🏀 KuBuckets Archive

So, they just listed Jamari at 6'8" in showing the starting line-ups - haha!

@drgnslayr Thanks for sharing - enjoyed that - although it did bring up painful memories. We have high expectations and when those expectations aren't met, it's hard; we're crushed. But those high, perhaps unrealistic, expectations are a result of a tradition of extraordinary achievement over decades. We're spoiled and happily so - the game was invented here - the three winningest programs of all-time have courts named after KU coaches - more conference titles than anyone and 10 straight - longest NCAA streak and so on.

NIT is unacceptable and anything short of the Final Four (at least in most years) is a disappoint. That's just the way it is. Almost every other program in the country would give up their first borns just to have the same opportunity to be disappointed. But, that also doesn't mean that some disappointments don't hurt more than others. We got beat by a better team in 2012 although we gave it a good fight. We just got beat by UCLA, Georgia Tech and Michigan State - hats off to the other guys. But, the Bradley's, Bucknell's, Stanford's, VCU's, Northern Iowa's - those hurt.

The NCAA tourney is a crapshoot, but we have to acknowledge that we've underachieved over the past two decades - at least relative to our seeds and our heightened expectations. That is a product of being spoiled by conference championships and numerous 1 and 2 seeds. Not sure I would have it any other way. Sure, would one trade some of that regular season success for another national title or two - absolutely, yes. But all of it, no.

But, ultimately we are measured by national championships. Why? Because we are one of the all-time great programs, recognized by everyone as such. With all the legacy and tradition and success, what is the only thing holding us back from being the consensus top program - a couple more national titles.

That is what you call a high class problem. RCJH!

@jaybate-1.0 I stand corrected/educated about the Self philosophy re using the baseline in defense. Even more begs the question what BG was doing that game, because he certainly wasn't forcing Ziegler to the center. Minor point in the grand scheme.

I agree that Self is "involved in a migration to the OADs, if he can get them." How many in the stack are necessary to succeed while moving away from his core and peripheral philosophies? Is he willing to be the kind of guy that it will take to get those numbers (and prima donnas)? Who is our Drake??? Does the Jayhawk nation really want that???? What happens if you fall short on the targets????? Doesn't that mean you end up with the 3-stars who will be counted on in critical roles too early?????? He/we won a championship without a roster full of McDs and OADs? Didn't he/we win 30 games a year. Sure we lost in a hard fought game in the championship to a loaded UK team. But, we got there. I would also note that 3 of the last 4 champions had very little in the way of OADs (even TADs) and NBA-caliber talent. They were veteran, really tough defensive teams, with great guard play.

@jaybate-1.0 Where do you find the time? And, energy? Insightful and fascinating, as always (even if I don't necessarily agree with the diagnosis or prescription; rare in any event). A few observations, essentially reiterating some numbers I've provided in other posts/threads.

In one, I highlighted RBs and TOs, but not a game average, but per minute basis - both to provide a more accurate assessment of contribution, or lack thereof, and because they are or should be more controllable and persistent than things like shooting percentages. Among other things, what it does reveal, as you have noted, are issues with Selden - his performance has fallen from last year and it certainly way below expectations coming into the year (at least mine). Selden is essentially tied with Graham for the lowest rebounding rate on the team at .10 per minute - a third of that for Alexander and Lucas and less than half of that for Ellis and Oubre, and behind Traylor, Greene and Mason. What is equally concerning is how low Traylor's is for a post player. Selden also has the third worst turnover rate, behind Lucas and Traylor. So, Selden and Traylor are, charitably, not helping in two keys areas.

I've also looked at team defensive numbers, which is my particular bugaboo. Until last year, the lowest national defensive efficiency rating for a Self coached Jayhawk team was 11th - five years in the top five and twice first. Last year - 31st. This year - 30th. Not bad - just a far cry from years past. Like many at KUBuckets, I dvr at lot of the games and go back and slo-mo plays - not healthy to do this year. You are correct that perimeters players on our opponents are all too often getting past our guards or wings and into the paint or all the way to the rim. But, when I look at many of those plays, what concerns me much more than the initial blow by is the complete absence of help defense. Very evident in the TCU game when Greene (who has improved somewhat) was covering Ziegler. The book on him to slough the outside shot, because all he wants to do is attack the rim - whether the scouting report wasn't very good or the execution was poor, who knows. The point is that while Greene was beat on a handful of occasions, almost all were to the baseline - exactly where you want to push someone - assuming you have sound team defensive principles. Someone should rotate and the driver will have no one where to go - wasn't happening. I'm on the east coast and have watched several UVA games. Makes for ugly games, but a joy to behold from a team defense standpoint. And, without any McDs. While we have some solid on the ball defenders and do a decent job limiting open 3s and hedging ball screens, no one on the team does a very good job of rotating, holding ground, and boxing out. Traylor stands out, and not in a good way.

