@drgnslayr "Maybe we could call in on one of those shows! I'd do it! And I wouldn't ask the question in an easy fashion... I would point out the lack of all these basics all year and make him account for those facts first. Then... pursue having him put it in place from here on out."
As everyone knows, Self is by no means a perfect coach and has his weaknesses. It might take something like this to get him to examine how he coaches and what he could do better.
@drgnslayr You should definitely call in! Self needs to teach his players this!
Isn't his talk show Hawk Talk? I dont know when its on or the phone number or anything but I'll try to find it.
@drgnslayr You'd think that the coaching staff would be telling them those things, but apparently not. Just a couple of small things that they could do would make a HUGE difference! Why can't they even figure it out themselves?
I think this is a very important question.
Maybe you and I should ask Self if we could spend an afternoon in the gym with the guys and teach them how to have an effective ball and shot fake! They probably leave about 10 points a game on the floor by not using simple fakes.
@JayHawkFanToo What is the Vegas line?
@drgnslayr Self made some positive comments about the possible return of Embiid during the tournament.
"We're preparing like we won't have him, and then when he comes back, it'll just be a bonus. But it is a little different. It kind of leaves your kids in limbo a little bit obviously. Even though you turn on ESPN the talk is, 'Joel Embiid this and that and Kansas, their hopes depend on this,' we've kind of used that as a rallying cry with our guys."
That has to be their motivation to advance farther in March. They need him if they are going to go to the Final Four.
@drgnslayr Yep. They would definitely get a ton of open three looks with Wiggins driving the lane and Ellis at the foul line to collapse the zone. They would also be coming off four or five days worth of rest (if they win this weekend, of course), so hopefully they would have a shooting performance similar to the one against OSU. But in order to beat Syracuse, and really anyone in the tournament, Perry HAS to be aggressive and take open jumpers and use a SHOT FAKE. Why does he never use it when he's in the post?
@JayhawkRock78 Its funny that Mizzery people think that they had a good hire in Frank Haith. If anything, they hired down from Mike Anderson.
What have they accomplished since Haith got there? Well, this year they're in the Not Invited Tournament and two years ago were one of the few 2 seeds to lose to a 15 seed.
Great hire (sarcasm).
@drgnslayr I find it funny that the national media has convinced themselves that KU doesnt have any three point shooters. Tharpe. Selden, and Wiggins have shown that they are capable of shooting it pretty well from three, though I think Tharpe is the best.
If they advance far enough to play Syracuse, I think the media is going to be surprised at how they attack the zone and how well Tharpe can shoot.
@drgnslayr I agree.
My point was that Tharpe should be listening to the doubters that are not holding back in their opinions.
@drgnslayr Something else that could be used as motivation is what Seth Greenberg said the other night on Bracketology. They were discussing a possible Sweet Sixteen matchup with Kansas and Syracuse and Seth said that the Syracuse zone "eats them and spits them out" in reference to shorter guards.
I hope Nadiir is listening because there are plenty of people doubting him.
@jaybate 1.0 Thanks for answering a very tough question. I have always been fascinated with comparing modern teams with teams from past decades.
I have to admit, a modern version of Bill Russell's teams or the great UCLA teams would definitely mop the floor with any team today. They would make them look like high school teams.
That's what I have been thinking JB.
To take this a step further, where do you think the '08 team stands historically? Top 10 all time? Top 15?
It seems that whenever this topic is discussed, most analysts consistently overlook the '08 team.
Florida back to back years, North Carolina in '09, and Kentucky in '12 are the ones that are mostly thought to be the best.
They never talk about how in '07 KU beat Florida and demolished Carolina in '08.
After thinking about how the '12 KU team only lost to Kentucky by 7, I have a VERY hard time believing that Kentucky could take down the championship team.
In my opinion, the best two championship teams of the past 10 or so years are the '08 team and the '04 Connecticut team.
What do you guys think?
I was watching bracketology on ESPN and NONE of the analysts had KU going to the Elite Eight.
If Self is as good of a motivator as we think he is, he will use all of the doubt to motivate them, specifically Tharpe and Ellis. The Ellis we saw against ISU is the one we need in the tournament.
Thanks for the input everyone!
I have to admit I'm a little worried about a possible second (third) round matchup with New Mexico, and maybe a Sweet Sixteen matchup with Syracuse.
I'd hate to take stupid Michael's line but "I'm scared". :)
@JayHawkFanToo This is what people have to understand. KU had about 20 unforced turnovers and it looked like they put butter on the ball yet still lost by 6 at Florida. Like you said, no team is unbeatable, which includes Florida.
I think it is good for this team that there are so many people in the media, including the folks on KWCH Sports Sunday, that are doubting whether or not this team can beat UNM without Embiid.
The Sports Sunday people were on the verge of negative and COMPLETETLY discounted KU's chances to win.
Their projections were based solely off the game with Iowa State. Pretty annoying. I think they're a bunch of Wichita State homers.
So, what are your guy's thoughts? Will this help KU that everyone is writing them off?
Although it can not be proved, I think you are correct. Bill had to have thought about how his team would be affected by the extra game on Saturday, and how that would correlate to the tournament.
