so obviously he may have to bulk up some but the effort that he gives is something you don't want to limit by laboring him with a bunch of weight. His effort alone will be something that gets him minutes, coaching is not going to have to ask him to play hard because that's all he knows.
I'll be happy. Korea would be fun for their development
We will know sure enough in the next 8 days.
So Cheick wins MVP at the McDonald's game. Truly didn't expect him to have the type of the game he did but he sure is talented. How many people will believe we "need" him now.. There's a reason Self has been on him for so long.
Hopes to commit around the Jordan game, come on down Diallo.
I meant by keeping 2 unfilled scholarships this past year. We should at least gotten one more guy but we couldn't have predicted conner would chicken out.
we have 2 to give, 3 if cliff leaves. I'm sure we can all do the math if more were to leave.
Plenty of opportunity for those top rated players nobody here wants. They'll ruin everything if they win a championship!
i think the number is 13 for scholarships. Anyway we robbed ourselves of 2 possible players who could have been sophomore's or if we had gone the transfer route maybe another upperclassmen. This upcoming year we better not save any because we will have plenty of open spots regardless of any guys going pro.
But we are fully in the mix for all those guys you just mentioned. Zimmerman & Ingram as well. Whether you like it or not, the pool of players is pretty thin right now. Transfers are not getting waivers, unless your a graduate with 1 year left. We can dislike it all we want but if we land 2 of these 5-7 players left we are in great shape with what's returning.
Izoo still gets highly ranked players. He's got Davis in the McDonald's game tonight. He also takes talent just like Self does and makes them better.
Self has a top 5 program. It's elite, he has to attract elite talent to come here and enhance the brand because there isn't 10 Perry Ellis's to get in the state every year. Sometimes the Elite of the elite talent hasn't worked out, and other times it has. Self has a demanding system, he demands a lot just like Izzo. Izzo has been lucky that his star players tend to stay in college longer although last year Gary Harris left after 2. It happens to all the big programs, its coaches responsibility to fix it
We are after 5 potential OAD's.
2 open spots, likely 3 to 4 before its all said and done. We aren't recruiting 3* star players to take these spots. OAD's are coming.
Best of Luck to him. Should be a lotto Pick hopefully he'll become a solid NBA player....
You make some great points, I surely don't knock anything your saying because in reality we are all trying to be an extension of Self right now. We are all wondering how to best fit the pieces we have with any future new players, as well as speculating who will improve
I guess analytically we are trying to predict WARP. Wins above replacement with this whole ordeal with Oubre/Svi/Greene. If Oubre returns miraculously then the growth of Svi & Brannen is likely stunted. If Oubre leaves they effectively have the chance to prove themselves. That's where my opinion strays. I just get this uneasy feeling that not signing another player that can help day 1 could ultimately hurt us. I feel like we would be lacking a playmaker. Now I have no certainty that any of the 3 (Brown, Newman, Ingram) are instant playmakers but they certainly look to have that mentality to do so. Again I'm just speculating as we all are at this point.
I think Self doesn't trust any of his players beyond Mason & Ellis. Maybe Selden because he seems to have the longest leash in Self history but the fact that he's recruiting his position says something.
Great discussion though and one to monitor in the weeks as the domino's fall
Don't count out St. John's yet.. his lead recruiter at Iowa St left to join Mullin's staff.
Do I think that has substantial meaning this late in the game, probably not because St. John's has lost their entire team, maybe more if Jordan leaves. No PG to play with which was another factor for him, but in terms of PT they have it all and it's in his backyard.
If PT is the biggest deciding factor then KU is probably out even though I think he likes KU the most. There's no way Self has told him you'll get your 25-30 minutes. Self tells everyone they work for what they get..
Iowa St has only McKay & Niang so PT there is very possible. But his lead recruiter no longer is there so how much will that sway his decision.
The Kentucky roster turnover should be decided by then. If UK loses Stein, Lyles & Towns then I'm sure Calipari gets involved at the midnight hour again for him. That's why he's waiting til around the Jordan game.
I have a question for everyone..
Do you guys believe Greene & Svi will improve this summer to the point where we win more games because of them?