Other big picture numbers - 6 or 7 of the previous years, before last year, we won 30+ games. Didn't come close last year and we would probably need a Final Four run to get there this year. As you've described it, what is the common thread? What is the cause for the slippage (acknowledging that we are spoiled and have very high, perhaps unrealistic, expectations? Lesser talent? Less heart? Just a young team??? Certainly true last year and this year. My own view is that Self decided after the UK championship loss that he was out-talented and has gone for broke on OADs/TADs - and that has come at a cost not commensurate with the potential reward - that it is too challenging for newbies to get comfortable with both the Hi-Lo and defensive requirements. That it only works consistently well with veteran teams augmented by a one or two talented frosh that you don't really have to rely upon.

Perhaps the light will come on and the guys quickly recover and make a run through the rest of the regular season and into the second weekend of the tournament. I'm not convinced that we have the right combination of players to enable that, but I certainly hope I'm dead wrong!

@wissoxfan83 Scoring margin this year, just over 7 ppg, is the narrowest of the Self era. Next closest was his first year - a little over 8 ppg. Last year, at 9 ppg, was third lowest - all substantially lower, by half or more, than most other years. Indeed, we were often near the top in scoring margin nationally. 32 and 25 point beatdowns obviously bring down the average - but, to your point, we haven't really blown anyone out this year - even at home. Too many close games. The end of the bench probably has less PT this year than in any other year.

@KU-Flyer I'm an old gray hair, as well - and more so after these past few games.

@jaybate-1.0 You may very well be right with regard to the lack of stops at the end of this game. I was primarily focused on more structural defensive shortcomings of this year's Jayhawks - and arguably last year's, as well. I guess my main point is that our offensive shortcomings are in some respects are less critical than our defensive shortcomings. The true hallmark of Self ball is less the Hi-Lo than making it very difficult for the other team to score. That's where we've lost our way, and I'm at a loss as to how we find our way back. Although UK may be an exception because of extraordinary size, but great team defense takes time to learn and implement - and that's where we're lacking - TEAM defense.

@jaybate-1.0 Yes, we didn't shoot well (wouldn't go so far as horribly, as we've had much worse shooting games), the bench didn't perform, and the Tri-5 delivered a big fat zero buckets, but I would submit that the reason we lost was because of another failure on the defensive end.

We gave up 70 points (39 in the 2nd half on 55% shooting) to a team that had not broken 60! in 7 of its past 8 games - and failed to reach half a century twice. We could not get stops down the stretch - but that has been an issue throughout the year.

As noted in various posts in various threads, HCBS is first and foremost a defensive coach. Until last year, over the previous 8 years, KU's worst defensive efficiency rating was 11th (1,1,3,3,5,9,11). Last year we were 31st (even with a rim protector and a defensive stopper). This year we are 30th in DER.

We can commiserate all we want to about shortcomings on the offensive end, but it strikes me that the principal problem with the youth movement and OAD/TADs is on the defensive end. HCBS used to have the luxury in the pre-OAD recruiting days to force guys to ride the bench unless they committed on the defensive end.

Defense gets (at best) short shrift in HS and AAU. Basic principles of boxing out, keeping a low center for gravity, help defense, clogging the passing lanes, et cetera aren't taught. In past years, Self and staff taught defense - and with teams with upperclassmen learned to play it. And, it enabled many of those ugly wins the coach likes, even when the shots aren't falling. Now, when the shots aren't falling, the wins don't come as easily and the losses more frequently.

Jayhawks not name Perry Ellis 12 of 38 from the field. Give up 39 points in the second half to a team that struggles to score. Lost 8 of their last 10 games. Oh well...

1 FG in 9 minutes. How is that possible????

Missing 9 of last 10 shots doesn't help either

9 more RBs - more FTs on the road, and we're still behind. If you can't get stops you can't win.

