I commented before reading the article in LJW. While this doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of who starts when the games are real....it is one early indicator of who gets minutes....Self said it directly.
Many of us, me included had assumed that Svi was the odd man out on the perimeter. Now it looks like Greene, for the moment, is the 5th perimeter guy....that guy typically hasn't gotten many minutes. Maybe Self will have a true 9 man rotation. But it seems like the 9th guy doesn't get a lot of minutes. Using Oubre or Selden as a 4 also throws a wrench in the works. Also.......the status of guys can change during the year. But for now.....Greene's minutes appear to be in trouble.
Hawk8086
2456 posts
Could be a lot of reasons why he is starting. Self had said not to read anything in to who was starting the first Exhibition.....or something to that effect. Could be almost random. But, I would vote for a) keeping everyone guessing....and motivated and b)truly seeing how the kid responds.
I can't see Oubre not getting a lot of minutes this season. He won't be given the leeway that AW was last year, but he will be forgiven for mistakes more than others (typical for a McDonald's guy).
@Statmachine I think it is hard to predict that we will beat UK. They have so much talent....and some experience coming back. This early in the season neither coach really knows what they are going to get out of their team......most teams are sloppy. So, anything can happen...but I see them beating us in a somewhat close game.
@HighEliteMajor
I agree with your comments on rotation minutes and who likely gets them.
But, I didn't sense that Self was pleased. I thought he sounded disappointed. I found his chemistry comment a bit odd. Self (and all of us) realize that a kid needs to do what is best for him. In a perfect world, Self would probably like to have a guy like Connor to play whatever minutes he earns and develop as a 4 or 5 year guy. It just doesn't happen as much anymore in today's world.
I'll say much tougher defensively on the perimeter. Will remind us more of the 2008 (OK probably the 2007) team. Well balanced. Ellis, Selden, and maybe Oubre the leading scorers. We'll be hurt more by teams with good big men than we are used to. Tied for first in the conference. Feels like an elite 8 team. Maybe better if everything comes together. I don't see 10 losses.
Always interesting to read Self's comments after practice starts and it is fun to try and read between the lines. Everyone has done a good job. I won't even try.
I will say that he often makes comments similar to the one he made about Graham starting by mid-season and it often does not materialize. Obviously, part of his comments are meant to motivate players in a certain way. I think, as many have said, that Svi and either CF or Greene will be the odd men out on the perimeter.
Self
Kruger
Hoiberg
Huggins
Smith
Barnes
Weber
Johnson
Ford
Drew
I actually think Weber is not that bad, but he needs to be able to recruit. I have a tough time with Smith, because I'm not sure what he has accomplished other than the NC (no small feat). Barnes' teams seem to underperform too often. I don't see what Johnson has accomplished.
Drew-can only recruit.
I interpreted most of Self's comments the same way that you did. Mason is the odds on favorite to be starting PG, Greene needs to work on defense or Oubre will start / get more playing time. I would like to add that I have heard Self make statements in the past about players being in the mix for major minutes only to have the playing time not pan out as you would think based on his comments. Graham might be an example of this. Self wants him to be in the mix for major minutes, but when the games start and he makes a few mistakes......Self doesn't trust him enough to give him much playing time.
It looks like his game is pretty developed. He can shoot. Could he end up being a OAD, after all?
Beddie,
I like your projected PPG predictions. I might move Oubre and Greene a little closer together.....but who knows.
- No, Selden will not get that many. He will get a lot though.
2.PG will probably not take a lot of shots. 7-8?
3.Perry most likely will be our leading scorer. - Alexander will have the highest scoring avg. from the "5"
- Anyone's guess.....I'll go with Oubre.
6.N/A. I don't think Svi plays very much.
I would think that we get one of the big guys. Even if it is unclear whether Alexander will be back......Self can sell that we need an impact true 5.
We can't really tell, but my guess is Mickelson plays over Lucas. I think his experience at Arkansas and his ability to shoot the ball will earn him PT.
@HighEliteMajor HEM, you make a good point about the post play. Defensively, I am concerned. Cliff is inexperienced and Perry has not been a good defensive player. We don't have the tall rim protector we have had the last several years.
This means we will have to be better defensively on the perimeter. We will, of course, but will that be enough to offset the interior defensive dropoff?
Will be interesting to see.
Also, how will Cliff's offensive game develop?
Oh, I'm excited....just like I am every year. I think a lot of us (well, me anyway) might be apprehensive after last year as we saw the effects of our inexperience (and Tharpe's disappointing season). While we are more experienced that last year, we will still rely on young players. I have high hopes, of course.