Do you honestly believe getting a Brown, Newman, or Ingram wouldn't improve the team, all 3 are offensively gifted players. Whether they are OAD's is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. Would we win more games in 2015-2016 with one of those 3 as opposed to Greene and Svi who we are begging to develop at a rate we're not certain can happen.
I see the disdain for getting the Top 10 kids, it seems to be growing by the day.
Assuming we lose Oubre, how do you replace his Athleticism, defense, 3pt shooting with nothing?
How do we get better from subtraction.
I think it will work itself out. Both seem to be on a late April/May commit date. We've been on Diallo forever, he's not a true 5 but he's not a OAD either. So his upside is much greater than the 1 year transfer.
I'm intrigued that Self went after him so quickly, as I've said you can't teach his size and I imagine he's imagined him and Lucas being a great duo at the 5. I doubt we can land both, unless Traylor or Mickelson leave before hand. I'd love to see Traylor's senior speech on Senior day but if we can upgrade them both then we have to do it.
I'm also assuming that Self thinks just like every other coach, you don't stop recruiting what's out there until they sign those papers. If Diallo gets swayed by say Iowa St's assistant going to St Johns which so happens to be his lead recruiter and he stays close to home then Self lost 2 years worth of recruiting. Meanwhile a taller more experienced 5 becomes available and he only had to spend minimal effort to get involved any maybe get him to come to KU. So that's how I'm seeing it, that either one of them is insurance for one going somewhere else.
Agreed, while we didn't win the 2012 title we generally regard the players from that year with high regard because of the effort they displayed to get there. T-Rob= legend,
Taylor= Senior stud who definitely had more than his share of doghouse stints. Many fans wrote him off before he even made it to Senior year.
Now since that run we had 2013- Elijah blasted from here to the moon for how he performed late against Michigan.
2014- Wiggins blasted for his 4pt effort against Stanford
2015- let's just say the entire team layed an egg. Now we are calling out our coach!!
F4 runs, championship runs completely change the perception of a year, of the coach, and the players involved.
A few news to report so far. Been quiet so after a frenzy Monday.
Barnes official to Tenn.
Word is Shaka Smart hasn't officially had talks with Texas yet.
Transfer U Midwest (Iowa St) lost their assistant that was responsible for getting the transfers to St. Johns staff. Could impact Iowa St as they look for more players. I see they have reached out to Trey Lewis from Green Bay transfer.
Goodman and co reporting over 200 transfers already!
I'm sure the afternoon will heat up..
Can't wait to see what awaits today's rollercoaster ride in College Basketball. Will any of the news be KU related?
Bragg threw down a nasty dunk last night at the All American challenge.
Wiggins had the dunk of the year over Gobert of Utah. Wish I had video handy.
We saw how ineffective it was for Cliff.
I believe your optimism on Graham is warranted, we saw enough good things to project what he can do for us in the future. Would Newman hurt that progress maybe, probably. He'd probably be stuck playing the 16-20 minutes again. Newman would score and he would be gone in a year. Self has been on him for a long time but the longer he doesn't visit KU the more it becomes apparent he won't leave the south. Howland is after him, Briscoe & Blakeney are recruiting them to UK & LSU. We are probably on the outside
great question. with the team we (may) have losing the conference would seem like a letdown of the century to KU fans. Losing in the S16, well that would beat the last 2 years!
I think for some of us to stop jumping off the ledge, A F4 appearance would ease our concerns of the coaching, and subsequent constant changing basketball climate that we feel Self maybe struggling to adjust to. I don't think I've ever seen so many of us question our leader to the extent we are right now. A F4 would validate a lot of things so I think right now I'm picking #2. I can live without winning the conference.
Who likes to praise other teams coaching that got them to the F4 if its not our own. It's not the same and never gets easier by the year.
Svi looks like has that touch that Greene has, fearless shooter with range but if I'm him, I'm putting up shots everyday all day improving. Even as a Soph, he's the equivalent of a Freshman to the rest of the world. It's crazy he started games last year basically off the plane from Ukraine. What does suck is that he can't play in Korea which would benefit him the most. You at least hope he progresses to the point where he can get 15 minutes a game every game. That's the only way we will know if he's got the potential everyone says he does.
