🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@JayHawkFanToo I would much rather be out of the spotlight and be motivated than to be in the position that KU was in '10 and '11 where they were expected to get to the final four.

@drgnslayr I have always thought that. Its just frustrating when they dont play hungry like they did against Texas.

Maybe they will use current circumstances as motivation, especially since folks in the media are starting to doubt if they can make a deep run.

They really should play for Joel. The farther they advance in the tournament, the better the chance becomes that he can return, just like Okafor. After reading Self's comments today, I feel more confident that he could return in late March.

@Wishawk Especially since the first two rounds will be in St. Louis which is not very far for KU fans to travel.

What would make me feel better going into the tournament is if they played their butts off against OSU and beat 'em.

@truehawk93 That is actually a pretty good idea.

I think that Perry could benefit from losing his starting spot.

He still needs to keep floating around the perimeter like he did at the end of last year to get open jump shots. It would really benefit him against long and athletic players. That would really open up the lane for the big guys and Wiggins to drive.

@JRyman Pretty good ideas.

Lets hope that Self mixes some things up to slow down whoever theyre playing

Personally, its always best to have some tricks up your sleeve and save them until the tournament.

@Virgil_Caine Its all about a commitment to play defense. When they have committed, they play good defense. When they don't, it doesn't look good at all.

@JayHawkFanToo I agree. I was just being conservative. :)

I like it!

Its all about attitude. The team has to decide that they are not going to lose and they are going to be tougher than whoever they play.

I think the game tomorrow (most likely with OSU) will tell a lot about what this team is going to do in the tournament.

Are they going to fold like a lawn chair, or are they going to stand resolute?

@JayHawkFanToo Exactly right!

Most are acting like this team doesn't have any talent or ability to make a deep run without Embiid.

The whole team needs to not be so complacent and play with more intensity.

Some argue that there is no rim protector. That is true, but how do other teams that do not have a rim protector make it to the final four? They do it because they play very good on ball defense and they help other defenders.

@drgnslayr Yeah, its pretty silly to think that.

In my opinion, if they win tomorrow, presumably against Okie Lite, then they will most likely get a 2 seed. If they lose, probably a 3 or 4.

@dylans While I want Embiid to come back and hope that he recovers soon, I doubt that he plays in the tournament.

The good news is, this team has the talent and the coach to get to Arlington without him.

@wissoxfan83 I'm glad you asked.

Firstly, despite popular belief, you can go to the final four and even win a championship without a player like Joel or Jeff.

I will give you some examples from the past few years.

Here are a list of teams that made the final four that did not have a premier shot blocker but compensated by playing great on ball defense:
Villanova and North Carolina in 2009, Michigan State, Butler, Duke, and West Virginia in 2010, Butler, Connecticut, and VCU in 2011, Ohio State in 2012, and Wichita State in 2013.

As you can see, a team does not necessarily need a great shot blocker to get to the final four.

You also bring up how teams shoot a higher percentage with him off the floor. All you have to do is ask yourself this: Does the eye test say that they are giving 100% intensity on the defensive end? The answer is no.

To bring the necessary defensive intensity, they are going to have to realize that they no longer have the luxury of Joel guarding the rim.

They must, as Bill Self said, rally together in light of current circumstances.

Is there any denying that they don't possess the required talent to get to Arlington?

@HawkInMizery This has been exactly what I have been talking about.

They need motivation. They need someone telling them that they cant do it.

"While they were saying among themselves it can not be done, it was done." - Helen Keller

BTW, I don't want to hear another word about Myles Turner till the season is over. We have capable players now, so accept what you have.

@drgnslayr Keep the doubters comin'!

@HawkInMizery It was nice to have players like Collins and Tyshawn that were so competitive and had a chip on their shoulder.

Like slayr said on another thread, this team has three other McDonalds All Americans including the next Lebron James who can score 40 in any game he wants, and everyone is giving up.

I am by no means saying that they will go on this magical run. Not at all. I just think its foolish to act the way they are.

@drgnslayr Thanks for explaining it.

One of the first things I thought of when I heard the news was about Louisville last year with Ware.

Embiid provided so much rim protection that the guards, and most everyone else, didn't really bother to try to stop their man because he was back.

This is an opportunity to play with a chip and to play with pride. Lets hope they use it as such.

@HawkInMizery Amen, brother!!!

@drgnslayr Well said slayr.

They need to learn something from Wichita State and "play angry".

Despite what others think, Tarik, Jamari, Perry, and Landon are capable of filling the void left by Embiid. They just have to keep their man in front of them and put their best effort into it.

Now that Joel can not play, everyone is going to have to step up their defensive intensity. They can do it. We've seen them do it. They have to realize that the longer they play and advance in the tournament, the odds that Embiid returns get higher.