Remains to be seen if Self ends up with 9 in the rotation. I can see the 8th and 9th guy getting only a few minutes per game.
Great topic.
Like others, I believe we will have several guys that will improve significantly. Mason, CF, Greene. I'll go with Selden as the most improved. It appears he was injured more than we thought last year. Now that it appears that he is healthy, I think he and Perry will be our go to guys.
@HighEliteMajor I don't think there is much of a chance of Mickelson playing more than Traylor. Year after year, we see that time in the program means a lot when it comes to playing time. Also, Self trusts the guys that have a track record of performing in games over those that don't. I thought Mickelson did look very active during the parts of the video that I viewed. But.... you can't take too much from these scrimmages. We've seen that performances in scrimmages don't necessarily translate to minutes when the games are for real.
I guess my eyes are worse than I thought...I sometimes had a hard time figuring out who was who on those videos.
@jaybate 1.0 Interesting observation about Minnesota and Love.
I'll be curious to see if you are right.
If you are Minnesota, how do you trade Love without getting Wiggins?
Great highlights. He'll be good, of course, But, it will be interesting to see how his offensive game develops. He does remind me of TRob in that respect. Powerful, relentless, with a raw offensive game.
@DoubleDD That was awesome! Thanks!
Thans!
@ralster I have felt that the Michigan loss was the toughest to take for the reasons you mentioned. As you said, we played like we all thought we should and had control of the game for 38 mins. Then blew it in the last 2 (or maybe 4 as you say).
Time will tell, but given how hard it is to advance in the tournament, to have control of virtually the entire game and them implode down the stretch......that loss will sting the longest for me, I believe.
@Crimsonorblue22 We always win....therefore we would always pick toward the end of the draft.
Agree! I had been on vacation, and off the grid. When I returned, and read the news about our team representing the USA next summer, I thought I was mis-reading the article at first.
The committee that picked us must really like our young talent (and Coach Self).
As we do.
Carter does sound like a good fit. Could slip in if Alexander leaves after one year. But we already have a crowded roster. We already have 12 guys that want playing time. Granted, you don't know who will be here after next season, so you have to keep em coming.
But it sure would be nice to have some scholarships available for the following year. I guess we will use those if someone does leave after next year.
I've been one of the ones who pointed out that Self, like most or all coaches, don't worry about playing time or having too many players. They recruit as many good players as they can get and don't worry about guys being troubled by a lack of playing time.
As a fan, I agree with the concern about playing time / development of players / transfer risk.
His actions (and maybe comments in the past...I think) would seem to indicate that Self doesn't worry about that at all. He, like all coaches, recruits the very best players that he can......and as many as he can get. He figures the playing time will work itself out.
@HighEliteMajor Excellent points. What we don't know is how those guys performed in practice.
Presumably, Greene outplayed White in practice which was the basis, in addition to Greene's higher upside, for Greene getting the minutes (which weren't much).
Yes, not shocking. Although I thought that he might stay as time marched on after the season and nothing had been announced.
As many have suggested......probably the best move for Andrew.
I find it interesting that he said that Self said it would be doubtful that he would break into the rotation.
You don't often hear those specifics.
Thanks to all for your comments. Always interesting to see what people think.
A fair amount of debate between CF / Mason / Greene.
Gee...similar to last year at this time.
@REHawk That's funny!
@HighEliteMajor You are probably right.
I would rather he award it to one of the walk-ons for one year (if that is kosher) and then use it on a recruit for the next year. Depending on who goes (Selden?Alexander?Oubre?, no one?) we may need it to keep impact players in the pipeline.
Some have made comments, but let's make predictions.
Given Self's history and comments that he ideally likes to have 4 big guys and 5 guards / wings, you have to limit your rotation to 8 or 9 guys.
(Of course, I 'm sure tomorrow's headline will be "Self says rotation could include 10 guys this fall")
Here's mine:
Mason
Selden
Oubre
Ellis
Alexander
Off the bench:
Graham
Greene
Traylor
Mickelson
Going with Oubre over Greene flies in the face of history giving the advantage to the more experienced guy, but I'm going with Oubre's aggressiveness. Either way, I think they both are in the rotation. I'm giving Mason the edge over Graham based on experience. Likewise Mickelson (based on PT at Arkansas) over Lucas.
This leaves CF with the meager 10th man minutes and Lucas with mop up minutes (or foul trouble minutes) up front. I think both of these guys will be significant contributors...just not yet.
@Statmachine That stat makes sense. All the more reason why our best chance for another NC could be 15-16, depending on who leaves after this coming season.