Just flashed that we've given up 55% FG so far this half.

@Hawk8086 3rd time tonight for him

@KUSTEVE Who?

In the bonus with 14 minutes to go - need to attack the rim and win the game at the FT line

We can't handle prosperity - get a lead and immediately give it back - seems to be the refrain every game

Well,we've all wanted Perry to slam it on the break :)

@KUSTEVE Yeah, but how. Has been an issue all year.

We'll see what the boys are made of in the 2nd half - B12 championship string may very well ride on what happens, esp. given how well ISU is playing.

Jayhawks not named Perry Ellis 6 of 23 from the field - most of those within 3ft of the hoop.

Interior defense is porous

@betterfireE Agree - he's growing up. Actually like both him and Frank in the game at the same time - really opens up the floor.

Feels like an 80 pt game, not 60.

@Hawk8086 If we could hit even 50% of 2 ft shots, we'd be 24-3 anyway!

Selden bailed out - don't know where he was going with that.

@cragarhawk will hold to til the end of the game

WTF - stepped away for one minute and 6 pt lead just disappeared.

This is the group that can create turnovers and get transition buckets. Haven't seen much of it this year - but nice to see now...

Not much scoring but very fast pace

Nice put back by Selden - rare OR and showed some hop

Maybe Perry will get 50

KO is active on the boards - just needs to get a shot to fall

@brooksmd Yes, but did you note that Selden just stood there after Foster started the other way.

@Kip_McSmithers Agree - why ask for the buyout unless you (your agent) have a pretty good idea that there is a better situation. He wasn't likely to get much PT in Denver, where they have a very deep bench, but apparently, they weren't prepared to just waive him and eat the entire amount. And, yes, I would assume the 10-day contract is for the league minimum; if so, he's leaving money on the table. You do that if you think you can land a better spot to showcase your talents heading into free agency. Just doesn't seem like the Nets are the best fit - esp. given one report that they weren't interested in him, but changed their minds over the weekend.

@JayHawkFanToo I believe you are correct that you need a minimum number of players under contract as per the CBA, but an injury wouldn't change that - it could just free up a roster spot temporarily or create a short term need, but I don't think a team would have to add a body. But in the case of a team like the Heat, there is a real need for a PF with Bosh out the rest of the year.

@Statmachine Perhaps so, although it's not much of a commitment on the Nets part and you would think TRob would want something for the rest of the year - a situation where he could get meaningful PT and opportunity to position for a new contract in free agency. Don't know if he wasn't able to get anything more than a 10-day. If his agent's were pushing the buyout from Denver, one would hope that they had this fairly well scoped out, but who knows. Just seems difficult to imagine him getting that much PT in the next 10 days.

TRob has reportedly inked a contract with the mighty Nets (has to clear waivers first). Seems like a very odd choice given the teams that had expressed interest in him. Even as bad as they are, it's not clear that he is likely to get that much more playing time than he did in Portland with Brook Lopez and Mason Plumlee at the 5 and newly acquired (for KG) Thaddeus Young at the 4 (backed up by Cory Jefferson from Baylor). Thought Miami was the best opportunity with Bosh out for the rest of the season, or hooking up with the Twins in Phoenix.

Hope it works out for him...

Have a great evening all

Teams get into the lane with impunity against us - can't stop the penetration, and no help, let alone rim protection.

@wissoxfan83 You are right. They may not have the greatest talent, but they fight and they're well coached.

Just inexplicable - p-g away a 16 pt lead to a 3 con win team at home. What is it with these guys. Give old guys like me coronaries...

More animation out of Perry than I can recall over the past two years - great to see!!!!! Good for him.

Landon is actually our most fundamentally sound big, but he is so friggin' soft going up with the ball. Hudy needs to work on some hand strength exercises with him.

just need 2 or 3 effing stops and we can put this away.

In the double bonus - is that a good thing if anyone other than BG is at the line???

Like I said, we've seen this movie before - seem constitutionally incapable of putting a foot on their throats (metaphorically of course) and keeping it there.

So, we've been here before - building up a bit of lead. Can we put them away - finish strong. I would like to see a 20+pt win at home for a change. Get a chance to get some other guys like Svi some minutes.

Traylor body language has been really bad all game

@bskeet What is there to question??? ;)

@Crimsonorblue22 Agree that he has really stepped up the intensity - full props for that.