There can not be any moments where they lose their man, have any brain farts, or are not sliding with their man. They have to guard like their lives depend on it, or they will not make it past the sweet sixteen.

They have to play aggressive defense like they did against Texas. Simple as that.

@globaljaybird Unless they have Black take the bigger guy and Embiid take the smaller guy. The thing about it the smaller guy would be quicker than him, so it would probably not be a good plan.

@Virgil_Caine It's disappointing to see so many over on KU Sports.com just giving up on them. Like I said earlier, this team is good enough and talented enough to get to the final four without Embiid. The problem is that they lack the consistent intensity level. If they can somehow get that solved, they have as good of a chance as anyone to get there.

@nuleafjhawk That is what I have been trying to figure out the past 6 years. Why are they not motivated or do not bring the effort every game?

The good thing is Coach Self said that he could most likely play the second weekend of the tournament. The rest of the team would just have to play their hearts out for just two games to get him back.

Yes, I know, they looked pretty bad against West Virginia.

But what if they decide to come together because of this and play to their talent level so that Joel can come back?

Only time will tell.

@HighEliteMajor Great post HEM!!

Thanks for not being negative.

Right now, the team just has to think "win two games".

They have to have their absolute best focus for two games in order to get Joel back. They need to focus on winning and not be all negative like most posters over on KU Sports. Pretty pathetic over there.

Man, I sure hope the team isn't letting Joel's injury get to them like the posters on KU Sports. Whoooooooaaa!!

Don't they realize how much motivation there can be from this? The team can be positive and think "All we have to do is win two games in the tournament and we can get Joel back" (assuming there are no complications of course).

I am not sure that the posters understand how good this team can be when they are really motivated and are up for a game. If they had their way, they would have KU forfeit their spot in the tournament because "they're not going to make it out of the 3rd round".

Bunch of negative Neds over there.

@justanotherfan The frustrating part of it is that we know that they can and we have seen them do it at times. The question is why don't they do it all the time? What gets them motivated to do it? That is the question I want answered.

We don't need different players to get the job done when you have guys that can already do it. They need to put themselves in the mental state that they were in when they played Texas in the tournament.

@drgnslayr Just curious did HCBS ever mention that he amps or doesn't amp depending on the situation or is it speculation?

@globaljaybird Could be.

All I am pointing out is a simple observation that their level of defense and guard play is directly dependent on their intensity level. This has been true the entire time Bill Self has been here.

Good post Moonwalk.

There have been a couple times this year when they did press, but it has not been done regularly. Could it be that Self is saving a strategy to deal with a hot shooting team until the tournament? I find it hard to believe that Self doesn't know what to do to deal with a hot shooting team.

I will disagree with your statement about not having the personnel to play man to man defense the way Self teaches it. They have shown at times to be able to do it. The problem is that they do not do it on a consistent basis.

@drgnslayr I think that the team really took Self's words to heart about there being three seasons. They already won the second season so why try. I hope that's the case.

@globaljaybird This team's problem is not weak guard play, poor defense, or whatever else that has been discussed.

It is their lack of intensity and energy that has caused them to lose games. If you think that Nadiir was playing with full intensity yesterday, watch the game against Texas and Oklahoma.

The only reason why they would lose before the Final Four is playing unfocused and sloppy.

@drgnslayr The other day I was going through some old articles from 2010 and 2011 when KU lost early in the tournament. The majority of the posters felt that the losses were a result of not getting up to play.

Ask yourself this question: How many times in 2010 and 2011 did those teams get up to play? I'll answer that for you: very few. And I'm not talking about playing well against St. Mary's school for the poor. I'm talking about playing with full intensity and effort against Big 12 schools. Playing well is different than winning.

This year's team seems to be much worse at only getting up to play.

The doom and gloom crowd was out in full force today on KU Sports live blog. What they don't understand is that when this team plays with intensity, all of those "deficiencies" seem to be nonexistent. How do you explain that? Simple: effort.

So to answer your question drgnslayr, is this team ready for Self ball? Yes. No doubt about it. But I would much rather have this team stay under the radar as much as possible and not have pressure going into the tournament.

To put this into the proper perspective, look at Michigan at the end of last season. They had several losses in February and March, including getting blown out at Michigan St. by 22, losing at Penn State who was terrible, and losing in the Big Ten tournament. Very few people picked them to go to Atlanta. Yet they stayed under the radar, regrouped, and made it to the championship game.

This is what I hope for this year's team. The 2010 and 2011 teams did not have the luxury of going under the radar, similar to the championship team and the 2012 teams. They were expected to go the final four and win the championship.