@joeloveshawks We have the same logjam for minutes at the 1-3 as we did last year. Substitute Oubre for Wiggins and Graham for Tharpe. The one difference is that Oubre (or anyone else) will probably not command the 38 minutes or so that Wiggins automatically got.
Still at least 2 guys among the 7 vying for playing time will probably be the odd men out.
@Crimsonorblue22 Yes. But that is six guys playing 3 positions.
I don't think that is going to happen.
@Crimsonorblue22 But that is 4 guys playing. Add Greene and Oubre and you have 6 guards / wings. Though I 'd like to see it, I can't see all of those guys playing based on Self's history.
Am I the only one but does this seem a little said?
Nadir announces he's leaving and then right away Graham commits.
Out with the old and in with the new. Amateur sports is a tough business.
I know that it is all probably for the best.....but I thought that Tharpe would have a chance to redeem himself.
@icthawkfan316 You're right. That is the question. My guess is one starts at the point, one backs the other up and the 3rd has a hard time seeing much pt.
Same as this past year. Greene and Oubre will both likely get pt and we know that Selden will start. Somebody will be the odd man out. Same thing up front between Mickelson and Lucas. One is the 4th big guy and the other has a hard time seeing the court.
Unable to make the correction. I meant Selden will start.
@truehawk93 Hard to tell about PG, but I have to agree with you.
Selden
I say Oubre will start......I always wonder if being a McDonald's AA gives a guy a leg up politically. I know that flies in the face of the best guy plays. I also realize many McD's have not started (like Ellis). Greene will get minutes either starting or off the bench. You are right, though, typically the more experienced guy has a leg up and starts. No telling how CF works in.
Again, somebody in the backcourt will not get many minutes. Pretty crowded.
I think Alexander is almost a lock to start.
Jamari rotates in. The other big man minutes go to either Lucas or Mickelson.
- None. I don't want any B12 schools to win the NC. I like for B12 teams to do well in the tournament...up to a point. Elite 8 is good. I don't even want any others to go to the final four. Only us. I'm selfish in that regard.
- Probably KState. I want them to do well.....but not that well.
It would not surprise me if Tharpe had the senior season that we would all hope he would.
He has shown flashes of being the player that we need him to be.
Now, I'm not say that is going to happen.......I think it is more likely that Mason becomes the man at the 1 this year.
The signs appear to point to Texas. The "experts" (Espn, etc.) usually, not always, have it right.
The good thing is....we'll be fine either way.
@REHawk Perry will be in the lineup and will be one of our bigger contributors. Some have talked about him maybe not starting. I can't see that at all.
He is one of our more experienced players, and though he has weaknesses (defense, short for a post player) he is very quick for his size and has a great shooting touch.
He's a smart kid, a hard worker, and will get better.
He will be one of our main guys this year despite the low key demeanor that everyone talks about.
@Virgil_Caine I agree with you. Have to give Cal credit.
But that doesn't keep me from cringing when he makes those cheesy obvious statements such as:
"I have to go and be with my 5 first round draft picks" or
"I'm just concentrating on helping kids provide for their families."
@JayHawkFanToo Well, if that is correct that COULD mean that UT feels or has been told they are not likely to get Turner.
But, we don't know if they believe that someone will transfer.
Interesting, though.
The home state has an automatic advantage as long as they have a good program. Not great, but good. They do.
You never know how he feels about a 3 man rotation with Perry and Cliff.
We are BigMan U though....should mean a lot.
They all sting. But some of them, even though we had good teams, were out played by other good teams. Arizona, for instance. They beat 3 number 1s. During the tournament they were the best team. Certainly not all year, but during the tournament....they were.
VCU, sure, silver platter. But....we never even hinted that we were going to win that game. Outplayed from the jump.
Bradley.....that team was so young. Deer in the headlights. After that near halfcourt shot before halftime...we were done.
Michigan last year is the worst.....not because it is recent.
We played well and had the game in hand for 38 mins. All we had to do was not screw up and make free throws. Couldn't do either one.
We had the game and blew it in astounding fashion.
Having the game won and blowing it in the last 2mins. is just worse for me.
I need to stop talking about...I'm getting upset all over again.
@wissoxfan83 Very creative! I admire creativity since I have none.
Good stuff.
@HighEliteMajor Well, I guess I never thought about Lucas being a candidate for transfer. I always thought that he was a developmental guy....and viewed himself as such. Probably won't see significant playing time until Jr/Sr. year.
But, you are right.....he could decide that even the longer term outlook is not good for PT. Or, get impatient.