Yes he went to a small school and he was like the greatest thing since sliced bread there. Can't blame him for doing what he wanted, but it wasn't the right choice after the fact. Maybe he would have done better with KU, but he still would have bolted anyway. College was never his end game and now he's just another Texas player that can hit the league and make a name for himself.
I'd be happy with Ford being gone, but not to be replaced by Marshall. No win situation it seems
The names I brought up in another thread to replace would be Ron Hunter, now that his son went pro. And Brad Underwood from SF Austin who's made the tourney the last 2 years. Either they go for a mid-major on the rise or try and pluck a bigger fish from another school. Who knows its contingent on what he does.
I can't really see him taking that Alabama job, its nothing special in the SEC that is entirely a football school. He could be doing this to sweeten his deal with Wichita, more leverage to negotiate now that he's beaten KU. But if they are offering up some serious G's then maybe money will talk.
he'd lose a year of eligibility plus the year he sat out for transferring within conference right? But that's old news he's gone to the league.
Being from Texas he felt pressure to stay home and make a name for himself in the home state. Well when he was struggling the critics pilled on and I'm sure it bothered him that he wasn't used the way he might have felt. He chose to join a front-court with 4 guys already having established PT instead of going to the school that had a glaring need for him and recruited him from the beginning.
he reminds me of a Quincy Miller, or Isiah Austin type player. Will have to put on significant bulk to hang with C's in the league. But he has shooting touch and can block shots so that will help him on D.
What about Svi??
Well are you happy with Mari, Mickelson, Lucas?
I think because Lucas has 2 years left and is a big enough body to keep developing we should definitely keep him in the rotation.
We know Mari is too short to play the 4, he's not gifted enough to play the 3. He didn't have a good year and if I'm Self you have to find another option or 2.
Mickelson with his limited time did nothing but block shots and foul. It looked like he just didn't have the feel for the game we needed out there.
It might seem crowded but Diallo or Thorne is an upgrade and they should feel like they could take minutes if they wanted.
Marshall meeting with alabama..oh boyy
They both felt threatened their playing time would be taken by Simmons.
And its not over.. probably not even close
Barnes to UT wow never thought he'd move that quickly
Shaka in cohoots with Texas. We could be facing 2 teams that play havoc D. why why why
Mullin new coach at St. Johns. Hopefully its too late to impact Diallo's decision
Cronin of Cincinati can return to coaching, nice to hear that.
Turner goes pro for UT, no surprise
Harrell & Rozier gone from Louisville.
The tandem from LSU gone (Martin & Mickey)
Gill transfers as well when he could start next year at Louisville?
Self meeting with Thorne Jr's parents.. Slip him a $20 Bill but don't tell anyone, j/k.
Slo-Mo Niang returns. booo go play in Europe instead of averaging 25 against KU. You know another year of that is on its way.
Numerous transfers...
Does it get anymore crazy???
We don't know if Thorne Jr. would be an upgrade at the 5 but you can't teach 6"11 270. That instantly makes him the biggest player in the Big 12 next year. He's already put up decent to good numbers as a Jr. so if your switching between him and Lucas at your 5 IMO would be a good thing to have.
Think of it, Lucas gets 2 early fouls playing Rico Gathers, in comes a bigger battled veteran at equal to bigger size. Check, check for me.
You make some valid points. After Next year we will be thin if we don't plan accordingly. That's why I've been lobbying that we sign as many kids as we have scholarships available this year.
Right now I don't see anyway that Bragg will play enough or be dominate enough to leave after a year. Just has 2-3 yr talent written all over him and he could end up being a better Markieff Morris by Jr. season. Lucas if he follows his rate of development could be a key member Sr. year. We will know after next year what we might be looking at with him.
Right now Self has been after Horne Jr. (1yr remaining), Zimmerman & Maker (projected OAD's) & Diallo ( projected 2-3 yr player). Of that group for the future Diallo would be the best long term prospect.