BTW, what do you think the strategy is for beating UNM without Embiid, assuming they both win?
@ralster I also think that the KU community is too hard on Tharpe in general. They complain about his playing even when in the Big 12 tournament he has 16 assists to just 4 turnovers. Then they complain about his shooting. I think his poor shooting is due to his dislocated finger, as he normally tries to get involved more in the offense than he did the last few games.
Lastly, they complain about how he's not being leader, ignoring the fact that in high school he led his team to a national championship. They also ignore the man who is getting paid a couple million a year to coach the team.
Case in point, the point guard cant make the other players play good defense. Yes, he can lead by example. But cant Embiid, or Wiggins, or Selden also lead by example with their good defense?
I personally am still not convinced that he is not leading the team, as others have said. I think that his finger is slowing him down.
I predict that Tharpe will come back better and more aggressive next week for the tournament and his good shooting returns as well.
@ralster That's why I have been saying that we need to not think that Tharpe is not fast enough or its his short legs. I've seen him push the ball and get fastbreak layups, so I know he can do it. I've also seen him play intense defense on the perimeter, so I know he can do it.
I prefer to say that he "doesn't" play fast rather than he "can't". because we have seen him do it.
Another frustrating aspect of the Iowa State loss is that now there is an article on ESPN about how vulnerable KU is without Embiid.
What they don't mention is the circumstances and that they are likely to have him back by the second weekend.
Iowa State is not a good matchup especially without Embiid.
They weren't saying that after they beat OSU the day before.
@drgnslayr He's been pretty good this year from three, but I think his dislocated finger has been bothering him.
I still don't think their loss is going to be due to a lack of a good point guard. I believe Tharpe has some leadership skills. But leadership skills do not, I repeat do not lead to good team play. Tharpe CAN NOT make the rest of the team play well.
Everyone has to put forth their own best individual effort.
I liked the way they played against OSU. Now, Tharpe just needs to get his trey gun going to really open the lane up for the bigs and Wiggins/Selden.
Again, I think that the current roster is good enough to get to the final four. I have no reason to think that if they bring their best effort that they don't have a chance of making a deep run.
@HighEliteMajor The only problem with your argument is that they are capable of playing top notch defense as evidenced by the OSU game on Thursday. They have also improved to 28th nationally in defensive efficiency.
I don't like the talk about winning a championship with offense. You have to have intensity on both sides of the court. I believe they have the ability to do this.
@MoonwalkMafia Great point about the Big 12. With Ohio State losing to Nebraska, and being down by as many as 20, Villanova losing to Seton Hall, and being down by double digits, and Michigan scraping by Illinois, nobody can refute the fact that the Big 12 is the best conference.
I have a feeling that the extra rest will benefit them. I would be elated if they got to the Final Four, as there have been many years where they had the best team and didn't make it that far.
@globaljaybird That was a team that really benefited from the extra day of rest because of their short bench.
Its tough to play your best two days in a row against teams as good as OSU and ISU.
Like JB said, that wont happen in the tournament. If anything, it will be easier in the first couple rounds. They still have to play their butts off though.
One of your best posts yet, JB.
They played their butts off to beat OSU. And I'm glad they beat Smart. Cant stand that guy.
You are spot on; they need this rest time to recover and scheme for the tournament.
I have been wondering for a while if Tharpe's finger was affecting him. I personally think it is, and the extra day would do wonders for him.
Good to see them climbing the rankings defensively. They looked sharp and on their toes during the OSU game which should give them some confidence.
@Hawk8086 Well said.
There are low odds that there will be a team as good as Iowa State until the Sweet Sixteen, and if there are upsets, not until the Elite Eight.
And they wont have to play two teams with top ten talent two days in a row. That does help.
@Crimsonorblue22 I know what you're saying.
Instead of posting ideas on how to correct problems and identify solutions, they ramble on about the certainty that negative outcomes will occur rather than the possibility of positive outcomes.
@Crimsonorblue22 Thank goodness no. Can't stand being around negative people.
@Crimsonorblue22 Maybe he's starting to realize that.
I liked what Ellis said in the locker room to the team about their defense being unacceptable. Maybe this game will teach them to take the defense up a notch in order to pursue their post season goals.
It says something about the situation when Perry Ellis is speaking up about what needs to be done.
@Crimsonorblue22 Not trying to make excuses for their performance, but it is a possibility. They played extremely hard yesterday to beat OSU and I think it drained them a little bit.
@wissoxfan83 I agree with what your saying wissox. They may end up with a two seed, but that doesn't matter if they don't bring it every single game.
The thing about it, that's the concern I've had every year. They didn't bring it in 2010 or 2011 and lost. The Michigan was a different deal. But they simply did not show up for the games against VCU and Northern Iowa (sorry to bring those up again).
We'll just have to see what happens in the tournament and hope that they play with a sense of urgency.
@drgnslayr I said in an earlier post that the team looked tired and did not have the same energy as it did yesterday.