And no, I am not trying to be "optimistic" or "positive" as some would assert. I am making basic observations based upon the success of other teams that have made it to the final four in the past several years that have had the same scenario happen to them as Michigan last year, such as Michigan State in '10, Kentucky in '11, KU in '12, and Michigan and Syracuse last year.

@HighEliteMajor Good observations.

As I have said time and time again, it is low effort that keeps Tharpe from being a good defender.

For a team that has trouble focusing normally, it doesnt help when you have already won the conference outright. However, that should be no reason to not have intensity defensively.

I agree with you HEM - I do not want this team to get a 1 seed. Its too much pressure and this team needs to stay hungry. My hope is that they have been looking towards the tournament and that is why they havent playing well. I can only hope that is the case.

And yes, Wiggins was Carmelo today. 41 points, 8 rebounds, 5 blocks, 4 steals. That is what everyone has been waiting for.

@drgnslayr I feel as though this year's team does not consistently bring the intensity that they should (which of course has been widely discussed), though games like last night, Texas, and the first half against OSU at Allen Fieldhouse have been exceptions.

I mentioned in an earlier post that Perry needs to become a stretch four instead just staying inside and getting his shot blocked. The past couple games he has been doing that and having success. Did he even miss an outside shot against Tech?

While the Morris twins were better down low than Perry, he has just as good of an outside shot as them, if not better. Perry getting involved in the game and using his perimeter shot will be vital to us making a deep run this year.

Last night, Nadiir had the look of someone that was on a mission. He had the look of a veteran point guard that knows that this is March and its showtime. That is the look I want him to have from here on out.

@drgnslayr Yes I believe Michigan State was in 2000. They also won the championship that year.

@jaybate 1.0 Swish!

Spot on Jaybate. Its all about finding your groove IN MARCH, not December or January. That's why I'm glad KU has already suffered losses early in the season while other teams haven't. Their weaknesses have already been determined and they know what to correct and improve on.

As you said jb, once The Designer gets out his slump, look out! I was glad that against OSU on Saturday he decided to go to his mid range game since he has been getting his shot blocked in the post. He needs to go to it even more to stretch the defense out. Another thing that would really help him is to use the shot fake. I don't remember a time this year when he's used it.

@drgnslayr Correct. Kentucky's main weapon was the Unibrow, but he also had Gilchrist, Jones, Teague, and Miller to help him out. This year, Embiid has Wiggins, Selden, Tharpe(when is actually focused on the game), Ellis, Black, Mason, and Traylor as his supporting cast.

I agree with everyone on here: Self needs to sit Embiid until the tournament. They are already a guaranteed 2 or 3 seed, so no need to risk an further injury.

What the rest of the team needs to do during this time that Embiid is out is to realize that the tournament is almost here and now is the time to really focus(Tharpe I'm talking to you!).

A focused team plus a healthy Embiid = great shot at a final four.

@justanotherfan Have you ever seen an opposing team cut the nets down on the home court of the team they're playing? Yeah, me neither.

Case in point, Smart knew that wouldn't happen.

@Crimsonorblue22 There are many times where KU plays uninspired basketball and still wins because of their talent level.

This isnt about amount of victories or conference championships.

This is about Self motivating his team when it matters most.

Unfortunately, Self has only gotten the job done twice. That is not good enough with all the talented teams that he has had.

@Crimsonorblue22 I never said I liked it or I thought what Marshall does is the best.

My point is that Self's teams have had a history of not coming to play.

Trust me Crimson, I am a fan of Wichita States's team, not Marshall. He makes too many comments about other teams, in my opinion. However, you cant deny that he knows how to motivate his team.

@drgnslayr I have heard Self say several times before playing various teams (couldnt tell you which ones) that they wouldnt use something for motivation when the media has asked him about it.

I think that not instilling motivation in his players is Bill Self's greatest weakness, while it is Greg Marshall's greatest strength.

You are right - Self is too sensible in his approach to a game, and is why they fell short two straight years in '10 and '11, both of which were arguably the best teams that year.

We can only hope that Self figures something out on how to motivate his team for later this month.

@drgnslayr Exactly! I have been saying for weeks that they need some more losses to help them get that chip on their shoulder. I felt like they didnt have enough losses in '10 and '11 and felt like they could just show up and win. I am fine if that would be the case. That is why I do not want them to get a 1 seed, because they might get a sense of entitlement as a result of it.

They need to stay a little under the radar and get motivated to play like what they did against Texas.

@drgnslayr Getting up to play has been a problem since Bill Self got here. Lets hope that this team has a sense of urgency in the tournament.

@drgnslayr Hopefully that will be the case again and he will be motivated to take his team to Dallas.