Transfers are just now starting to pop up and the next month should really give us an idea who might be available. I'd say Self should definitely be after a transfer who can sit out and play in 2016-2017. Just as it would be wise to find an under the radar guard or transfer as well who can basically red-shirt. Assuming 2 guys leave (Cliff & Kelly) we have 3 spots to give. The 2016 class is very top heavy, is very good but as far as PF/C its not nearly as strong as this years class.
I'm certianly hoping that what Self was referring to was the players we all think should return. But we've been in the dark plenty of years about the status of players. And for the first time Self seems to be playing it pretty bluntly about people leaving. Maybe it's the years of build up that his numb to the roster attrition but man it's hard to see the true meaning of what he was saying and not speculate.
Love Mari to death, love his story and his effort over the years but if he's part of our rotation next year on a 15-20 minute basis see yaaaa March again.
I believe Thorne would impact Diallo. If Cheick came here would have to try and play the 5 with Ellis/Bragg already here.
At this point I'm hoping we at least get a visit from Thorne. Illinois already got 1 scheduled..
Sounds like a football teams injury report. Notice Trice & Valentine absent from the injury reports. Their fools gold 3's all year made almost as many as we made as a team. Izzo blended in 3 point gunning (almost 200 more attempts) than KU on the year with enough inside play, plus toughness.
Having Ellis on 1 1/2 legs did effect things. We might not think Cliff was a big deal but it was too not having him. He messed the whole depth up. Lucas had to play 30 minutes a game with 3 injuries. No excuses but the injury bug has hit us at the worst of times now twice.
I agree I don't think our best game with this years squad would have come close against them. They played the perfect game to beat Kentucky and still lost, how crazy is that crap. Their guard play would have negated our advantage which they almost pulled off on Kentucky with an entire team bigger than them.
I thought the toughness was brought back to KU after the Boot camp and marine experience. And that seemed to work for a part of the season. We have close gritty wins. But something changed, we lost the identity of the team, got banged up and tired out from the grind and bailed out because of it.
Harris was last year. A 5-star player that personified Izzo's traits. Maybe Bragg will become the 2 or 3AD type of Self player that personifies him.
your right but we got matched up against our step brother that wanted to prove he was better. It's like MJ's kids playing him 1 on 1 and their like just one time let me beat Mike and you know what it happened.
Injury to Ellis certainly didn't help. You go from what 20pts to 11 post injury is hard to compensate for.
Young team, again what top 10 youngest team again in D1. That should change if the pieces stick.
We underachieved we all know it, we see what the teams that survived have done to make it this far. Self definitely has to take this year and improve everything
Dawson was an All-American but at 6"6 PF didn't ever have a position in the NBA without a jump-shot so he made it to his Sr season with injuries.
Wonder how much Harris made this team better having to sit and play on the scout team. We've all seen that gunner glad he left from West Virginia.
Trice had to wait his turn behind Appling & Harris who was a 2AD. His improvement could not be projected like he is playing now. He taught enough for Nairn to take over next year minus the jump-shot.
Valentine & Costello top 100 kids. Just have continued to get better and better.
Forbes was a nice waiver transfer who can shoot.
He got 5 star PF Davis for next year and Sharpshooting Mcquaid. Izzo gets his fair share of talent.
He could be even better next year.
Just a couple years back though we had all the March Success. A bitter Sweet 16 loss, and 2 even bitter 2nd round losses really make us forget how good we had it. UK was in the NIT 2 years ago, last year needed a miracle turnaround to get where they got.
The pressure will be on next year to win in March that's for sure but we are certainly due for some luck to come our way real soon.
Another point on Devonte is he's the equivalent of a Red-Shirt Sophomore heading into this year. Because of his issues with Appalachian he went to prep school. I believe that year besides giving him the exposure that landed him to us was the fact that he came in already physically and mentally tougher than kids straight out of school. Too bad he got hurt at the wrong time because that was when he was playing high level ball. Then it took him all the way to the end of the season to get it back. Korea will really help him, and it will be great to have him and Frank interchangeable at PG.
Devonte is the real deal. Pull up jumper and defense were great at times. Good thing for Devonte is he can develop with a great player next to him in Frank. The more I think about it, heck just put them both out there and play 2 PG's.