Self said in an interview that it was fatigue that contributed to the loss, and that it affects a team's defense more than offense. After playing with great effort defensively yesterday, including Selden chasing Smart the whole game, it would not surprise me if this is the case.
Like I said, the first two games in the tournament are not going to be this tough. I would be very surprised if in the first two rounds they played two teams the caliber of Okie State and ISU.
Just trying to be positive after the loss. :)
@jaybate 1.0 I had considered that they did not have the energy needed to really guard ISU effectively tonight. They looked slow in general and Iowa State was a step ahead.
I'm with you on wondering why Self didn't do anything to try to stop Niang. Could it be that he wanted Traylor and Black to get better at one on one post defending? Doesn't seem like a very good idea if that is what he was thinking.
@JRyman Yes, KU could have done some things better, but that is something to think. How many teams are there that can shoot like Iowa State and drive it if you come out and guard them? Maybe Creighton?
That's why everyone needs to not be so negative about this game. They were 11-16 behind the arc. That type of shooting is something you only see a couple times a year in a major conference.
@JRyman The difference between this KU team and others is not necessarily that they are not capable of playing comparable defense, but rather the ability to play defense consistently. That is why one moment they are playing great defense and the next, well, not so much.
@JRyman Consistent defense has been the problem all year. And Iowa State is definitely a game where you have to bring 110% effort on defense. I'd say they only brought about 70%. That doesn't cut it.
@drgnslayr The thing about last year's game with Michigan is that they were a couple brain farts away from winning that game.
I agree with you about Nadiir to an extent. I think Nadiir's problem is that he isn't shooting well and therefore is shying away from leading.
Nadiir's ability to lead does not make Jamari and Tarik guard Niang better, nor does it help the rest of the guys guard the perimeter better.
Hopefully his poor shooting is causing his drop in confidence and he will heat up in the tournament.
@icthawkfan316 Exactly. A bunch of things went their way.
I agree that Nadiir should have done more. It doesn't help his confidence that he cant make a shot. That may very well be the problem. It would be nice to see him more aggressive driving the lane.
@approxinfinity There appeared to be very little energy on the defensive end that was there yesterday. Not sure why.
@Crimsonorblue22 Yeah, I'm going to stop reading that stuff over there. Really drives me nuts.
@icthawkfan316 I know. Its funny when they say one moment (like yesterday) that they play good defense, then today they say they're the worst defensive team ever!
I prefer the intellectual and adult conversations over here.
@Hawk8086 Yep. That was the problem all night. They did not appear to have as much energy as they did against OSU.
This does not mean that they are a bad defensive team. They are an inconsistent defensive.
Not sure why I even read the posts on KU Sports. Pretty much a bunch of morons over there.
I have to admit, I agree somewhat with the Debbie downers over on KU Sports that not having Embiid hurt us in this game. Niang wouldn't have been able to do half the things he did with him in there.
That said, Black and Traylor did not play good post defense at all. Therefore, Niang did whatever he wanted.
There seemed to be an overall lack of energy, and Iowa State seemed faster to the ball than KU did.
It would have been nice if Wiggins was more aggressive in the first half, but that didn't cost them the game.
What cost them the game was poor post defense and not mentally committed to defending the drive. When they did get out and guard the perimeter, Iowa State just threw it into Niang and he scored.
Yes, KU probably would have won with Embiid. However, this is no substitute for defensive intensity, something that they had against Okie State but did not have tonight.
Does losing this game mean that they wont make it to the final four? Not at all. There are very few teams that are as bad of a matchup as Iowa State is. Also, in the tournament, you don't have to play two days in a row.
If they can get by the first two rounds and get Embiid back for the Sweet Sixteen, they should be in pretty good shape to get to Jerry's World.
I thought the defense was astronomically better than it was against WVU. That game was just an anomaly, IMO.
I thought for the most part that Tharpe played pretty well and had 7 assists to 2 turnovers and played good defense. He just needs to knock down a few shots that he normally makes.
Wiggins was great once again. He has finally figured out how to look for his shot and be a team player.
One of these days, Ellis is going to get out of his slump. His problem is that he forces the issue too much and drives right into traffic. He needs to use the shot fake more and utilize his good perimeter shot to his advantage.
Black and Traylor did a great job of rebounding and playing good defense while warding off foul trouble in the second half. I knew Black could play 26 minutes while not fouling out.
For the game tonight, they have to do what they did against OSU. Guard the crap out of the perimeter, dont foul when they drive, and dont turn it over. If they do those, they'll be in good shape for a W.
@Virgil_Caine Im down with that.
Perhaps we'll see Self try something like that in the postseason to confuse the opposition, as he normally does not do that.
Everyone has to. No one can take a day off or not give their full effort.
As I said before, today will tell a lot about this team's mindset for the post season.
Its not how you start, but how you finish that will be remembered.
@JRyman LOL. Funniest post of the month!
@HighEliteMajor So you would rather have a 1 seed and be in the media spotlight and everyone gunning for you?
A 1 seed has only helped KU once. It didnt help in 2013, 2011, 2010 or 2007.
With Bill Self's teams, it seems as though they play better with a lower seed and a chip on their shoulder.