@drgnslayr Hopefully we got a bad game out of the way before the tournament:)

@drgnslayr That goes back to my first question of what Self is telling his players. I always worry about an early exit and am very worried that it could happen this year. I think that we have to look at yesterday's game with a grain of salt. I am with others in regards to the opinion that Self does not give his best effort against his alma mater. It is certainly a possibility.

You are right about Tharpe. He just needs to be solid and not make the mistakes he made last night. If he just does his job and doesnt try to be the hero, then we'll be in good shape to get to Dallas.

@drgnslayr You win as a team, and you lose as a team. Losses are NEVER on one person. Everyone contributed. That includes Bill Self and the coaching staff.

As I said earlier, you do with what you have, and having Tharpe with his head in the game and bringing good intensity and focus is good enough to get us to the Final Four, which would be a better result than in years past with very good teams.

Remember, there is a reason that people talk about getting hot in the tournament after having some struggles.

I want people on here to think things for the right reasons and see things for how they really are. For example, could we have a better point guard? Yes. However, we must further analyze Tharpes weaknesses to see what might cost us getting to Dallas. To me, his biggest weakness is being careless and not focusing. When Tharpe has focused and has not turned the ball over, isnt that good enough to at least get us to the Final Four? Of course it is!

It is not too much to expect your point guard to not be careless and not turn the ball over. If all Tharpe did was play good defense, move the ball well, set the pace, and not turn it over, it would be a good game.

Drgnslary you bring up a good point about this team not having a chip on its shoulder. However, the only teams we have had in the Bill Self era that have had a chip on their shoulder are the 12 and 08 teams.

You also make a point about how much better they would be if they had a better point guard. In my opinion, we do not need a different point guard. What we NEED is for coach Self to get Tharpe playing at the right level, which means not turning it over like last night. That is the job of the coach.

Also, I am not hoping and dreaming for Tharpe to mature or whatever else before the tournament. What I am hoping for is that he FOCUSES on fundamental and basic aspects of being the point guard, which is not turning the ball over, making shots when the team needs points, getting out and running(which I have seen him do numerous times despite what others say), and finding open teammates.

If they dont make it to the Final Four, it will be because Tharpe doesnt play SMART, not because he is incapable as some make him out to be. He is inconsistent, not incapable. What I hope for is Self taking charge of the team and getting the team and Tharpe ready to make a run in March.

HEM To me, it seems as though one minute he plays great and the other he doesnt. A lot of what we do here is speculation. For example, we dont know how far the team will go in the tournament, if they will get hot and peak in late March, if they will bring their full intensity to the games, or whether or not Tharpe will not turn the ball over. We dont know any of those things.

Sometimes I wonder what Self tells his players when they are turning the ball over repeatedly like last night. I wonder what he tells Tharpe when he jacks up a three point shot early in the shot clock.

All of Tharpes mistakes(yes all of them) are very basic and correctable. For example, when he passed the ball to the other side of the court to Selden who then threw it back to him when he wasnt looking. To me, that says that he didnt have his head in the game.

To me, Tharpe having his head in the game and really focusing will determine how far we go. And dont get me started on this Jaquin Lyle stuff. We have the tools NOW to at least get to the Final Four, which I would be elated if they just did that. My point is that people are always so unhappy with what we have and want something else and they dont realize that what they have is in fact good enough. We know that every single one of KUs turnovers last night were unforced and the result of carelessness. OSU did not force a single KU turnover. If the team isnt carless with the ball the whole game, they win.

To me, we need COACH SELF to be the leader of the team. Yes, Tharpe should set the tone and be the floor general. I get that. But Self is the coach, not Tharpe, and has to help the team when they are struggling to not turn it over. That is all Self's responsibility.

It is possible for this team to make it to the Final Four, which considering how young this team is would be an incredible accomplishment. Its possible that this loss will help them be smarter with the ball and help motivate them to play better. Remember, the 08 team's three conference losses were the same as this year: at Texas, at Kansas State, and at Oklahoma State.

I dont know Jaybate their perimeter defense, except for the last few minutes, looked pretty good last night. Hopefully he will get well and be ready to go for the tournament.

Personally, I dont want them to have a 1 seed. Its too much pressure, and has only benefited KU one time. Hopefully the team will learn from this game and be more motivated to not let something like this happen in the tournament.

@icthawkfan316 It is his inconsistency that is frustrating, not that he is not good enough. He knows how to handle a trap better than what he did last night. However, dont act like Tharpe single handedly cost them the game. 22 turnovers cost them the game, and almost everyone contributed to that. They had a chance to close out the game when they were up 10, but they had too many stupid turnovers and bad shots and therefore squandered the lead.