Not sure the answer is easy on the focus of on the regular season. I believe that in order to have a good team for March you have to focus on the games you play before then for preparation. But the teams left have either continued their season long success (UK, Duke, Wisconsin) or become a talented team at the right time (Michigan St.). 3 of the 4 had great regular seasons and one improved at the right time.
Michigan St. can be this years UConn. And when you have the coach who's a master at winning in March and a Sr. Point Guard who's playing his best you have the recipe for making it this far. We beat Michigan St in November but they are not the same team we beat back then. You could say KU was a better team around that time period then the one that limped into the tourney.
As a side note to the scheduling, we had a handful of easy games this year. We had a whole bunch of games that we made harder than we needed to and that alludes to all the issues of consistent play we had during the year. I'm certain this team could have won 30 games easily but we didn't make the game easy on ourselves and in turn it became an emotional/physical grind unable to fully develop the whole team for success. You hope this team will learn from this year and try again.
Wigs avg'd 17 a game, year before B-Mac was at 15.9. We can give Newman the keys to score 18 a game. He's a more gifted scorer than both of them. I get it, hard to put stock in a Freshman after the feeling of our OAD's underachieving in Self's system but this kid is a dynamic scorer. The only reason he's not #1 in his class is because he's a 6"3 SG that's going to have to learn to play PG in the league. He was #1 until Ben Simmons blew up.
I'm certainly not saying that we need to drop Selden for him, I feel emotionally invested in seeing Wayne become the player we all see glimpses of. But if Self's comments are directed at him, and he leaves, I'm leaving on a plane to Mississippi with a come to KU sign for Newman.
Glad Self is finally realizing the brutal schedule we've played has done us no favors. 19 losses last 2. You know the Champions Classic is always going to be there, the Big12/SEC Challenge, the annual tournament this year MAUI, so why not schedule more home games against fair to middling competition. The Big 12's strength isn't getting any easier this year and with only 10 teams really makes it a grind when you have to play each team on the road. But doesn't sound like this year will be the year it gets any easier with Michigan St. @ San Diego St. a place that has become near impossible to win in, rumored UK coming to Allen Fieldhouse, annual Sprint Center game against good competition.
You might be right that there would be an adjustment period but Newman strikes me as one of those can't miss talents. The talents that Okafor, Towns, Winslow, Towns, Jones turned out to be. I mean if you have seen Newman play you know he's got unlimited range on his jumper and makes more contested hard to make shots than anyone in the class. Scored over 3,000 points in HS, these guys don't come around very often. I think it's a no brainer that he'd be an instant upgrade to Selden offensively. Selden spent half the season not scoring this year as well. Would that change as a Jr? we just don't know the answer to that.
I think into the future and feel like if he ends up at Kentucky or LSU and puts up 18 a game that half of us fans next year will be like damn wish Self got Newman..
Yes waivers were granted for your coach leaving before. That was 2014-2015 rules.
Rules as of last week have changed to no waivers to any transfers.
Only players allowed supposed "free agency" are graduate transfers.
So Hunter Mickelson could go somewhere else if he graduated from KU this May. If Self left and say Frank Mason transferred because his coach left, he will sit a full year.
Those comments didn't sit well with me either. But when Self makes comments like that we should assume that something is going to happen that us Fans won't understand.
Notice he didn't mention Kelly. My other thought was that he didn't mention him because that's the guy that's going to go pro and deservingly so he's a lotto pick. So are his comments directly talking about maybe Selden leaving or was it towards Kelly...
Not really sure we will know the answer until it happens. The more time passes without any word from Selden will only drag on the suspense that he is leaving. I remember him last year saying he was coming back pretty quickly after the season ended. Maybe that had to do with him being hurt and knowing he couldn't perform for scouts to keep his draft grade high enough.
I will throw this in, Selden leaving looks better for Newman or Brown coming to KU. You could potentially trade 9pts a game for 18 with Newman. That kid can flat out score the ball even if its for one year. Brown has the potential to do the same. Would you trade a Jr for a Freshman if that Freshman was a scoring phenom?